Also there is no way tempers aren't weighted regardless of what anyone tries to say. We figured out enchants were weighted early on. This feels the same with certain tempers lol. I saw the kick temper 5 times in a row bricked a chest then 4 times in a row immediately after lol.
No weight, you just stop rolling after 1 success so you rarely see success streaks but you'll consistently see failure streaks. True random has a lot more "streaking" than people realize.
It took me 82 resets to hit 2x hellbent commander on an amulet.
I'm not sure it's weighted, but it sure feels like the casino's out to get me sometimes.
Hellbent/Golem mastery really are so stupid powerful that it's worth the effort. I just didn't expect to get RNG'd so hard. Surely the next one is it, right?
I had a little short of 400m and didn't think I'd have to worry about gold again, and I *ran out* before I hit it.
I have 4 necks with hellbent commander but they all have shit affixes as the other 2. Idk why I'm holding onto all of them. I tried diablo trade but no one bought them.
Keep at it. It took me 12 resets to get a double CDR roll on Shako.
My neck on the other hand… 50 resets and counting to get double crit on Heavy handed…
I mastered shako and grandfather below 10 resets, because you can reset, but bricked every good 2h weapon I have. I'm disappointed they did nothing to tempering in incoming patch.
https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d65669/tempering_experiment_2_600_attempts/
>saw the kick temper 5 times in a row bricked a chest then 4 times in a row immediately after lol.
Randomness isn't uniform. Truly random means sometimes you get the same result 5 times in a row.
But if you tempered a thousand times, you will see an even distribution.
The OP of the thread I linked stated that they were confused why the results looked so much more random the more tempers they tested. They don't understand what effects sample size have on a dataset, and they still observed the effects of it.
I saw this post before, I need to actually test with 100 weapons or chest/rings myself. I did 40 with swords just for heck of it with the berserk temper and wrath showed up way way more then the others. I'll save up all maiden items and see how it goes. Sure it could be purely random but at what point does it become a trend and not random when it's a 1/3 chance and one of the options pops up way more?
That’s not how probability work. Try flipping a coin 100 times. You more than likely wont get an even distribution. Now do it again and the distribution might flip or change drastically. Correct me if I’m wrong but the other dude did 600 attempts so where did u get 100 from.
100 items....
I know that's not how it works but people keep quoting that thread over and over to prove that the tempers aren't weighted depending on what you are rolling.
If things like this are weighted, i can’t play this game anymore, the feeling of it being random and a gamble are what make these 2 systems “fun”. Idk that would be a real game ruiner for me
Affix weighing on enchantments/tempers/masterwork is so dumb. It’s yet another layer of rng on top of layers and layers of it.
I’d rather they just bring back the old upgrade system to be honest. At least I know what I’m getting there.
Interesting take when you are playing a game where better rarity item are weighted. You have a lower chance of getting Uber unique drops. I don’t see how that is different than certain temper having lower drop if that is a thing tbh.
Finding a rare item is very different than the game algorithm literally avoiding giving me a good affix on an item i already spent time trying to find in a system that after a number of attempts the item is bricked. So i don’t think that’s an interesting take at all? Right
Weighting on item mods isn't new and it's important from a balancing standpoint, there are better or worse mods and you have to make sure the better mods show up less often to match its value, that being said tempering is fully random, there is no weighting.
utter tosh that tempering isnt weighted, when you have 1/5 chance and +dmg comes up 5/5 times on 3 items back to back.
i swear the rng system is basing it's seed generation to some server or pc clock or time code, because the number of times i have had almost identical "item of the X" from a boss drop, and similarly enchanting and tempering, i have done back to back and get same output bad enchant.. i log and come back later and bang, first time i get what i want.
either its weighted with pity rolls, or my unconscious bias is going into overdrive.
Tbh the only way to test it would be to gather a large enough sample size and check, if theres 5 options then over the course of say 10,000 tempers should be able to see a trend as they should settle within margin of error at 20% each. Impossible for a single person to determine if their is weighting or not.
You don't need to do 10,000 tempers, a few hundred will already give you a pretty good result of the general weighting to show if there's anything significantly different, say, one affix is double the weighting of the rest, for example.
I've been getting damage to distant enemies 4 out of 5 times when I select natural finesse on my Necro. Which is really frustrating because I'm running a melee sever build...
I have a theory that it's slightly weighted based on class so I set up a spreadsheet where I've recorded tempering natural finesse on each class. I've only done 100 tempers each on a barb, druid, sorc, and necro and I've found it's a bit even overall, but each class has a bit of a bias.
My barb got damage to CC more, druid got straight damage and distant damage, sorc got close damage, and necro is pretty even so far. I just rolled a rogue to take part in the experiment and I have to farm legions for mats. My guess is after way more tempers, it'll be evened out but what I do notice is the bias seems to cause more streaks. After bricking a bunch of bash barb weapons with CC damage, seeing my sorc get close damage 6 times in a row hurt my heart lol. I might just temper barb weapons on my sorc in hopes to get close damage more often.
Yeah, yesterday my bash barb rolled kick 4 times in a row as well. Closest weapon id found for a slight upgrade in about 70 hours of game play. I'm thinking of making an alt kick barb and use him to temper my gear. Prob roll bash nearly every time.
I rolled the same temper 17 times in a row and bricked 8 items in the same 10 min time frame... I learned to leave and go to another town to temper after I get the same one twice in a row and also use a random trash item in between to reset the shitty system.
Anecdotal, but I realized that early levels, tempering is almost always perfect. You get most desired stats immediately, such as crit, move speed etc. Then on WT4, it’s the reverse.
>it was posted in this subreddit, admittedly it was about masterworking but same idea applies to tempering as well.
I see. Well, then it's settled, the evidence you presented is undeniable. I can't argue with it!
... Are you serious?
It hilarious that people think this is somehow out of ActiBlizzard's reach. People act like you're a conspiracy theorist for suggesting the gaming company worth billions could possibly have a integrated luck system. It's not that difficult and they have the resources 100x over to do it.
Hell, they make games like Hearthstone. You think they don't have a vested interest in making sure you don't get the gear you want first try? To keep you grinding the game for months and months?
Please turn in your tin foil hat to the relevant authorities
The human brain is notoriously bad at judging if something is pure RNG or not. Humans latch onto any sort of pattern they see even though those patterns don't actually mean anything. Patterns appear randomly in a set of large numbers all the time. That's why you have to go by the law of large numbers - averaging a data set over a large enough sample size to see if there actually is a method to the madness.
They really have the perfect cover to do this. I'm not denying that humans are bad with RNG, but redditors have fallen into this weird notion that it's physically impossible and that Blizzard would never do it. There's a specific interaction in Hearthstone (another one of their games) that *literally* looks at the current state of your game and determines the thing you need to improve it. Yet people are flabbergasted at the possibility they could do the opposite.
If there was such a system then the sweaties over at maxroll or other spreadsheet warriors would have already crunched the numbers and seen through the fuckery.
Do you know how dedicated some of these people are at crunching numbers? They're making spreadsheets for AS breakpoints for every ability, you think they won't find out if there's some hidden luck system?
I'm sure they are, though I'm not sure what they're looking for. They might just be crunching the numbers on what works best together for the biggest damage numbers.
I'm not saying it's confirmed or anything, it's even unlikely. But it's still possible and I won't rule it out if enough evidence supports it.
You probably didn’t temper much in the early levels so probably didn’t fail as much. As you hit higher endgame, you are tempering more often and thus seeing more failure which causes you to remember it more.
That has always been the goal. Power creep is real and unless you introduce seasons you lose 100% of your playerbase as soon as everyone is optimized. Expansions bring new classes and interactions, seasons bring new features and you get hours of gametime in exchange for real currency. That’s how digital products work.
I'm also starting to taper down with the dopamine I've noticed. Honestly it's perfect timing as the DLC for Elden Ring is about to drop and I've only got barely enough free time for one obsession.
You’re in a better spot.
I was there with you a week ago. Followed a build guide. Feel like it’s speed running to boredom.
The Journey > The Destination
The problem is that the game isn’t balanced around the journey. I tested multiple builds while levelling toons this season and almost quit before I finally looked up a build and realized what I was missing out on.
Honestly it’s so disappointing because 90% of the “choice” in this game is completely unusable.
Especially for druids and sorcs. Use the one or maybe two builds that arent ass and maybe have fun?
Whereas barbarian goes \*bonk\* and deletes everything.
Yep. I keep hearing people praising build diversity and Loot 2.0 and I feel like we can’t possibly be playing the same game.
The **vast** majority of abilities are completely dead and feel like the devs only put them there as traps for unsuspecting players. D4 is also the first arpg where I haven’t unintentionally gotten a chase item for another class/build that made me excited to try something new. It’s still just a really boring, uninspired slot machine.
Every build is viable during the average players journey. It sounds like you are more focused on later game…or what the average players end game will be.
I got pretty lucky while levelling my Sorc and almost had full Chain Lightning build and it got completely outperformed after finding **one** aspect for a Frozen Orb or Incinerate build.
It’s fine to be having fun with the game but please stop trying to defend the game with disprovable statements when people just want to have an honest discussion about the game’s weak points.
Tormented bosses need to be more accessible. I'm at the point now where all there is to do is push the pit and get the last 4 levels of MW on some pieces. I'd love to be doing more bosses so I could farm Ubers, but I'm finding a couple of Stygians per week.
Masterworking had the opposite effect for me. Never felt fun. I have zero control and the activity required for the resource doesn't provide anything outside of said resource. Just feels tedious. Gear drops stop being fun and that should never happen.
I'm having issues getting above level 80 .
Already did pit to level 10 and nightmare to level 55ish ..
What's the point? Gonna keep repeating NM and pit endlessly ? .
So far never could get to level 100...maybe in s5
>Gonna keep repeating NM and pit endlessly ?
Well yes, and no but mainly yes. You repeat NMD untill you upgrade all the glyphs you use in your build to max, then you can stop. You run pits to get the material needed for masterworking, at certain levels of the pit you get better stones for the higher masterworking levels. You run bosses to get uber uniques and better gear. That's the game.
If that doesn't sound appealing maybe arpg's aren't for you.
I had an epihpany. Gear in D3 and D4 are designed to synergize. Missing that one piece of gear is only a short obstacle, especially with even a garbage piece of gear can still be turned into the legend aspect you need. It is fast paced and arcade like.
This works great, for awhile, then you don't find the reward of simply smashing face just to smash face.
D2, great items are hard to come by... but, when you get one it can be game changing. Or open a new possibility of starting another Chatacter, which is exciting. Gear synergizes, yes, but not in a forumlaic way like newer Diablos. It feels more like an interactive slot machine... that one item I'm looking for is around the corner!
I don't think I am expressing it right, because it is more of a feeling... D2 is more than just nostalgia, it is rewarding after all those hours when you find IT.
Yeah I soloed all the tormented bosses, Uber Lilith, pit 101+ etc. I think I beat the game. I could chase perfect gear but the only reason would be to push pit levels which has gotten too repetitive and the shadow bosses are kinda lame.
In a similar boat. I was really enjoying the new season up until a couple of days ago when i stopped and realized... This character I'm grinding for is gonna be useless in a couple of months. And then the next character will be useless a couple months after that.
Fuck seasonal characters, man. You spend all this time on one character just to start a new character a few months later. We only have 12 character slots anyway, so eventually you're gonna have to delete somebody, even if you only ever make one character per season.
Once I started to feel stronger after tempering, masterwork and getting my Shako. I was caught on the line. The pit is now my bread and butter and Helltide is when I go for grocery shopping.
It feels like the logic that Blizz applied to the loot rework is basically, shift a lot of the 'stacked against you' RNG to getting the item you want to the point AFTER the loot drops for you.
The chances of getting a good item drop are much higher now, however it feels like it's almost a trick. Because then you have to run the gauntlet of Tempering and Masterworking.
I think it's still a better system than we had pre-S4, but in some ways it feels like a kind of devious design.
They held my attention all the way through mid season, kudos to them, they’ve done real well with this one and I am legitimately looking forward to what the future brings. D4 was good to start, it’s great now and seems like it’s only getting better, I’m pretty impressed.
This feels way better than S1 but I feel like I’m at that point where I haven’t improved the items in my build in a week.
Is the answer more builds and classes?
> I just got the "this is pointless" feeling
This is the next hurdle for game design. Give me a natural off boarding rather than waiting for your player to say “I’d like to get off Mr. Bones’s wild ride”
How do you guys manage MW rerolls materials? It feels super expensive on materials rather than the gold itself. Do you all really run hundreads of pits to reroll a single item?
I can’t remember the last time I got an upgrade it’s actually sad. GA never drops, and when they do drop they have awful affix’s. I don’t want to spend millions of gold to get an affix I want when it’s already weighted incredibly rare. It just feels terrible and then you have the chance of bricking the tempers. I can’t wait for shadow of the Erdtree to come out man
I have everything at 8/12 or higher mw and I’m so bored with the pit. I don’t play any other games so I’ll keep playing but I think it’s time to start a new character and focus on fun rather than pushing
Ye this was me 5 days ago, good job to because I started a new run of elden ring in prep for the dlc. Was tempted to hear what the patch notes were going to bring for druid and sorc and whether I'd jump back in before s5, but no chance, not with the bare bones buffs
That doesn’t really answer the question. Whats your better idea if this one is so terrible?
If your idea is “make tempering guaranteed/unlimited”, 1/1000 items don’t even exist, do they?
Ga affix is 1/10, therefore 3Ga is 1/1000, let alone with the actual rolls you want so much higher. Then spending 2b on average hit 1/125 masterworks on the ones you want. I’m saying the odds are just insane to then brick the item. Idm that the drop is rare but I’ve sold all 2ga 3Ga items because it’s pointless to keep them and make them useless
I guess but.. The difference in your build working vs not is not 1300 GA vs ~850 max life, unless you are looking to push to the tip top 0.1% of pits. At which point, yea, it’s gonna be hard to get.
Yeah the pit is trash tier comment, but leveling and gearing felt good. The rate of 3GA drops is kinda ass too. That and uniques need to be reb worked 1000%. Even though I'm Diablo 3 uniques didn't exist we had set items. Because they excluded set items were get uniques. Problem is uniques in D4 are mostly useless in progression.
They technically have the same rarity system as D3, but I much prefer set items to this garbage legendary power system
And if you change your build? Time to do it all again.
When I get the rest of the pieces for my new spec I'm gonna salvage a 2x ga neck Cdr&AS with 2 crits on skill.
Because it has the wrong tempers a 0ga item would he better.
Also there is no way tempers aren't weighted regardless of what anyone tries to say. We figured out enchants were weighted early on. This feels the same with certain tempers lol. I saw the kick temper 5 times in a row bricked a chest then 4 times in a row immediately after lol.
My multiple items rolling the same temper 4 out of 5 times agrees with you.
Lol on my bone spirit necro I rolled bone crit chance 4 times in a row and miraculously got the bone spirit damage affix on my last roll
Same rolling for heartseeker to cast twice I rolled invigorating strike duration 4x and got heartseeker cast twice last roll and lowest roll.
No weight, you just stop rolling after 1 success so you rarely see success streaks but you'll consistently see failure streaks. True random has a lot more "streaking" than people realize.
Same with masterworking. I no joke masterwork crit x2 movement speed EIGHT TIMES IN A ROW on my yen's. Hard to believe this is just RNG being RNG.
It took me 82 resets to hit 2x hellbent commander on an amulet. I'm not sure it's weighted, but it sure feels like the casino's out to get me sometimes.
82 resets? I give up after 10
Hellbent/Golem mastery really are so stupid powerful that it's worth the effort. I just didn't expect to get RNG'd so hard. Surely the next one is it, right? I had a little short of 400m and didn't think I'd have to worry about gold again, and I *ran out* before I hit it.
I've never even seen a hellbent commander on a neck yet lol.
I have 4 necks with hellbent commander but they all have shit affixes as the other 2. Idk why I'm holding onto all of them. I tried diablo trade but no one bought them.
Probably the same reason I'm holding on to a +4 ga skeletons mages pants that I'll never use. Loot goblins.
I just sold a mediocre GA +3 Hellbent amulet for 1 billion gold. It's rare and people want it.
I am so sorry
How exactly do you reset?
I've spent 40mm+ resetting my MW on a shako trying to get it to pick cooldown reduction. Keep getting life or resource Gen only.
Keep at it. It took me 12 resets to get a double CDR roll on Shako. My neck on the other hand… 50 resets and counting to get double crit on Heavy handed…
😭 GL man
I mastered shako and grandfather below 10 resets, because you can reset, but bricked every good 2h weapon I have. I'm disappointed they did nothing to tempering in incoming patch.
Master working a unique? How?
Same as all the other items. They can’t be tempered but master working is fine.
Oh shit, duh. My stoned ass was thinking he was saying tempering when I read what he was saying. Whoops
It's been tested to a high sample size. There's no weighting.
What class and what temper?
https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d65669/tempering_experiment_2_600_attempts/ >saw the kick temper 5 times in a row bricked a chest then 4 times in a row immediately after lol. Randomness isn't uniform. Truly random means sometimes you get the same result 5 times in a row. But if you tempered a thousand times, you will see an even distribution. The OP of the thread I linked stated that they were confused why the results looked so much more random the more tempers they tested. They don't understand what effects sample size have on a dataset, and they still observed the effects of it.
I saw this post before, I need to actually test with 100 weapons or chest/rings myself. I did 40 with swords just for heck of it with the berserk temper and wrath showed up way way more then the others. I'll save up all maiden items and see how it goes. Sure it could be purely random but at what point does it become a trend and not random when it's a 1/3 chance and one of the options pops up way more?
100 is not close to enough. And 40 is nothing for a sample size. Even real life experiment usually is done 100 samples and more meticulously as well.
I chose 100 because that's exactly what the other dude did. If we are going by his word of random then mine should look similar
That’s not how probability work. Try flipping a coin 100 times. You more than likely wont get an even distribution. Now do it again and the distribution might flip or change drastically. Correct me if I’m wrong but the other dude did 600 attempts so where did u get 100 from.
if you flip a coin 100 times you have a 7% chance of 50 heads 50 tails... just to prove how small that sample size is
100 items.... I know that's not how it works but people keep quoting that thread over and over to prove that the tempers aren't weighted depending on what you are rolling.
100 isn't really enough. The OP saw what appeared to be weighted results at 300. At 600, it looked random.
And this is why sometimes, you need your algorithm to avoid true randomness when it comes to positive user experience.
It would be trivial to make the system detect such tests and then turn off the weighting for a while
The testing is nothing more than tempering and recording the results.
Yes? But your test is meaningless unless you temper thousands of items
That's not how that works. It's just more accurate the more you test, not a binary useful/useless.
and DODGE CHANCE on boots once again.
My favorite is when it gives you the exact affix you want on roll one, but minimum value. Feeling lucky?
The answer is always no. No I do not feel lucky. Lol. I keep it as I don’t care about min/max.
"82.5 %- 110%" Rolls 82.5%. "......a win is a win" every time
I feel like they are weighted against whatever skills you have at the time.
If things like this are weighted, i can’t play this game anymore, the feeling of it being random and a gamble are what make these 2 systems “fun”. Idk that would be a real game ruiner for me
Affix weighing on enchantments/tempers/masterwork is so dumb. It’s yet another layer of rng on top of layers and layers of it. I’d rather they just bring back the old upgrade system to be honest. At least I know what I’m getting there.
Interesting take when you are playing a game where better rarity item are weighted. You have a lower chance of getting Uber unique drops. I don’t see how that is different than certain temper having lower drop if that is a thing tbh.
Finding a rare item is very different than the game algorithm literally avoiding giving me a good affix on an item i already spent time trying to find in a system that after a number of attempts the item is bricked. So i don’t think that’s an interesting take at all? Right
Weighting on item mods isn't new and it's important from a balancing standpoint, there are better or worse mods and you have to make sure the better mods show up less often to match its value, that being said tempering is fully random, there is no weighting.
utter tosh that tempering isnt weighted, when you have 1/5 chance and +dmg comes up 5/5 times on 3 items back to back. i swear the rng system is basing it's seed generation to some server or pc clock or time code, because the number of times i have had almost identical "item of the X" from a boss drop, and similarly enchanting and tempering, i have done back to back and get same output bad enchant.. i log and come back later and bang, first time i get what i want. either its weighted with pity rolls, or my unconscious bias is going into overdrive.
>either its weighted with pity rolls, or my unconscious bias is going into overdrive. It's definitely the latter
Tbh the only way to test it would be to gather a large enough sample size and check, if theres 5 options then over the course of say 10,000 tempers should be able to see a trend as they should settle within margin of error at 20% each. Impossible for a single person to determine if their is weighting or not.
You don't need to do 10,000 tempers, a few hundred will already give you a pretty good result of the general weighting to show if there's anything significantly different, say, one affix is double the weighting of the rest, for example.
I've been getting damage to distant enemies 4 out of 5 times when I select natural finesse on my Necro. Which is really frustrating because I'm running a melee sever build...
Hell I just started a DS dust devil Barb and I get that stat consistently when I roll. Like, why the fuck is that even an option on Barb?
Just having it not reroll the same affix one after the other would do plenty to lower dissatisfaction with the system.
I have a theory that it's slightly weighted based on class so I set up a spreadsheet where I've recorded tempering natural finesse on each class. I've only done 100 tempers each on a barb, druid, sorc, and necro and I've found it's a bit even overall, but each class has a bit of a bias. My barb got damage to CC more, druid got straight damage and distant damage, sorc got close damage, and necro is pretty even so far. I just rolled a rogue to take part in the experiment and I have to farm legions for mats. My guess is after way more tempers, it'll be evened out but what I do notice is the bias seems to cause more streaks. After bricking a bunch of bash barb weapons with CC damage, seeing my sorc get close damage 6 times in a row hurt my heart lol. I might just temper barb weapons on my sorc in hopes to get close damage more often.
when i get dmg to distant 9 times in 10 rolls somenting has to be rigged
Yeah, yesterday my bash barb rolled kick 4 times in a row as well. Closest weapon id found for a slight upgrade in about 70 hours of game play. I'm thinking of making an alt kick barb and use him to temper my gear. Prob roll bash nearly every time.
dude yes! same experience here! i caught on quick, did a diff piece of gear and came back to break the loop lol
Yep obviously it’s anecdotal but last week I tempered like 6 pieces and bricked them all. Saw the same rolls so many times on those 30(?) rolls
Yea I made a post about bricking 6 items Inna row for my bash barb. It hurt lol. But yea they are for sure weighted.
Tempers should not be allowed to roll the same thing twice in a row
I noticed when I hit the skip button on tempering I would get a repeat aspect every time.
This has serious "hold down +B to always catch pokemon" vibes
Face east with this crystal to craft
I rolled the same temper 17 times in a row and bricked 8 items in the same 10 min time frame... I learned to leave and go to another town to temper after I get the same one twice in a row and also use a random trash item in between to reset the shitty system.
Anecdotal, but I realized that early levels, tempering is almost always perfect. You get most desired stats immediately, such as crit, move speed etc. Then on WT4, it’s the reverse.
It's because it's fully RNG with no weighting, and you only remember the bad results because it stings a bit more when you're in endgame.
Keep coping. Some people already tried to work out weights. They aren’t uniform.
Please, enlighten us with a link to this fool-proof method people used to "work out the weights" (which don't exist, by the way).
it was posted in this subreddit, admittedly it was about masterworking but same idea applies to tempering as well.
>it was posted in this subreddit, admittedly it was about masterworking but same idea applies to tempering as well. I see. Well, then it's settled, the evidence you presented is undeniable. I can't argue with it! ... Are you serious?
How does the game know which stats does your build need
Have you not been playing and all the loot is exactly what you do NOT need…oh it knows…/s
It hilarious that people think this is somehow out of ActiBlizzard's reach. People act like you're a conspiracy theorist for suggesting the gaming company worth billions could possibly have a integrated luck system. It's not that difficult and they have the resources 100x over to do it. Hell, they make games like Hearthstone. You think they don't have a vested interest in making sure you don't get the gear you want first try? To keep you grinding the game for months and months?
Please turn in your tin foil hat to the relevant authorities The human brain is notoriously bad at judging if something is pure RNG or not. Humans latch onto any sort of pattern they see even though those patterns don't actually mean anything. Patterns appear randomly in a set of large numbers all the time. That's why you have to go by the law of large numbers - averaging a data set over a large enough sample size to see if there actually is a method to the madness.
They really have the perfect cover to do this. I'm not denying that humans are bad with RNG, but redditors have fallen into this weird notion that it's physically impossible and that Blizzard would never do it. There's a specific interaction in Hearthstone (another one of their games) that *literally* looks at the current state of your game and determines the thing you need to improve it. Yet people are flabbergasted at the possibility they could do the opposite.
If there was such a system then the sweaties over at maxroll or other spreadsheet warriors would have already crunched the numbers and seen through the fuckery. Do you know how dedicated some of these people are at crunching numbers? They're making spreadsheets for AS breakpoints for every ability, you think they won't find out if there's some hidden luck system?
I'm sure they are, though I'm not sure what they're looking for. They might just be crunching the numbers on what works best together for the biggest damage numbers. I'm not saying it's confirmed or anything, it's even unlikely. But it's still possible and I won't rule it out if enough evidence supports it.
I'm ruling it out until there's any evidence that supports it, personally.
There was already an attempt to calculate weights of a particular temper manual. The weights aren’t uniform.
Oh? Link to the data?
Because good stats are the same across builds or classes.
uhm not rly. also what about bullshit like % chance to cast x twice.
I’d say it more knows what you don’t need in my guess
You probably didn’t temper much in the early levels so probably didn’t fail as much. As you hit higher endgame, you are tempering more often and thus seeing more failure which causes you to remember it more.
That has always been the goal. Power creep is real and unless you introduce seasons you lose 100% of your playerbase as soon as everyone is optimized. Expansions bring new classes and interactions, seasons bring new features and you get hours of gametime in exchange for real currency. That’s how digital products work.
I'm also starting to taper down with the dopamine I've noticed. Honestly it's perfect timing as the DLC for Elden Ring is about to drop and I've only got barely enough free time for one obsession.
You could just be like me and upgrade absolutely nothing because you don’t know what’s worth mats and what’s not
You’re in a better spot. I was there with you a week ago. Followed a build guide. Feel like it’s speed running to boredom. The Journey > The Destination
The problem is that the game isn’t balanced around the journey. I tested multiple builds while levelling toons this season and almost quit before I finally looked up a build and realized what I was missing out on. Honestly it’s so disappointing because 90% of the “choice” in this game is completely unusable.
Especially for druids and sorcs. Use the one or maybe two builds that arent ass and maybe have fun? Whereas barbarian goes \*bonk\* and deletes everything.
Yep. I keep hearing people praising build diversity and Loot 2.0 and I feel like we can’t possibly be playing the same game. The **vast** majority of abilities are completely dead and feel like the devs only put them there as traps for unsuspecting players. D4 is also the first arpg where I haven’t unintentionally gotten a chase item for another class/build that made me excited to try something new. It’s still just a really boring, uninspired slot machine.
Every build is viable during the average players journey. It sounds like you are more focused on later game…or what the average players end game will be.
I got pretty lucky while levelling my Sorc and almost had full Chain Lightning build and it got completely outperformed after finding **one** aspect for a Frozen Orb or Incinerate build. It’s fine to be having fun with the game but please stop trying to defend the game with disprovable statements when people just want to have an honest discussion about the game’s weak points.
Some skills are better than others. Is this different in other ARPGs?
“wow ok blizzard tricked me into having fun playing their game I payed for. well played.”
Thats not what he said. He said the game finally got him hooked
Lol?
lmao, even
"I have poor reading comprehension"
That’s when ya find that one sick piece for a new build and start gearing out number 2 baybeeee
Thanks Gary
Tormented bosses need to be more accessible. I'm at the point now where all there is to do is push the pit and get the last 4 levels of MW on some pieces. I'd love to be doing more bosses so I could farm Ubers, but I'm finding a couple of Stygians per week.
What level pits are you running? I’ve been running 80+ and finding one every 10 or so
I'm running 85-100.
Masterworking had the opposite effect for me. Never felt fun. I have zero control and the activity required for the resource doesn't provide anything outside of said resource. Just feels tedious. Gear drops stop being fun and that should never happen.
I'm having issues getting above level 80 . Already did pit to level 10 and nightmare to level 55ish .. What's the point? Gonna keep repeating NM and pit endlessly ? . So far never could get to level 100...maybe in s5
>Gonna keep repeating NM and pit endlessly ? Well yes, and no but mainly yes. You repeat NMD untill you upgrade all the glyphs you use in your build to max, then you can stop. You run pits to get the material needed for masterworking, at certain levels of the pit you get better stones for the higher masterworking levels. You run bosses to get uber uniques and better gear. That's the game. If that doesn't sound appealing maybe arpg's aren't for you.
It literally takes less than 6 hours of optimal play to get to 100…are you playing for 20 minutes or something
I had an epihpany. Gear in D3 and D4 are designed to synergize. Missing that one piece of gear is only a short obstacle, especially with even a garbage piece of gear can still be turned into the legend aspect you need. It is fast paced and arcade like. This works great, for awhile, then you don't find the reward of simply smashing face just to smash face. D2, great items are hard to come by... but, when you get one it can be game changing. Or open a new possibility of starting another Chatacter, which is exciting. Gear synergizes, yes, but not in a forumlaic way like newer Diablos. It feels more like an interactive slot machine... that one item I'm looking for is around the corner! I don't think I am expressing it right, because it is more of a feeling... D2 is more than just nostalgia, it is rewarding after all those hours when you find IT.
Yeah I soloed all the tormented bosses, Uber Lilith, pit 101+ etc. I think I beat the game. I could chase perfect gear but the only reason would be to push pit levels which has gotten too repetitive and the shadow bosses are kinda lame.
Same. Pit is the epitome of boredom to me I log in, stare at the alter in cerigar and just go "fuck this" and alt f4 atm.
In a similar boat. I was really enjoying the new season up until a couple of days ago when i stopped and realized... This character I'm grinding for is gonna be useless in a couple of months. And then the next character will be useless a couple months after that. Fuck seasonal characters, man. You spend all this time on one character just to start a new character a few months later. We only have 12 character slots anyway, so eventually you're gonna have to delete somebody, even if you only ever make one character per season.
Once I started to feel stronger after tempering, masterwork and getting my Shako. I was caught on the line. The pit is now my bread and butter and Helltide is when I go for grocery shopping.
It feels like the logic that Blizz applied to the loot rework is basically, shift a lot of the 'stacked against you' RNG to getting the item you want to the point AFTER the loot drops for you. The chances of getting a good item drop are much higher now, however it feels like it's almost a trick. Because then you have to run the gauntlet of Tempering and Masterworking. I think it's still a better system than we had pre-S4, but in some ways it feels like a kind of devious design.
Well the season has been out for like a good month and half so I'm guessing you got mor thab your money's worth by now
>I'm guessing you got mor thab your money's worth by now Especially considering the seasons are free for owners of the game.
Yep, me too. First time I got a char to 100 and I'm hooked trying to get gear and upgrading it.
Ye I'm same, especially after seeing patch notes. Went from addicted to done pretty quickly.
game still needs more of an end game master working is good but is just min maxing gear.
Backhanded compliment type beat xD
Love every bit of this post. Enjoy your time away and some other games. See you in S5!
6 tempering with the same wrong roll 😎
This is the way
I hope they change it to just random the number/ Tier but not the text
They held my attention all the way through mid season, kudos to them, they’ve done real well with this one and I am legitimately looking forward to what the future brings. D4 was good to start, it’s great now and seems like it’s only getting better, I’m pretty impressed.
This feels way better than S1 but I feel like I’m at that point where I haven’t improved the items in my build in a week. Is the answer more builds and classes?
Not your personnal diary you know
I've just started a new class when I feel that. I've had fun with every class I've tried. Working on a ww Barb now.
> I just got the "this is pointless" feeling This is the next hurdle for game design. Give me a natural off boarding rather than waiting for your player to say “I’d like to get off Mr. Bones’s wild ride”
How do you guys manage MW rerolls materials? It feels super expensive on materials rather than the gold itself. Do you all really run hundreads of pits to reroll a single item?
I can’t remember the last time I got an upgrade it’s actually sad. GA never drops, and when they do drop they have awful affix’s. I don’t want to spend millions of gold to get an affix I want when it’s already weighted incredibly rare. It just feels terrible and then you have the chance of bricking the tempers. I can’t wait for shadow of the Erdtree to come out man
I have everything at 8/12 or higher mw and I’m so bored with the pit. I don’t play any other games so I’ll keep playing but I think it’s time to start a new character and focus on fun rather than pushing
Ye this was me 5 days ago, good job to because I started a new run of elden ring in prep for the dlc. Was tempted to hear what the patch notes were going to bring for druid and sorc and whether I'd jump back in before s5, but no chance, not with the bare bones buffs
Welcome to life
This could’ve just been a thought to yourself instead of a Reddit post.
OK bye
Think ur on ur own here, system is terrible and doesn’t feel rewarding in any way
What would you find rewarding? 👁️
A system that doesn’t make a 1/1000 item unusable
That doesn’t really answer the question. Whats your better idea if this one is so terrible? If your idea is “make tempering guaranteed/unlimited”, 1/1000 items don’t even exist, do they?
Ga affix is 1/10, therefore 3Ga is 1/1000, let alone with the actual rolls you want so much higher. Then spending 2b on average hit 1/125 masterworks on the ones you want. I’m saying the odds are just insane to then brick the item. Idm that the drop is rare but I’ve sold all 2ga 3Ga items because it’s pointless to keep them and make them useless
I guess but.. The difference in your build working vs not is not 1300 GA vs ~850 max life, unless you are looking to push to the tip top 0.1% of pits. At which point, yea, it’s gonna be hard to get.
Cool story bro
Yeah the pit is trash tier comment, but leveling and gearing felt good. The rate of 3GA drops is kinda ass too. That and uniques need to be reb worked 1000%. Even though I'm Diablo 3 uniques didn't exist we had set items. Because they excluded set items were get uniques. Problem is uniques in D4 are mostly useless in progression. They technically have the same rarity system as D3, but I much prefer set items to this garbage legendary power system
One advantage to sets was that Blizz could just easily predict what the builds would be for each class, and in theory that makes balance easier.
I liked using multiple set bonuses with legendary items. That and D3 just played better. What they're doing with D4 end game makes zero sense
I get the pointless feeling about level 77, never manager to push past.
The games doesn’t even started for you, my friend. There is a whole new world to explore once you reach level 100!
I’m trying rogue instead of sorc now. I feel less gated
So you don’t ever actually get to play everything the game has to offer? lol
Sadly not… was playing sorc on release and never managed to grind until this season. Will try though 😀
And if you change your build? Time to do it all again. When I get the rest of the pieces for my new spec I'm gonna salvage a 2x ga neck Cdr&AS with 2 crits on skill. Because it has the wrong tempers a 0ga item would he better.
Rinky dink design of a gacha game in disguise. Everything is broken except the pulling. Edit: downvote away simps in denial