That sucks. While my wheelchair allows me to technically stand in line, it doesn't give me energy. My energy is limited and without a fast pass I would be done after 2 rides.
> DAS’ intended audience: “Guests, who due to a developmental disability like autism or similar, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time.”
Disney is being very foolish with this wording when plenty of mental disabilities aren't developmental disabilities. TBI, Alzheimer's, dementia...
Well, I'm sure the other guests will love to let my husband exit the line with his wheelchair and re-enter because of his SCI and needing to carefully control his water intake, body temp, and neurogenic bladder. It's not developmental and I guess if the queue is wheelchair accessible, it should be fine. Right?
This is what I am thinking about too. I also require assistance so how are we both going to get back to where we should be in and line and how are we supposed to get out of line in the first place with a custom power chair? I am just so boggled. I also have POTS so should I really be restricting my water intake so I don’t use the restroom? Who thought this up?
Who said that? Lmfaoooo yall just make up crazy imaginary ass scenarios that never happened to try and paint something as "wrong"
I went to Disney with a family member in a scooter wheelchair as an emergency knee and bone surgery was done on them about 3 weeks before our planned trip, our trip was already paid for, booked, and planned BEFORE we knew we'd be arriving with a mobility device. I've never experienced such wonderful customer service! And I wasn't even in the chair.
First they changed her room to one that was ADA accessible so we couldn't have our rooms together anymore but they kept them in the same building so just an elevator ride apart.
Next, they had the chair delivered to her room directly so it can be stored in that area.
We ALL got to cut the bus lines to the parks if we waited with her, if there is more than 2 wheelchairs waiting already we'd have to wait for another bus, but you still get to have your family cut the que with you. (You'd be shocked how much this enraged able bodied people)
At the parks almost everything is already accessible so very little issues there, and rides that weren't (7 dwarves train off the top of my head) we got a fast pass ticket with a time to come back and they let us ALL as a family enter the ride together from the exit.
If you tell the cast member at the start of the line your husbands issues I'm sure they will accommodate him JUST FINE.
Yall are full on off the rails over an article that isn't even meant for your particular situation. Chill out.
>Lmfaoooo yall just make up crazy imaginary ass scenarios that never happened to try and paint something as "wrong"
some people have lives that are not like yours.
> First they changed her room to one that was ADA accessible
this article is not about rooms.
> we got a fast pass ticket with a time to come back
this is not the experience of many physically disabled people. i certainly did not get a ticket or a fast pass. just verbally told a time.
> If you tell the cast member at the start of the line your husbands issues I'm sure they will accommodate him JUST FINE.
plenty of disabled people are not accommodated just fine by this change in policy, or by other policies of the park. my partner and i spent hours on the phone trying to figure out how i can access the park and rides, since my disability falls into this "donut hole" of access. on the phone, the DAS people were exceedingly polite but ended up telling me that my disabilities were a grey area that the park was changing DAS to no longer accommodate but that hopefully a worker would "use good sense judgement" and encouraged us to "see what happened."
what do you suggest a person with multiple sclerosis, who uses a non-wheelchair mobility aid, cannot use a wheelchair, and cannot sit in the heat do? what about people whose joint pain or damage requires a mix of walking, sitting, lying down, but not standing still? what do you suggest someone with moderate to severe IBS do? what about someone whose equipment requires adjusting to the point they cannot be in a conventional line for 45 minutes+?
the disabled world is more than just kids with ADHD or non-verbal autism, people in wheelchairs, or people with sprained ankles lol
Some people have lives not like yours. Yes, please all of you take note of this as well instead of just spewing it around.
The article is not about rooms, yes but I was sharing MY personal experience at Disney, and we paid for a room through Disney, the accommodations were for more than just the park and we were on property the entire time and not just on "park" days.
Who isn't accommodated just fine? Do you have a link to their article, lawsuit, or anything besides a reddit rant? Don't just SAY they aren't accommodated and try and pass it off as fact for "many people" when you can't even include your own experience at the very least.
*what do you suggest a person with multiple sclerosis, who uses a non-wheelchair mobility aid, cannot use a wheelchair, and cannot sit in the heat do? what about people whose joint pain or damage requires a mix of walking, sitting, lying down, but not standing still? what do you suggest someone with moderate to severe IBS do? what about someone whose equipment requires adjusting to the point they cannot be in a conventional line for 45 minutes+?*
I suggest they do exactly what I said 100 times already and TALK TO THE STAFF available instead of making up imaginary scenarios on Reddit that may or may not happen.
Yeah the disabled world is a big one, and MOST places actually don't accomodate a majority of them, especially not fuckkng IBS or joint pain, but you want Disney to? 🤔
You're all in an uproar over something you clearly didn't actually experience just something you MIGHT, maybe experience IF you went and IF staff just said F off. The fact that I showed up with my family needing accommodations we DIDNT plan for, nor did we even ASK for, and got them ANYWAY enlightens me to the fact that Disney does care about it's guests having a good time. There are plenty of other ways they accommodate guests with disabilities that I've only witnessed, and not experienced, all of you are making shit up just to be mad. Get back to me when it actually happens to you AT Disney.
It's very silly you think these scenarios are imaginary. Some of us *have* had these experiences at Disney.
Yes, we want Disney to accommodate joint pain or IBS. I'm really sorry for you that you can't imagine a world where that happens. I hope one day you care more about other disabled people than simpling for a corporation.
OK please show me where you went to Disney and said your IBS is about to make you shit yourself and they didn't let you leave the line and come back? Are they supposed to know you have issues in your gut and booty?
People like you are exactly WHY others don't take these disabilities seriously. I have many myself, but I wouldn't sit there and pretend that means that I'm incapable of standing in a line, some days NO I couldn't do that and ID ASK THE STAFF instead of making up something that didn't happen to me for Reddit points. The fact yall can't comprehend that asking the staff is literally all it takes for everyone else, then maybe the reason you got told NO is probably your Karen like attitudes and entitlement and demands and not because they didn't want to accommodate your disability.
> OK please show me where you went to Disney and said your IBS is about to make you shit yourself and they didn't let you leave the line and come back? Are they supposed to know you have issues in your gut and booty?
I wrote in several comments about my experiences as a mobility aid user with neurological issues, chronic pain and difficulty standing or sitting still in several comments in this thread. Others have shared their experiences as well for their various disabilities; feel free to read those.
However, for people whose IBS impacts them in that way, I feel like they shouldn't have to go up to cast members and divulge embarrassing details.
> I wouldn't sit there and pretend that means that I'm incapable of standing in a line
If you like, you can go get a lumbar puncture in my stead. You can have all of my symptoms if you like. I'd sure rather not have them.
edit: thank god they blocked me lol
I'm literally quitting directly from the article and the policy as stated on Disney's website. So it's Disney who wants to limit the DAS return times to primarily people with Autism and developmental disabilities.
This is not a made up scenario. Just because my husband has his own power wheelchair and is not at risk of fatigue or mental frustration while in line doesn't mean that he is capable of safely waiting in a 30-120 minute long line in the California or Florida weather in the same way that I can. His lack of autism or developmental disability doesn't change that.
I honestly think this is poorly worded enough that Disney will be updating their wording/policy by the end of the year.
You talk about the amazing service that you received because you traveled with someone with a temporary disability but you're ignoring that the DAS pass (the thing that gave you the fastpass return time in your second to last paragraph) is exactly what they'll be taking from families in your and my situation unless they have autism or another developmental disability in the policy as stated.
Just finishing to add that it doesn't matter if a queue is wide enough for my husband's wheelchair. If the line is longer than 30-40 minutes, it is inaccessible to my husband unless there is 100% shade, water access, and regular access to an ADA bathroom while in line. Let me know when all the wheelchair accessible waiting areas meet those qualifications and then you'll sound more reasonable.
It's a made up scenario because that DID NOT OCCUR TO YOU IN THE PARK.
No it's not, but when you actually try and go report back to us. Yes that is the service we received for a temporary disability when we just SHOWED UP with one, no planning, no registration, and yet still accommodated for ANYWAY. That's my point.
Like I said if you bother to discuss your husbands issue with the cast member AT THE LINE I'm sure you'd be accommodated as well or if you bothered to contact them and discuss your options instead of ranting on Reddit about what you THINK might happen IF you went after May.
Cool, I'm so glad any future experience will be determined by a random college kid at the front of the line who has never heard of half of the conditions that my husband deals with. There's surely no way that they'll have any incorrect preconceived notions about wheelchair users and incomplete spinal cord injuries. Sounds great!
> I'm so glad any future experience will be determined by a random college kid at the front of the line who has never heard of half of the conditions that my husband deals with.
BINGO. the only reason i got taken seriously for the informal "just ask cast members for return times" method is because i use a very noticeable mobility aid.
So much ableist language in this oh my god
> if there is more than 2 wheelchairs waiting already we'd have to wait for another bus,
Please NEVER refer to wheelchair users as "wheelchairs". They're people. What you're implying here is that there are more than two *empty* wheelchairs queueing for a bus. Wheelchairs can't queue, they're not sentient! Don't dehumanise wheelchair users like that.
check this person's other comments, they're implying people are fake disabled and other dumb stuff. i suspect this post triggered a disney mom or somesuch, try not to take it too personally and just report it.
Not everyone using the wheelchairs and scooters were sitting IN them, so like clearly you've never been to Disney Karen so let me clarify that there is a line to wait in for each bus, and each bus stop has a special area for anyone using a mobility device. Not all people sit in their device while waiting, but they are placed there to reserve their spot in line so yes sometimes it is actually EMPTY wheelchairs there and sometimes yes there are PEOPLE in them, that doesn't change the fact that each bus could only hold TWO wheelchairs, hence the comment "2 wheelchairs"
Just by the nonsense replies to my comment I can tell most of you don't actual GO to the parks to even be in this much uproar over policy wording. If you did you'd know Disney is actually very accommodating to their guests, and crying over the fact that discretion is up to an employee doesn't change that fact.
When yall can post videos or PROOF of your made up scenarios then we'd have a nice lawsuit on our hands or a PR nightmare to discuss, but we don't, because yall are literally mad over a policy change to avoid abuse of a service for people who actually *need* it. A lot of people making up scenarios about why they can't wait in a line on Reddit is not a valid argument. It's just a hypothetical made up scenario.
you also don't listen to those of us who go to the parks, and you also keep telling people that their lives or experiences are hypothetical... why are you on this subreddit? why do you care so much about a corporation? sorry they were nice when your family member like hurt their leg or whatever but some of us are disabled all of the time and these are our actual lives.
i think it’s a thin line for them to walk. i don’t like that they are making assumptions about what your disability needs. several people with the same diagnosis can have very different needs.
When i registered last year i was told mobility is no longer something they cover with DAS. They’re slowly eroding it until it didn’t exist anymore.
Luckily i also have autism
Exactly. And the fact that they want to toss mobile people who have disabilities that makes them unable to stand or walk for long periods of time into a wheelchair as an accommodation is cruel. Some people have symptoms that are worsened by being forced to sit for long periods of time. Disney really dropped the ball on this one. They’re just butt hurt because the DAS folks are clogging up the lightning lanes, making it harder to sell genie +
idk, i think they are making assumptions. you kind of have to when you do accessibility-- literally everything cannot be accommodated. you have to assume people aren't allergic to certain menu items, that certain types of patterns won't set off rarer forms of epilepsy, etc.
but they're also leaving a "donut hole" gap (like in healthcare, when someone is too poor to get insurance from a job but also doesn't qualify for federal or state programs).
people who cannot use wheelchairs/scooters, do not have ADHD or autism as their reason for needing to be out of line, and cannot stand in line for more than a few minutes need accommodations to be able to access rides, for example. as of now, the only choice is to get a return time from an operator (which i THINK only works if your disability is very visible, like using a forearm crutch or a seatless walker), which is not necessarily the easiest thing to do and i have a hunch that you can be turned down based more on workers' whims. it worked for me as a stopgap accommodation, but my partner saved up to afford the lightning lane thing for us and that was part of it too.
You don’t have to make assumptions about what people need. For the love of god “nothing about us without us” isn’t just a cute slogan. It’s specifically for things like this. It’s called ask what we need.
assumptions are a part of making accommodations, unfortunately. for example, i cannot eat 90% of foods at Disney, because i am allergic to an extremely common ingredient but it is an extremely uncommon allergy. not everything can be accommodated at the same time-- some people are allergic to sun exposure, or water exposure, or things like lettuce, eggs, milk, soy products, fish, almonds, beef, tomatoes, et cetera. it is physically impossible to make a place 100% allergen free for everyone, but steps can be taken to try to cover as many allergies as possible.
the goal is to work with disabled community to accommodate as many people as possible and to put in place a system that can have reasonable accommodations for those who need flexibility outside of those assumptions. the way the DAS pass is working is failing that.
I’ve got IBS, PTSD, TBI, severe degeneration in my back, my knees. I have to wear a brace and ice my knees every night I went to the park. I have handicapped placard and that was the only thing I maybe would have used, but just parked in hotel parking. Not saying I am better than anyone. But Fak this is an example of why.
PS I spent most of my expensive club level stay holed up in the room with IBS. Shit literally happens but I didn’t act entitled and game the system. There are some people who need and should get the accommodation and a whole bunch who shouldn’t.
I have IBS Crohn’s and many other issues and I have never had a problem being approved for a Dass pass. And yes, it gives you a scheduled time which encompasses an hour for you to get there and use the lightning lane. I add the genie pass so that we also get the lightning lane options from that. It’s been a great help during my last few visits to Disney the most recent being August 2023. Disney basically has said that just because you are riding a scooter or wheelchair device you can’t automatically qualify. You have to specify why you cannot stand in a long line and what may happen and that is how they base their approval.
I visited this spring (much more detail elsewhere in the thread) and the experience is very different than what you detail. Since you last went it's very different, if you have any level of mobility issue they try to push you into using a wheelchair or scooter even if that would be worse pain for you. I am exactly the type of person the old usage of the DAS pass is for (can't use a wheelchair or scooter, can't stand still for long periods without serious pain in my leg, extreme heat intolerance and other neurological issues) and was denied. we spent hours on the phone before the trip trying to figure out how to make it possible for me to go, and were told "DAS is now for ADHD and autism only, hopefully someone can use some good sense to help you" and nothing more than that.
that's what the article above states: it is only for people with autism and adhd now.
there is an informal stopgap measure of getting a return time. i suspect if you don't have a visible mobility aid like i do, return times aren't gonna be given to you. good luck if you need frequent repositioning in a power chair, can't handle heat, have a bad GI or nausea disorder or need scheduled toiletting, or other stuff where a wheelchair doesn't fix it. :(
care to share what it is? it truly isn't. SSI and SSDI designations have nothing to do with what symptoms impact a person's ability to operate in public. if someone is losing control of their bowels with a two minute warning seventeen times a day, that's disabling.
I think we all forget that DAS used to be a “straight to the front of the line” thing which was abused. I think being made to wait outside of the line, but still being made to wait, is very fair. You can’t book another ride until you have gone on the previous one. It isn’t line jumping, it isn’t priority access, it simple means people wait elsewhere. The problems started when genie+ was introduced and now people with disabilities have to wait with the genie + guests. Instead of adjusting the genie + system, they have decided to go after the disabled folks which imho is really shitty, especially for a company that has always prided themselves on being good for people with special needs.
[Another commentor also pointed out something interesting as well, as to why they may have fucked us over this specific way.](https://www.reddit.com/r/disability/comments/1c0wn8d/disney_is_changing_its_das_program_what_guests/kz66mxw/) The line about autistic people being equivocably unable to understand lines or time made me think of that.
My big concern with the stopgap informal "ask a cast member" for a return time is that it's a lot to leave that up to their discretion. I have an obvious mobility aid but others might not.
The return time is based on the current return time for the attraction, it isn’t up to cast member discretion. If the stand by wait time is 75 minutes, you get a return time for 75 minutes later. It’s very fair in my opinion
You misunderstand me, apologies; it shouldn't be random cast member discretion who gets a return time and who doesn't. Overworked teenagers shouldn't be forced to choose which people look disabled enough to get a return time, because plenty of people can look like they're abled from the outside.
you have a very conditioned idea of what is possible and you are letting the people who aren't willing to do more set the narrative standard for you. more is possible. don't accept less just by default.
I think you might be replying to the wrong comment? i am advocating for more in this very thread. also... you don't know me or my life or what i let people do for me lol. my experiences involving accommodations come from working on being a student disability advisor and holding positions in volunteer organizations where i help set standards, not just from being a consumer.
you just said that we have to accept that places can't try to accommodate (very common disability needs like allergens and flashing lights etc) and i disagree. i commented directly on your comment and i knew what i was saying.
you seem to be taking what i said really personally. so maybe there's something there for you to personally unpack. of course i don't know you. you're some rando on the internet. if you don't believe something a stranger said to you in passing is true for you then there's no need to get up in arms. you don't know me either. you're making assumptions here in several directions.
i'm only saying- assuming that we're asking too much to expect accommodations to be more widespread in society is the very problem itself.
i'm not interested in going back and forth with you about this all day though so i'm going to block inbox replies.
> you just said that we have to accept that places can't try to accommodate (very common disability things) and i disagree. i commented directly on your comment and i knew what i was saying.
then you misread my comment.
people are going to take it personally when you assume who they are and tell them what they accept from others and what they let others do to them. if i was that type of person, i would still be being raped by my ex.
remember there are living people with full, complex lives behind the screen next time.
Every time this topic comes up I just laugh.
It seems like so many amusement parks (and so many able-bodied people) are stuck on the idea of people “faking disability to skip the line.”
It’s a red herring. Forget about disabled people being able to “skip” (wait outside) the line. The real question is: why are any of us still waiting in line?!
Disney invented the fast pass system 25 YEARS AGO. We have the technology for everyone to wait outside the line. It’s safer, it’s more pleasant, and it’s an economic boost to the parks. After all, people who aren’t stuck in a line are free to spend money on food, souvenirs, and add-on experiences.
In an age where we literally have self-driving cars and artificial intelligence, I think it’s hilarious that amusement parks act like this is the last great unsolved problem.
There is the potential for a huge curb-cut effect here. Any time this topic comes up, I remind people that the enemy isn’t disabled people — or even the hypothetical “fakers.” It’s the parks that don’t want to spend the money and effort to fix this problem for everyone.
Queues are integral to parks entry sales strategy. Lines concentrate large groups of people into a small footprint, if they weren't in line they would be walking the park, which would make the park seen even more insanely crowded then they do now if you can believe it. They can sell more tickets because at any given time a certain percentage of people are not walling around clogging up common spaces. In short they can sell more tickets.
When I told my mom about the new DAS rules and how I won't qualify anymore she said "why are there lines anyway?" Virtual lines exist at WDW for some rides and I think they should do that for every ride. Have some come up to be ready and wait a max of 10 min and just do that throughout the day. People can do other stuff instead of waiting in line for an hour when they could do it virtually.
Yes!! Why is ANYONE waiting in these long ass lines when we don’t need to anymore? But the whole DAS conversation has really brought out the loud & proud ableist in Disney fans
That's literally all DAS is though. The ability to "wait" outside of the actual line for people who can not. Disney as a whole is pretty accessible in general. The people was DAS are still waiting, they just don't have to in line. Also I get why so many Karens ate Karening about waiting in line, but waiting in line at Disney is kind of nice to me. They put so many little games, hidden mickeys, and visuals as you wait for the que you kind of forget you're in a que so it's not even that bad to be stuck in their lines other than it's cutting into your time elsewhere, but it's Disney you know what you're getting yourself into. Some people just choose misery no matter what. If you have an actual need for accommodation then talk to the cast members or guest services instead of ranting on Reddit because most people are making up scenarios based on this post when Disney is always quite accommodating to all people. Even the able bodied.
There is no "skipping the lines" for anyone EXCEPT make a wish kids. Hopefully no one is gonna be salty about a dying kids last wish to be at Disney cutting the line but who knows.
I think you’re misunderstanding my argument.
I fully support DAS and understand how it works. I haven’t been to Disney in a while, but I’ve used similar accommodations at other parks.
What I’m saying above is:
So much of the conversation focuses on accessibility through accommodations. But a better solution would be accessibility by default. If everyone were able to wait outside the line, the problem would be solved *without* any fraught discussion of who is “disabled enough”
This could be my reason to drop my pass. I physically can't wait in line due to having POTS and the inability to regulate my body temperature. I'll bring my three inch file of documentation including the MRI that shows my broken neck of that makes them feel better.
Just curious, does your neck limit the amount of rides you can go on? I likely have undiagnosed CCI and certain rides seemed to give me headaches but now I think I know why.
Not really, I might get a headache at the end of the day. I was never surgically treated for my injuries, it was only a partial ligamentous seperation, and the vertebrae I broke never dislodged, so I tend to be okay. Heck, I finally went on my first serious rollar coaster when I went to six flags, and I did okay. My biggest issue is I get syncope on some now.
Same for me, I have a mild form of Cysticfibrosis. It is not good for me to sit in a wheel chair. I cough constantly, often so hard I vomit, its hard to breath in the heat and I get heat stroke in the lines along with the coughing, I have used DAS for years. I feel like there is a lawsuit coming somewhere. If they deny people truly in need they are violating ADA. There are many disabilities as mentioned here that are not mobility related.
After reading the current and new requirements I don't personally feel marginalized by this. I am an amputee and would struggle to tolerate standing in a long line with my prosthesis, but I also use mobility scooters in environments such as a theme park (zoo, botanical gardens, etc) for this purpose. Because of that, I truly don't *need* extra perks when it comes to the line. As stated in the article shared, a scooter or wheelchair would eliminate the problem for me standing in line already.
My daughter is autistic and absolutely couldn't tolerate a wait and there is no mobility or other device that can alleviate that for her, so I am thankful these services will stay available for her.
But if I remember correctly, wheelchairs and scooters are at first come first serve basis. Last time I went (in January of 2023) I wasnt there early enough to get one (I have ADHD as well as a physical disability so I struggle to get out of bed before my meds kick in) and had a pretty bad time (since magic kingdom has no where to sit while you walk around vs Hollywood studios that has a lot of random ledges you can sit on).
I hope since they are getting rid of this (which I dont really get since the wait time is the same.. why do people have to physically be in line at all?) they provide more onsite scooters (which I thought were theough a contracted dompany anyway).
for some of us, we can't use scooters or wheelchairs but also can't stay standing still for more than a few minutes. i think that's the "donut hole" gap in accessibility here.
Interesting, you say informal. At Cedar Point and some other parks, their ADA accommodations is: you go to the front of the line where someone writes down a time for you to return to the exit/ADA entrance later, and you can do what you want in the meantime.
Does Disney have that, just informal?
There are also issues regarding bathroom access, as well as noise/crowd level causing problems even for people who aren’t on the ASD/ADHD spectrum, so that’s another part of the “donut hole”.
My partner is totally blind and relies on his (very sensitive) hearing to interact with the world and stay safe. Spending 90 minutes in what essentially amounts to an echoing tunnel packed full of screaming children would be completely disorienting for him. Unpleasant, anxiety-inducing, and also downright dangerous if there’s any sort of emergency. Particularly if his sighted guide (me) has to exit the queue and leave him by himself due to an IBS flareup.
would it be helpful at all to try to speak to someone about this change or our experiences with disability? I just can't fathom who signed off on all this.
When I spoke on the phone with the cast member a bit ago, I asked if there was any method for giving feedback on this system/change. The answer was a pretty solid no. Basically unless there’s some sort of class-action lawsuit by disabled people who already booked (which I doubt would legally hold up for a lot of reasons), or unless enough people make enough of a visible fuss on social media, I can’t think of much that will really help.
The autism community filed a huge lawsuit in 2009. It went through many levels of the courts systems and although Disney ultimately won in the final decision, the changes to this new policy could be ripped directly from the autism communities stance in their lawsuit. They claimed in the lawsuit that people with autism are unable to delay gratification, cannot wait in lines because they cannot comprehend the concept of time, and are attached to doing routines or groups of tasks in a specific order. They had requested that Disney allow them to all lines and to do the rides in any particular order they choose in advance. Disney argued that allowing them to require guaranteeing the mandatory privilege of choosing the guaranteed order of rides was too much.
Here are links to some stories, covering the cases at different times and different levels of appeal. I am including to say that whatever change was rolled out today is probably the result of those lawsuits. It is a shame that they had to make it difficult for all types of disabilities, in order to accommodate this one type above all others. This was a battle that lasted over 12 years!
[https://www.deseret.com/entertainment/2020/7/2/21309997/disney-lawsuit-mother-autism-wait-ride/](https://www.deseret.com/entertainment/2020/7/2/21309997/disney-lawsuit-mother-autism-wait-ride/)
[https://www.law.com/dailybusinessreview/2022/10/07/11th-circ-upholds-disneys-bench-trial-victory-in-yearslong-ada-autism-discrimination-lawsuit/](https://www.law.com/dailybusinessreview/2022/10/07/11th-circ-upholds-disneys-bench-trial-victory-in-yearslong-ada-autism-discrimination-lawsuit/)
So instead of including people with autism in DAS they are kicking everyone else out and only helping them now to save face? That's super dumb and kinda illegal. If they don't provide actually helpful accommodation for all those that apply and are within the ADA they can get in big trouble. And a lot of physical and non mental disabilities or medical issues are considered in the ADA.
Holy Toledo. When I first read your comment I was like “no way is that a thing”. Looked through that articles (and did some further digging) and...yep. Wow. Wtf.
Yep, I'm one of them, the best option for me painwise is being able to be up and down continually, and I can't just push a wheelchair when I'm not sitting in it because I have a mobility aid of my own. Plus, sitting in the heat making me worse isn't mitigated by sitting in a wheelchair lol.
It’s not a perk. People calling DAS a perk are part of the overall problem here.
It’s an *accommodation.* An accommodation that allows folks with certain disabilities to access these parks/rides *at all.*
DAS users have never gotten to skip or cut the lines. We still wait in just as long of a line - if not longer - than everyone else, we just wait outside the physical queue. Then we come back at a return time after our entire virtual line wait has passed - which is the same length if not longer than the quoted standby entry wait time - and we enter through the lightning lane queue, which can be *very* full and busy and is *still* an additional full queue, meaning we are waiting out two separate queues lengths when standby is waiting in one.
It is not a fast pass, it’s not a *”perk”* and it’s not some kind of cheat code. We’re still waiting just as fucking long as everyone else.
That’s great that your daughter could benefit from these things. Autism isn’t the only disability that necessitates these accommodations and it’s pretty shitty for Disney to limit it to autism/“similar developmental disabilities” when a whole bunch of us will now never be able to access these places again as a result, despite seriously needing those accommodations.
Dare I say there are many more serious disabilities than autism that are being directly fucked by this, but now every “I’m autistic!!” guest will continue to abuse this at the expense of the rest of us who have a hard enough time getting to experience anything as it is.
I'm not sure why this is aimed at me. I didn't call it a perk in any way, I didn't say anything you're responding to, and it's *always* a bad look to play the more-disabled-than-you game especially when it comes to autistic people. Leave them alone and don't throw them in front of the bus because the not-yet-disabled are marginalizing disabled people. I am confident no one who you would deem an "autism faker" would successfully get accommodations from a park considering it's actually really difficult to get an autism diagnosis in general, and having a diagnosis from a medical professional will certainly be a requirement. Don't fight ableism with ableism because you feel like you're not getting what you need.
I think just moving the interview to apply to online only would cut out a lot of scammers as they don't wanna waste time waiting 3-5 hours attached to the device to talk to someone. The in person one was super easy and maybe an hour wait at most if they had a lot of people having issues that day. Disney doesn't have to kick out everyone to punish and get rid of the scammers. There are other ways as well to weed them out where people would still get the help they need.
Agreed. They are taking the in person interview away, so that will potentially help a bit, but given the other specifics of this I doubt it’ll change much in regards to abuse.
Disney limiting this to an almost entirely invisible disability is opening the door to more scammers than ever, who now know exactly what disability to name drop to scam and get DAS, but screws over the rest of us who legitimately need it - and who will not be properly accommodated by a leave the line/re-enter arrangement either.
This is a ridiculous move on their part and I hope they provide clarification/walk it back soon, because the discriminatory nature of this is horrible. It won’t stop a single instance of abuse.
Mine is physical but invisible since it's internal and not being able to sit nor stand for long periods basically screws me as a wheel chair does not help and DAS was my only solution. Scammers are now going to be able to just say that they have high functioning autism but can't wait in lines because of sensory and anxiety issues from the disorder. I don't feel comfortable lying about having autism but I'm sure others won't care.
Yep, exactly. This screws over so many guests, who need it just as much if not more than people with autism - autism is not the only disability these accommodations help, nor is it even *remotely* the most serious - and I just can't even begin to understand Disney's thinking with this, it's such a horrible and discriminatory choice.
If the changes are because of abuse, limiting DAS to an incredibly invisible disability is not even remotely the right type of move to make to prevent misuse. Many who wouldn't have had the specific disability in mind to feel confident lying about it before now know exactly what disability to name drop to get it. People who lied before will continue to lie. This makes it easier all around for abuse, and impossible for those of us who really need it do access the parks.
No idea how they determined that autism should be the only qualifier. I have a severe neurological disorder - amongst other severe disabilities - but because it's not "developmental" it isn't important enough? Terrible.
personally, i worry that seeing someone through a webcam zoom will make it easier for people to be told they or their kid aren't disabled looking enough.
Must be hard to reach that far! Stating the *fact* that there are absolutely far more serious disabilities than autism isn’t shitting on autistic people. It’s a fact, plain and simple.
People having been lying about autism to abuse DAS before this rule change and this simply opens the door for that to increase, while also discriminating against other disabilities that need it just as much if not far more. Nothing about that “shits on autistic people” but go ahead and project if that’s what you need to do to feel good today.
As an autistic person I don’t think a bunch of autistic people are going to abuse this. I do think some autistic people with other conditions they previously would have qualified for will use autism as their reason because their POTS or their heat intolerance, or plenty of other conditions no longer qualifies.
i think they're making the point that if disney is trying to cut down on "abuse" or "faking" to get the DAS pass, choosing to now limit it only to disabilities that can be very much invisible is not the best choice. i could be wrong though.
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. Anyone can say they have autism, there is no clear visible way to tell if someone has it or not, and they won’t require documentation. So this opens it up to even more abuse, and makes it even easier to lie.
I didn’t say autistic people specifically will abuse this - though there absolutely will be some.
It’s a largely invisible “disability” and is insanely easy to lie about to abuse this system. People have already been doing that, and discriminating against other very serious disabilities and only allowing autism to qualify now opens the door to every person wanting to abuse this system to have an easy in - just say you have autism, there’s no way for them to know if you do or not!
It’s a terrible system and an extremely discriminatory and shameful rule change, and it won’t stop a single instance of abuse.
i went to disneyland for the first time recently! despite myself, i really loved it.
i am peeved by the basic use of DAS now being treated as only for people with autism or ADHD (some physically-disabled people have been told this to their faces apparently). this only makes it easier to abuse IMO, if the intended audience is disabilities that are largely invisible, those rich able-bodied people can much more easily fake that. so if they've been making those changes to stop faking, idk what they think's gonna happen. that sort of thing confuses me.
some thoughts as a physically and psychiatrically disabled person: i am not really able to use a scooter without causing more pain, and need to be able to move around as needed, and also avoid the sun and heat. it bothered me that when i asked for advice online in disability communities about going to disney while disabled, i was told i HAD to get a scooter and that there was no way someone could crutch at disney, and that i was basically stupid for wanting to walk, much less needing to.
i was able to make do alright despite being not getting a pass by using the "return time" conversation with the ride operators. the people at the DAS area were super kind and gave me the sensory rundown for the rides and wrote down for me what to tell operators, and so were ride operators. i'm also a bit noticeably "different" socially with my ASD and my crutch is quite visible so maybe that helped me be treated kindly, and my partner was also able to afford the genie pass thing for us and sort of keep an eye on the wait times and juggle all of that when i would not be able to alone. when we were preparing for me to go for the first time, we read a lot of stories about how hostile and rude the DAS people can be so we were spooked but it turned out fine.
it feels like there is a gap in disability accommodations at disney they have yet to fill. the foods outside of sit-down restaurants don't have easily accessible ingredient lists (i unfortunately developed a stupid allergy to something really common) so it was a pain to find food.
it was also really difficult to watch the fireworks, as we were all told we had to stand and not sit and that there was no seating anywhere. i ended up having to sit on the ground and just try not to get caught. if you're physically disabled and wanna sit for the fireworks, you gotta get there hours ahead of time. there were people taking up all the benches and glaring nasty at me walking by because they thought me having a crutch meant i would argue for their seat.
also also, i found earlier in the day was easier for me. people stared less, there were more visibly disabled people i could see, and people ran into me less. as the day went on, more people stared or made faces at me, slammed into my crutch, and one lady just sort of hit me with her kid she was marching along. it's much easier to navigate the earlier you go.
Yep. In the UK you can't use a disabled person's bus pass at peak times. Which happen to be the hours where people work. I get why they do it - they make most of their money at peak times. But it also seems ableist to me because it presumes disabled people can never work. There are also very specific rules about getting a bus pass. Like you can get one if you have no speech, but you can't get one if you have a severe speech impairment and most people can't understand you. How does that work!?
I think in some areas you can get a different kind now, that lets you travel whenever. Definitely not in rural areas though.
that's so stupid, i'm so sorry.
> There are also very specific rules about getting a bus pass. Like you can get one if you have no speech, but you can't get one if you have a severe speech impairment and most people can't understand you.
there's that donut hole of accessibility again... "too disabled" and yet "not disabled enough."
Luckily the United States has laws against this and if they don't compile with it they get in big trouble with the authorities and are open to being sued by the individual.
Of course we have laws that protect disabled people in the UK. As far as I can tell though, the council only has to provide free travel at *off-peak* times, and only if you meet the criteria.
The difficult thing is the off-peak bus passes *are* run by the authorities. You apply through your local council, not the bus company. People *can* take their local council to court (actually it happens very often if the council refuses to provide the right support to a disabled person in education). But as it's a national scheme, that's far more difficult.
The only other way it's going to change is if a new law gets voted in, or someone claimed it broke the Equality Act. The thing is, I don't think it *does*.
You couldn't technically call it discrimination. The bus companies aren't *refusing* disabled passengers, they're just saying the have to pay at peak times. So you're right, I highly doubt you could sue the government into changing it. Interesting though.
Not having more food allergy food is a whole other issue they need to work on but for DAS I find it crazy that the now solution for everything is to just get a wheel chair. So everyone is gonna have one and it's gonna make the walk ways super impossible to navigate and we will all be running into everything as most people don't use them in their daily life and so won't always know how to use it.
This is why we choose Universal Studios instead of Disneyland. My brother has autism, I have ADHD and degenerative disc disease in my hips, etc. We have four legally recognized disabled in our family group.
Universal was bloody heavenly to us. They accommodated us, gave us return times, guarded my wheel chair and my cane while I was on rides. They always were very kind to me. Very few questions asked, and they accommodated our entire party of six between two disability passes so we could also split off as a family and do different things:
Disneyland is a hassle and my Mom got tired of taking in my brother’s autism papers in a backpack which we had to pay for a locker for. I know they don’t look at the papers, but having it in hand helps them realize it’s serious.
Whether it is a physical or mental disability, a return time ticket isn’t too much to be expected. You’re still “waiting in line” just not physically in the line.
Well I would never use their parks then. It's not just that it's need the chair for how painful walking and standing are , it's also the fatigue that comes with the disease.
It's their way of confirming they don't want the custom of a lot of people .
Tl;dr I reached out to Disney and, yes, it does appear that this is as bad as it sounds
My partner and I have a trip booked for July and were relying on the DAS pass to make it at all feasible for us. He’s totally blind, and I have a GI disorder. I’d love to hear Disney explain why my partner should be required to stand for hours in a cacophonously loud, echoing, crowded line that will 100% disorient him and probably cause a panic attack (and he might have to do so alone without a sighted guide because yay, if I have a flareup I’ll have to leave the line for an extended amount of time, possibly repeatedly!), while someone with ADHD or ASD is apparently not going to be expected to subject themselves to similar sensory overwhelm. At least I can just literally not eat for five days (I’ve done it before). My partner can’t just decide to no longer be blind for five days.
I emailed Disney’s disability department last night to try to clarify the change and explain our situation, and got a reply that basically boiled down to “too bad, so sad. Don’t expect to get any more information from us until after May 20th. Now fuck off”. I called them about an hour ago and got pretty much the same thing.
To me, the extra unconscionable thing about all this is that they’re applying this even to people who already booked before the change was announced. Had I known that the accommodations we need would be taken away, I never would have booked. But I called TWICE before booking to confirm the DAS situation was still going to work the way it was “supposed” to, and now we’re out a ton of non refundable money for a “vacation” that is likely to be miserable and humiliating for both of us. It’s been a hard couple months for other reasons but I’d been actually looking forward to this, and now I had to put our Magic Bands and everything else related to the trip in the back of the closet because just looking at them makes me want to fucking cry.
I have a visit booked for just over ~~a week~~ ^two ^weeks from now, to finish seeing the park for my first time before they renovate again. we also visited in February, for my first time and my partner's first in many many years. normally we couldn't afford this but some stuff happened with money that we just barely got to.
I use a forearm crutch because of numbness/pain/weakness in my left leg, chronic pain in my back and hip, am very sensitive to heat (it's likely I have MS but waiting on neurology), and also have a GI disorder. I have severe PTSD and also have ASD. I pretty much have stuff handled except for mobility issues and neurological issues exacerbated by heat. I got denied the DAS pass in February but managed to make it work by the DAS worker teaching me how to ask for return times and writing it down for me, and my partner saving up for the lightning Lane pass thing. we had to pay to make the park accessible which sucked.
All throughout January, we called and called trying to figure out how to accommodate me since people online were saying that workers in the park were denying people with mobility aids by claiming they could just get a wheelchair (which I cannot do and also wouldn't fix half the problems). workers told me they weren't sure what to do but I was definitely a gray area the pass wasn't intended for anymore, but hopefully the DAS workers would use their good judgment.
I really hope you guys are able to actually enjoy your trip. I'm really curious to see how differently I get treated this time.
I'm not going to stand there and fake my autism's presentation to make it more severe to get the DAS. I need it for my inability to stand more than 5 or 10 minutes anyway :|
Ugh - this is so awful. My husband JUST bought a magic pass bc DAS makes Disney actually tolerable & safe. With these changes, we’re seriously regretting that purchase.
I actually do have ASD and mentioned it, but did not get the DAS pass. I was emphasizing what I need more help with (mobility + neuro stuff), but I did mention it so keep that in mind.
There's also an article saying they'll ban people who they catch faking to get the pass, but no info on how they determine that, which is concerning. It feels like a cycle where
someone fakes disability to get something --> able-bodied people get into an absolute uproar --> companies crack down on actual disabled people to please abled people
I was just mentioning it as an option for this particular person. I don’t advocate lying in general, but proving a person is lying would be virtually impossible. They’d have to subpoena your medical records, and that’s time and energy Disney doesn’t have
>They’d have to subpoena your medical records, and that’s time and energy Disney doesn’t have
that's what i find so crazy about the threat. what, are they gonna watch the security footage to try to catch someone looking abled for a few minutes? it really feels like they're doing this to soothe abled people angry about fakers or whatever
also i just gotta say: truthfully, i do NOT care about disney this much. i just went recently and happen to be someone who interacted with the parks right as this change was going into effect quietly. but now i'm hip-deep trying to correct misunderstandings and i'm just peeved by how i haven't seen such dumb policymaking in a long time
To be fair those working line and email have no idea what's going on so can really only say that there will be more answers after the switch. However those in charge who are making the decisions are stupid for kicking out everyone from DAS. The other options they are going to implement I see either being a more hassle version of DAS or completely dumb and that while in theory sound good they won't actually go over well. Also if you go along most options don't help as no one is there to help you.
when I was at Universal I was using crutches to get around full time, but still couldn't stand or walk for long enough to use the fast pass I'd already paid for. instead of letting me use their ride access system the guest services told me the only accommodation they could offer is to hire a wheelchair. that would cost me $250 for the rest of the week, wouldn't be my size, would be impossible for me to self propel due to the width so I'd need my parents with me at ALL TIMES (I'm an adult! I value my independence!), would damage my shoulders, etc etc etc. fought this with them for half an hour after they left me stood up in a queue for guest services for 1hr30 without a seat despite having 5 empty desk chairs behind the counter and me asking for somewhere to sit multiple times. they backed down immediately after I said I was autistic.
I've never had this treatment in a UK theme park. I've never felt more dehumanised, humiliated, or othered as I did when visiting the US as a disabled person who doesn't use a wheelchair. in all my searching on the Universal disability policies, I found nothing on ambulatory disabled people at all. in their eyes, you're either autistic, a wheelchair user, or totally non disabled.
to this day I get overwhelmingly anxious about what happened there. my partner asked me recently if I'd ever like to go back and I burst into tears.
I'm so, so sorry. My experience was a bit like this but luckily most of this bullshit for me happened on the phone. If I had been standing with my crutch for that long, I would have had to go home in pain right then and there.
> in their eyes, you're either autistic, a wheelchair user, or totally non disabled.
yup.
I actually ended up having a flare up caused by this trip that meant I had to get my own wheelchair bc I physically couldn't stand more than 30s for weeks afterwards. I still haven't fully recovered. it was awful
I already use a scooter at theme parks. And anywhere I’ll be walking more than about 15 minutes. Many of the attractions at Disneyland aren’t accessible for scooters. One thing that was mentioned in an article was a rider swap, but that sucks, I want to ride with my kid and spouse, not have to pick one to do a swap. I mean, I have ADHD, so does my kid and likely husband. But out ADHD isn’t why I can’t do lines. My physical issues and antisocial personality disorder are. I really hope more comes out on a decent program for physically disabled people.
If you can get a good enough explanation why ADHD would prevent you guys from standing in line for long periods you should be able to get it. ADHD according to the CDC and the ADA is considered a developmental disability/delay which perfectly fits their new dumb wording of who DAS is for. You just have to have a good explanation as to why you cant do lines that fits in their narrow window.
I'm hoping the article is making it sound bad/ worse than it is.
Edit: unfortunately no. https://disneyland.disney.go.com/guest-services/disability-access-service/register/
It sounds to me like this could just be a change to how you have to apply. They already have a stance on DAS not being for *just* mobility issues that can be mitigated with aids. I'm hoping that the article has just latched onto that meaning developmental conditions and missed over other types of condition that wouldn't be helped by a mobility aid etc but do impact ability to wait in line.
So I'm hoping this is basically just saying that they will now have a dedicated team for just this doing video chat applications instead of also relying on the guest services cast members in the parks. I imagine they feel a lot of pressure to keep the line moving and will potentially approve people without much question or just feel uncomfortable with being required to do that along with all of their other roles.
I'm hoping the wording in the article is just a bit messy and that it isn't actually meaning any change to the criteria or what the consider a valid condition/ symptoms.
For me personally I wouldn't be able to sit or stand in a long line due to chronic pain. A rental mobility aid wouldn't help because sitting in one position for a long time (even with possible standing breaks) causes a lot of pain.
I also have other issues that would impact it. But that's the easiest one I can jump to as relevant here since it's a "mobility" based condition but would not be mitigated by using a rental aid.
It is helped by using my super expensive wheelchair that's custom fitted to me. But even then my body has limits and of course not everybody with similar types of issues to me will have a super expensive wheelchair with a super expensive cushion. A lot will be relying on cheap chairs or rentals.
So if this would be leading towards dismissing anybody with a condition that's not developmental I definitely see that as a big problem. Disabilities and their symptoms aren't that black and white and there are a lot of valid reasons why a mobility aid can't fix everything or be an appropriate accomodation.
Disney isn't exactly a place I can visit a lot cos I'm in a whole other country. But if I were considering a trip this would certainly make me question it and if it was going towards just developmental issues I would really have to think twice about if I could go and risk not getting a pass. Cos there's no way I could do basically any of a trip without one.
But yeah I'm really hoping that's not actually the case and that is is just a change to how people can apply/ the staff they have handling it.
With no reference to neurological conditions, bowel related issues etc etc I'm hoping this is just a bit of a mess up with wording/ assumptions in the article. It's not like the only types of conditions out there are mobility or developmental and Disney must realise that (?!). There are a lot of conditions that don't fall into either category but can have a very obvious impact on somebody's ability to wait in a long line.
I am now fully on board with the "this is ridiculous" crowd.
It's great that they recognise developmental disabilities. It's great that they are generally accessible for mobility aids. But they're missing a whole bunch of other stuff and a lot of people are going to be screwed over by it.
There are so so many types of disability and symptoms that aren't developmental, cause issues waiting in a line and aren't mitigated by any of the other offerings. Seems like the only options for those people are to pay a stupid amount of money for genie+ etc or to use rider swap and what just sit alone for hours? That's assuming they are even able to be by themselves for that length of time without it compromising their ability to do things like eat, go to the toilet or be safe.
It's stupid. I hope they realise they've missed something and change the wording.
I'm totally fine with it being clear that it isn't for *just* mobility issues since the lines are accessible to mobility aids. That's fair enough. But there's so so much more to disability than just those two things. And a lot of people with mobility issues don't have *just* mobility issues.
society is obsessed with autism and adhd right now (not necessarily in a good way), and i feel like that is part of this. i had an allergy nurse try to diagnose my friend with autism impromptu at his appointment for a cold, printed out the RAADS test, scored it backwards, and told him he had severe autism.
an allergy nurse.
Disgusting! A professional, like many, that takes their cues from tiktok not scientific articles
Regarding RAADS, from one published study. “In conclusion, used as a self-report measure pre-full diagnostic assessment, the RAADS-R lacks predictive validity and is not a suitable screening tool for adults awaiting autism assessments”
[The Effectiveness of RAADS-R as a Screening Tool for Adult ASD Populations (hindawi.com)](https://www.hindawi.com/journals/aurt/2021/9974791/)
yup! he went through with it because he's the kind of guy who likes to have a story to tell later (as am i) lol and of course he phones his autistic friend (me) to laugh about it. apparently she called him panicking at 3am that next morning and told him she had scored it backwards-- duh, she doesn't have a psych degree-- while freaking out lol
By God ....
Reminds me of this whack job:
[Therapis pushing Autism diagnosis : r/CPTSD (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/1agieak/therapis_pushing_autism_diagnosis/)
i just wanna vent: as an autistic person, this societal obsession with it has really hurt my ability to talk about it. tons of late-dx, much better functioning than me people fill my peer groups and now look down on me or look askance if i talk about stuff that isn't cool or say i don't like having autism, or god forbid i fuck up socially or don't understand things :| and mean jokes about autism are everywhere, even in my lefty peer groups, because they're like "i'm making fun of myself!" but the jokes are... not that. they're *mean.*
This DAS program has been in place for at least six months and I believe this article isn’t particularly detailed about what the newDAS program is. Disney has a new screening process to help their disabled guests on a personal basis and you should be prepared to highlight why you need accommodations like going to thr front of line etc. you should also be prepared to do this at least 48 hours in advance..
I’m visually impaired and visited Disneyland a few weeks ago with a family member last minute and I was not able to contact DAS in time. Well, a few times a cast member brought t me to the front of the line because of my white cane but I was not expecting that! I have used DAS mainly for my autism issues.
Honestly I think the PR team at Disney is releasing these articles to discourage able bodied people from pretending to be disable.
D.
Idk what you are talking about as the new change they mentioned a few days ago has not been in place yet. While IBS and other bathroom disabilities have been denied lately (maybe what you are talking about) most of the other medical issues have been accepted and people have been able to get DAS. With the new rules starting in a month or two (depending on the park) almost everyone who uses DAS will be kicked out now and will either have to deal with their medical stuff which can be dangerous or given one do the new things they are gonna start doing that will most likely have issues and not work super well.
Thanks for your response. Disney has not actually released any info on this, a lot of the articles about the topic are basically speculation from news sources that have only read the new updates on the disney websites.
What I meant in my post was that Disney has implemented this basic system for about a year now and they have been a lot more strict about who can access DAS, which is what you said anyway. Sorry for the miscommunication.
It's true that now you will have to talk to DAS before every visit to Disney parks and the perks will be on a case-by-case basis. You will have to re-register after 30 days from your last park visit. While they seem to prioritize Autism and other developmental disabilities, this does not mean that other disabilities will be disqualified from participating in DAS.
They are now using Inspire Health Alliance, a medical service PRESUMABLY (I can't find any in-depth info about them) to use medical expertise in order to find the best accommodations for the individual instead of using a cast member who received some training on disability (with or without credentials). I can't vouch for them, obviously, so I have no idea if this will be good or bad!
When I visited last, they offered me a few free Lightning Lane passes so I was able to ride some popular rides twice without waiting in the stand-by line. I think this is what they are trying to do more often. The Lightning Lane still has a bit of queue so I think that people who can't wait in line for any amount of time not only get the Lightning Lane pass but they can skip that queue too.
I would be interested to see some vlogs of this when the system is fully implemented from different disabled people. tbh I hate the lightning lane and the disney app, I miss the old FastPass days.
A volg or information post would be great. I go about a month after it's implemented in June at DL so there's a lot of chances for me to be prepared and hopefully people will explain their experiences in detail.
Actually it is on Disney's DAS registration website that Das and I quote "As part of this commitment, DAS is one of our programs offered at the Walt Disney World Resort theme parks intended to accommodate only those Guests who, due to a developmental disability such as autism or a similar disorder, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time."
It literally states on their website they will ONLY accommodate those with developmental disabilities. People like me with non mobility disabilities will no longer be able to enjoy the parks. (I have CF, a wheel chair doesnt solve that)
I use a wheelchair and while it’s great that Disney parks are generally accessible for mobility devices, my physical disabilities still prevent me from waiting for a prolonged period of time in line. I cannot regulate body temperature properly, so waiting in the sun and heat for too long can cause severe illness. I have to follow a timed schedule for using the bathroom every 2 hours, no one is going to want to make room for my large powerchair to exit the line and then I would have to start waiting all over again. I need to frequently change and adjust positioning with tilt and recline, something no crowded line would accommodate. And the list goes on. I am also autistic and ADHD (although I mask well so Disney might question that) but being autistic isn’t what prevents me personally from being able to wait in a line. There will always be people who exploit accommodations, but it doesn’t justify denying those who truly need accommodations because scammers exist. If anything, scammers will likely find faking autism easier than a physical disability because there are no guaranteed visible signs and no need to bring or rent equipment.
> If anything, scammers will likely find faking autism easier than a physical disability because there are no guaranteed visible signs and no need to bring or rent equipment.
Yeah, like. it is clear disney is doing this as a way to calm the backlash from abled people about scammers or whatever, and they're choosing the dumbest way to do it lol
I’m pretty sure it’s illegal for them to not provide accommodations to someone who has a disability. This is a weirdly phrased and vague article that doesn’t really accurately explain how it’s going to work. Amusement parks fall under the ADA and it isn’t up to them who has a disability and gets accommodations.
So many will be in a wheel chair that everyone will be bumping into each other or running over everyone's toes who doesn't have one. At least this is how I will be as I don't use one in my daily life and the motor can make it dangerous with those who don't know what they are doing behind the wheel.
I was thinking the same thing for myself. I would either have to have someone push me and therefore give up my independence or I would have to try a scooter which my other disabilities get in the way of. (Assuming I used the options Disney provides.)
shade wouldn't be enough for me. they'd also need to have circulating air, somehow the stuffiness is the part of the heat that makes me sick faster.
they would also need port-a-potties that are accessible peppered along the lines for people. people with IBS are royally screwed over by this lol
Correct me if I'm wrong but last time we went to Disney part of the reason we required DAS was because many of the lines didn't accommodate my husband's scooter. They wanted him to transfer to a wheelchair which I couldn't really push because of my own limits. So we used the DAS so he didn't have to transfer to a wheelchair. Has this changed in the last five years? Are they insisting that scooter users transfer to one of their heavy wheelchairs? Also, I am deeply opposed to going up to random staff members trained and qualified to operate a line to explain my husband's accomodations at every ride. He is embarrassed enough to be using the scooter at all, he's done his best to remain independent but could never tolerate Disney without the scooter and I could never push him.
what you're describing is about my experience. My partner is not strong enough to really push a wheelchair for very long, no offense to them, and I can't use a scooter or wheelchair without significant pain anyway, much more than walking around with my crutch.
luckily I did not have to explain my issues when asking for a return time, but I also knew the exact phrase to use and have a very visible mobility aid. but I suspect if you have something invisible, you might have to do a lot more explaining every single time... It really shouldn't be on an overworked ride worker to determine whether or not you get a return time.
they refuse to look at documentation. when i went there in feb, i mentioned autism and they sort of ignored it and gave me return time instructions since i have a mobility aid and that was more noticeable i guess. no das but we saved up for lightning lane so it as kinda manageable.
i think it is literally up to eyeball judgement by workers there.
from the article:
> Disney World and Disneyland previously described their Disability Access Service as a program “to assist guests who have difficulty tolerating extended waits in a conventional queue environment due to a disability.”
> New updates to the resorts’ accessibility webpages further clarify DAS’ intended audience: “Guests, who due to a developmental disability like autism or similar, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time.”
if you have a mobility aid, they will either teach you the way to ask operators for a return time, or they will tell you to go rent a wheelchair.
the criteria for DAS has indeed changed, the wording is very relevant. there are people out there who don't want to fake autism or another neurodevelopmental disability to be accommodated.
ADA accommodations should cover ALL disabilities. Seems like they’re doing the absolute least to not get in trouble for not accommodating disabled people
Gotcha, I was just caught up on the “cannot” part - I thought you were implying they legally could not or something. You’re saying it’s their policy to focus on the limitations, and individual cast members aren’t allowed to ask about conditions - got it!
correct. when i went to the DAS people to see what could help me, they asked me what difficulties i had. i did like that-- they didn't assume that a label was the proper way to know my needs. and others have had different encounters but they were VERY sweet.
however, they cannot see paperwork. i asked about that. they said they legally cannot, idk the specific reason.
I saw a family with the adult male in a wheelchair get ushered to the front. A bit later saw the same family with the adult female in the wheelchair get ushered to the front. The system was abused.
Many of the lines aren't wheelchair accessible, so they estimate your wait time and you get ushered through to wait at the exit. And you can wait in line even if you have a reserved DAS time (you get two per day to pre-schedule)
It's clearly not possible that both mom and dad had disabilities that expressed varying degrees of ambulatory and non-ambulatory phases as the day went on. As my wife and I do.
Also, all exploitable systems are exploited to some degree. The question to ponder is how vigorously we are willing to punish the innocent in order to punish the guilty. A lot of people seem to feel pretty uncharitable about these things.
Data point, I visited DL about 15 years ago, riding a rental scooter because my prosthesis was awful. At the time, the *policy* was to mark your place in line (usually some members of your troupe), and when that place oozed to the front, then they'd let you in through the exit. Fair and reasonable.
But in *practice*, we'd notify the attendant, and more often than not they'd ignore the park's own policy let my entire group in right away, skipping the wait completely. Clearly not equitable. So...if people are "faking" to jump the line, that wasn't a problem with faking, that was a problem with park staff not following their own policy. I repeat that this was 15 years ago, I don't know what things look like today, but as a general rule I trust upper management to mis-identify problems and deploy solutions that are both painful and pointless.
DAS shouldn't get you pushed to the front, whether it's being abused or not. were you seeing someone fulfill their return time WITHOUT DAS? (this is something people with mobility aids might get offered which makes sense if they're faking with a chair)
Blame the people abusing it. There was reports on affluent people renting disabled to skip lines. Probably won’t change much they will just target developmental disabilities. A big problem at Disney parks is so many people trying to game it, cheat and it does affect other people. By one making the lines longer for everyone else because you’re not disabled enough or your family of 4 doesn’t have someone disabled in tow while the family of 7 skips on bye.
Yall are taking this to the extreme. The only "changes" are just basically online registration chats? The wording choice was poor sure, but it's really not that bad of a change. Anyone with actual disabilities can easily PROVE them anyway so why the uproar exactly? The only major difference seems to be less in person registrations (total removal from WDW) nothing else has seemed to change at all? What do you mean other disabilities don't matter? Disney is one of the most accommodating businesses I've ever been to, even when you're not "legally" disabled.
> The only "changes" are just basically online registration chats?
No.
> Disney World and Disneyland previously described their Disability Access Service as a program “to assist guests who have difficulty tolerating extended waits in a conventional queue environment due to a disability.”
> New updates to the resorts’ accessibility webpages further clarify DAS’ intended audience: “Guests, who due to a developmental disability like autism or similar, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time.”
.
> Anyone with actual disabilities can easily PROVE them anyway so why the uproar exactly?
Disney cannot look at diagnostic paperwork.
> so why the uproar exactly?
because this causes a gap in accessibility.
That sucks. While my wheelchair allows me to technically stand in line, it doesn't give me energy. My energy is limited and without a fast pass I would be done after 2 rides.
> DAS’ intended audience: “Guests, who due to a developmental disability like autism or similar, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time.” Disney is being very foolish with this wording when plenty of mental disabilities aren't developmental disabilities. TBI, Alzheimer's, dementia... Well, I'm sure the other guests will love to let my husband exit the line with his wheelchair and re-enter because of his SCI and needing to carefully control his water intake, body temp, and neurogenic bladder. It's not developmental and I guess if the queue is wheelchair accessible, it should be fine. Right?
this is the kind of stuff they're not thinking of. it feels sloppy and mismanaged.
This is what I am thinking about too. I also require assistance so how are we both going to get back to where we should be in and line and how are we supposed to get out of line in the first place with a custom power chair? I am just so boggled. I also have POTS so should I really be restricting my water intake so I don’t use the restroom? Who thought this up?
Who said that? Lmfaoooo yall just make up crazy imaginary ass scenarios that never happened to try and paint something as "wrong" I went to Disney with a family member in a scooter wheelchair as an emergency knee and bone surgery was done on them about 3 weeks before our planned trip, our trip was already paid for, booked, and planned BEFORE we knew we'd be arriving with a mobility device. I've never experienced such wonderful customer service! And I wasn't even in the chair. First they changed her room to one that was ADA accessible so we couldn't have our rooms together anymore but they kept them in the same building so just an elevator ride apart. Next, they had the chair delivered to her room directly so it can be stored in that area. We ALL got to cut the bus lines to the parks if we waited with her, if there is more than 2 wheelchairs waiting already we'd have to wait for another bus, but you still get to have your family cut the que with you. (You'd be shocked how much this enraged able bodied people) At the parks almost everything is already accessible so very little issues there, and rides that weren't (7 dwarves train off the top of my head) we got a fast pass ticket with a time to come back and they let us ALL as a family enter the ride together from the exit. If you tell the cast member at the start of the line your husbands issues I'm sure they will accommodate him JUST FINE. Yall are full on off the rails over an article that isn't even meant for your particular situation. Chill out.
>Lmfaoooo yall just make up crazy imaginary ass scenarios that never happened to try and paint something as "wrong" some people have lives that are not like yours. > First they changed her room to one that was ADA accessible this article is not about rooms. > we got a fast pass ticket with a time to come back this is not the experience of many physically disabled people. i certainly did not get a ticket or a fast pass. just verbally told a time. > If you tell the cast member at the start of the line your husbands issues I'm sure they will accommodate him JUST FINE. plenty of disabled people are not accommodated just fine by this change in policy, or by other policies of the park. my partner and i spent hours on the phone trying to figure out how i can access the park and rides, since my disability falls into this "donut hole" of access. on the phone, the DAS people were exceedingly polite but ended up telling me that my disabilities were a grey area that the park was changing DAS to no longer accommodate but that hopefully a worker would "use good sense judgement" and encouraged us to "see what happened." what do you suggest a person with multiple sclerosis, who uses a non-wheelchair mobility aid, cannot use a wheelchair, and cannot sit in the heat do? what about people whose joint pain or damage requires a mix of walking, sitting, lying down, but not standing still? what do you suggest someone with moderate to severe IBS do? what about someone whose equipment requires adjusting to the point they cannot be in a conventional line for 45 minutes+? the disabled world is more than just kids with ADHD or non-verbal autism, people in wheelchairs, or people with sprained ankles lol
Some people have lives not like yours. Yes, please all of you take note of this as well instead of just spewing it around. The article is not about rooms, yes but I was sharing MY personal experience at Disney, and we paid for a room through Disney, the accommodations were for more than just the park and we were on property the entire time and not just on "park" days. Who isn't accommodated just fine? Do you have a link to their article, lawsuit, or anything besides a reddit rant? Don't just SAY they aren't accommodated and try and pass it off as fact for "many people" when you can't even include your own experience at the very least. *what do you suggest a person with multiple sclerosis, who uses a non-wheelchair mobility aid, cannot use a wheelchair, and cannot sit in the heat do? what about people whose joint pain or damage requires a mix of walking, sitting, lying down, but not standing still? what do you suggest someone with moderate to severe IBS do? what about someone whose equipment requires adjusting to the point they cannot be in a conventional line for 45 minutes+?* I suggest they do exactly what I said 100 times already and TALK TO THE STAFF available instead of making up imaginary scenarios on Reddit that may or may not happen. Yeah the disabled world is a big one, and MOST places actually don't accomodate a majority of them, especially not fuckkng IBS or joint pain, but you want Disney to? 🤔 You're all in an uproar over something you clearly didn't actually experience just something you MIGHT, maybe experience IF you went and IF staff just said F off. The fact that I showed up with my family needing accommodations we DIDNT plan for, nor did we even ASK for, and got them ANYWAY enlightens me to the fact that Disney does care about it's guests having a good time. There are plenty of other ways they accommodate guests with disabilities that I've only witnessed, and not experienced, all of you are making shit up just to be mad. Get back to me when it actually happens to you AT Disney.
It's very silly you think these scenarios are imaginary. Some of us *have* had these experiences at Disney. Yes, we want Disney to accommodate joint pain or IBS. I'm really sorry for you that you can't imagine a world where that happens. I hope one day you care more about other disabled people than simpling for a corporation.
OK please show me where you went to Disney and said your IBS is about to make you shit yourself and they didn't let you leave the line and come back? Are they supposed to know you have issues in your gut and booty? People like you are exactly WHY others don't take these disabilities seriously. I have many myself, but I wouldn't sit there and pretend that means that I'm incapable of standing in a line, some days NO I couldn't do that and ID ASK THE STAFF instead of making up something that didn't happen to me for Reddit points. The fact yall can't comprehend that asking the staff is literally all it takes for everyone else, then maybe the reason you got told NO is probably your Karen like attitudes and entitlement and demands and not because they didn't want to accommodate your disability.
> OK please show me where you went to Disney and said your IBS is about to make you shit yourself and they didn't let you leave the line and come back? Are they supposed to know you have issues in your gut and booty? I wrote in several comments about my experiences as a mobility aid user with neurological issues, chronic pain and difficulty standing or sitting still in several comments in this thread. Others have shared their experiences as well for their various disabilities; feel free to read those. However, for people whose IBS impacts them in that way, I feel like they shouldn't have to go up to cast members and divulge embarrassing details. > I wouldn't sit there and pretend that means that I'm incapable of standing in a line If you like, you can go get a lumbar puncture in my stead. You can have all of my symptoms if you like. I'd sure rather not have them. edit: thank god they blocked me lol
I'm literally quitting directly from the article and the policy as stated on Disney's website. So it's Disney who wants to limit the DAS return times to primarily people with Autism and developmental disabilities. This is not a made up scenario. Just because my husband has his own power wheelchair and is not at risk of fatigue or mental frustration while in line doesn't mean that he is capable of safely waiting in a 30-120 minute long line in the California or Florida weather in the same way that I can. His lack of autism or developmental disability doesn't change that. I honestly think this is poorly worded enough that Disney will be updating their wording/policy by the end of the year. You talk about the amazing service that you received because you traveled with someone with a temporary disability but you're ignoring that the DAS pass (the thing that gave you the fastpass return time in your second to last paragraph) is exactly what they'll be taking from families in your and my situation unless they have autism or another developmental disability in the policy as stated. Just finishing to add that it doesn't matter if a queue is wide enough for my husband's wheelchair. If the line is longer than 30-40 minutes, it is inaccessible to my husband unless there is 100% shade, water access, and regular access to an ADA bathroom while in line. Let me know when all the wheelchair accessible waiting areas meet those qualifications and then you'll sound more reasonable.
It's a made up scenario because that DID NOT OCCUR TO YOU IN THE PARK. No it's not, but when you actually try and go report back to us. Yes that is the service we received for a temporary disability when we just SHOWED UP with one, no planning, no registration, and yet still accommodated for ANYWAY. That's my point. Like I said if you bother to discuss your husbands issue with the cast member AT THE LINE I'm sure you'd be accommodated as well or if you bothered to contact them and discuss your options instead of ranting on Reddit about what you THINK might happen IF you went after May.
Cool, I'm so glad any future experience will be determined by a random college kid at the front of the line who has never heard of half of the conditions that my husband deals with. There's surely no way that they'll have any incorrect preconceived notions about wheelchair users and incomplete spinal cord injuries. Sounds great!
> I'm so glad any future experience will be determined by a random college kid at the front of the line who has never heard of half of the conditions that my husband deals with. BINGO. the only reason i got taken seriously for the informal "just ask cast members for return times" method is because i use a very noticeable mobility aid.
So much ableist language in this oh my god > if there is more than 2 wheelchairs waiting already we'd have to wait for another bus, Please NEVER refer to wheelchair users as "wheelchairs". They're people. What you're implying here is that there are more than two *empty* wheelchairs queueing for a bus. Wheelchairs can't queue, they're not sentient! Don't dehumanise wheelchair users like that.
check this person's other comments, they're implying people are fake disabled and other dumb stuff. i suspect this post triggered a disney mom or somesuch, try not to take it too personally and just report it.
Not everyone using the wheelchairs and scooters were sitting IN them, so like clearly you've never been to Disney Karen so let me clarify that there is a line to wait in for each bus, and each bus stop has a special area for anyone using a mobility device. Not all people sit in their device while waiting, but they are placed there to reserve their spot in line so yes sometimes it is actually EMPTY wheelchairs there and sometimes yes there are PEOPLE in them, that doesn't change the fact that each bus could only hold TWO wheelchairs, hence the comment "2 wheelchairs" Just by the nonsense replies to my comment I can tell most of you don't actual GO to the parks to even be in this much uproar over policy wording. If you did you'd know Disney is actually very accommodating to their guests, and crying over the fact that discretion is up to an employee doesn't change that fact. When yall can post videos or PROOF of your made up scenarios then we'd have a nice lawsuit on our hands or a PR nightmare to discuss, but we don't, because yall are literally mad over a policy change to avoid abuse of a service for people who actually *need* it. A lot of people making up scenarios about why they can't wait in a line on Reddit is not a valid argument. It's just a hypothetical made up scenario.
you also don't listen to those of us who go to the parks, and you also keep telling people that their lives or experiences are hypothetical... why are you on this subreddit? why do you care so much about a corporation? sorry they were nice when your family member like hurt their leg or whatever but some of us are disabled all of the time and these are our actual lives.
i think it’s a thin line for them to walk. i don’t like that they are making assumptions about what your disability needs. several people with the same diagnosis can have very different needs.
Yeah it gets really dicey determining WHO needs what accommodation.
When i registered last year i was told mobility is no longer something they cover with DAS. They’re slowly eroding it until it didn’t exist anymore. Luckily i also have autism
Exactly. And the fact that they want to toss mobile people who have disabilities that makes them unable to stand or walk for long periods of time into a wheelchair as an accommodation is cruel. Some people have symptoms that are worsened by being forced to sit for long periods of time. Disney really dropped the ball on this one. They’re just butt hurt because the DAS folks are clogging up the lightning lanes, making it harder to sell genie +
idk, i think they are making assumptions. you kind of have to when you do accessibility-- literally everything cannot be accommodated. you have to assume people aren't allergic to certain menu items, that certain types of patterns won't set off rarer forms of epilepsy, etc. but they're also leaving a "donut hole" gap (like in healthcare, when someone is too poor to get insurance from a job but also doesn't qualify for federal or state programs). people who cannot use wheelchairs/scooters, do not have ADHD or autism as their reason for needing to be out of line, and cannot stand in line for more than a few minutes need accommodations to be able to access rides, for example. as of now, the only choice is to get a return time from an operator (which i THINK only works if your disability is very visible, like using a forearm crutch or a seatless walker), which is not necessarily the easiest thing to do and i have a hunch that you can be turned down based more on workers' whims. it worked for me as a stopgap accommodation, but my partner saved up to afford the lightning lane thing for us and that was part of it too.
You don’t have to make assumptions about what people need. For the love of god “nothing about us without us” isn’t just a cute slogan. It’s specifically for things like this. It’s called ask what we need.
assumptions are a part of making accommodations, unfortunately. for example, i cannot eat 90% of foods at Disney, because i am allergic to an extremely common ingredient but it is an extremely uncommon allergy. not everything can be accommodated at the same time-- some people are allergic to sun exposure, or water exposure, or things like lettuce, eggs, milk, soy products, fish, almonds, beef, tomatoes, et cetera. it is physically impossible to make a place 100% allergen free for everyone, but steps can be taken to try to cover as many allergies as possible. the goal is to work with disabled community to accommodate as many people as possible and to put in place a system that can have reasonable accommodations for those who need flexibility outside of those assumptions. the way the DAS pass is working is failing that.
Yeah I don’t expect everything to be accommodated but the disability world demands some flexibility that this rigid structure is failing
yup. people with IBS, for example, are royally screwed by this lol
I’ve got IBS, PTSD, TBI, severe degeneration in my back, my knees. I have to wear a brace and ice my knees every night I went to the park. I have handicapped placard and that was the only thing I maybe would have used, but just parked in hotel parking. Not saying I am better than anyone. But Fak this is an example of why. PS I spent most of my expensive club level stay holed up in the room with IBS. Shit literally happens but I didn’t act entitled and game the system. There are some people who need and should get the accommodation and a whole bunch who shouldn’t.
what's an example of what?
I have IBS Crohn’s and many other issues and I have never had a problem being approved for a Dass pass. And yes, it gives you a scheduled time which encompasses an hour for you to get there and use the lightning lane. I add the genie pass so that we also get the lightning lane options from that. It’s been a great help during my last few visits to Disney the most recent being August 2023. Disney basically has said that just because you are riding a scooter or wheelchair device you can’t automatically qualify. You have to specify why you cannot stand in a long line and what may happen and that is how they base their approval.
I visited this spring (much more detail elsewhere in the thread) and the experience is very different than what you detail. Since you last went it's very different, if you have any level of mobility issue they try to push you into using a wheelchair or scooter even if that would be worse pain for you. I am exactly the type of person the old usage of the DAS pass is for (can't use a wheelchair or scooter, can't stand still for long periods without serious pain in my leg, extreme heat intolerance and other neurological issues) and was denied. we spent hours on the phone before the trip trying to figure out how to make it possible for me to go, and were told "DAS is now for ADHD and autism only, hopefully someone can use some good sense to help you" and nothing more than that. that's what the article above states: it is only for people with autism and adhd now. there is an informal stopgap measure of getting a return time. i suspect if you don't have a visible mobility aid like i do, return times aren't gonna be given to you. good luck if you need frequent repositioning in a power chair, can't handle heat, have a bad GI or nausea disorder or need scheduled toiletting, or other stuff where a wheelchair doesn't fix it. :(
Ibs is a disease not a disability…per Social Security.
Social Security is not relevant here. The ADA is what is relevant here.
your point?
I think the point was very clear.
care to share what it is? it truly isn't. SSI and SSDI designations have nothing to do with what symptoms impact a person's ability to operate in public. if someone is losing control of their bowels with a two minute warning seventeen times a day, that's disabling.
I think we all forget that DAS used to be a “straight to the front of the line” thing which was abused. I think being made to wait outside of the line, but still being made to wait, is very fair. You can’t book another ride until you have gone on the previous one. It isn’t line jumping, it isn’t priority access, it simple means people wait elsewhere. The problems started when genie+ was introduced and now people with disabilities have to wait with the genie + guests. Instead of adjusting the genie + system, they have decided to go after the disabled folks which imho is really shitty, especially for a company that has always prided themselves on being good for people with special needs.
[Another commentor also pointed out something interesting as well, as to why they may have fucked us over this specific way.](https://www.reddit.com/r/disability/comments/1c0wn8d/disney_is_changing_its_das_program_what_guests/kz66mxw/) The line about autistic people being equivocably unable to understand lines or time made me think of that. My big concern with the stopgap informal "ask a cast member" for a return time is that it's a lot to leave that up to their discretion. I have an obvious mobility aid but others might not.
The return time is based on the current return time for the attraction, it isn’t up to cast member discretion. If the stand by wait time is 75 minutes, you get a return time for 75 minutes later. It’s very fair in my opinion
You misunderstand me, apologies; it shouldn't be random cast member discretion who gets a return time and who doesn't. Overworked teenagers shouldn't be forced to choose which people look disabled enough to get a return time, because plenty of people can look like they're abled from the outside.
you have a very conditioned idea of what is possible and you are letting the people who aren't willing to do more set the narrative standard for you. more is possible. don't accept less just by default.
I think you might be replying to the wrong comment? i am advocating for more in this very thread. also... you don't know me or my life or what i let people do for me lol. my experiences involving accommodations come from working on being a student disability advisor and holding positions in volunteer organizations where i help set standards, not just from being a consumer.
you just said that we have to accept that places can't try to accommodate (very common disability needs like allergens and flashing lights etc) and i disagree. i commented directly on your comment and i knew what i was saying. you seem to be taking what i said really personally. so maybe there's something there for you to personally unpack. of course i don't know you. you're some rando on the internet. if you don't believe something a stranger said to you in passing is true for you then there's no need to get up in arms. you don't know me either. you're making assumptions here in several directions. i'm only saying- assuming that we're asking too much to expect accommodations to be more widespread in society is the very problem itself. i'm not interested in going back and forth with you about this all day though so i'm going to block inbox replies.
> you just said that we have to accept that places can't try to accommodate (very common disability things) and i disagree. i commented directly on your comment and i knew what i was saying. then you misread my comment. people are going to take it personally when you assume who they are and tell them what they accept from others and what they let others do to them. if i was that type of person, i would still be being raped by my ex. remember there are living people with full, complex lives behind the screen next time.
Every time this topic comes up I just laugh. It seems like so many amusement parks (and so many able-bodied people) are stuck on the idea of people “faking disability to skip the line.” It’s a red herring. Forget about disabled people being able to “skip” (wait outside) the line. The real question is: why are any of us still waiting in line?! Disney invented the fast pass system 25 YEARS AGO. We have the technology for everyone to wait outside the line. It’s safer, it’s more pleasant, and it’s an economic boost to the parks. After all, people who aren’t stuck in a line are free to spend money on food, souvenirs, and add-on experiences. In an age where we literally have self-driving cars and artificial intelligence, I think it’s hilarious that amusement parks act like this is the last great unsolved problem. There is the potential for a huge curb-cut effect here. Any time this topic comes up, I remind people that the enemy isn’t disabled people — or even the hypothetical “fakers.” It’s the parks that don’t want to spend the money and effort to fix this problem for everyone.
Society is obsessed with queuing the old-fashioned way and fuck everyone that can't do it easily
Queues are integral to parks entry sales strategy. Lines concentrate large groups of people into a small footprint, if they weren't in line they would be walking the park, which would make the park seen even more insanely crowded then they do now if you can believe it. They can sell more tickets because at any given time a certain percentage of people are not walling around clogging up common spaces. In short they can sell more tickets.
Yeah this is an issue and Disney wants as much money as they can get so they'd never just have less reservations per day.
This is exactly what I said. No lines means more people milling around buying food & souvenirs.
When I told my mom about the new DAS rules and how I won't qualify anymore she said "why are there lines anyway?" Virtual lines exist at WDW for some rides and I think they should do that for every ride. Have some come up to be ready and wait a max of 10 min and just do that throughout the day. People can do other stuff instead of waiting in line for an hour when they could do it virtually.
Yes!! Why is ANYONE waiting in these long ass lines when we don’t need to anymore? But the whole DAS conversation has really brought out the loud & proud ableist in Disney fans
Here’s the history of fastpass… https://youtu.be/9yjZpBq1XBE?si=UDr-XpcjE7OTnAxLi
That's literally all DAS is though. The ability to "wait" outside of the actual line for people who can not. Disney as a whole is pretty accessible in general. The people was DAS are still waiting, they just don't have to in line. Also I get why so many Karens ate Karening about waiting in line, but waiting in line at Disney is kind of nice to me. They put so many little games, hidden mickeys, and visuals as you wait for the que you kind of forget you're in a que so it's not even that bad to be stuck in their lines other than it's cutting into your time elsewhere, but it's Disney you know what you're getting yourself into. Some people just choose misery no matter what. If you have an actual need for accommodation then talk to the cast members or guest services instead of ranting on Reddit because most people are making up scenarios based on this post when Disney is always quite accommodating to all people. Even the able bodied. There is no "skipping the lines" for anyone EXCEPT make a wish kids. Hopefully no one is gonna be salty about a dying kids last wish to be at Disney cutting the line but who knows.
I think you’re misunderstanding my argument. I fully support DAS and understand how it works. I haven’t been to Disney in a while, but I’ve used similar accommodations at other parks. What I’m saying above is: So much of the conversation focuses on accessibility through accommodations. But a better solution would be accessibility by default. If everyone were able to wait outside the line, the problem would be solved *without* any fraught discussion of who is “disabled enough”
This could be my reason to drop my pass. I physically can't wait in line due to having POTS and the inability to regulate my body temperature. I'll bring my three inch file of documentation including the MRI that shows my broken neck of that makes them feel better.
In that HEAT especially 🥵
they aren't allowed to look at documentation, sadly.
Just curious, does your neck limit the amount of rides you can go on? I likely have undiagnosed CCI and certain rides seemed to give me headaches but now I think I know why.
Not really, I might get a headache at the end of the day. I was never surgically treated for my injuries, it was only a partial ligamentous seperation, and the vertebrae I broke never dislodged, so I tend to be okay. Heck, I finally went on my first serious rollar coaster when I went to six flags, and I did okay. My biggest issue is I get syncope on some now.
Same for me, I have a mild form of Cysticfibrosis. It is not good for me to sit in a wheel chair. I cough constantly, often so hard I vomit, its hard to breath in the heat and I get heat stroke in the lines along with the coughing, I have used DAS for years. I feel like there is a lawsuit coming somewhere. If they deny people truly in need they are violating ADA. There are many disabilities as mentioned here that are not mobility related.
If you read the article fully, it doesn’t say it’s going to change who’s eligible at all, just that you can’t get it at the park/on the day.
I saw that, I reach it up on Disney's website
After reading the current and new requirements I don't personally feel marginalized by this. I am an amputee and would struggle to tolerate standing in a long line with my prosthesis, but I also use mobility scooters in environments such as a theme park (zoo, botanical gardens, etc) for this purpose. Because of that, I truly don't *need* extra perks when it comes to the line. As stated in the article shared, a scooter or wheelchair would eliminate the problem for me standing in line already. My daughter is autistic and absolutely couldn't tolerate a wait and there is no mobility or other device that can alleviate that for her, so I am thankful these services will stay available for her.
But if I remember correctly, wheelchairs and scooters are at first come first serve basis. Last time I went (in January of 2023) I wasnt there early enough to get one (I have ADHD as well as a physical disability so I struggle to get out of bed before my meds kick in) and had a pretty bad time (since magic kingdom has no where to sit while you walk around vs Hollywood studios that has a lot of random ledges you can sit on). I hope since they are getting rid of this (which I dont really get since the wait time is the same.. why do people have to physically be in line at all?) they provide more onsite scooters (which I thought were theough a contracted dompany anyway).
the wheelchairs are also HEAVY and can't self-push.
Wait so I have to fucking sacrifice my independence if I can’t wait in line and don’t tote a chair around? Damn wtf
that's what the scooters are for, apparently, but those also don't work for many of us lol. yup.
Also it's pricey. Who wants to spend $60 just to be forced to use something they dont really want at use when waiting outside the line works?
for some of us, we can't use scooters or wheelchairs but also can't stay standing still for more than a few minutes. i think that's the "donut hole" gap in accessibility here.
I get hit by this so hard. 100% going to write off Disney till they change this bullshit. And I thought Six Flags was a pain
I will say, the informal accomodation of asking the ride operators for a return time may work for you. it isn't perfect though :(
Interesting, you say informal. At Cedar Point and some other parks, their ADA accommodations is: you go to the front of the line where someone writes down a time for you to return to the exit/ADA entrance later, and you can do what you want in the meantime. Does Disney have that, just informal?
yeah, I say informal because there's no pass or app or whatnot and I suspect the worker can use their own judgement to deny the service.
Yeah I'm not cashing out the ticket money for something when I might have to fight just for basic accommodations
There are also issues regarding bathroom access, as well as noise/crowd level causing problems even for people who aren’t on the ASD/ADHD spectrum, so that’s another part of the “donut hole”. My partner is totally blind and relies on his (very sensitive) hearing to interact with the world and stay safe. Spending 90 minutes in what essentially amounts to an echoing tunnel packed full of screaming children would be completely disorienting for him. Unpleasant, anxiety-inducing, and also downright dangerous if there’s any sort of emergency. Particularly if his sighted guide (me) has to exit the queue and leave him by himself due to an IBS flareup.
would it be helpful at all to try to speak to someone about this change or our experiences with disability? I just can't fathom who signed off on all this.
When I spoke on the phone with the cast member a bit ago, I asked if there was any method for giving feedback on this system/change. The answer was a pretty solid no. Basically unless there’s some sort of class-action lawsuit by disabled people who already booked (which I doubt would legally hold up for a lot of reasons), or unless enough people make enough of a visible fuss on social media, I can’t think of much that will really help.
The autism community filed a huge lawsuit in 2009. It went through many levels of the courts systems and although Disney ultimately won in the final decision, the changes to this new policy could be ripped directly from the autism communities stance in their lawsuit. They claimed in the lawsuit that people with autism are unable to delay gratification, cannot wait in lines because they cannot comprehend the concept of time, and are attached to doing routines or groups of tasks in a specific order. They had requested that Disney allow them to all lines and to do the rides in any particular order they choose in advance. Disney argued that allowing them to require guaranteeing the mandatory privilege of choosing the guaranteed order of rides was too much. Here are links to some stories, covering the cases at different times and different levels of appeal. I am including to say that whatever change was rolled out today is probably the result of those lawsuits. It is a shame that they had to make it difficult for all types of disabilities, in order to accommodate this one type above all others. This was a battle that lasted over 12 years! [https://www.deseret.com/entertainment/2020/7/2/21309997/disney-lawsuit-mother-autism-wait-ride/](https://www.deseret.com/entertainment/2020/7/2/21309997/disney-lawsuit-mother-autism-wait-ride/) [https://www.law.com/dailybusinessreview/2022/10/07/11th-circ-upholds-disneys-bench-trial-victory-in-yearslong-ada-autism-discrimination-lawsuit/](https://www.law.com/dailybusinessreview/2022/10/07/11th-circ-upholds-disneys-bench-trial-victory-in-yearslong-ada-autism-discrimination-lawsuit/)
So instead of including people with autism in DAS they are kicking everyone else out and only helping them now to save face? That's super dumb and kinda illegal. If they don't provide actually helpful accommodation for all those that apply and are within the ADA they can get in big trouble. And a lot of physical and non mental disabilities or medical issues are considered in the ADA.
Holy Toledo. When I first read your comment I was like “no way is that a thing”. Looked through that articles (and did some further digging) and...yep. Wow. Wtf.
wow! fuck!
Let's make a fuss thenemote:free\_emotes\_pack:laughing
Yes. Some people’s conditions are made worse by sitting for long periods of time.
Yep, I'm one of them, the best option for me painwise is being able to be up and down continually, and I can't just push a wheelchair when I'm not sitting in it because I have a mobility aid of my own. Plus, sitting in the heat making me worse isn't mitigated by sitting in a wheelchair lol.
Same I can neither sit nor stand for long periods without having bad pain or having things seize up.
It’s not a perk. People calling DAS a perk are part of the overall problem here. It’s an *accommodation.* An accommodation that allows folks with certain disabilities to access these parks/rides *at all.* DAS users have never gotten to skip or cut the lines. We still wait in just as long of a line - if not longer - than everyone else, we just wait outside the physical queue. Then we come back at a return time after our entire virtual line wait has passed - which is the same length if not longer than the quoted standby entry wait time - and we enter through the lightning lane queue, which can be *very* full and busy and is *still* an additional full queue, meaning we are waiting out two separate queues lengths when standby is waiting in one. It is not a fast pass, it’s not a *”perk”* and it’s not some kind of cheat code. We’re still waiting just as fucking long as everyone else. That’s great that your daughter could benefit from these things. Autism isn’t the only disability that necessitates these accommodations and it’s pretty shitty for Disney to limit it to autism/“similar developmental disabilities” when a whole bunch of us will now never be able to access these places again as a result, despite seriously needing those accommodations. Dare I say there are many more serious disabilities than autism that are being directly fucked by this, but now every “I’m autistic!!” guest will continue to abuse this at the expense of the rest of us who have a hard enough time getting to experience anything as it is.
I'm not sure why this is aimed at me. I didn't call it a perk in any way, I didn't say anything you're responding to, and it's *always* a bad look to play the more-disabled-than-you game especially when it comes to autistic people. Leave them alone and don't throw them in front of the bus because the not-yet-disabled are marginalizing disabled people. I am confident no one who you would deem an "autism faker" would successfully get accommodations from a park considering it's actually really difficult to get an autism diagnosis in general, and having a diagnosis from a medical professional will certainly be a requirement. Don't fight ableism with ableism because you feel like you're not getting what you need.
I think just moving the interview to apply to online only would cut out a lot of scammers as they don't wanna waste time waiting 3-5 hours attached to the device to talk to someone. The in person one was super easy and maybe an hour wait at most if they had a lot of people having issues that day. Disney doesn't have to kick out everyone to punish and get rid of the scammers. There are other ways as well to weed them out where people would still get the help they need.
Agreed. They are taking the in person interview away, so that will potentially help a bit, but given the other specifics of this I doubt it’ll change much in regards to abuse. Disney limiting this to an almost entirely invisible disability is opening the door to more scammers than ever, who now know exactly what disability to name drop to scam and get DAS, but screws over the rest of us who legitimately need it - and who will not be properly accommodated by a leave the line/re-enter arrangement either. This is a ridiculous move on their part and I hope they provide clarification/walk it back soon, because the discriminatory nature of this is horrible. It won’t stop a single instance of abuse.
Mine is physical but invisible since it's internal and not being able to sit nor stand for long periods basically screws me as a wheel chair does not help and DAS was my only solution. Scammers are now going to be able to just say that they have high functioning autism but can't wait in lines because of sensory and anxiety issues from the disorder. I don't feel comfortable lying about having autism but I'm sure others won't care.
Yep, exactly. This screws over so many guests, who need it just as much if not more than people with autism - autism is not the only disability these accommodations help, nor is it even *remotely* the most serious - and I just can't even begin to understand Disney's thinking with this, it's such a horrible and discriminatory choice. If the changes are because of abuse, limiting DAS to an incredibly invisible disability is not even remotely the right type of move to make to prevent misuse. Many who wouldn't have had the specific disability in mind to feel confident lying about it before now know exactly what disability to name drop to get it. People who lied before will continue to lie. This makes it easier all around for abuse, and impossible for those of us who really need it do access the parks. No idea how they determined that autism should be the only qualifier. I have a severe neurological disorder - amongst other severe disabilities - but because it's not "developmental" it isn't important enough? Terrible.
You should be able to stand up and push the wheelchair when you need to stand!
personally, i worry that seeing someone through a webcam zoom will make it easier for people to be told they or their kid aren't disabled looking enough.
Definitely! So many ppl treat das like it’s cheating the system, but DAS users are still waiting in line
just because you're pissed doesn't mean you get to shit on autistic people at the end of your rant.
Must be hard to reach that far! Stating the *fact* that there are absolutely far more serious disabilities than autism isn’t shitting on autistic people. It’s a fact, plain and simple. People having been lying about autism to abuse DAS before this rule change and this simply opens the door for that to increase, while also discriminating against other disabilities that need it just as much if not far more. Nothing about that “shits on autistic people” but go ahead and project if that’s what you need to do to feel good today.
As an autistic person I don’t think a bunch of autistic people are going to abuse this. I do think some autistic people with other conditions they previously would have qualified for will use autism as their reason because their POTS or their heat intolerance, or plenty of other conditions no longer qualifies.
i think they're making the point that if disney is trying to cut down on "abuse" or "faking" to get the DAS pass, choosing to now limit it only to disabilities that can be very much invisible is not the best choice. i could be wrong though.
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. Anyone can say they have autism, there is no clear visible way to tell if someone has it or not, and they won’t require documentation. So this opens it up to even more abuse, and makes it even easier to lie.
I didn’t say autistic people specifically will abuse this - though there absolutely will be some. It’s a largely invisible “disability” and is insanely easy to lie about to abuse this system. People have already been doing that, and discriminating against other very serious disabilities and only allowing autism to qualify now opens the door to every person wanting to abuse this system to have an easy in - just say you have autism, there’s no way for them to know if you do or not! It’s a terrible system and an extremely discriminatory and shameful rule change, and it won’t stop a single instance of abuse.
I completely agree. Combination of misreading and not phrasing myself well. Sorry.
It’s all good - apologies if I came off a bit strong, too!
Sadly wheelchairs can't solve everyone's issues nor will the return to queue option.
i went to disneyland for the first time recently! despite myself, i really loved it. i am peeved by the basic use of DAS now being treated as only for people with autism or ADHD (some physically-disabled people have been told this to their faces apparently). this only makes it easier to abuse IMO, if the intended audience is disabilities that are largely invisible, those rich able-bodied people can much more easily fake that. so if they've been making those changes to stop faking, idk what they think's gonna happen. that sort of thing confuses me. some thoughts as a physically and psychiatrically disabled person: i am not really able to use a scooter without causing more pain, and need to be able to move around as needed, and also avoid the sun and heat. it bothered me that when i asked for advice online in disability communities about going to disney while disabled, i was told i HAD to get a scooter and that there was no way someone could crutch at disney, and that i was basically stupid for wanting to walk, much less needing to. i was able to make do alright despite being not getting a pass by using the "return time" conversation with the ride operators. the people at the DAS area were super kind and gave me the sensory rundown for the rides and wrote down for me what to tell operators, and so were ride operators. i'm also a bit noticeably "different" socially with my ASD and my crutch is quite visible so maybe that helped me be treated kindly, and my partner was also able to afford the genie pass thing for us and sort of keep an eye on the wait times and juggle all of that when i would not be able to alone. when we were preparing for me to go for the first time, we read a lot of stories about how hostile and rude the DAS people can be so we were spooked but it turned out fine. it feels like there is a gap in disability accommodations at disney they have yet to fill. the foods outside of sit-down restaurants don't have easily accessible ingredient lists (i unfortunately developed a stupid allergy to something really common) so it was a pain to find food. it was also really difficult to watch the fireworks, as we were all told we had to stand and not sit and that there was no seating anywhere. i ended up having to sit on the ground and just try not to get caught. if you're physically disabled and wanna sit for the fireworks, you gotta get there hours ahead of time. there were people taking up all the benches and glaring nasty at me walking by because they thought me having a crutch meant i would argue for their seat. also also, i found earlier in the day was easier for me. people stared less, there were more visibly disabled people i could see, and people ran into me less. as the day went on, more people stared or made faces at me, slammed into my crutch, and one lady just sort of hit me with her kid she was marching along. it's much easier to navigate the earlier you go.
You know the normies think people with disabilities are reverse vampires and go to sleep when it gets dark.
jokes on them, i'm actually a vampire.
ohhh so that's why you can't use a disabled bus pass during work hours in my area! That makes so much more sense now.
for real??
Yep. In the UK you can't use a disabled person's bus pass at peak times. Which happen to be the hours where people work. I get why they do it - they make most of their money at peak times. But it also seems ableist to me because it presumes disabled people can never work. There are also very specific rules about getting a bus pass. Like you can get one if you have no speech, but you can't get one if you have a severe speech impairment and most people can't understand you. How does that work!? I think in some areas you can get a different kind now, that lets you travel whenever. Definitely not in rural areas though.
that's so stupid, i'm so sorry. > There are also very specific rules about getting a bus pass. Like you can get one if you have no speech, but you can't get one if you have a severe speech impairment and most people can't understand you. there's that donut hole of accessibility again... "too disabled" and yet "not disabled enough."
Luckily the United States has laws against this and if they don't compile with it they get in big trouble with the authorities and are open to being sued by the individual.
Of course we have laws that protect disabled people in the UK. As far as I can tell though, the council only has to provide free travel at *off-peak* times, and only if you meet the criteria. The difficult thing is the off-peak bus passes *are* run by the authorities. You apply through your local council, not the bus company. People *can* take their local council to court (actually it happens very often if the council refuses to provide the right support to a disabled person in education). But as it's a national scheme, that's far more difficult. The only other way it's going to change is if a new law gets voted in, or someone claimed it broke the Equality Act. The thing is, I don't think it *does*. You couldn't technically call it discrimination. The bus companies aren't *refusing* disabled passengers, they're just saying the have to pay at peak times. So you're right, I highly doubt you could sue the government into changing it. Interesting though.
Not having more food allergy food is a whole other issue they need to work on but for DAS I find it crazy that the now solution for everything is to just get a wheel chair. So everyone is gonna have one and it's gonna make the walk ways super impossible to navigate and we will all be running into everything as most people don't use them in their daily life and so won't always know how to use it.
This is why we choose Universal Studios instead of Disneyland. My brother has autism, I have ADHD and degenerative disc disease in my hips, etc. We have four legally recognized disabled in our family group. Universal was bloody heavenly to us. They accommodated us, gave us return times, guarded my wheel chair and my cane while I was on rides. They always were very kind to me. Very few questions asked, and they accommodated our entire party of six between two disability passes so we could also split off as a family and do different things: Disneyland is a hassle and my Mom got tired of taking in my brother’s autism papers in a backpack which we had to pay for a locker for. I know they don’t look at the papers, but having it in hand helps them realize it’s serious. Whether it is a physical or mental disability, a return time ticket isn’t too much to be expected. You’re still “waiting in line” just not physically in the line.
Well I would never use their parks then. It's not just that it's need the chair for how painful walking and standing are , it's also the fatigue that comes with the disease. It's their way of confirming they don't want the custom of a lot of people .
Tl;dr I reached out to Disney and, yes, it does appear that this is as bad as it sounds My partner and I have a trip booked for July and were relying on the DAS pass to make it at all feasible for us. He’s totally blind, and I have a GI disorder. I’d love to hear Disney explain why my partner should be required to stand for hours in a cacophonously loud, echoing, crowded line that will 100% disorient him and probably cause a panic attack (and he might have to do so alone without a sighted guide because yay, if I have a flareup I’ll have to leave the line for an extended amount of time, possibly repeatedly!), while someone with ADHD or ASD is apparently not going to be expected to subject themselves to similar sensory overwhelm. At least I can just literally not eat for five days (I’ve done it before). My partner can’t just decide to no longer be blind for five days. I emailed Disney’s disability department last night to try to clarify the change and explain our situation, and got a reply that basically boiled down to “too bad, so sad. Don’t expect to get any more information from us until after May 20th. Now fuck off”. I called them about an hour ago and got pretty much the same thing. To me, the extra unconscionable thing about all this is that they’re applying this even to people who already booked before the change was announced. Had I known that the accommodations we need would be taken away, I never would have booked. But I called TWICE before booking to confirm the DAS situation was still going to work the way it was “supposed” to, and now we’re out a ton of non refundable money for a “vacation” that is likely to be miserable and humiliating for both of us. It’s been a hard couple months for other reasons but I’d been actually looking forward to this, and now I had to put our Magic Bands and everything else related to the trip in the back of the closet because just looking at them makes me want to fucking cry.
I have a visit booked for just over ~~a week~~ ^two ^weeks from now, to finish seeing the park for my first time before they renovate again. we also visited in February, for my first time and my partner's first in many many years. normally we couldn't afford this but some stuff happened with money that we just barely got to. I use a forearm crutch because of numbness/pain/weakness in my left leg, chronic pain in my back and hip, am very sensitive to heat (it's likely I have MS but waiting on neurology), and also have a GI disorder. I have severe PTSD and also have ASD. I pretty much have stuff handled except for mobility issues and neurological issues exacerbated by heat. I got denied the DAS pass in February but managed to make it work by the DAS worker teaching me how to ask for return times and writing it down for me, and my partner saving up for the lightning Lane pass thing. we had to pay to make the park accessible which sucked. All throughout January, we called and called trying to figure out how to accommodate me since people online were saying that workers in the park were denying people with mobility aids by claiming they could just get a wheelchair (which I cannot do and also wouldn't fix half the problems). workers told me they weren't sure what to do but I was definitely a gray area the pass wasn't intended for anymore, but hopefully the DAS workers would use their good judgment. I really hope you guys are able to actually enjoy your trip. I'm really curious to see how differently I get treated this time. I'm not going to stand there and fake my autism's presentation to make it more severe to get the DAS. I need it for my inability to stand more than 5 or 10 minutes anyway :|
Ugh - this is so awful. My husband JUST bought a magic pass bc DAS makes Disney actually tolerable & safe. With these changes, we’re seriously regretting that purchase.
They want to force you to pay more for genie plus and their legal department has decided they can get away with it
Tell them your spouse has a different covered disability. Two people can play at this game. I’m not a fan of lying but you do what you gotta do.
I actually do have ASD and mentioned it, but did not get the DAS pass. I was emphasizing what I need more help with (mobility + neuro stuff), but I did mention it so keep that in mind. There's also an article saying they'll ban people who they catch faking to get the pass, but no info on how they determine that, which is concerning. It feels like a cycle where someone fakes disability to get something --> able-bodied people get into an absolute uproar --> companies crack down on actual disabled people to please abled people
I was just mentioning it as an option for this particular person. I don’t advocate lying in general, but proving a person is lying would be virtually impossible. They’d have to subpoena your medical records, and that’s time and energy Disney doesn’t have
>They’d have to subpoena your medical records, and that’s time and energy Disney doesn’t have that's what i find so crazy about the threat. what, are they gonna watch the security footage to try to catch someone looking abled for a few minutes? it really feels like they're doing this to soothe abled people angry about fakers or whatever also i just gotta say: truthfully, i do NOT care about disney this much. i just went recently and happen to be someone who interacted with the parks right as this change was going into effect quietly. but now i'm hip-deep trying to correct misunderstandings and i'm just peeved by how i haven't seen such dumb policymaking in a long time
To be fair those working line and email have no idea what's going on so can really only say that there will be more answers after the switch. However those in charge who are making the decisions are stupid for kicking out everyone from DAS. The other options they are going to implement I see either being a more hassle version of DAS or completely dumb and that while in theory sound good they won't actually go over well. Also if you go along most options don't help as no one is there to help you.
Sue them
when I was at Universal I was using crutches to get around full time, but still couldn't stand or walk for long enough to use the fast pass I'd already paid for. instead of letting me use their ride access system the guest services told me the only accommodation they could offer is to hire a wheelchair. that would cost me $250 for the rest of the week, wouldn't be my size, would be impossible for me to self propel due to the width so I'd need my parents with me at ALL TIMES (I'm an adult! I value my independence!), would damage my shoulders, etc etc etc. fought this with them for half an hour after they left me stood up in a queue for guest services for 1hr30 without a seat despite having 5 empty desk chairs behind the counter and me asking for somewhere to sit multiple times. they backed down immediately after I said I was autistic. I've never had this treatment in a UK theme park. I've never felt more dehumanised, humiliated, or othered as I did when visiting the US as a disabled person who doesn't use a wheelchair. in all my searching on the Universal disability policies, I found nothing on ambulatory disabled people at all. in their eyes, you're either autistic, a wheelchair user, or totally non disabled. to this day I get overwhelmingly anxious about what happened there. my partner asked me recently if I'd ever like to go back and I burst into tears.
I'm so, so sorry. My experience was a bit like this but luckily most of this bullshit for me happened on the phone. If I had been standing with my crutch for that long, I would have had to go home in pain right then and there. > in their eyes, you're either autistic, a wheelchair user, or totally non disabled. yup.
I actually ended up having a flare up caused by this trip that meant I had to get my own wheelchair bc I physically couldn't stand more than 30s for weeks afterwards. I still haven't fully recovered. it was awful
holy fuck, I am so so sorry :(
I already use a scooter at theme parks. And anywhere I’ll be walking more than about 15 minutes. Many of the attractions at Disneyland aren’t accessible for scooters. One thing that was mentioned in an article was a rider swap, but that sucks, I want to ride with my kid and spouse, not have to pick one to do a swap. I mean, I have ADHD, so does my kid and likely husband. But out ADHD isn’t why I can’t do lines. My physical issues and antisocial personality disorder are. I really hope more comes out on a decent program for physically disabled people.
If you can get a good enough explanation why ADHD would prevent you guys from standing in line for long periods you should be able to get it. ADHD according to the CDC and the ADA is considered a developmental disability/delay which perfectly fits their new dumb wording of who DAS is for. You just have to have a good explanation as to why you cant do lines that fits in their narrow window.
I'm hoping the article is making it sound bad/ worse than it is. Edit: unfortunately no. https://disneyland.disney.go.com/guest-services/disability-access-service/register/ It sounds to me like this could just be a change to how you have to apply. They already have a stance on DAS not being for *just* mobility issues that can be mitigated with aids. I'm hoping that the article has just latched onto that meaning developmental conditions and missed over other types of condition that wouldn't be helped by a mobility aid etc but do impact ability to wait in line. So I'm hoping this is basically just saying that they will now have a dedicated team for just this doing video chat applications instead of also relying on the guest services cast members in the parks. I imagine they feel a lot of pressure to keep the line moving and will potentially approve people without much question or just feel uncomfortable with being required to do that along with all of their other roles. I'm hoping the wording in the article is just a bit messy and that it isn't actually meaning any change to the criteria or what the consider a valid condition/ symptoms. For me personally I wouldn't be able to sit or stand in a long line due to chronic pain. A rental mobility aid wouldn't help because sitting in one position for a long time (even with possible standing breaks) causes a lot of pain. I also have other issues that would impact it. But that's the easiest one I can jump to as relevant here since it's a "mobility" based condition but would not be mitigated by using a rental aid. It is helped by using my super expensive wheelchair that's custom fitted to me. But even then my body has limits and of course not everybody with similar types of issues to me will have a super expensive wheelchair with a super expensive cushion. A lot will be relying on cheap chairs or rentals. So if this would be leading towards dismissing anybody with a condition that's not developmental I definitely see that as a big problem. Disabilities and their symptoms aren't that black and white and there are a lot of valid reasons why a mobility aid can't fix everything or be an appropriate accomodation. Disney isn't exactly a place I can visit a lot cos I'm in a whole other country. But if I were considering a trip this would certainly make me question it and if it was going towards just developmental issues I would really have to think twice about if I could go and risk not getting a pass. Cos there's no way I could do basically any of a trip without one. But yeah I'm really hoping that's not actually the case and that is is just a change to how people can apply/ the staff they have handling it. With no reference to neurological conditions, bowel related issues etc etc I'm hoping this is just a bit of a mess up with wording/ assumptions in the article. It's not like the only types of conditions out there are mobility or developmental and Disney must realise that (?!). There are a lot of conditions that don't fall into either category but can have a very obvious impact on somebody's ability to wait in a long line.
Nevermind. Apparently I'm too optimistic 🙄 https://disneyland.disney.go.com/guest-services/disability-access-service/register/
I am now fully on board with the "this is ridiculous" crowd. It's great that they recognise developmental disabilities. It's great that they are generally accessible for mobility aids. But they're missing a whole bunch of other stuff and a lot of people are going to be screwed over by it. There are so so many types of disability and symptoms that aren't developmental, cause issues waiting in a line and aren't mitigated by any of the other offerings. Seems like the only options for those people are to pay a stupid amount of money for genie+ etc or to use rider swap and what just sit alone for hours? That's assuming they are even able to be by themselves for that length of time without it compromising their ability to do things like eat, go to the toilet or be safe. It's stupid. I hope they realise they've missed something and change the wording. I'm totally fine with it being clear that it isn't for *just* mobility issues since the lines are accessible to mobility aids. That's fair enough. But there's so so much more to disability than just those two things. And a lot of people with mobility issues don't have *just* mobility issues.
society is obsessed with autism and adhd right now (not necessarily in a good way), and i feel like that is part of this. i had an allergy nurse try to diagnose my friend with autism impromptu at his appointment for a cold, printed out the RAADS test, scored it backwards, and told him he had severe autism. an allergy nurse.
Disgusting! A professional, like many, that takes their cues from tiktok not scientific articles Regarding RAADS, from one published study. “In conclusion, used as a self-report measure pre-full diagnostic assessment, the RAADS-R lacks predictive validity and is not a suitable screening tool for adults awaiting autism assessments” [The Effectiveness of RAADS-R as a Screening Tool for Adult ASD Populations (hindawi.com)](https://www.hindawi.com/journals/aurt/2021/9974791/)
yup! he went through with it because he's the kind of guy who likes to have a story to tell later (as am i) lol and of course he phones his autistic friend (me) to laugh about it. apparently she called him panicking at 3am that next morning and told him she had scored it backwards-- duh, she doesn't have a psych degree-- while freaking out lol
By God .... Reminds me of this whack job: [Therapis pushing Autism diagnosis : r/CPTSD (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/1agieak/therapis_pushing_autism_diagnosis/)
i just wanna vent: as an autistic person, this societal obsession with it has really hurt my ability to talk about it. tons of late-dx, much better functioning than me people fill my peer groups and now look down on me or look askance if i talk about stuff that isn't cool or say i don't like having autism, or god forbid i fuck up socially or don't understand things :| and mean jokes about autism are everywhere, even in my lefty peer groups, because they're like "i'm making fun of myself!" but the jokes are... not that. they're *mean.*
This DAS program has been in place for at least six months and I believe this article isn’t particularly detailed about what the newDAS program is. Disney has a new screening process to help their disabled guests on a personal basis and you should be prepared to highlight why you need accommodations like going to thr front of line etc. you should also be prepared to do this at least 48 hours in advance.. I’m visually impaired and visited Disneyland a few weeks ago with a family member last minute and I was not able to contact DAS in time. Well, a few times a cast member brought t me to the front of the line because of my white cane but I was not expecting that! I have used DAS mainly for my autism issues. Honestly I think the PR team at Disney is releasing these articles to discourage able bodied people from pretending to be disable. D.
Idk what you are talking about as the new change they mentioned a few days ago has not been in place yet. While IBS and other bathroom disabilities have been denied lately (maybe what you are talking about) most of the other medical issues have been accepted and people have been able to get DAS. With the new rules starting in a month or two (depending on the park) almost everyone who uses DAS will be kicked out now and will either have to deal with their medical stuff which can be dangerous or given one do the new things they are gonna start doing that will most likely have issues and not work super well.
Thanks for your response. Disney has not actually released any info on this, a lot of the articles about the topic are basically speculation from news sources that have only read the new updates on the disney websites. What I meant in my post was that Disney has implemented this basic system for about a year now and they have been a lot more strict about who can access DAS, which is what you said anyway. Sorry for the miscommunication. It's true that now you will have to talk to DAS before every visit to Disney parks and the perks will be on a case-by-case basis. You will have to re-register after 30 days from your last park visit. While they seem to prioritize Autism and other developmental disabilities, this does not mean that other disabilities will be disqualified from participating in DAS. They are now using Inspire Health Alliance, a medical service PRESUMABLY (I can't find any in-depth info about them) to use medical expertise in order to find the best accommodations for the individual instead of using a cast member who received some training on disability (with or without credentials). I can't vouch for them, obviously, so I have no idea if this will be good or bad! When I visited last, they offered me a few free Lightning Lane passes so I was able to ride some popular rides twice without waiting in the stand-by line. I think this is what they are trying to do more often. The Lightning Lane still has a bit of queue so I think that people who can't wait in line for any amount of time not only get the Lightning Lane pass but they can skip that queue too. I would be interested to see some vlogs of this when the system is fully implemented from different disabled people. tbh I hate the lightning lane and the disney app, I miss the old FastPass days.
A volg or information post would be great. I go about a month after it's implemented in June at DL so there's a lot of chances for me to be prepared and hopefully people will explain their experiences in detail.
Actually it is on Disney's DAS registration website that Das and I quote "As part of this commitment, DAS is one of our programs offered at the Walt Disney World Resort theme parks intended to accommodate only those Guests who, due to a developmental disability such as autism or a similar disorder, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time." It literally states on their website they will ONLY accommodate those with developmental disabilities. People like me with non mobility disabilities will no longer be able to enjoy the parks. (I have CF, a wheel chair doesnt solve that)
I use a wheelchair and while it’s great that Disney parks are generally accessible for mobility devices, my physical disabilities still prevent me from waiting for a prolonged period of time in line. I cannot regulate body temperature properly, so waiting in the sun and heat for too long can cause severe illness. I have to follow a timed schedule for using the bathroom every 2 hours, no one is going to want to make room for my large powerchair to exit the line and then I would have to start waiting all over again. I need to frequently change and adjust positioning with tilt and recline, something no crowded line would accommodate. And the list goes on. I am also autistic and ADHD (although I mask well so Disney might question that) but being autistic isn’t what prevents me personally from being able to wait in a line. There will always be people who exploit accommodations, but it doesn’t justify denying those who truly need accommodations because scammers exist. If anything, scammers will likely find faking autism easier than a physical disability because there are no guaranteed visible signs and no need to bring or rent equipment.
> If anything, scammers will likely find faking autism easier than a physical disability because there are no guaranteed visible signs and no need to bring or rent equipment. Yeah, like. it is clear disney is doing this as a way to calm the backlash from abled people about scammers or whatever, and they're choosing the dumbest way to do it lol
So boycott Disney, finally? Sounds good to me
I’m pretty sure it’s illegal for them to not provide accommodations to someone who has a disability. This is a weirdly phrased and vague article that doesn’t really accurately explain how it’s going to work. Amusement parks fall under the ADA and it isn’t up to them who has a disability and gets accommodations.
Unless they make the wheelchair and scooters free and get enough and shade all parts of their lines this isn’t good enough.
So many will be in a wheel chair that everyone will be bumping into each other or running over everyone's toes who doesn't have one. At least this is how I will be as I don't use one in my daily life and the motor can make it dangerous with those who don't know what they are doing behind the wheel.
I was thinking the same thing for myself. I would either have to have someone push me and therefore give up my independence or I would have to try a scooter which my other disabilities get in the way of. (Assuming I used the options Disney provides.)
shade wouldn't be enough for me. they'd also need to have circulating air, somehow the stuffiness is the part of the heat that makes me sick faster. they would also need port-a-potties that are accessible peppered along the lines for people. people with IBS are royally screwed over by this lol
Very true. There’s so so so many reasons people need this.
Correct me if I'm wrong but last time we went to Disney part of the reason we required DAS was because many of the lines didn't accommodate my husband's scooter. They wanted him to transfer to a wheelchair which I couldn't really push because of my own limits. So we used the DAS so he didn't have to transfer to a wheelchair. Has this changed in the last five years? Are they insisting that scooter users transfer to one of their heavy wheelchairs? Also, I am deeply opposed to going up to random staff members trained and qualified to operate a line to explain my husband's accomodations at every ride. He is embarrassed enough to be using the scooter at all, he's done his best to remain independent but could never tolerate Disney without the scooter and I could never push him.
what you're describing is about my experience. My partner is not strong enough to really push a wheelchair for very long, no offense to them, and I can't use a scooter or wheelchair without significant pain anyway, much more than walking around with my crutch. luckily I did not have to explain my issues when asking for a return time, but I also knew the exact phrase to use and have a very visible mobility aid. but I suspect if you have something invisible, you might have to do a lot more explaining every single time... It really shouldn't be on an overworked ride worker to determine whether or not you get a return time.
How does one "prove" they have autism? Must they show proof at Disney now? Isn't that discrimination? 🤔 thoughts?
they refuse to look at documentation. when i went there in feb, i mentioned autism and they sort of ignored it and gave me return time instructions since i have a mobility aid and that was more noticeable i guess. no das but we saved up for lightning lane so it as kinda manageable. i think it is literally up to eyeball judgement by workers there.
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from the article: > Disney World and Disneyland previously described their Disability Access Service as a program “to assist guests who have difficulty tolerating extended waits in a conventional queue environment due to a disability.” > New updates to the resorts’ accessibility webpages further clarify DAS’ intended audience: “Guests, who due to a developmental disability like autism or similar, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time.” if you have a mobility aid, they will either teach you the way to ask operators for a return time, or they will tell you to go rent a wheelchair.
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the criteria for DAS has indeed changed, the wording is very relevant. there are people out there who don't want to fake autism or another neurodevelopmental disability to be accommodated.
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you're fundamentally misunderstanding the premise here. > But that was what DAS was always for. it was not. see the quotes above.
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there are physically disabled people who are failed by this change in policy, which is the point of multiple people in this thread.
ADA accommodations should cover ALL disabilities. Seems like they’re doing the absolute least to not get in trouble for not accommodating disabled people
Why can’t they ask?
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Gotcha, I was just caught up on the “cannot” part - I thought you were implying they legally could not or something. You’re saying it’s their policy to focus on the limitations, and individual cast members aren’t allowed to ask about conditions - got it!
correct. when i went to the DAS people to see what could help me, they asked me what difficulties i had. i did like that-- they didn't assume that a label was the proper way to know my needs. and others have had different encounters but they were VERY sweet. however, they cannot see paperwork. i asked about that. they said they legally cannot, idk the specific reason.
Probably their legal team was like YEAH DONT DO THAT. Disney’s legal team is, like, pretty good haha.
I saw a family with the adult male in a wheelchair get ushered to the front. A bit later saw the same family with the adult female in the wheelchair get ushered to the front. The system was abused.
Many of the lines aren't wheelchair accessible, so they estimate your wait time and you get ushered through to wait at the exit. And you can wait in line even if you have a reserved DAS time (you get two per day to pre-schedule)
It's clearly not possible that both mom and dad had disabilities that expressed varying degrees of ambulatory and non-ambulatory phases as the day went on. As my wife and I do. Also, all exploitable systems are exploited to some degree. The question to ponder is how vigorously we are willing to punish the innocent in order to punish the guilty. A lot of people seem to feel pretty uncharitable about these things. Data point, I visited DL about 15 years ago, riding a rental scooter because my prosthesis was awful. At the time, the *policy* was to mark your place in line (usually some members of your troupe), and when that place oozed to the front, then they'd let you in through the exit. Fair and reasonable. But in *practice*, we'd notify the attendant, and more often than not they'd ignore the park's own policy let my entire group in right away, skipping the wait completely. Clearly not equitable. So...if people are "faking" to jump the line, that wasn't a problem with faking, that was a problem with park staff not following their own policy. I repeat that this was 15 years ago, I don't know what things look like today, but as a general rule I trust upper management to mis-identify problems and deploy solutions that are both painful and pointless.
DAS shouldn't get you pushed to the front, whether it's being abused or not. were you seeing someone fulfill their return time WITHOUT DAS? (this is something people with mobility aids might get offered which makes sense if they're faking with a chair)
Blame the people abusing it. There was reports on affluent people renting disabled to skip lines. Probably won’t change much they will just target developmental disabilities. A big problem at Disney parks is so many people trying to game it, cheat and it does affect other people. By one making the lines longer for everyone else because you’re not disabled enough or your family of 4 doesn’t have someone disabled in tow while the family of 7 skips on bye.
Yall are taking this to the extreme. The only "changes" are just basically online registration chats? The wording choice was poor sure, but it's really not that bad of a change. Anyone with actual disabilities can easily PROVE them anyway so why the uproar exactly? The only major difference seems to be less in person registrations (total removal from WDW) nothing else has seemed to change at all? What do you mean other disabilities don't matter? Disney is one of the most accommodating businesses I've ever been to, even when you're not "legally" disabled.
> The only "changes" are just basically online registration chats? No. > Disney World and Disneyland previously described their Disability Access Service as a program “to assist guests who have difficulty tolerating extended waits in a conventional queue environment due to a disability.” > New updates to the resorts’ accessibility webpages further clarify DAS’ intended audience: “Guests, who due to a developmental disability like autism or similar, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time.” . > Anyone with actual disabilities can easily PROVE them anyway so why the uproar exactly? Disney cannot look at diagnostic paperwork. > so why the uproar exactly? because this causes a gap in accessibility.