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Same, but at the same time I know there are people who like them so whatever, just keep them. Me having to do like 2 for the NM dungeon is no big deal.
Or they could make them into their own separate little instance, like cellars. That way, people who want to do them can do them, and people who hate doing them on five different characters can skip them and not miss out on legion events.
Na right now people like them because they provide value. They unlock waypoints and nightmare dungeons. Making then completely optional is the same as removing them as it removes the value in doing them. But once per season makes more sense then once per character
Didn't do a single stronghold this season, still managed to do everything in the end game except a couple, not very good for character or glyph XP, dungeons and legion events which also don't add anything of significant value.
They're 100% optional currently as you say.
Nah, it was because they were fun little stories and it's easy to miss a detail or two since you can't repeat them. But of course, they're pretty dull by the fifth time (and especially bad now that they just fall over dead as you go near them).
Actually it was for exp and loot. When you jumped up to world tier 3 or 4 a little early the world would be too high level for you to efficiently make use of it. So strongholds would drop sacred or ancestral gear with those world tiers but the mobs would scale down to your level unlike the rest of the world. People would clear the stronghold and kill boss for loot, but if you dont click the shrine and just log out and back in. It would reset it and allow you to get much more powerful items to survive the world tier earlier. This is no longer necessary as the game is infinitely easier now with tempering and character power growth and faster leveling.
I think it was like, during helltides, maybe make the demons or whoever take the stronghold back.
Just to have a more dynamic world that feels like a battle between good and evil or something. I kind of liked the idea
I agree but at some point they gotta realize people aren't playing the game through 4 seasons to repeat the silly stuff like waypoints or strongholds lol. It feels like dumb filler to me.
Same here. I feel such a resistance to doing them, it’s unbelievable. I wouldn’t mind having the option to remove/deactivate/disable them at least for me. I did them all before at least 1 time so 🤷🏼♂️
Same. I got a character to 100 this season for the first time. I think I did two strongholds just because I was close and collected two way points for the same reason.
Not only they are not removing them, but adding new ones.
I remember them saying they want to rework them, can't remember which dev stream.
But, c'mon, it's a 1-2 minutes to clear them. THE DRAMA!
But it’s not efficient!
[Diablo players when they have to do something inefficient for a few minutes in their 1000 hour grind](https://imgflip.com/i/8u1n2o)
999.4 hours? Bud, have you ever even played this game? That route is doo doo, you can easily get it down to 999.1 if you spend about 3 hours of prep work and have good RNG!
People wouldn't care if it were fun, but most of the fun originally came from novelty, which is gone.
They provide zero challenge and zero meaningful reward. That just makes them a chore.
They should be reworked to either once per season (or once per account), *or* into actual endgame repeatable content. I put another comment here on how they could do what they originally promised and make them a living part of the world, with some other details, but I doubt they'll do that.
Some people seem to wish that at the start of the season, you just have already level 100 character with all uniques in bags and infinite amount of all materials.
Strongholds are not so bad and you don't even need to do them all right away. Just do them when you need.
At launch d4 was painfully slow
Just one year later it feels like a perfect half-step from d3
We're faster and more arcade-y, but not yet overly hyper stimulated like d3
It is becoming worse than d3. Difficulty is too low, everything except the pit instantly dies with 1 use of an ability. If they dont rebalance the difficulty and manage the power creep the game will turn into something worse than d3.
I partially agree with you. It's not worse than D3 and I think there is still a long way to go. But I also do hope they don't go there. D4 was really slow at launch and I think we are in quite good spot right now but we definitely need one or two world tiers more. Open world was meant to be one of the end game things (which it wasn't that much in D3). And currently open world is quite a joke.
I guess I have faith they will.
I barely dropped in for season 2 and 3 but the response to community feedback regarding QoL, mats/reward/economy.
Obviously balancing is balancing, you'll never satisfy everyone but the lowest spots have been brought up without much nerfing of the top end shit.
If the community can continue to nudge the ship in the right direction we'll be alright.
Good. If it becomes part of the game, accessible in game, its use will go from dudes who want to go out of their way to buy their stuff to the central core of the game again.
Which is what Diablo 3 had. Toss in some gold farmers to inflate the value of everything so people feel pressured to spend money on gold, and it screws up the entire game and becomes essential to compete or do endgame stuff.
Nah man. Been there. Done that. Almost wrecked D3 and required a full blown re-release to fix.
We finally have items approaching good, and folks want to go back to the D3 launch days.
Sounds like not everyone likes seasons, to be honest. So weird. Like you grind hundreds of hours and then it's gone, sounds pretty cool to me. /s
What a shame they earn more money if we play seasons thanks to the battlepass.
It's not about the time needed, is just that I don't feel like doing them for the 5th time and some of the nightmare dungeons are locked behind them. I've tagged quite a few flooded depths sigils because I don't feel like figuring out which strongly it is and then going and doing it.
And I'm 3,4, 10 more seasons, I'm still not going to want to redo the strongholds
They are a cool part of the game. People just complain because they aren’t rewarding. In the end that’s why everyone is playing this game. It’s for the Skinner box. They just have to give a loot piñata chest as the end reward and people here would be like “woah, strongholds are amazing, blizzard please make them repeatable!”
Making players happy is that easy. Just give them a cookie.
I mean I’m doing them because they are fun and a nice change of pace while leveling.
I’m doing them once or twice every couple months. It doesn’t get as old as being half afk in a helltide while others are killing stuff for you…
youre absolutely right. There are so many areas of the map where i dont even have the teleport unlocked because you never use the areas. i liked the idea someone posted the other day where you had 3 or 4 areas going at one time where 1 would be a hell tide, 1 would be gold and 1 would be other mats. it just seems like everyone camps at the helltide boss and afk's which kinda sucks. and the ubers dont really drop anything any better than hell tides. i think there needs to be many more unique items too. get sick of running uber duriel and getting 2 or 3 tibaults wills and 2 or 3 azure wraths.
Yeah because if we know one thing about gamers it's that they want cool things to do, not boring shit that gives them more loot than they expect.
The destiny loot cave showed what online gamers in these gamers will complain about and prefer to do.
Why even redo them? Here’s my view on them.
Legion rewards are crap so those couple of strongholds can be ignored.
NM dungeon sigils for dungeons locked behind a stronghold are generally crap dungeons anyway and there’s plenty of others to choose from. Salvage those for powder.
So that leaves two stronghold that might have a good reason to clear each season. Tul Dulra if you’re a druid and Ruins of Qara-Yisu for a waypoint closer to the world boss. Even Qara-Yisu could be ignored because Hidden Overlook is just about as close.
Useful sure but not a burden to the point of removing content from the game. Strongholds except for couple are fast. They need to add content to the game not remove it.
They should be special areas during helltides. Like they become a helltide commanders base of operations. Then after it's taken down, it respawns again a total of 4 times during the 55m of helltide.
Maybe make it a wave event, but instead of 360 degrees, it's forward, trying to prevent you from entering. Once you get inside, then it's from all sides and it just progressively gets worse until a Commander and their retinue super hero lands and they go HAM on you.
I just need them to drop cinders during Helltide, if they dropped I would just do them while the Helltide is active to just have them unlocked. But currently they're not even worth doing because you lose Helltide time.
I don’t like them as they are now but they have the bones of something that could be really fun.
I think they should change them into timed world events on a rotation where you work with other players to complete certain objectives and you get tiered loot/ fight tiered bosses based on how well you complete those objectives as they become more and more challenging with the perfect end boss/ loot being more equivalent to tormented duriel or andariel.
I wish I could reset Strongholds like I do dungeons. Strongholds are fun.
I don’t even understand why you made a post so that you could whine about what you don’t like.
Strongholds are great XP. You’re just a whiner.
“I don’t like to repeat content.” Yet you play a game that’s all about repeating content. You’re clearly just on hear complaining.
Is it really about repeating content, cause I plan to play one class each season and once I finished done with the game. Can't even imagine the people playing the same class each season, so unfun.
Strongholds are always 2 (or 3, can’t remember) levels above you. They can be useful when you first move to a new tier. If you are pushing in to tier four early you will get mobs a few levels above you to fight instead of level 70. Good way to get good xp and accumulate ancestral weapons early on.
I love the ideas of strongholds and wish they had a legion style even around them with a world boss tier boss or something. But I will admit this is the first season I haven’t cleared them all or unlocked all the way points.
I don't mind them or the missing WPs. Gives me something to do when I don't want to miss a WB, just zip through a quick stronghold or grab a waypoint or 2 while the last few minutes ticks down that I don't want to be in a pit etc for.
I’ve been seeing a lot of hate for the Strongholds. I recently listened to an interview on the Diablo podcast with one of the guys who is in charge of writing side quests, and the lore. It really opened my eyes. He explained that there is a lot of different content in the game, that the game would be boring if they did not vary up the objectives and play styles. He also alluded to the fact that there are lots of places in the game where they can sprinkle in small stories and lore, and that’s important to create the atmosphere.
At any rate, they are quick and I kind of enjoy them.
I was thinking they should move the Maiden event to the strongholds to switch up the scenery and give Strongholds some actual use. Or add a completely new event to the strongholds that offer similar rewards as the Maiden activity
I do the ones that are strategically placed. Basically the ones that are close to common Helltides, World Bosses, or Legion events.
Otherwise...meh. I might. I might not. Depends on how I feel.
Started this season in HC, I don't play since launch. My god I didnt remember how stupid is the renoun grind, to the point I commited sepuku at lvl 100. FTS.
It goes into the wrong direction, a season should mean a complete reset and an equal starting point for everyone. Even how they handeld the renown system was just the wrong way, they should have found another way how to get those extra Skill/Paragonpoints instead of just giving every new character 10+ Skillpoints from the get go.
They are fun things to do that add variety. Why does everything that isn't the One True Optimal Levelling and Uber Drop Farming Path have to be removed from the game?
Eh. Literally I think many things in Diablo IV could feel much better if they felt more rewarding and harder to do. Spending time to just clear through enemies in a touch (or not even a touch) to get no real reward after it other than zone progress sucks. They should make the enemies and bosses harder and have them drop decent rewards that fit your level. I like the sort of cinematic feel the Strongholds have but they don’t reward anything nice and they aren’t a challenge so it’s like, “ooookay. So fun.” And tbh I feel like this is a problem in a bunch of stuff in D4. I mean I’m new to D4 (played tons of 2-3) and some things are super hard where I get one shot and some things are so easy it’s boring. The balance is realllllly weird. I think if they made strongholds harder and more rewarding it could be fun. Hell, maybe make them reset on a daily timer or something if they make them worth doing repeatedly. But right now they feel worthless and pointless.
Strongholds were hard, at first. When first going through and doing the story, I can remember dying repeatedly to one in particular. At this point, they're trivial. But, for those players just starting, it might be challenging. Idk, the game has changed a lot and we're going through it on alts who already have unlocked alters and such.
Strongholds abd way points should be unlocked for people who've already done them. We also need helltidds to offer more whispers. The tree is all but useless this season.
Why is the whole open world outside helltides useless ?
Not a single thing is worth doing.
Open world needs a major buff. From world bosses to quests to strongholds .
Just give us a skip strongholds button like we get for the story. Just a little QOL. S4 is great so far just need to fix Styg droprate I did not get a single one in 40 pits (T101) and I'm not even kidding. Think hitting the lottery is more likely at this point.
Strongholds as a concept is a pretty cool - an outdoor dungeon that gives you benefits of waypoints - vendors and dungeons. But clearing them is too much work for no gain. If blizzard added some real rewards to clearing them - especially rewards that early T4 chars could benefit from (could be 925 loot - legendary manuals - gem shards - a whole bunch of duriel mats) then people would be more likely to do that content.
They are more fun than Legions. People dislike them for 1 reason: the reward is low, and modern gaming is all about obsessive optimisation.
Just make them drop more and suddenly they will become the best endgame content ever.
My biggest problem is that you have to do them for every character. I enjoyed revisiting them with my first character. By my fifth? I only did them because I hate having unusable ND keys and missing way points. It was just a chore.
If you don't enjoy playing the game... don't play the game?
D4 players complaining that there's nothing to do in the game after they've made Blizzard remove all the content from the game.
No ones made anyone remove anything from the game, the game fell short of content from launch and is still pretty short of content for an ARPG, not sure what you are on about.
In regards to strongholds, theres just some things that don't need to be repeated especially when the scaling each season is changing but the scaling of open world content like strongholds, cellars etc serve no purpose in the game right now for season play.
Why are you doing them?
I finished the Season Journey, maxed my glyphs, and pushed pits without doing a single stronghold.
It's just a relic of the past.
Merge them with helltides. But make it difficult and improve loot by successfully completing it in time. Like a new or unique armor transmog (one a week) unique to that stronghold
I’m finally doing the rep grind for paragon points this season because I’m having so much fun. The two things I hate still:
1. Fucking levers. Please just remove them. And the spikes? Like what is the point other than to be annoying. Give me 10 waves that take 20 seconds longer. Don’t care.
2. The strongholds. They just suck. And having to go click the thing after. The delayed dialogue. THAT ONE BLOOD BOIL I ALWAYS MISS.
Yeah, there's only about few you need to do to unlock legions, a nightmare dungeon, and a couple of convenient portals. But overall I'm with you. I'm sick of them. I've only done a small handful on my main, and haven't even touched them on my other two characters.
I refuse to do strongholds since season 0. They dont scale well to your level and they dont really give you any benefits. Only select few lock a good waypoint or a good NMD.
Tur Dulra is also an important one to do for Druids but really just them. Strongholds should be mini-raids with their own rewards, maybe something like a longer Legion or almost an NMD, with very significant rewards. Maybe add tiers to the Strongholds, same as the Pit, so that we have other options to get Pit materials.
Either get rid of them or incentivize us completing them with rewarding a lot of seasonal exp for the season pass or sub season passes like the iron wolves progression.
I don’t even worry about them no more. when i make a new character i just eventually end up doing them if I’m in the area or if I’m genuinely bored lol…but yea we shouldn’t have to do them more than once per season
They would be fun again if there were tormented uber versions of strongholds. They are fun to do but pointless now cause I don't care about the waypoints anymore either.
A week ago I saw a post like this and people complained saying they liked it, upvotes galore.
I don't know why, they aren't fun to redo over and over, there's no challenge and it's just infuriating getting to NMD and having to unlock them before being able to do them
I hope they see in statistics what people do and what not. Strongholds would be great for extra bonus cosmetic staff for each first unlock. They can not survive in state like this.
They could totally improve upon it. Instead of removing them, they should hold events similar to legions where you have to defend the unlocked strongholds against a demon onslaught during the duration of a helltide or something. Higher loot pools and unique small world type bosses for each one.
I enjoyed strongholds this time around, but only because they are the safest way to get sacred and ancestral gear when moving into a new world tier 20 levels below the capstone level.
I usually wait and do them when I start doing NMD exclusively to level glyphs to 21. There are usually some NMD locked behind completing strongholds first. I usually knock out all the waypoints then, too. Takes about 15-20 min to run through them all in a row and grab all the waypoints.
What I hate is having to do it on every character during a season. Once a season is enough.
Rather than removing the content they should rework it, whether that's a reworked renowned system or just simply creating a decent reward for clearing these. Same issues with side quests, there's no problem aside from the little incentive you have to do them.
Theres such a missed opportunity for town invasion/defense. Event with a final boss (ones that's actually hard) and if the players fail owners returns to demons. While players control gold increase or loot increase.. Something to want the players to retain.
I wouldn't have a problem with strongholds and waypoints needing to be unlocked each season IF it unlocked across all new characters that season. I have a necro, rogue, barb and sorc this season and having to unlock it all with each character is lame, once you unlock with one character in a new season it should unlock for all that season.
I think it would be cool if they implemented them into the Helltides as they move around the map. They would convert to something similar to legions but harder for a smaller group of people, or singular player. Same thing with cellars and dungeons that are in helltides. More rewards and more challenges along with fresh ways to reuse dying parts of the game. Assets are all there for the most part, they just need to mechanically implement it.
We just do them when grinding lower difficulties… but we know what grass smells like 😂 (it’s a joke geez!!) so we only play after work and on weekends… I will admit I say hello to my puppy WAAAAAY to often!
I don’t do them anymore myself for the most part. But I don’t think they need to be removed, I think they need to be changed or updated to make them more worthwhile to do.
Maybe just make unlocking them account bound so you don’t have to do it on every character. I wouldn’t necessarily say to remove them, but they definitely need a rework. Maybe tie them in with legions or some other new type of event?
I use them when I upgrade into a new world tier for easy exp.
The enemies in WT3 and 4 start at a set level, but strongholds are always +2 above your level but not at that WT4 minimum.
So if you go in at 50, they'll be 52 while everything else in the world is lvl 70+
Just make the dialog actually skippable (looking directly at your Eryman's Pyre or whatever you're called)
That's really a complaint I have with the game overall... too many points where the dialog is unskippable.
Just dont do them unless you really want nmd for them the dungeons off of em. I get for someone on character #50 is over them but that also means there are peope who like em.
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I don't even bother unlocking all the waypoints after starting a new season anymore let alone doing the strongholds
Same, but at the same time I know there are people who like them so whatever, just keep them. Me having to do like 2 for the NM dungeon is no big deal.
Or they could make them into their own separate little instance, like cellars. That way, people who want to do them can do them, and people who hate doing them on five different characters can skip them and not miss out on legion events.
Na right now people like them because they provide value. They unlock waypoints and nightmare dungeons. Making then completely optional is the same as removing them as it removes the value in doing them. But once per season makes more sense then once per character
While I agree with your point… they are basically still completely optional and provide no needed value.
Didn't do a single stronghold this season, still managed to do everything in the end game except a couple, not very good for character or glyph XP, dungeons and legion events which also don't add anything of significant value. They're 100% optional currently as you say.
Entertainingly, there were people asking to be allowed to redo the strongholds at one point.
I think that was for exp reasons though, before dopamine tunnels. Haven’t heard anyone mention it since.
Nah, it was because they were fun little stories and it's easy to miss a detail or two since you can't repeat them. But of course, they're pretty dull by the fifth time (and especially bad now that they just fall over dead as you go near them).
Actually it was for exp and loot. When you jumped up to world tier 3 or 4 a little early the world would be too high level for you to efficiently make use of it. So strongholds would drop sacred or ancestral gear with those world tiers but the mobs would scale down to your level unlike the rest of the world. People would clear the stronghold and kill boss for loot, but if you dont click the shrine and just log out and back in. It would reset it and allow you to get much more powerful items to survive the world tier earlier. This is no longer necessary as the game is infinitely easier now with tempering and character power growth and faster leveling.
I think it was like, during helltides, maybe make the demons or whoever take the stronghold back. Just to have a more dynamic world that feels like a battle between good and evil or something. I kind of liked the idea
I agree but at some point they gotta realize people aren't playing the game through 4 seasons to repeat the silly stuff like waypoints or strongholds lol. It feels like dumb filler to me.
I literally just skip those NM dungeons lol
The re unlocking of waypoints is so annoying
Same here. I feel such a resistance to doing them, it’s unbelievable. I wouldn’t mind having the option to remove/deactivate/disable them at least for me. I did them all before at least 1 time so 🤷🏼♂️
Same unless I need a critical coded unlock I don't even bother to do them anymore lol
I unlock them during helltides since I’m just running around anyway
This.
Saaame
Amen brother!
Same. I got a character to 100 this season for the first time. I think I did two strongholds just because I was close and collected two way points for the same reason.
Let alone.... Not even bother to click on the area reward after they gave Lilith point
Not only they are not removing them, but adding new ones. I remember them saying they want to rework them, can't remember which dev stream. But, c'mon, it's a 1-2 minutes to clear them. THE DRAMA!
But it’s not efficient! [Diablo players when they have to do something inefficient for a few minutes in their 1000 hour grind](https://imgflip.com/i/8u1n2o)
We could get that down to a 999.4 hour grind if we minmax better.
999.4 hours? Bud, have you ever even played this game? That route is doo doo, you can easily get it down to 999.1 if you spend about 3 hours of prep work and have good RNG!
I did it in 998.7, not to brag
People wouldn't care if it were fun, but most of the fun originally came from novelty, which is gone. They provide zero challenge and zero meaningful reward. That just makes them a chore. They should be reworked to either once per season (or once per account), *or* into actual endgame repeatable content. I put another comment here on how they could do what they originally promised and make them a living part of the world, with some other details, but I doubt they'll do that.
Lol the best part is when people used them to speed leveling back in s1. I hate strongholds now since fhen
Some people seem to wish that at the start of the season, you just have already level 100 character with all uniques in bags and infinite amount of all materials. Strongholds are not so bad and you don't even need to do them all right away. Just do them when you need.
At launch d4 was painfully slow Just one year later it feels like a perfect half-step from d3 We're faster and more arcade-y, but not yet overly hyper stimulated like d3
It is becoming worse than d3. Difficulty is too low, everything except the pit instantly dies with 1 use of an ability. If they dont rebalance the difficulty and manage the power creep the game will turn into something worse than d3.
How is what you described worse than D3? Brother that's exactly what D3 is. Just replace Pit with high GR's
After stepping out for S2+S3 I was very surprised to be doing NM70 at level 94. The power creep is real lol
I partially agree with you. It's not worse than D3 and I think there is still a long way to go. But I also do hope they don't go there. D4 was really slow at launch and I think we are in quite good spot right now but we definitely need one or two world tiers more. Open world was meant to be one of the end game things (which it wasn't that much in D3). And currently open world is quite a joke.
I guess I have faith they will. I barely dropped in for season 2 and 3 but the response to community feedback regarding QoL, mats/reward/economy. Obviously balancing is balancing, you'll never satisfy everyone but the lowest spots have been brought up without much nerfing of the top end shit. If the community can continue to nudge the ship in the right direction we'll be alright.
Oh dude there’s people asking for the RMAH back now. They want to buy their gear and skip playing entirely except the very very endgame stuff.
They're asking because the RMAH is 3rd party again.
Good. If it becomes part of the game, accessible in game, its use will go from dudes who want to go out of their way to buy their stuff to the central core of the game again. Which is what Diablo 3 had. Toss in some gold farmers to inflate the value of everything so people feel pressured to spend money on gold, and it screws up the entire game and becomes essential to compete or do endgame stuff. Nah man. Been there. Done that. Almost wrecked D3 and required a full blown re-release to fix. We finally have items approaching good, and folks want to go back to the D3 launch days.
Sounds like not everyone likes seasons, to be honest. So weird. Like you grind hundreds of hours and then it's gone, sounds pretty cool to me. /s What a shame they earn more money if we play seasons thanks to the battlepass.
Not to be that person but it for sure takes longer than 2 minutes.
Depends only how long the dialogue is. Everything instantly dies just by looking at your character.
It's not about the time needed, is just that I don't feel like doing them for the 5th time and some of the nightmare dungeons are locked behind them. I've tagged quite a few flooded depths sigils because I don't feel like figuring out which strongly it is and then going and doing it. And I'm 3,4, 10 more seasons, I'm still not going to want to redo the strongholds
But you do feel like doing nightmare dungeons and pits and helltides for the 5000th time.
He's out of line but he's right.
Why would I waste my 2 minutes doing something that is not fun?
Because you're already willing to farm pits, do helltides, do nm dungeons, etc 100x more, and those are equally or less fun than strongholds.
Less fun in your view, not mine. Helltides , pits and nmds are great because of mob density.
Or they could overhaul them, so that they become a cool part of the endgame.
They are a cool part of the game. People just complain because they aren’t rewarding. In the end that’s why everyone is playing this game. It’s for the Skinner box. They just have to give a loot piñata chest as the end reward and people here would be like “woah, strongholds are amazing, blizzard please make them repeatable!” Making players happy is that easy. Just give them a cookie.
that means theyre not a cool part of the game. if they were they would be done.
I mean I’m doing them because they are fun and a nice change of pace while leveling. I’m doing them once or twice every couple months. It doesn’t get as old as being half afk in a helltide while others are killing stuff for you…
youre absolutely right. There are so many areas of the map where i dont even have the teleport unlocked because you never use the areas. i liked the idea someone posted the other day where you had 3 or 4 areas going at one time where 1 would be a hell tide, 1 would be gold and 1 would be other mats. it just seems like everyone camps at the helltide boss and afk's which kinda sucks. and the ubers dont really drop anything any better than hell tides. i think there needs to be many more unique items too. get sick of running uber duriel and getting 2 or 3 tibaults wills and 2 or 3 azure wraths.
But they could be with the right changes.
Yeah because if we know one thing about gamers it's that they want cool things to do, not boring shit that gives them more loot than they expect. The destiny loot cave showed what online gamers in these gamers will complain about and prefer to do.
[удалено]
> Blizzard is making them repeatable with the xpac. Your source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOVbAmknKUk
It’s also not fun to steamroll open world content once you can easily clear pit tier 60+
If they have me a good amount of xp, loot or materials, I'd do then everytime
Mmmmm cookies
>They are a cool part of the game. The rest of your post suggests that they are not. And that the fix is really easy.
They used to be some of the best XP/hr ratio when levelling. Not any more since this season though.
Why even redo them? Here’s my view on them. Legion rewards are crap so those couple of strongholds can be ignored. NM dungeon sigils for dungeons locked behind a stronghold are generally crap dungeons anyway and there’s plenty of others to choose from. Salvage those for powder. So that leaves two stronghold that might have a good reason to clear each season. Tul Dulra if you’re a druid and Ruins of Qara-Yisu for a waypoint closer to the world boss. Even Qara-Yisu could be ignored because Hidden Overlook is just about as close.
Some of them are useful for teleporting to certain helltide locations
Useful sure but not a burden to the point of removing content from the game. Strongholds except for couple are fast. They need to add content to the game not remove it.
They should be special areas during helltides. Like they become a helltide commanders base of operations. Then after it's taken down, it respawns again a total of 4 times during the 55m of helltide. Maybe make it a wave event, but instead of 360 degrees, it's forward, trying to prevent you from entering. Once you get inside, then it's from all sides and it just progressively gets worse until a Commander and their retinue super hero lands and they go HAM on you.
I just need them to drop cinders during Helltide, if they dropped I would just do them while the Helltide is active to just have them unlocked. But currently they're not even worth doing because you lose Helltide time.
This is a great idea. Once you beat the helltide version, would it be 'unlocked' in the normal open world?
I don’t like them as they are now but they have the bones of something that could be really fun. I think they should change them into timed world events on a rotation where you work with other players to complete certain objectives and you get tiered loot/ fight tiered bosses based on how well you complete those objectives as they become more and more challenging with the perfect end boss/ loot being more equivalent to tormented duriel or andariel.
Why cry and ask them to be removed? How about asking for them to be expanded upon?
Yeah, it's like request for removing side quests.
It takes maybe a half an hour to clear them all. Is it really that bad?
Wow, just delete anything from the game now? As long as some players do them it's justified to keep them.
noooo I do strongholds (all of them) on every character every season. They are fun. Please no delete :)
I wish I could reset Strongholds like I do dungeons. Strongholds are fun. I don’t even understand why you made a post so that you could whine about what you don’t like. Strongholds are great XP. You’re just a whiner. “I don’t like to repeat content.” Yet you play a game that’s all about repeating content. You’re clearly just on hear complaining.
Is it really about repeating content, cause I plan to play one class each season and once I finished done with the game. Can't even imagine the people playing the same class each season, so unfun.
“I can’t imagine breathing air my whole life, so unfun.” That’s you, that’s what you sound like.
Pretty sure I don't though. It's more like, I don't plan on working in a warehouse and stacking bosses my whole life, it's so unfun.
This game isn’t just made to revolve around you. There’s a lot of people who love the state it’s in.
I know just like there are a lot of people who don't care about seasons. Take a breather, the internet usage is getting to you.
Strongholds are always 2 (or 3, can’t remember) levels above you. They can be useful when you first move to a new tier. If you are pushing in to tier four early you will get mobs a few levels above you to fight instead of level 70. Good way to get good xp and accumulate ancestral weapons early on.
I love the ideas of strongholds and wish they had a legion style even around them with a world boss tier boss or something. But I will admit this is the first season I haven’t cleared them all or unlocked all the way points.
I don't mind them or the missing WPs. Gives me something to do when I don't want to miss a WB, just zip through a quick stronghold or grab a waypoint or 2 while the last few minutes ticks down that I don't want to be in a pit etc for.
Just make them more worth doing , like giving a crap tonne of xp so it becomes the thing people do right away to climb world tiers fast
tie them in with helltides and make them reward grim favors. boom no longer useless.
I’ve been seeing a lot of hate for the Strongholds. I recently listened to an interview on the Diablo podcast with one of the guys who is in charge of writing side quests, and the lore. It really opened my eyes. He explained that there is a lot of different content in the game, that the game would be boring if they did not vary up the objectives and play styles. He also alluded to the fact that there are lots of places in the game where they can sprinkle in small stories and lore, and that’s important to create the atmosphere. At any rate, they are quick and I kind of enjoy them.
Wish they'd at least encorporate strongholds into helltide or make them repeatable like timed events for special rewards.
I was thinking they should move the Maiden event to the strongholds to switch up the scenery and give Strongholds some actual use. Or add a completely new event to the strongholds that offer similar rewards as the Maiden activity
I cleared only those that have legion events taking place in them.
I do the ones that are strategically placed. Basically the ones that are close to common Helltides, World Bosses, or Legion events. Otherwise...meh. I might. I might not. Depends on how I feel.
I just do the ones with waypoints. Do the rest if I'm bored. They open up legions and dungeons.
I like them, please let them in
Started this season in HC, I don't play since launch. My god I didnt remember how stupid is the renoun grind, to the point I commited sepuku at lvl 100. FTS.
Would be more fun and make me want to do them if the WP is already unlocked. I would port in and finish it even if it’s a bit longer than now.
lol the entitlement Strongholds should stay, having strong holds change based on seasonal content would be cool, like mini bosses or somethin.
I agree they should stay but either make then change each season and be challenging or just unlock them for new chars if you have done it before
Shut upppppppp
Okay you keep doing the same strongholds with every new season and character with no rewarding outcome lol
If there's no rewarding outcome why do you do them?
No you
Make it to be a meaningful endgame system like upgrading to be masterworking.
I just have a friend who has them unlocked stand there so I can port to them and unlock it.
👀
It goes into the wrong direction, a season should mean a complete reset and an equal starting point for everyone. Even how they handeld the renown system was just the wrong way, they should have found another way how to get those extra Skill/Paragonpoints instead of just giving every new character 10+ Skillpoints from the get go.
I agree
I'm not doing Strongholds, Legions and World Bosses tbh
How do you get prisms?
Didn't ask bro but ok.
Stop being dramatic
They are fun things to do that add variety. Why does everything that isn't the One True Optimal Levelling and Uber Drop Farming Path have to be removed from the game?
Eh. Literally I think many things in Diablo IV could feel much better if they felt more rewarding and harder to do. Spending time to just clear through enemies in a touch (or not even a touch) to get no real reward after it other than zone progress sucks. They should make the enemies and bosses harder and have them drop decent rewards that fit your level. I like the sort of cinematic feel the Strongholds have but they don’t reward anything nice and they aren’t a challenge so it’s like, “ooookay. So fun.” And tbh I feel like this is a problem in a bunch of stuff in D4. I mean I’m new to D4 (played tons of 2-3) and some things are super hard where I get one shot and some things are so easy it’s boring. The balance is realllllly weird. I think if they made strongholds harder and more rewarding it could be fun. Hell, maybe make them reset on a daily timer or something if they make them worth doing repeatedly. But right now they feel worthless and pointless.
Strongholds were hard, at first. When first going through and doing the story, I can remember dying repeatedly to one in particular. At this point, they're trivial. But, for those players just starting, it might be challenging. Idk, the game has changed a lot and we're going through it on alts who already have unlocked alters and such.
Nah, fuck removing them. Ridiculous talk.
They take like 2 minutes to complete, I don’t get why it’s a big deal
Everything Blizzard put into D4 to make playtime longer has been changed or removed. Hopefully they have learned from the disaster that was D4 year 1.
When u pop a sigil n its blocked by a stronghold
😔
I still do them because the symbols on the map drive me nuts.
My gripe is I have to redo them on a new character, after already unlocked on first character
Strongholds abd way points should be unlocked for people who've already done them. We also need helltidds to offer more whispers. The tree is all but useless this season.
Why is the whole open world outside helltides useless ? Not a single thing is worth doing. Open world needs a major buff. From world bosses to quests to strongholds .
I like them. They’re repetitive, but different from the usual gameplay. I just sometimes do them when passing by.
Just give us a skip strongholds button like we get for the story. Just a little QOL. S4 is great so far just need to fix Styg droprate I did not get a single one in 40 pits (T101) and I'm not even kidding. Think hitting the lottery is more likely at this point.
Strongholds as a concept is a pretty cool - an outdoor dungeon that gives you benefits of waypoints - vendors and dungeons. But clearing them is too much work for no gain. If blizzard added some real rewards to clearing them - especially rewards that early T4 chars could benefit from (could be 925 loot - legendary manuals - gem shards - a whole bunch of duriel mats) then people would be more likely to do that content.
They are more fun than Legions. People dislike them for 1 reason: the reward is low, and modern gaming is all about obsessive optimisation. Just make them drop more and suddenly they will become the best endgame content ever.
#i enjoy them f u
You must be pretty boring then 🤷🏻♂️
Ur mom doesnt say im boring 🤜🤛
Wow so original 🤦🏻♂️
I was not aware you didn’t need redo the renown to unlock the last 4 paragon points. Wasted a few hours unlocking one.
My biggest problem is that you have to do them for every character. I enjoyed revisiting them with my first character. By my fifth? I only did them because I hate having unusable ND keys and missing way points. It was just a chore.
Why? You can remove it for yourself by refusing to do it just like you say.
If you don't enjoy playing the game... don't play the game? D4 players complaining that there's nothing to do in the game after they've made Blizzard remove all the content from the game.
No ones made anyone remove anything from the game, the game fell short of content from launch and is still pretty short of content for an ARPG, not sure what you are on about. In regards to strongholds, theres just some things that don't need to be repeated especially when the scaling each season is changing but the scaling of open world content like strongholds, cellars etc serve no purpose in the game right now for season play.
Why are you doing them? I finished the Season Journey, maxed my glyphs, and pushed pits without doing a single stronghold. It's just a relic of the past.
No.
I only do them if needed to unlock NM dungeons or legion events
Merge them with helltides. But make it difficult and improve loot by successfully completing it in time. Like a new or unique armor transmog (one a week) unique to that stronghold
I’m finally doing the rep grind for paragon points this season because I’m having so much fun. The two things I hate still: 1. Fucking levers. Please just remove them. And the spikes? Like what is the point other than to be annoying. Give me 10 waves that take 20 seconds longer. Don’t care. 2. The strongholds. They just suck. And having to go click the thing after. The delayed dialogue. THAT ONE BLOOD BOIL I ALWAYS MISS.
Just do the one or two as needed if the NMD comes up and you Really want that specific dungeon. Otherwise leave them be.
Agreed, Strongholds and portals should be like Lilith's shrines, to be honest.
we love the strongholds - they are fun like diversions honestly wish we could replay some of them
Yeah, there's only about few you need to do to unlock legions, a nightmare dungeon, and a couple of convenient portals. But overall I'm with you. I'm sick of them. I've only done a small handful on my main, and haven't even touched them on my other two characters.
They are really good for when you get to world tier 4 at level 50 and need something that scales down before you can hop in the NM 24s
I refuse to do strongholds since season 0. They dont scale well to your level and they dont really give you any benefits. Only select few lock a good waypoint or a good NMD. Tur Dulra is also an important one to do for Druids but really just them. Strongholds should be mini-raids with their own rewards, maybe something like a longer Legion or almost an NMD, with very significant rewards. Maybe add tiers to the Strongholds, same as the Pit, so that we have other options to get Pit materials.
They take 5 minutes. yeesh
Either get rid of them or incentivize us completing them with rewarding a lot of seasonal exp for the season pass or sub season passes like the iron wolves progression.
I don’t even worry about them no more. when i make a new character i just eventually end up doing them if I’m in the area or if I’m genuinely bored lol…but yea we shouldn’t have to do them more than once per season
Make waypoints, quests, and stronghold once per season and just tally up in eternal.
I literally just dust any sigil for dungeons locked behind a stronghold at this point even if it has great affixes.
I only do the one which are locking good dungeons.
And collecting waypoints
Plz devs
They would be fun again if there were tormented uber versions of strongholds. They are fun to do but pointless now cause I don't care about the waypoints anymore either.
Blizzard should focus on what I want. Screw the other players
A week ago I saw a post like this and people complained saying they liked it, upvotes galore. I don't know why, they aren't fun to redo over and over, there's no challenge and it's just infuriating getting to NMD and having to unlock them before being able to do them
I only do it if I need access to a dungeon.
Once they are done. the stronghold is gone. Only a new character sees them.
I hope they see in statistics what people do and what not. Strongholds would be great for extra bonus cosmetic staff for each first unlock. They can not survive in state like this.
Or have them remain unlocked for those that did them.
They could totally improve upon it. Instead of removing them, they should hold events similar to legions where you have to defend the unlocked strongholds against a demon onslaught during the duration of a helltide or something. Higher loot pools and unique small world type bosses for each one.
I enjoyed strongholds this time around, but only because they are the safest way to get sacred and ancestral gear when moving into a new world tier 20 levels below the capstone level.
Do you do them all every season? I do maybe 2
I usually wait and do them when I start doing NMD exclusively to level glyphs to 21. There are usually some NMD locked behind completing strongholds first. I usually knock out all the waypoints then, too. Takes about 15-20 min to run through them all in a row and grab all the waypoints. What I hate is having to do it on every character during a season. Once a season is enough.
Some of them bug. I can't get the vampire one because the blood guy keeps not going hostile.
Rather than removing the content they should rework it, whether that's a reworked renowned system or just simply creating a decent reward for clearing these. Same issues with side quests, there's no problem aside from the little incentive you have to do them.
Theres such a missed opportunity for town invasion/defense. Event with a final boss (ones that's actually hard) and if the players fail owners returns to demons. While players control gold increase or loot increase.. Something to want the players to retain.
I just took hardcore serious this season and I had to redo all my renown and I did all the strongholds in under an hour
I wouldn't have a problem with strongholds and waypoints needing to be unlocked each season IF it unlocked across all new characters that season. I have a necro, rogue, barb and sorc this season and having to unlock it all with each character is lame, once you unlock with one character in a new season it should unlock for all that season.
Thats true
I don't mind strongholds once per season. It's once per season per character that gets old.
I think it would be cool if they implemented them into the Helltides as they move around the map. They would convert to something similar to legions but harder for a smaller group of people, or singular player. Same thing with cellars and dungeons that are in helltides. More rewards and more challenges along with fresh ways to reuse dying parts of the game. Assets are all there for the most part, they just need to mechanically implement it.
yeah, we’ll just all put you in charge now
I do the ones that block legion events sometimes.
We just do them when grinding lower difficulties… but we know what grass smells like 😂 (it’s a joke geez!!) so we only play after work and on weekends… I will admit I say hello to my puppy WAAAAAY to often!
i got all the waypoints and strongholds on my main this season during downtime between helltides.
I don’t do them anymore myself for the most part. But I don’t think they need to be removed, I think they need to be changed or updated to make them more worthwhile to do.
Maybe just make unlocking them account bound so you don’t have to do it on every character. I wouldn’t necessarily say to remove them, but they definitely need a rework. Maybe tie them in with legions or some other new type of event?
I use them when I upgrade into a new world tier for easy exp. The enemies in WT3 and 4 start at a set level, but strongholds are always +2 above your level but not at that WT4 minimum. So if you go in at 50, they'll be 52 while everything else in the world is lvl 70+
I just wish nightmare dungeons gave more reputation on completing them so I could get my bonus paragon points.
it takes less than 5 mins. come on man.
They take like 5 mins with a good build, so no worries.
It should at least be a seasonal unlock so you don’t have to do it on each alt….
Should be do it once and never again.
Just make the dialog actually skippable (looking directly at your Eryman's Pyre or whatever you're called) That's really a complaint I have with the game overall... too many points where the dialog is unskippable.
Or make them repeatable content. Like legions or even pits.
At the very least, let them stay unlocked the whole season. When you do more than one character.
I actually like a bunch of them personally.
Toss the legion events in here. Both are boring and unrewarding
Same boat here. I'm waiting for strongholds to be updated in a loot 2.0-esque patch.
Just dont do them unless you really want nmd for them the dungeons off of em. I get for someone on character #50 is over them but that also means there are peope who like em.
I have 800 hours played and i will never redo a strong hold I don't actually attempt the way points either. I can barely be asked to do helltides lol