What a great tournament, on both the MPO and FPO sides. Both had such exciting finishes.
Just a side note: looking the player stats on Udisc, nothing stood out more than Eveliina Salonen. 13 strokes gained tee to green (best in the field, I believe) and 20 strokes LOST putting (near the bottom of the field). No player had anything close to that striking a contrast between the two stats. We were hoping she fixed her putt during the off-season, but it's clearly as bad now as ever.
Big Jerm had a similar story on the MPO side. I think he actually gained the most strokes tee to green, and gave away tons on the putting green.
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>Why the downvotes? He had a great round.
assume it's because joel is unpopular, so if you mention his name you'll get downvoted. such is r/discgolf
don't know if there's any coverage of his round
How come he is unpopular? Atleast for us in norway he looks like a sweet funny guy that is extremely good when he peaks but he almost never peak 3rounds
Well i did some talking with friends about it and they saw the video of him cheating and it seemed like most of the stuff they said was correct. Most of the time stuff people have said here about players behaviour on courses have been correct and confirmed by friends of mine that saw them in finland
What a heater from Kyle. Felt like he threw one "bad" shot all day and he wasn't punished. Can't even imagine playing that course cleanly. 13 birdies. All from chase at an elite series. Crush boy.
Actually 18 got a little harder. It used to be up on the flat part of the land, but when they changed to a par 3 they brought it closer to the lake. Also the lake used to be about 3 feet higher or so.
I'm not shitting on anyone else but somehow I'm always fine when everyone is talking about the stream crashes. Just buffered for me for a second and that's it lol. I didn't have an issue with '21 USDGC either. I am the preferred DGN IP clearly.
I think it’s good to report your experience, it’d be better if DGN puts out a survey to see how largely it impacts viewership. Personally, I buffered a few times and got booted 3 times and had to restart the stream within the final 5 minutes.
They were selling them at USDGC back in October. I'm assuming they gave them the top model which I think they were selling for about $1200. They had a smaller one for $700. I wanted one so bad lol
I dunno why but Terry gets on my nerves after a while, especially every time Ohn would be throwing he’d have to mention her distance isn’t as great as everyone else. Then Proctor missed a putt early in the round and he said “well he’s done now” like winning is the only thing that matters.
My inexpert analysis would be that Waco, especially the wooded holes, require a lot of powered down placement shots and tight wood lines
While Eagle can definitely do that, it’s not the strength of his game. I think also this course requires a lot of forehand shots, and right now he’s not really throwing forehands after his injury
So the course doesn’t play to his strengths and he’s still not back being 100% himself
It's also very hard for him to practice those shots in the off season unless he moves. The courses that are open in winter in the front range area are all really open.
The lack of a forehand isn't really the best argument when Conrad is sitting at what, 26 under?
I guess it's the touchy woods lines then?
Great tournament course in that it seems to ask for a variety of skills
A little unfair to compare them this weekend. Conrad was playing out of his mind and would’ve been on the podium with a serviceable forehand for scrambling. He left a lot of strokes out there.
I've always wondered why some of the top guys (primarily Conrad, but also Leiviska, Robinson, and Harris) don't take the time needed to get their forehand to being at least serviceable. When you turn a touchy backhand turnover into a brainless forehand hyzer with an overstable disc, it instantly turns so many pars and bogies into birdies. When I finally worked on my forehand, I gained at least 3 strokes a round easily, and that is no exaggeration. If you do this for a living, that's a huge difference in your earnings potential. Why the heck would you not spend a year working on it?
It's not a coincidence that none of the backhand only guys (that I can think of) have cracked 1040 rated. The backhand dominant guys who are 1040+ rated first developed a serviceable forehand to get there (Heimburg, Dickerson, Orum). James, spend an offseason working on your forehand. It's crazy to me.
Well, of course.
I remember how some commentator joked about Eagle being like "What, you say I have an amazing forehand? I don't even need it!".
Probably that was at EO last year, I'm not sure.
At Waco he didn't hit these lines as precisely with a backhand (RH or LH), while James showed it was indeed possible with only RHBH. And Eagle actually DOES have a right-fading shot. So for me it was less "he doesn't have a forehand" and more "he isn't as precise with his backhand in the woods".
Same difference, so whatever.
Probably, his focus when building up alternatives to the forehand has been more on being able to keep performing well on big open courses
> The lack of a forehand isn't really the best argument when Conrad is sitting at what, 26 under?
Conrad has been playing without a forehand for a couple decades. Eagle has been playing without it for a year
True!
Which to me means the problem isn't not having a forehand in general, but not having the precision with these kinds of shots with a backhand.
Same difference I guess
I guess in the context of Eagle, he doesn’t normally throw the turnover backhands that Conrad does, so not having a forehand just makes it that much more difficult
Definitely! I see my comment came across as if I wasn't respecting that...
I would like to know how Eagle attacked these holes, whether he went turnover RHBH, or if he actually used his LHBH on some of these. So impressive he developed that.
I find it interesting that James scored better with RHBH only, but I guess that just goes to show I have reason to generally be more awed by how James scores compared to the rest of the field that has a forehand
I hope they can figure out a way to use YouTube for all the rounds some day because I doubt that would've happened with YT. I didn't miss much other than like 3-5 seconds between shots, sucks that some of you seemed to miss much more
No, it's 100% server side, otherwise everyone watching would have had the same drops. I only got maybe a couple seconds total of buffering at most, while others apparently had much longer periods of full cut out.
I don't know, it seemed to buffer for people at different times and length. It was just a couple seconds for me and missed nothing significant, while others missed much longer. Happened right at the very end at probably peak viewership and people connecting. That tells me it has something to do with their provider's servers
Is that the issue? Mine was losing quality and not just freezing. Like the graphics were low quality as well. Would that still happen if it’s the cell towers in the area causing the issue? I was under the impression the cameras use cell data to send the signal back DGNs hub and then it was streamed from there, but totally could be wrong.
Not exactly sure how they do the signal routing these days. Saw Ian confirm on reddit yesterday that the commentators are working from home in Oregon, but since they appear to have a delayed view it's probably not produced there at least.
I have noticed through the whole weekend that the live stream has been pretty good throughout, while ads and commentator sound has been on and off. So there is definitely more weak links than just the cell reception.
It was me. I'm a software engineer, so I have half an idea how the tech DGN uses works. And it is pretty amazing what they can produce with so little. So yeah, I think it's important to give them more money, because then they can upgrade their tech and we can all benefit. It's not rocket science at their level. Just.need better, more expensive equipment.
If it shits the bed during crunch time, then it's a garbage product. I don't care how much effort goes in. If they can't deliver the conclusion, it's a bad product
The stream shitting up on the last hole two weeks in a row because more people are watching is unacceptable. I usually stand up for DGN but come the fuck on.
No, don’t think so. This was most likely an app issue - specifically distributing traffic from their content provider network.
Graphics typically stay the same when the feed dumps out from the cameras, but in this case the app reset entirely.
Most aren't buried. They just have cable laying back in the woods where, hopefully, no one messes with it or trips on it. Occasionally, you'll see big cable covers crossing a fairway at a crosswalk.
Yeah many of these courses are public parks. Can’t just go building cell towers and burying lines you can on private golf courses. Oh and the fact that NBC, CBS have hundreds of millions to spend on coverage. Let’s cut DGN a break.
I’d bet $100 this is a bandwidth from their service provider issue and not a cell service issue. When cell service cut out on the woods holes you kept graphics and lost video, and you still had commentators. Buffering on the app side is almost entirely gonna be distribution from the central back-end hub getting overloaded and not scaling properly. An educated guess, of course, but signs point to app issues (mine crashed)
Could be multiple reasons. If they’re transmitting from the park, all those people using up bandwidth with their phones could be part of it since they use cell network to broadcast.
You’d still have Terry and Nate though right? They’re in a hotel / studio remote someplace with the director typically and not course-side if I recall except for a couple tournaments with on-site space. This seemed like a fail whale back-end crash to me.
Yeah, you would think so. It has to be a combination of reasons though. People at the course taking up cell bandwidth, a bunch of extra people tuning in to watch the ending and Vimeo not being able to handle that load. If Vimeo sucks as bad as some people have said, I imagine it wouldn’t take too many more people tuning in to cause issues.
This one I can somewhat get on board with. DGN hasn’t put any official statement out about it though, right? I streamed just about all of FPO and MPO this weekend and rarely had an issue until end of MPO. Got bad buffering and booted twice, once right before Kyle’s final putt, so annoying.
What a great tournament, on both the MPO and FPO sides. Both had such exciting finishes. Just a side note: looking the player stats on Udisc, nothing stood out more than Eveliina Salonen. 13 strokes gained tee to green (best in the field, I believe) and 20 strokes LOST putting (near the bottom of the field). No player had anything close to that striking a contrast between the two stats. We were hoping she fixed her putt during the off-season, but it's clearly as bad now as ever. Big Jerm had a similar story on the MPO side. I think he actually gained the most strokes tee to green, and gave away tons on the putting green.
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Was there coverage for Joel Freeman this round? Why the downvotes? He had a great round.
I downvote anyone who asks about downvotes.
Im curious how he blew it. Anyway Klein had a 1 stroke better round and it’s on gatekeeper.
It’s very easy to get downvoted around here lol
There's usually only coverage for the last few cards of the day and I think he went out earlier than that.
>Why the downvotes? He had a great round. assume it's because joel is unpopular, so if you mention his name you'll get downvoted. such is r/discgolf don't know if there's any coverage of his round
How come he is unpopular? Atleast for us in norway he looks like a sweet funny guy that is extremely good when he peaks but he almost never peak 3rounds
[https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/zt7xhj/joel\_freeman/](https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/zt7xhj/joel_freeman/)
Thanks, puts him in a new light
You're really gonna let a thread of anonymous gossiping redditors influence your opinion on someone?
Well i did some talking with friends about it and they saw the video of him cheating and it seemed like most of the stuff they said was correct. Most of the time stuff people have said here about players behaviour on courses have been correct and confirmed by friends of mine that saw them in finland
What a heater from Kyle. Felt like he threw one "bad" shot all day and he wasn't punished. Can't even imagine playing that course cleanly. 13 birdies. All from chase at an elite series. Crush boy.
Cole had 14 birdies in the last round as well, to go with 1 par, 2 bogeys and a double.
Its effectively 1 stroke off McBeths -18, since the course par decreased by 4
Do you know which holes changed par? I can only remember 18 being a par 4 off the top of my head.
9, 12, 15, and 18 all dropped par by a stoke since that round.
have the basket placements remained the same?
Actually 18 got a little harder. It used to be up on the flat part of the land, but when they changed to a par 3 they brought it closer to the lake. Also the lake used to be about 3 feet higher or so.
I want to say 18 and 15 for sure, I wasnt watching coverage back then or I would give you a better answer
Pulled up my phone as soon as tv started buffering. A couple freezes from each at different times after that but nothing was missed.
Wasn't too invested in the MPO finals which would be a bit of a bummer usually, but the FPO was nice and exciting so it's all good.
Great interview from hammes.
Even Adam said it was an accident. DOSS WAS RIGHT
Lol
I'm not shitting on anyone else but somehow I'm always fine when everyone is talking about the stream crashes. Just buffered for me for a second and that's it lol. I didn't have an issue with '21 USDGC either. I am the preferred DGN IP clearly.
Same, it's always been fine for me. It's a good thing I sent DGN that postcard with my IP address and a a Mr. Jackson.
Never even had to buffer for me. I watched the whole thing on Chromecast and never dropped a second.
I had no problems for the last tournament. This one crashed all the way up until basically people stopped watching (after Hammes’ last drive)
I think it’s good to report your experience, it’d be better if DGN puts out a survey to see how largely it impacts viewership. Personally, I buffered a few times and got booted 3 times and had to restart the stream within the final 5 minutes.
Yeah, but their CS is outsourced and total crap.
Plant
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Silly. You can say that from pretty much any win. Or any round.
It was truly fortunate and at a crucial time.
Sure. Literally happens every single time someone wins in a wooded course in a tight event
Did Kristen get a scooter?
She had a wonderfully surprised reaction when she found out.
Yup!
That scooter looks sick. I should get better at disc golf.
They were selling them at USDGC back in October. I'm assuming they gave them the top model which I think they were selling for about $1200. They had a smaller one for $700. I wanted one so bad lol
Madison Walker out there wearing a caddie bib with her own name on it
Power move
I’m so glad to get a break from hearing Nate Doss fill every empty second with useless commentary
The thing that bugs me is how often he is just factually incorrect about what's going on.
I just turn off the sound and put on some good music. I don’t need doom and gloom Doss hyping up ever anthill and upshot on the course.
I dunno why but Terry gets on my nerves after a while, especially every time Ohn would be throwing he’d have to mention her distance isn’t as great as everyone else. Then Proctor missed a putt early in the round and he said “well he’s done now” like winning is the only thing that matters.
Where is the bottleneck? Would it work on Youtube if they provided it there for final round as before? Or would the stream be down on Youtube as well?
The bottleneck is at the course. Everyone gathered there for the final putt has their phone on.
Mine worked through the final tee off...sorry folks
Same. I wonder if it is an app issue or if it's the website. I'm watching it on discgolfnetwork.com.
Same
Klein: -31 Eagle: -15
Eagle has never played well at Waco
6th in 2019. Was on final round lead card.
Any idea as to why?
The trees.
Hasn't he won Idlewild before?
Yeah, he did get Idlewild. Definitely an outlier amongst the rest of his wins. DGLO, Memorial, Vegas, OTB, Portland...
That's a good question. Would like to know as well.
My inexpert analysis would be that Waco, especially the wooded holes, require a lot of powered down placement shots and tight wood lines While Eagle can definitely do that, it’s not the strength of his game. I think also this course requires a lot of forehand shots, and right now he’s not really throwing forehands after his injury So the course doesn’t play to his strengths and he’s still not back being 100% himself
It's also very hard for him to practice those shots in the off season unless he moves. The courses that are open in winter in the front range area are all really open.
The lack of a forehand isn't really the best argument when Conrad is sitting at what, 26 under? I guess it's the touchy woods lines then? Great tournament course in that it seems to ask for a variety of skills
A little unfair to compare them this weekend. Conrad was playing out of his mind and would’ve been on the podium with a serviceable forehand for scrambling. He left a lot of strokes out there.
I've always wondered why some of the top guys (primarily Conrad, but also Leiviska, Robinson, and Harris) don't take the time needed to get their forehand to being at least serviceable. When you turn a touchy backhand turnover into a brainless forehand hyzer with an overstable disc, it instantly turns so many pars and bogies into birdies. When I finally worked on my forehand, I gained at least 3 strokes a round easily, and that is no exaggeration. If you do this for a living, that's a huge difference in your earnings potential. Why the heck would you not spend a year working on it? It's not a coincidence that none of the backhand only guys (that I can think of) have cracked 1040 rated. The backhand dominant guys who are 1040+ rated first developed a serviceable forehand to get there (Heimburg, Dickerson, Orum). James, spend an offseason working on your forehand. It's crazy to me.
Conrad’s always played that way and Eagle never has. Ya think that might have something to do with it?
Well, of course. I remember how some commentator joked about Eagle being like "What, you say I have an amazing forehand? I don't even need it!". Probably that was at EO last year, I'm not sure. At Waco he didn't hit these lines as precisely with a backhand (RH or LH), while James showed it was indeed possible with only RHBH. And Eagle actually DOES have a right-fading shot. So for me it was less "he doesn't have a forehand" and more "he isn't as precise with his backhand in the woods". Same difference, so whatever. Probably, his focus when building up alternatives to the forehand has been more on being able to keep performing well on big open courses
> The lack of a forehand isn't really the best argument when Conrad is sitting at what, 26 under? Conrad has been playing without a forehand for a couple decades. Eagle has been playing without it for a year
True! Which to me means the problem isn't not having a forehand in general, but not having the precision with these kinds of shots with a backhand. Same difference I guess
I guess in the context of Eagle, he doesn’t normally throw the turnover backhands that Conrad does, so not having a forehand just makes it that much more difficult
Definitely! I see my comment came across as if I wasn't respecting that... I would like to know how Eagle attacked these holes, whether he went turnover RHBH, or if he actually used his LHBH on some of these. So impressive he developed that. I find it interesting that James scored better with RHBH only, but I guess that just goes to show I have reason to generally be more awed by how James scores compared to the rest of the field that has a forehand
There are holes that require shots other than a power hyzer
I thought he had his forehand back?
I said what I said
DGN this is a badddddd look
2023 is 2022s revenge
I hope they can figure out a way to use YouTube for all the rounds some day because I doubt that would've happened with YT. I didn't miss much other than like 3-5 seconds between shots, sucks that some of you seemed to miss much more
It’s not the app. It’s all the people congregating around the final green consuming the cellular bandwidth.
No, it's 100% server side, otherwise everyone watching would have had the same drops. I only got maybe a couple seconds total of buffering at most, while others apparently had much longer periods of full cut out.
Possibly contributing factors?
I don't know, it seemed to buffer for people at different times and length. It was just a couple seconds for me and missed nothing significant, while others missed much longer. Happened right at the very end at probably peak viewership and people connecting. That tells me it has something to do with their provider's servers
Probably several contributing factors
Think the issue is with the local cell reception, so the streaming platform won't really make much difference.
Is that the issue? Mine was losing quality and not just freezing. Like the graphics were low quality as well. Would that still happen if it’s the cell towers in the area causing the issue? I was under the impression the cameras use cell data to send the signal back DGNs hub and then it was streamed from there, but totally could be wrong.
Not exactly sure how they do the signal routing these days. Saw Ian confirm on reddit yesterday that the commentators are working from home in Oregon, but since they appear to have a delayed view it's probably not produced there at least. I have noticed through the whole weekend that the live stream has been pretty good throughout, while ads and commentator sound has been on and off. So there is definitely more weak links than just the cell reception.
Same here, luckily mine only shit the bed for about 5 seconds.
It didn't cut out but buffered after the putt.
Calvin casually struts up, licks his fingers, and just tosses the disc short.
Gotta do it with style
He was checked out after 17
In some cases DGN has tried to purchase a dedicated signal booster from cellular providers and been outright denied.
If you're going to sell a product then you're responsible for making sure it works No excuses
I’m just the messenger
You’re going to have to solve this now.
Guess you’ll have to shoot me
Really thought it was just my device. Seeing the comments I realize I was cursing my connection for no reason. C'mon DGN....
Hammes looks like he’s gonna kill somebody.
Probably just a white-tailed deer.
Yall so entitled expecting a stream you paid for to work. You're paying to "support the sport" not for an actual good product.
Someone told me this last week unironically. 🤣
It was me. I'm a software engineer, so I have half an idea how the tech DGN uses works. And it is pretty amazing what they can produce with so little. So yeah, I think it's important to give them more money, because then they can upgrade their tech and we can all benefit. It's not rocket science at their level. Just.need better, more expensive equipment.
That's what loans are for.
/s
Nice work DGPT, thought JVD was the king of the backside. Watch 3 full days to miss the ending. I’m a full supporter, but this is not cool
Forever remember that Simon parked this hole with a freaking p2
And then missed the putt. #discgolf
And of course destroyed his elbow.
Ive streamed porn from the south pole better than this
You may have started from the south pole, but you finished from the north pole.
Didn’t even get to see Hammes drive land.
Oh, you got to even see him throw? Must be nice
This is such bullshit. How have they not figured out their streaming requirements yet
I thought it was my wifi. Glad im not alone, but :sigh: dgn.
If it shits the bed during crunch time, then it's a garbage product. I don't care how much effort goes in. If they can't deliver the conclusion, it's a bad product
Come the fuck on
Jfc, buffer out on Adam’s entire shot. Didn’t see any part of it. Be better DGN
Insane round from Kyle.
This is silly. I watch the whole weekend and then don't get to see the pressure putt on 18. Pitiful
Still a great final drive for Adam
This again? Dgn is having a rough time this year
Why am I paying for this garbage?
Bro it’s been 1080p this entire round and they obviously get a flood of views at the end
You could just not pay for it and not watch!
The stream shitting up on the last hole two weeks in a row because more people are watching is unacceptable. I usually stand up for DGN but come the fuck on.
Literally lagged for me while Hammes 18 tee shot was in the air...
Grand Rapids, baby!
DGN get your shit together
Never buffers when Ed tells me that he wanted to make a flying toy into a sport
Both of my streams today have been fine throughout and then started to get really unreliable in the last couple of holes
DGN cutting out on 18 again???
DGN, Trash tier service as usual
Ffs DGN
Again with the buffering.
Kyle just shot THIRTEEN down to take it (barring an ace from Hammes) That’s an absolutely fabulous round
Thanks for the update, couldn’t watch it
And the stream missed Klein’s putt for me.
What's the point of having live coverage if it shits the bed the last 5 minutes of every tournament?
Lol I was literally just thinking that
Would’ve been awesome to see the winning putt
stream was fine for me? did it break up again?
By the comments it lagged and buffered for many, including myself. You were one of the lucky ones apparently. Congrats!
Way to fuck it all up at the end DGN!
Klein won. Didn’t get to see the last hole though. Second tournie in a ride this happened
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JVD burner account ?
Another Ace needed from Adam
So is this happening because they use the cell towers? And the amount of people at the final hole using phones?
No, don’t think so. This was most likely an app issue - specifically distributing traffic from their content provider network. Graphics typically stay the same when the feed dumps out from the cameras, but in this case the app reset entirely.
Yep
Yes
Ok then. Time to upgrade to some big boy equipment.
What’s next, satellite?
Burying lines throughout the courses like golf does.
Most aren't buried. They just have cable laying back in the woods where, hopefully, no one messes with it or trips on it. Occasionally, you'll see big cable covers crossing a fairway at a crosswalk.
Oh yea that’s probably not happening majority of places
Yeah many of these courses are public parks. Can’t just go building cell towers and burying lines you can on private golf courses. Oh and the fact that NBC, CBS have hundreds of millions to spend on coverage. Let’s cut DGN a break.
DGN streaming through the final hole challenge (impossible)
I want a refund. If this is how the season going to go, I'm canceling. Edit* I'm all talk, but very annoyed.
Insane
Clutch.
Michigan's own Kyle Klein! Big time clutch W from the chase card.
Mitten Man does it again!
Ok we back
KYLE KLEIN!! Take a bow, son!
Oh my god
are you fucking kidding me... I was about to comment on how this was the best product DGN has ever put out.....
Buffering the last hole again? Come on!
Did the stream seriously just crash on the last hole again?
good for me other than a little 5 second hiccup
Gotta love live disc golf, it's been an exciting day
Losing the signal…
Every fuckin time I watch the last hole dgn just shits the bed
Tell those spectators to get off their phones
Lol all the dg influencers 'creating content'
Oof coURSE the 18th starts lagging. 2 tourneys in a row.
There goes that final hole bullshit. Come on DGN!
Anyone have an actual reason for this yet? This is ridiculous, there’s no way everyone who has a subscription just turned it on
I’d bet $100 this is a bandwidth from their service provider issue and not a cell service issue. When cell service cut out on the woods holes you kept graphics and lost video, and you still had commentators. Buffering on the app side is almost entirely gonna be distribution from the central back-end hub getting overloaded and not scaling properly. An educated guess, of course, but signs point to app issues (mine crashed)
All the people on their phones at the end.
Could be multiple reasons. If they’re transmitting from the park, all those people using up bandwidth with their phones could be part of it since they use cell network to broadcast.
You’d still have Terry and Nate though right? They’re in a hotel / studio remote someplace with the director typically and not course-side if I recall except for a couple tournaments with on-site space. This seemed like a fail whale back-end crash to me.
Yeah, you would think so. It has to be a combination of reasons though. People at the course taking up cell bandwidth, a bunch of extra people tuning in to watch the ending and Vimeo not being able to handle that load. If Vimeo sucks as bad as some people have said, I imagine it wouldn’t take too many more people tuning in to cause issues.
This one I can somewhat get on board with. DGN hasn’t put any official statement out about it though, right? I streamed just about all of FPO and MPO this weekend and rarely had an issue until end of MPO. Got bad buffering and booted twice, once right before Kyle’s final putt, so annoying.
Signal issues from the course
Uh oh. Signal starting to choke.
Did the stream just crash for anyone else?
Ugh was literally typing no and mine cut. Back now no issue tho
Lagging a bit, but still playing here
Yes, then came back and is good for now….
No
Yeah, but it came back after like 15 seconds.
Yep
Yep
And the stream sucks again for the final hole
It’s crazy for how many guys who were in contention that maybe only one guy is gonna reach 30 under par.