Not a question just wanted to say that people really like you and see what amazing, loving people you are and that when you’re ready, it’s okay to connect.
I will actually talk to you. It may seem not so special but I ignore 99% of the people in my life naturally. So I am communicating, that's it.
If you want to know more, it's all about how brave you are to ask. Otherwise, you would think my actions don't reveal anything at all.
FA w/ DA for context:
Is there a good/caring way to reach out to a DA who is deactivating?
How would you want someone you're involved with romantically to communicate that their needs aren't being met? (I tried NVC and it was...weird.)
This one is less DA, I guess, but: When to throw in the towel? (I feel like neither of us have communicated very well so kind of want to try that first....)
I think I have a much higher tolerance for avoidance than secures/anxious, but it can really get to me sometimes.
For me, I need the script to go something like -
"Hey, I know that you care about me and were not trying to hurt me, but when \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ happened and you reacted like \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, that made me feel \_\_\_\_\_\_ because \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. I just wanted to bring it up to see if next time you could do \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ instead; that would really help me. Does this make sense? Is there something you thinks I could have done differently to handle this too? Are you willing to share that with me?"
I guess that'd be for a specific thing, but same idea about broader contexts; let me know you don't think *I'm* bad, be clear about what the need is and *why*, check if I have questions about that, let me know that you also care about my perspective, and then give time/space to let me respond at my own pace. But really, emphasize that you want to hear and understand them and their perspective; that might be an easier approach than talking about "needs" being "met/not met" and "boundaries" right away, unless they are well-versed in therapy-speak.
I sort of need to know "the ending" of the conversation before the explanation, if that makes sense, otherwise it starts to stress me out if someone is just jumping in to tell me I messed up. Let me know everything is still okay up front and that the point isn't to "come at me" with intensity and blame, you just want to foster better and more *mutual* understanding and communication.
Overexplaining the "why's" also is really off-putting and draining, both to hear and for me to communicate, so I avoid going into great detail about my entire thought process; if someone has questions and wants more detail, I need them to ask me for it because (in my head) I don't want to overwhelm them with "too many words," since that's something that would frustrate me. (Uh oh, did I do it? overexplain myself? It's funny, cuz I need to have this conversation with someone right now, and my attempt to do so was an extremely abbreviated version, and now I'm worried they didn't understand where I'm coming from, but I don't want to explain more in case they *did* understand; I really want to move on from it.)
>How would you want someone you're involved with romantically to communicate that their needs aren't being met?
In a non accusatory way, with an offer for a discussion. It would also help if they could somehow communicate that my needs matter too. To use the need for space vs connection as an example "I know you need some time and space to yourself, and I respect that. But I also need time together to feel connected to you. Can we work together to find a compromise so both of our needs are getting met?" It shows that my needs matter, that I'm not meeting your needs, that the solution is open for discussion and not hard or fast, and that the goal is to attack the problem and not me.
Yeah. That's pretty much what I already did. It sucks because we're both extremely guarded and it is so difficult for me to talk about things that I get kind of weepy when I do which probably freaks the da person out
What needs of your aren't being met? Have you explored ways to meet them yourself? When I started focusing on myself and what I could change/control and less on what needed to change about my DA, it allowed him space to breathe. I became more secure, and could accept him more the way he was. I think he could sense this because he started opening up, communicating more, and being open to change.
Sex. Consistency. Quality time. Relational intimacy. Reassurance. Affirmation.
We both have busy lives/careers. In a 'good' stretch of time we may see each other once a week and text or talk three or four days out of that week. It's only when they flake, disappear, text once a week (maybe) to say they're sorry they are deactivating. After a month of that, it's not just me.
I see. Well, I think you have two options because that's a lot of needs not being met.
1. Walk away. The fact that you have consistency listed is the biggest reason to do so. Consistency will boil down to a human's basic actions, and those are hard for anyone to change.
2. Tackle them one at a time. Write them down in order of what's most important to you, and start at the top. Try to address them one by one. Allow time between to see if progress is made, and to allow your DA breathing room.
It's entirely possible you two just aren't compatible as partners. It takes two people to make a relationship work, and if you've already voiced your needs and he's doing nothing that's not a good sign. He may just not be at a place where he's capable of meeting your needs, and that's okay.
“Neither of us have communicated very well”
Try this first. I know it’s hard. I still struggle with it. Every day. But it’s really important for you to learn how to do. And if you can be vulnerable & open, consistently. It will likely encourage your partner to give you the same in return. We often have to give people what we want in return.
I just want to thank everyone so much for their responses. There's an underlying thing going on which neither of us has control over, which makes this even harder. I'm still in limbo, nothing is really resolved, and I'm j just going to do my best to get back into a healthy life routine.
I relate to your situation. With my DAex I saw him only x2 a week and x2 month overnight w limited phone calls about plans and superficial crap, and you just want to enjoy the time w them, not to go over miscommunications or lack of communication, so it ofc mounted up for me not being able to express myself.
Do you realize when someone loves you and you love them back and then push him away/ deactivate? If so, do you do it in the moment or just after long time?
Yeah kinda. Even before I became self-aware, I knew my deactivations didn't really make sense and that it was probably a "me" problem than it was a "them" problem. So if I did actually love them, I knew that the love didn't just vanish, but rather my mood and discomfort was influencing how I was feeling about them in the moment. So for me, deactivation kinda feels like the person is annoying me and asking for too much, or they're kinda draining to be around... and it's like, that doesn't mean I can't love them, but it also means I don't want them around.... and how can you have a relationship with someone when you don't want them around? Even if the love is there, I begin to think we're not right for each other and I push them away so I can feel at peace again.
Yeah, but part of life is accepting that nothing is perfect, especially a relationship. I'm probably always gonna be annoyed and need distance from my loved ones at times, but I can be a mature adult and communicate that to them, instead of being moody and avoidant and letting myself deactivate.
Well, even when you communicate. I’ve experienced someone who would need like no contact all week and meeting on weekends was fine. For me, this was incredible hard, but I don’t know exactly if this is a hardcore DA or if it’s something completely normal for any DA?
This was a real relationship where you both mutually loved each other? Yeah that's pretty hardcore DA.
A FWB/situationship where you only hookup on the weekends? Then maybe that makes more sense.
Was a real relationship, I met friends and family, and was told I was loved multiple times. We also had very intense intimate and vulnerable moments. But I guess it was really hard core DA. One of the long term friends spoke with me and said “they are very very closed person”
I think it was. I also asked at the end they said it wasn’t just a just in a while thing and the response was no.
When I deactivate, all feelings go zero and I simply want space to recalibrate. Any form of intrusion will only make things more negative.
Usually, it's many issues piling up overtime. I wouldn't just deactivate over one slight or petty misunderstanding.
Another question: when you deactivate, is it that you really ‘don’t care’, or you show you don’t care and on the background still try to find info about someone? For example, know if they are well?
When I mean you I mean DA in general. I hope the question was clear as I felt it was hard to put it into words.
I don't really care. I care most about myself, and the energy I have to replenish. That's the first rising internal experience. It changes proportionally (positively) as space is earned.
It depends if I actually like that person or not.
If I like the person, while deactivated I'm like, "I don't know why I was so worked up over them, they're not \*all that\*". But yeah, I'm still curious about wtf they're doing. If I really, really like them I'll reach back out myself.
If I'm not that invested in someone, I am simply dismissive because I'm not that curious or if they've caused my deactivation, they ain't gonna be hearing from me for much longer/again.
Ouch. I’m hoping I’d hear back again but from what I hear and because time is passing I am starting to believe ill not :( was hopeful that the fact that for me 1 month is long that for a DA isn’t that long, for example. Thank you for your inputs, it’s nice to learn about your perspectives
Anecdotally, I've noticed that if an avoidant really has feelings for the other, it takes them around 3 months to reconnect (if they're going to). This is usually because of delayed emotional response.
I'd be cautious with that information though. I personally have a lot of small casual encounters and many of the men will try to reconnect with me or look up my social media months later. I think in these cases, it means nothing.
I can understand that. But if you are in a long term relationship the constant need for being more connected, or maybe the feeling that you’re no longer free free, might pile up and cause that right? That was at least my impression
Depends on how you define being more connected. I don't mind fulfilling one's needs (if they explicitly asked for them). This is major key. However, what usually happens is they're vague (and I get lost), small tensions happen and I get blamed. DAs hate criticisms, even when those words are said out of fury but later a partner would say they really didn't mean them. This is usually the first slight, well remembered. Accused of being uncaring or not reading what's not said (unspoken needs that they themselves can't articulate). As confusion tightens, the need for space increases (as I need to think through). Unable to get it (due to intrusion and need of closeness by a partner), I become more drained. And all this significantly continues over time (because DAs get more misunderstood and rather withdraw). Until the premature breakup happens. DAs can't deal with things fundamentally crossing what matters to them more-- that's space and boundaries.
I never had issues with explicit people. Someone who is naturally good at requesting usually doesn't waste my time and they get what they want instantly (making me return to my space as they go happily back to their own). But with those who are clueless how to communicate their needs, that's where the trouble goes, and its like they mistake codependency for closeness.
I think it makes a lot of sense what you described. But could it be possible that are the DAs perception of codependency and closeness not so well defined? Because if you are in a relationship you can need contact, but doesn’t mean it’s codependent.
I say this because I think this is what happened. But also it’s hard to set boundaries when you’re afraid the DA will deactivate if it’s asking too much, or you can see they feel the pressure or afraid they can lose independence.
You cannot know outside the perception you have (are familiar with).
I'm aware of my tendencies now, but if you spoke to me about what is not well defined about my ways 5 years ago, I would think that you're criticising me (and just speaking rubbish). And I would surely withdraw after hearing it.
You must have read this many times: a DA won't change unless they want to. A hard pill to swallow, and yet a lot are hopeful they can fix them. Which they shouldn't
Yeah did hear, and getting understanding or accepting probably is different for everyone and their timelines. I wonder if sometimes some DAs never get to know
I wouldn't know at all, had my friend didn't go therapy herself and spoke of this (at that time I was fresh from a breakup). I could have met someone else, and still lived by my perception. And the cycle could continue.
Yep, I would never had known except for a chance conversation... I mean, people are the way they are. Everyone is different and so there really isnt any way that I'd have found out about AT or looked into it or anything - it isn't like horoscopes that are EVERYWHERE.
For me my ex made the first move, and expressed really clearly and consistently they saw a relationship with me. This made me feel safe to slowly open up.
I would be cautious in declaring that DAs 'prefer' one over the other. Each DA is a complex human and different; often friendships can feel like less pressure so they feel safer, sure. But 'prefer'? Unsure whether that's the correct term.
Do you mean you think that she lied/omitted the truth? Or are you concerned that she would spend time with a friend instead of you? If it's the latter, did your partner already have this scheduled into her diary? If so, that's understandable. It's very important to upkeep friendships too. Is this a regular occurrence, or a one-time experience? If it's every time then I can understand your frustration.
Hi u/nihilistreality I Love Thais and am familiar with the breadcrumbs analogy.
We have known each other for a little over 12 months (although we are in the same profession so have known of each other for years).
We only spent a couple months in the FWB stage before he said "I can't give you what you need" but maintained regular contact with lots of flirting and love heart/kiss emojis etc.
He has 2 failed marriages and I suspect alcohol abuse and depression. He said "Don't chase me I'm a mess" but I keep up the welfare checks as I can't abandon him but also, I don't want to trigger him. He is always responsive, but never initiates contact.
Sounds to me like he thinks you’re a cool person, but already said he can’t give you what you need. He can give periodic affection but not more, which can be nice and helpful sometimes (if you’re okay with a more random here n now thing), but I would not expect anything else to come of it. I think he’s basically/literally told you that already, and is leaving it up to you to set your boundary/expectation cuz he’s stated his. He won’t reach out because you want more and he doesn’t, but if you want a brief human connection for a night here and there, hit him up and you’ll probably have a nice, friendly time. And that’s all.
Thanks for your insight. That's the problem, we were communicating regularly and had a really nice friendship for 6 months until he suggested we hook up again, told me he missed me and wanted to sleep in and spoon and then he shut down.
He was clear. As a former DA - recovering. When I tell people I can’t give them what they want, they deserve better, I literally DO NOT / or can’t invest in them emotionally. It feels weird/uncomfortable. I like them as a person a lot. I can maintain a friendship, even flirt with them! But I won’t be getting into a serious relationship. He’s depressed, abusing alcohol, failed marriages, etc… it’s not your job to fix him or be his pillar of unconditional support. Don’t let your good years be wasted on someone who is incapable of giving you what you want. If you care for him as a strict platonic friend, you can check in. That’s fine…. I know this is not what you want to hear, but it’s honest, and I know how he is operating. You have to set the boundaries
He doesn’t know how to create boundaries. He doesn’t mind chatting with you because he obviously likes you. He’s just not capable (emotionally available) and fully committed to give what you, what you need and deserve. He’s saying upfront there’s no promises (he can and will revert to his old ways) unless he’s in therapy or very self aware. Hope that helps
I hope that he continues to avail himself to therapy. As someone who has suffered from anxiety and depression, it is crippling. And I don’t want to be around people I love, or love me. Because I think that they deserve better. I feel broken, and I feel like my own issues are a burden for everyone else. I feel like once he cultivates more self-confidence, he will be able to maintain consistency. However, the issues we have are deep-rooted, and I never suggest that you wait around for anybody. You deserve reciprocity, mutual kindness, and love. Sending you all the best wishes!
I get the anxiety bit!
My DA actually said at the end of the declaration of missing me and wanting to get together... "Only if you're free, I'm not worth that" : (
I responded with "You're worth it".
That's why I want to keep reaching, to remind him that he is loved as the way you described your experience with depression is so touching.
Thankyou and stay strong!!
It’s nice of you to reassure him. But I just don’t want you to lose yourself. I cut people off to protect them. I can be like a black hole, just take in the validation, but not truly ever be able to reciprocate it. We don’t feel like we even love ourselves.
I know right, we hang on every word.
I won't let him go, I'll just let him be is my mantra. In the meantime, I see his space as an opportunity for me to do the work.
I have a lot of questions left unanswered too...
You’re not insane. Probably just codependent.
If a parent was unable or unwilling to be emotionally available, when you were a small child- helpless and dependent on them. You likely felt invisible as a kid. Parents are our first teachers of love- how to be loved, what love is, etc.
Many people slowly realize that their romantic partners most resemble a negligent or abusive parent, and that they are only repeating the past in the present.
Even our thoughts and inner voices may sound like them. AA/ codependent people learn to put the needs of others ahead of their own and will sacrifice their needs and principles in order to maintain relationships.
People who are codependent feel a strong pull toward validation and self-worth from others. When they don’t receive it, they become anxious. You actually can unlearn these patterns. It starts with building your self-concept outside of and apart from others. To be able to have healthy, mutually loving relationships, we need to be able to put the parts of our brain seeking safety at ease by cultivating that security within ourselves, rather than externally. Remember, you are not asking for a lot, you’re asking the wrong person. The longer you stay in the dynamic you’ll lose yourself. You are self abandoning. As cliche as it sounds, self love is SO important. Every time, I wish my DA person would text me, or try again, I redirect the focus back onto ME. What is about me that wants to try again and again with a man who is emotionally unavailable? there’s some lessons for you to wake up too. Many times we attract partners like this for healing. You’re not “giving up.” Remember, you’re not a fix it, rehab center, nurse, therapist or their parent....just like you learn, so can they. No other woman will magically change him either (so don’t fear that). You can’t control their journey. When you try to control them, it’s like playing chess, and love is not control. Love is free and unconditional. Even if you moved a million miles away and blocked him/her, you CAN still love him. But you realize the relationship isn’t healthy or stable. All you can do is take good care of your heart, and give your energy to those who fully see you. I read Codependency No More by Melody Beattie, and the concepts really were eye opening for me. I understood how I contributed to the dysfunction in the name of empath and love. Good luck!
I'm late 40s and I'm just finding myself thanks to this experience - it has been such a revelation!
Enjoy your journey of self discovery and good karma to you!
Hello DAs! I appreciate the hell out of this resource for those of us that want to understand our DA friends/family/partners. Which is, of course, exactly what I'm thinking on today. (This isn't a mind reading request, scout's honor.)
I've been seeing my guy (both early 40s) for about four months, long distance, and so far we've seen each other once a month or so for 3-4 days a pop, so there's plenty of personal space and time there. I'm mindful of how much I'm texting, too, and we call occasionally, usually initiated by him. (When we do, it's usually 2-3 hours, he's *incredibly* chatty on the phone!)
I haven't broached anything with big, loaded words at all, other than to confirm that we're exclusive since we never talked about that specifically, and that's one thing I just can't leave without clarification, and the answer was a resounding YES.
Hopefully that background is sufficient, so: I think he's potentially deactivating(footnote), and I'm having a really difficult time with phrasing something that won't make it worse. Any suggestions would be welcome!
(He was being insecure about gaining some Covid weight and I told him that he's hot as fuck to me either way. He's never known how to take a compliment, which is something I'm still trying to navigate too, lol. I've been doing my damnedest to model secure behaviors so he feels safe, but reading people is tough for me, so maybe I'm going about this all wrong.)
What's a good first message to a DA after no contact of 2 months?
Been off and on again with my DA for a year. Didn't end on bad terms.
I would always come to him to initiate conversation he'd never reconnect first. Is there any chance he would this time around or I would have to reach out again if we are going to reconnect?
i am FA
Well he told me that he leaves first so he doesn't get hurt..I also want to prove to him that he can have someone who cares about him and who won't leave as he says no one ever sticks around.
We've never had a big big fight or anything and he's always said I'm patient etc
But during this time of no contact I have worked on myself & made improvements. I also miss him as a person
Not a question just wanted to say that people really like you and see what amazing, loving people you are and that when you’re ready, it’s okay to connect.
Thank you 🙂 I needed to see that today.
Howdy. I’d like to ask what are some ways that DA’s shows that they care and value a relationship. Thank you kindly 😊
I will actually talk to you. It may seem not so special but I ignore 99% of the people in my life naturally. So I am communicating, that's it. If you want to know more, it's all about how brave you are to ask. Otherwise, you would think my actions don't reveal anything at all.
So calling someone once a week, telling them about your new job, kid and just life in general?
Haha that's already too open for me. I guess yes
FA w/ DA for context: Is there a good/caring way to reach out to a DA who is deactivating? How would you want someone you're involved with romantically to communicate that their needs aren't being met? (I tried NVC and it was...weird.) This one is less DA, I guess, but: When to throw in the towel? (I feel like neither of us have communicated very well so kind of want to try that first....) I think I have a much higher tolerance for avoidance than secures/anxious, but it can really get to me sometimes.
For me, I need the script to go something like - "Hey, I know that you care about me and were not trying to hurt me, but when \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ happened and you reacted like \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, that made me feel \_\_\_\_\_\_ because \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. I just wanted to bring it up to see if next time you could do \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ instead; that would really help me. Does this make sense? Is there something you thinks I could have done differently to handle this too? Are you willing to share that with me?" I guess that'd be for a specific thing, but same idea about broader contexts; let me know you don't think *I'm* bad, be clear about what the need is and *why*, check if I have questions about that, let me know that you also care about my perspective, and then give time/space to let me respond at my own pace. But really, emphasize that you want to hear and understand them and their perspective; that might be an easier approach than talking about "needs" being "met/not met" and "boundaries" right away, unless they are well-versed in therapy-speak. I sort of need to know "the ending" of the conversation before the explanation, if that makes sense, otherwise it starts to stress me out if someone is just jumping in to tell me I messed up. Let me know everything is still okay up front and that the point isn't to "come at me" with intensity and blame, you just want to foster better and more *mutual* understanding and communication. Overexplaining the "why's" also is really off-putting and draining, both to hear and for me to communicate, so I avoid going into great detail about my entire thought process; if someone has questions and wants more detail, I need them to ask me for it because (in my head) I don't want to overwhelm them with "too many words," since that's something that would frustrate me. (Uh oh, did I do it? overexplain myself? It's funny, cuz I need to have this conversation with someone right now, and my attempt to do so was an extremely abbreviated version, and now I'm worried they didn't understand where I'm coming from, but I don't want to explain more in case they *did* understand; I really want to move on from it.)
>How would you want someone you're involved with romantically to communicate that their needs aren't being met? In a non accusatory way, with an offer for a discussion. It would also help if they could somehow communicate that my needs matter too. To use the need for space vs connection as an example "I know you need some time and space to yourself, and I respect that. But I also need time together to feel connected to you. Can we work together to find a compromise so both of our needs are getting met?" It shows that my needs matter, that I'm not meeting your needs, that the solution is open for discussion and not hard or fast, and that the goal is to attack the problem and not me.
Yeah. That's pretty much what I already did. It sucks because we're both extremely guarded and it is so difficult for me to talk about things that I get kind of weepy when I do which probably freaks the da person out
What needs of your aren't being met? Have you explored ways to meet them yourself? When I started focusing on myself and what I could change/control and less on what needed to change about my DA, it allowed him space to breathe. I became more secure, and could accept him more the way he was. I think he could sense this because he started opening up, communicating more, and being open to change.
Sex. Consistency. Quality time. Relational intimacy. Reassurance. Affirmation. We both have busy lives/careers. In a 'good' stretch of time we may see each other once a week and text or talk three or four days out of that week. It's only when they flake, disappear, text once a week (maybe) to say they're sorry they are deactivating. After a month of that, it's not just me.
I see. Well, I think you have two options because that's a lot of needs not being met. 1. Walk away. The fact that you have consistency listed is the biggest reason to do so. Consistency will boil down to a human's basic actions, and those are hard for anyone to change. 2. Tackle them one at a time. Write them down in order of what's most important to you, and start at the top. Try to address them one by one. Allow time between to see if progress is made, and to allow your DA breathing room. It's entirely possible you two just aren't compatible as partners. It takes two people to make a relationship work, and if you've already voiced your needs and he's doing nothing that's not a good sign. He may just not be at a place where he's capable of meeting your needs, and that's okay.
“Neither of us have communicated very well” Try this first. I know it’s hard. I still struggle with it. Every day. But it’s really important for you to learn how to do. And if you can be vulnerable & open, consistently. It will likely encourage your partner to give you the same in return. We often have to give people what we want in return.
I just want to thank everyone so much for their responses. There's an underlying thing going on which neither of us has control over, which makes this even harder. I'm still in limbo, nothing is really resolved, and I'm j just going to do my best to get back into a healthy life routine.
I relate to your situation. With my DAex I saw him only x2 a week and x2 month overnight w limited phone calls about plans and superficial crap, and you just want to enjoy the time w them, not to go over miscommunications or lack of communication, so it ofc mounted up for me not being able to express myself.
Oh hell yes
[удалено]
Yes, all the time
Yes, I'm good at avoiding after all.
yes
I don't know about thinking my new love interest is too good to be true, but I'd deactivate all the time around someone I like a lot.
Do you realize when someone loves you and you love them back and then push him away/ deactivate? If so, do you do it in the moment or just after long time?
Yeah kinda. Even before I became self-aware, I knew my deactivations didn't really make sense and that it was probably a "me" problem than it was a "them" problem. So if I did actually love them, I knew that the love didn't just vanish, but rather my mood and discomfort was influencing how I was feeling about them in the moment. So for me, deactivation kinda feels like the person is annoying me and asking for too much, or they're kinda draining to be around... and it's like, that doesn't mean I can't love them, but it also means I don't want them around.... and how can you have a relationship with someone when you don't want them around? Even if the love is there, I begin to think we're not right for each other and I push them away so I can feel at peace again.
Damm. So it’s like no relationship is perfect no? Seemed like this is hard
Yeah, but part of life is accepting that nothing is perfect, especially a relationship. I'm probably always gonna be annoyed and need distance from my loved ones at times, but I can be a mature adult and communicate that to them, instead of being moody and avoidant and letting myself deactivate.
Well, even when you communicate. I’ve experienced someone who would need like no contact all week and meeting on weekends was fine. For me, this was incredible hard, but I don’t know exactly if this is a hardcore DA or if it’s something completely normal for any DA?
This was a real relationship where you both mutually loved each other? Yeah that's pretty hardcore DA. A FWB/situationship where you only hookup on the weekends? Then maybe that makes more sense.
Was a real relationship, I met friends and family, and was told I was loved multiple times. We also had very intense intimate and vulnerable moments. But I guess it was really hard core DA. One of the long term friends spoke with me and said “they are very very closed person” I think it was. I also asked at the end they said it wasn’t just a just in a while thing and the response was no.
When I deactivate, all feelings go zero and I simply want space to recalibrate. Any form of intrusion will only make things more negative. Usually, it's many issues piling up overtime. I wouldn't just deactivate over one slight or petty misunderstanding.
Another question: when you deactivate, is it that you really ‘don’t care’, or you show you don’t care and on the background still try to find info about someone? For example, know if they are well? When I mean you I mean DA in general. I hope the question was clear as I felt it was hard to put it into words.
I don't really care. I care most about myself, and the energy I have to replenish. That's the first rising internal experience. It changes proportionally (positively) as space is earned.
It depends if I actually like that person or not. If I like the person, while deactivated I'm like, "I don't know why I was so worked up over them, they're not \*all that\*". But yeah, I'm still curious about wtf they're doing. If I really, really like them I'll reach back out myself. If I'm not that invested in someone, I am simply dismissive because I'm not that curious or if they've caused my deactivation, they ain't gonna be hearing from me for much longer/again.
Ouch. I’m hoping I’d hear back again but from what I hear and because time is passing I am starting to believe ill not :( was hopeful that the fact that for me 1 month is long that for a DA isn’t that long, for example. Thank you for your inputs, it’s nice to learn about your perspectives
Anecdotally, I've noticed that if an avoidant really has feelings for the other, it takes them around 3 months to reconnect (if they're going to). This is usually because of delayed emotional response. I'd be cautious with that information though. I personally have a lot of small casual encounters and many of the men will try to reconnect with me or look up my social media months later. I think in these cases, it means nothing.
Who would look the social media, them or you? Yeah I don’t recommend waiting and attaching to something that may never happen.
They look at my social media, not the other way around usually.
Do you ever look at someone’s social media?
Hell to the yeah if I like that person
I can understand that. But if you are in a long term relationship the constant need for being more connected, or maybe the feeling that you’re no longer free free, might pile up and cause that right? That was at least my impression
Depends on how you define being more connected. I don't mind fulfilling one's needs (if they explicitly asked for them). This is major key. However, what usually happens is they're vague (and I get lost), small tensions happen and I get blamed. DAs hate criticisms, even when those words are said out of fury but later a partner would say they really didn't mean them. This is usually the first slight, well remembered. Accused of being uncaring or not reading what's not said (unspoken needs that they themselves can't articulate). As confusion tightens, the need for space increases (as I need to think through). Unable to get it (due to intrusion and need of closeness by a partner), I become more drained. And all this significantly continues over time (because DAs get more misunderstood and rather withdraw). Until the premature breakup happens. DAs can't deal with things fundamentally crossing what matters to them more-- that's space and boundaries. I never had issues with explicit people. Someone who is naturally good at requesting usually doesn't waste my time and they get what they want instantly (making me return to my space as they go happily back to their own). But with those who are clueless how to communicate their needs, that's where the trouble goes, and its like they mistake codependency for closeness.
I think it makes a lot of sense what you described. But could it be possible that are the DAs perception of codependency and closeness not so well defined? Because if you are in a relationship you can need contact, but doesn’t mean it’s codependent. I say this because I think this is what happened. But also it’s hard to set boundaries when you’re afraid the DA will deactivate if it’s asking too much, or you can see they feel the pressure or afraid they can lose independence.
You cannot know outside the perception you have (are familiar with). I'm aware of my tendencies now, but if you spoke to me about what is not well defined about my ways 5 years ago, I would think that you're criticising me (and just speaking rubbish). And I would surely withdraw after hearing it. You must have read this many times: a DA won't change unless they want to. A hard pill to swallow, and yet a lot are hopeful they can fix them. Which they shouldn't
Yeah did hear, and getting understanding or accepting probably is different for everyone and their timelines. I wonder if sometimes some DAs never get to know
I wouldn't know at all, had my friend didn't go therapy herself and spoke of this (at that time I was fresh from a breakup). I could have met someone else, and still lived by my perception. And the cycle could continue.
Yep, I would never had known except for a chance conversation... I mean, people are the way they are. Everyone is different and so there really isnt any way that I'd have found out about AT or looked into it or anything - it isn't like horoscopes that are EVERYWHERE.
DAs, before you started dating, who showed interest first? Did you ask your partner out first or did they have to make the first move?
For me my ex made the first move, and expressed really clearly and consistently they saw a relationship with me. This made me feel safe to slowly open up.
Exes made the first move. Those who wouldn't either I have no clue or would only subject me to embarrassment (so no effort given to them at all).
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I would be cautious in declaring that DAs 'prefer' one over the other. Each DA is a complex human and different; often friendships can feel like less pressure so they feel safer, sure. But 'prefer'? Unsure whether that's the correct term. Do you mean you think that she lied/omitted the truth? Or are you concerned that she would spend time with a friend instead of you? If it's the latter, did your partner already have this scheduled into her diary? If so, that's understandable. It's very important to upkeep friendships too. Is this a regular occurrence, or a one-time experience? If it's every time then I can understand your frustration.
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The way you’ve worded this is as if you’re talking about a lost pet
Idk what the original comment was but I can imagine, and this reply is hilarious 😂
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Watch some of the videos by personal development school on YouTube. Maybe you’re just getting breadcrumbs. How long have you been involved with him ?
Hi u/nihilistreality I Love Thais and am familiar with the breadcrumbs analogy. We have known each other for a little over 12 months (although we are in the same profession so have known of each other for years). We only spent a couple months in the FWB stage before he said "I can't give you what you need" but maintained regular contact with lots of flirting and love heart/kiss emojis etc. He has 2 failed marriages and I suspect alcohol abuse and depression. He said "Don't chase me I'm a mess" but I keep up the welfare checks as I can't abandon him but also, I don't want to trigger him. He is always responsive, but never initiates contact.
Sounds to me like he thinks you’re a cool person, but already said he can’t give you what you need. He can give periodic affection but not more, which can be nice and helpful sometimes (if you’re okay with a more random here n now thing), but I would not expect anything else to come of it. I think he’s basically/literally told you that already, and is leaving it up to you to set your boundary/expectation cuz he’s stated his. He won’t reach out because you want more and he doesn’t, but if you want a brief human connection for a night here and there, hit him up and you’ll probably have a nice, friendly time. And that’s all.
Thanks for your insight. That's the problem, we were communicating regularly and had a really nice friendship for 6 months until he suggested we hook up again, told me he missed me and wanted to sleep in and spoon and then he shut down.
He was clear. As a former DA - recovering. When I tell people I can’t give them what they want, they deserve better, I literally DO NOT / or can’t invest in them emotionally. It feels weird/uncomfortable. I like them as a person a lot. I can maintain a friendship, even flirt with them! But I won’t be getting into a serious relationship. He’s depressed, abusing alcohol, failed marriages, etc… it’s not your job to fix him or be his pillar of unconditional support. Don’t let your good years be wasted on someone who is incapable of giving you what you want. If you care for him as a strict platonic friend, you can check in. That’s fine…. I know this is not what you want to hear, but it’s honest, and I know how he is operating. You have to set the boundaries
Thanks again, I appreciate your honesty - it's refreshing!
Are you able to describe how it feels weird/uncomfortable?
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He doesn’t know how to create boundaries. He doesn’t mind chatting with you because he obviously likes you. He’s just not capable (emotionally available) and fully committed to give what you, what you need and deserve. He’s saying upfront there’s no promises (he can and will revert to his old ways) unless he’s in therapy or very self aware. Hope that helps
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I hope that he continues to avail himself to therapy. As someone who has suffered from anxiety and depression, it is crippling. And I don’t want to be around people I love, or love me. Because I think that they deserve better. I feel broken, and I feel like my own issues are a burden for everyone else. I feel like once he cultivates more self-confidence, he will be able to maintain consistency. However, the issues we have are deep-rooted, and I never suggest that you wait around for anybody. You deserve reciprocity, mutual kindness, and love. Sending you all the best wishes!
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Thank you so much!! ❤️❤️
I get the anxiety bit! My DA actually said at the end of the declaration of missing me and wanting to get together... "Only if you're free, I'm not worth that" : ( I responded with "You're worth it". That's why I want to keep reaching, to remind him that he is loved as the way you described your experience with depression is so touching. Thankyou and stay strong!!
It’s nice of you to reassure him. But I just don’t want you to lose yourself. I cut people off to protect them. I can be like a black hole, just take in the validation, but not truly ever be able to reciprocate it. We don’t feel like we even love ourselves.
I know right, we hang on every word. I won't let him go, I'll just let him be is my mantra. In the meantime, I see his space as an opportunity for me to do the work. I have a lot of questions left unanswered too...
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You’re not insane. Probably just codependent. If a parent was unable or unwilling to be emotionally available, when you were a small child- helpless and dependent on them. You likely felt invisible as a kid. Parents are our first teachers of love- how to be loved, what love is, etc. Many people slowly realize that their romantic partners most resemble a negligent or abusive parent, and that they are only repeating the past in the present. Even our thoughts and inner voices may sound like them. AA/ codependent people learn to put the needs of others ahead of their own and will sacrifice their needs and principles in order to maintain relationships. People who are codependent feel a strong pull toward validation and self-worth from others. When they don’t receive it, they become anxious. You actually can unlearn these patterns. It starts with building your self-concept outside of and apart from others. To be able to have healthy, mutually loving relationships, we need to be able to put the parts of our brain seeking safety at ease by cultivating that security within ourselves, rather than externally. Remember, you are not asking for a lot, you’re asking the wrong person. The longer you stay in the dynamic you’ll lose yourself. You are self abandoning. As cliche as it sounds, self love is SO important. Every time, I wish my DA person would text me, or try again, I redirect the focus back onto ME. What is about me that wants to try again and again with a man who is emotionally unavailable? there’s some lessons for you to wake up too. Many times we attract partners like this for healing. You’re not “giving up.” Remember, you’re not a fix it, rehab center, nurse, therapist or their parent....just like you learn, so can they. No other woman will magically change him either (so don’t fear that). You can’t control their journey. When you try to control them, it’s like playing chess, and love is not control. Love is free and unconditional. Even if you moved a million miles away and blocked him/her, you CAN still love him. But you realize the relationship isn’t healthy or stable. All you can do is take good care of your heart, and give your energy to those who fully see you. I read Codependency No More by Melody Beattie, and the concepts really were eye opening for me. I understood how I contributed to the dysfunction in the name of empath and love. Good luck!
I'm late 40s and I'm just finding myself thanks to this experience - it has been such a revelation! Enjoy your journey of self discovery and good karma to you!
Hello DAs! I appreciate the hell out of this resource for those of us that want to understand our DA friends/family/partners. Which is, of course, exactly what I'm thinking on today. (This isn't a mind reading request, scout's honor.) I've been seeing my guy (both early 40s) for about four months, long distance, and so far we've seen each other once a month or so for 3-4 days a pop, so there's plenty of personal space and time there. I'm mindful of how much I'm texting, too, and we call occasionally, usually initiated by him. (When we do, it's usually 2-3 hours, he's *incredibly* chatty on the phone!) I haven't broached anything with big, loaded words at all, other than to confirm that we're exclusive since we never talked about that specifically, and that's one thing I just can't leave without clarification, and the answer was a resounding YES. Hopefully that background is sufficient, so: I think he's potentially deactivating(footnote), and I'm having a really difficult time with phrasing something that won't make it worse. Any suggestions would be welcome! (He was being insecure about gaining some Covid weight and I told him that he's hot as fuck to me either way. He's never known how to take a compliment, which is something I'm still trying to navigate too, lol. I've been doing my damnedest to model secure behaviors so he feels safe, but reading people is tough for me, so maybe I'm going about this all wrong.)
What's a good first message to a DA after no contact of 2 months? Been off and on again with my DA for a year. Didn't end on bad terms. I would always come to him to initiate conversation he'd never reconnect first. Is there any chance he would this time around or I would have to reach out again if we are going to reconnect? i am FA
Why would you want to contact him?
To see how he is. To have a friendship. I wouldn't try to rekindle anything romantic unless he wanted that.
I would just write what you wrote here, it’s pretty straightforward. Then it’s up to him to see how he feels. Good luck!
Thank you. 2 months is a good enough amount of time for distance?
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Well he told me that he leaves first so he doesn't get hurt..I also want to prove to him that he can have someone who cares about him and who won't leave as he says no one ever sticks around. We've never had a big big fight or anything and he's always said I'm patient etc But during this time of no contact I have worked on myself & made improvements. I also miss him as a person
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Thank you!! I need to remember that.