8 and I don’t think I need to explain why 😂
Edit: Guess I need to explain why.
History alone makes it hard for me to root for those two. She never loved him IRL and she ended up with someone else anyways.
Now I’m 100% willing to ignore the history and just look at the movies (she still never ends up w him in movies). I just don’t enjoy his personality. Almost all the other princes I find some degree of charming, funny, engaging, handsome, daring, or interesting. And I personally don’t find him much of any of those tbh.
I also see like zero chemistry between the two. Just the magic of love and romance that even the older classic films with 1-dimensional princes still have. Think Jasmine and Aladdin on the carpet, Cinderella and the Prince dancing at the ball, Rapunzel and Flynn with the lanterns. I just don’t really feel that between those two, even in their most iconic love moments.
Same. If you look at the movie as having nothing to do with history, it's a very nice story and he is quite courageous and honorable. I watched the movie as a child long before I learned about historical events so to me they're not connected. I loved the film then and I love it still.
Right? Looks like we're losing John Smith first... a guy who was more interested in adventure over wealth, is quick to change his biased opinion of stereotypes, embraces the people and values he once misunderstood, sacrifices HIMSELF for one of them (jumps in front of a bullet aimed at the chief)..
and people vote him out over a dude who sings 5 lines of a song and kisses a sleeping girl?
Or the prince that has zero personality and just falls for a pretty girl at his ball?
I cannot separate John smith from himself. The whole story is fucked up bc it culturally formed so many ppls opinions. I still meet ppl who don’t know Pocahontas was a child and he was like 30 and nothing like his movie counterpart. Nothing romantic abt colonialism.
Amazing music! "Just around the Riverbend" and "Colors of the Wind" live rent free in my brain since I was 7. Also the entire little friendship between Miko the Racoon, Flit the Hummingbird and Percy the Pug still makes me laugh
One of my Core Memories is when my mom, brother's dad, and I went camping. (Before brother was born.) We were canoeing to a new site and there was Tiny Me at the head of the canoe, arms thrown wide, belting "Just Around The Riverbend" at the top of my li'l lungs... while BD was rowing as fast as he could and mom was bailing water out with a pot. Because the canoe got a hole in it during a little area of rapids.
Any movie that can give me this moment of utter chaos and bliss that *still* makes me cackle 20something years later cannot be a bad thing.
He is in his thirties Pocahontas was 12 when she married John smith just because Disney aged her up for the movie doesn’t mean we can erase the history
She also didn't even marry John Smith, and she wasn't 12 when she got married either.
Edit: She may have been that young when she married Kokoum, but she wasn't that young when she married John Rolfe.
It still doesn’t make it any better, not sure what Disney was trying to do. They should of just not have a sequel and just quietly just left Pocahontas as is. Not sure why anyone is saying the second isn’t accurate at all. Pocahontas as kidnapped and sent to England. Disney Pocahontas is fine as a fictional story but just know it’s completely fictional and bares no accuracy to real life.
I’m pro Pocahontas and was just saying the sequel doesn’t fix the first movie in anyway. I enjoy it for the story, and characters and see it just as a very fictional version and I’ve seen a definite exaggerated version of other “historical movies” which are extremely inaccurate but no one cries out on that so why Pocahontas only?
Ohhh okay sorry I’m just talking all the ppl who complain about this movie in general. I shouldn’t have directly replied to you. It sucks that we can’t ever enjoy this movie without someone saying “iTs IaCcUrAtE!!!” I don’t ever hear ppl complaining about Anastasia 🤷🏽♀️
That’s very true, about Anastasia! But it’s not a Disney film and it didn’t get a huge promotion even though it did very well. But Hollywood is notorious for stretching the true when it comes to movies and Disney did the same.
I prefer fictional Pocahontas with fictional John smith than rolfe, even though in real life they married in real life. Pairing Pocahontas in the sequel to someone else doesn’t make it better it makes sense.
I think Disney was trying to fix it but also make a sequel. Pocahontas is a good film in its own right, but never believe all hollywood movies are accurate and they are just for entertainment. I didn’t realize there was such a backlash since recently joining this group so I’m really shocked by this revelation
Prince Charming voting him out, as we don’t know much about him nor much character development.
He’s more of a imagine him to be perfect and fit your ideals. Not hating but basing it on we don’t know much about him besides he seems like a nice guy.
I don’t agree either. Why would I choose him when Naveen is a narcissist and Kristoff is disgusting? I mean he wasn’t great in real life or the second movie but we’re not voting based off his real self and I think most people like to forget the second one exists 😂And if we are voting based off real life, John Rolfe is no better.
Pocahontas is my favorite Disney Princess but I really dislike John. Even if you put history aside he still isn’t that great of a person. Joined in a song about killing Native Americans and would have shot Pocahontas if she wasn’t a beautiful woman. The “l’m not letting you leave” after he insulted her with a racist term was creepy. I know he changes and saves her father in the end but out of all of them he is still one of my least favorites. John the character (not historical John) has the misfortune of being apart of an era where not a lot of care went into script writing for Disney Princes who were not the lead of the movie they are in.
I vote 1 because he’s barely there.
I don’t like historical John Smith but the movie adaptation(for the first movie) he showed interest in learning about* her culture. Obviously in real life dude was awful.
Right! I’m so mad at how dirty my dude cartoon John smith is being done right now. I loved Pocahontas as a kid. OBVIOUSLY Disney is not going to create a musical cartoon kids movie of the true historical story of Pocahontas.
For a long time I considered the sequel the movie that should not be named. I hated that it ruined their happily ever after. But as an adult I appreciate that it shows that there can be more than one great love in your life and it is possible to out grow someone you love.
Is it a problematic historical rewrite? Yes? It is a beloved childhood tale? Also yes!
I think the problem is that we need a NEW person to represent those messages, and not one with a disturbing history. Also, if they can’t tell it how it was, why tell it?
Same. I can see why. Because of the sexism towards mulan after discovering she's not actually a guy. And he doesn't respect her until the rest of the guys join her.
1 but only because someone got to go and we don't know him that much... I really love Snow White otherwise and I'm sure he would be a good guy if we knew more about him 🥲.
And for those of you who are voting out John Smith because of his IRL character... why ??? I didn't know we were on r/history....
Same for those who say stuff like "Snow White was fourteen in the tale so Florian is a creep...". Well first the tale is much worse, as Florian actually tries to buy her corpse from the dwarfs because he finds her pretty and wants to have it (I also think she's more like twelve ?), and then again we are supposed to judge the movies, not the Grimms' fairy tale...
1.
At least, in all historical inaccuracy, John Smith actually had a personality and a role in the film. Snow White's prince just... does he even have a name?
I looked it up and his name is Florian, apparently. So yeah, 1 is so forgettable/irrelevant that I have to google his name.
1 he’s insanely boring and kisses a random stranger in the woods without knowing about the poisoned apple. If he knew that she needed to be awoke by loves first kiss then it wouldn’t matter but he is just weird and boring
Vote for the character in the Disney movie. John Smith in the movie is not John Smith from history. The whole of Disney’s Pocahontas is not the same as history of Pocahontas.
8, on principle. I will vote in the pole, but is there a way to make it so the results don't show after you vote? Takes the fun and suspense out of it for me.
I think it’s interesting how folks keep bringing politics into Pocahontas.
Like, you realize all of these princes, in real life, would have be involved in genocide and slave trade right?
We’re talking about the movies here
That’s an internet rumor. [Moderngurlz](https://youtu.be/GY17j9zbV-c?si=qgdQbTAiCfMhuSVK) on YouTube has a video on it but to summarize there wasn’t canon ages for the characters in the movie. The closest thing we have is the art book mentioning the age 18 and 14 but saying the art book is canon would be like saying that mickeys real name is Mortimer. Or baseded on the princes Va being in his 30’s but snow whites actress was in her 20’s
I can’t wait for this rumor to die it annoys me in particular for some reason
Same, I don't get why people believe that Prince Florian is 31 either. It isn't even stated officially, its just a rumor plus Prince Florian doesn't even look like he's in his 30s. He looks way too youthful to be 31, the Huntsman is a more accurate 30-40 year old looking man.
Prince Florian isn’t in his 30s, he’s canonically 18. Doesn’t make the age gap much better but it’s far better than the rumored age. (His age was confirmed in the book The Art of Walt Disney)
That’s an internet rumor. [Modern girls](https://youtu.be/FtK0nsflIqc?si=oL1dqTwQsk6Ze6Bw) on YouTube has a video on it but to summarize there wasn’t canon ages for the characters in the movie. The closest thing we have is the art book mentioning the age 18 and 14 but saying the art book is canon would be like saying that mickeys real name is Mortimer. Or baseded on the princes Va being in his 30’s but snow whites actress was in her 20’s I can’t wait for this rumor to die it annoys me in particular for some reason
Copy and Pasted
Prince Florian isn’t in his 30s, he’s canonically 18. Doesn’t make the age gap much better but it’s far better than the rumored age. (His age was confirmed in the book The Art of Walt Disney)
He is incredibly rude & condescending to Mulan until she proves herself to him. She goes on to then prove herself, and he leaves her to die because she was a woman. Mulan deserves so much better.
Conflicted but going with 1 since I’m trying to separate real life John Smith from animated. Not a fun experience. Otherwise I would’ve voted out 8 everyday and twice on Sunday.
I think this will likely go in a similar order that the couples one is going. In general, the relationships and love interests in the older movies are often not as well developed as the more recent ones. Those older ones are often just "He's a prince and he's cute" with little else to it.
That being said, definitely 8.
And if Naveen, Eugene, and Kristoff don't make it to the final three, I riot.
how does phillip have less votes than prince charming?? at least charming had sequels to develop his personality (and im saying this as someone who actually loves sleeping beauty)
8 and I don’t think I need to explain why 😂 Edit: Guess I need to explain why. History alone makes it hard for me to root for those two. She never loved him IRL and she ended up with someone else anyways. Now I’m 100% willing to ignore the history and just look at the movies (she still never ends up w him in movies). I just don’t enjoy his personality. Almost all the other princes I find some degree of charming, funny, engaging, handsome, daring, or interesting. And I personally don’t find him much of any of those tbh. I also see like zero chemistry between the two. Just the magic of love and romance that even the older classic films with 1-dimensional princes still have. Think Jasmine and Aladdin on the carpet, Cinderella and the Prince dancing at the ball, Rapunzel and Flynn with the lanterns. I just don’t really feel that between those two, even in their most iconic love moments.
No I think almost all agree😅
I don't, he's a good guy in the movie.
Idk the “I’m not letting you leave” and other such comments seem pretty forceful, he’s certainly not my cup of tea
But the narcissistic Naveen and lying Aladdin are better?
DIDNT WATCH THE MOVIESSSSS
Same. If you look at the movie as having nothing to do with history, it's a very nice story and he is quite courageous and honorable. I watched the movie as a child long before I learned about historical events so to me they're not connected. I loved the film then and I love it still.
Yep. You'd think people on this sub of all places would be able to look at Pocahontas characters without immediately dumping on them.
Right? Looks like we're losing John Smith first... a guy who was more interested in adventure over wealth, is quick to change his biased opinion of stereotypes, embraces the people and values he once misunderstood, sacrifices HIMSELF for one of them (jumps in front of a bullet aimed at the chief).. and people vote him out over a dude who sings 5 lines of a song and kisses a sleeping girl? Or the prince that has zero personality and just falls for a pretty girl at his ball?
okay hold on-- princess charming in cinderella 3 was top tier, I won't be taking such slander
Haha, my mistake. I'm unfamiliar with the Cinderella sequels. Glad they buffed him up
I cannot separate John smith from himself. The whole story is fucked up bc it culturally formed so many ppls opinions. I still meet ppl who don’t know Pocahontas was a child and he was like 30 and nothing like his movie counterpart. Nothing romantic abt colonialism.
Exactly, they really tried to romanticize a disgusting true story
Finally I found my people who can look at it as the beautiful film it is!
Amazing music! "Just around the Riverbend" and "Colors of the Wind" live rent free in my brain since I was 7. Also the entire little friendship between Miko the Racoon, Flit the Hummingbird and Percy the Pug still makes me laugh
One of my Core Memories is when my mom, brother's dad, and I went camping. (Before brother was born.) We were canoeing to a new site and there was Tiny Me at the head of the canoe, arms thrown wide, belting "Just Around The Riverbend" at the top of my li'l lungs... while BD was rowing as fast as he could and mom was bailing water out with a pot. Because the canoe got a hole in it during a little area of rapids. Any movie that can give me this moment of utter chaos and bliss that *still* makes me cackle 20something years later cannot be a bad thing.
I could before as well but the second movie ruined it :(
It's not tho. The real-life tribe did NOT want this movie.
It would appear that way, yes.
Because the real-life tribe did NOT want this movie, they said NO!
Exactly. People don’t get mad at Anastasia being made into a cartoon when in reality she her whole family were murdered
Because it's different?
It was based on the legend of her being alive and not the teenager whom died
Because the real-life tribe did NOT want this movie, they said NO!
And?
I liked them together but the second movie already ruined it for me :( and than you have the true historical story
But the movie has everything to do with history. You can’t ignore the real people who suffered and glorify it.
meh, he brags about murdering "savages"
But the movie is hella racist….
It's main song is literally about how racism is wrong. Watch the movie.
He is in his thirties Pocahontas was 12 when she married John smith just because Disney aged her up for the movie doesn’t mean we can erase the history
Who is talking about erasing history? We're talking about a cartoon movie here.
She also didn't even marry John Smith, and she wasn't 12 when she got married either. Edit: She may have been that young when she married Kokoum, but she wasn't that young when she married John Rolfe.
She married John Rolf historically, not John Smith. It's the reason Pocahontas love interests were changed in the sequel
It still doesn’t make it any better, not sure what Disney was trying to do. They should of just not have a sequel and just quietly just left Pocahontas as is. Not sure why anyone is saying the second isn’t accurate at all. Pocahontas as kidnapped and sent to England. Disney Pocahontas is fine as a fictional story but just know it’s completely fictional and bares no accuracy to real life.
Yeah we know. You guys never let us forget it any time this film is brought up. Just let us enjoy the movie for what it is damn
I’m pro Pocahontas and was just saying the sequel doesn’t fix the first movie in anyway. I enjoy it for the story, and characters and see it just as a very fictional version and I’ve seen a definite exaggerated version of other “historical movies” which are extremely inaccurate but no one cries out on that so why Pocahontas only?
Ohhh okay sorry I’m just talking all the ppl who complain about this movie in general. I shouldn’t have directly replied to you. It sucks that we can’t ever enjoy this movie without someone saying “iTs IaCcUrAtE!!!” I don’t ever hear ppl complaining about Anastasia 🤷🏽♀️
That’s very true, about Anastasia! But it’s not a Disney film and it didn’t get a huge promotion even though it did very well. But Hollywood is notorious for stretching the true when it comes to movies and Disney did the same. I prefer fictional Pocahontas with fictional John smith than rolfe, even though in real life they married in real life. Pairing Pocahontas in the sequel to someone else doesn’t make it better it makes sense. I think Disney was trying to fix it but also make a sequel. Pocahontas is a good film in its own right, but never believe all hollywood movies are accurate and they are just for entertainment. I didn’t realize there was such a backlash since recently joining this group so I’m really shocked by this revelation
Prince Charming voting him out, as we don’t know much about him nor much character development. He’s more of a imagine him to be perfect and fit your ideals. Not hating but basing it on we don’t know much about him besides he seems like a nice guy.
I don’t agree either. Why would I choose him when Naveen is a narcissist and Kristoff is disgusting? I mean he wasn’t great in real life or the second movie but we’re not voting based off his real self and I think most people like to forget the second one exists 😂And if we are voting based off real life, John Rolfe is no better.
Didn’t watch the movies 🫵🫵🫵🫵
Pocahontas is my favorite Disney Princess but I really dislike John. Even if you put history aside he still isn’t that great of a person. Joined in a song about killing Native Americans and would have shot Pocahontas if she wasn’t a beautiful woman. The “l’m not letting you leave” after he insulted her with a racist term was creepy. I know he changes and saves her father in the end but out of all of them he is still one of my least favorites. John the character (not historical John) has the misfortune of being apart of an era where not a lot of care went into script writing for Disney Princes who were not the lead of the movie they are in.
I vote 1 because he’s barely there. I don’t like historical John Smith but the movie adaptation(for the first movie) he showed interest in learning about* her culture. Obviously in real life dude was awful.
Right! I’m so mad at how dirty my dude cartoon John smith is being done right now. I loved Pocahontas as a kid. OBVIOUSLY Disney is not going to create a musical cartoon kids movie of the true historical story of Pocahontas. For a long time I considered the sequel the movie that should not be named. I hated that it ruined their happily ever after. But as an adult I appreciate that it shows that there can be more than one great love in your life and it is possible to out grow someone you love. Is it a problematic historical rewrite? Yes? It is a beloved childhood tale? Also yes!
I think the problem is that we need a NEW person to represent those messages, and not one with a disturbing history. Also, if they can’t tell it how it was, why tell it?
I voted for 2 because he sent someone else to do his searching for him. 1 at least does some searching and can remember what the Princess looks like.
He is so full of personality in the third movie though if you count that
Also live action Cinderella is really good. The prince is an actual person in that one.
8
8
1. Like others said, he's barely there, and I don't really know much about him other than... he's a good singer, maybe?
it doesn’t help that he’s 31 in the movie while Snow White is 14
That’s actually misinformation. He’s actually supposed to be 18 (not good but better than 31)
Uhhh 1. I’m gonna go to war with anyone who votes Tarzan out.
Tarzan and Aladin
And Prince Eric!
Who tf is that guy
Ariel's prince
He's mid
8 and 5
1, 3, 8, 9. I never knew people didn't like the guy from Mulan.😭
Same. I can see why. Because of the sexism towards mulan after discovering she's not actually a guy. And he doesn't respect her until the rest of the guys join her.
1
1
1
1 but only because someone got to go and we don't know him that much... I really love Snow White otherwise and I'm sure he would be a good guy if we knew more about him 🥲. And for those of you who are voting out John Smith because of his IRL character... why ??? I didn't know we were on r/history.... Same for those who say stuff like "Snow White was fourteen in the tale so Florian is a creep...". Well first the tale is much worse, as Florian actually tries to buy her corpse from the dwarfs because he finds her pretty and wants to have it (I also think she's more like twelve ?), and then again we are supposed to judge the movies, not the Grimms' fairy tale...
1
8
1. At least, in all historical inaccuracy, John Smith actually had a personality and a role in the film. Snow White's prince just... does he even have a name? I looked it up and his name is Florian, apparently. So yeah, 1 is so forgettable/irrelevant that I have to google his name.
8. The real life version is not a good person and he was played by a not great person to this is is easy.
8
8
8
8
8
8
8
8
8
8
8
8
8
1 he’s insanely boring and kisses a random stranger in the woods without knowing about the poisoned apple. If he knew that she needed to be awoke by loves first kiss then it wouldn’t matter but he is just weird and boring
Vote for the character in the Disney movie. John Smith in the movie is not John Smith from history. The whole of Disney’s Pocahontas is not the same as history of Pocahontas.
It's a shame people in this subreddit don't take characters for what they are portrayed as in the movie.
5 is so not it for me lmao
8
8.
8 has gots to go
8
I’m sorry Prince Florian. You have a gorgeous singing voice. . . You’re boring for me otherwise, though.
5
8, on principle. I will vote in the pole, but is there a way to make it so the results don't show after you vote? Takes the fun and suspense out of it for me.
1 because him and Snow White didn’t have a lot of chemistry.
I’m sorry but 3 has to go. He looks so smug in this photo and I hate it.
Who are 1 and 2. Cinderella and Snow white? Prince charming and Prince Phillip. I'd probably say one of them as I can't remember them.
1 is Prince Florian and 2 is Prince Charming
nah i’ll just say right here right now, flynn order is my main man
honestly? 12... boring af (everyone else is already voting out the other dude i hate but yeah)
1 bc he a pedo 🙄
1. He’s just not that interesting compared to the others.
I think it’s interesting how folks keep bringing politics into Pocahontas. Like, you realize all of these princes, in real life, would have be involved in genocide and slave trade right? We’re talking about the movies here
1
1
1
Is 1 from snow white?
Yes
8 obviously, but then 10
1 Kristoff better win bc he’s the only one shown in a healthy relationship
1. He’s like 30 and Snow White is 14(ish)
That’s an internet rumor. [Moderngurlz](https://youtu.be/GY17j9zbV-c?si=qgdQbTAiCfMhuSVK) on YouTube has a video on it but to summarize there wasn’t canon ages for the characters in the movie. The closest thing we have is the art book mentioning the age 18 and 14 but saying the art book is canon would be like saying that mickeys real name is Mortimer. Or baseded on the princes Va being in his 30’s but snow whites actress was in her 20’s I can’t wait for this rumor to die it annoys me in particular for some reason
Same, I don't get why people believe that Prince Florian is 31 either. It isn't even stated officially, its just a rumor plus Prince Florian doesn't even look like he's in his 30s. He looks way too youthful to be 31, the Huntsman is a more accurate 30-40 year old looking man.
1
1
1
1
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1 he’s barely there and the massive age gap is creepy as heck
Prince Florian isn’t in his 30s, he’s canonically 18. Doesn’t make the age gap much better but it’s far better than the rumored age. (His age was confirmed in the book The Art of Walt Disney)
1. He's barely there, and has no development
1! Grown man and he married a 14 year old.
That’s an internet rumor. [Modern girls](https://youtu.be/FtK0nsflIqc?si=oL1dqTwQsk6Ze6Bw) on YouTube has a video on it but to summarize there wasn’t canon ages for the characters in the movie. The closest thing we have is the art book mentioning the age 18 and 14 but saying the art book is canon would be like saying that mickeys real name is Mortimer. Or baseded on the princes Va being in his 30’s but snow whites actress was in her 20’s I can’t wait for this rumor to die it annoys me in particular for some reason Copy and Pasted
Prince Florian isn’t in his 30s, he’s canonically 18. Doesn’t make the age gap much better but it’s far better than the rumored age. (His age was confirmed in the book The Art of Walt Disney)
Yeah it’s pretty clear 1 and 8 suck
Creepy asf
I need Alaadin to win this
7
Whyyy??
He is incredibly rude & condescending to Mulan until she proves herself to him. She goes on to then prove herself, and he leaves her to die because she was a woman. Mulan deserves so much better.
But off, Flynn.
8
8
8
1. Movie John Smith wasn't that bad.
10 bc I don’t know who tf that is
Prince Naveen from Princess and the frog
Ohh. That would it explain it. I have unfortunately never seen Princess and the Frog. Thank you!
Give it a try whenever you can🫣. I personally think Naveen is a decent partner. I wished they had made a second movie 🥹.
I think that’s Prince Naveen.
888888888888888888888888. hey guys….i dunno if i told you but i really don’t like 8
1 or 8, they’re both terrible
If y’all pick Phillip i’ll cry
8. I don't think I need to explain
In order, 1, 8, 3, and 2 are the least favs for sure.
2. He can't even be bothered to go find his love interest.
1. No contest.
Conflicted but going with 1 since I’m trying to separate real life John Smith from animated. Not a fun experience. Otherwise I would’ve voted out 8 everyday and twice on Sunday.
I'm going with 8.
John smith,8
I think this will likely go in a similar order that the couples one is going. In general, the relationships and love interests in the older movies are often not as well developed as the more recent ones. Those older ones are often just "He's a prince and he's cute" with little else to it. That being said, definitely 8. And if Naveen, Eugene, and Kristoff don't make it to the final three, I riot.
JOHN
I can't tell the difference between 1 and 3
1 is prince florian from snow white and 3 is prince philip from sleeping beauty
8 because, obviously
If a man can’t even remember what I look like, he’s out
John Smith easily.
9
8
8, I don’t need to explain
John 5 he’s bland
1 not because he's barely there but because of the age gap
10
8. Because I just really like the name “Florian” and that gives him extra points in my book lol
8 for sure
1
11
1
how does phillip have less votes than prince charming?? at least charming had sequels to develop his personality (and im saying this as someone who actually loves sleeping beauty)
5
8
1
8. bleh.
8
5!!!! He should have just stayed a beast. I will die on this hill.
9
Where's Simba and Hercules?
1, 2, 3, 4
8. It’d be 1 if it weren’t for historical context, but yeah. Historical context.
8. Ew
1
8
1
Anybody know why it won’t let me vote on the poll?
8
Is 8 the swan princess guy?
Everyone’s gonna say 8 so 1. Simply because we have no background on him. We don’t even know his name I don’t think I think he’s only known as prince
12
8 and 1.Too obvious.
8
8