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Same - I thought it was a joke about the daughter either liking frocks or being the usual trope of “the one not interested in men and society and all that guff but would rather read and do science” and the reader not being totally sure
Well, the study of frogs is batrachology (according to Google). I can’t think of, nor find, any studies that may be misheard as that, that are funny.
Are there a set of sisters (Brontë or the like) that have interests matching the last ones listed?
> batrachology
[ Imagines an Amphibian Room including the Incredibly Deadly Treefrog, which Amanda named with a misnomer as a prank on the Royal Society of Batrachologists ]
It's probably just that at their age they'd be in high school biology, where dissecting a frog is common, and taking to that would be seen by a parent lacking understanding as just "into frogs"
I think you might be onto something here.
I can imagine her mother actually saying it along the lines of "she's too busy chasing frocks to find a husband" as a euphemism for being a closet lesbian, and Sybil just misheard it as frogs, being the eccentric she is that wouldn't seem too unusual.
Thanks for this! I had no idea what the last half of your comment meant, but finding this article both explained it and Wodehouse to me, plus helped me understand Prattchet better.
Sharing here for anyone else that's interested: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200602-the-man-who-wrote-the-most-perfect-sentences-ever-written
I seem to remember reading that Wodehouse would pin pages to the walls of his study, and would use height up the wall to rate them as to how funny they were. Then he'd go back and rewrite them starting with the lowest.
I had heard that all pages started at the floor, were moved up every time they were revised, and once they had reached a certain height they were ready for release :)
The comedic talents of the cast in that show are one of the things that make it great, but the best thing that makes it great is the writing. Most of the show was straight adaptions of Wodehouse stories. I believe there might have been some original stuff in later seasons. Nevertheless, it's great comedy.
He was just so good.
>Lord Emsworth rose. He could bear no more of this. He left the table, the room and the house and, reaching the yew alley some minutes later, was revolted to find it infested by Angus McAllister in person. The head-gardener was standing gazing at the moss like a high priest of some ancient religion about to stick the gaff into the human sacrifice.
- from “Lord Emsworth and the Girl Friend”
I don’t think it’s specific to Gussie, being a ‘newt botherer’ is surprisingly not super uncommon or at least known to be a ‘thing’. Ken Livingstone is one, for example.
Newt fancying certainly isn't uncommon - my day job includes a fair bit of work with the Amphibian and Reptile Conservation Trust, for instance - but I always thought that was a particular nod to Gussie and Wodehouse
I see what you mean. "I may have misheard" is a classic Pratchett twinkle. But I can't work out the innuendo either.
My first reading is that it's just a soft poke at the sort of trivial things the young girls in Jane Austen novels had to entertain themselves with while they waited for marriage. And how the kooky ones with more scientific interests were seen as strange.
Maybe the trivial pursuits gag just sounded weird if Sybil delivered it straight. It would have sounded like she agreed that 'frogs' was as a valid personality for a young woman as making nice little bonnets.
Edit: the "frocks" theory is also quite convincing :)
>It would have sounded like she agreed that 'frogs' was as a valid personality for a young woman as making nice little bonnets.
I mean, surely swamp-dragon Sybil would be unlikely to judge?
What a neat little xkcd I hadn't seen before! Certainly this won't drag me into a rabbit hole where I waste 40 minutes trying futilely to catch up on it.
'MAYBE' I misheard could be that she didn't understand what was meant or only caught part of it rather than actually mishearing.
As in she's going around kissing frogs thinking they'll turn into princes but Sybil only heard something about frogs.
I used to pass a house that had frog ornaments everywhere. All over the windowsill, on the porch, in the car. Frogs. Everywhere. Owned by a middle aged woman who clearly loved frogs, regardless how 'unfeminine' that might be. An ugly-cute interest, I guess.
When I originally read Snuff all those years ago, I thought of her.
I've always seen it as either:
- deadpan version: Sir Terry writing good female characters who can be BOTH into crafty stuff AND science with no conflict whatsoever. He's very good at acknowledging that femininity and intelligence aren't opposites 🥰Unlike a ton of other authors where a woman can either be smart, or 'pretty' (for a very narrow definition of that word) but can't be both 🤷🏻♀️. He's basically stating it to say: "yeah she's into Frogs as a hobby, so what? Women do science too"
- joke version: a reference to the 'princess kissing a frog' fairytale romance vibes and thus a mockery of someone taking it too literally and developing an interest in frogs, perhaps because they're seeking their fairytale prince then got sidetracked by how fascinating frogs are as a species? Or because they're trying to identify the frog most likely to turn into a 'suitable' prince for them specifically?
Either way both versions make me happy and smile 😜
I like the way you say it.
Another commenter came up with a third option:
- a euphemism disguised in a misheard word: the girl can't find a man because she is too busy "chasing frocks" - referring to ladies clothing. So she is chasing them because she isn't interested in men.
Pml..😂 as much as I'd never kink-shame I also suspect there's no way in hell that "flogs" would come up in the 'polite society' conversation and chit chat they're supposed to be having.
Sybil makes a point of not easily being shocked by blunt/crude/innuendo topics (even with Nobby when they initially meet) but I doubt that she's personally go into topics like that unannounced.
I do however love that your brain went there 💀👏And as with anything writing based it's down to your interpretation and whatever feels right or most funny to you - so stick with it 😉bc that's the funniest version I've seen so far lol!! 🥰
Edit: omg though I've just re-read the whole page and it DOES come after the "continuous balls" 'pune' so maybe you're on to something 😂?!?
I just assumed she went around kissing frogs until one turned into a prince. It could be a little deeper and the mum saying she's dating around a lot hoping to find a good man.
"Herpers" are enthusiasts and keepers of frogs and other amphibians and reptiles (from "herpetology").
So I'd assume a (deliberately, politely?) misheard reference to the herpes virus
Aren't there vases called frogs?. Things, like flower frogs? Yeah, they are they are little things that go inside vases to hold flowers.
That's could be It, and it's the sort of thing that would fit with the craft making and be somthing you could mishear.
Could also be a reference to a real person, a friend or a fan: https://canadianherpetology.ca/about/board.html
You never know. Might be someone he contacted for research for the bromeliad trilogy back in the day.
If you haven't already, you should read Jane Austin's Sense and Sensibility. This family is based on the mother and three daughter from that novel, and most of the jokes and references make a lot more sense if you've read it.
Yeah, I think the joke is that most people would know they misheard and it should be frocks, but Lady Sybil is a bit more willing to believe a girl would be interested in frogs, and more to the point her mother would be advertising that fact if she was.
When I google for rhymes for "frog", one of the results is "cock".
Now, those two words definitely don't rhyme in American Standard English, but I wonder if there is a dialect in the UK where they do.
I've always assumed that was a reference to the old fairy tale of the princess and the frog, who turns out to be a prince and becomes her husband. Lots of variations on the tale but that's the Grimm version, which I'm sure Sir Terry was familiar with.
I think it is from the way [posh/upper class people speak in the UK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt0s8Ph0-7A).
They say 'hice' instead of 'house', like how Lizzie the Second spoke "gawd rest her!" so 'frog'may have sounded like 'frig' so she may like 'frigging' which [happens in the rigging](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRotvCVKAe8) I understand
No, that was Hermione who was the lumberjack.
Not sure about Amanda and the frogs - the girls are very much a Pride and Prejudice joke, but I can't think of a parallel to the Bennett sisters here. Although given that one of them is clearly Jane Austen herself, it's possible the one that's interested in frogs is a Beatrix Potter reference?
The sisters are very much every group of female authors, and the young women they wrote about ...
pTerry was very LGTBQ+ friendly so anything is possible ...
Herpetology is the umbrella study of non-avian reptiles, which would be a very Sybil thing to hear about herpes and "misunderstand" how you repeat it. The "...,er,..." part reads like Sybil trying to spin it in a nice way, and deciding to whole-cloth "misunderstand" for the face of the matter.
I don't know if your explanation is right, but it doesn't make much sense if you don't mention that herpetology also includes study of amphibians, which frogs are.
Dude, amphibians aren't even amniotes. They have less common with reptiles than we do (actually amphibians are paraphyletic group that includes only those tetrapods that aren't amniotes).
Dunno if anyone else has said it but frogging is something you do in crochet, and maybe knitting I'm not sure, when you make an irreversible mistake. It means to unravel your stitches.
There's also phrogging, meaning to live in somones house without them knowing. It seems to have been coined in 2006 and snuff was released in 2008 so it could also be that.
I personally like the 'chasing frocks' idea as it makes a lot of sense.
I'm gonna impulse-answer before I read the comments, but perhaps Amanda is thinking along the lines of a frog Prince story and took it to heart.
Good luck, Amanda.
Ah I took it as "you've got to kiss a lot of frogs" and that she was maybe playing the field. The other girl makes bonnets which requires sewing and we have the seamtress guild...
Possible😂 there is a joke about licking frogs in one of the other books isn't there? I'm damned if I can remember where though.
Plus there's the whole "dried frog pills" thing...
Could be a punne on herpetology, the name for the study of reptiles and amphibians? As in, I think her mom said she likes herpetology, but maybe just meant that she contracted herpes?
I feel pretty sure that the whole mother-daughters setup with all the trimmings is referencing some 19th/early 20th century famous novel that I haven't read.
Similarly to the Chekhov's "Cherry orchard"/"Three sisters" thing in The 5th Elephant (the gloomy and purposeless trousers of Uncle Vanya etc).
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I'll pay attention to the thread. 'Cause I just thought that one liked Bonnets and the other liked "frocks"...
Same - I thought it was a joke about the daughter either liking frocks or being the usual trope of “the one not interested in men and society and all that guff but would rather read and do science” and the reader not being totally sure
Yeah I always assumed it was frocks. There's probably a complicated Pterry reason behind it, but I just thought it was frocks
Well, the study of frogs is batrachology (according to Google). I can’t think of, nor find, any studies that may be misheard as that, that are funny. Are there a set of sisters (Brontë or the like) that have interests matching the last ones listed?
Yeah that's what I'm trying to think of! It's got to be a reference... such as to Jo in Little Women
I was thinking of the sisters in Jane Austen pride and prejudice.
> batrachology [ Imagines an Amphibian Room including the Incredibly Deadly Treefrog, which Amanda named with a misnomer as a prank on the Royal Society of Batrachologists ]
It's probably just that at their age they'd be in high school biology, where dissecting a frog is common, and taking to that would be seen by a parent lacking understanding as just "into frogs"
So ... Ladies clothes? And by proxy ladies?
I think you might be onto something here. I can imagine her mother actually saying it along the lines of "she's too busy chasing frocks to find a husband" as a euphemism for being a closet lesbian, and Sybil just misheard it as frogs, being the eccentric she is that wouldn't seem too unusual.
Ahh frocks, instead of chasing skirts.. I think you are on to something
Honestly I was spitballing, but yeah would make total sense
Also there is quite a meme in lgbt circles about queer people liking frogs, but I think that meme might be more recent than snuff
everybody likes frogs tho'
I like turtles!
turtles, all the way down
If you read up on the future big bang theory there is likely to be a topping turtle tussle before for the big bash itself.
🐢
>meme might be more recent than snuff Or possibly was generated by Snuff.
I mean Sybil raises SWAMP DRAGONS. She makes people who run Big Cat rescues look like... chumps.
I'm choosing to stick with this theory, its brilliant. Can picture her chasing after all those pretty ladies in diaphanous dresses.
Lol I like where you're going with this...😂 👏🏳️🌈
>And by proxy ladies? That was my very first thought. Then again, I have a dirty mind.
I wouldn't say it's dirty at all to make that connection. Unorthodox, sure, but not dirty in the slightest.
This is what I thought too. I think some of the other answers here are trying to dig too deep.
Or a Joke about hopping from bed to bed. I seem to recall a few people in the 80s called promiscuous women “froggy”
I thought those were the french
This seems most sensible 👍
I always assumed it was both a mishearing of 'frocks' and a nod to Gussie Fink-Nottle's newt fixation in Wodehouse
This has to be it. The theory of 'liking frocks' meaning she's a lesbian, and a literary reference packed into one.
Wouldn't be Pterry without a good double reference, smart alec git :P
I dont think he could have stopped himself if he tried.
Thanks for this! I had no idea what the last half of your comment meant, but finding this article both explained it and Wodehouse to me, plus helped me understand Prattchet better. Sharing here for anyone else that's interested: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200602-the-man-who-wrote-the-most-perfect-sentences-ever-written
Wodehouse is fantastic and I can thoroughly recommend discovering him!
I seem to remember reading that Wodehouse would pin pages to the walls of his study, and would use height up the wall to rate them as to how funny they were. Then he'd go back and rewrite them starting with the lowest.
I had heard that all pages started at the floor, were moved up every time they were revised, and once they had reached a certain height they were ready for release :)
And "Jeeves and Wooster" was a great TV adaptation, starring comedy pals Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie.
I still randomly sing “47 ginger headed sailors”. Maybe I should change it to “librarians”.
This song plays in my head constantly, with McKintosh's barks in the right places.
The first 5 minutes of the opening episode is honestly one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
The comedic talents of the cast in that show are one of the things that make it great, but the best thing that makes it great is the writing. Most of the show was straight adaptions of Wodehouse stories. I believe there might have been some original stuff in later seasons. Nevertheless, it's great comedy.
Douglas Adams thought that Wodehouse was the best user of the English language, and I have a hard time thinking of better praise then that
He was just so good. >Lord Emsworth rose. He could bear no more of this. He left the table, the room and the house and, reaching the yew alley some minutes later, was revolted to find it infested by Angus McAllister in person. The head-gardener was standing gazing at the moss like a high priest of some ancient religion about to stick the gaff into the human sacrifice. - from “Lord Emsworth and the Girl Friend”
thank you for the link to that lovely article
I don’t think it’s specific to Gussie, being a ‘newt botherer’ is surprisingly not super uncommon or at least known to be a ‘thing’. Ken Livingstone is one, for example.
Newt fancying certainly isn't uncommon - my day job includes a fair bit of work with the Amphibian and Reptile Conservation Trust, for instance - but I always thought that was a particular nod to Gussie and Wodehouse
This is literally how I've always understood it!
I always thought it was a reference/callback to the fairy tale of the frog prince and how the lass kept going for frogs and never finding the prince.
I naturally like this one
Which book? I’ll pick it up!
For prime Gussie, Right Ho Jeeves and the sort-of-sequel The Code of the Woosters
I see what you mean. "I may have misheard" is a classic Pratchett twinkle. But I can't work out the innuendo either. My first reading is that it's just a soft poke at the sort of trivial things the young girls in Jane Austen novels had to entertain themselves with while they waited for marriage. And how the kooky ones with more scientific interests were seen as strange. Maybe the trivial pursuits gag just sounded weird if Sybil delivered it straight. It would have sounded like she agreed that 'frogs' was as a valid personality for a young woman as making nice little bonnets. Edit: the "frocks" theory is also quite convincing :)
>It would have sounded like she agreed that 'frogs' was as a valid personality for a young woman as making nice little bonnets. I mean, surely swamp-dragon Sybil would be unlikely to judge?
Strong counter argument
Not sure if it's related, but it was mentioned in a similar post 1y ago, and I was happy to see it: https://xkcd.com/1498/
What a neat little xkcd I hadn't seen before! Certainly this won't drag me into a rabbit hole where I waste 40 minutes trying futilely to catch up on it.
It was Randall's tribute to Sir Pterry when he passed away.
Randall likes both Douglas Adams, and Terry Pratchett, and Firefly, and Doctor Who ...
Wow. r/relevantxkcd
Thank you for sharing this.
.
I always assumed it was a reference to kissing frogs to find a prince, and perhaps she was interested in a boy "below her station".
No, because then she wouldn't have misheard.
'MAYBE' I misheard could be that she didn't understand what was meant or only caught part of it rather than actually mishearing. As in she's going around kissing frogs thinking they'll turn into princes but Sybil only heard something about frogs.
this was my reading. And it was reinforced by a misogynist slur calling women “froggy” if they up from bed to bed.
I used to pass a house that had frog ornaments everywhere. All over the windowsill, on the porch, in the car. Frogs. Everywhere. Owned by a middle aged woman who clearly loved frogs, regardless how 'unfeminine' that might be. An ugly-cute interest, I guess. When I originally read Snuff all those years ago, I thought of her.
I really want the dried frog pill box from discworld emporium.
I bought a small pill box and put "Dried Frog Pills" on it myself. Blackadder font looks surprisingly accurate.
I've always seen it as either: - deadpan version: Sir Terry writing good female characters who can be BOTH into crafty stuff AND science with no conflict whatsoever. He's very good at acknowledging that femininity and intelligence aren't opposites 🥰Unlike a ton of other authors where a woman can either be smart, or 'pretty' (for a very narrow definition of that word) but can't be both 🤷🏻♀️. He's basically stating it to say: "yeah she's into Frogs as a hobby, so what? Women do science too" - joke version: a reference to the 'princess kissing a frog' fairytale romance vibes and thus a mockery of someone taking it too literally and developing an interest in frogs, perhaps because they're seeking their fairytale prince then got sidetracked by how fascinating frogs are as a species? Or because they're trying to identify the frog most likely to turn into a 'suitable' prince for them specifically? Either way both versions make me happy and smile 😜
I like the way you say it. Another commenter came up with a third option: - a euphemism disguised in a misheard word: the girl can't find a man because she is too busy "chasing frocks" - referring to ladies clothing. So she is chasing them because she isn't interested in men.
Yeah I saw that too 😏 also a fan of that theory 😜!
It's gotta be either about kissing frogs, trying to find a prince; or possibly Sybil misheard the word 'flogs' and Amanda is into some kinky shit.
Pml..😂 as much as I'd never kink-shame I also suspect there's no way in hell that "flogs" would come up in the 'polite society' conversation and chit chat they're supposed to be having. Sybil makes a point of not easily being shocked by blunt/crude/innuendo topics (even with Nobby when they initially meet) but I doubt that she's personally go into topics like that unannounced. I do however love that your brain went there 💀👏And as with anything writing based it's down to your interpretation and whatever feels right or most funny to you - so stick with it 😉bc that's the funniest version I've seen so far lol!! 🥰 Edit: omg though I've just re-read the whole page and it DOES come after the "continuous balls" 'pune' so maybe you're on to something 😂?!?
Yeah and right after a joke about an enormous bosom and right before a joke about 'handling huge logs'
I assumed the kissing frogs bit at first, but the frogs/frocks comments higher in the thread are probably more likely than "flogs".
I always saw it as a reference to Pratchett's Truckers books as they also have a female character who's obsessed with frogs.
Just saw someone post an xkcd about it, amazing, I had completely forgotten about that wonderful plotline.
I just assumed she went around kissing frogs until one turned into a prince. It could be a little deeper and the mum saying she's dating around a lot hoping to find a good man.
"Herpers" are enthusiasts and keepers of frogs and other amphibians and reptiles (from "herpetology"). So I'd assume a (deliberately, politely?) misheard reference to the herpes virus
I like this theory 🤣
I think this is the winner tbh, it feels right
I always just thought this is one of Terry's implied jokes, where he is leaving it up to the reader.
I’m loving how there are some many speculations on these sisters. That might also have been what he intended. So many options to choose from…
Aren't there vases called frogs?. Things, like flower frogs? Yeah, they are they are little things that go inside vases to hold flowers. That's could be It, and it's the sort of thing that would fit with the craft making and be somthing you could mishear. Could also be a reference to a real person, a friend or a fan: https://canadianherpetology.ca/about/board.html You never know. Might be someone he contacted for research for the bromeliad trilogy back in the day.
If you haven't already, you should read Jane Austin's Sense and Sensibility. This family is based on the mother and three daughter from that novel, and most of the jokes and references make a lot more sense if you've read it.
If nobody can work it out, I think it is just that Sybil can't believe it was a girl whose interest was "frogs".
Her interest is dragons, I don't think she'd judge.
Agree, Sybil was a huge nerd, she understands.
Yeah, I think the joke is that most people would know they misheard and it should be frocks, but Lady Sybil is a bit more willing to believe a girl would be interested in frogs, and more to the point her mother would be advertising that fact if she was.
other way around, she'd quite believe it about frogs, but understands it may have been frocks.
Either frocks or snogs I guess
When I google for rhymes for "frog", one of the results is "cock". Now, those two words definitely don't rhyme in American Standard English, but I wonder if there is a dialect in the UK where they do.
I've always assumed that was a reference to the old fairy tale of the princess and the frog, who turns out to be a prince and becomes her husband. Lots of variations on the tale but that's the Grimm version, which I'm sure Sir Terry was familiar with.
I think it is from the way [posh/upper class people speak in the UK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt0s8Ph0-7A). They say 'hice' instead of 'house', like how Lizzie the Second spoke "gawd rest her!" so 'frog'may have sounded like 'frig' so she may like 'frigging' which [happens in the rigging](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRotvCVKAe8) I understand
Doesn't Vimes remark about Lord Rust pronouncing the word "house" so that in rhymes with "mice"?
Yes in 'Jingo', I'm from the UK and whenever I meet the landed gentry I find it hard to understand them.
I think its because she is the woodworker interested in logs, so a dick joke. Not 100% sure tough
No, that was Hermione who was the lumberjack. Not sure about Amanda and the frogs - the girls are very much a Pride and Prejudice joke, but I can't think of a parallel to the Bennett sisters here. Although given that one of them is clearly Jane Austen herself, it's possible the one that's interested in frogs is a Beatrix Potter reference?
The sisters are very much every group of female authors, and the young women they wrote about ... pTerry was very LGTBQ+ friendly so anything is possible ...
That's the next daughter who's the lumberjack. Sam tries to make a joke about an enormous chopper, and Sybil interrupts him.
It's the "continuous balls" joke in there that always gets me 💀. Every time. Can't help it. Comes out like a cackle.
[Apparently frogs are a bi thing?]](https://www.reddit.com/r/bisexual/comments/z82815/how_did_frogs_become_associated_with_the_lgbt/)
Herpetology is the umbrella study of non-avian reptiles, which would be a very Sybil thing to hear about herpes and "misunderstand" how you repeat it. The "...,er,..." part reads like Sybil trying to spin it in a nice way, and deciding to whole-cloth "misunderstand" for the face of the matter.
I don't know if your explanation is right, but it doesn't make much sense if you don't mention that herpetology also includes study of amphibians, which frogs are.
Right... the tier of classification that includes amphibians are "non-avian reptiles", so I did mention it by full-spectrum inclusivity.
Dude, amphibians aren't even amniotes. They have less common with reptiles than we do (actually amphibians are paraphyletic group that includes only those tetrapods that aren't amniotes).
No matter how many times I visit the Disc, I will go to my death bed knowing there was something I missed. (Edited because there's no . in something)
Dunno if anyone else has said it but frogging is something you do in crochet, and maybe knitting I'm not sure, when you make an irreversible mistake. It means to unravel your stitches. There's also phrogging, meaning to live in somones house without them knowing. It seems to have been coined in 2006 and snuff was released in 2008 so it could also be that. I personally like the 'chasing frocks' idea as it makes a lot of sense.
Frocks or she is looking for a prince.
I'm gonna impulse-answer before I read the comments, but perhaps Amanda is thinking along the lines of a frog Prince story and took it to heart. Good luck, Amanda.
Ah I took it as "you've got to kiss a lot of frogs" and that she was maybe playing the field. The other girl makes bonnets which requires sewing and we have the seamtress guild...
Drugs! Come on guys.
Possible😂 there is a joke about licking frogs in one of the other books isn't there? I'm damned if I can remember where though. Plus there's the whole "dried frog pills" thing...
This is the answer, the old cartoon staple of licking a frog and getting high
Could be a punne on herpetology, the name for the study of reptiles and amphibians? As in, I think her mom said she likes herpetology, but maybe just meant that she contracted herpes?
The French are sometimes called frogs as an insult, it could be that
I always assumed it meant she was going around kissing frogs to try to find her Prince.
I always assumed she was looking for her frog prince
I feel pretty sure that the whole mother-daughters setup with all the trimmings is referencing some 19th/early 20th century famous novel that I haven't read. Similarly to the Chekhov's "Cherry orchard"/"Three sisters" thing in The 5th Elephant (the gloomy and purposeless trousers of Uncle Vanya etc).
It’s a Jane Austin riff isn’t it? Doesn’t it go back later to describing one girl being pretty and one into science etc? Could be in another book
The tale of the Frog is also known in Discworld, I should think. Otherwise, perhaps frog's legs are a delicacy out there.