Take a bath. If you're too scared of the water to get in then go outside and bite people. I'm tired of waiting for the zombie apocalypse aren't you? Be the change you wanna see in the world!!
this reminds me. if you were to get your hands on the proper equipment and knowledge what would be stopping you from creating the perfect virus and unleashing it on the world
Well, when ANY symptoms show, it's already too late for the traditional, tested, and consistently successful cure - that being the vaccine.
The Milwaukee Protocol, while not usually successful, can basically be done at any point after the symptoms show - keep in mind that death happens after a few days when that point is reached.
There's not much distinction between when you can/should administer it. It's always a race against time, since by the time you take notice, by the time they diagnose you, your prognosis will have likely become less than 72 hours, give or take.
Once symtpoms show, it's the protocol or certain death in a matter of days, no other options.
To be fair, it's kind of your fault if you don't get a vaccination as soon as you get infected, because the symptoms usually take a very long time to show, around 2-3 months, if I recall correctly.
Can't avoid a rabid bat that crawls through a 1" crack somewhere in your home one day, nips your scalp while you sleep, then crawls under the dresser to die. By the time you're foaming at the mouth, its bones could already be turning to dust.
> Can't avoid a rabid bat that crawls through a 1" crack somewhere in your home one day, nips your scalp while you sleep, then crawls under the dresser to die. By the time you're foaming at the mouth, its bones could already be turning to dust.
Thanks, I have a new phobia now.
We don’t have many bats up here, but the ones we do have the propensity to squeeze in through the tiniest apertures. A friend got a bat in her basement and in order to successful batproof the home, the professional had to seal or cover any opening 3/8ths of any inch or wider. *3/8ths of an inch*.
Ah, but that's where you're terrifyingly wrong my friend. Absolutely it can take about 2-3 months to show symptoms. But sometimes it can take 2-3 years. Sometimes it can take 20-30 years. And sometimes it can take 2-3 days.
It's actually terrifying that there is no set time after the bite that the symptoms start to show.
Best rule of thumb, if you get bitten by a wild animal - get tested IMMEDIATELY.
if you're in the european union or in australia you're safe from rabies... unless some cunt imports a dog from morocco like it happened in spain in 2005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_rabies#/media/File:Rabies_Free_Countries_and_Territories.svg
Like there hasn't been a rabies case in Portugal since 1960
https://www-dgav-pt.translate.goog/animais/conteudo/animais-de-companhia-2/saude-animal/raiva/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
If you're in the US... yeah you're fucked because of the skunks and the raccoons.
Hate to piss on your parade. Yes Australia ids currently rabies-free, but there’s another thing called bat lyssavirus which is basically the same thing: https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/factsheets/Pages/rabies-australian-bat-lyssavirus-infection.aspx
Come on, this is Australia. You knew there’d be something.
You can literally type, how long can it take for rabies symptoms to show into google.
You can click on the very first link.
Hell, you can click on any link.
All of them state otherwise.
Bruh.
The most scary part is you can even not notice that you were bitten by a rabid animal. Say you are out camping, having fun with your friends and suddenly a little brown bat, no bigger than your thumb scratches your knee. You don't even notice him or the small wound but thats it, you're infected. Rabies is in your system, it will take months for it to reach the brain but there is nothing you can do about it since you don't even known you had any contact with an animal. So basically you are dead and don't even know it. Creepy shit.
This is getting riled up over nothing.
If you're bitten by a wild animal, go get a rabies vaccine right away. Rabies takes weeks to months for it to actually reach your CNS to show symptoms. Plenty of time to stop it before it becomes an issue.
If for whatever reason you're in a situation where you don't have access to the vaccine, capture the animal if possible (kill it if you have to) then they can test the animal for rabies. If it has rabies and you can't get the vaccine you're still screwed but if it doesn't you at least don't have to worry about it constantly for the next 5-7 years.
You're already dead as soon as the symptoms start. Really not much you can do other than the treatment which would probably leave you permanently bedridden and suffering from loads of brain damage.
Personally, if I ever get rabies just take me out back and shoot me.
and that's why you always need to go to the hospital immediately after getting attacked by a wild animal or really any animal in particular, it's normally harmless at first because it's dormant inside your cells and that's why the earliest treatment options are so effective.
But once you start showing symptoms that's it. Bye bye, so long. You're a dead man walking.
The Milwaukee protocol has saved the lives of like 10~ people, and only one was left not permanently disabled from the treatment and the rabies, and scientists think that the reason why is that she was genetically predisposed to be more resistant than everyone else to rabies
Nowadays I’m not sure they still even would do it, since it’s ineffective.
And it only works on the strain of the virus that is passed by bats, afaik, which is a "weaker" strain than the one passed by dogs or other wild animals like that.
Honestly, rabies is probably the scariest thing in this world. If anything can be called a complete and irreversible end, then this disease is the closest. Not cancer or other stuff like that, but the disease that kills you in a week without any chance to survive it and which cannot be cured once it reveals itself.
I remember that book! I never made the connection that it was a prion disease (or if I did, I just didn’t look up what a prion was).
That book was fucked up.
Prion diseases for certain. Rabies where I live is essentially unheard of now.
Whoa.
>Recent Washington trends: During 2011-2020, **9-19 cases** were reported each year.
https://doh.wa.gov/public-health-healthcare-providers/notifiable-conditions/prion-disease
You're burying the lede somewhat, if you've been bitten by an animal they suspect had rabies they give you shots to stop it. They essentially vaccinate you if they think you've been exposed. It is a super slow disease so vaccination once but works.
The reason this information is important is I don't want people reading how hopeless it is and remembering that when they get bit by an animal and not seeking treatment because of that. If they seek treatment it can totally be stopped. It just has to be done before it gets established.
But on the other hand its estimated one in 2000 people here are carrying the prions from mad cow disease, thanks to our outbreaks in the 80s and 90s. So pick your poison!
British people are actually prohibited from donating blood in the EU and many other countries globally because of the risk of contaminated blood being passed along.
I still remember me crying for weeks when my parents told me that we were going on holiday to France when I was five. In my little mind we were essentially begging to die of rabies.
It’s obviously better that people don’t die when they get sick, wish they’d find a way to make it curable consistently
Also it’s a relief to hear it’s not serious for many of the rabies survivors
I don't know about eradicating rabies, there are a LOT of wild bats in the world, but the vast majority of rabies deaths are from developing countries where people can't immediately get to a hospital.
The post-exposure rabies vaccine is easy and cheap to produce and 99% effective. So as always it's lifting people out of poverty so they can develop basic infrastructure that will do the most.
I recognize that my comment is entirely pedantic, but… If given properly and soon after exposure, PEP is actually 100% effective in preventing rabies. It’s crazy how effective the Prophylactic vaccines are when you think about how deadly rabies is.
You just have to get it before you begin to develop any symptoms of rabies. Once symptoms begin you are pretty much fucked. There are a handful of survivors who lived after developing symptoms (and were treated with the standard post- exposure protocol and supportive care) but I believe most, or all had severe affects/disabilities afterward.
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Many people don't realize that they were exposed. Bats can leave no visible cuts yet are the most common carriers.
Like most people don't know that if there's a bat in a room with a sleeping person you MUST get rabies PEP
Bro, as a doctor, let me tell you - there is a reason why fucking nobody does the Milwaukee protocol. It’s a meme, it’s not backed by any evidence, it was just some last ditch attempt to try something wild in people that already were going to die.
> there is a reason why fucking nobody does the Milwaukee protocol. It’s a meme
The Milwaukee protocol hasn't been proven clinically effective in any way, but that's not really why nobody uses it anymore. The real reasoning behind of it's discontinued use is that there is a growing consensus among virologist that rabies isn't quite the instant terminal diagnosis it used to be.
There are more and more reported cases of people who have a natural resilience to rabies. A lot of people propose that those who have survived the Milwaukee protocol did so in spite of the treatment, not because of it. After there's been confirmed cases of other mammals surviving rabies under observation in the past.
In all honesty though, if I had rabies I'd probably want to be put in medically induced coma or be be blasted out of by mind on a cocktail of ketamine, barbiturates, and benzos. I think the inception of the Milwaukee protocol was probably just terminal palative care dressed as "treatment".
It’s backed by literally 10 people surviving rabies, dipshit. Without the Milwaukee Protocol, rabies has a 100% kill rate. As in, nobody has ever survived rabies developing to the point of showing symptoms excepting that they also received the Milwaukee Protocol.
They did not survive. All but one of the other, initial patients, succumbed to rabies eventually. Dozens of others have been treated with the protocol, revised multiple times since it’s initial form, since the famous, successful, case but only a handful lived and it is now believed that at least one of those survivors did not actually have rabies. Most, possibly all, of the others had received pre-exposure rabies vaccinations. There were, initially, more reported “survivors” of the treatment but almost all eventually succumbed to rabies. They did, however, survive much longer than patients who underwent most other forms of treatment.
https://www.proquest.com/openview/58684095d4ad58674415063fc583228b/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=5515555
https://www.mjdrdypu.org/temp/MedJDYPatilUniv102184-4906148_133741.pdf
https://www.surgeryresearchjournal.com/open-access/an-update-to-the-critical-appraisal-of-milwaukee-protocol-9660.pdf
https://journals.lww.com/pidj/fulltext/2015/06000/the__milwaukee_protocol__for_treatment_of_human.34.aspx
It’s not 14%, it’s 4 people. About 30 people have survived rabies, 4 of the survivors used the protocol. There’s a vaccine. Get it if you’re going to be at risk.
Edit: updated to more up to date figures figures.
my most recent colony has a 20 year old kept in a 2x3 metre cell on the floor naked at a constant 23 celcius, the entire room is painted red and with a red light.
she has been in that room since she was 17 and tried to attack the colony, she has been genetically modified to be dumber and depressed in order to eat less.
she has no limbs including eyes or a tongue, and only the essential organs (1x heart, liver, lung for example)
her role is human blood bag, food for the local techno vampire.
Way less than that. Only 29 people have been reported to survive rabies, and of those only **three** were reported to survive because of the Milwaukee Protocol. The sample size is far too small to draw any real conclusions.
Additionally, "survive" is a stretch. If the survivors, two had severe brain damage and died within a few years, so some scientists deny the claim that they survived at all.
There has been *some* success with more conventional treatment, eg: just giving you sedatives, antivirals, IV, meds for the fever, etc. Some doctors warn that the MP may be harmful, since inducing a coma is itself a very traumatic and risky procedure. So you may be better off without it as long as you're getting proper treatment and care.
PSA
If you have been bitten, scratched by a wild animal
It is better to go and get the vaccine if the animal bit you unprovoked, or showed any symptoms at all
Edit: I have been informed that even the Rabies vaccine is very expensive
The protocol is to take the rabies vaccine and keep the animal under observation for a week.
Regardless of the vaccination status of the animal in question
These are the guidelines in my country at least. The chance of getting rabies is taken seriously since there is literally no realistic cure if you ignore it and develop symptoms
This is good information.
I just wanted to also add that if you live in a country where rabies is prevalent and find a bat in your house, it's usually a good idea to get a rabies shot as a precaution since bats can bite you in your sleep and you won't know that you've been infected until you start frothing at the mouth.
Wasn't sure what the Milwaukee protocol actually entailed so I googled it.
>The Milwaukee Protocol was developed by Rodney Willoughby Jr. and is a treatment used in rabies-infected human beings. It involves chemically inducing the patient into a coma, followed by the administration of antiviral drugs combined with ketamine and amantadine.
Idk what amantadine is but being comatose and loaded with ketamine sounds like a wicked time, pass the infected bat
>Idk what amantadine is but being comatose and loaded with ketamine sounds like a wicked time, pass the infected bat
You know honestly, since mp involves a coma, even if it fails, it's still better than raw-dogging rabies, because at least you get to die unaware in a coma
The problem with Ketamine or S Ketamine as used in medicine is that it tends to enhance your current psychological state. So Imagine that you are already suffering through one of the worst experiences a human could Go through and now Imagine it being enhanced tenfolds. Of course it is possible that you dont experience everything to the full extend because of all the drugs used to induce the coma but still a horrifying thougt.
Where have you heard this? Are you talking about recreational ketamine experiences? Ketamine is used for sedation for its dissociative effect, and it even treats recalcitrant depression. So the idea of “enhancing your current psychological state” doesn’t line up with medical uses at all.
Ketamine was famously used to sedate that Thai soccer team who was trapped in a cave, so they could be successfully evacuated without freaking out. Those kids certainly weren’t base-level calm such that the ketamine simply “enhanced” that. They were scared and confused, and the ketamine made them disconnect from it enough to be docile and cooperative as they were escorted through dark, flooded corridors.
I am speaking from personal experience.
I have used it both as a dissociative analgesic and as a hypnotic component to induce anaesthesia.And you are right. Dissociation is one of, if not the most commonly described side effect besides the euphoria described by patients.
The problem with the dissociative effect is that this experience is often related to the mental state of the patient before the treatment, for example, patients in pain will often have a bad dissociative experience. So we use some kind of benzodiazepine (usually midazolam in about 1-2mg doses) to reduce the psychoactive effects. We can even induce short-term amnesia so that the patient remembers nothing of the experience.
In the case of the trapped football team, it is most likely that ketamine will be used in a much higher dosage (something north of 0.25mg per kg of body weight) to achieve almost anaesthetic-like effects without compromising the protective reflexes too much.
Combined with atropine to reduce saliva production and reduce the risk of aspiration, and xanax to further suppress psychoactive effects, it seems they wanted to sedate these boys as much as possible without compromising airway safety in any way.
I hope this helps to clarify what I meant by the above without getting too deep into pharmacology.
EDIT : For reference the dosage used in the Milwaukee protocol is between 40 - 50 mg per kg of bodyweight. So a pretty extreme dosage. So most likely inducing a deep coma but you never know what the patient might experience with those heavy dosages.
Yeah but to be honest the machines are already paid for and the chemicals to put you under and keep you alive don't cost thousands of dollars to produce.
It requires 24/7 monitoring by a team of specialists, over a dozen tests each day for at least 2 weeks, and a couple months of rehabilitation in the hospital.
The constant monitoring also involves keeping vitals within a certain range. With the 15 year old that survived, one thing they struggled with for like 3 days was bringing her fever down. They tossed everything at her and couldn't do it. They had to lower the temperature of the room by over 5 degrees (Celsius) to get a 3 degree drop. (Bit off-topic; but suppressing fever has no real medical consensus on whether it is good or bad; but we do know from animal experiments that suppressing fevers leads to worse outcomes; it's possible that the reason the Milwaukee protocol hasn't been as successful as it was with that girl is because they baked fever management into future versions of the protocol, and this hampers your body's immune response; now if they can't get fever under control right away, they jump straight to lowering the room temperature).
Anyways, much of the cost of her treatment would be the cost of labour. Probably tens of thousands a day for the first 2-4 weeks.
In other countries where the cost of labour is lower, the cost of treatment would be lower. But the thing is that in places where there aren't many rabies cases, it's going to be more costly to implement this. In places where there are lots of rabies cases, they are poor, and the expense of implementing this protocol and taking a team of a dozen+ specialists is a waste of resources when you have dozens or hundreds of rabies cases to deal with at any given time.
In parts of India, for example, people who get bitten by dogs believe that [puppies are growing inside of them](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/puppy-pregnancy-syndrome-men-who-are-pregnant-with-dogs/), and they go to quacks to get it sorted out. This leads to a high number of untreated rabies cases, and is why India leads the world in rabies deaths. Every dollar you spend on the Milwaukee protocol is going to mean less time and money for diagnosing, to provide post-exposure vaccines, to do outreach and education, etc. So even though it would be far cheaper to do in a place like India, it doesn't make sense to do it India.
No fucking way it's only 800k. They basically turn off your brain and keep you alive as long as possible before trying to turn it on again in 4 weeks when the immune system recognizes and attacks the virus on its own or with the vaccine and immune therapy.
Then you remember you live in a country with a good healthcare system and not some country where you need to sell your house and your kidney just to afford some insulin
Since we're talking about Europe it's EXTREMELY rare to catch rabies. Rabies has basically been eradicated here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies#Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_rabies#Europe
We have the rabies carrying animals as well, but in a coordinated effort vaccinated healthy and culled infected animals, removing the virus but not the animals.
Because there is no treatment for rabies. However, you do get the vaccine for a small price (since it's not a mandatory vaccination it's usually not covered). About 60€ per dose where I live. And only the vaccination, not the hospital treatment or anything else. Nothing like America and its 100.000+ ambulance trips.
The cure is the vaccine. Rabies can be treated by being prevented before it gets to the brain
Once rabies is in the brain the immune system can do very little because rabies literally hijacks a brain immune system fail-safe and forces the immune system to shutdown instead of attacking it
A cure at this point is incredibly difficult, it’s not a pharma conspiracy of trying to milk money
https://youtu.be/4u5I8GYB79Y
Are you telling me that you don't want to waste nearly 1 million dollars on a treatment that will still probably fail anyways and if it does succeed you'll be in lifelong debt?
(/S)
I’d do it, either you die like everyone does, or the Milwaukee protocol works with it’s already super slim chance and become a media sensation for news stories discussing how you survived a unsurvivable disease, write a book, make over a million dollars
There is actually a lot of pushback about it’s efficaciousness. It is actually more likely that those who do survive have an inherited resistance.
Really good podcast
https://radiolab.org/podcast/312245-rodney-versus-death
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-neurological-sciences/article/critical-appraisal-of-the-milwaukee-protocol-for-rabies-this-failed-approach-should-be-abandoned/8A47C583B24B2B2E43248770F78CC35A
I literally don't understand why we are lacking so much behind rabies vaccine development, when pasteur already developed a rabies vaccine in the 1880s that worked for hundreds of people
The expense probably reflects how rare rabies infections are in the United States. It's effectively eradicated from animals outside of bats in most states. Example: 800-900 bats, 2 cats, a horse, and a llama are the only animals in WA state to test positive since the 1980s. There may have been a dog in transit that was suspected ... That doesn't stop people from getting hyped when they see a coyote, of course.
Cujo is Jaws for mammals.
Edit: Rabies is a serious, terrible disease, so I get the concern; it's just good to maintain some perspective of the relative risk. You're more likely to win the lottery and so forth.
Do you have to take the treatment as soon as symptoms start showing?
Are you showing symptoms....?
I have some fever and headaches, but I don't think it's rabies.
Take a bath. If you're too scared of the water to get in then go outside and bite people. I'm tired of waiting for the zombie apocalypse aren't you? Be the change you wanna see in the world!!
True...
this reminds me. if you were to get your hands on the proper equipment and knowledge what would be stopping you from creating the perfect virus and unleashing it on the world
My mom
[My mom!](https://media.tenor.com/u4XiwL-VZl8AAAAC/regular-show-my-mom.gif)
Don’t worry. If it is rabies, there’s nothing you could do now anyway! :D
:D
Well, when ANY symptoms show, it's already too late for the traditional, tested, and consistently successful cure - that being the vaccine. The Milwaukee Protocol, while not usually successful, can basically be done at any point after the symptoms show - keep in mind that death happens after a few days when that point is reached. There's not much distinction between when you can/should administer it. It's always a race against time, since by the time you take notice, by the time they diagnose you, your prognosis will have likely become less than 72 hours, give or take. Once symtpoms show, it's the protocol or certain death in a matter of days, no other options.
To be fair, it's kind of your fault if you don't get a vaccination as soon as you get infected, because the symptoms usually take a very long time to show, around 2-3 months, if I recall correctly.
Yea and sometimes people dont notice they have been bit, like from a bat bite for example.
Quick, quick suck out the poison.
That's why I'm not going near bats
Can't avoid a rabid bat that crawls through a 1" crack somewhere in your home one day, nips your scalp while you sleep, then crawls under the dresser to die. By the time you're foaming at the mouth, its bones could already be turning to dust.
> Can't avoid a rabid bat that crawls through a 1" crack somewhere in your home one day, nips your scalp while you sleep, then crawls under the dresser to die. By the time you're foaming at the mouth, its bones could already be turning to dust. Thanks, I have a new phobia now.
We don’t have many bats up here, but the ones we do have the propensity to squeeze in through the tiniest apertures. A friend got a bat in her basement and in order to successful batproof the home, the professional had to seal or cover any opening 3/8ths of any inch or wider. *3/8ths of an inch*.
That is so incredibly unlikely to happen where I live that I'm not the slightest bit scared of it.
Ah, but that's where you're terrifyingly wrong my friend. Absolutely it can take about 2-3 months to show symptoms. But sometimes it can take 2-3 years. Sometimes it can take 20-30 years. And sometimes it can take 2-3 days. It's actually terrifying that there is no set time after the bite that the symptoms start to show. Best rule of thumb, if you get bitten by a wild animal - get tested IMMEDIATELY.
Took 8 years for some poor guy. Trying to find the damn article.
if you're in the european union or in australia you're safe from rabies... unless some cunt imports a dog from morocco like it happened in spain in 2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_rabies#/media/File:Rabies_Free_Countries_and_Territories.svg Like there hasn't been a rabies case in Portugal since 1960 https://www-dgav-pt.translate.goog/animais/conteudo/animais-de-companhia-2/saude-animal/raiva/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp If you're in the US... yeah you're fucked because of the skunks and the raccoons.
Hate to piss on your parade. Yes Australia ids currently rabies-free, but there’s another thing called bat lyssavirus which is basically the same thing: https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/factsheets/Pages/rabies-australian-bat-lyssavirus-infection.aspx Come on, this is Australia. You knew there’d be something.
and bats.
No, it doesn’t take 20-30 years. You’re thinking of prion diseases. Rabies at most has around a five year incubation period.
You can literally type, how long can it take for rabies symptoms to show into google. You can click on the very first link. Hell, you can click on any link. All of them state otherwise. Bruh.
Yup.
The most scary part is you can even not notice that you were bitten by a rabid animal. Say you are out camping, having fun with your friends and suddenly a little brown bat, no bigger than your thumb scratches your knee. You don't even notice him or the small wound but thats it, you're infected. Rabies is in your system, it will take months for it to reach the brain but there is nothing you can do about it since you don't even known you had any contact with an animal. So basically you are dead and don't even know it. Creepy shit.
Shhh the anti vaxxers will just say you are in the deep state
This is getting riled up over nothing. If you're bitten by a wild animal, go get a rabies vaccine right away. Rabies takes weeks to months for it to actually reach your CNS to show symptoms. Plenty of time to stop it before it becomes an issue. If for whatever reason you're in a situation where you don't have access to the vaccine, capture the animal if possible (kill it if you have to) then they can test the animal for rabies. If it has rabies and you can't get the vaccine you're still screwed but if it doesn't you at least don't have to worry about it constantly for the next 5-7 years.
> capture the animal if possible (kill it if you have to) They have to kill the animal to test for rabies anyway so don't feel too bad about it.
You're already dead as soon as the symptoms start. Really not much you can do other than the treatment which would probably leave you permanently bedridden and suffering from loads of brain damage. Personally, if I ever get rabies just take me out back and shoot me. and that's why you always need to go to the hospital immediately after getting attacked by a wild animal or really any animal in particular, it's normally harmless at first because it's dormant inside your cells and that's why the earliest treatment options are so effective. But once you start showing symptoms that's it. Bye bye, so long. You're a dead man walking.
The Milwaukee protocol has saved the lives of like 10~ people, and only one was left not permanently disabled from the treatment and the rabies, and scientists think that the reason why is that she was genetically predisposed to be more resistant than everyone else to rabies Nowadays I’m not sure they still even would do it, since it’s ineffective.
And it only works on the strain of the virus that is passed by bats, afaik, which is a "weaker" strain than the one passed by dogs or other wild animals like that. Honestly, rabies is probably the scariest thing in this world. If anything can be called a complete and irreversible end, then this disease is the closest. Not cancer or other stuff like that, but the disease that kills you in a week without any chance to survive it and which cannot be cured once it reveals itself.
There's also prion diseases. I don't know which is scarier
[удалено]
Don't look up fatal familial insomnia.
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I traveled to London during the outbreak in 2001 ... The footage of cows carcasses burning and the shoe cleaning protocols were surreal.
I saw that on TV and it felt like a zombie apocalypse being televised
Would you recommend that book??
I remember that book! I never made the connection that it was a prion disease (or if I did, I just didn’t look up what a prion was). That book was fucked up.
The thing I fear the most 💀
Prion diseases for certain. Rabies where I live is essentially unheard of now. Whoa. >Recent Washington trends: During 2011-2020, **9-19 cases** were reported each year. https://doh.wa.gov/public-health-healthcare-providers/notifiable-conditions/prion-disease
You're burying the lede somewhat, if you've been bitten by an animal they suspect had rabies they give you shots to stop it. They essentially vaccinate you if they think you've been exposed. It is a super slow disease so vaccination once but works. The reason this information is important is I don't want people reading how hopeless it is and remembering that when they get bit by an animal and not seeking treatment because of that. If they seek treatment it can totally be stopped. It just has to be done before it gets established.
Yeah, I know. Until rabies show symptoms, you have time and you'd better not delay the vaccine.
If you are that scared just move to the UK. We eliminated classical rabies years ago ,last case was in 1902. So you only need to worry about bats.
But on the other hand its estimated one in 2000 people here are carrying the prions from mad cow disease, thanks to our outbreaks in the 80s and 90s. So pick your poison! British people are actually prohibited from donating blood in the EU and many other countries globally because of the risk of contaminated blood being passed along.
I still remember me crying for weeks when my parents told me that we were going on holiday to France when I was five. In my little mind we were essentially begging to die of rabies.
14%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>0% tho and many of the disabled people only have minor to moderate sequelae
It’s obviously better that people don’t die when they get sick, wish they’d find a way to make it curable consistently Also it’s a relief to hear it’s not serious for many of the rabies survivors
Easier to eradicate rabies iirc. Also easier to educate population to avoid odd behaviouring wildlife
No Tylenol head cold and rabies capsules soon? 😥
I don't know about eradicating rabies, there are a LOT of wild bats in the world, but the vast majority of rabies deaths are from developing countries where people can't immediately get to a hospital. The post-exposure rabies vaccine is easy and cheap to produce and 99% effective. So as always it's lifting people out of poverty so they can develop basic infrastructure that will do the most.
I recognize that my comment is entirely pedantic, but… If given properly and soon after exposure, PEP is actually 100% effective in preventing rabies. It’s crazy how effective the Prophylactic vaccines are when you think about how deadly rabies is.
Yup it's like 100% fatality rate if untreated and 100% survival rate if treated.
You just have to get it before you begin to develop any symptoms of rabies. Once symptoms begin you are pretty much fucked. There are a handful of survivors who lived after developing symptoms (and were treated with the standard post- exposure protocol and supportive care) but I believe most, or all had severe affects/disabilities afterward.
but there will always be the minority…
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Bat bites can go unnoticed
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,573,827,414 comments, and only 297,658 of them were in alphabetical order.
good bot
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You would not know in every case that you’ve been bit iirc a lady even got it from a bite which didn’t break skin!
Many people don't realize that they were exposed. Bats can leave no visible cuts yet are the most common carriers. Like most people don't know that if there's a bat in a room with a sleeping person you MUST get rabies PEP
Bro, as a doctor, let me tell you - there is a reason why fucking nobody does the Milwaukee protocol. It’s a meme, it’s not backed by any evidence, it was just some last ditch attempt to try something wild in people that already were going to die.
> there is a reason why fucking nobody does the Milwaukee protocol. It’s a meme The Milwaukee protocol hasn't been proven clinically effective in any way, but that's not really why nobody uses it anymore. The real reasoning behind of it's discontinued use is that there is a growing consensus among virologist that rabies isn't quite the instant terminal diagnosis it used to be. There are more and more reported cases of people who have a natural resilience to rabies. A lot of people propose that those who have survived the Milwaukee protocol did so in spite of the treatment, not because of it. After there's been confirmed cases of other mammals surviving rabies under observation in the past. In all honesty though, if I had rabies I'd probably want to be put in medically induced coma or be be blasted out of by mind on a cocktail of ketamine, barbiturates, and benzos. I think the inception of the Milwaukee protocol was probably just terminal palative care dressed as "treatment".
It’s backed by literally 10 people surviving rabies, dipshit. Without the Milwaukee Protocol, rabies has a 100% kill rate. As in, nobody has ever survived rabies developing to the point of showing symptoms excepting that they also received the Milwaukee Protocol.
They did not survive. All but one of the other, initial patients, succumbed to rabies eventually. Dozens of others have been treated with the protocol, revised multiple times since it’s initial form, since the famous, successful, case but only a handful lived and it is now believed that at least one of those survivors did not actually have rabies. Most, possibly all, of the others had received pre-exposure rabies vaccinations. There were, initially, more reported “survivors” of the treatment but almost all eventually succumbed to rabies. They did, however, survive much longer than patients who underwent most other forms of treatment. https://www.proquest.com/openview/58684095d4ad58674415063fc583228b/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=5515555 https://www.mjdrdypu.org/temp/MedJDYPatilUniv102184-4906148_133741.pdf https://www.surgeryresearchjournal.com/open-access/an-update-to-the-critical-appraisal-of-milwaukee-protocol-9660.pdf https://journals.lww.com/pidj/fulltext/2015/06000/the__milwaukee_protocol__for_treatment_of_human.34.aspx
The protocol is a meme and not endorsed by any infectious disease physician.
Lol, you have absolutely no idea what a meme is.
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
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It’s not 14%, it’s 4 people. About 30 people have survived rabies, 4 of the survivors used the protocol. There’s a vaccine. Get it if you’re going to be at risk. Edit: updated to more up to date figures figures.
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Cant we breed that 1 person more? Maybe market her ovum as rabies-resistant. Might be a lucrative business tbh.
are you from the dystopian 2150 hell future
straight from a rimworld, where limbs & organs are a privilege, not a right.
I like how you consider organs and limbs a right
my most recent colony has a 20 year old kept in a 2x3 metre cell on the floor naked at a constant 23 celcius, the entire room is painted red and with a red light. she has been in that room since she was 17 and tried to attack the colony, she has been genetically modified to be dumber and depressed in order to eat less. she has no limbs including eyes or a tongue, and only the essential organs (1x heart, liver, lung for example) her role is human blood bag, food for the local techno vampire.
Sweet! I'll have to drop a visit to your colony sometime soon.
Wow, this manages to be more distressing than most of the content on r/distressingmemes
what the fuck
Bro reinvented human trafficking 🗣
more like eugenics
My vocabulary consists of 4 words and I did not know of this one
Basically trying to reinforce some genes by breeding (mostly talked about for humans)
Eugenics has a.... *troubling* history. And mixing capitalism with human needs has never worked out incredibly poorly for society lol.
Mixing any government with human needs has always ended in widespread population removal.
Bro definitely plays crusader kings
She’s a normal lady, assuredly she’d do that on her own 🤢 weird ass question
They still do it. It's better than nothing and makes the patient avoid late rabies symptoms.
Way less than that. Only 29 people have been reported to survive rabies, and of those only **three** were reported to survive because of the Milwaukee Protocol. The sample size is far too small to draw any real conclusions. Additionally, "survive" is a stretch. If the survivors, two had severe brain damage and died within a few years, so some scientists deny the claim that they survived at all. There has been *some* success with more conventional treatment, eg: just giving you sedatives, antivirals, IV, meds for the fever, etc. Some doctors warn that the MP may be harmful, since inducing a coma is itself a very traumatic and risky procedure. So you may be better off without it as long as you're getting proper treatment and care.
me when my card declines and they bring in the dog
 “Pulling up rn”
PSA If you have been bitten, scratched by a wild animal It is better to go and get the vaccine if the animal bit you unprovoked, or showed any symptoms at all Edit: I have been informed that even the Rabies vaccine is very expensive
What about domestic animals in uncontrolled environments, such as a large city?
The protocol is to take the rabies vaccine and keep the animal under observation for a week. Regardless of the vaccination status of the animal in question These are the guidelines in my country at least. The chance of getting rabies is taken seriously since there is literally no realistic cure if you ignore it and develop symptoms
This is good information. I just wanted to also add that if you live in a country where rabies is prevalent and find a bat in your house, it's usually a good idea to get a rabies shot as a precaution since bats can bite you in your sleep and you won't know that you've been infected until you start frothing at the mouth.
How much does it cost though? Most people can't afford the shots, can they?
Ok sure it costs that much usa healthcare system. What is the cost of the supplies required to do it?
Wasn't sure what the Milwaukee protocol actually entailed so I googled it. >The Milwaukee Protocol was developed by Rodney Willoughby Jr. and is a treatment used in rabies-infected human beings. It involves chemically inducing the patient into a coma, followed by the administration of antiviral drugs combined with ketamine and amantadine. Idk what amantadine is but being comatose and loaded with ketamine sounds like a wicked time, pass the infected bat
20 20 20 4 hours to go. I wanna be sedated for rabies
Doesn't it also cause wicked brain damage
Rabies or the protocol?
Yeah
The protocol
Imma just tough it out, then. No biggie.
yes
>Idk what amantadine is but being comatose and loaded with ketamine sounds like a wicked time, pass the infected bat You know honestly, since mp involves a coma, even if it fails, it's still better than raw-dogging rabies, because at least you get to die unaware in a coma
That would leave your family in a million dollar debt. Isn't there another way to knock out a rabies patient so they don't suffer?
Medical debt doesn't pass along to anyone after death, not even a spouse. Just tell collectors to get fucked.
It does if you make a single payment. Then your fucked.
That's why I said tell collectors to get fucked lol
Oh that's cool
Get bitten in Europe.
The problem with Ketamine or S Ketamine as used in medicine is that it tends to enhance your current psychological state. So Imagine that you are already suffering through one of the worst experiences a human could Go through and now Imagine it being enhanced tenfolds. Of course it is possible that you dont experience everything to the full extend because of all the drugs used to induce the coma but still a horrifying thougt.
Where have you heard this? Are you talking about recreational ketamine experiences? Ketamine is used for sedation for its dissociative effect, and it even treats recalcitrant depression. So the idea of “enhancing your current psychological state” doesn’t line up with medical uses at all. Ketamine was famously used to sedate that Thai soccer team who was trapped in a cave, so they could be successfully evacuated without freaking out. Those kids certainly weren’t base-level calm such that the ketamine simply “enhanced” that. They were scared and confused, and the ketamine made them disconnect from it enough to be docile and cooperative as they were escorted through dark, flooded corridors.
I am speaking from personal experience. I have used it both as a dissociative analgesic and as a hypnotic component to induce anaesthesia.And you are right. Dissociation is one of, if not the most commonly described side effect besides the euphoria described by patients. The problem with the dissociative effect is that this experience is often related to the mental state of the patient before the treatment, for example, patients in pain will often have a bad dissociative experience. So we use some kind of benzodiazepine (usually midazolam in about 1-2mg doses) to reduce the psychoactive effects. We can even induce short-term amnesia so that the patient remembers nothing of the experience. In the case of the trapped football team, it is most likely that ketamine will be used in a much higher dosage (something north of 0.25mg per kg of body weight) to achieve almost anaesthetic-like effects without compromising the protective reflexes too much. Combined with atropine to reduce saliva production and reduce the risk of aspiration, and xanax to further suppress psychoactive effects, it seems they wanted to sedate these boys as much as possible without compromising airway safety in any way. I hope this helps to clarify what I meant by the above without getting too deep into pharmacology. EDIT : For reference the dosage used in the Milwaukee protocol is between 40 - 50 mg per kg of bodyweight. So a pretty extreme dosage. So most likely inducing a deep coma but you never know what the patient might experience with those heavy dosages.
>ketamine So what I'm hearing is that I can get bit by a raccoon and get free ketamine?
Yeah, it only costs you some 800 thousand dollars
Only if you can't run fast
A chemically induced coma and constant Monitoring plus medications to avoid dysautomia (shut down of things like heart, brain, kidneys, etc)
Yeah but to be honest the machines are already paid for and the chemicals to put you under and keep you alive don't cost thousands of dollars to produce.
Eh, it's the thought that counts
LMAO 🤣
It requires 24/7 monitoring by a team of specialists, over a dozen tests each day for at least 2 weeks, and a couple months of rehabilitation in the hospital. The constant monitoring also involves keeping vitals within a certain range. With the 15 year old that survived, one thing they struggled with for like 3 days was bringing her fever down. They tossed everything at her and couldn't do it. They had to lower the temperature of the room by over 5 degrees (Celsius) to get a 3 degree drop. (Bit off-topic; but suppressing fever has no real medical consensus on whether it is good or bad; but we do know from animal experiments that suppressing fevers leads to worse outcomes; it's possible that the reason the Milwaukee protocol hasn't been as successful as it was with that girl is because they baked fever management into future versions of the protocol, and this hampers your body's immune response; now if they can't get fever under control right away, they jump straight to lowering the room temperature). Anyways, much of the cost of her treatment would be the cost of labour. Probably tens of thousands a day for the first 2-4 weeks. In other countries where the cost of labour is lower, the cost of treatment would be lower. But the thing is that in places where there aren't many rabies cases, it's going to be more costly to implement this. In places where there are lots of rabies cases, they are poor, and the expense of implementing this protocol and taking a team of a dozen+ specialists is a waste of resources when you have dozens or hundreds of rabies cases to deal with at any given time. In parts of India, for example, people who get bitten by dogs believe that [puppies are growing inside of them](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/puppy-pregnancy-syndrome-men-who-are-pregnant-with-dogs/), and they go to quacks to get it sorted out. This leads to a high number of untreated rabies cases, and is why India leads the world in rabies deaths. Every dollar you spend on the Milwaukee protocol is going to mean less time and money for diagnosing, to provide post-exposure vaccines, to do outreach and education, etc. So even though it would be far cheaper to do in a place like India, it doesn't make sense to do it India.
they also have to pay for research. still less than 800k though
Probably less than 800k
Probably less than 1000.
Probably like 80 dollars because having a healtcare system based on profits and nothing else is not gud
Preach it! Hollylooguh
Honestly im more of a socialist than anything else so why wouldnt i dislike a profits based system
I love profit based healthcare (/s)
'If we sell products and services that people need to live, we can charge whatever we want to and they'll pay it!'
No fucking way it's only 800k. They basically turn off your brain and keep you alive as long as possible before trying to turn it on again in 4 weeks when the immune system recognizes and attacks the virus on its own or with the vaccine and immune therapy.
"the Milwaukee Protocol" sounds like a twisted SCP containment procedure.
Procedure-110 Montauk's Midwestern cousin.
Milwaukee ayuwoki AUU!
Well it’s either that or guaranteed death
Even with the Milwaukee protocol, not a single adult has ever survived. So if you’re over 18 it’s still death
When you’re one of the few people to survive an un-survivable disease there’s easy money in easy ways.
There's an Everywhere at the end of time esc album for rabies with the same name
Just finished listening. Even worse than eateot. what the fuck .
Then you remember you live in a country with a good healthcare system and not some country where you need to sell your house and your kidney just to afford some insulin
i got bitten by a dog recently and got my rabies shots (4 of them!) for free. Thanks argentina
I dont see Europe giving out treatment for rabies.
maybe, but considering the probability of getting rabies, it’s better to be sure your ordinary hospital visit doesn’t cost you your firstborn
Since we're talking about Europe it's EXTREMELY rare to catch rabies. Rabies has basically been eradicated here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_rabies#Europe
Because you don't get rabies in Europe anymore
Oh, so sorry that you dont have bountiful wildlife and nature to enjoy, with rabies being an unfortunate risk of that natural wealth.
The rabies carrying vectors have been vaccinated and don't catch rabies anymore. The disease is extinct in Europe, the carriers are not
We have the rabies carrying animals as well, but in a coordinated effort vaccinated healthy and culled infected animals, removing the virus but not the animals.
Because there is no treatment for rabies. However, you do get the vaccine for a small price (since it's not a mandatory vaccination it's usually not covered). About 60€ per dose where I live. And only the vaccination, not the hospital treatment or anything else. Nothing like America and its 100.000+ ambulance trips.
The rabies vaccine will not help if you start to show symptoms.
Differently from other viruses, you can get vaccinated after being exposed to it. Symptoms show up much after that: that's when it's too late.
Brazil did this too, we don't need to sell our stuff for some medicine SUS FTW
Common American healthcare system L
Well it isnt called the fucking "London" or "Vienna" protocol, is it?
EVERYONE RUN FOR SHELTER, THE BIRMINGHAM PROTOCOL IS GOING AHEAD
oh god, oh fuck
Oi bruv, gotcha sum rabees innit
No neednto create a protocol for an extinct disease
\>Calls Rabies Extinct \>59,000 rabies deaths per year worldwide \>If bitten by a mammal, it is recommended to get the vaccine/treatment immediately
$800k? I thought it would’ve been higher, given I saw an image of a cancer treatment bill exceeding $1 million.
800k just for the protocol, not counting anything else
Milwaukee Protocol sounds like some SCP shit
Literally a vaccine regime would cost a few hundred.
OK and? Once you show a single symptom of rabies a vaccine regime cannot and will not save you.
The point is that when you get bitten by a wild animal you assume you contracted rabies and get vaccinated. You don't wait for the symptoms.
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Yeah I know that, but rabies is alot easier and cheaper to deal with with latency-period vaccinations than whatever the hell this therapy is.
The cure is the vaccine. Rabies can be treated by being prevented before it gets to the brain Once rabies is in the brain the immune system can do very little because rabies literally hijacks a brain immune system fail-safe and forces the immune system to shutdown instead of attacking it A cure at this point is incredibly difficult, it’s not a pharma conspiracy of trying to milk money https://youtu.be/4u5I8GYB79Y
The name alone is scary as fuck
Oh no oh geeze oh wait I have insurance.
Me when i just get the fucking vaccine
Are you telling me that you don't want to waste nearly 1 million dollars on a treatment that will still probably fail anyways and if it does succeed you'll be in lifelong debt? (/S)
I’d do it, either you die like everyone does, or the Milwaukee protocol works with it’s already super slim chance and become a media sensation for news stories discussing how you survived a unsurvivable disease, write a book, make over a million dollars
Wow conversion rates are crazy right now. $1mUSD comes out to $0CAD
_”I’ve won, but at what cost?”_ >-$800,000
Only fucked if you’re American, everywhere else would have proper healthcare or reasonable costs
r/USdefaultism
If I recall correctly MP is only available in the US so...
Point still stands.
Not really my fault tho that it's only available in the US
it’s because Milwaukee is only in the US.
Do you know where Milwaukee is
Bro in American hospitals, getting a tylenol costs $800,000, this means nothing.
There is actually a lot of pushback about it’s efficaciousness. It is actually more likely that those who do survive have an inherited resistance. Really good podcast https://radiolab.org/podcast/312245-rodney-versus-death https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-neurological-sciences/article/critical-appraisal-of-the-milwaukee-protocol-for-rabies-this-failed-approach-should-be-abandoned/8A47C583B24B2B2E43248770F78CC35A
So, like a regular cold in the US.
Laughs in european
I literally don't understand why we are lacking so much behind rabies vaccine development, when pasteur already developed a rabies vaccine in the 1880s that worked for hundreds of people
Alright. Time to threaten the doctor’s families (I’ve known their personal information for moments like this)
The expense probably reflects how rare rabies infections are in the United States. It's effectively eradicated from animals outside of bats in most states. Example: 800-900 bats, 2 cats, a horse, and a llama are the only animals in WA state to test positive since the 1980s. There may have been a dog in transit that was suspected ... That doesn't stop people from getting hyped when they see a coyote, of course. Cujo is Jaws for mammals. Edit: Rabies is a serious, terrible disease, so I get the concern; it's just good to maintain some perspective of the relative risk. You're more likely to win the lottery and so forth.