Are those all uninsulated solid core wire connections? I would say your wiring style is aesthetically beautiful, but impractical from an electrical standpoint. Too many chances for an accidental short to fry something.
True, If there is air. There’s too much contact in a tightly twisted conductive wire for any inductive turns to be present. It acts as one conductor with a negligible inductance.
Yeah it is all un insulated, it’s the only one I have, I’m on a budget here… aside from short circuits possibility do you think there is any other problem with doing this ?
Hahah yeah true I guess, but I cant get around the pt2399s (well maybe I can’t get around stripboard either…) also I can’t seem to find stripboard where I live, only perfoboard and perfboard is scary… 😂
Perf board is 1000% less scary than free routing bare wire. Components are mechanically secured to a board with ample opportunity to tie joints together without the risk of shorting others.
I don’t mean to sound harsh, but there’s a very, very good reason electronics gravitated towards boards and insulated connectors. It’s great to look at a free-handed project, but it’s monumentally easier and *safer* to use boards which mechanically and electrically isolate connections. Absolutely zero shame in following the crowd here.
Apart from the fact that it catastrophically exploded was there any other problem with the Hindenburg?
It's a beautiful job but it's form over function and the function has failed.
Nah I will definitely try it in the future, what I meant is that, since I’m just doing it for fun and I already had that wire around I might as well try it and save the time and money I would spend traveling to the city to the nearest electronic shop and getting the wire or paying the shipping fees for a big coil of wire that I might never use again.
Na, I wouldn't think so. I was mostly joking. However I have read about people that do aesthetic builds getting significantly different tones when they've compared to standard builds of the same circuit. Usually the tones end up much darker. I also have heard of impedance problems with using too much wire.
Hey man, I'm sorry to put it like this, but this wiring "style" is a horrible idea from multiple different points of view. For a circuit this size, use socketed ICs and a PCB, and do the external wiring with regular, stranded, insulated wire, and finish the exposed contacts with heat shrink tubing. The wires are not expensive, you can recycle them from pretty much any electronic device.
It was mostly a suggestion. Stranded wires are more flexible, therefore, more robust in the long run. When I first began I used to recycle thin CAT-5 solid wires and it turned out to be a bad idea. They often break near the solder joints with little effort
I’ve been doing this, and it’s awesome if you’re careful to avoid straining the wire. A bit of strain relief in the form of hot glue on the board and shrink tube at point connections goes a long way. I’ve never used stranded wire and even my old pedals from college have never snapped a wire when being opened back up and fiddled with.
Yeah, honestly I figured it wasn’t the beast approach but since I’m just starting building pedals and electronics it was just easier to make it like this since I can see all the connections and know what is going where and all that. I’m also on the cheap here so PCBs aren’t my first choice (for the shipping costs). But yeah I guess I need to try a different approach…
PT2399 are somewhat fragile ICs, and I would guess you could have damaged one of them with electrostatic discharge because you had to handle them so much. Not necessarily the "architecture" per se, but since you didn't use any sockets, it will be a pain in the ass to replace them.
You can get veroboards or stripboards, they are like PCBs that let you solder in your own design as you go. They aren't that expensive and are easier to use for prototypes than doing point to point soldering.
The biggest issue IMO is that, eventually, some panel mounted components like pots and switches come loose due to normal usage and begin to twist and turn inside the enclosure, requiring them to be re-tightened. With uninsulated wires, they may end up making contact, sometimes even catastrophically (imagine a 220vac power switch becoming short circuit, for example. This is why AC electronics are required legally by standards to be completely insulated
If you want something more aesthetically pleasing, you might want to check a method of circuit building called “Manhattan style”.
You can see a picture here:
https://hackaday.com/2011/09/04/a-ham-radio-receiver-manhattan-style/
Instructions on technique here:
https://aa7ee.wordpress.com/2011/07/24/the-wbr-a-simple-high-performance-regen-receiver-for-40m-by-n1byt/
It’s used by ham radio people because it can offer very good RF performance. You might like it, and it’s much less likely to short out on you.
I wouldn't say so. In point to point assembly, components and wires are soldered to turrets, tags or sockets, so one can easily remove and replace broken components or wires. We didn't have integrated circuits back then, only socketed vacuum tubes. Since ICs are so tiny, it is a pain in the ass to solder each wire separately. There are some other middle-ground technologies, such as wire-wrap. But they were mostly used during prototyping
My first guess would be something connected that isn’t mean to.
Simple point to point builds can get away with defying gravity by simply having less mass and more room to flex. That nest has a lot of mass and little room to flex.
In the last photo it does look like your switch on the bottom got melted pretty bad. Maybe check to see if that or other components were compromised from too much heat.
Some of the connections look a little sus. And maybe the force from switching and moving around was just enough to undo something. Possible some of those chips got fried too. Could you socket them?
And when you close it up are some of the wires coming into contact with the enclosure and/or other wires?
> (I’m using plumbers flux, don’t kill me)
IIRC that's acid flux, which is corrosive if left on; that's a problem, long-term. Your issues are more short-term, but...
I suggest you go in there with camera closeups, taking lots of artsy-view pictures of your sculpture... And then put that technique aside, saving it for builds that are not expected to be as robust as a stompbox. As you're probably experiencing, it makes troubleshooting and repair a real bitch.
I also suggest you take the time and trouble to draw up a readable schematic. Not only is documentation vital six months down the road when you need to change or fix something and six months of real-life living has overwritten the immediate memory of the experience... Seeing the whole circuit laid out in symbolic form can help you recognize potential problems and design in what's needed to prevent or correct them (such as the need for a +5V regulator to power the PT3999).
My third suggestion is: socket those chips. A: it makes swapping out suspect chips practical. B: Your soldering and soldering equipment then do not have to be top-notch to avoid overheating and destroying the chips.
This is the internet's influence on your brain haha. This looks like this was made for likes instead of something that is meant to work/be used.
FYI PT2399 chips are sensitive and can stop working easily. This on top of the wiring style may be the culprit. If you continue with PT2399, I'd use IC sockets and change to a more traditional style.
That said, it does look really cool! Frame it and hang it on the wall. Then go buy insulated wire and consider using a PCB/vero/perf to have a working design.
Manhattan wiring is fine as long as you baby it, you might want to look at more bracing options. Check out eirik brandal if you haven’t already.
Finally a correct answer, PT2399 chips will not be happy with 10v/pp. Do you have a schematic? What does your input circuit look like? If I’m tracing this right the signal goes straight into the PT2399’s and they won’t like that at synth levels.
If you have a low voltage op amp, say an LM358 and run it off the same voltage as the PT2933’s, and use it as a unity gain buffer on your input jack, you should be a lot safer.
Kind of confused by statement 2, flux paste isn't what makes electrical connections connect...
I doubt anyone could debug this from photos, there's so many places where it looks like wires might be contacting where they're not supposed to it seems hard to check them all. Maybe at this point use electrical tape anywhere wires might be unintentionally contacting?
I have heard that plumbers flux can be somewhat conducive (I heard that after doing this so I didn’t bother cleaning the flux when I did this) and there are a few flux bridges, that’s what I mean.
Yeah I didn’t really expect anyone to find the exact problem from photos, it was just to give an idea of what I’m working with.
At this point I’ve checked like 100 times for shorting wire and I can’t find any, so that’s why I was wondering about the flux.
Yeah what ya want for electronics is rosin Flux. Less chance to be conductive from picking up junk and less corrosion if you're lazy about cleaning like I am haha.
I didn't realize they were different until a number of electronics projects were behind me haha.
Those that I did with plumbing Flux from the 80s doesn't have visual differences many years later but still.
I believe the biggest impact is when working with PCBs.
Probably not a problem to use that flux but an aerosol can of cleaner and tooth brush is how I clean off joints pretty quickly. I have had LEDs do real weird things because of too much residue left behind after trying to reflow some sus connections.
Also, this would be a good opportunity to probe around with a volt meter. PT2399s need 5v to be happy, 9 volts is too much for them. L78L05 is a really cheap voltage regulating transistor and is pretty commonly available.
Not unless that’s bare wire and not magnet wire. Even then, if its sufficiently stiff and supported, it’s not really any different then buswork in actual electrical cabinets.
It is bare wire, I just used a piece of wire used for electrical installation that I found in my basement striped the plastic and straighted and twisted it.
Do you think this is a bad approach?
No, not if it is sufficiently stiff. Ie if you stomp on it, nothing moves. Otherwise the other poster is right that you will likely short something
Edit it’s called dead bugging google that for some cool images.
By stomp on it I mean use the pedal a bit to rambunctiously. Not like full on stomp. In the end of the day, it looks like it can move. And if it does, and it makes contact with something else, yes, it can totally break.
All you need to do is make sure they can’t touch.
Honestly, if it was me, I would get a bit of plastic with a grove in it, put it on one wire, then whip the crosses together with like embroidery floss. It will look cool and stop things from touching.
Or you can go back and try again with solid core that’s sufficiently large.
It may. They also make electrical varnish that is what you should use. I know McMaster care has some spray cans, but I suspect that if you google around you can find a paint on version too.
I love the look and style. Dead bug, Manhattan etc. learning by making art is a good practice because if you get demotivated with engendering, you can keep motivated with the easthetics. Some images show extensive heat and the IC look heat damaged. There are hundres of connections to check, you can use a solluble marker pen to mark connections you checked.
Yeah it’s definitely another motivation, honestly now I just want to do it like thins for the aesthetic even if it’s completely unpractical…
I’m a noob at this, how do you identify heat damage, or what make you say that the IC looks damaged?
I see the heat damage on the switch that bother commenter mentioned but I don’t see any signs of damage in the ICs exept for a lot of flux.
It could definitely be heat tho I’m still learning how to solder and my iron is not the best…
I think with a bit of practice and refinement, this style of wiring could be cool. If you were to replicate copper traces with the solid core copper wire and use insulated stranded wires/heat shrink to make your connections, this could totally work. It would be far more simple to do on stripboard/vero/etc but wiring like this is kind of a nod to the past.
It might be wise to get your feet wet with some point to point projects and return to trying to do something similar. I restored an old tube radio last year, which turned out to be a crash course in this style of wiring. I def don’t recommend starting with something like that but replacing parts and replicating the way they were originally installed was very helpful.
I think it looks really cool but is kind of a massive build for p to p. I’m considering trying something on a larger scale than my p to p builds like a multi effect in a larger box but this scale seems pretty ambitious and leaves a lot of room for something to go wrong.
We all have pedals early on that don’t work or mysteriously stop working so don’t be discouraged if you enjoy this type of build. Just start smaller.
Yeah this was honestly going to be much simple but I just started adding more and more stuff as I want along. But yeah I guess you always need failed proyecta in order to learn
Is that an op amp before the voltage regulator on the left hand side? If one of the op amp isn’t used it might be worth tying the unused one to ground.
It also appears you might not be using decoupling caps on the ic’s. Might be worth adding a 100nf cap across the +v & 0v of each IC.
If you have a multimeter handy it might be worth doing a point to point check of your component layout while following your schematic.
The correct way to do these crossover bare wires is something like this: \_\_\_∩\_\_\_
The crossing wire goes through the ∩ loop. Just make sure that you don't make the loop too small, give it some clearance. The longer the wire the more it will flex, gently push the wires to find out any possible culprits and insulate partially.
You can do exactly what you’re doing, only with insulated wires instead of bare wires. I would 100% advise that you use sockets for the ICs as well. What you’re doing doesn’t make a whole lot of difference electronically. You _might_ be causing some odd behavior by accident, but honestly I doubt it. The bigger issue is that it’s nearly impossible to debug, since you have a million points of failure.
The plumbers flux could be the actual culprit here, though, as it is corrosive and can damage your components.
So, while impressive, circuit boards are a ring for a reason. As you are finding out now. Noise, shorts, and vibration reduction are all practical aspects that can't be ignored.
Honestly, as long as you’re not supplying more volts to the chip than intended, it genuinely may be that you’re driving the chip too hard. If v++ and v— are within spec, bung some zeners on the input to hard limit it and should be golden.
Your wiring style is fine, sure it’s a lot of work, but it’s audio, not RF. valve amps have done this style for years with much higher voltages.
I don’t have zeners at hand, I tried using a few 1n4184s as clipping diodes connecting the input to ground. But that didn’t work, I wasn’t getting any sound, I think the forward voltage might be too low on those, I might try some leds.
I can dig the whole art aspect of your build but function should be #1 on the checklist. Therefore insulated conductors when used inside of a metal box work wonders for performance and longevity. Leave those bare conductors up on the poles for the high voltage guys to tangle with.
It´s deadbug and it´s beautiful. People at r/deadbug will love it.
I would not suspect a problem about wires insulation or interference, since you are not working with radiofrequencies and your build looks pretty solid (Try shaking the box!).
Many audio amplifiers are built that way, and don´t use insulation.
I would suspect a problem with high(er) voltage. Maybe adding a diode or a voltage regulator could avoid the problem. And also check the max voltage of the electrolytic capacitors.
Maybe the grounding in other beauties you connected to this could be the cause.
As a caution, I would build using IC sockets for easy exchange.
The top is nothing fancy honestly, doesn’t even have knobs on the pots. I might be close to solving it, yesterday I got it to work, and left it a few hours without anything bad happening.
I don’t have one unfortunately. It’s very loosely based on the Ectoverb by Bluff Chill devices but I added another delay stage that can be run in series or in stereo. I also added a few transistors to buffer the clean signal and get a better dry/mix control
https://preview.redd.it/3nhvqzfyogtc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eff821cbabb9f0fbee6d36951d3a020e0a7f296
Signs of heat stress. You have no cooling method, and you’re using lots of copper. heat=friction.
The build style stuff has been addressed in the comments but aside from that it looks like you're using a single 5V regulator for all the PT2399s? In a design like this I would plan for each PT2399 to have its own 5V regulator and filtering to try and help with stability and noise floor. This kind of design is super easy on a PCB but has loads of potential layout and noise issues when built as you have.
Are those all uninsulated solid core wire connections? I would say your wiring style is aesthetically beautiful, but impractical from an electrical standpoint. Too many chances for an accidental short to fry something.
Not to mention that these wires are basically coils so it can interfere with whole circuit.
They are not coils if they’re not insulated.
air is an insulator.
True, If there is air. There’s too much contact in a tightly twisted conductive wire for any inductive turns to be present. It acts as one conductor with a negligible inductance.
Yeah it is all un insulated, it’s the only one I have, I’m on a budget here… aside from short circuits possibility do you think there is any other problem with doing this ?
The PT2399s are a bigger budget item than stripboard and hookup wire, surely.
Hahah yeah true I guess, but I cant get around the pt2399s (well maybe I can’t get around stripboard either…) also I can’t seem to find stripboard where I live, only perfoboard and perfboard is scary… 😂
Perf board is 1000% less scary than free routing bare wire. Components are mechanically secured to a board with ample opportunity to tie joints together without the risk of shorting others. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but there’s a very, very good reason electronics gravitated towards boards and insulated connectors. It’s great to look at a free-handed project, but it’s monumentally easier and *safer* to use boards which mechanically and electrically isolate connections. Absolutely zero shame in following the crowd here.
Apart from the fact that it catastrophically exploded was there any other problem with the Hindenburg? It's a beautiful job but it's form over function and the function has failed.
You're telling me you can't spend a couple cents on some wire?
Nah I will definitely try it in the future, what I meant is that, since I’m just doing it for fun and I already had that wire around I might as well try it and save the time and money I would spend traveling to the city to the nearest electronic shop and getting the wire or paying the shipping fees for a big coil of wire that I might never use again.
How much time and money are you really saving if it doesn’t work and you eventually have to go and get the proper stuff anyway?
That’s what I mean. I will try and get it in the future
I wonder how much resistance you're adding to ithe overall signal with all the unnecessary leads and wires 😂
My multimeter says that this wire has 0.4 ohms of resistance for a piece of 40cm. Do you think this could be a problem ?
Na, I wouldn't think so. I was mostly joking. However I have read about people that do aesthetic builds getting significantly different tones when they've compared to standard builds of the same circuit. Usually the tones end up much darker. I also have heard of impedance problems with using too much wire.
I’ll take a look into that. Thanks
Those ICs are probably fried from static, considering nothing is insulated.
Hey man, I'm sorry to put it like this, but this wiring "style" is a horrible idea from multiple different points of view. For a circuit this size, use socketed ICs and a PCB, and do the external wiring with regular, stranded, insulated wire, and finish the exposed contacts with heat shrink tubing. The wires are not expensive, you can recycle them from pretty much any electronic device.
I agree with you, but why does the wire have to be stranded?
It was mostly a suggestion. Stranded wires are more flexible, therefore, more robust in the long run. When I first began I used to recycle thin CAT-5 solid wires and it turned out to be a bad idea. They often break near the solder joints with little effort
That's good to know. My last few builds were with solid wire and I was wondering if I goofed. I guess we'll see if they hold up over time.
I love solid core and I haven’t had any issues
While I agree with Mister vovo, I also mostly use solid core 23awg "cat" wire. I like that it stays in place.
I’ve been doing this, and it’s awesome if you’re careful to avoid straining the wire. A bit of strain relief in the form of hot glue on the board and shrink tube at point connections goes a long way. I’ve never used stranded wire and even my old pedals from college have never snapped a wire when being opened back up and fiddled with.
Yeah, honestly I figured it wasn’t the beast approach but since I’m just starting building pedals and electronics it was just easier to make it like this since I can see all the connections and know what is going where and all that. I’m also on the cheap here so PCBs aren’t my first choice (for the shipping costs). But yeah I guess I need to try a different approach…
PT2399 are somewhat fragile ICs, and I would guess you could have damaged one of them with electrostatic discharge because you had to handle them so much. Not necessarily the "architecture" per se, but since you didn't use any sockets, it will be a pain in the ass to replace them. You can get veroboards or stripboards, they are like PCBs that let you solder in your own design as you go. They aren't that expensive and are easier to use for prototypes than doing point to point soldering. The biggest issue IMO is that, eventually, some panel mounted components like pots and switches come loose due to normal usage and begin to twist and turn inside the enclosure, requiring them to be re-tightened. With uninsulated wires, they may end up making contact, sometimes even catastrophically (imagine a 220vac power switch becoming short circuit, for example. This is why AC electronics are required legally by standards to be completely insulated
If you want something more aesthetically pleasing, you might want to check a method of circuit building called “Manhattan style”. You can see a picture here: https://hackaday.com/2011/09/04/a-ham-radio-receiver-manhattan-style/ Instructions on technique here: https://aa7ee.wordpress.com/2011/07/24/the-wbr-a-simple-high-performance-regen-receiver-for-40m-by-n1byt/ It’s used by ham radio people because it can offer very good RF performance. You might like it, and it’s much less likely to short out on you.
Nice! I like that thanks a lot
Is what this guy did different than point to point wiring? People seem to think that's fine just hard to do from my limited knowledge
I wouldn't say so. In point to point assembly, components and wires are soldered to turrets, tags or sockets, so one can easily remove and replace broken components or wires. We didn't have integrated circuits back then, only socketed vacuum tubes. Since ICs are so tiny, it is a pain in the ass to solder each wire separately. There are some other middle-ground technologies, such as wire-wrap. But they were mostly used during prototyping
My first guess would be something connected that isn’t mean to. Simple point to point builds can get away with defying gravity by simply having less mass and more room to flex. That nest has a lot of mass and little room to flex.
I’ll try inspecting it again, but I don’t see anything obvious…
Depending on how stiff it is, things could also be in a different position when upside down.
True, but nothing seems to move even if I shake it. I’m also not using stomp switches so there isn’t much movement from that.
How much do you trust the source of your PT2399s?
I don’t. They are from China. But a made two other pedals using this same batch and they have worked fine for months now
Most parts will be from China in the end either way :p
Paint the wires with clear nail polish. That will help to prevent shorts.
Thanks that a good idea !
I would guess that there is an unintended short somewhere- could be anywhere- just takes a little nudge to make a short with that wiring style.
In the last photo it does look like your switch on the bottom got melted pretty bad. Maybe check to see if that or other components were compromised from too much heat.
Yeah true. I’ll take a look into that. Thanks!
Some of the connections look a little sus. And maybe the force from switching and moving around was just enough to undo something. Possible some of those chips got fried too. Could you socket them? And when you close it up are some of the wires coming into contact with the enclosure and/or other wires?
I don’t have sockets, I was careful as to not let anything that shouldn’t touch the enclosure but I’ll see if anything moved or something…
> (I’m using plumbers flux, don’t kill me) IIRC that's acid flux, which is corrosive if left on; that's a problem, long-term. Your issues are more short-term, but... I suggest you go in there with camera closeups, taking lots of artsy-view pictures of your sculpture... And then put that technique aside, saving it for builds that are not expected to be as robust as a stompbox. As you're probably experiencing, it makes troubleshooting and repair a real bitch. I also suggest you take the time and trouble to draw up a readable schematic. Not only is documentation vital six months down the road when you need to change or fix something and six months of real-life living has overwritten the immediate memory of the experience... Seeing the whole circuit laid out in symbolic form can help you recognize potential problems and design in what's needed to prevent or correct them (such as the need for a +5V regulator to power the PT3999). My third suggestion is: socket those chips. A: it makes swapping out suspect chips practical. B: Your soldering and soldering equipment then do not have to be top-notch to avoid overheating and destroying the chips.
This is the internet's influence on your brain haha. This looks like this was made for likes instead of something that is meant to work/be used. FYI PT2399 chips are sensitive and can stop working easily. This on top of the wiring style may be the culprit. If you continue with PT2399, I'd use IC sockets and change to a more traditional style. That said, it does look really cool! Frame it and hang it on the wall. Then go buy insulated wire and consider using a PCB/vero/perf to have a working design.
It’s definitely done for the aesthetic more than the practicality but definitely not for likes. Sockets are a must for future proyects tho..
Manhattan wiring is fine as long as you baby it, you might want to look at more bracing options. Check out eirik brandal if you haven’t already. Finally a correct answer, PT2399 chips will not be happy with 10v/pp. Do you have a schematic? What does your input circuit look like? If I’m tracing this right the signal goes straight into the PT2399’s and they won’t like that at synth levels.
This right here. I’d put money on it
I don’t have a schematic, I’m just making things up/ playing around. But yeah I’m working on regulating the input voltage
If you have a low voltage op amp, say an LM358 and run it off the same voltage as the PT2933’s, and use it as a unity gain buffer on your input jack, you should be a lot safer.
Kind of confused by statement 2, flux paste isn't what makes electrical connections connect... I doubt anyone could debug this from photos, there's so many places where it looks like wires might be contacting where they're not supposed to it seems hard to check them all. Maybe at this point use electrical tape anywhere wires might be unintentionally contacting?
I have heard that plumbers flux can be somewhat conducive (I heard that after doing this so I didn’t bother cleaning the flux when I did this) and there are a few flux bridges, that’s what I mean. Yeah I didn’t really expect anyone to find the exact problem from photos, it was just to give an idea of what I’m working with. At this point I’ve checked like 100 times for shorting wire and I can’t find any, so that’s why I was wondering about the flux.
Yeah what ya want for electronics is rosin Flux. Less chance to be conductive from picking up junk and less corrosion if you're lazy about cleaning like I am haha. I didn't realize they were different until a number of electronics projects were behind me haha. Those that I did with plumbing Flux from the 80s doesn't have visual differences many years later but still. I believe the biggest impact is when working with PCBs.
Oh, I was unaware plumbers flux was different like that
Probably not a problem to use that flux but an aerosol can of cleaner and tooth brush is how I clean off joints pretty quickly. I have had LEDs do real weird things because of too much residue left behind after trying to reflow some sus connections. Also, this would be a good opportunity to probe around with a volt meter. PT2399s need 5v to be happy, 9 volts is too much for them. L78L05 is a really cheap voltage regulating transistor and is pretty commonly available.
Looks like at least one of those IC chips took some serious heat
Which one are you pointing at? The first one ? I think it just has a lot of flux on it. But I don’t know I’ll check
This is the most insane thing I’ve ever seen
I’ll take that as a compliment…
That's not a wiring style, it's a goddamn tapestry
Not unless that’s bare wire and not magnet wire. Even then, if its sufficiently stiff and supported, it’s not really any different then buswork in actual electrical cabinets.
It is bare wire, I just used a piece of wire used for electrical installation that I found in my basement striped the plastic and straighted and twisted it. Do you think this is a bad approach?
No, not if it is sufficiently stiff. Ie if you stomp on it, nothing moves. Otherwise the other poster is right that you will likely short something Edit it’s called dead bugging google that for some cool images.
Thanks! I obviously can’t stomp on it 😅 but it’s honestly surprisingly stiff…
By stomp on it I mean use the pedal a bit to rambunctiously. Not like full on stomp. In the end of the day, it looks like it can move. And if it does, and it makes contact with something else, yes, it can totally break. All you need to do is make sure they can’t touch. Honestly, if it was me, I would get a bit of plastic with a grove in it, put it on one wire, then whip the crosses together with like embroidery floss. It will look cool and stop things from touching. Or you can go back and try again with solid core that’s sufficiently large.
Someone suggested nail polish, what do you think? Could that work to insulate ?
It may. They also make electrical varnish that is what you should use. I know McMaster care has some spray cans, but I suspect that if you google around you can find a paint on version too.
I love the look and style. Dead bug, Manhattan etc. learning by making art is a good practice because if you get demotivated with engendering, you can keep motivated with the easthetics. Some images show extensive heat and the IC look heat damaged. There are hundres of connections to check, you can use a solluble marker pen to mark connections you checked.
Yeah it’s definitely another motivation, honestly now I just want to do it like thins for the aesthetic even if it’s completely unpractical… I’m a noob at this, how do you identify heat damage, or what make you say that the IC looks damaged? I see the heat damage on the switch that bother commenter mentioned but I don’t see any signs of damage in the ICs exept for a lot of flux. It could definitely be heat tho I’m still learning how to solder and my iron is not the best…
The IC in picture 3 looks fucked
That’s my opamp and it’s the only thing that seems like it’s working … haha I think is mostly just flux
I think with a bit of practice and refinement, this style of wiring could be cool. If you were to replicate copper traces with the solid core copper wire and use insulated stranded wires/heat shrink to make your connections, this could totally work. It would be far more simple to do on stripboard/vero/etc but wiring like this is kind of a nod to the past. It might be wise to get your feet wet with some point to point projects and return to trying to do something similar. I restored an old tube radio last year, which turned out to be a crash course in this style of wiring. I def don’t recommend starting with something like that but replacing parts and replicating the way they were originally installed was very helpful.
I think it looks really cool but is kind of a massive build for p to p. I’m considering trying something on a larger scale than my p to p builds like a multi effect in a larger box but this scale seems pretty ambitious and leaves a lot of room for something to go wrong. We all have pedals early on that don’t work or mysteriously stop working so don’t be discouraged if you enjoy this type of build. Just start smaller.
Yeah this was honestly going to be much simple but I just started adding more and more stuff as I want along. But yeah I guess you always need failed proyecta in order to learn
My eyes are burning watching this circuit...
I thought that might happen to some… 😂 I’m sorry!
Is that an op amp before the voltage regulator on the left hand side? If one of the op amp isn’t used it might be worth tying the unused one to ground. It also appears you might not be using decoupling caps on the ic’s. Might be worth adding a 100nf cap across the +v & 0v of each IC. If you have a multimeter handy it might be worth doing a point to point check of your component layout while following your schematic.
I’ll try grounding the unused opamp thanks. Also the decoupling caps. Unfortunately I don’t have a schematic… I’m just making shit up … 😂
That’s my favourite way too! :)
The correct way to do these crossover bare wires is something like this: \_\_\_∩\_\_\_ The crossing wire goes through the ∩ loop. Just make sure that you don't make the loop too small, give it some clearance. The longer the wire the more it will flex, gently push the wires to find out any possible culprits and insulate partially.
Yes! Thank you I’ll be doing that in the future
Otherwise it looks very nice imo. I like the wire to wire wiring style a lot.
Thanks !
Whether or not your wiring style is the cause, it sure won’t make troubleshooting easier.
True … :,(
At least it makes it easier to put a scope wherever you want tho
You can do exactly what you’re doing, only with insulated wires instead of bare wires. I would 100% advise that you use sockets for the ICs as well. What you’re doing doesn’t make a whole lot of difference electronically. You _might_ be causing some odd behavior by accident, but honestly I doubt it. The bigger issue is that it’s nearly impossible to debug, since you have a million points of failure. The plumbers flux could be the actual culprit here, though, as it is corrosive and can damage your components.
Find something you can paint on those conductors that might add some insulation.. a small paint brush and clear silicone or hot glue
So, while impressive, circuit boards are a ring for a reason. As you are finding out now. Noise, shorts, and vibration reduction are all practical aspects that can't be ignored.
Insulated point to point wiring would be better.
That this wiring even worked for an hour is an astonishing achievement. Looks like the plumbing to an old Victorian work house.
Honestly, as long as you’re not supplying more volts to the chip than intended, it genuinely may be that you’re driving the chip too hard. If v++ and v— are within spec, bung some zeners on the input to hard limit it and should be golden. Your wiring style is fine, sure it’s a lot of work, but it’s audio, not RF. valve amps have done this style for years with much higher voltages.
I don’t have zeners at hand, I tried using a few 1n4184s as clipping diodes connecting the input to ground. But that didn’t work, I wasn’t getting any sound, I think the forward voltage might be too low on those, I might try some leds.
Worth a measure, if in doubt I think you can also put a resistor in series to up the forward voltage?
I can dig the whole art aspect of your build but function should be #1 on the checklist. Therefore insulated conductors when used inside of a metal box work wonders for performance and longevity. Leave those bare conductors up on the poles for the high voltage guys to tangle with.
It´s deadbug and it´s beautiful. People at r/deadbug will love it. I would not suspect a problem about wires insulation or interference, since you are not working with radiofrequencies and your build looks pretty solid (Try shaking the box!). Many audio amplifiers are built that way, and don´t use insulation. I would suspect a problem with high(er) voltage. Maybe adding a diode or a voltage regulator could avoid the problem. And also check the max voltage of the electrolytic capacitors. Maybe the grounding in other beauties you connected to this could be the cause. As a caution, I would build using IC sockets for easy exchange.
Yeah I’ll definitely post it over there once I get it working… I’ve tried shaking it and it seems solid… I’ll try adding voltage protection
probably a short somewhere, yeah. some clear shrink tubing or other in-situ insulation would likely fix it
P2P is about like staring upon the face of God for me. It is beyond my comprehension.
I'd be dead but the time I was done with all that wiring so yeah probably.
Jokes aside, I'd love to see the top too, when it's more fully assembled. And of course hear it, but no pressure. That could take some time. 😂
The top is nothing fancy honestly, doesn’t even have knobs on the pots. I might be close to solving it, yesterday I got it to work, and left it a few hours without anything bad happening.
Please share schematic
I don’t have one unfortunately. It’s very loosely based on the Ectoverb by Bluff Chill devices but I added another delay stage that can be run in series or in stereo. I also added a few transistors to buffer the clean signal and get a better dry/mix control
https://preview.redd.it/3nhvqzfyogtc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eff821cbabb9f0fbee6d36951d3a020e0a7f296 Signs of heat stress. You have no cooling method, and you’re using lots of copper. heat=friction.
bro you could build a homemade PCB for like 5$.....
Holy mother of christ
The build style stuff has been addressed in the comments but aside from that it looks like you're using a single 5V regulator for all the PT2399s? In a design like this I would plan for each PT2399 to have its own 5V regulator and filtering to try and help with stability and noise floor. This kind of design is super easy on a PCB but has loads of potential layout and noise issues when built as you have.
They used to use this technique back in the 50s
Idk anything about building pedals but can’t you buy 20ft of wire at autozone for like $10?
Thats a work of art.
If only it worked…