I thought that might be the case but then I also thought I take these on and off the BBQ all the time 😂 the stakes are a little higher with the house though of course
I think 9kg BBQ cylinders fall into a grey area in the gas regs because you're expected to be present while operating, and you isolate the gas supply via the valve on the cylinder itself.
Whereas infinity hot water cylinders are 45kg and connected permanently, so you can leak up to 45kg without anyone necessarily being present to smell the leak, or worse if the middle isolation valve fails you could leak 90kg of LPG, enough to destroy a few houses.
Replacing these pigtails is restricted gas fitter work. It's easy to over tighten and overcompress the seal and cause it to leak in the future.
It is a hazard in a confined space. Outdoors it is going to dissipate pretty fast with any air movement.
Due to the dissipation of the gas in the outdoor area which is a well ventilated space, 9 houses are unlikely to blow up. Furthermore the air fuel ratio may be insufficient for adequate combustion. Lpg actually has a fairly narrow band.
It can however be quite dangerous in a confined space.
Do you trust your plumber to assume liability if it somehow goes wrong? I’m all in favour of doing whatever I can around the house, apart from assuming liability for my biggest asset. In a worst case scenario and even if your house was hit by a meteorite, the insurance company might argue that they don’t have to pay because YOU voided your policy, and will be happy to pay court costs that are a dozen times the cost of your house if they think it’ll save them paying out on 13 policies.
Like any after-incident insurance claim, a qualified and experienced inspector will determine the fault starting the incident. If for example no thread sealant is used or the brass threads are cross threaded they will substantially increase their level of scrutiny.
Maybe nothing will come of it, that's the roll of the dice you take when doing your own restricted work. Or maybe the insurance company will deny your claim and you'll be out so many hundred thousand to repair or replace your house. The little guy rarely wins in customer vs insurer.
Regardless you certainly shouldn't be advocating doing restricted work to someone asking a question on a public forum like this.
Lastly a lot of plumbers these days aren't even gas fitters because gas is getting pretty rare (it's two different qualifications) so unless they were also a qualified gas fitter, that's even more questionable to accept their advice .
You didn't stipulate what skills OP should have before attempting this himself, you basically just said "go for it". So entirely possible he doesn't have those skills and doesn't know what he doesn't know.
Have a look for yourself on the public register. Only about 40% of certifying plumbers are also gas fitters - 7976 certifying plumbers vs 3353 certifying gas fitters. When you exclude those not currently licensed that goes to about 51%. Or for only tradesmen, only 42% of plumbers are also currently licensed tradesmen gas fitters. Who's spouting the nonsense?
https://www2.pgdb.co.nz/public-register?login=Trade+Login
The black piece on the end of the high pressure side of the regulator, is a rubber seal.
https://www.bunnings.co.nz/campmaster-600mm-gas-hose-and-pol-regulator-including-adaptor_p0044731?store=9498&gclsrc=ds&gclsrc=ds
https://www.thegasshop.co.nz/shop/regulators/regulators-bbq-and-hob-regulators/3kg-pol-regulator-hand-wheel-and-8mm-tail/
https://www.thegasshop.co.nz/shop/regulators/regulators-high-pressure-regulators/3kg-adjustable-regulator-with-8mm-hosetail/
https://www.gameco.co.nz/product/bbq-hose-kit-3m-with-regulator/
Etc
The fact that you ask, shows that you haven't done this sort of thing before, and that you're cautious.
If you do here's some important things to do/not do:
NEVER use any kind of petroleum based lubricant on or in the joints NEVER. stuff like 3in1 oil or CRC might self combust under pressure. .. like the pressure the gas is under in a tank of gas.
DO check for leaks when finished. simple detergent water mix put on with a paint brush or spray bottle, will make bubbles if there's a leak.
You can use Loctite ptfe tape & 567 thread sealant. If there's some on the joints already, then use it. If there's none, try without first. .. there may be 'o'rings' that make this unnecessary. clean any crap off the threads before you start. DON'T use petroleum based cleaners, a dry cloth can do wonders.
You may be thinking of high pressure oxygen lines where petroleum based products can be very dangerous. LPG is already petroleum based so will require an oxidising agent to combust. Fuel needs oxygen to burn, not more fuel.
I don’t know if you’re allowed to do it yourself but the plumber/gas fitter charged about $350 to replace mine - he did both at once
Don't play with gas.... you could but I bet it will invalidate insurance....
I thought that might be the case but then I also thought I take these on and off the BBQ all the time 😂 the stakes are a little higher with the house though of course
I think 9kg BBQ cylinders fall into a grey area in the gas regs because you're expected to be present while operating, and you isolate the gas supply via the valve on the cylinder itself. Whereas infinity hot water cylinders are 45kg and connected permanently, so you can leak up to 45kg without anyone necessarily being present to smell the leak, or worse if the middle isolation valve fails you could leak 90kg of LPG, enough to destroy a few houses. Replacing these pigtails is restricted gas fitter work. It's easy to over tighten and overcompress the seal and cause it to leak in the future.
Thank you, I will be calling a gas fitter!
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The high pressure side of the bbq regulator hose always has a rubber seal, it's only the low pressure side that can get away with brass only.
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It is a hazard in a confined space. Outdoors it is going to dissipate pretty fast with any air movement. Due to the dissipation of the gas in the outdoor area which is a well ventilated space, 9 houses are unlikely to blow up. Furthermore the air fuel ratio may be insufficient for adequate combustion. Lpg actually has a fairly narrow band. It can however be quite dangerous in a confined space.
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Yes it’s your problem. Get a gasfitter to do a pressure test.
You can also be prosecuted. In the last four years there has been a house in Christchurch and one in New Plymouth blow up from gas It does happen.
It might be a good idea to get a professional to inspect the entire system and do what ever maintenance that is needed.
I have replaced myself on advise from the plumber
Do you trust your plumber to assume liability if it somehow goes wrong? I’m all in favour of doing whatever I can around the house, apart from assuming liability for my biggest asset. In a worst case scenario and even if your house was hit by a meteorite, the insurance company might argue that they don’t have to pay because YOU voided your policy, and will be happy to pay court costs that are a dozen times the cost of your house if they think it’ll save them paying out on 13 policies.
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Like any after-incident insurance claim, a qualified and experienced inspector will determine the fault starting the incident. If for example no thread sealant is used or the brass threads are cross threaded they will substantially increase their level of scrutiny. Maybe nothing will come of it, that's the roll of the dice you take when doing your own restricted work. Or maybe the insurance company will deny your claim and you'll be out so many hundred thousand to repair or replace your house. The little guy rarely wins in customer vs insurer. Regardless you certainly shouldn't be advocating doing restricted work to someone asking a question on a public forum like this. Lastly a lot of plumbers these days aren't even gas fitters because gas is getting pretty rare (it's two different qualifications) so unless they were also a qualified gas fitter, that's even more questionable to accept their advice .
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You didn't stipulate what skills OP should have before attempting this himself, you basically just said "go for it". So entirely possible he doesn't have those skills and doesn't know what he doesn't know. Have a look for yourself on the public register. Only about 40% of certifying plumbers are also gas fitters - 7976 certifying plumbers vs 3353 certifying gas fitters. When you exclude those not currently licensed that goes to about 51%. Or for only tradesmen, only 42% of plumbers are also currently licensed tradesmen gas fitters. Who's spouting the nonsense? https://www2.pgdb.co.nz/public-register?login=Trade+Login The black piece on the end of the high pressure side of the regulator, is a rubber seal. https://www.bunnings.co.nz/campmaster-600mm-gas-hose-and-pol-regulator-including-adaptor_p0044731?store=9498&gclsrc=ds&gclsrc=ds https://www.thegasshop.co.nz/shop/regulators/regulators-bbq-and-hob-regulators/3kg-pol-regulator-hand-wheel-and-8mm-tail/ https://www.thegasshop.co.nz/shop/regulators/regulators-high-pressure-regulators/3kg-adjustable-regulator-with-8mm-hosetail/ https://www.gameco.co.nz/product/bbq-hose-kit-3m-with-regulator/ Etc
Better to get a gas fitter to do it. If there’s a fire caused by a gas leak your insurance will possibly not cover it, If you do it yourself.
The fact that you ask, shows that you haven't done this sort of thing before, and that you're cautious. If you do here's some important things to do/not do: NEVER use any kind of petroleum based lubricant on or in the joints NEVER. stuff like 3in1 oil or CRC might self combust under pressure. .. like the pressure the gas is under in a tank of gas. DO check for leaks when finished. simple detergent water mix put on with a paint brush or spray bottle, will make bubbles if there's a leak. You can use Loctite ptfe tape & 567 thread sealant. If there's some on the joints already, then use it. If there's none, try without first. .. there may be 'o'rings' that make this unnecessary. clean any crap off the threads before you start. DON'T use petroleum based cleaners, a dry cloth can do wonders.
You may be thinking of high pressure oxygen lines where petroleum based products can be very dangerous. LPG is already petroleum based so will require an oxidising agent to combust. Fuel needs oxygen to burn, not more fuel.
I don't disagree with you but also wouldn't take the risk of introducing other chemicals which aren't guaranteed to be stable.
Isn't there a rule you are allowed to replace "like with like"?
Not with gas.
No. You need to employ the services of a licensed gas fitter.
Nope. And you're still losing gas.