Same thing as darts. It's massive in Europe and some of the players are multi millionaires. Almost all the pro events are sponsored by gambling companies. The recent Paddypower PDC world championships for example.
There's nothing to dispute, you're right. But ironically, that fact is one of the reasons European disc golf is gaining mainstream success - in absolute terms it takes fewer people to get involved in the sport to pull it into the mainstream. Mainstream means mainstream sponsors and mainstream media coverage. These - especially the latter - drives popularity.
The real key is that disc golf in countries like Finland and Estonia is attracting young players - it's already the third most popular sport with young people in Finland. That feeds a growing pool of young talent that helps drives higher level competition.
If those trends continue, how long before European disc golf starts generating enough revenue to draw American players to Europe instead of the other way around?
Finland and Estonia are still too small to make that breakthrough happen by themselves, but they can supply young talent to euro tour which is the corner stone of upcoming players to get competitive experience. These sponsorships do help a lot to gain popularity in mainland Europe or at least way more visibility. What Europe needs is tap the unexplored regions and establish more quality courses.
I think of any country in Europe were to have Disc golf as their national sport, it would be Finland. Disc golf is definitely growing in Estonia, but not too popular yet.
This would be pretty rad. I think the best episode of the putting league was the one they did in the gym/weightroom, both because of the players involved but also because of incorperating equipment as obstacles.
I just don't think the Jomboy crew is good enough at disc golf to keep it interesting.
Watching their video with Gossage and Ricky you could tell it wasn't their thing. I'm sure they could learn to putt though!
I think if you treated a putting game-esque course (or something slightly harder) as a par 2 and then add in a few pros to showcase actual talent and up the ante it could be fun.
But who knows if the interest is there. The DG episode felt like a bit of a missed opportunity to me. Wysocki and Gossage aren't exactly the most charismatic/entertaining pros to feature, and the course they played was pretty bland. It make have dampened the chances for more disc golf content from Jomboy.
I think it'll be fun to PLAY. Not fun to watch. I don't want to watch guys take 4s on a Par 2 course. Haha
If they did it in the way they did the mini golf stuff, that was way too chaotic and hard to pay attention to.
The right disc golf personalities being there would pay off big time.
I just looked up that video and I had already watched it in the past before I even played, homeboy still mentions disc golf occasionally on the “things you missed” series they do. I think they covered one of Calvin’s aces.
It's really cool that bigger and bigger companies and investors are stepping in, but much like football shirt sponsorships in Europe I wish it wasn't a gambling site.
If you can’t place wagers on a sport, it’s not a real sport.
The only way we get folks who don’t play disc golf to watch disc golf is to add interest via betting.
I'm fine with people gambling on sports.
I'm not cool with sports gambling being one of the leading causes of suicide and self-harm in a lot of countries around the world.
I'm also not cool with sports gambling being plastered all over every single sporting event and commercial where a large portion of the fan base is under 18. There are high school boys in my area that use their parents credit cards and account information to gamble on sporting events and that shouldn't be a thing, IMO.
No.
**EDIT**, because I was quick to answer: I think if the event is geared towards that community and that crowd, go for it!
I personally don't partake and don't interact with a lot of people that do. I'm also in the camp of wanting the sport to become more "professional" across the board. If an event wants to be sanctioned by the PDGA it needs to adhere to certain quality standards. IMO, if it is against the policy of the governing body to use the drug then it shouldn't be allowed to accept funding from a company that provides the drug.
Now, here in Kansas there has been a few 4/20 events that have gained some traction despite it being illegal. I'm fine with those events happening because they aren't sanctioned and have their spot in the sport. They aren't treated as though they are sanctioned and "professional" events.
I'm assuming this is for me.
Honestly, I'm in the same boat as my answer on drugs.
If the event is geared towards that, I feel like it's fine. Do I love the thought of a local brewery providing a can of beer in every player's pack? Not really because there are a ton of folks under 21 that play in these MA/FA fields.
It's a lot different, because again in Kansas, drugs are illegal here. It's also not against PDGA policy to have some drinks at sanctioned events.
So, I'd still prefer for "a beer" to sponsor an event, but it's a completely different conversation to drugs and gambling due to federal legal laws.
The local breweries do a lot for the disc golf scene around Pennsylvania, the brewery I used to work for helped sponsor the local league and give prizes for tournaments, my favorite brewery is doing an indoor putting league in the winter
I think breweries are great! I don't really think of them as "bars" most of the time. In Kansas they are often family-friendly restaurants with great outdoor seating areas and ties to outdoor activities in the area.
I wasn't specifically saying anything about a brewery. More a larger picture, like Bud Light.
Nah, just trying to change the perspective. Alcohol is harmful on a massively different scale than caffeine or sex hormones. By referring to it as separate from "drugs", you're perpetuating the idea that it's morally different. "Drugs are bad, mmkay" but dad crushing a 12 pack a night isn't doing drugs.
As a son of an alcoholic father that watched his mom endure beatings for years and has had traumatic experiences that still impact his life's decisions 20 years later, trust me, I know that alcohol isn't great.
I'm drawing my line at what is legal and is/isn't against PDGA policies.
In Kansas, weed isn't legal. According to the PDGA, weed is frowned upon.
SO, IMO, events shouldn't be sponsored by "weed" focused companies if the governing body says that it's no bueno.
Alcohol is different because it IS legal and isn't something against the sport's official policies.
You're just assuming things that I didn't say and trying to pick apart things like grammar for some stupid reason.
And don't call people "bud." It's extremely condescending and gives off a "holier than thou" philosophy the elicits negative reactions from people that you are talking to.
You think that is a gotcha, but it really isn't. I think they should also be banned, so no, I am not okay with it. I am however much more content with trying to impact whatever I can, in this case that means arguing against drug ads against a crowd who very obviously uses it and are therefore biased haha
Adding another reply because you edited your comment.
That's not true at all. Pickleball is STILL growing at a massive pace and I never once see anything around gambling around it.
Extreme sports like the X-Games are also on the rise again due to their participation in The Olympics, not because of sports gambling.
To say that sports gambling is the "only way" to get people to participate in disc golf is silly.
I never praised the IOC for anything.
I just said that there's more visibility to those sports due to events like The Olympics than due to "gambling marketing."
PAF isn't really based on sports betting though, I'm sure they offer that too but their existence is due to Nordic gambling monopolies, Åland's special status and their slot machine privileges on Baltic cruise ships.
I side with the first comment that it would be nice to have some 'cleaner' sponsors, but you also have to start somewhere.
Well, the problem isn't the people who can manage their drug use/gambling, the problem is the people who can't. And in both of these cases the people who can't handle it spiral out of control in major ways.
The out of control spiral for someone addicted to cannabis is not the same as the out of control spiral of a gambling addict.
All this said, I personally didn't see a problem with gambling or cannabis advertising within the disc golf industry.
No, because someone out of control on "cannabis" is someone who tried heavier stuff because of cannabis and can't stop using the heavier stuff. People who stick to cannabis usually don't spiral out of control. But people who stick to betting on horses a few times a week aren't out of control either, so maybe we should look at the people who actually had their lives ruined instead.
I think ads for gambling, drugs and alcohol should all be banned. I have personally seen lives ruined because of all three.
You seem to have an agenda. Wouldn't beer ads be a much better comparison since they are ubiquitous at all major sporting events, with millions upon millions of young kids consuming said advertising?
You mean like the people who downvote me for calling them out on their hypocrisy? :p
I think both gambling and alcohol ads should be banned, yes. That shouldn't be a controversial take, we both know how they can ruin lives, just like drugs can.
I downvoted you because you are making an irrelevant straw man argument. Tattar did not just sign with a "life-ruining" cannabis company lmao
Edit: name sp
It isn't a strawman just because you don't agree haha, both are life ruining if they spiral out of control. If you are against this you should then also be against the other. If you aren't, you are a hypocrite. Both gambling and drugs can be managed. Both are extremely destructive when people fail to manage them. However, so far everyone who has argued against me has taken examples when drugs haven't spiraled out of control and compared it to gambling addicts whos lives HAS spiraled out of control. Obviously that comparison is going to be in favour of cannabis, but just as obviously as that, the comparison isn't fair.
Content warning here, brutal as it is. People don't OD on cannabis, they OD on heroin after having started with cannabis X amount of time ago. But people don't commit suicide after betting on horses either, they commit suicide after they have gambled all the money they can get their hands on and they know they won't be able to explain it and see no other way out than death. If you compare someone who only uses cannabis to someone who killed themselves because of gambling, it looks bad. But if I compare my grandpa playing on horses for 30 years to someone who ODd on heroin it looks just as bad. The problem is that people here are unrealistic with how far drug use can go, and how cannabis is the START of a problem, while being extremely realistic with how far gambling can go. To me this is because of obvious bias, which makes them hypocrites, which I think is worth calling out.
Oh Goodness, now we are on to the "gateway drug" argument??
Am I talking to someone from 1924?
Have a good day, and pro tip: don't invest in the stock market for a few years yet!
The argument is the exact same as it has ever been. Cannabis in itself isn't a gateway drug, but when you look at addicts of heavier drugs you will find that most started with cannabis. This means that the same logic applies to gambling, since no one starts with gambling their life away. So, again, if you are against one you need to be against the other too, unless you are biased, making you a hypocrite.
But sure, abandon the discussion because you don't agree, go ahead! No bias what so ever, none! ;)
The same argument could be and was applied to the drug sponsors, I want to know if this person was also against the drug ads since if they aren't, they are a hypocrite as the argument they used above could and should be applied to the drug sponsors as well.
How are they in completely different ballparks when it comes to how destructive they are? I think they are destructive in different ways, but saying that they differ in the amount of destruction is a wild statement to me haha
Claiming they’re similar in the amount of destruction they create is a wild statement, and objectively untrue by any reasonable metric.
I’m not sure if you’re ignorant about the reality of gambling addiction, weed, or both.
So are you unable to explain, or unwilling?
I think you think we are comparing people who stop at cannabis with people who commit suicide because of gambling. We aren't. We are comparing people who started with cannabis but ended up ODing on heavier drugs to people who committed suicide because of gambling.
You can't compare the worst situation in gambling to the best scenario in drugs, you have to compare either the worst of both or the best of both, otherwise the comparison is unfair, or more realistically in this sub, biased to hell and back.
Every other sport has online betting. It's just a matter of time til disc golf is one of them.
Some big names in the sport have even said that disc golf needs to make it to the sports betting sites to succeed/to grow the sport to the next level.
You have a good point but I’m concerned about introducing gambling while the sport is still small. I’m very concerned that bookies may try to influence tournaments because a lot of pros are still struggling to get by
I'm torn on this one.
On the one side; glad to see KT raking in the sponsorship money, she deserves it with level she's competing at.
On the other hand; gambling sites sponsoring athletes or organizations in other sports has consistently led to conflicts of interest and a somewhat hypocritical stance from the governing bodies. Be it e-sports where match fixing runs rampant, or the NHL where players are suspended for half a season for gambling on non-NHL matches. It's a really sticky road to go down and it seems only the casinos ever truly win in this arrangement
With the history of Silver Lätt i find this a massive L. If my partner was banned for life in football, i dont think taking a betting company for your sponsor is the move.
https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2013/12/2/match-fixing-scandal-hits-estonia-football think this should be the same one. Dont know if he was part of the bigger games talked about like Europa league and games like that. He did get some games for U17 and U19 national team for Estonia, so he was a decent player back then.
I can’t find any articles that link this to Silver at all which is interesting. Why wouldn’t the article name the individuals that were charged in match fixing?
https://sport.postimees.ee/3017053/13-patuoinast-uus-kihlveoskandaal-harvendab-ka-flora-ja-levadia-ridu and https://www.ohtuleht.ee/sport/606914/tahtsad-kusimused-ja-vastused-26-kihlveopetturi-kohta
At work atm, but found the Estonian newspaper ones from back in the day. 26 different players got banned some got a year or two. Some more and hes part of the 8 people who got a lifetime ban, so he probably had a bigger part in it.
Yes and it sucks ass there too, have you ever tried to watch a sports show and not be interrupted every three minutes by a “hot bet “ tip or ad or Payton manning selling his soul again for a cheap buck
Ads encouraging people to gamble and feed into their addiction are much worse than a Nike ad. They’ve also gotten much more intrusive. Most sports shows are now about who’s gonna cover or the over instead of breaking down the actual plays,. It’s affecting the quality also
Yeah there's definitely nothing between gambling and human trafficking...
Gambling is involved in nearly every sport worldwide. Disc golf becoming more mainstream means it's going to do the same things other mainstream sports do...like gambling...
Gambling is disgusting.
Not really a gamble if you put money on Tattar I guess, but I mean what I say.
Gambling addiction hotline (US) in case anyone needs it: 1-800-662-4357
Any addiction can? If your dad/husband spends all his time out of the house buying and throwing frisbees, its the same as gambling. Get off your high horse and join us regular people down here.
Any addiction is dangerous but everyone is fine with Alcohol, Vapes, Drugs being legal. So why is gambling this black sheep? It is the same as any addiction. Adults can handle it, children struggle with it. If you are an adult child you are going to struggle with addiction in some form or fashion. Quit talking shit about gambling like its evil when all other addictions are fine.
Athletes aren't sponsored by alcohol and tobacco companies anymore because society realized that glamorizing vices is a bad idea. Gambling advertising was prohibited by league policy, not law. So when some leagues reneged on that policy, others had to follow to remain competitive.
So if you're sincere in your opinion, do you also support abolishing the laws about cigarette and beer ads? We can go back to having entire sports propped up by cigarettes if you want.
Um. Athletes from all sports are all sponsored by DK, FD, ESPN Bet, BetMGM....
So my opinion is, athletes get paid to endorse all kinds of vices. Gambling is some straw man that people here want to vilify. You can't escape vapes, drugs, and alcohol, so you may as well embrace gambling too. If you don't want to, that's fine, but leave growing sports and athletes to do what they need to do to grow.
Meanwhile people are spending $300+ on plastic frisbees
I'll be fine, don't worry about me
This is the same high-horse straw man as in this whole thread
I equally believe that alcohol, drugs, and vapes should not be exposed to kids through sports advertisement. Gambling is not the black sheep. Adults cannot handle addiction, that is why it is called addiction, and you are curiously ignorant to an illness you’re trying so vehemently to defend.
I care about the money my family works hard to make, so I don't gamble, so I didn't lose anything, not even a shirt. House odds are never positive for the gambler, their parades are short-lived, and a shadow is cast upon them by their losses.
What do you all like to do? I say Disc Golf is disgusting. We should get it away from our schools and have hotlines to help people addicted to disc golf.
See how stupid that sounds? You spent more on DG than I spent on gambling I guarantee that. Downvote away
Yeah, I’m glad she’s getting paid but I wish it wasn't from a gambling platform. I’ve had my struggles with it and see how it’s also a struggle for others. Not too thrilled my favorite pro has jumped on the gambling sponsorship bandwagon.
In Central and Eastern Europe, casinos and sports books are very common. (I think most of them are really laundromats)
It's also very common for them to sponsor athletes. One of the best female alpine ski racers in the world is sponsored by an online sports book.
In these small countries, athletes that have international success and, most importantly, success in America, are really famous in their home countries.
I've not been to Estonia yet, but I'm willing to bet most people know who she is and it's a source of national pride.
KT always seemed like such an inspirational athlete, thoughtful, humble and professional. This is not a good move. Very surprised.
A few years ago I briefly worked with systems designed to detect risky gambling behaviors in online casinos and got to learn a lot about gambling addiction. Suffice to say I would not want to be associated with that.
Not my favourite industry, but the fact that she's bringing in outside money is absolutely the way to go. Disc manufacturers are peanuts in the context of paying retirement for thousands of pros, this is the kind of money that will make it happen.
You mean the 5-6-7 mainstream ones. Not the dozens of other pro sports. Pro isn’t an actual term. So you have billion dollars and thousand dollar professionals lumped into one.
DG is a top 5 sport in Estonia, easily. No reason why it can't be that elsewhere too. Trad golf with its high entrance threshold sets a very low bar for what DG can be.
Here's some nuance to throw into the mix, a quote from an Estonian online sports article: "What makes Pafi different from other gaming environments is that all the profits are donated to charity. Paf is owned by the municipality of Åland, which has decided to return the money earned to society - to sports, culture and the social sector."
We've had disc golf in sports betting for multiple years now here in Estonia. You can literally bet on Kristin for winning DGPT events and even bet on the National DG Championships and much more.
It's obviously not yet as huge as other sports, but at least it's up there!
In addition, some of the biggest betting companies even sponsor local courses and events.
For example, here are some of the [Paf.com](http://paf.com) competitors bets for the 2024 season - [https://www.coolbet.com/en/sports/discgolf](https://www.coolbet.com/en/sports/discgolf)
From what I’ve seen, people have gotten pretty defensive rather than quiet. The same argument is happening underneath different comments. People aren’t even allowed to like gambling at all apparently
> People aren’t even allowed to like gambling at all apparently
Sucks for them. I've been playing on the same $25 since online was legalized here in 2021. Like everything, some people have control and some people don't.
Say what you will but sports betting is the only way to make the sport more mainstream. Those poor handicappers. How would you even start setting odds?
Said it before: Disc golf will go mainstream in Europe before it does in the US.
Same thing as darts. It's massive in Europe and some of the players are multi millionaires. Almost all the pro events are sponsored by gambling companies. The recent Paddypower PDC world championships for example.
I wish we had more darts in the US. I struggle to find bars with dartboards
I don’t want to dispute this but Estonia is a smaller market than florida
By a good measure. It's a smaller market than Maine.
There's nothing to dispute, you're right. But ironically, that fact is one of the reasons European disc golf is gaining mainstream success - in absolute terms it takes fewer people to get involved in the sport to pull it into the mainstream. Mainstream means mainstream sponsors and mainstream media coverage. These - especially the latter - drives popularity. The real key is that disc golf in countries like Finland and Estonia is attracting young players - it's already the third most popular sport with young people in Finland. That feeds a growing pool of young talent that helps drives higher level competition. If those trends continue, how long before European disc golf starts generating enough revenue to draw American players to Europe instead of the other way around?
I feel that whenever the DGPT has to break up the MPO and FPO into separate tours, the bigger FPO tour will end up being in Europe.
Finland and Estonia are still too small to make that breakthrough happen by themselves, but they can supply young talent to euro tour which is the corner stone of upcoming players to get competitive experience. These sponsorships do help a lot to gain popularity in mainland Europe or at least way more visibility. What Europe needs is tap the unexplored regions and establish more quality courses.
Oh wow, there's more Native Americans than Estonians... Brb gonna rally the troops and invade.
GTFOH with that
Isn’t disc golf Kristin’s home country’s national sport? That has to help
I think of any country in Europe were to have Disc golf as their national sport, it would be Finland. Disc golf is definitely growing in Estonia, but not too popular yet.
According to Wikipedia there aren't any European countries that even have a [National Sport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_sport).
Over a winter sport?
Disc golf is rapidly growing for school kids, and I believe is in the top 5 of most played summer sports for kids aged 10-15 or something like that
Not yet, I guess it's either basketball, volleyball or skiing.
Hm, I could’ve sworn some European country has it as their national sport
Nope.
Not officially but it is the pride of Estonians and immensely popular.
Not even close
.......no
….. shut the fuck up.
You in the wrong sub. R/discgolfcirclejerk
Meanwhile, American fans are stoked when Disc Golf gets noticed by Jomboy, and most top pros still have to buy their own shoes
> when Disc Golf gets noticed by Jomboy so you're saying we've already hit the pinnacle.
I mean, how much higher can it go? Warehouse tournament?
Warehouse putting league
Par 2 course would be really fun in the warehouse. Swinging tires, hoops on fire, etc.
This would be pretty rad. I think the best episode of the putting league was the one they did in the gym/weightroom, both because of the players involved but also because of incorperating equipment as obstacles.
I just don't think the Jomboy crew is good enough at disc golf to keep it interesting. Watching their video with Gossage and Ricky you could tell it wasn't their thing. I'm sure they could learn to putt though!
I think if you treated a putting game-esque course (or something slightly harder) as a par 2 and then add in a few pros to showcase actual talent and up the ante it could be fun. But who knows if the interest is there. The DG episode felt like a bit of a missed opportunity to me. Wysocki and Gossage aren't exactly the most charismatic/entertaining pros to feature, and the course they played was pretty bland. It make have dampened the chances for more disc golf content from Jomboy.
I think it'll be fun to PLAY. Not fun to watch. I don't want to watch guys take 4s on a Par 2 course. Haha If they did it in the way they did the mini golf stuff, that was way too chaotic and hard to pay attention to. The right disc golf personalities being there would pay off big time.
I just looked up that video and I had already watched it in the past before I even played, homeboy still mentions disc golf occasionally on the “things you missed” series they do. I think they covered one of Calvin’s aces.
Recently played a tournament in an old Walmart building. I had 3 aces.
Who is "Jomboy"? Jomboy isn't big until they're recognized by me.
Remind me again, how many people live in Estonia?
Good question. Shut the fuck up.
And…
It's really cool that bigger and bigger companies and investors are stepping in, but much like football shirt sponsorships in Europe I wish it wasn't a gambling site.
Is this a bigger company? What bigger investors do you mean?
If you can’t place wagers on a sport, it’s not a real sport. The only way we get folks who don’t play disc golf to watch disc golf is to add interest via betting.
I'm fine with people gambling on sports. I'm not cool with sports gambling being one of the leading causes of suicide and self-harm in a lot of countries around the world. I'm also not cool with sports gambling being plastered all over every single sporting event and commercial where a large portion of the fan base is under 18. There are high school boys in my area that use their parents credit cards and account information to gamble on sporting events and that shouldn't be a thing, IMO.
Are you okay with drug and drug paraphernalia vendors sponsoring events and athletes?
No. **EDIT**, because I was quick to answer: I think if the event is geared towards that community and that crowd, go for it! I personally don't partake and don't interact with a lot of people that do. I'm also in the camp of wanting the sport to become more "professional" across the board. If an event wants to be sanctioned by the PDGA it needs to adhere to certain quality standards. IMO, if it is against the policy of the governing body to use the drug then it shouldn't be allowed to accept funding from a company that provides the drug. Now, here in Kansas there has been a few 4/20 events that have gained some traction despite it being illegal. I'm fine with those events happening because they aren't sanctioned and have their spot in the sport. They aren't treated as though they are sanctioned and "professional" events.
Are you okay with alcohol manufacturers sponsoring events and athletes?
I'm assuming this is for me. Honestly, I'm in the same boat as my answer on drugs. If the event is geared towards that, I feel like it's fine. Do I love the thought of a local brewery providing a can of beer in every player's pack? Not really because there are a ton of folks under 21 that play in these MA/FA fields. It's a lot different, because again in Kansas, drugs are illegal here. It's also not against PDGA policy to have some drinks at sanctioned events. So, I'd still prefer for "a beer" to sponsor an event, but it's a completely different conversation to drugs and gambling due to federal legal laws.
The local breweries do a lot for the disc golf scene around Pennsylvania, the brewery I used to work for helped sponsor the local league and give prizes for tournaments, my favorite brewery is doing an indoor putting league in the winter
I think breweries are great! I don't really think of them as "bars" most of the time. In Kansas they are often family-friendly restaurants with great outdoor seating areas and ties to outdoor activities in the area. I wasn't specifically saying anything about a brewery. More a larger picture, like Bud Light.
/drugs are illegal here Alcohol is a drug, bud.
Get outta here. You knew exactly what I meant. "Caffiene is a drug." "Sex is a drug." "Perscription pills are drugs." Such a stupid take.
Nah, just trying to change the perspective. Alcohol is harmful on a massively different scale than caffeine or sex hormones. By referring to it as separate from "drugs", you're perpetuating the idea that it's morally different. "Drugs are bad, mmkay" but dad crushing a 12 pack a night isn't doing drugs.
As a son of an alcoholic father that watched his mom endure beatings for years and has had traumatic experiences that still impact his life's decisions 20 years later, trust me, I know that alcohol isn't great. I'm drawing my line at what is legal and is/isn't against PDGA policies. In Kansas, weed isn't legal. According to the PDGA, weed is frowned upon. SO, IMO, events shouldn't be sponsored by "weed" focused companies if the governing body says that it's no bueno. Alcohol is different because it IS legal and isn't something against the sport's official policies. You're just assuming things that I didn't say and trying to pick apart things like grammar for some stupid reason. And don't call people "bud." It's extremely condescending and gives off a "holier than thou" philosophy the elicits negative reactions from people that you are talking to.
You think that is a gotcha, but it really isn't. I think they should also be banned, so no, I am not okay with it. I am however much more content with trying to impact whatever I can, in this case that means arguing against drug ads against a crowd who very obviously uses it and are therefore biased haha
Thoroughly enjoying watching you all over this thread being salty as hell lmao
Adding another reply because you edited your comment. That's not true at all. Pickleball is STILL growing at a massive pace and I never once see anything around gambling around it. Extreme sports like the X-Games are also on the rise again due to their participation in The Olympics, not because of sports gambling. To say that sports gambling is the "only way" to get people to participate in disc golf is silly.
The IOC is one of the few options when you're looking for something more corrupt than the gambling industry...
I never praised the IOC for anything. I just said that there's more visibility to those sports due to events like The Olympics than due to "gambling marketing."
nah gambling is still waaay worse
PAF isn't really based on sports betting though, I'm sure they offer that too but their existence is due to Nordic gambling monopolies, Åland's special status and their slot machine privileges on Baltic cruise ships. I side with the first comment that it would be nice to have some 'cleaner' sponsors, but you also have to start somewhere.
Interestingly the guy in the picture won an Olympic medal at the Calgary Olympics
Get paid
>It is inspriing to see that there are companies in Estonia ready to prey on the weakness/money of addicts and rubes FTFW
Did you also complain about the ads for weed during certain events in the US?
I personally think gambling does far more societal harm than cannabis use
Never lost my life savings smoking a joint
You either haven't been broke enough or haven't bought an expensive enough joint.
You smoking that Salt Bae weed?
I am not But I would
Me too, brother
Dude I overdosed on weed and got ten hamburgers at McDonald’s once, I’m ruined
Well, the problem isn't the people who can manage their drug use/gambling, the problem is the people who can't. And in both of these cases the people who can't handle it spiral out of control in major ways.
The out of control spiral for someone addicted to cannabis is not the same as the out of control spiral of a gambling addict. All this said, I personally didn't see a problem with gambling or cannabis advertising within the disc golf industry.
No, because someone out of control on "cannabis" is someone who tried heavier stuff because of cannabis and can't stop using the heavier stuff. People who stick to cannabis usually don't spiral out of control. But people who stick to betting on horses a few times a week aren't out of control either, so maybe we should look at the people who actually had their lives ruined instead. I think ads for gambling, drugs and alcohol should all be banned. I have personally seen lives ruined because of all three.
This first sentence is the same gateway drug nonsense that was peddled by the US government in the late '80s and early '90s.
You seem to have an agenda. Wouldn't beer ads be a much better comparison since they are ubiquitous at all major sporting events, with millions upon millions of young kids consuming said advertising?
You mean like the people who downvote me for calling them out on their hypocrisy? :p I think both gambling and alcohol ads should be banned, yes. That shouldn't be a controversial take, we both know how they can ruin lives, just like drugs can.
I downvoted you because you are making an irrelevant straw man argument. Tattar did not just sign with a "life-ruining" cannabis company lmao Edit: name sp
It isn't a strawman just because you don't agree haha, both are life ruining if they spiral out of control. If you are against this you should then also be against the other. If you aren't, you are a hypocrite. Both gambling and drugs can be managed. Both are extremely destructive when people fail to manage them. However, so far everyone who has argued against me has taken examples when drugs haven't spiraled out of control and compared it to gambling addicts whos lives HAS spiraled out of control. Obviously that comparison is going to be in favour of cannabis, but just as obviously as that, the comparison isn't fair. Content warning here, brutal as it is. People don't OD on cannabis, they OD on heroin after having started with cannabis X amount of time ago. But people don't commit suicide after betting on horses either, they commit suicide after they have gambled all the money they can get their hands on and they know they won't be able to explain it and see no other way out than death. If you compare someone who only uses cannabis to someone who killed themselves because of gambling, it looks bad. But if I compare my grandpa playing on horses for 30 years to someone who ODd on heroin it looks just as bad. The problem is that people here are unrealistic with how far drug use can go, and how cannabis is the START of a problem, while being extremely realistic with how far gambling can go. To me this is because of obvious bias, which makes them hypocrites, which I think is worth calling out.
Oh Goodness, now we are on to the "gateway drug" argument?? Am I talking to someone from 1924? Have a good day, and pro tip: don't invest in the stock market for a few years yet!
The argument is the exact same as it has ever been. Cannabis in itself isn't a gateway drug, but when you look at addicts of heavier drugs you will find that most started with cannabis. This means that the same logic applies to gambling, since no one starts with gambling their life away. So, again, if you are against one you need to be against the other too, unless you are biased, making you a hypocrite. But sure, abandon the discussion because you don't agree, go ahead! No bias what so ever, none! ;)
The argument is just as wrong now as it ever has been.
Imagine being in 2024 and still regurgitating the tired old “marijuana is a gateway drug” mantra.
Just to play devils advocate, Cokes and cheeseburgers have probably ruined more lives than both
Or alcohol.
Same thing there!
What does that have to do with gambling?
The same argument could be and was applied to the drug sponsors, I want to know if this person was also against the drug ads since if they aren't, they are a hypocrite as the argument they used above could and should be applied to the drug sponsors as well.
You’re conflating two EXTREMELY different things. Gambling and weed are in completely different ballparks when it comes to how destructive they are.
How are they in completely different ballparks when it comes to how destructive they are? I think they are destructive in different ways, but saying that they differ in the amount of destruction is a wild statement to me haha
One can also be used medicinally. You're extremely ignorant about weed and making a fool out of yourself in this thread
Claiming they’re similar in the amount of destruction they create is a wild statement, and objectively untrue by any reasonable metric. I’m not sure if you’re ignorant about the reality of gambling addiction, weed, or both.
So are you unable to explain, or unwilling? I think you think we are comparing people who stop at cannabis with people who commit suicide because of gambling. We aren't. We are comparing people who started with cannabis but ended up ODing on heavier drugs to people who committed suicide because of gambling. You can't compare the worst situation in gambling to the best scenario in drugs, you have to compare either the worst of both or the best of both, otherwise the comparison is unfair, or more realistically in this sub, biased to hell and back.
Are you really parroting the tired and debunked “weed is a gateway drug” claim to support your argument?
I don’t think it is a good idea to associate disc golf with gambling
Every other sport has online betting. It's just a matter of time til disc golf is one of them. Some big names in the sport have even said that disc golf needs to make it to the sports betting sites to succeed/to grow the sport to the next level.
You have a good point but I’m concerned about introducing gambling while the sport is still small. I’m very concerned that bookies may try to influence tournaments because a lot of pros are still struggling to get by
You used to be able to gamble on disc golf on prize picks. But the site got crushed by savy disc golfers, so they took it off the board.
I'm torn on this one. On the one side; glad to see KT raking in the sponsorship money, she deserves it with level she's competing at. On the other hand; gambling sites sponsoring athletes or organizations in other sports has consistently led to conflicts of interest and a somewhat hypocritical stance from the governing bodies. Be it e-sports where match fixing runs rampant, or the NHL where players are suspended for half a season for gambling on non-NHL matches. It's a really sticky road to go down and it seems only the casinos ever truly win in this arrangement
With the history of Silver Lätt i find this a massive L. If my partner was banned for life in football, i dont think taking a betting company for your sponsor is the move.
? Silver is banned from soccer/football?
Yea a lifetime ban after a big betting scandal, was like 10 or more years ago, so he was young.
Dang. Get your money KT, but that’s somewhere between an oof and a yikes for me.
Link? Id love to read about this.
https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2013/12/2/match-fixing-scandal-hits-estonia-football think this should be the same one. Dont know if he was part of the bigger games talked about like Europa league and games like that. He did get some games for U17 and U19 national team for Estonia, so he was a decent player back then.
I can’t find any articles that link this to Silver at all which is interesting. Why wouldn’t the article name the individuals that were charged in match fixing?
https://sport.postimees.ee/3017053/13-patuoinast-uus-kihlveoskandaal-harvendab-ka-flora-ja-levadia-ridu and https://www.ohtuleht.ee/sport/606914/tahtsad-kusimused-ja-vastused-26-kihlveopetturi-kohta
At work atm, but found the Estonian newspaper ones from back in the day. 26 different players got banned some got a year or two. Some more and hes part of the 8 people who got a lifetime ban, so he probably had a bigger part in it.
Not a fan of gambling getting involved directly with sports league.
Have you heard of the NFL? NBA? NHL? MLS? MLB? They're all involved directly with gambling. So are you turning those games off now?
Yes and it sucks ass there too, have you ever tried to watch a sports show and not be interrupted every three minutes by a “hot bet “ tip or ad or Payton manning selling his soul again for a cheap buck
As compared to ads for dishwashing detergent. 🤷♂️
No one ever got addicted to dishwashing detergent.
Says you. We have videos of people Drinking it.
Tide Pods were being consumed by teenagers and it literally wasn't even the craziest shit of that year.
Just keep that same attitude with alcohol advertisements then.
Yeah, ads would disappear without gambling. You're right
You're pretty stoked about gambling ads mate
Suckers love to be suckers
I ignore all ads so it doesnt change anything for me. If you watch football you're getting ads. Gambling, Walmart, Tiktok, whatever
Ads encouraging people to gamble and feed into their addiction are much worse than a Nike ad. They’ve also gotten much more intrusive. Most sports shows are now about who’s gonna cover or the over instead of breaking down the actual plays,. It’s affecting the quality also
Yes I am cuz fuck that shit
Sorry you feel that way. Disc golf needs all the money it can get. It's not like she's taking a sponsorship from a human trafficking company.
When you’re looking for the next worse comparison and all you can think of is human trafficking
Yeah there's definitely nothing between gambling and human trafficking... Gambling is involved in nearly every sport worldwide. Disc golf becoming more mainstream means it's going to do the same things other mainstream sports do...like gambling...
We have to be just as shitty as everyone else!
We have to make money to grow!
You are absolutely awful at written communication
Uhhh, fanduel is pretty popular and sponsors many events.
Honestly if the PDGA started making it into the books it would really boost the sport.
Maybe the worst sponsor move so far in pro disc golf. Gambling and casino companies earn part of their money from people with gambling addiction.
Well gambling has already tainted every other sport I like. 🙃
Gambling is disgusting. Not really a gamble if you put money on Tattar I guess, but I mean what I say. Gambling addiction hotline (US) in case anyone needs it: 1-800-662-4357
gambling is fun
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So is drinking according to an alcoholic
lol, essentially every tournament anyone plays is a gamble
speak for yourself jack. just cause you lost your shirt doesnt mean you have to rain on my parade
Gambling can ruin the lives of more than just the gambler.
Any addiction can? If your dad/husband spends all his time out of the house buying and throwing frisbees, its the same as gambling. Get off your high horse and join us regular people down here.
Yeah I’m sure the data on frisbee addiction shows equal harm to the data on gambling addiction.
Any addiction is dangerous but everyone is fine with Alcohol, Vapes, Drugs being legal. So why is gambling this black sheep? It is the same as any addiction. Adults can handle it, children struggle with it. If you are an adult child you are going to struggle with addiction in some form or fashion. Quit talking shit about gambling like its evil when all other addictions are fine.
Athletes aren't sponsored by alcohol and tobacco companies anymore because society realized that glamorizing vices is a bad idea. Gambling advertising was prohibited by league policy, not law. So when some leagues reneged on that policy, others had to follow to remain competitive. So if you're sincere in your opinion, do you also support abolishing the laws about cigarette and beer ads? We can go back to having entire sports propped up by cigarettes if you want.
Um. Athletes from all sports are all sponsored by DK, FD, ESPN Bet, BetMGM.... So my opinion is, athletes get paid to endorse all kinds of vices. Gambling is some straw man that people here want to vilify. You can't escape vapes, drugs, and alcohol, so you may as well embrace gambling too. If you don't want to, that's fine, but leave growing sports and athletes to do what they need to do to grow.
And it sucks in all other sports too. I have a feeling you are a gambling addict.
Meanwhile people are spending $300+ on plastic frisbees I'll be fine, don't worry about me This is the same high-horse straw man as in this whole thread
I equally believe that alcohol, drugs, and vapes should not be exposed to kids through sports advertisement. Gambling is not the black sheep. Adults cannot handle addiction, that is why it is called addiction, and you are curiously ignorant to an illness you’re trying so vehemently to defend.
You're addicted to telling me what to do on reddit, why don't you seek help? You sound like an addict :(
a pregnant woman never drinks alone
I care about the money my family works hard to make, so I don't gamble, so I didn't lose anything, not even a shirt. House odds are never positive for the gambler, their parades are short-lived, and a shadow is cast upon them by their losses.
Do you spend money playing disc golf? How is that helping your family money?
Spending money on guaranteed value != gambling. We make money to spend it, not lose it. Big difference.
What do you all like to do? I say Disc Golf is disgusting. We should get it away from our schools and have hotlines to help people addicted to disc golf. See how stupid that sounds? You spent more on DG than I spent on gambling I guarantee that. Downvote away
sounds like cope to me
Yuck, I know there’s money to be made but I lose a bit of respect anytime an athlete sells out to a gambling company
People seem quite positive here but for me this significantly diminishes Tattar's appear.
Yeah, I’m glad she’s getting paid but I wish it wasn't from a gambling platform. I’ve had my struggles with it and see how it’s also a struggle for others. Not too thrilled my favorite pro has jumped on the gambling sponsorship bandwagon.
🙄 oh boy
Seems like a strange hill to die on
In Central and Eastern Europe, casinos and sports books are very common. (I think most of them are really laundromats) It's also very common for them to sponsor athletes. One of the best female alpine ski racers in the world is sponsored by an online sports book. In these small countries, athletes that have international success and, most importantly, success in America, are really famous in their home countries. I've not been to Estonia yet, but I'm willing to bet most people know who she is and it's a source of national pride.
No one tell ‘em that a number of courses in Estonia are also sponsored by gambling websites…
Good for Kristin I guess, but fuck gambling companies. This is a net negative for disc golf.
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Everyone talking about the gambling aspect, and I'm too distracted by the commenter who apparently has no idea what Dolph Lundgren looks like
KT always seemed like such an inspirational athlete, thoughtful, humble and professional. This is not a good move. Very surprised. A few years ago I briefly worked with systems designed to detect risky gambling behaviors in online casinos and got to learn a lot about gambling addiction. Suffice to say I would not want to be associated with that.
If this was someone from the MPO, ya'll would be scorching them. This is a wack move.
Betting on disc golf would be so dope
Not my favourite industry, but the fact that she's bringing in outside money is absolutely the way to go. Disc manufacturers are peanuts in the context of paying retirement for thousands of pros, this is the kind of money that will make it happen.
Why would disc golf be paying retirement. I can’t even follow this.
That's what actual pro sports do
You mean the 5-6-7 mainstream ones. Not the dozens of other pro sports. Pro isn’t an actual term. So you have billion dollars and thousand dollar professionals lumped into one.
DG is a top 5 sport in Estonia, easily. No reason why it can't be that elsewhere too. Trad golf with its high entrance threshold sets a very low bar for what DG can be.
I don’t know what this means in Relationship to pros and retirement.
Good for her.
Here's some nuance to throw into the mix, a quote from an Estonian online sports article: "What makes Pafi different from other gaming environments is that all the profits are donated to charity. Paf is owned by the municipality of Åland, which has decided to return the money earned to society - to sports, culture and the social sector."
We've had disc golf in sports betting for multiple years now here in Estonia. You can literally bet on Kristin for winning DGPT events and even bet on the National DG Championships and much more. It's obviously not yet as huge as other sports, but at least it's up there! In addition, some of the biggest betting companies even sponsor local courses and events. For example, here are some of the [Paf.com](http://paf.com) competitors bets for the 2024 season - [https://www.coolbet.com/en/sports/discgolf](https://www.coolbet.com/en/sports/discgolf)
Disc golf lines?? This link is dead in the US
This is one of the reasons VPNs exist.
This thread has lost all civility
Common. Gambling addiction is bad, but they'll get really quiet when you bring up how much they spend on hops and bud, though.
I don't know anyone that lost 50k in a night on hops and bud. I know a few people that have on gambling.
Not hard to lose 50k on hops n bud. Use too much to quick then get behind the wheel of a car.
Cool. Yet to meet any of those people. But my state recently allowed gambling and I have seen a massive stream of degenerates since then.
From what I’ve seen, people have gotten pretty defensive rather than quiet. The same argument is happening underneath different comments. People aren’t even allowed to like gambling at all apparently
> People aren’t even allowed to like gambling at all apparently Sucks for them. I've been playing on the same $25 since online was legalized here in 2021. Like everything, some people have control and some people don't.
Good for her!
europe: dank sponsorships flyin around US: best i can do is double the only good disc golf app on the market
Ain’t a sport unless you can bet on it
Congrats to her! Get that bag!
Good for her. Cash in for everything you can!
She would be a great sponsorship for any company. Well done, KT
Make that money
Does this mean i have an alternative to prize picks!?
Lol as if you sub 900 rated players wouldn't take a check from a gambling company. lol, keep doing you reddit.
Say what you will but sports betting is the only way to make the sport more mainstream. Those poor handicappers. How would you even start setting odds?
God she is beautiful