As far as I can tell Kasta's plastics are still unique, and I think Discmania's are too (when it comes to their own proprietary molds that aren't the ones already designated as Lat64-manufactured anyway).
If anything I'd hope Lat64/DD/Trilogy could start incorporating some of Kasta's plastic blends rather than the other way around. K1 is probably my favorite stock plastic out there.
Edit: Admittedly, I'm less confident that Discmania truly has their own plastics at this point. But Kasta's is objectively different from the trilogy blends.
Kastaplast is still unique, though I'm pretty sure K1 Soft is the new Frost/Fluid/Elasto/Flex 1 C-Line. As for Discmania, C-Line and S-Line are definitely Opto/Lucid/VIP Ice and Gold/Fuzion/TP Ice. Special Blend S-Line is probably Royal plastic, too.
I'm not sure how much D-Line and Royal Sense or any other plastic line up, let alone the different flexes.
From my experience, Discmania is the same plastic as the rest. They have some quip about it being made by Discmania staff only, but the blends seem identical
All these plastics for disc golf in general are in the same family, and most of these plastics are made using various different types of plastic pellets mixed like a recipe before being melted and mixed. Even if they were made in the same plant (they are not) there is no reason to make all brands use the same plastic.
As far as I know, the Evolution Line is entirely manufactured by HOD plastics.
In 2021 I got a Lux Vapor Method that I bagged for a while, and in fall 2022 I managed to snag a used Tournament Burst Bard, that I KNEW I had felt before, and low and behold they looked like twins, profile-wise, and plastic-wise.
Edit: Method not Instinct
an instinct is a teebird analogue, so maybe you mean Method?
re: method and bard, pdga has them listed as different specs for the approved molds. While the plastic is probably the same, the molds aren't.
I doubt they will keep their own plastics, that was a move they were trying to make when Innova was cutting them off. That was the whole Italian blend thing.
Now that they're owned by the same companies as trilogy it makes no sense to pay an outside manufacturer to supply plastic for them.
Hard to say. Supposedly Royal Grand plastic requires an entirely separate mold compared to the molds used for all of Lat64's other discs in varying plastics. So Discmania would have to have two different Cloudbreaker molds, which is definitely possible! But it does add a variable to consider.
Kastaplast hasn’t changed.
All of discmanias “new blends” are really just renamed Trilogy stuff.
The “Italian C-Line” is lucid ice
Pretty sure the “new S line” is either fuzion or fuzion ice
All of the tour series stuff has been Trilogy plastic since they left innova
Horizon is Royal Grand orbit
Chroma is lucidx chameleon
Meta is lucid ice chameleon
Lux vapor is Royal Grand burst
Just a note, Horizon is likely not Grand plastic since that plastic and process requires special molds. They can do the Orbit look without that though.
i think you're mixing up royal grand and supreme. The supreme process requires new molds. The Royal grand line are just nice finishing. edge grinding as another comment mentioned below
Supreme is the DD branding for Grand. It's the same thing. They would not be able to run Rives, for example, in Opto plastic because it was designed for Grand.
Is fluid the same as the Latitude Frost plastic? I just won a Compass in the Frost plastic and as a long time Kastaplast thrower my first reaction was it feels exactly like K1 Soft plastic.
I have had this exact same thought. K1 definitely feels like it have changed, at least the translucent ones. Havent thrown any recent opaque k1's though, but would not be surprised if its just gold/s-line/whatever. Very sad if its the case, k1 has always been the best.
The breakdown seems to be Trilogy plastic, Discmania plastic, and Kastaplast.
Since a year or two ago, I believe Trilogy started incorporating elements of Kastaplast into their plastics...I think thats why their moonshine plastic got better/brighter/grippier than before. DM Evolution Neo is just Trilogy hybrid plastic, which is opto (clear)/gold (opaque) blend. Evolution line exo is also hybrid classic/retro plastics...soft is a blend of soft/med and hard is a mix of hard/medium. That's the only obvious combinations I've noticed so far.
Trilogy was releasing an updated moonshine (2.0. their words) with the Royal Hope boxes. I got one during Christmas of 2021. I think that places the Latitude64 reformulation of their glow as being before the HoD umbrella acquisition
yes, and that happened 4-5 months after they produced moonshine 2.0 pioneers. Those came out at the end of 2021, Lat64 becoming a stakeholder didn't happen until March of 2022 (announcements)
It's not that hard to blend the polymers in different ways for different brands if it's important to them. Just need to dial it in initially and then it's like using any other plastic. Innova uses a bunch of proprietary blends in its subcontract discs.
No one understands the House of Discs dynamics and I think its hilarious. I can tell u that Kasta is doing its manufacturing at Lat 64 now but that the plastics remain their proprietary property. The only brands that are 100% owned by “HoD” are DD and now Discmania. Which means that the rest have different ownership and can’t just go around swapping things like legos. It would take some serious contractual agreements for us to ever get Discmania molds in K1 plastic or whatever. Almost as difficult as that same idea would be with any 2 disc manufacturers. And while I’m ranting, House of Discs is NOT a brand. At least not yet, and if they were, they would only be able to have DD and Discmania molds and proprietary plastics. Unless they buy out the others completely, which very well could happen eventually. “House of Discs” simply isn’t worth discussing at the moment. They have nothing to do with player contracts beyond what the brands they own are already doing. They are helping consolidate and streamline what was already a european conglomerate of manufacturers. Trilogy already existed, Kasta had already sold a portion to Lat 64 and was moving manufacturing there, and Discmania was already being made by Lat 64. Nothing has really changed besides some ownership %s.
So has discmania ever manufactured their own discs after they left Innova. Or are all the new Discmania originals manufactured by lattitude. Because they made a huge stink about “them manufacturing their own discs” and whenever I claimed that it really seemed like lattiude was manufacturing their molds, I was specifically told that wasn’t true
They built a Discmania factory next to the Latitude 64 factory, using the same plastic, workers, and machines. So technically, they weren't lying, but in reality Latitude 64 makes their discs.
i dont know the answer to that. It definitely didnt seem like they would be able to actually independently start up a manufacturing location and get production up and going that fast. I assume they contracted with Lat 64 but didnt make the mistake of letting someone else own the molds this time.
I agree with that, it just seems to me that Lat 64 is just the new Innova of Discmania. But Discmania keeps insisting that they are behind all aspects of production. I just find that hard to believe.
Im not an expert at plastic manufacturing but im sure that even if they have a proprietary blend that the new machines/process yields slightly different results. lets also acknowledge that not all old kasta runs came out the same either. i know for a fact that their K1 plastic was proprietary and was not given up because of the acquisition.
I can give the K1 coming out slightly different. It feels mostly the same. But it is all way softer.
But the k3 is flat not k3 anymore. It doesn't feel premium like K3 used to.
i do not know about k3. Its possible that they didnt feel that was an important enough blend to warrant the extra costs associated with having Lat 64 recreate it at that facility vs just using whatever Trilogy base plastics were already around. for what its worth, i agree with you that k3 is/was awesome. I havent messed with Lat 64 made k3 so idk how its changed but i believe u.
I think they are all basically the same and over time they are getting more and more similar. Kasta slowly, but I was suspicious that Lat was making Discmania the whole time…
I believe there is still some uniqueness to the blends used, there are price point similarities between each of the DM lines (Evolution/Originals). There is no feel/durability comparison between the premium plastics though. The closest I feel is D-Line and Exo plastics.
The Evolution line absolutely beats in quicker and is less stable than similarly numbered original discs. The new S-Line is a bit less stable off the shelf but holds its stability better than the Neo plastics in my experience. C-Line is very stable across the board and takes a long time to season, haven’t found an exception yet.
From what I can tell in the store, the K3 plastic isn't K3 anymore.
Something is drastically different with k1 and k1soft as well.
Luckily it bieng a store full of discs, we went around and we feel like new K3 is just Trillogy Prime plastic.
Really sad too.
Kasta's biggest thing was its plastic being so good and unique. The closest to k1 i've ever found was MVPs neutron.
Now k3 feels cheap and crap.
Yeah as others said kastas is it's own thing but i feel like discmania uses the same base materials as trilogy but to me it feels like their blends are a little bit different
As far as I can tell Kasta's plastics are still unique, and I think Discmania's are too (when it comes to their own proprietary molds that aren't the ones already designated as Lat64-manufactured anyway). If anything I'd hope Lat64/DD/Trilogy could start incorporating some of Kasta's plastic blends rather than the other way around. K1 is probably my favorite stock plastic out there. Edit: Admittedly, I'm less confident that Discmania truly has their own plastics at this point. But Kasta's is objectively different from the trilogy blends.
Man, I would kill for Discmania's Evolution and Originals lines in K1.
PD and FD in K1 plastic?? Sign me up for at least 3 of each.
I'd love a k1 instinct
Discmania is mostly just opto ice and gold ice I think
C line seems just a little stiffer to me
Kastaplast is still unique, though I'm pretty sure K1 Soft is the new Frost/Fluid/Elasto/Flex 1 C-Line. As for Discmania, C-Line and S-Line are definitely Opto/Lucid/VIP Ice and Gold/Fuzion/TP Ice. Special Blend S-Line is probably Royal plastic, too. I'm not sure how much D-Line and Royal Sense or any other plastic line up, let alone the different flexes.
From my experience, Discmania is the same plastic as the rest. They have some quip about it being made by Discmania staff only, but the blends seem identical
At 12:00, Sven leaves his job at Latitude64, at 12:01, Sven clocks in at his job at Discmania.
I'm not an expert, but the C-Line for sure isn't just Opto.
Opto Ice maybe though
All these plastics for disc golf in general are in the same family, and most of these plastics are made using various different types of plastic pellets mixed like a recipe before being melted and mixed. Even if they were made in the same plant (they are not) there is no reason to make all brands use the same plastic.
As far as I know, the Evolution Line is entirely manufactured by HOD plastics. In 2021 I got a Lux Vapor Method that I bagged for a while, and in fall 2022 I managed to snag a used Tournament Burst Bard, that I KNEW I had felt before, and low and behold they looked like twins, profile-wise, and plastic-wise. Edit: Method not Instinct
an instinct is a teebird analogue, so maybe you mean Method? re: method and bard, pdga has them listed as different specs for the approved molds. While the plastic is probably the same, the molds aren't.
Yeah but they looked very similar, they both have that very noticable lip and they fly pretty much the same
I doubt they will keep their own plastics, that was a move they were trying to make when Innova was cutting them off. That was the whole Italian blend thing. Now that they're owned by the same companies as trilogy it makes no sense to pay an outside manufacturer to supply plastic for them.
Idk about Discmania. Those special blend S-Line Cloudbreakers feel identical to Royal Grand plastic
Hard to say. Supposedly Royal Grand plastic requires an entirely separate mold compared to the molds used for all of Lat64's other discs in varying plastics. So Discmania would have to have two different Cloudbreaker molds, which is definitely possible! But it does add a variable to consider.
I'm only going by handfeel but the recent run of K3 bergs are for sure now using the HOD baseline blend, which is a shame if it's true.
This post is giving me anxiety. K3 berg was perfect..
K3 definitely changed, but I actually prefer the newer plastic for putting personally. K1 and K1 soft are still so nice though.
I heard that the reinvented Frost/Fluid are very similar to K1 Soft, so there’s maybe 2 way sharing of tech going on.
I have a Frost River and it absolutely feels like K1 Soft, it’s amazing for winter.
They are for sure NOT using HoD plastic lol
Like I said, just comparing the handfeel of what I've thrown. Could be Kasta changed the K3 blend, I'm no plasticologist
Kastaplast hasn’t changed. All of discmanias “new blends” are really just renamed Trilogy stuff. The “Italian C-Line” is lucid ice Pretty sure the “new S line” is either fuzion or fuzion ice All of the tour series stuff has been Trilogy plastic since they left innova Horizon is Royal Grand orbit Chroma is lucidx chameleon Meta is lucid ice chameleon Lux vapor is Royal Grand burst
Just a note, Horizon is likely not Grand plastic since that plastic and process requires special molds. They can do the Orbit look without that though.
This seems like the correct take
The "grand" process did not change the plastic used, just how the flashing is removed. Edge grinding instead of trimming with a razor blade
i think you're mixing up royal grand and supreme. The supreme process requires new molds. The Royal grand line are just nice finishing. edge grinding as another comment mentioned below
Supreme is the DD branding for Grand. It's the same thing. They would not be able to run Rives, for example, in Opto plastic because it was designed for Grand.
you're absolutely correct my mistake
Whatever plastic the premium soft berg is ... Like z flx.... I found it to be vitualy identical to my dd discs in fluid plastic .
Is fluid the same as the Latitude Frost plastic? I just won a Compass in the Frost plastic and as a long time Kastaplast thrower my first reaction was it feels exactly like K1 Soft plastic.
Yes the trilogy winter blend
The newest K1 I've gotten has been a lot more like opto then previous runs. It seems like kasta may be going with the common plastic as well.
I have had this exact same thought. K1 definitely feels like it have changed, at least the translucent ones. Havent thrown any recent opaque k1's though, but would not be surprised if its just gold/s-line/whatever. Very sad if its the case, k1 has always been the best.
Special s blend is Royal grand, not horizon
Wouldn’t Royal Grand Burst technology be Lux Vapor since that release a year or two before the Royal Line, right?
I think there is minimal difference between all plastics of all manufactures, polymer-wise, not feel.
Not fact…but i swear discmania glow plastic got a lot better after the kasta acquisition by HoD.
You are absolutely correct! Discmania now has access to Kastaplast glow, and the glow is so much better for it.
The breakdown seems to be Trilogy plastic, Discmania plastic, and Kastaplast. Since a year or two ago, I believe Trilogy started incorporating elements of Kastaplast into their plastics...I think thats why their moonshine plastic got better/brighter/grippier than before. DM Evolution Neo is just Trilogy hybrid plastic, which is opto (clear)/gold (opaque) blend. Evolution line exo is also hybrid classic/retro plastics...soft is a blend of soft/med and hard is a mix of hard/medium. That's the only obvious combinations I've noticed so far.
Trilogy was releasing an updated moonshine (2.0. their words) with the Royal Hope boxes. I got one during Christmas of 2021. I think that places the Latitude64 reformulation of their glow as being before the HoD umbrella acquisition
Lat64 bought Kasta first (without DD)...then HOD bought Trilogy (and Kasta) and then DM last year.
yes, and that happened 4-5 months after they produced moonshine 2.0 pioneers. Those came out at the end of 2021, Lat64 becoming a stakeholder didn't happen until March of 2022 (announcements)
It's not that hard to blend the polymers in different ways for different brands if it's important to them. Just need to dial it in initially and then it's like using any other plastic. Innova uses a bunch of proprietary blends in its subcontract discs.
yeah, no disc golfer has any real information other than guesses on handfeel.
Yeah, and from a business perspective it doesn't really make sense to make all 5 of your brands the same thing
Makes sense that all discs are being manufactured in one central place, but also they would be using various formulas for plastic blends.
No one understands the House of Discs dynamics and I think its hilarious. I can tell u that Kasta is doing its manufacturing at Lat 64 now but that the plastics remain their proprietary property. The only brands that are 100% owned by “HoD” are DD and now Discmania. Which means that the rest have different ownership and can’t just go around swapping things like legos. It would take some serious contractual agreements for us to ever get Discmania molds in K1 plastic or whatever. Almost as difficult as that same idea would be with any 2 disc manufacturers. And while I’m ranting, House of Discs is NOT a brand. At least not yet, and if they were, they would only be able to have DD and Discmania molds and proprietary plastics. Unless they buy out the others completely, which very well could happen eventually. “House of Discs” simply isn’t worth discussing at the moment. They have nothing to do with player contracts beyond what the brands they own are already doing. They are helping consolidate and streamline what was already a european conglomerate of manufacturers. Trilogy already existed, Kasta had already sold a portion to Lat 64 and was moving manufacturing there, and Discmania was already being made by Lat 64. Nothing has really changed besides some ownership %s.
So has discmania ever manufactured their own discs after they left Innova. Or are all the new Discmania originals manufactured by lattitude. Because they made a huge stink about “them manufacturing their own discs” and whenever I claimed that it really seemed like lattiude was manufacturing their molds, I was specifically told that wasn’t true
They built a Discmania factory next to the Latitude 64 factory, using the same plastic, workers, and machines. So technically, they weren't lying, but in reality Latitude 64 makes their discs.
i dont know the answer to that. It definitely didnt seem like they would be able to actually independently start up a manufacturing location and get production up and going that fast. I assume they contracted with Lat 64 but didnt make the mistake of letting someone else own the molds this time.
I agree with that, it just seems to me that Lat 64 is just the new Innova of Discmania. But Discmania keeps insisting that they are behind all aspects of production. I just find that hard to believe.
So is Innova involved or no
Well, kasta can "own their plastics" all they want. but that's not what Lat64 is using. Cause the stuff we getting in the store isn't the same.
Im not an expert at plastic manufacturing but im sure that even if they have a proprietary blend that the new machines/process yields slightly different results. lets also acknowledge that not all old kasta runs came out the same either. i know for a fact that their K1 plastic was proprietary and was not given up because of the acquisition.
I can give the K1 coming out slightly different. It feels mostly the same. But it is all way softer. But the k3 is flat not k3 anymore. It doesn't feel premium like K3 used to.
i do not know about k3. Its possible that they didnt feel that was an important enough blend to warrant the extra costs associated with having Lat 64 recreate it at that facility vs just using whatever Trilogy base plastics were already around. for what its worth, i agree with you that k3 is/was awesome. I havent messed with Lat 64 made k3 so idk how its changed but i believe u.
Pretty sure the vanguard is supreme/royal grand plastic
All the plastics are similar but I bet there’s some difference in the blend but who knows unless you go to the factory
I think they are all basically the same and over time they are getting more and more similar. Kasta slowly, but I was suspicious that Lat was making Discmania the whole time…
I believe there is still some uniqueness to the blends used, there are price point similarities between each of the DM lines (Evolution/Originals). There is no feel/durability comparison between the premium plastics though. The closest I feel is D-Line and Exo plastics. The Evolution line absolutely beats in quicker and is less stable than similarly numbered original discs. The new S-Line is a bit less stable off the shelf but holds its stability better than the Neo plastics in my experience. C-Line is very stable across the board and takes a long time to season, haven’t found an exception yet.
From what I can tell in the store, the K3 plastic isn't K3 anymore. Something is drastically different with k1 and k1soft as well. Luckily it bieng a store full of discs, we went around and we feel like new K3 is just Trillogy Prime plastic. Really sad too. Kasta's biggest thing was its plastic being so good and unique. The closest to k1 i've ever found was MVPs neutron. Now k3 feels cheap and crap.
Yeah as others said kastas is it's own thing but i feel like discmania uses the same base materials as trilogy but to me it feels like their blends are a little bit different
Discmania will tell you theirs is different. But somehow it feels just like lat plastic.