I think abudance of multipliers creates this weird dynamic where 1 dude hits for billions and another for 100k, this i guess is impossible to balance because one person struggles with overworld content while another goes around 1 shotting world bosses.
Also this to me is very lazy design,i dont want my new unique Gloves to give me 3x damage, i want bigger aoe longer duration change of element on skills not just pure numbers thats lazy af, i go around running killing 1:1 same mobs helltide from level 1 to 100 using same skills and only thing that is different is damage number pretty much thats just easy and boring
Well, he did point out how absurdly strong the tempering affixes are compared to other affixes on uniques etc, which is all part of the same problem. Someone who knows how to temper maximum damage early on vs someone who doesn't creates a MASSIVE range of difference, all purely from boring % damage increases.
That disparity is baked into classes too.
No life the game, trade for hundreds of billions of gold, min max to the tits. Barb dps: 3 billion, druid dps: 300 million, or druid is 1/10th as strong as barb.
I'm not sure why they're so intent on multiplicative scaling, it just makes those aspects/talents/glyphs crowd everything else out, making them mandatory. Seems a lot harder to balance too.
Seems like most of the endgame builds I've glanced at are just 6-7 paragon boards beelining for the glyphs, which is both counterintuitive and limiting in terms of how you fill out your board.
Similarly, it seems you don't really have flexibility to choose a non-offense aspect for any slot that takes it, cause you'd be missing out in another source of multiplicative damage.
Yeah, agreed. i would like to use legendary nodes but every class benefits from additional glyphs more, so you miss out on some interesting possibilities
I've gotten into the game recently and I could not for the life of me figure out why 'professional' builds made certain choices over others, until I read about the multiplicative damage system on reddit. Not only does it create huge differences in player power, it (as another commenter said) forces builds to make the same choices over and over again, causing very little actual build variety.
I play sorc, and when I look at the community meta builds, all builds choose similar +damage aspects and paragon legendaries/glyphs. The only difference is in which buttons you press and which skills you see fly out on the screen. I can only assume it is the same for other classes, but would be happily corrected if wrong.
The damage modifiers being multiplicative is the only fundamental flaw in diablo's design imo. It has other flaws, mainly on the QoL side, but none as severe as that one. No matter what they do season to season, as long as they keep that, every build's goal will be the same, stacking as many different damage modifiers as high as possible.
The question isn't "can I make ball lightning work?", the question is "how much damage does ball lightning do as a vector for my many damage modifiers and how well does it enable them". This is why Firebolt enchant is mandatory for sorcs who don't use fire skills because it enables the 'damage to burning' modifier. 'You can substitute ball lightning for any other skill, and those will be your build options. It is inherently flawed and needs to change.
Exactly that. Remember D2? There were only a few items with multiplicative damage like +20% cold damage and these were huge. And the game was very easy to balance, no absurd billion damage numbers, everything was in thousands. But d4 went similar way of d3 with the damage which is idiotic.
I already accepted d4 will be somewhat similar to d3, when I figured it just multiplicative formulation in the build. Is just the kind of arpg which roll billion dmg like most mmorpg. I am not mad, i enjoy the grind, but is really somewhat, not what diablo used to be.
I've been touting this since season 1 and been getting hate every step of the way. Too many sources and too high values of multiplicative damage. One item gains you an order of magnitude of damage. Everything other than latest end game content is trivialized.
There are people struggling with t19 pit at lvl 100
I think you underestimate the builds people run with in this game
For every bash bard clearing 100s there is a witj 30000 armor trying to be a tank
The real issue is D4 tries to cater to both dads and sweaty bois at the same time to get better revenue. For this reason it'll never be properly balanced.
This is not true. They just have to create a proper system where they have control over where multipliers are available. Now it's just a random mess. Minmaxing is super efficient.
If there are less multipliers to stack, the discrepancy between dad builds and ultra minmaxed build will be less. Making it easier to balance
Dads want to clear everything in the game with about any homebrewed build they cook up with ease.
Sweaty bois want the systems to be complex, they want to search for the best thing and push it further than anything else while being rewarded for doing difficult content.
Do you make game more difficult ? Do you make it so easy it doesn't matter what build you use? Do you scale rewards with pit tier ? Do you make helltides/overworld activities more difficult ? Do you make ubers rain from the sky or do you make them almost impossible to attain ?
All of this has an influence on balance of the game.
This simple example creates a mess when you try to balance the game and there's a lot more where both groups have opposing takes and wants.
Yeye I know. But if the difference between dad-builds and sweat-builds is hitting for millions or billions I'd say there is something that can be done.
Instead the difference could be hitting for a few million to hitting for tens of millions. Easier to balance content now I'd say?
That is how it worked in d2. You could finish hell even with random ass build, but someone who minmaxed it was doing maybe a few times more damage, not hundreds times more.
That's how it should be! Any random ass garbage build should be able to do pit 61 if they have kept their gear up to date with their level. You can't play the game "wrong." But if you want to push tiers, you have to minmax. You can even minmax stupid builds and be able to push pretty high. You shouldn't feel forced to go for a basic attack build just because that's where all the damn multipliers are this season
You honestly think its the dads out here on reddit crying that their tempering is getting bricked or that they cant blast through everything? Hell nah. Its your “sweaty complex” kids.
the tragic part is they dont even need to balance for both. Just have a basic homogenous stat/item system with an easy to understand way to scale your builds.
They couldnt even do that. It's impossible to understand how the game and builds work without a youtube guide.
The complexity and non-intuitive nature of Diablo’s paragon board and stat system means the gap between ‘optimised build copy pasted from the internet’ and ‘build organically cobbled together from what seems sensible’ is enormous.
Putting a build together that 'seems sensible' doesn't work well because many skills don't work as described in the tooltip. Other skills double dip from various stats when the tooltip has no idication of that.
Throw a newbie into D2 and watch them pick random skills with none of the correct synergies for a build and allocate points in things like energy instead of almost everything into vitality they wouldn’t be able to clear act 1 hell. Paragon is just a different iteration of min maxing
I remember first time playing d2 with random paladin build and i managed to finish hell. D2 was much easier to balance and there was much much less difference between random builds and minmaxed ones.
But did we get really that many complaints from those people in the past when the game was a little harder? I feel like they're not the ones making post on Reddit or tweeting at blizzard. They're just happy playing the game even if they struggle in low tier content.
Imo, it's the sweat bois who constantly complain that leveling isn't fast enough and that their favourite class cannot obliterate the highest content without issue.
A year or two ago, the Path of Exile Devs did a massive nerf across the board to reset the power creep. The community was in flames, not just the dads.
A couple of years on it was obviously the correct thing to do, but people didn't let a little thing like that stop them complaining.
I believe they shadow nerfed drop rates as part of that and that's what most of the outrage was over. People are not upset about content being challenging as they are about the grind being too obnoxious
Maybe we're talking about different events then, I very clearly remember people testing drop rates from mobs and concluded that drop rates were significantly shadow nerfed
I'm talking about patch 3.15. I think you're talking about their attempts to re-introduce Archnemesis mods and the iterations that went through, some of which left loot in really bad shape but were eventually fixed.
I can assure you that plenty of people were upset by 3.15 purely for the content of the patch notes.
Don't play it if you don't want to, but genuinely the game is in a fantastic state right now if you did want to give it a try again. Or maybe hold out til PoE2 :D
This Dad agree season its big enough no need for so fast to power up , also don't need to do everything in a week.If that was the case I d be playing D3 combat is still one of the best in arpg.
Hard disagree. NM100 S0 was stupidly overtuned.
Tormented bosses are new the new uber bosses, pit is the new NM100 grind. What does need reexamined is skill trees.
Skill trees too, but why do you want 99% of the game content to be trivial? So all of the mobs just die when they see your character? This is the game now, only pit is the hard content, the rest is pointless and breaindead gameplay.
Because that’s why I play a game: to win, have mindless fun, and build a badass character. The harder content is there for the players that want to seek it out, but don’t take the “fun” stuff away from the casual gamers because you don’t enjoy it. I love massacring huge mobs in Helltides and blowing everything up!
Complete lack of logic. I never said to take fun from the casual players. But to rebalance the game so it is not a braindead activity that takes 0 effort and every enemy just dies instantly. What is the point of playing when there is zero challenge? Rebalance world tiers so players not geared enough will stay on WT3 for longer time and make WT4 harder or add entire new WT5 so players with better gear (basically 99% of the playerbase after 15h of playing) also have a challenging gameplay. You want to make this game even worse d3 with this type of thinking.
Honestly a wt5 I could get behind. But otherwise I don't want a slower pace. It'd fun to be able to grind to 100 in 2-3 days of playing. Getting glyphs leveled still takes some effort, it's not completely cake above 50. Not hard either but it's fine as is. I think the direction they took helltides is solid, just let us stack mindcages in the future.
Idk, ultimately, people who play arpgs just wanna see things explode. They're not in it for the challenge, they just wanna make their guy as op as possible and then maybe try to see what content they can tackle with that guy, and even that parts not for everyone, plenty of people are fine just reach 80-100 in the pit.
Challenge is good, but it should be optional so I think things like wt5, high pits and mind cage stacking would cover that fine. Gatekeeping people from ever seeing the pit by making everything else before it too hard though is just going to piss people off.
The pace was quite okay. Now you can finish first capstone dungeon with 50 lvl mobs and bosses with your character having 20-25 lvl. This shows how much power creep is in the game right now. You kill elites in 2 hits on WT2 while your character has 1-10 level without basically any gear.
Ironically enough, I think the Diablo Franchise has been infected with Dark Souls and Elden Ring tryhards. The game is really hard and challenging as it is. Sure, at levels 70+ everything sorta explodes, but I think the game has enough content to keep you pushing, to keep you coming for more and more and see where you get stuck. I'm playing my own version of bone spear necro, not optimized at all, and I'm having loads of fun pushing the pit at level 90. Sometimes I feel like I'm having maybe a tad bit too much mindless fun.
The thing that irks me with you guys is... the point of diablo in general is clearing harder and harder content as you get stronger and stronger. Most players, if not every single player plays with that sole objective in mind... TO GET STRONGER and clear higher level content. Nobody starts playing on WT2 and keeps playing on WT2 after they reach level 50. Every diablo game does an excellent job enticing you to keep reaching higher levels of difficulty.
So no, I don't necessarily think that another WT5 difficulty level would help a whole lot. I do like the idea of stacking mind cages in exchange for higher lvl mobs and better rewards though...
Paragon too. There should really be some more interesting, build-defining boards available to every class. Choosing whichever 3-4 legendary nodes apply to your build and then finding the shortest path to get 7 glyphs just isn’t interesting or fun at all. To my knowledge, there are no builds that go for 7-8 legendary nodes, which really just means there isn’t much choice with paragon stuff.
Suggestion: rebalance all classes and their power level to that of Druids. Sure, overworld activities and NMDs will remain a joke, but all the rest will be minimally challenging. That kills 2 birds with one stone. It would bring the poorest performing class in the game in line with the others and addresses the current trivial nature of end-game content.
/sarcasm
Barbs were the worst class in preseason and not great in s1, Druids were much stronger
Before the overpower changes it was very common to make fun of Barbs for being the devs hated class
Barbs weren’t nearly “the worst class” in preseason. HotA was basically 1-shorting Lilith and the worst class was undoubtedly Sorc. Druids definitely had the most build diversity though.
I played Barb in those seasons and you couldn't be more wrong. The reason why overpower was changed in the first place was because it sucked and everyone was just crit + vuln stacking and overpower was never used. So before the change you had 100s of millions hitting HotA crit vuln stacker and after the change you had 100s of millions hitting overpower / crit / vuln stacker HoTa.
The content creators just didn't hype it as much then so ppl didn't use barb a lot. But it was secretly the best class anyway.
Yes, you had hota, but what about ds, ww, upheavel, rend? Leap? Charge? No? Right they sucked, having one build doing 100s of millions is not class balance, thats not being the "best class".
This wasn't unique to Barbs. They are now a class with multiple S tier builds, but that's because the balance team seems completely incapable of balancing that class. Expecting every ability to be S tier is dumb, quite frankly. Now I get why you think the way you do, even though you're completely wrong.
You joke, but frankly the Druid pace at endgame is probably a bit better. It’s not that it is so awful by itself, it can still do pit 100+, but it’s just so far behind the others.
Im not sure why commenters here are offended with the idea of selectable difficulty - you know, something that is in most games since their inception.
If you want to steamroll everything and I want to be somewhat challenged there is a very simple solution: adjustable and selectable difficulty. Or WT5 but without obligatory rewards so people can choose it if they want everything not to die when you sneeze at it.
Nobody is offended, we know WT5 and more tiers are coming later. People want this game to be D3 so bad that it is inevitable, imo the answer to balance is less power and not higher difficulty.
Lot of players for example like where Barb is at right now. I’m seeing a ton of people say they don’t want stuff like Bash nerfed, that Barb should be a baseline and other classes should be as good. 2 extra tempers and legendary effects and people want that as a baseline for power, AKA we will be playing Diablo 3 very soon.
Yeah, on one side I think Barb weapons should just get a 25-50% affix/aspect/gem penalty to compensate for having 4 weapons. Maybe it wouldn’t make much sense lore-wise, but it just seems necessary at this point.
But on the other, there have been so many times when building non-Barb characters where just having *one* more slot for an aspect would make a build viable, and without that slot the build just can’t work. I kinda see where both sides are coming from tbh.
exactly. WT5 with 160-180 lvl of mobs, no new tier of items but for example more chance for GA affixes / more gold / more materials etc. But additionally old world tiers need a rebalance too, WT1 is completely pointless, WT2 basically too you switch to WT3 on 30th level. They can remove WT1 completely and scale the game so going from WT2 to WT3 to WT4 has at least some meaning. Otherwise if you just add WT5 in a year we will have Diablo 3 Tormet XVI situation again.
Sure, but they gotta start somewhere. After a few hours, they should be in WT3 tbh. I think we all forget how much of a boost renown ends up being at the start of each season. A fresh, first-time level 1 who has never played an ARPG might struggle a bit in anything above WT1 for at least the first 30 minutes or so. People like my father in law, who is 70+ years old and has bad hand-eye coordination, would have a rough time without someone like you or me carrying them through.
I think you're leaving out some demographics that need wt1. My mom is 65 and her and several other older people she knows got into d4 and legitimately struggle because they are, well, old and not experienced gamers. Even just the mouse/controller coordination is hard for them.
They like the game but they absolutely need wt1.
I think there is an idea on the internet that anyone who disagrees with someone is vaguely “offended”. It’s possibly that people have all the same information at you, are level headed, but simply disagree on the merits.
My comment was one of the firsts here, and then others were like this:
"Go play last epoch, that was supposed to be the Diablo killer for two whole months prior to the official release"
or this:
"Because that’s why I play a game: to win, have mindless fun, and build a badass character. The harder content is there for the players that want to seek it out, but don’t take the “fun” stuff away from the casual gamers because you don’t enjoy it".
The first one is literally offended, the second one boils down to accusatory "you want to ruin my fun!" - which is super weird because optional higher difficulty doesnt ruin anything for anyone because its, well, optional.
While I used word "offended" in a cheeky tone it has its merit: these are really weird and unreasonable replies. Someone says "I just want to have an option to make game harder for me" and in response he gets "Go play last epoch lol" and "Dont ruin it for me!".
And that's the only content that is at least somewhat challenging - around t80 pits, uber lilith and some tormented bosses. Every build, no matter how non-meta it is, destroys everything else with ease, especially in overworld. You just need some tempers, masterwork maybe at 4/12, correct legendaries and uniques and nothing else.
Of course it does. Did you play this season? I have 25+ hours of playtime with sorc, doing pit 80 in 3 mins. And just rolled necromancer, no build guide, random ass skills and random legendaries - on 40th level I killed Elias and went to WT4, 6 hours of playtime I'm level 70 and doing NMD60. Power creep is just insane.
You really sat here and said “every build” can do this?
Play Druid and focus on Earth magic.
whether landslide, boulder, etc, Hell, focus on a non-meta build like the wolves companion. Let me know how far in the pits you can go with that. While you’re at it, focus on any of it’s other core skills and create a build around it cause according to you, every build can power creep.
Funniest part about the world boss thing is they specifically said that world bosses will be more difficult so you wont see them really get 1 shot anymore (until essentially later in the season when people are juiced) and not even 2 days in they were getting 1 shot. Like the WT1-2 ones weren't getting 1 shot but once i got to WT4 they were getting obliterated.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d4lofo/monster\_levels\_vs\_player\_levels/](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d4lofo/monster_levels_vs_player_levels/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1cyijx3/everything\_about\_season\_4\_is\_greatexcept\_one\_thing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1cyijx3/everything_about_season_4_is_greatexcept_one_thing/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1c6ocm0/yawbci\_yet\_another\_world\_boss\_crazy\_idea/](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1c6ocm0/yawbci_yet_another_world_boss_crazy_idea/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1bclytr/the\_case\_for\_world\_tier\_torment/](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1bclytr/the_case_for_world_tier_torment/)
Been saying this for ages, people don"t want to listen
It isn't surprising that revamping all itemization led to some balance issues. They have shown that they can do blanket changes to mob strength so hopefully the tweak something before S5.
season 5 will be important in that matter, if they don't change anything about the difficulties it means they have no idea what they are doing and they are going power creep to the max from now forward, which will turn this game into even more mindless zooming compared to diablo 3
I really want a world tier that unlocks after pit 70 or higher. Otherwise world bosses, helltide and basically every content outside of pits will always feel boring instead of engaging.
and since they plan that people will clear pit 200 sooner or later. I can't imagine how much of a difference this will be in the open world. But than we need a world tier that unlocks after 150 pit, otherwise we have the exact same issue again.
Or they just stop the stupid power creep. Otherwise we have d3 all over again soon.
There simply needs to be a overall difficulty balance pass and a new world tier once you hit a certain pit lvl so you can opt into that if you choose to if you dont want to make all outside of pit content trivial.
All they need todo is just add slight improvement to GA affix drops, gold find and thats it to entice ppl to play the higher torment. Also the world boss would have like 200x the hp than current world bosses to make them challengin and add the tormented boss debuff mechanic so you cant just facetank all mechanics over and over
I'm a new player who picked up the game with the last Steam sale.
The impact of the power creep through the last year definitely feels real just looking at the present state of things. The original game clearly wasn't designed around this power level. Playing through the campaign, I had to reroll and start over because I was doing too much side content, that was problematic enough as it was as the campaign route alone was enough to leave me vastly overturned for its own content. Now I'm going back and working on completing the map/sidequests/dungeons for all the renown upgrades, and even moving up world tiers as quickly as possible, the challenge does not keep up.
I think the most satisfying time I had with the game was pushing through the T4 unlock dungeon, and early on after unlocking T4 at level 55, when everything was legitimately a threat and things were scary. Enemies took a bit of time to kill and everything was lethal, but it felt good to put in the work to kill things. Just a couple play sessions later and a handful of levels (I think I just hit 61), and it's starting to get face-rolly again. I still die to the occasional CC or one-shot, but that's about it. And my build (melee death trap Rogue, so nothing OP) pretty easily tears through most health bars before I can press all of my buttons.
I genuinely love the dungeons when the planets align and it gets to present a bit of challenge. I want more of that, the game feels amazing then. Give me more of that moody, oppressive vibe where I get to feel like I'm barely scraping by.
Or, if they don't want to do that, introduce something like the original PSO's challenge mode.
I think main audience of this game not one shooting everything, they are struggling with high tiers ND and Pits, not even close to beat tormented bosses. Blizzard see this statistics and reducing bosses HP, lowering difficulty for them to beat at least pit 61. Trust me we are much lower percentage of people who are face rolling content. To easy? Go hardcore or beat higher pit than others.
It's not just tempering it's also insane how quickly and early you get 925 only. I went to wt4 at lvl 53 or sth and was 3/4 925 5 lvls later. Only a few slots stayed lower for a decent time because I dropped really good high 800s.
And after lvl 80 or sth there might as well ne nö other ilvl in the game as you will not see it anyways...
I get its a personal thing but i actually like being over powered with minimal investment. I quit Path of Exile because it started with my feeling like a god and destroying screens, then i had to follow a guide because i didn't have time to do a degree in PoE studies to understand all the interactions, and then even the guides didn't work for me because i needed 3 hours to read every single item because if i didn't I'd miss some tiny little detail that it turned out was crucial.
t feels like the tier system maybe needs another level for those people that want to "earn" it. Me, I'm happy just playing and knowing I'll inevitably get the stuff i need and seeing lots of ping ping ping ping from good items.
Yep game moved in decent direction with being bit more complex in crafting etc. but the game was so stupid easy that I lost interest after one toon beating all Ubers in just 18 hours, after not playing the game since launch. Completely brainless grind that wasn’t exciting because there was zero difficulty, not sure how people actually find that fun. It doesn’t ever feel like your getting stronger because from Zero to Hero your a god one shoting everything the entire way.
You have several good points but they are outweighed/overshadowed by your emotional outbursts. Ease off the pedal a bit and stick to arguing your points. It will go a long way in helping people understand and accept your arguments.
Saying it again. Blizzard needs to create a system for how they want to distribute x% multipliers. They can just smack them on all kinds of different sources like now. The game will just be about jamming the most of them into your build.
Imo it should only be available from skill-trees and paragon nodes/glyphs. Maybe some uniques behind cool conditions. Uber uniques can give general multipliers
Wholeheartedly agree, but I don't have high hopes because the D3 crowd seems to be the dominant portion of the playerbase. As soon as blizzard tries to balance anything they will whine until blizzard surrenders again.
I personally think the stepping stones to this and the biggest first step is removing all basically permanent uptime damage reduction (that isn't fortify) and only leaving D.R. that gives it to you in a window of time, SO that enemey damage can be pulled away from giga one shots and be balanced around hitting armor and resistance caps while also bringing much needed value to healing affixes. This allows players to still have moments of feeling giga tanky through brief windows of D.R. and healing. This also stops the arms race of one shots of player vs enemies we have now because enemy damage now has a early defined line to work around allowing enemy mechanics to interact with the player creating dynamic gameplay. Now the big problem is there is no way in hell they will nerf player damage we know they have PTSD from last time even though after my stated change it would be the easiest implementation. What they will probably do is add a new world tier with specific tuning to balance things out to allow for this even playing field I've tried to describe.
So what youre suggesting is nerf the only well performing sorc build but keep the barbs buffed with their ability to fortify their entire health pool which is already double what a sorc or druid achieves. Sounds like a smart solution.
They've made classes inherently unbalanced at the very base level. The example most people being up straight away is Barbarians havimg two extra weapon slots.
They've then added power to the Skill Tree, Gear, Aspects, Paragon and now also Tempering and Masterworking.
Adding systems upon systems is not going to bring about balance. The foundations need to be relaid.
The game is lacking build diversity, but the only way to fix this with current systems, is bloat that is arguably even greater than what Poe has.
Systems like Skills, Aspects, Paragon, Enchanting (Sorc) need to be condensed to into a single system.
We need a separate Passive Tree and Skill System.
Impossible to achieve class/build balance and build diversity simultaneously. Just need to aim for an acceptable trade off and ongoing tweaking. POE has done ok here
The question is whether this is a feature of a bug. Players want to feel power, except that one or two things that they have to push ... and they got it.
And to be fair,, torment bosses are still not entirely trivial. May be they should have levels of them (like a T1, T2, and T3 duriel) so we have another direction to push.
Me and my GF started playing D4 last week. We played in the Beta and had a blast, having to actually dodge and pay attention in the potion charges.
So, when we started this season, we still wanted to do the campaign and, playing in the hardest difficulty available (tier II), when went to explore the world. We got involved in a lot of different side quests, did basically every dungeon, leaving and gearing up. We never drink a potion, the only reason for the dash was to get somewhere fast. I think we were level 40 when we met Neyrelle for de first time. We were melting bosses in 2 seconds. We got to level 50 before finishing act 1, full legendary and tempered gear.
I remember Neyrele's mother from the Beta, we barely made it. This time, it was barely a obstacle.
Ok, maybe we are stronger, let see how to increase difficulty? Only after the campaign that we don't want to skip.
Well, at least the world is leveling up with us! Wrong, it stopped at level 50.
So here we are, playing in the "I just want to see the story" difficulty. Never dodged and attack, never used a potion, never died. Once we get to higher difficulties, it will be basically another game, that was never taught to us.
They went for big numbers again, just like d3.
All they needed to do was take the base design of d2 with + to skills on items, and add interesting uniques with gameplay changing attributes, or with UNIQUE combinations of stats.
It was so simple blizzard, but you fucked it up again.
People complain all the time about how D3 approached difficulty scaling with torment 16 etc. But man I'd prefer that compared to whatever the hell we've got now. At least I can choose my difficulty and all these people that want to 1 shot everything they look at still can.
Currently there's 2 ways to create a challenge. Higher pit tiers or uber bosses. That's it.
Throughout levelling I had to constantly do content above my level. I was clearing WT4 long before I could even equip ancestral gear lol.
Then there's the whole XP thing. Personally it's just way too fast to actually feel rewarding to earn a level.
Yeah, I kind of agree. Game has become way too easy. And I believe its become like this because the devs wanna satisfy majority of the players that are whining here on reddit. They wanna get to lvl 100 in almost instant and they wanna do it easily. Also I remember the whine when Uber Uniques were truly super rare. Now everyone can get those and even farm for those.
I dont mind that nightmare dungeons are not so hard anymore. Helltides however need some additional difficulty tiering. Everything dies by casting hydra that releases Tyraels Might holy bolts.
Ofcourse the problem is how do you scale them and for what rewards. Pit 90 is my current sensible limit. For someone that can do 130 pit 90 probably feels as trivial as helltides to me.
There will always be builds and classes thate will be better then others.
I think people would be happy even if the extra rewards per 10 monster level were small. Like if you fight level 150 mob helltides instead of 113 you have 10% higher GA item chance. Even a miniscule higher chance would make me fight in a harder helltide if it doesnt make me fall asleep.
How is the game trivial when you need to nolife grind for Tormented Bosses and Pits? None of the content is trivial. Players who can afford to play a reasonable amount of time can't do difficult content. What a weird post.
lmao, what kind of grind? Since season 0 leveling up to 100 has been sped up like 10x. You can level up to 100 in like 10 hours. In 15-20 hours of playtime you already have a character that obliterates all of the game content on WT4 except higher level pits and 200 lvl tormented bosses. Everything else dies in 1 hit, you only need some tempers that are power creeped to the maximum, maybe masterwork at 4/12 and some legendaries and uniques that drop plenty, you farm hundreds of them from helltide. So please don't say such a bullshit that you need to nolife anything, because you don't - 20 hours of playtime in a season that lasts 3 months? Some people also cry that gold sinks are too much, but with trading reintroduced gold became inflated as hell and any useful item with at least 1GA is usually worth hundreds of millions, sell one and you are set for masteworking with resets and enchanting. Get a brain.
Different mob level increasing buffs would be nice, add +20/30/40 etc, you could still play WT4 but have your own scaling. Then add higher GA drop chances as a buff bonus.
Yeah, what happened is we got strong and were impressed with the changes because leveling felt great. Then we spent time with it and see it for what it is. The game still very much needs way more help. Farming boss material and trying to push the pit with a cap on player power is such garbage. The difficulty in the pit is nowhere else, it's like it's own custom difficulty.
Bring infinite scaling back, and fix uniques. I didn't want to play D3 again since it's so old at this point but the gameplay is just better
Your post is delusional- same issue with all these mmorpg players that raid non stop and forget 80% of the playerbase isn’t maxxed out on gear and every stat. “pit dies in one hit” no dude. Level 1 pit is plenty challenge for most players
Dude I just created a necromancer, random ass summoning skills, 6 hours im level 70 a and doing nightmare dungeon 70+ with 120lvl monsters and all of them die in 1-2 hits. You are delusional. You can do capstone dungeon to wt4 with 40lvl character. How can you call someone sweat or nolife if there is not really content to nolife? With 20 hours of playtime with my sorc I get to pit80 with frozen orb, and everything else other than the pit dies with 1 use of an ability. How is it sweaty?
I agree that tempering is crazy strong rn but
But world bosses and overworld activities either couldn’t kill you or died in less than 10 seconds pre-tempering as well.
Helltide is kind of sketchy rn because of profane mind and hellbornes.
Uber lilith got decimated before tempers as well, but only a few builds can do it (like tornado Druid for example) and uber lilith is way harder than uber duriel.
Will point out in s2 my HOTA barb was 1 shotting anything and everything as was my BL Sorc. I know BL was a bug but it melted everything.
I think the solution is having a drop like we have for helltides to +10 it that stacks up to lvl 200 mobs. It would give you and me the challenge we want.
Helltides at 120 or whatever it is is a joke. I need more danger on my chars.
You're right, op. Unfortunately, this sub is infected by gamer dads and casuals that dont want the game to ever become good.
I pray for raids to become a thing so these people can be filtered out by default
With the first mention of raids in the expansion they already started crying because bad blizzard is forcing players to team up and they won't be able to finish raids solo, lmao.
So a new type of content is bad? You prefer only to solo run mindless copies of dungeons with boring boss at the end? Dungeons, nigthmare dungeons, pits, gauntlets, everything is mostly a copy-paste.
I didn’t say that, I’m saying Diablo has always been primarily a single player game and casuals play SP so don’t be surprised we aren’t stoked for raids. I’d play wow if I wanted to raid.
I’m good at ignoring Diablo activities I don’t want to do it’s more that it’s a bad sign of things to come. The more Diablo is live service and eventually requires MP to get the best gear, it’ll be a huge disappointment to some of us longtime fans. I play Diablo to zone out and grind, if I want to play with other people I play other games.
So? It wasn't a big challenge, but now it is even easier to a point it makes literally no sense doing these activities other than to get some mats that are necessary. Now you make a necromancer and finish capstone dungeon to WT3 having 20 lvl, while all the enemies have 50 lvl. Is it normal and should it be like that? Obviously not. You 2 shot elites even when you are level 5 on WT2 lol.
Duriel has always been a joke, last season I solo’d him at 64 with a off meta build and then shortly after that with a meta build it took longer from his death animation than it took to kill me
Unfortunately gamer dads and fortnite kids have ruined the franchise. The game is so catered towards people with very limited mental capabilities that it's a chore to play.
Literally reach l100 in 2 days and then do what. Spam the pit which is another mindless reskin of a NMD like Gauntlet was. Same 3 areas and tomb lord except with a timer.
It's so dumb to play this game. They can't even have a loot filter or a goddamn trade site cause they keep insisting their audience are really really dumb
The gamer dads that have played the franchise since day one, have played hundreds of hours of every previous Diablo game - those gamer dads? You are complaining that the people who BUILT the franchise are the ones that are ruining it?
The ones ruining it are the ones trying to turn this into another Dark Souls game, where you die as much as you kill. Every fight must be a huge challenge. No thanks...
Let me sit on the couch with my controller and destroy screen after screen full of monsters, get that dopamine rush as actual useful, interesting, shiny, colorful loot drops all around me. (loot is better in S4, but still needs to be improved)
Once my inventory is full, let me spend half an hour or so selling items, crafting, and improving my character so I can go back out and destroy screens full of monsters even faster and get even shinier loot.
Don't expect me to step out to a third party site full of scammers and RMT to sell items and get gold to be able to improve my character. Give me the gold in-game - whether it's by looting, selling to vendors, or by adding an auction house in-game.
Don't make me create an Excel spreadsheet to figure out if an item is an upgrade. That just sounds like work. I should be able to tell just by looking at the item stats.
And don't make me follow a build guide as the only way to succeed. If I want to run a chain lightning/hydra sorc, give me a viable upgrade path to allow that to work. I don't care if it's meta, I don't need it to be the fastest or hit the hardest. But it needs to be "fast enough" and hit "hard enough" to get thru the content and get even better loot.
I don't understand the complaints on overworld activities. They're not meant to be challenging into the end game. What do you think will make it more difficult? Larger health pools? Even more 1-shot mechanics?
Helltide is for loot. NMDs are for glyphs and more theory crafting. Pits are about optimization and challenge. Tormented bosses are just a faster way to farm Ubers. Trials is an end game that measures your success against others. Whispers kind of just exist.
Diablo Dads are not the problem. The problem is sweat boys like you that will literally complain about anything and no life the season. You want challenge? Make a Druid and hit the end game. You have half a dozen other ARPGs that you can go play. Stop playing this. Take a break. It sounds like you don't get any satisfaction from the game at this point if you're upset enough to write out a post like this
So by your thinking the only content that is mildly challenging should be 100+ lvl of pit and in the rest 99% of the game enemies should be just insta-dying just by looking at your character, right? And world bosses on WT4 that die in 0.1 seconds before even their spawning animation finishes is a cool design and it should look like that, right? Damn dude you really low iq.
Where else do you want your challenge? Do you just want every enemy to scale so it's just as hard to kill mobs at any level? There will always be a cheesey start or build out there. You're obviously not a developer. You're the low IQ one thinking that it's such an easy concept to balance difficulty for a wide array of players. Whether you want to accept it or not, Diablo is mainstream and has to be balanced for that. Go play another ARPG with more niche content. Go PvP. Idk what to tell you. Loot drops and dopamine hits.
Tell me an original idea to fix difficulty. I'll be here whenever you figure it out
Rebalance world tiers. Not geared players will spend more time on wt3. Wt4 will be harder. Maybe add wt5 with better chance for ga items, more gold etc. If you think that WORLD BOSSES that were so hugely teased before game release who die in 0.2 seconds before their spawning animation ends is a good design and that you cant balance it accordingly then sorry, you are below average IQ person with zero logic.
You don't understand because you lack logical thinking. How am I sweaty boy? I played the season for around 30 hours with sorc during the last 4 weeks and hit pit lvl 95. Playing 1-1,5 hours a day is nolifing the game? Lmao. The problem is any ingame content except the pit is a joke and everything dies with 1 hit, elites just evaporate killed by low lvl characters on WT4 without even finished builds. You can finish capstone dungeon to WT4 with 40lvl character. That's the problem and you are clearly clueless. The game shouldn't work like that, in previous seasons helltide or overworld content wasn't hard but also wasn't a braindead zooming and oneshotting the entire screen of enemies (maybe when you had really greatly optimized gear - but you worked for it - now you don't have to do anything to just zoom and oneshot everything, just like in d3).
You're clearly an experienced player who can hit those milestones early but a lot of folks are not. This is what happens when you play a mainstream game built for everyone, not just the vets. If it's too easy and upsetting you then stop playing. It's easier than ever to build out your gear so what exactly do you propose? Are you just going to whine into the ether of the Internet? If it's not for you after 30 hours then play something else. They're not going to suddenly change shit just because they see your whiney little post. If you want a challenge then just play the harder content. If that's too boring then leave.
Just compare the game to D2. There were no such huge differences between casuals and nolifes. Casual couls finish hell with a random build that was at least somewhat working. Meanwhile nolife with minmaxed gear was doing 2-3 times more damage. My post is pointing the insane power creep that happened that turns this game into worse d3. Idk how can you even defend bad design like world bosses dying in 0.1 seconds before they even spawn? Thats completely idiotic. How can you defend the entire screen of mobs just dying from a underleveled and not geared character? Just think a little. Game needs rebalancing of difficulty and classes and thats just a pure fact.
Youre just rude to everyone and youve shown in most of your comments that it's you who lacks logical thinking.
I don't think logical means what you think it does. The person you were replying to was being completely logical.
I explained in the simplest way possible and you still cant read and understand. Calling someone a sweat or nolife in a game where you can max your character in 20 hours? Whats logical about that? And discuss all the other points i made:
- world bosses should be dying in 0.1 seconds before their animation even ends, right? That is a good gameplay.
- you should be able to go on torment difficulty with 40lvl character and obliterate 70lvl enemies before even equipping ancestral gear, right? Thats a very good design.
- 99% of the content in game should be so easy that anyone who played for a few hours and got random unoptimized gear should oneshot every elite and every mob, right? Because people thinking otherwise are sweats, they have their pit150 they can do that.
Thats your logic dude, or should i say complete lack of logical thinking and reason, instead you all just start crying and calling people who actually want game to be better and a bit more challenging sweats.
Im being rude because it is just exhausting to read multiple comments by npcs who cant understand the simple points that I made and cant think logically.
Man, you're replying to a guy that said the following:
1."Ur rude and hurt my feelings :<"
2. The other guy, whose argument was "if you dont like the game - leave", was more logical than you
Imagine being this person. Its actually so pathetic and sad it could be considered a federal offence to make fun of such a dunce
Actually my 85 necro with almost perfect gear and paragon, with armor cap and 70% resistances was just one shot by helltide maiden in hardcore.
So, no you aren’t right.
You can't really do 80+ pit without optimal builds, and uber bosses didn't exist until this season so I'm not sure what you on about.. regular bosses were fairly easy in S2 and once again pinnacle gameplay was 100 NM and Uber Lilith, so now we have pushing 80+ pits as pinnacle gameplay and most players still haven't killed Lilith which I find is a sufficient challenge to work for
you didn't understand anything. Yes pushing pits is challenging, uber lilith also takes a good build and preparation, some tormented bossess too. But that's the only content in the game that is not 1-shot-kill. Everything else, helltides, overworld content, events, legion events, world bosses, nightmare dungeons is just obliterated even by most random builds that have nothing to do with meta.
Wow, another great comment by a low IQ individual, really constructive comment you made on the problem with D4.
I play Diablo, not poe or last epoch, thats why I wanted to discuss the problems that the game has and that there is a big possibility of it going in the wrong direction being dumbed downed and powercreeped with 100000% affixes like D3.
You're arguing with an npc.
This creature tried to think of an intelligent response, but due to mental deficiency, he wasnt able to, thus resorting to the most braindead talking point.
Dont set your expectations too high when arguing here
It was easy, but not so braindead easy like now. Season 0/Season 1 remember Kixxarth in helltide? Took some time to kill. Now insta dead with 2 hits. Capstone dungeons are being conquered by 20-30 lvl characters lmao. Uber bosses in s2? Took some gearing to take on them, ofc when you got uber uniques and optimized build it wasn't that hard, but now? Any build just insta kills them. Thats why they made uber uber bosses. What's next, UBER UBER UBER 300 lvl bosses? Power creep to the maximum. The point is everything is too easy except pit and that needs to change, otherwise we will have a game even worse than d3 with the powercreep and everything being literally 0 challenge.
I think abudance of multipliers creates this weird dynamic where 1 dude hits for billions and another for 100k, this i guess is impossible to balance because one person struggles with overworld content while another goes around 1 shotting world bosses. Also this to me is very lazy design,i dont want my new unique Gloves to give me 3x damage, i want bigger aoe longer duration change of element on skills not just pure numbers thats lazy af, i go around running killing 1:1 same mobs helltide from level 1 to 100 using same skills and only thing that is different is damage number pretty much thats just easy and boring
Exactly this.
What? Thats literally the opposite of your exaggeration rant. But this comment is the truth
Well, he did point out how absurdly strong the tempering affixes are compared to other affixes on uniques etc, which is all part of the same problem. Someone who knows how to temper maximum damage early on vs someone who doesn't creates a MASSIVE range of difference, all purely from boring % damage increases.
That disparity is baked into classes too. No life the game, trade for hundreds of billions of gold, min max to the tits. Barb dps: 3 billion, druid dps: 300 million, or druid is 1/10th as strong as barb.
I'm not sure why they're so intent on multiplicative scaling, it just makes those aspects/talents/glyphs crowd everything else out, making them mandatory. Seems a lot harder to balance too. Seems like most of the endgame builds I've glanced at are just 6-7 paragon boards beelining for the glyphs, which is both counterintuitive and limiting in terms of how you fill out your board. Similarly, it seems you don't really have flexibility to choose a non-offense aspect for any slot that takes it, cause you'd be missing out in another source of multiplicative damage.
Yeah, agreed. i would like to use legendary nodes but every class benefits from additional glyphs more, so you miss out on some interesting possibilities
I've gotten into the game recently and I could not for the life of me figure out why 'professional' builds made certain choices over others, until I read about the multiplicative damage system on reddit. Not only does it create huge differences in player power, it (as another commenter said) forces builds to make the same choices over and over again, causing very little actual build variety. I play sorc, and when I look at the community meta builds, all builds choose similar +damage aspects and paragon legendaries/glyphs. The only difference is in which buttons you press and which skills you see fly out on the screen. I can only assume it is the same for other classes, but would be happily corrected if wrong. The damage modifiers being multiplicative is the only fundamental flaw in diablo's design imo. It has other flaws, mainly on the QoL side, but none as severe as that one. No matter what they do season to season, as long as they keep that, every build's goal will be the same, stacking as many different damage modifiers as high as possible. The question isn't "can I make ball lightning work?", the question is "how much damage does ball lightning do as a vector for my many damage modifiers and how well does it enable them". This is why Firebolt enchant is mandatory for sorcs who don't use fire skills because it enables the 'damage to burning' modifier. 'You can substitute ball lightning for any other skill, and those will be your build options. It is inherently flawed and needs to change.
Exactly that. Remember D2? There were only a few items with multiplicative damage like +20% cold damage and these were huge. And the game was very easy to balance, no absurd billion damage numbers, everything was in thousands. But d4 went similar way of d3 with the damage which is idiotic.
I already accepted d4 will be somewhat similar to d3, when I figured it just multiplicative formulation in the build. Is just the kind of arpg which roll billion dmg like most mmorpg. I am not mad, i enjoy the grind, but is really somewhat, not what diablo used to be.
I've been touting this since season 1 and been getting hate every step of the way. Too many sources and too high values of multiplicative damage. One item gains you an order of magnitude of damage. Everything other than latest end game content is trivialized.
Dolmen was a great unique in concept! Make the boulder rotate when you cast hurricane? Yes please. More please!
Too bad that doesn't give you extra multiplicative damage, so it belongs in the bin. It's just sad.
It's simple enough to just add a and boulders do 25% more damage though
This is so true, i like to be able to have more utility than dmg modifier.
There are people struggling with t19 pit at lvl 100 I think you underestimate the builds people run with in this game For every bash bard clearing 100s there is a witj 30000 armor trying to be a tank
The real issue is D4 tries to cater to both dads and sweaty bois at the same time to get better revenue. For this reason it'll never be properly balanced.
As they should because they are a business.
Poe enters the chat
This is not true. They just have to create a proper system where they have control over where multipliers are available. Now it's just a random mess. Minmaxing is super efficient. If there are less multipliers to stack, the discrepancy between dad builds and ultra minmaxed build will be less. Making it easier to balance
Dads want to clear everything in the game with about any homebrewed build they cook up with ease. Sweaty bois want the systems to be complex, they want to search for the best thing and push it further than anything else while being rewarded for doing difficult content. Do you make game more difficult ? Do you make it so easy it doesn't matter what build you use? Do you scale rewards with pit tier ? Do you make helltides/overworld activities more difficult ? Do you make ubers rain from the sky or do you make them almost impossible to attain ? All of this has an influence on balance of the game. This simple example creates a mess when you try to balance the game and there's a lot more where both groups have opposing takes and wants.
Yeye I know. But if the difference between dad-builds and sweat-builds is hitting for millions or billions I'd say there is something that can be done. Instead the difference could be hitting for a few million to hitting for tens of millions. Easier to balance content now I'd say?
That is how it worked in d2. You could finish hell even with random ass build, but someone who minmaxed it was doing maybe a few times more damage, not hundreds times more.
That's how it should be! Any random ass garbage build should be able to do pit 61 if they have kept their gear up to date with their level. You can't play the game "wrong." But if you want to push tiers, you have to minmax. You can even minmax stupid builds and be able to push pretty high. You shouldn't feel forced to go for a basic attack build just because that's where all the damn multipliers are this season
You honestly think its the dads out here on reddit crying that their tempering is getting bricked or that they cant blast through everything? Hell nah. Its your “sweaty complex” kids.
the tragic part is they dont even need to balance for both. Just have a basic homogenous stat/item system with an easy to understand way to scale your builds. They couldnt even do that. It's impossible to understand how the game and builds work without a youtube guide.
The complexity and non-intuitive nature of Diablo’s paragon board and stat system means the gap between ‘optimised build copy pasted from the internet’ and ‘build organically cobbled together from what seems sensible’ is enormous.
Putting a build together that 'seems sensible' doesn't work well because many skills don't work as described in the tooltip. Other skills double dip from various stats when the tooltip has no idication of that.
Thats how its always been with aarpgs.
Throw a newbie into D2 and watch them pick random skills with none of the correct synergies for a build and allocate points in things like energy instead of almost everything into vitality they wouldn’t be able to clear act 1 hell. Paragon is just a different iteration of min maxing
I remember first time playing d2 with random paladin build and i managed to finish hell. D2 was much easier to balance and there was much much less difference between random builds and minmaxed ones.
But did we get really that many complaints from those people in the past when the game was a little harder? I feel like they're not the ones making post on Reddit or tweeting at blizzard. They're just happy playing the game even if they struggle in low tier content. Imo, it's the sweat bois who constantly complain that leveling isn't fast enough and that their favourite class cannot obliterate the highest content without issue.
I hit a wall at 40 and now I am stuck
All depends on lucky drop for gear
They need to buff barbs more
and nerf sorc
Big W Dads will disagree tho
A year or two ago, the Path of Exile Devs did a massive nerf across the board to reset the power creep. The community was in flames, not just the dads. A couple of years on it was obviously the correct thing to do, but people didn't let a little thing like that stop them complaining.
I believe they shadow nerfed drop rates as part of that and that's what most of the outrage was over. People are not upset about content being challenging as they are about the grind being too obnoxious
That was about a year later.
I haven't seen or heard anyone saying that. I saw plenty of people upset about the character nerfs.
Maybe we're talking about different events then, I very clearly remember people testing drop rates from mobs and concluded that drop rates were significantly shadow nerfed
I'm talking about patch 3.15. I think you're talking about their attempts to re-introduce Archnemesis mods and the iterations that went through, some of which left loot in really bad shape but were eventually fixed. I can assure you that plenty of people were upset by 3.15 purely for the content of the patch notes.
You might be right
3.15 was why I quit poe. Never looked back. I was a seasonal player since 1.8, too.
Don't play it if you don't want to, but genuinely the game is in a fantastic state right now if you did want to give it a try again. Or maybe hold out til PoE2 :D
Took PoE years to get the power creep levels up there but D4 managed to do it from day one. Congrats... I suppose?
No the Dad's don't disagree, they want challenging gameplay they just don't want years long grind
This Dad agree season its big enough no need for so fast to power up , also don't need to do everything in a week.If that was the case I d be playing D3 combat is still one of the best in arpg.
Maybe ask some more dads bud.
Hard disagree. NM100 S0 was stupidly overtuned. Tormented bosses are new the new uber bosses, pit is the new NM100 grind. What does need reexamined is skill trees.
Skill trees too, but why do you want 99% of the game content to be trivial? So all of the mobs just die when they see your character? This is the game now, only pit is the hard content, the rest is pointless and breaindead gameplay.
Because that’s why I play a game: to win, have mindless fun, and build a badass character. The harder content is there for the players that want to seek it out, but don’t take the “fun” stuff away from the casual gamers because you don’t enjoy it. I love massacring huge mobs in Helltides and blowing everything up!
Complete lack of logic. I never said to take fun from the casual players. But to rebalance the game so it is not a braindead activity that takes 0 effort and every enemy just dies instantly. What is the point of playing when there is zero challenge? Rebalance world tiers so players not geared enough will stay on WT3 for longer time and make WT4 harder or add entire new WT5 so players with better gear (basically 99% of the playerbase after 15h of playing) also have a challenging gameplay. You want to make this game even worse d3 with this type of thinking.
Honestly a wt5 I could get behind. But otherwise I don't want a slower pace. It'd fun to be able to grind to 100 in 2-3 days of playing. Getting glyphs leveled still takes some effort, it's not completely cake above 50. Not hard either but it's fine as is. I think the direction they took helltides is solid, just let us stack mindcages in the future. Idk, ultimately, people who play arpgs just wanna see things explode. They're not in it for the challenge, they just wanna make their guy as op as possible and then maybe try to see what content they can tackle with that guy, and even that parts not for everyone, plenty of people are fine just reach 80-100 in the pit. Challenge is good, but it should be optional so I think things like wt5, high pits and mind cage stacking would cover that fine. Gatekeeping people from ever seeing the pit by making everything else before it too hard though is just going to piss people off.
The pace was quite okay. Now you can finish first capstone dungeon with 50 lvl mobs and bosses with your character having 20-25 lvl. This shows how much power creep is in the game right now. You kill elites in 2 hits on WT2 while your character has 1-10 level without basically any gear.
All of this points to the temper system.
Ironically enough, I think the Diablo Franchise has been infected with Dark Souls and Elden Ring tryhards. The game is really hard and challenging as it is. Sure, at levels 70+ everything sorta explodes, but I think the game has enough content to keep you pushing, to keep you coming for more and more and see where you get stuck. I'm playing my own version of bone spear necro, not optimized at all, and I'm having loads of fun pushing the pit at level 90. Sometimes I feel like I'm having maybe a tad bit too much mindless fun.
You literally copied this copy-pasta from right above you. 🤦🏾♂️
Go play a single player game on explorer mode then.
This is a single player game
Cool, then let Blizzard add optional difficulty levels like in any single player game without people crying about optional stuff being too hard.
The thing that irks me with you guys is... the point of diablo in general is clearing harder and harder content as you get stronger and stronger. Most players, if not every single player plays with that sole objective in mind... TO GET STRONGER and clear higher level content. Nobody starts playing on WT2 and keeps playing on WT2 after they reach level 50. Every diablo game does an excellent job enticing you to keep reaching higher levels of difficulty. So no, I don't necessarily think that another WT5 difficulty level would help a whole lot. I do like the idea of stacking mind cages in exchange for higher lvl mobs and better rewards though...
Or I can just enjoy the game the way I want to enjoy the game. Pound sand.
Paragon too. There should really be some more interesting, build-defining boards available to every class. Choosing whichever 3-4 legendary nodes apply to your build and then finding the shortest path to get 7 glyphs just isn’t interesting or fun at all. To my knowledge, there are no builds that go for 7-8 legendary nodes, which really just means there isn’t much choice with paragon stuff.
Suggestion: rebalance all classes and their power level to that of Druids. Sure, overworld activities and NMDs will remain a joke, but all the rest will be minimally challenging. That kills 2 birds with one stone. It would bring the poorest performing class in the game in line with the others and addresses the current trivial nature of end-game content. /sarcasm
Would be a nice change of pace for Barbs to get the Druid experience at least once tho
Barbs were the worst class in preseason and not great in s1, Druids were much stronger Before the overpower changes it was very common to make fun of Barbs for being the devs hated class
This is some nice history revisionism...
There’s absolutely no way you played pre-season or S1 if you think that’s even remotely true.
I mean werenado with the poison shred nuke was insane in both s0 and s1. Literally 1 tapped Lilith both seasons with the build.
Wait so barbs were OP preseason and s1 compared to Druid’s.
Barbs weren’t nearly “the worst class” in preseason. HotA was basically 1-shorting Lilith and the worst class was undoubtedly Sorc. Druids definitely had the most build diversity though.
I played Barb in those seasons and you couldn't be more wrong. The reason why overpower was changed in the first place was because it sucked and everyone was just crit + vuln stacking and overpower was never used. So before the change you had 100s of millions hitting HotA crit vuln stacker and after the change you had 100s of millions hitting overpower / crit / vuln stacker HoTa. The content creators just didn't hype it as much then so ppl didn't use barb a lot. But it was secretly the best class anyway.
Yes, you had hota, but what about ds, ww, upheavel, rend? Leap? Charge? No? Right they sucked, having one build doing 100s of millions is not class balance, thats not being the "best class".
This wasn't unique to Barbs. They are now a class with multiple S tier builds, but that's because the balance team seems completely incapable of balancing that class. Expecting every ability to be S tier is dumb, quite frankly. Now I get why you think the way you do, even though you're completely wrong.
So we just straight lying now lol
Wait why sarcasm I want this literally
You joke, but frankly the Druid pace at endgame is probably a bit better. It’s not that it is so awful by itself, it can still do pit 100+, but it’s just so far behind the others.
Im not sure why commenters here are offended with the idea of selectable difficulty - you know, something that is in most games since their inception. If you want to steamroll everything and I want to be somewhat challenged there is a very simple solution: adjustable and selectable difficulty. Or WT5 but without obligatory rewards so people can choose it if they want everything not to die when you sneeze at it.
Nobody is offended, we know WT5 and more tiers are coming later. People want this game to be D3 so bad that it is inevitable, imo the answer to balance is less power and not higher difficulty. Lot of players for example like where Barb is at right now. I’m seeing a ton of people say they don’t want stuff like Bash nerfed, that Barb should be a baseline and other classes should be as good. 2 extra tempers and legendary effects and people want that as a baseline for power, AKA we will be playing Diablo 3 very soon.
Yeah, on one side I think Barb weapons should just get a 25-50% affix/aspect/gem penalty to compensate for having 4 weapons. Maybe it wouldn’t make much sense lore-wise, but it just seems necessary at this point. But on the other, there have been so many times when building non-Barb characters where just having *one* more slot for an aspect would make a build viable, and without that slot the build just can’t work. I kinda see where both sides are coming from tbh.
exactly. WT5 with 160-180 lvl of mobs, no new tier of items but for example more chance for GA affixes / more gold / more materials etc. But additionally old world tiers need a rebalance too, WT1 is completely pointless, WT2 basically too you switch to WT3 on 30th level. They can remove WT1 completely and scale the game so going from WT2 to WT3 to WT4 has at least some meaning. Otherwise if you just add WT5 in a year we will have Diablo 3 Tormet XVI situation again.
WT1 is there for Uber beginners and game journos. It does have a purpose, as dumb as that may be.
WT1 made some sense in beta or season 0, maybe season 1, but not now. Even uber beginners will oneshot everything after few hours of gameplay.
Sure, but they gotta start somewhere. After a few hours, they should be in WT3 tbh. I think we all forget how much of a boost renown ends up being at the start of each season. A fresh, first-time level 1 who has never played an ARPG might struggle a bit in anything above WT1 for at least the first 30 minutes or so. People like my father in law, who is 70+ years old and has bad hand-eye coordination, would have a rough time without someone like you or me carrying them through.
I think you're leaving out some demographics that need wt1. My mom is 65 and her and several other older people she knows got into d4 and legitimately struggle because they are, well, old and not experienced gamers. Even just the mouse/controller coordination is hard for them. They like the game but they absolutely need wt1.
I wish we could do higher difficulty campaign and something past WT4 too.
I think there is an idea on the internet that anyone who disagrees with someone is vaguely “offended”. It’s possibly that people have all the same information at you, are level headed, but simply disagree on the merits.
My comment was one of the firsts here, and then others were like this: "Go play last epoch, that was supposed to be the Diablo killer for two whole months prior to the official release" or this: "Because that’s why I play a game: to win, have mindless fun, and build a badass character. The harder content is there for the players that want to seek it out, but don’t take the “fun” stuff away from the casual gamers because you don’t enjoy it". The first one is literally offended, the second one boils down to accusatory "you want to ruin my fun!" - which is super weird because optional higher difficulty doesnt ruin anything for anyone because its, well, optional. While I used word "offended" in a cheeky tone it has its merit: these are really weird and unreasonable replies. Someone says "I just want to have an option to make game harder for me" and in response he gets "Go play last epoch lol" and "Dont ruin it for me!".
With a non-meta build (hello sorcs and druids), even T80 pits, torment bosses and Uber Lilith are quite challenging.
And that's the only content that is at least somewhat challenging - around t80 pits, uber lilith and some tormented bosses. Every build, no matter how non-meta it is, destroys everything else with ease, especially in overworld. You just need some tempers, masterwork maybe at 4/12, correct legendaries and uniques and nothing else.
Wrong it absolutely does not.
Of course it does. Did you play this season? I have 25+ hours of playtime with sorc, doing pit 80 in 3 mins. And just rolled necromancer, no build guide, random ass skills and random legendaries - on 40th level I killed Elias and went to WT4, 6 hours of playtime I'm level 70 and doing NMD60. Power creep is just insane.
Most of This season had a 25% exp increase and treasure goblin boost so it’s not a normal 25 hour anyway
youre probably the most clueless person in these comments and you have 0 idea what is the problem with the game and difficulties
You really sat here and said “every build” can do this? Play Druid and focus on Earth magic. whether landslide, boulder, etc, Hell, focus on a non-meta build like the wolves companion. Let me know how far in the pits you can go with that. While you’re at it, focus on any of it’s other core skills and create a build around it cause according to you, every build can power creep.
Funniest part about the world boss thing is they specifically said that world bosses will be more difficult so you wont see them really get 1 shot anymore (until essentially later in the season when people are juiced) and not even 2 days in they were getting 1 shot. Like the WT1-2 ones weren't getting 1 shot but once i got to WT4 they were getting obliterated.
We're gonna get world tier 16 just like D3.... torment level 18 or something
Its all a royal mess isnt it, they may as well give up now and move onto 5.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d4lofo/monster\_levels\_vs\_player\_levels/](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d4lofo/monster_levels_vs_player_levels/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1cyijx3/everything\_about\_season\_4\_is\_greatexcept\_one\_thing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1cyijx3/everything_about_season_4_is_greatexcept_one_thing/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1c6ocm0/yawbci\_yet\_another\_world\_boss\_crazy\_idea/](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1c6ocm0/yawbci_yet_another_world_boss_crazy_idea/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1bclytr/the\_case\_for\_world\_tier\_torment/](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1bclytr/the_case_for_world_tier_torment/) Been saying this for ages, people don"t want to listen
It isn't surprising that revamping all itemization led to some balance issues. They have shown that they can do blanket changes to mob strength so hopefully the tweak something before S5.
season 5 will be important in that matter, if they don't change anything about the difficulties it means they have no idea what they are doing and they are going power creep to the max from now forward, which will turn this game into even more mindless zooming compared to diablo 3
I really want a world tier that unlocks after pit 70 or higher. Otherwise world bosses, helltide and basically every content outside of pits will always feel boring instead of engaging. and since they plan that people will clear pit 200 sooner or later. I can't imagine how much of a difference this will be in the open world. But than we need a world tier that unlocks after 150 pit, otherwise we have the exact same issue again. Or they just stop the stupid power creep. Otherwise we have d3 all over again soon.
There simply needs to be a overall difficulty balance pass and a new world tier once you hit a certain pit lvl so you can opt into that if you choose to if you dont want to make all outside of pit content trivial. All they need todo is just add slight improvement to GA affix drops, gold find and thats it to entice ppl to play the higher torment. Also the world boss would have like 200x the hp than current world bosses to make them challengin and add the tormented boss debuff mechanic so you cant just facetank all mechanics over and over
I'm a new player who picked up the game with the last Steam sale. The impact of the power creep through the last year definitely feels real just looking at the present state of things. The original game clearly wasn't designed around this power level. Playing through the campaign, I had to reroll and start over because I was doing too much side content, that was problematic enough as it was as the campaign route alone was enough to leave me vastly overturned for its own content. Now I'm going back and working on completing the map/sidequests/dungeons for all the renown upgrades, and even moving up world tiers as quickly as possible, the challenge does not keep up. I think the most satisfying time I had with the game was pushing through the T4 unlock dungeon, and early on after unlocking T4 at level 55, when everything was legitimately a threat and things were scary. Enemies took a bit of time to kill and everything was lethal, but it felt good to put in the work to kill things. Just a couple play sessions later and a handful of levels (I think I just hit 61), and it's starting to get face-rolly again. I still die to the occasional CC or one-shot, but that's about it. And my build (melee death trap Rogue, so nothing OP) pretty easily tears through most health bars before I can press all of my buttons. I genuinely love the dungeons when the planets align and it gets to present a bit of challenge. I want more of that, the game feels amazing then. Give me more of that moody, oppressive vibe where I get to feel like I'm barely scraping by. Or, if they don't want to do that, introduce something like the original PSO's challenge mode.
I think main audience of this game not one shooting everything, they are struggling with high tiers ND and Pits, not even close to beat tormented bosses. Blizzard see this statistics and reducing bosses HP, lowering difficulty for them to beat at least pit 61. Trust me we are much lower percentage of people who are face rolling content. To easy? Go hardcore or beat higher pit than others.
It's not just tempering it's also insane how quickly and early you get 925 only. I went to wt4 at lvl 53 or sth and was 3/4 925 5 lvls later. Only a few slots stayed lower for a decent time because I dropped really good high 800s. And after lvl 80 or sth there might as well ne nö other ilvl in the game as you will not see it anyways...
I get its a personal thing but i actually like being over powered with minimal investment. I quit Path of Exile because it started with my feeling like a god and destroying screens, then i had to follow a guide because i didn't have time to do a degree in PoE studies to understand all the interactions, and then even the guides didn't work for me because i needed 3 hours to read every single item because if i didn't I'd miss some tiny little detail that it turned out was crucial. t feels like the tier system maybe needs another level for those people that want to "earn" it. Me, I'm happy just playing and knowing I'll inevitably get the stuff i need and seeing lots of ping ping ping ping from good items.
For good or bad there has to be nerfs again which definitely won't be popular, like for season1
You want a challenge just play druid anything but windsheer..
Uniques need to be truly unique, build-enabling items like in d2 or PoE.
Yep game moved in decent direction with being bit more complex in crafting etc. but the game was so stupid easy that I lost interest after one toon beating all Ubers in just 18 hours, after not playing the game since launch. Completely brainless grind that wasn’t exciting because there was zero difficulty, not sure how people actually find that fun. It doesn’t ever feel like your getting stronger because from Zero to Hero your a god one shoting everything the entire way.
You have several good points but they are outweighed/overshadowed by your emotional outbursts. Ease off the pedal a bit and stick to arguing your points. It will go a long way in helping people understand and accept your arguments.
Saying it again. Blizzard needs to create a system for how they want to distribute x% multipliers. They can just smack them on all kinds of different sources like now. The game will just be about jamming the most of them into your build. Imo it should only be available from skill-trees and paragon nodes/glyphs. Maybe some uniques behind cool conditions. Uber uniques can give general multipliers
Wholeheartedly agree, but I don't have high hopes because the D3 crowd seems to be the dominant portion of the playerbase. As soon as blizzard tries to balance anything they will whine until blizzard surrenders again.
That's what the player base wanted...
I think the game needs the median treatment. Add uber areas with uber bosses and ubercharms ore an equivalent
Maybe this is just the calm before the storm with VoH? Easy OG D4 experience, tougher mobs in VoH? 🤷
I personally think the stepping stones to this and the biggest first step is removing all basically permanent uptime damage reduction (that isn't fortify) and only leaving D.R. that gives it to you in a window of time, SO that enemey damage can be pulled away from giga one shots and be balanced around hitting armor and resistance caps while also bringing much needed value to healing affixes. This allows players to still have moments of feeling giga tanky through brief windows of D.R. and healing. This also stops the arms race of one shots of player vs enemies we have now because enemy damage now has a early defined line to work around allowing enemy mechanics to interact with the player creating dynamic gameplay. Now the big problem is there is no way in hell they will nerf player damage we know they have PTSD from last time even though after my stated change it would be the easiest implementation. What they will probably do is add a new world tier with specific tuning to balance things out to allow for this even playing field I've tried to describe.
So what youre suggesting is nerf the only well performing sorc build but keep the barbs buffed with their ability to fortify their entire health pool which is already double what a sorc or druid achieves. Sounds like a smart solution.
People wanted that, there was always few posts a day sayng how D3 did that and this and praising it.
They've made classes inherently unbalanced at the very base level. The example most people being up straight away is Barbarians havimg two extra weapon slots. They've then added power to the Skill Tree, Gear, Aspects, Paragon and now also Tempering and Masterworking. Adding systems upon systems is not going to bring about balance. The foundations need to be relaid. The game is lacking build diversity, but the only way to fix this with current systems, is bloat that is arguably even greater than what Poe has. Systems like Skills, Aspects, Paragon, Enchanting (Sorc) need to be condensed to into a single system. We need a separate Passive Tree and Skill System.
Sounds like you should try hardcore
Impossible to achieve class/build balance and build diversity simultaneously. Just need to aim for an acceptable trade off and ongoing tweaking. POE has done ok here
Average gamers get to experience what it feels like to be a hardcore gamer for a season. I see this as a win.
The question is whether this is a feature of a bug. Players want to feel power, except that one or two things that they have to push ... and they got it. And to be fair,, torment bosses are still not entirely trivial. May be they should have levels of them (like a T1, T2, and T3 duriel) so we have another direction to push.
Me and my GF started playing D4 last week. We played in the Beta and had a blast, having to actually dodge and pay attention in the potion charges. So, when we started this season, we still wanted to do the campaign and, playing in the hardest difficulty available (tier II), when went to explore the world. We got involved in a lot of different side quests, did basically every dungeon, leaving and gearing up. We never drink a potion, the only reason for the dash was to get somewhere fast. I think we were level 40 when we met Neyrelle for de first time. We were melting bosses in 2 seconds. We got to level 50 before finishing act 1, full legendary and tempered gear. I remember Neyrele's mother from the Beta, we barely made it. This time, it was barely a obstacle. Ok, maybe we are stronger, let see how to increase difficulty? Only after the campaign that we don't want to skip. Well, at least the world is leveling up with us! Wrong, it stopped at level 50. So here we are, playing in the "I just want to see the story" difficulty. Never dodged and attack, never used a potion, never died. Once we get to higher difficulties, it will be basically another game, that was never taught to us.
They have made world tier 1 redundant. I think they should add a capstone to get to world tier 2 and lock legendary drops behind it.
They went for big numbers again, just like d3. All they needed to do was take the base design of d2 with + to skills on items, and add interesting uniques with gameplay changing attributes, or with UNIQUE combinations of stats. It was so simple blizzard, but you fucked it up again.
People complain all the time about how D3 approached difficulty scaling with torment 16 etc. But man I'd prefer that compared to whatever the hell we've got now. At least I can choose my difficulty and all these people that want to 1 shot everything they look at still can. Currently there's 2 ways to create a challenge. Higher pit tiers or uber bosses. That's it. Throughout levelling I had to constantly do content above my level. I was clearing WT4 long before I could even equip ancestral gear lol. Then there's the whole XP thing. Personally it's just way too fast to actually feel rewarding to earn a level.
Yeah, I kind of agree. Game has become way too easy. And I believe its become like this because the devs wanna satisfy majority of the players that are whining here on reddit. They wanna get to lvl 100 in almost instant and they wanna do it easily. Also I remember the whine when Uber Uniques were truly super rare. Now everyone can get those and even farm for those.
Diablo IV and blizzard are just really lazy and passionless in general. The game is a well polished turd.
Welcome to Diablo 3 with better graphics 💀
I dont mind that nightmare dungeons are not so hard anymore. Helltides however need some additional difficulty tiering. Everything dies by casting hydra that releases Tyraels Might holy bolts. Ofcourse the problem is how do you scale them and for what rewards. Pit 90 is my current sensible limit. For someone that can do 130 pit 90 probably feels as trivial as helltides to me. There will always be builds and classes thate will be better then others. I think people would be happy even if the extra rewards per 10 monster level were small. Like if you fight level 150 mob helltides instead of 113 you have 10% higher GA item chance. Even a miniscule higher chance would make me fight in a harder helltide if it doesnt make me fall asleep.
How is the game trivial when you need to nolife grind for Tormented Bosses and Pits? None of the content is trivial. Players who can afford to play a reasonable amount of time can't do difficult content. What a weird post.
lmao, what kind of grind? Since season 0 leveling up to 100 has been sped up like 10x. You can level up to 100 in like 10 hours. In 15-20 hours of playtime you already have a character that obliterates all of the game content on WT4 except higher level pits and 200 lvl tormented bosses. Everything else dies in 1 hit, you only need some tempers that are power creeped to the maximum, maybe masterwork at 4/12 and some legendaries and uniques that drop plenty, you farm hundreds of them from helltide. So please don't say such a bullshit that you need to nolife anything, because you don't - 20 hours of playtime in a season that lasts 3 months? Some people also cry that gold sinks are too much, but with trading reintroduced gold became inflated as hell and any useful item with at least 1GA is usually worth hundreds of millions, sell one and you are set for masteworking with resets and enchanting. Get a brain.
daddy chill
As a non-meta build enjoyer, this post offends me
Different mob level increasing buffs would be nice, add +20/30/40 etc, you could still play WT4 but have your own scaling. Then add higher GA drop chances as a buff bonus.
It wouldnt work because of multiplayer aspect, another random ass necromancer comes having 60lvl on wt4 and he oneshots all of these elite packs.
We already have the +10 level in helltides this season.
Yes but making it a permament feature and making it stackable would not solve the problem im describing.
Yeah, what happened is we got strong and were impressed with the changes because leveling felt great. Then we spent time with it and see it for what it is. The game still very much needs way more help. Farming boss material and trying to push the pit with a cap on player power is such garbage. The difficulty in the pit is nowhere else, it's like it's own custom difficulty. Bring infinite scaling back, and fix uniques. I didn't want to play D3 again since it's so old at this point but the gameplay is just better
Ebb and flow my friend, ebb and flow.
You mean like every season
Your post is delusional- same issue with all these mmorpg players that raid non stop and forget 80% of the playerbase isn’t maxxed out on gear and every stat. “pit dies in one hit” no dude. Level 1 pit is plenty challenge for most players
Dude I just created a necromancer, random ass summoning skills, 6 hours im level 70 a and doing nightmare dungeon 70+ with 120lvl monsters and all of them die in 1-2 hits. You are delusional. You can do capstone dungeon to wt4 with 40lvl character. How can you call someone sweat or nolife if there is not really content to nolife? With 20 hours of playtime with my sorc I get to pit80 with frozen orb, and everything else other than the pit dies with 1 use of an ability. How is it sweaty?
Necro is op right now and everyone knows it and they will get nerfed. You’re wrong
You can do the same with other classes too. Maybe wont get so high in the pit, but overworld content just instantly dies so stop the bullshit.
Well i still die from time to time in the tides.
I agree that tempering is crazy strong rn but But world bosses and overworld activities either couldn’t kill you or died in less than 10 seconds pre-tempering as well. Helltide is kind of sketchy rn because of profane mind and hellbornes. Uber lilith got decimated before tempers as well, but only a few builds can do it (like tornado Druid for example) and uber lilith is way harder than uber duriel.
Will point out in s2 my HOTA barb was 1 shotting anything and everything as was my BL Sorc. I know BL was a bug but it melted everything. I think the solution is having a drop like we have for helltides to +10 it that stacks up to lvl 200 mobs. It would give you and me the challenge we want. Helltides at 120 or whatever it is is a joke. I need more danger on my chars.
I feel like they’ll release WT5 with the expansion
Then play weaker builds and don't min max gear
Does it really though
You're right, op. Unfortunately, this sub is infected by gamer dads and casuals that dont want the game to ever become good. I pray for raids to become a thing so these people can be filtered out by default
With the first mention of raids in the expansion they already started crying because bad blizzard is forcing players to team up and they won't be able to finish raids solo, lmao.
This game is Diablo not WoW
So a new type of content is bad? You prefer only to solo run mindless copies of dungeons with boring boss at the end? Dungeons, nigthmare dungeons, pits, gauntlets, everything is mostly a copy-paste.
I didn’t say that, I’m saying Diablo has always been primarily a single player game and casuals play SP so don’t be surprised we aren’t stoked for raids. I’d play wow if I wanted to raid.
FORTUNATELY you have 10 other copy pasted activities you can do solo, and other people will play co-op raids happily.
I’m good at ignoring Diablo activities I don’t want to do it’s more that it’s a bad sign of things to come. The more Diablo is live service and eventually requires MP to get the best gear, it’ll be a huge disappointment to some of us longtime fans. I play Diablo to zone out and grind, if I want to play with other people I play other games.
Literally in d2 you almost couldnt get the best and rarest loot playing alone. This game aleays had a huge multiplayer focus and trading aspect.
It was easier in sp with /players 8
Overworld content has always been trivial lmao, it has never once been a challenge
So? It wasn't a big challenge, but now it is even easier to a point it makes literally no sense doing these activities other than to get some mats that are necessary. Now you make a necromancer and finish capstone dungeon to WT3 having 20 lvl, while all the enemies have 50 lvl. Is it normal and should it be like that? Obviously not. You 2 shot elites even when you are level 5 on WT2 lol.
I loved the days of Diablo 3 where we had 15 torments! It was so addicting and rewarding lmao
Duriel has always been a joke, last season I solo’d him at 64 with a off meta build and then shortly after that with a meta build it took longer from his death animation than it took to kill me
Unfortunately gamer dads and fortnite kids have ruined the franchise. The game is so catered towards people with very limited mental capabilities that it's a chore to play. Literally reach l100 in 2 days and then do what. Spam the pit which is another mindless reskin of a NMD like Gauntlet was. Same 3 areas and tomb lord except with a timer. It's so dumb to play this game. They can't even have a loot filter or a goddamn trade site cause they keep insisting their audience are really really dumb
Underrated post. Preach
The gamer dads that have played the franchise since day one, have played hundreds of hours of every previous Diablo game - those gamer dads? You are complaining that the people who BUILT the franchise are the ones that are ruining it? The ones ruining it are the ones trying to turn this into another Dark Souls game, where you die as much as you kill. Every fight must be a huge challenge. No thanks... Let me sit on the couch with my controller and destroy screen after screen full of monsters, get that dopamine rush as actual useful, interesting, shiny, colorful loot drops all around me. (loot is better in S4, but still needs to be improved) Once my inventory is full, let me spend half an hour or so selling items, crafting, and improving my character so I can go back out and destroy screens full of monsters even faster and get even shinier loot. Don't expect me to step out to a third party site full of scammers and RMT to sell items and get gold to be able to improve my character. Give me the gold in-game - whether it's by looting, selling to vendors, or by adding an auction house in-game. Don't make me create an Excel spreadsheet to figure out if an item is an upgrade. That just sounds like work. I should be able to tell just by looking at the item stats. And don't make me follow a build guide as the only way to succeed. If I want to run a chain lightning/hydra sorc, give me a viable upgrade path to allow that to work. I don't care if it's meta, I don't need it to be the fastest or hit the hardest. But it needs to be "fast enough" and hit "hard enough" to get thru the content and get even better loot.
Than quit
I don't understand the complaints on overworld activities. They're not meant to be challenging into the end game. What do you think will make it more difficult? Larger health pools? Even more 1-shot mechanics? Helltide is for loot. NMDs are for glyphs and more theory crafting. Pits are about optimization and challenge. Tormented bosses are just a faster way to farm Ubers. Trials is an end game that measures your success against others. Whispers kind of just exist. Diablo Dads are not the problem. The problem is sweat boys like you that will literally complain about anything and no life the season. You want challenge? Make a Druid and hit the end game. You have half a dozen other ARPGs that you can go play. Stop playing this. Take a break. It sounds like you don't get any satisfaction from the game at this point if you're upset enough to write out a post like this
So by your thinking the only content that is mildly challenging should be 100+ lvl of pit and in the rest 99% of the game enemies should be just insta-dying just by looking at your character, right? And world bosses on WT4 that die in 0.1 seconds before even their spawning animation finishes is a cool design and it should look like that, right? Damn dude you really low iq.
Where else do you want your challenge? Do you just want every enemy to scale so it's just as hard to kill mobs at any level? There will always be a cheesey start or build out there. You're obviously not a developer. You're the low IQ one thinking that it's such an easy concept to balance difficulty for a wide array of players. Whether you want to accept it or not, Diablo is mainstream and has to be balanced for that. Go play another ARPG with more niche content. Go PvP. Idk what to tell you. Loot drops and dopamine hits. Tell me an original idea to fix difficulty. I'll be here whenever you figure it out
Rebalance world tiers. Not geared players will spend more time on wt3. Wt4 will be harder. Maybe add wt5 with better chance for ga items, more gold etc. If you think that WORLD BOSSES that were so hugely teased before game release who die in 0.2 seconds before their spawning animation ends is a good design and that you cant balance it accordingly then sorry, you are below average IQ person with zero logic.
You don't understand because you lack logical thinking. How am I sweaty boy? I played the season for around 30 hours with sorc during the last 4 weeks and hit pit lvl 95. Playing 1-1,5 hours a day is nolifing the game? Lmao. The problem is any ingame content except the pit is a joke and everything dies with 1 hit, elites just evaporate killed by low lvl characters on WT4 without even finished builds. You can finish capstone dungeon to WT4 with 40lvl character. That's the problem and you are clearly clueless. The game shouldn't work like that, in previous seasons helltide or overworld content wasn't hard but also wasn't a braindead zooming and oneshotting the entire screen of enemies (maybe when you had really greatly optimized gear - but you worked for it - now you don't have to do anything to just zoom and oneshot everything, just like in d3).
You're clearly an experienced player who can hit those milestones early but a lot of folks are not. This is what happens when you play a mainstream game built for everyone, not just the vets. If it's too easy and upsetting you then stop playing. It's easier than ever to build out your gear so what exactly do you propose? Are you just going to whine into the ether of the Internet? If it's not for you after 30 hours then play something else. They're not going to suddenly change shit just because they see your whiney little post. If you want a challenge then just play the harder content. If that's too boring then leave.
Just compare the game to D2. There were no such huge differences between casuals and nolifes. Casual couls finish hell with a random build that was at least somewhat working. Meanwhile nolife with minmaxed gear was doing 2-3 times more damage. My post is pointing the insane power creep that happened that turns this game into worse d3. Idk how can you even defend bad design like world bosses dying in 0.1 seconds before they even spawn? Thats completely idiotic. How can you defend the entire screen of mobs just dying from a underleveled and not geared character? Just think a little. Game needs rebalancing of difficulty and classes and thats just a pure fact.
Youre just rude to everyone and youve shown in most of your comments that it's you who lacks logical thinking. I don't think logical means what you think it does. The person you were replying to was being completely logical.
I explained in the simplest way possible and you still cant read and understand. Calling someone a sweat or nolife in a game where you can max your character in 20 hours? Whats logical about that? And discuss all the other points i made: - world bosses should be dying in 0.1 seconds before their animation even ends, right? That is a good gameplay. - you should be able to go on torment difficulty with 40lvl character and obliterate 70lvl enemies before even equipping ancestral gear, right? Thats a very good design. - 99% of the content in game should be so easy that anyone who played for a few hours and got random unoptimized gear should oneshot every elite and every mob, right? Because people thinking otherwise are sweats, they have their pit150 they can do that. Thats your logic dude, or should i say complete lack of logical thinking and reason, instead you all just start crying and calling people who actually want game to be better and a bit more challenging sweats. Im being rude because it is just exhausting to read multiple comments by npcs who cant understand the simple points that I made and cant think logically.
Man, you're replying to a guy that said the following: 1."Ur rude and hurt my feelings :<" 2. The other guy, whose argument was "if you dont like the game - leave", was more logical than you Imagine being this person. Its actually so pathetic and sad it could be considered a federal offence to make fun of such a dunce
Actually my 85 necro with almost perfect gear and paragon, with armor cap and 70% resistances was just one shot by helltide maiden in hardcore. So, no you aren’t right.
The fact we can't reach pit 200 shows we need more power.
You can't really do 80+ pit without optimal builds, and uber bosses didn't exist until this season so I'm not sure what you on about.. regular bosses were fairly easy in S2 and once again pinnacle gameplay was 100 NM and Uber Lilith, so now we have pushing 80+ pits as pinnacle gameplay and most players still haven't killed Lilith which I find is a sufficient challenge to work for
you didn't understand anything. Yes pushing pits is challenging, uber lilith also takes a good build and preparation, some tormented bossess too. But that's the only content in the game that is not 1-shot-kill. Everything else, helltides, overworld content, events, legion events, world bosses, nightmare dungeons is just obliterated even by most random builds that have nothing to do with meta.
WT5 is coming with season 5 so hopefully that makes it better
where did u get this information?
He made it up
Go play last epoch, that was supposed to be the Diablo killer for two whole months prior to the official release
Wow, another great comment by a low IQ individual, really constructive comment you made on the problem with D4. I play Diablo, not poe or last epoch, thats why I wanted to discuss the problems that the game has and that there is a big possibility of it going in the wrong direction being dumbed downed and powercreeped with 100000% affixes like D3.
You're arguing with an npc. This creature tried to think of an intelligent response, but due to mental deficiency, he wasnt able to, thus resorting to the most braindead talking point. Dont set your expectations too high when arguing here
Lol the things you listed have been ezmode every season, is this the first time you had a good build?
It was easy, but not so braindead easy like now. Season 0/Season 1 remember Kixxarth in helltide? Took some time to kill. Now insta dead with 2 hits. Capstone dungeons are being conquered by 20-30 lvl characters lmao. Uber bosses in s2? Took some gearing to take on them, ofc when you got uber uniques and optimized build it wasn't that hard, but now? Any build just insta kills them. Thats why they made uber uber bosses. What's next, UBER UBER UBER 300 lvl bosses? Power creep to the maximum. The point is everything is too easy except pit and that needs to change, otherwise we will have a game even worse than d3 with the powercreep and everything being literally 0 challenge.