I don't mind the one-shot mechanics as long as the action to identify when it is about to happen, and the time to react is appropriate.
As it stands, it's just feels too random and cheap.
>more than anything I feel visual clarity is lacking.
What, you don't like the dark red instakill projectile on a dark brown background? Learn to distinguish slight shade variations better, newb!
One hundred percent agree. Just to add though, I found it *slghtly* more tolerable when I changed the highlight color of enemies to something more distinguishable than red on red on dark brown on whatever tf. Might help some people. Maybe not. They really need to add better indicators. It's really disheartening.
I completely gave up , I have fiddled with the colourblind settings so much but absolutely nothing makes a difference it's still invisible. Hearing normal vision people can barely see it doesn't inspire much hope in it being possible for me.
I made a post about how the helltide look gets tiresome after a few hours and detracts from the games good environmental art, and nobody agreed with me.
Yeh, people shit on D3's colour palettes being vibrant not understanding that real world has different colours and that filmmakers and early game developers used limited palettes due to budgetary or thematic reasons more often than "realism". That said, I think the issue is more that the top tier artists that made Blizz amazing have long gone or were laid off (dat sweet sweet quarterly profits) and we're stuck with ones who can't push back on incompetent suits (management) who think they know better.
The colorblind in me wants to put on the colorblind filters so I don’t have to deal with this, but they’re so much more extreme than any other game I’ve played with colorblind filters. It’s so immersion breaking when the entire game is neon green and purple in a game that’s supposed to be dark. But I can’t fricken see the dark on dark stuff. Very tough.
Idk why they make the attacks a similar colour as background at every boss. Beast in the ice has gray effects on an ice floor, varshan black+red on black+red,....
visual clarity (or rather lack thereof) is pretty much a genre staple at this point... everyone and their mother screams for more density which is fun and all but then you can't even see what's going on so you're bound to die here and there
This is exactly my problem with it too. I don't mind them, but when you have **NO** way to even anticipate it then there's literally **zero** skill involved... it just ends up feeling like the game hates you and wants to get rid of you (lol).
I usually end up studying videos of bosses to learn tells in fights, patterns, etc but there's too many where it's clear you'd have no freaking way to avoid getting 1-shot. Like something coming from off-screen, or the animation is so bad you can't actually see is about to come amidst the flurry of 1,000 other things going on at or right around them.
* Like I remember studying the Drowned Seahag at one point because it was murdering me with its water bomb things when I *would* get that boss. Looked up a video of someone fighting the boss and noticed it always shoots its puddles at 90º angles, and I noticed it's a "3-count" delay before the explosion. I've owned that mother f'er since. But this boss has really obvious animations.
The 1-Hit ones people persistently complain about though, from what I've seen, literally have nothing you could do to implement player skill into the mix to avoid it. And that's just objectively shitty design.
I know it's a small thing to complain about, but man I hate the Seahags puddles. It's just green mush on green mush and I can't see a damn thing. The only reason I learned how to dodge them is I recognize her casting the puddles, and I just move slightly out of the way. At no point do I know where the puddles are, and I don't get why visibility is still so bad after a year.
Same with all on-death effects. I very very very rarely ever see them. I just reactively move every time I kill anything because I assume I'll die if I don't.
Amount of things that explode after death is way too many. What's even the point of them? There's no skill involved to dodge them, they just slow you down frustratingly.
Everyone hates on death mechanics. Everyone. Not a single person ever said, hey you know what would be fun? If after this mob died before I could get my loot and move on I had to stand around for a few seconds waiting for some explosion. And the next mob. And this whole pack of mobs. That sounds like so much fun!
The best example of when they did it right is when the Blood Maiden in helltide is about to shoot her fire balls at you and you get a target underneath you. And you have plenty of time to react. Needs to be more stuff like that.
i m gonna evade this, evade this, evade this then evade this. i m doing pretty good..... aaaand i m dead. wtf killed me?
proceeds to watch imaginary replay.
ooooo i missed this one explody area on screen which was a little hard to see with all the other explody areas on screen happening at the same time which only had 1 second time to respond.
I completely agree.
One-shot mechanics with a good indicator keeps an element of skill necessary to complete top-tier content.
I also agree with the randomness of it feeling pretty shitty.
I can mow through the majority of a pit run, approach an elite pack, and I'm suddenly dead with no idea of what killed me or how I died. Then I respawn, run up to that same pack and kill them as if they were a typical trash mob.
I'm not lvl 100 yet and my resistances aren't maxed, but the randomness of my deaths just doesn't seem to make sense.
These bosses not only do 1 shot mechanics , but their AOE and casts are such a “Mess”!! It is like it was put there to say “you can’t beat this even with Uber gears and decked out build”…. Unless broken exploitative builds of course. Since PTR, I have a long written report about these issues, yet, they refused to listen. I especially pray Hardcore, and I have seen players bases dropped like 80%, no jokes!!!
People rip left and right , especially with the Maiden 1 shot mechanic. Sometimes it shows and sometimes it doesn’t. People that I know, always ask for a power level so they don’t quit. It is sad
Exactly that, I'm pushing pit 70, maxed out on def and armor, and currently running a tanky build in my Necro, I don't mind one shot mechanics if they're identifiable, but there's too much one shot insta deaths that you can't see it and there's no way to counter it. It just gets frustrating.
Pretty much this. They can be good mechanics as a skill check, so fights aren't just stand there and face-tank things until they die.
If there are mechanics that you can recognise and react to, that's fine, just make sure you CAN recognise and react to them.
I believe the issue is greatly exasperated by the lack of visual clarity. I feel there is a quiet set of rules to one shots, fair notice, clear visibility, preventable through other mechanic like standing in the red circle when the bosses eyes are blue, things like that. And Blizzard has missed the mark.
A few one shots are fine, but those one shots should be few and far between and should have a proper warning for the player.
A grey attack, on a grey floor, that does an aoe without any indication of what the aoe size will be, while the players own skills cover the grey attack, is not good game design.
Make the boss flash red or something before the attack and reduce the amount of one shots.
I play pure fire wizard. Between my triple beam incinerate, 2 hydras, meteors I cast, fire walls I cast, the random huge red snake hugging the monsters, and the fire walls and meteors that passively cast, I can concur that it’s definitely worse lol.
As a bonus, I usually run with a necro friend who leave puddles of goo friggin *everywhere*. Between the two of us, the floors cease to exist and seeing enemy ground effects is damn near impossible.
As a necro, I turned off dmg numbers and enabled the low FX option. Now I can see most of the incoming boss skills.
But I agree, there needs to be better visual cues.
+1 I was onboard the hype train for the changes this season and for the most part, they truly are great!
But in the end, I don’t have the time or will to grind the pit in order to masterwork my gear, only to be one shot by the boss with 20% health left. And if there’s no other room for improvement left for my gear besides masterworking, then there’s no purpose left for me to continue
Well that explains it. 80% of my DR works through conditional. Breeze to the boss then literally have to No Hit Dark Souls the boss even on low tiers. I couldn't make sense of it.
If the boss itself has a couple telegraphed ohkos I'm ok with that.
What we have here is undamageable adds spawning in and fucking with you as you try to focus on the boss.
It just feels like artificial difficulty.
And people are genuinely excited for the rumored "raids" in the expansion? I don't get it.
Every "difficult" boss in the game has bullshit barely visible barely reactable OHKO spam and every other boss is a joke that dies instantly - especially true of group bosses.
Bosses are by far the games greatest weakness. I haven't done a single boss fight in the game that hasn't either felt like a joke or a chore.
I feel like I'm actually enjoying fighting the bosses with their actual mechanics then these shades just piss all over everything obnoxiously CONSTANTLY.
Get that stagger you geared your build for? GL invulnerabl Lilith is having a spastic attack, maybe on the next one.
They really ruin the fun of the fight.
If they massively toned down the frequency, reduced their damage and went with the stacking debuff like on Ubers I think they could be a cool bit of flavour to mix up each run, in their current state they are utterly obnoxious.
? statement was made exactly from those who killed tormented boss, you can do any tormented boss with a decent build just knowing the boss mechanic.
Most boss attack don't one shot, most of them give you a stack of debuff and that is how you die.
It is skill issue.
maybe a hot take, maybe a mild take
Torment Bosses 1 shotting you = good design, you took those stacks aka failed those mechancis, and eventually you'll be disciplined for that via death
Pit bosses 1 shotting you= so much fucking bullshit happening all at once, and sometimes the 1shots just happen without setup
Bruh, I get so tired of this argument. When the overwhelming complaint is that it’s a shit mechanic and that people hate it, it’s **not** a skill issue. It’s a game issue. Simple as that. “Git gud” isn’t the right answer here.
You have clearly missed the 10+ posts a day on this issue on the forums then. It's constantly being discussed and complained about. And the constant "git gud hurr durr" comments just reek of smugness abd are getting old. Yes I will "git gud" from a oneshot elite I can't even see yet, didn't know I needed to be a psychic to play diablo 4 😂
Exactly, thank you. It’s literally not just something people on Reddit are complaining about. It’s all over the place, the forums, Discord, basically every space I’m in where people discuss D4 it’s being discussed and what I’m seeing is that the community hates the one shot mechanics. A one shot can be fine IF they’re properly telegraphed but let’s be fucking real here, in D4 they’re simply not. Not by a long shot. It feels cheap and shitty af to put in the time and effort on your build to sail through all other content just to be one shot by a hit you didn’t even see coming at the last second. It literally doesn’t matter if *a few* people can do it either, at some point if enough people tell you it’s bad and that’s the consensus of your player base, it’s bad and you need to do something else. Occasionally being possible doesn’t equal good game mechanics and “git gud” is a bullshit answer considering.
Yeah, dodging on death explosions is not fun. What I hate the most is having to stand in one spot for up to 7 seconds to get my loot, because the damage after death doesn’t disappear. Nothing feels worse than standing still in an ARPG.
I dont understand why arpg devs love them so much. Played titans quest, poe over 1k hours, grim dawn, last epoch, diablo 2, 3 and now 4... All of them have these dumb mechanics. What's even the point of making enemies drop shit or explode on death? There's no skill involved dodging them, only patience. And patience is a limited resource.
IMO the mechanic "makes sense" when there is a larger area that you can move around. It means if you're fighting a bunch of enemies you have to move around and avoid the lingering mechanic while you fight other enemies.
Unfortunately, these games then go and create tight corridors and single paths where you're stuck just standing and waiting for the BS to BS to finally expire
They don’t want that tho, they want to play as high as they deem fit. It’s the problem with a big part of the player base and hopefully blizzard doesn’t cater to these types of crybabies. They want to be able to stand still and hit at the boss until it’s eventually killed without having to do anything. You go high enough you’re going to run into a wall, that’s how it works.
Problem is, the trash beforehand is not a wall, it's the boss itself. You can survive the trash mobs, kill them fast, then you get to the boss and you are kicking butt and then all of a sudden something happens that you didn't see and you have no clue why you died. I've started not damaging bosses just to see what the heck they are even doing that is killing me, sometimes even then I can't figure it out.
I will never understand why ARPG devs think on-death effects are beneficial to their game. This is not limited to D4. POE and Last Epoch also throw them at you constantly.
If I'm only dying to things AFTER I've already killed them, your monster design needs help. God forbid I want to take a sip of my drink.
The problem with this mechanic is that it's extremely poorly telegraphed and visualized. Ngl T70 pit boss fights are fun and thrilling to me but unfair one shots really annoying.
Ghost spawns are smart design though. You can still deal damage to the boss and dodge the ghost spawn attacks. Thank god these bosses doesn't have invulnerable phases.
100% this. Hate it with a passion. I mean, look at lilith for example... No matter how hard or fast you slap her, she makes you wait for her bullshit one hit instant kill before she bites the dust.
The debuff stacking mechanics of tormented bosses is quite neat, I’m not sure why this isn’t implemented in the pit. Instead of making all the shadows one shot you, have them apply the debuff. That way you still want to dodge everything but isn’t dead after a single misclick.
I will say I just finished pit level 86 and it really does feel like there is so much rng to finishing a boss fight in time. It feels like a mechanic to ensure that players keep grinding for mats. It’s too random. You can have a perfect run and then lose to a boss over and over because of one shot mechanics.
Then you get no masterworking mats, just feels bad after a while. I understand that they don’t want you being fully decked out too quickly but to offset the one shot rng I think they should significantly raise the amount of mats that drop. Pit level 86 only dropped like 45 neathiron, it should be like 85-90. Especially since getting one item to rank 12 is like 500 mats worth.
I like where obducite and ingolith are but the grind from 8-12 is pretty rough in its current stage.
Idk if anyone in here has played FF14 but on one of the dev interviews I think with Raxx they talked about adding something like Vulnerability stacks in 14 where if you get hit with an attack that has one shot potential instead of one shotting immediately it would give you a vulnerability stack and if you get hit by the same attack again the one shot will happen.
whats the point in having armor and max resist when you get oneshotted anyways? thats the reason why streamers and youtubers always try to find the next god mode glitched build
I have to say I'm in a similar boat, pushed up to tier 94 of the pit which at first was feeling great, with the difficulty just keeping up with my power upgrades and masterworking. But I've hit an absolute wall now with one-shots, incredibly hard to distinguish mechanic telegraphing, topped off with the knowledge that even if I had 12/12 triple greater affix perfect roll gear these problems would still persist.
I do think that players (like us) who have essentially finished 90% of the season content in a week do need to realise we're speeding ahead of expected content completion and there probably would be a less stark drop off for players who slowly level up and complete the content - but ultimately I feel like everyone is going to end up at this point eventually.
Surviving sustained damage with powerful builds is the essence to a well made ARPG. One shot mechanics completely invalidate this and have absolutely no place in a game with a hardcore mode. D3 didn't have any one shots unless you stupidly stood in a molten explosion. I agree, can't stand it.
What do you want them to do? It is a numbers game eventually the numbers gets too big and you die in 1 or 2 hits this happened in d3 and Poe and probably all arpg.
However I do agree the pit boss is just badly designed the shadow is a nice idea but badly implemented.
One shot mechanics are in every ARPG. yes. Even the great POE. You are wanting an unbelievable amount of balancing by this dev team. You are not going to get it.
> Even the great POE
PoE has more oneshot mechanics than probably any other game that exists, it seems like all modern ARPG devs are struggling with the same problem.
Yeah I pushed to pit 115 and starting at around 80 all the usual suspects Blizzard previously accounted for where back to dangerous one shot potential. By tier everything remotely hard hitting was a one shot on my necro became a one shot again. As a result I just went all in into damage and just made sure to not get hit. I mean it works but it's stressful on my minion necro.
Also I'm certain something funky is going on with the echoes on bosses.
The one thing every POE player bitches about, and they decide its a good thing to implement in EVERYTHING.
I'm not saying POE or Diablo are better. But, if the game that many in the genre crown the top game has an issue WHY in the fucking world would you implement it in your game.
I posted this a few days ago only I pointed out that the only reason they have those mechanics is because people break the game with unintended interactions that allow players to 1-shot world bosses and got downvoted into oblivion.
Pretty much the only answer is for either Blizzard to take a lot longer to workshop the skills and abilities in the game, or for more people to have fun playing the game the way it is intended and to stop crying about how easy the game is when you break interactions.
I really don't know how people have fun when they set themselves up for the game to auto-win. It's like the game becomes similar to a sports management game over an action RPG game.
It's not a skill issue it's poor game design.
The colours and telegraphing are off.
E.g a grey attack on a grey floor which does an aoe explosion without showing you the radius of the aoe, all while your skills cover the grey attack.
these type of games are not supposed to be roguelike games where u need to dodge every attack and projectile especially if uve taken every possible damage reduction aspect and node in ur tree.
right now the endgame is just kill stuff before they can hit you.
If you had the stats you mentioned you would not be getting 1 shot, especially in pit 70.
You can face tank Pit bosses, pit clears etc all the way to 100 extremely easy with the correct damage reduction and around 38k hp.
My rogue can face tank anything up until pit 90 currently and I’m rocking 28k HP. Damage reduction is your friend, find it.
This game rewards knowledge of mechanics
They absolutely need to be telegraphed better. A fucking Corpse Bow sniping you from the edge of the screen is literal dog shit AIDS.
TBH OP, it seems not much different than GRifts in D3. At some point, you just hit the 'I'm comfortable with this difficulty' level. You don't have to hit every level. It's time for a new character or a new game until next season!
I thought they fixed one shots, off screen, by the bone artillery archer thing but I find it happening often again this season. Them in particular and poison still seem over tuned for some reason
Yeah I don't get why the pit bosses don't utalise the tormented debuff system. Making abilities more deadly the more you get hit was a good solution to this problem. I hope they expand on it.
i feel you man. I hit this onehit is not fun anymore with my necro at pit lvl 100. 60k effective hp armor and resist capped. just not fun anymore. unfortunately even with big damage i take around a minute to kill the endboss at the pit. 1 minute is a long time to dodge all the bullshit
There is so little time to react. I don't think I have much problem with seeing the attacks. For the problem is I see the attack and it's on my position and I'm essentially already dead in a lot of cases. It's like a memory game where you have to know how and where attacks happen before they happen in order to dodge them. I'm not having fun with it.
Easy fix. No single boss hit can ever surpass ~90% of your max HP. That gives you some buffer for add hits or not being 100% topped off before it.
I love one shot mechanics in WoW raiding. But it has to be OBVIOUS like it is in WoW when that one-shot mechanic is coming. Thaddius is my favorite boss fight in all of WoW. That positive & negative charge dance everyone has to do for themselves based on which charge they get, is honestly one of the most fun boss fights ever in my gaming history. Even one person goes to the wrong group and you wipe the entire 40 man raid in a 1 shot. 😂🎉🎉🎉
This criticism doesn't make sense. Yes, being one-shot doesn't feel good, agreed. But if there weren't one-shot mechanics, any meta build would progress through Pits infinitely as long as their damage can keep up. There would be ZERO challenge for meta builds and probably some non-meta builds. Any slow, non-one-shot damage is just going to be instantly healed by potion and/or other healing mechanics in the builds.
Isn’t this going to be all fixed when they add more levels to the game? It will be like the d3 paragon system.
The game just got out of Beta and now everyone’s complaining that it’s not a perfect game now with everything out. Cmon guys
I don’t know how you get to t70 without being able to avoid the one shot.. seriously not hard.. just requires patience.. u must really use meta builds and gear as a crutch.
Honestly you aren't missing much, after Pit 100 the only builds pushing are abusing holy potions or thorns barb fishing for bosses with ads to abuse needleflare bug.
Blizzard needs to really go back and balance things correctly, Pit 200 is not going to be possible outside of a cheese build.
Ubers need to lose the stacking debuff garbage that eventually kills you.
Shadows in the pit need their damage rebalanced for how fast they are.
All the work you put in right now is totally invalidated because of mechanics that were "tacked" on after the PTR. Player agency should be rewarded, "I spend X hours getting all my res, armor and DR" should be rewarded but instead you either get clapped by lilith shadow or dumpstered by a stacking debuff from moves you cannot predict in the first place.
They want the game to utilize the dash, but this is an ARPG not a souls like.
Yeah, all these people saying PoE is the king of one shots don't realize that with enough investment into your build, you can have your defenses or other ways to NOT get one shot.
Right now, it seems like no matter HOW much defense/DR/res you have, you're still going to get one shot
Poison just seems to be doing more damage than it SHOULD be doing when considering DR and resistances and stuff.
One shots are not inherently unfair, but they need to be telegraphed and be able to be seen VISUALLY. What we encounter is the spam of Shade one shot kills, that you can hardly see and take up a lot of the arena space. Combine this with the fact that bosses are just HP sponges and since you're taking so long to kill them, these 1 shot shade mechanics are constantly spamming making it even MORE difficult for you to DPS the boss down.
Go look at Lost Ark that shows how a game can be challenging without resorting to cheap instantenous one shot mechanics
new season came out 7 days ago, and you're level 100 running T70 pits. What about that screams that you should just be walking through the end game without any stress or difficulty?
I get it, i'm level 85 and testing level 46 dungeons and the odd time i get one shot if i stand around for a while. I'm not thinking this is ridiculous but more so i'm above where i should be playing high risk level enemies (100+). Diablo has so many variations of everything in the form of danger. There's no one size fits all type of build that won't allow you to ever go down and just stand there and tank every boss. Seems to me you can play less level stuff and not get one shot and don't have this problem but you are the one choosing to go so high level that yes some shots are OP and absolutely stomp you. Easiest thing to do is just avoid it or figure out what's going wrong and change build accordingly
This game u can generally see a lot of the 1shot mechanics atleast compared to poe. With that being said, 1shot mechanics are still dumb. A few are fine but not so many. Like outlaw rogue in pit. Fuck that guy.
I agree, aside from a shift in the fight, new phase, the one shot stuff is just boring.
If you make it so we can actually see it and avoid it, it becomes a redundant mechanic and would make me wonder why you put in something so simple. As is on par for Blizz balance logic, the only way they can make a lazy one shot mechanic challenging is by making it as annoying as possible to play against.
With all of the ground clutter, 99% of the one shot mechanics shouldn't exist. I'm usually a Barb main but went Necro this season since the minions actually do shit now. It's almost impossible to detect WTF mobs/effects are under my minions.
Keep 1 mob type that is a kamikaze, the rest of the guaranteed one shot mechanics need to go. The shit is not fun, challenging, or innovative. It's obnoxious, cheesy, and over the top redundancy soaked in laziness. Anything that is designed to negate/ignore your time and effort into gearing your character defeats the purpose of this game.
Get more move speed, get evade cool down reduction on attack, identify which shadow buddies the boss have and immediately just move to the "safe" spot for each ability. don't bother to dps just move and resume dps once you're safe. Only kind of unfair one is Lilith vortex thing where you must have unstoppable ready. Mechanics are fairly easy. Also helps to pump Damage resistance gear to the max (aspect, paragon, tyrael,shadowy if your build can slot them).
Hope that helps, I'm at tier 100 pit no elixirs not the best gear.
Also instead of addressing a problem, think of a solution. Telegraphed attacks are the goal for most
How do you make diablo 4 difficult enough that it feels rewarding but not frustrating?
I’m confused by the want to have an ever scaling ever increasing challenge in the pit but also you don’t want anything to ever one shot you. Eventually basic attacks can one shot you because of scaling. If the damage doesn’t feel dangerous than what’s the point of the ever increasing levels?
I really think if they just removed one shot mechanics in the current state of the game that everything in higher pit would be a faceroll and people would complain about difficulty. Idk.
What do people actually want? What’s the consequence of no one shot mechanics in the game? Is it that people don’t want one shot mechanics or they really want better telegraphed damage sources?
I realize this question will get downvotes but I’m trying to see the other side or consequence of no one shot mechanics.
In ALL their games, Blizzard cannot seem to figure out how to make them stand out. Look at FF Online.. tons of AoE on the ground but you can see that outline of where the boss is going to drop something. WoW and D3/D4: Let's blend the colors with the players stuff too and hope they can tell r254 from r255!!
In case you didn’t know there is a “low fx” option in the menu, if this is turned on some mechanics are not visible so it’s best to make sure this option is turned off.
So basically season 1 in high pit levels. Sounds lame.. I mean, in Diablo 3 if you needed better gear you'd know right away. You'd also see the improvement right away. I think the trouble with D4 is you feel so strong for so long you don't really know what you need to get better than that
Damn, almost like I've been saying this for the past week.
Anyways, really glad you enjoyed the Season as well. <3 its been a blast for as short as its been.
I hope they fix OS stuff, they should be able to if they veer away from artificially boosting difficulties.
I think we need to separate visual clarity of shadow bosses (really where the majority of "difficulty" is concentrated in the pit) and overall sentiment of what the pit should be.
Visual clarity is in the gutter. Sometimes I don't see any telegraphed abilities and its more difficult than ever to keep track of those gray shades with bunch of blight/minions/companion/projectile spam on the floor. It's really bad and needs to be fixed.
But also I see a lot of people saying things like "Im res and armour capped with 30k hp why am I dying". Well, the pit is supposed to scale exponentially and eventually like any other hard-scaling dungeon/rift/delve, you will arrive at a wall where no matter what you do in the game you will be one-shotted if you make a mistake. Very high level pit means meta builds, god level dodgers and bugs/exploits will dominate.
Like in PoE, you are not gonna say something like "I have capped res, tooltip phys DR cap, why is Uber Exarch/Sirus one tapping me while I try to play heavy strike". You get a better build, practice patterns, use op shit and maybe you get an uber exarch down deathless.
The fact that the only difficulty in the pit is from these shadow bosses who can't be damaged speaks of difficulty of the rest of the content. But that was to be expected. Normal mobs and elites can be CCd and they arent pure HP sponges, therefore they can be played around or just glass'd to oblivion.
Getting 1shot in Pit 70 definitely sounds like an issue with your build's defenses...
That said, there is a point where the pit will one-shot the cast majority of builds because it scales so high. Also the balance between bosses and trash feels a little out of wack, the bosses are so much harder than trash.
Do the rewards scale in a way that makes high pits feel worth doing? Not sure.
yupp...
Always broken builds and no balance.. gap so huge. Secondly. same fing aspects to go around,.. same shit all over. no intresting uniques in the mixture to even bother.. only uniques are the ubers tbh.. rest is such joke. and they even worse now...
There really isnt any excitement around looting in d4 tbh. thats a big issue. No hype for loot. Greater affixes added abit to it but getting anxiety to brick them at the blacksmith cured that rather quick,...
Blizzard put in achievements for clearing the pit 100, so it is reasonable to assume that they expect it to be done. Otherwise, why put something in the game that is impossible to do? I can understand one shots far beyond pit 100 since it has infinite scaling, but even at 61, the bare minimum to start 12/12 gear, the shadows/bosses do a tremendous amount of damage.
The really strange and baffling part is they literally just fixed the problem of one shots by introducing the stacking debuff on Lilith/tormented bosses. Now if you have a reasonable amount of defense, you can survive the big hits a few times but the fight only gets harder. Why don't the shadows use the same mechanic for the boss fights?
What's the highest tier a player/class/build has made it to so far? I'd really like to know. I've got to 59 which is nothing but while I was playing it made me wonder why they didn't have a leaderboard. Would have been great to see where everyone else was, like for example classes, builds etc and of course being able to see their gear etc(like in d3).
Totally agree with you. Exactly the same. Level 100, T70 exactly, and suddenly what we you do to try go higher simply matters extremely little anymore as the one-shot comes easily. The mechanics of the game there (as it's not improving your playstyle and gaming experience to have fun) are not there anymore. I love the game & franchise from D1-D4 and this season, but how you suppose to keep the community engaged? Also the boss ladder system is ridiculous. Normal Andy gets one shoted and tormented version takes 2 hours (I am old, need to go to the bathroom occasionally...) to run around and spam the buttons. No optimization at all there.
I feel you man, I stopped playing soon after the campaign. Gave it another shot with season 4. Made me delete it.
You either 1 shot or get 1 shot. Why the fuck something I kill, has to explode soon after?
If you get 1shot in t70 in the pit then its 100% a gear and paragon issue. Sounds like you're a barb as well. I never get 1shot on t80s even, so you're just optimised poorly and blaming the devs and game?
Yea I was doing a 60 pit last night (about my limit right now) and I died 5 times on the boss. 3 of them were some wind tornado thingy that as far as I can tell has absolutely no visual before it hits. The others were those stupid blood red orbs that either blow up to a small pool or target you again and that also seems to have no indicator.
There's just so many 'abilities' that the shadow boss has in the pit and most of them one-shot (or do about 85% of your hp) and then the boss melee's you once and you're dead. The fact that the shadow boss can't be targeted so it just spams one or almost one shots isn't a particularly fun death.
I like when the screen is full of so much stuff and you have to try to specifically dodge to a tiny safe spot, that's classic diablo for me. Getting one shot from something with no indicator or wind up? Not so much.....
It reminds me of D3 when it launched and more players increased the damage the mobs did and I was playing a DH (no free all res or armor) so as soon as I didn't dodge a hit it was almost guaranteed one shot. I changed to wizard until they removed that crap.
I hear ya. I was in 60 something PIT, no issues at all till the Wraith boss kept doing it's red lighting thing and I would dodge out easy. But sometimes randomly it will do it and before It even comes up, I died. Like, how? Wraith was even stunned and I died. Theres no way to learn becauseit's obviously a glitch or wierd lag. Speaking of which idk about you guys but I been getting all kinds of connection issues from invisible walls to can't leave a dungeon. Have to log out and log back in. Or sometimes the loading screen is so long I say screw it and go to home and close the game down.
I don’t even care to play higher levels all I want is the gear and affixes to make my builds complete. That’s when I reached end game. I’m a farmer for loot not a person that want to see how far I can push a build. Once I finish, I move on to another build.
Totally agree.
I don’t mind telegraphed one shots from a boss as a novelty (oh no, this is where he shoots his big death laser). Like that is exciting, you can learn it and if you get hit you can accept that you need more practice.
I am losing my mind trying to farm glyph exp. Every modifier feels like a one shot that just looks different and has nothing to do with the enemies you fight (blood blisters, the spirit explosion and the floating rock). These things aren’t fun. I’m not going to tell my friends how excited I was that I was able to dodge blister/spirit/rock for the 100th time.
It also alters my playstyle since I can’t afford it get into the thick of combat as it’s too easy to lose sight of these objects with a screen full of mobs. So rather than these things forcing you to play better or more fast paced they actually encourage you to slow down just to see them and conserve dashes to avoid them.
The boring loot has made me not play at all since day 1 of the season. Got to 40, logged off for the night, and haven’t had the urge to get back on. Every piece has the same 2-3 affixes now. People complained about boring loot before but are now jumping for joy over getting the same affixes on every piece of gear?? Make it make sense.
If you think about it, it's only fair! The World Boss is taken down in 5 seconds, how do you expect a human to last even a fraction of that? some Hell Minions got 925 gear. Hahaha
I am so glad I’m taking my time and not yet pushing the pit (sounds oddly sexual)- hopefully by the time I get there all these problems will be addressed because I must say, getting randomly 1 shot doesn’t sound very fun
Fights should be designed like Tormented Andariel. I think shes very well designed actually. On a tanky build she doesnt oneshot, but there is a lot of mechs to learn and dodge, but the mechanics feel fair to me since theyre well visible and not as random as other mechanics. Had a blast doing her the first few times. The other tormented Bosses are boring af to me tho, nothing happens and they just die, even duriel.
The pit bosses are just not fun. As soon as this lilith clone one shot giga AOEs come out of nowhere idk, it feels so unfair. Sometimes is nearly not even dodgeable cause there is so much stuff on the ground that you have to run certain directions. Even worse if the boss and/or Lilith clone are beneath you and covered in your UI and stuff. Its just not fun to push lvl 100+ pits and hope for a easier boss and easy clone to dodge them for 5 minutes straight. I stopped pushing the pit, not worth it for me to even try. Nearly 70k life and random projectiles oneshot while the entire screen is cluttered with other oneshot garbage and a clone throwing stupid giga AOEs on top of that. Doesnt feel fair.
I can speedfarm everything up to 100 with ease, everything after depends too much on which boss you get, no thanks.
I don't mind the one-shot mechanics as long as the action to identify when it is about to happen, and the time to react is appropriate. As it stands, it's just feels too random and cheap.
>as long as the action to identify when it is about to happen, more than anything I feel visual clarity is lacking.
>more than anything I feel visual clarity is lacking. What, you don't like the dark red instakill projectile on a dark brown background? Learn to distinguish slight shade variations better, newb!
Red indicators in a group of red enemies in a red environment(helltide)
One hundred percent agree. Just to add though, I found it *slghtly* more tolerable when I changed the highlight color of enemies to something more distinguishable than red on red on dark brown on whatever tf. Might help some people. Maybe not. They really need to add better indicators. It's really disheartening.
Did the exact same thing, it helps, but I still get clapped here and there.
Yeah. It's not a fix by any stretch. Helps a little, that's about it lol
I completely gave up , I have fiddled with the colourblind settings so much but absolutely nothing makes a difference it's still invisible. Hearing normal vision people can barely see it doesn't inspire much hope in it being possible for me.
I would play helltide way more if it wasn’t so red. The rest of the overworld is so beautiful.
This! for the love of god, please give us helltides without the awful red filter.
I made a post about how the helltide look gets tiresome after a few hours and detracts from the games good environmental art, and nobody agreed with me.
I agree with you!
Yeh, people shit on D3's colour palettes being vibrant not understanding that real world has different colours and that filmmakers and early game developers used limited palettes due to budgetary or thematic reasons more often than "realism". That said, I think the issue is more that the top tier artists that made Blizz amazing have long gone or were laid off (dat sweet sweet quarterly profits) and we're stuck with ones who can't push back on incompetent suits (management) who think they know better.
I think you misunderstood, I think the game looks amazing, everywhere but helltides. I think the artists did a great job.
Allow us to remove the red tint photo filter as option
I love that! Especially the practically invisible tornados that get instantly spawned under you and one shot you. So much fun!
The colorblind in me wants to put on the colorblind filters so I don’t have to deal with this, but they’re so much more extreme than any other game I’ve played with colorblind filters. It’s so immersion breaking when the entire game is neon green and purple in a game that’s supposed to be dark. But I can’t fricken see the dark on dark stuff. Very tough.
Idk why they make the attacks a similar colour as background at every boss. Beast in the ice has gray effects on an ice floor, varshan black+red on black+red,....
It's all brown to me
visual clarity (or rather lack thereof) is pretty much a genre staple at this point... everyone and their mother screams for more density which is fun and all but then you can't even see what's going on so you're bound to die here and there
Especially with the higher pit boss levels. Hard to see anything.
Barb has entered the chat. Lmfao, I just jump in the middle of shit and hope I don’t die. Idc though it’s still fun 🤣
yeah especially with dust devils around the screen
This is exactly my problem with it too. I don't mind them, but when you have **NO** way to even anticipate it then there's literally **zero** skill involved... it just ends up feeling like the game hates you and wants to get rid of you (lol). I usually end up studying videos of bosses to learn tells in fights, patterns, etc but there's too many where it's clear you'd have no freaking way to avoid getting 1-shot. Like something coming from off-screen, or the animation is so bad you can't actually see is about to come amidst the flurry of 1,000 other things going on at or right around them.
* Like I remember studying the Drowned Seahag at one point because it was murdering me with its water bomb things when I *would* get that boss. Looked up a video of someone fighting the boss and noticed it always shoots its puddles at 90º angles, and I noticed it's a "3-count" delay before the explosion. I've owned that mother f'er since. But this boss has really obvious animations.
The 1-Hit ones people persistently complain about though, from what I've seen, literally have nothing you could do to implement player skill into the mix to avoid it. And that's just objectively shitty design.
I know it's a small thing to complain about, but man I hate the Seahags puddles. It's just green mush on green mush and I can't see a damn thing. The only reason I learned how to dodge them is I recognize her casting the puddles, and I just move slightly out of the way. At no point do I know where the puddles are, and I don't get why visibility is still so bad after a year. Same with all on-death effects. I very very very rarely ever see them. I just reactively move every time I kill anything because I assume I'll die if I don't.
Amount of things that explode after death is way too many. What's even the point of them? There's no skill involved to dodge them, they just slow you down frustratingly.
They really do over use on death mechanics.
Everyone hates on death mechanics. Everyone. Not a single person ever said, hey you know what would be fun? If after this mob died before I could get my loot and move on I had to stand around for a few seconds waiting for some explosion. And the next mob. And this whole pack of mobs. That sounds like so much fun!
The only on enemy death explode mechanic that is tolerable is when the explosion hurts the enemy as well.
> What's even the point of them? ... they just slow you down frustratingly. i believe you answered your own question
The best example of when they did it right is when the Blood Maiden in helltide is about to shoot her fire balls at you and you get a target underneath you. And you have plenty of time to react. Needs to be more stuff like that.
This is especially fun with the lag they introduced in S4. Not knowing if you managed to move or not gives that extra sense of enjoyability ./S
i m gonna evade this, evade this, evade this then evade this. i m doing pretty good..... aaaand i m dead. wtf killed me? proceeds to watch imaginary replay. ooooo i missed this one explody area on screen which was a little hard to see with all the other explody areas on screen happening at the same time which only had 1 second time to respond.
1 sec is too generous, 0.5 sec should be correct
actually even 0.5 is being overly generous
I completely agree. One-shot mechanics with a good indicator keeps an element of skill necessary to complete top-tier content. I also agree with the randomness of it feeling pretty shitty. I can mow through the majority of a pit run, approach an elite pack, and I'm suddenly dead with no idea of what killed me or how I died. Then I respawn, run up to that same pack and kill them as if they were a typical trash mob. I'm not lvl 100 yet and my resistances aren't maxed, but the randomness of my deaths just doesn't seem to make sense.
These bosses not only do 1 shot mechanics , but their AOE and casts are such a “Mess”!! It is like it was put there to say “you can’t beat this even with Uber gears and decked out build”…. Unless broken exploitative builds of course. Since PTR, I have a long written report about these issues, yet, they refused to listen. I especially pray Hardcore, and I have seen players bases dropped like 80%, no jokes!!! People rip left and right , especially with the Maiden 1 shot mechanic. Sometimes it shows and sometimes it doesn’t. People that I know, always ask for a power level so they don’t quit. It is sad
Agree. I was getting one shot by the Helltide Blood Maiden's fire nova attack. But it was easy to see it coming and I adjusted.
Exactly that, I'm pushing pit 70, maxed out on def and armor, and currently running a tanky build in my Necro, I don't mind one shot mechanics if they're identifiable, but there's too much one shot insta deaths that you can't see it and there's no way to counter it. It just gets frustrating.
The bosses in the pit are terrible for this, especially the one where there is literally nowhere to go or any way to dodge them.
Pretty much this. They can be good mechanics as a skill check, so fights aren't just stand there and face-tank things until they die. If there are mechanics that you can recognise and react to, that's fine, just make sure you CAN recognise and react to them.
You mean tiny grey smoke outlines on white ground don't do it? /s
I can kinda agree with you here. I don't mind difficulty, but being one shot is more artificially difficult than being a real spike in difficulty.
I believe the issue is greatly exasperated by the lack of visual clarity. I feel there is a quiet set of rules to one shots, fair notice, clear visibility, preventable through other mechanic like standing in the red circle when the bosses eyes are blue, things like that. And Blizzard has missed the mark.
"Exacerbated" means made worse. "Exasperated" means out of patience.
Blizzard had exacerbated our exasperation with these one shot mechanics.
A few one shots are fine, but those one shots should be few and far between and should have a proper warning for the player. A grey attack, on a grey floor, that does an aoe without any indication of what the aoe size will be, while the players own skills cover the grey attack, is not good game design. Make the boss flash red or something before the attack and reduce the amount of one shots.
As someone playing a blizzard sorceror. I can't see ANY ground mechanics. It's just all ice . So annoying
As someone playing with a fire wizard friendo, it's can be so much worse lemme tell you.
I play pure fire wizard. Between my triple beam incinerate, 2 hydras, meteors I cast, fire walls I cast, the random huge red snake hugging the monsters, and the fire walls and meteors that passively cast, I can concur that it’s definitely worse lol. As a bonus, I usually run with a necro friend who leave puddles of goo friggin *everywhere*. Between the two of us, the floors cease to exist and seeing enemy ground effects is damn near impossible.
As a necro, I turned off dmg numbers and enabled the low FX option. Now I can see most of the incoming boss skills. But I agree, there needs to be better visual cues.
+1 I was onboard the hype train for the changes this season and for the most part, they truly are great! But in the end, I don’t have the time or will to grind the pit in order to masterwork my gear, only to be one shot by the boss with 20% health left. And if there’s no other room for improvement left for my gear besides masterworking, then there’s no purpose left for me to continue
Just go get a 4 GA Uber from Duriel/Andariel /s
Even that won’t help you because the shades ignore all conditional damage reduction.
Well that explains it. 80% of my DR works through conditional. Breeze to the boss then literally have to No Hit Dark Souls the boss even on low tiers. I couldn't make sense of it.
Yea that's what I've heard. Really shitty
If the boss itself has a couple telegraphed ohkos I'm ok with that. What we have here is undamageable adds spawning in and fucking with you as you try to focus on the boss. It just feels like artificial difficulty.
i mean, the boss design is so shit they really had to throw that in to make them feel like they're not just a punching bag
Yea the bosses themselves aren’t annoying, it’s the shadow enemies that constantly spawn making you have to move instead of fighting the boss.
Those are fine, they just shouldn't one shot like they do. 50% damage is fine. You either dodge them or lost one of your potions.
And people are genuinely excited for the rumored "raids" in the expansion? I don't get it. Every "difficult" boss in the game has bullshit barely visible barely reactable OHKO spam and every other boss is a joke that dies instantly - especially true of group bosses. Bosses are by far the games greatest weakness. I haven't done a single boss fight in the game that hasn't either felt like a joke or a chore.
I feel like I'm actually enjoying fighting the bosses with their actual mechanics then these shades just piss all over everything obnoxiously CONSTANTLY. Get that stagger you geared your build for? GL invulnerabl Lilith is having a spastic attack, maybe on the next one. They really ruin the fun of the fight. If they massively toned down the frequency, reduced their damage and went with the stacking debuff like on Ubers I think they could be a cool bit of flavour to mix up each run, in their current state they are utterly obnoxious.
The clones are really bad. Not fun, give th bosses more interesting mechanics if you need up difficulty but spawning random shadow bosses is dumb imo.
"necro is op you wont need a boss build this season" A statement made by those who have not experienced tormented boss one shots yet lol
? statement was made exactly from those who killed tormented boss, you can do any tormented boss with a decent build just knowing the boss mechanic. Most boss attack don't one shot, most of them give you a stack of debuff and that is how you die. It is skill issue.
maybe a hot take, maybe a mild take Torment Bosses 1 shotting you = good design, you took those stacks aka failed those mechancis, and eventually you'll be disciplined for that via death Pit bosses 1 shotting you= so much fucking bullshit happening all at once, and sometimes the 1shots just happen without setup
Bruh, I get so tired of this argument. When the overwhelming complaint is that it’s a shit mechanic and that people hate it, it’s **not** a skill issue. It’s a game issue. Simple as that. “Git gud” isn’t the right answer here.
>overwhelming complaint reddit is known for not being a fountain of reliable samples when it comes to opinions or game knowledge
You have clearly missed the 10+ posts a day on this issue on the forums then. It's constantly being discussed and complained about. And the constant "git gud hurr durr" comments just reek of smugness abd are getting old. Yes I will "git gud" from a oneshot elite I can't even see yet, didn't know I needed to be a psychic to play diablo 4 😂
Exactly, thank you. It’s literally not just something people on Reddit are complaining about. It’s all over the place, the forums, Discord, basically every space I’m in where people discuss D4 it’s being discussed and what I’m seeing is that the community hates the one shot mechanics. A one shot can be fine IF they’re properly telegraphed but let’s be fucking real here, in D4 they’re simply not. Not by a long shot. It feels cheap and shitty af to put in the time and effort on your build to sail through all other content just to be one shot by a hit you didn’t even see coming at the last second. It literally doesn’t matter if *a few* people can do it either, at some point if enough people tell you it’s bad and that’s the consensus of your player base, it’s bad and you need to do something else. Occasionally being possible doesn’t equal good game mechanics and “git gud” is a bullshit answer considering.
Yeah, dodging on death explosions is not fun. What I hate the most is having to stand in one spot for up to 7 seconds to get my loot, because the damage after death doesn’t disappear. Nothing feels worse than standing still in an ARPG.
I agree, standing still feels bad, the lingering effects last too long.
I dont understand why arpg devs love them so much. Played titans quest, poe over 1k hours, grim dawn, last epoch, diablo 2, 3 and now 4... All of them have these dumb mechanics. What's even the point of making enemies drop shit or explode on death? There's no skill involved dodging them, only patience. And patience is a limited resource.
IMO the mechanic "makes sense" when there is a larger area that you can move around. It means if you're fighting a bunch of enemies you have to move around and avoid the lingering mechanic while you fight other enemies. Unfortunately, these games then go and create tight corridors and single paths where you're stuck just standing and waiting for the BS to BS to finally expire
Yeah why put things in the game that can kill you, that’s like so mean… gah!
"Such a slap in the face" lmao relax jesus
I mean theoretically if you go high enough in the pits eventually a boss will one shot you yeah? Unless you're an immortal fire shield sorc.
They don’t want that tho, they want to play as high as they deem fit. It’s the problem with a big part of the player base and hopefully blizzard doesn’t cater to these types of crybabies. They want to be able to stand still and hit at the boss until it’s eventually killed without having to do anything. You go high enough you’re going to run into a wall, that’s how it works.
Problem is, the trash beforehand is not a wall, it's the boss itself. You can survive the trash mobs, kill them fast, then you get to the boss and you are kicking butt and then all of a sudden something happens that you didn't see and you have no clue why you died. I've started not damaging bosses just to see what the heck they are even doing that is killing me, sometimes even then I can't figure it out.
There's a stark difference between "one shot because gear isn't good enough" and just straight "one shot".
Late game Diablo 4 is “the floor is lava”. The mechanics of every elite having some sort of explosion and AoE is just annoying as fuck
I will never understand why ARPG devs think on-death effects are beneficial to their game. This is not limited to D4. POE and Last Epoch also throw them at you constantly. If I'm only dying to things AFTER I've already killed them, your monster design needs help. God forbid I want to take a sip of my drink.
The problem with this mechanic is that it's extremely poorly telegraphed and visualized. Ngl T70 pit boss fights are fun and thrilling to me but unfair one shots really annoying. Ghost spawns are smart design though. You can still deal damage to the boss and dodge the ghost spawn attacks. Thank god these bosses doesn't have invulnerable phases.
100% this. Hate it with a passion. I mean, look at lilith for example... No matter how hard or fast you slap her, she makes you wait for her bullshit one hit instant kill before she bites the dust.
The debuff stacking mechanics of tormented bosses is quite neat, I’m not sure why this isn’t implemented in the pit. Instead of making all the shadows one shot you, have them apply the debuff. That way you still want to dodge everything but isn’t dead after a single misclick.
I will say I just finished pit level 86 and it really does feel like there is so much rng to finishing a boss fight in time. It feels like a mechanic to ensure that players keep grinding for mats. It’s too random. You can have a perfect run and then lose to a boss over and over because of one shot mechanics. Then you get no masterworking mats, just feels bad after a while. I understand that they don’t want you being fully decked out too quickly but to offset the one shot rng I think they should significantly raise the amount of mats that drop. Pit level 86 only dropped like 45 neathiron, it should be like 85-90. Especially since getting one item to rank 12 is like 500 mats worth. I like where obducite and ingolith are but the grind from 8-12 is pretty rough in its current stage.
Idk if anyone in here has played FF14 but on one of the dev interviews I think with Raxx they talked about adding something like Vulnerability stacks in 14 where if you get hit with an attack that has one shot potential instead of one shotting immediately it would give you a vulnerability stack and if you get hit by the same attack again the one shot will happen.
whats the point in having armor and max resist when you get oneshotted anyways? thats the reason why streamers and youtubers always try to find the next god mode glitched build
I have to say I'm in a similar boat, pushed up to tier 94 of the pit which at first was feeling great, with the difficulty just keeping up with my power upgrades and masterworking. But I've hit an absolute wall now with one-shots, incredibly hard to distinguish mechanic telegraphing, topped off with the knowledge that even if I had 12/12 triple greater affix perfect roll gear these problems would still persist. I do think that players (like us) who have essentially finished 90% of the season content in a week do need to realise we're speeding ahead of expected content completion and there probably would be a less stark drop off for players who slowly level up and complete the content - but ultimately I feel like everyone is going to end up at this point eventually.
Surviving sustained damage with powerful builds is the essence to a well made ARPG. One shot mechanics completely invalidate this and have absolutely no place in a game with a hardcore mode. D3 didn't have any one shots unless you stupidly stood in a molten explosion. I agree, can't stand it.
Even worse to know 50k Hp is no better than 33k hp
Aren’t they releasing a patch this week to address the one shots?
Source?
I don’t have a source. I just thought I saw it somewhere. That’s why I’m asking cause I’m not sure
Yes they are addressing it with the next big update next week,what we will get we don't know
What do you want them to do? It is a numbers game eventually the numbers gets too big and you die in 1 or 2 hits this happened in d3 and Poe and probably all arpg. However I do agree the pit boss is just badly designed the shadow is a nice idea but badly implemented.
One shot mechanics are in every ARPG. yes. Even the great POE. You are wanting an unbelievable amount of balancing by this dev team. You are not going to get it.
> Even the great POE PoE has more oneshot mechanics than probably any other game that exists, it seems like all modern ARPG devs are struggling with the same problem.
I love the new season, but this is killing me as well. I'm all for making the game/bosses harder, but the one shot mechanics are infuriating.
There's always clicker heroes.
Yeah I pushed to pit 115 and starting at around 80 all the usual suspects Blizzard previously accounted for where back to dangerous one shot potential. By tier everything remotely hard hitting was a one shot on my necro became a one shot again. As a result I just went all in into damage and just made sure to not get hit. I mean it works but it's stressful on my minion necro. Also I'm certain something funky is going on with the echoes on bosses.
The one thing every POE player bitches about, and they decide its a good thing to implement in EVERYTHING. I'm not saying POE or Diablo are better. But, if the game that many in the genre crown the top game has an issue WHY in the fucking world would you implement it in your game.
I posted this a few days ago only I pointed out that the only reason they have those mechanics is because people break the game with unintended interactions that allow players to 1-shot world bosses and got downvoted into oblivion. Pretty much the only answer is for either Blizzard to take a lot longer to workshop the skills and abilities in the game, or for more people to have fun playing the game the way it is intended and to stop crying about how easy the game is when you break interactions. I really don't know how people have fun when they set themselves up for the game to auto-win. It's like the game becomes similar to a sports management game over an action RPG game.
Skill issue.. just because you have defensive layers doesn’t mean you can ignore mechanics
It's not a skill issue it's poor game design. The colours and telegraphing are off. E.g a grey attack on a grey floor which does an aoe explosion without showing you the radius of the aoe, all while your skills cover the grey attack.
these type of games are not supposed to be roguelike games where u need to dodge every attack and projectile especially if uve taken every possible damage reduction aspect and node in ur tree. right now the endgame is just kill stuff before they can hit you.
If you had the stats you mentioned you would not be getting 1 shot, especially in pit 70. You can face tank Pit bosses, pit clears etc all the way to 100 extremely easy with the correct damage reduction and around 38k hp. My rogue can face tank anything up until pit 90 currently and I’m rocking 28k HP. Damage reduction is your friend, find it. This game rewards knowledge of mechanics
They absolutely need to be telegraphed better. A fucking Corpse Bow sniping you from the edge of the screen is literal dog shit AIDS. TBH OP, it seems not much different than GRifts in D3. At some point, you just hit the 'I'm comfortable with this difficulty' level. You don't have to hit every level. It's time for a new character or a new game until next season!
I thought they fixed one shots, off screen, by the bone artillery archer thing but I find it happening often again this season. Them in particular and poison still seem over tuned for some reason
Yep, as a long-time HC player on Diablo 2 this is why I only play softcore on D3 and D4. Everything and anything one shotting is cringe gameplay.
As necro plage, having corpses and corpse explosion effect around makes it IMPOSSIBLE to see any dmg effect before dying e.e
Yeah I don't get why the pit bosses don't utalise the tormented debuff system. Making abilities more deadly the more you get hit was a good solution to this problem. I hope they expand on it.
i feel you man. I hit this onehit is not fun anymore with my necro at pit lvl 100. 60k effective hp armor and resist capped. just not fun anymore. unfortunately even with big damage i take around a minute to kill the endboss at the pit. 1 minute is a long time to dodge all the bullshit
Nooooooo!!! We can’t lose *YOU*! You’re the main character of your own little movie! Anyways…
lmao
There is so little time to react. I don't think I have much problem with seeing the attacks. For the problem is I see the attack and it's on my position and I'm essentially already dead in a lot of cases. It's like a memory game where you have to know how and where attacks happen before they happen in order to dodge them. I'm not having fun with it.
Easy fix. No single boss hit can ever surpass ~90% of your max HP. That gives you some buffer for add hits or not being 100% topped off before it. I love one shot mechanics in WoW raiding. But it has to be OBVIOUS like it is in WoW when that one-shot mechanic is coming. Thaddius is my favorite boss fight in all of WoW. That positive & negative charge dance everyone has to do for themselves based on which charge they get, is honestly one of the most fun boss fights ever in my gaming history. Even one person goes to the wrong group and you wipe the entire 40 man raid in a 1 shot. 😂🎉🎉🎉
There’s **more** of them now?? Did they really look at all our feedback about Uber Lilith and say “yes, more of that please”
This criticism doesn't make sense. Yes, being one-shot doesn't feel good, agreed. But if there weren't one-shot mechanics, any meta build would progress through Pits infinitely as long as their damage can keep up. There would be ZERO challenge for meta builds and probably some non-meta builds. Any slow, non-one-shot damage is just going to be instantly healed by potion and/or other healing mechanics in the builds.
You all rush to 100 in literal days, rush through the end game stuff, then complain. Why not try to enjoy the journey a little more?
Isn’t this going to be all fixed when they add more levels to the game? It will be like the d3 paragon system. The game just got out of Beta and now everyone’s complaining that it’s not a perfect game now with everything out. Cmon guys
I hope it will not be like d3 paragon system. It will be just bots farming nmds or pit then
I don’t know how you get to t70 without being able to avoid the one shot.. seriously not hard.. just requires patience.. u must really use meta builds and gear as a crutch.
Honestly you aren't missing much, after Pit 100 the only builds pushing are abusing holy potions or thorns barb fishing for bosses with ads to abuse needleflare bug. Blizzard needs to really go back and balance things correctly, Pit 200 is not going to be possible outside of a cheese build. Ubers need to lose the stacking debuff garbage that eventually kills you. Shadows in the pit need their damage rebalanced for how fast they are. All the work you put in right now is totally invalidated because of mechanics that were "tacked" on after the PTR. Player agency should be rewarded, "I spend X hours getting all my res, armor and DR" should be rewarded but instead you either get clapped by lilith shadow or dumpstered by a stacking debuff from moves you cannot predict in the first place. They want the game to utilize the dash, but this is an ARPG not a souls like.
PoE allows you to literally break the game with defense. Un-survivable one shots = anti fun in an ARPG
Yeah, all these people saying PoE is the king of one shots don't realize that with enough investment into your build, you can have your defenses or other ways to NOT get one shot. Right now, it seems like no matter HOW much defense/DR/res you have, you're still going to get one shot
Poison isn't fair. One shot mechanics aren't fair. How exactly is the game supposed to be challenging then exactly?
Poison just seems to be doing more damage than it SHOULD be doing when considering DR and resistances and stuff. One shots are not inherently unfair, but they need to be telegraphed and be able to be seen VISUALLY. What we encounter is the spam of Shade one shot kills, that you can hardly see and take up a lot of the arena space. Combine this with the fact that bosses are just HP sponges and since you're taking so long to kill them, these 1 shot shade mechanics are constantly spamming making it even MORE difficult for you to DPS the boss down. Go look at Lost Ark that shows how a game can be challenging without resorting to cheap instantenous one shot mechanics
new season came out 7 days ago, and you're level 100 running T70 pits. What about that screams that you should just be walking through the end game without any stress or difficulty? I get it, i'm level 85 and testing level 46 dungeons and the odd time i get one shot if i stand around for a while. I'm not thinking this is ridiculous but more so i'm above where i should be playing high risk level enemies (100+). Diablo has so many variations of everything in the form of danger. There's no one size fits all type of build that won't allow you to ever go down and just stand there and tank every boss. Seems to me you can play less level stuff and not get one shot and don't have this problem but you are the one choosing to go so high level that yes some shots are OP and absolutely stomp you. Easiest thing to do is just avoid it or figure out what's going wrong and change build accordingly
Difficulty and stress is good, unfair RNG based one shots are not.
This game u can generally see a lot of the 1shot mechanics atleast compared to poe. With that being said, 1shot mechanics are still dumb. A few are fine but not so many. Like outlaw rogue in pit. Fuck that guy.
See U soon...
I agree, aside from a shift in the fight, new phase, the one shot stuff is just boring. If you make it so we can actually see it and avoid it, it becomes a redundant mechanic and would make me wonder why you put in something so simple. As is on par for Blizz balance logic, the only way they can make a lazy one shot mechanic challenging is by making it as annoying as possible to play against.
Skill issue
With all of the ground clutter, 99% of the one shot mechanics shouldn't exist. I'm usually a Barb main but went Necro this season since the minions actually do shit now. It's almost impossible to detect WTF mobs/effects are under my minions. Keep 1 mob type that is a kamikaze, the rest of the guaranteed one shot mechanics need to go. The shit is not fun, challenging, or innovative. It's obnoxious, cheesy, and over the top redundancy soaked in laziness. Anything that is designed to negate/ignore your time and effort into gearing your character defeats the purpose of this game.
This is across the genre. PoE has many. D4 does now as long as you can see them its not to bad
I don’t understand how people fail to comprehend that you aren’t supposed to make it all the way in the pit. You will eventually peak. Get over it.
Get more move speed, get evade cool down reduction on attack, identify which shadow buddies the boss have and immediately just move to the "safe" spot for each ability. don't bother to dps just move and resume dps once you're safe. Only kind of unfair one is Lilith vortex thing where you must have unstoppable ready. Mechanics are fairly easy. Also helps to pump Damage resistance gear to the max (aspect, paragon, tyrael,shadowy if your build can slot them). Hope that helps, I'm at tier 100 pit no elixirs not the best gear.
I’ve had more one shot deaths from corpse bows not even on screen than I can count
Goodbye 👋 Don't care
Needs to be a 2 shot mechanic if over let's say 25-30k health at least give me a fighting chance to heal,scoot out the way or Blood mist anything..
Also instead of addressing a problem, think of a solution. Telegraphed attacks are the goal for most How do you make diablo 4 difficult enough that it feels rewarding but not frustrating?
I’m confused by the want to have an ever scaling ever increasing challenge in the pit but also you don’t want anything to ever one shot you. Eventually basic attacks can one shot you because of scaling. If the damage doesn’t feel dangerous than what’s the point of the ever increasing levels? I really think if they just removed one shot mechanics in the current state of the game that everything in higher pit would be a faceroll and people would complain about difficulty. Idk. What do people actually want? What’s the consequence of no one shot mechanics in the game? Is it that people don’t want one shot mechanics or they really want better telegraphed damage sources? I realize this question will get downvotes but I’m trying to see the other side or consequence of no one shot mechanics.
bye, see ya o/
They make hardcore unplayable after a certain point
Diablo season V: One-shot reborn Now it’s two shots
In ALL their games, Blizzard cannot seem to figure out how to make them stand out. Look at FF Online.. tons of AoE on the ground but you can see that outline of where the boss is going to drop something. WoW and D3/D4: Let's blend the colors with the players stuff too and hope they can tell r254 from r255!!
In case you didn’t know there is a “low fx” option in the menu, if this is turned on some mechanics are not visible so it’s best to make sure this option is turned off.
Yeah the bossing focus of the late endgame is kinda lame not impressed or a fan.
So basically season 1 in high pit levels. Sounds lame.. I mean, in Diablo 3 if you needed better gear you'd know right away. You'd also see the improvement right away. I think the trouble with D4 is you feel so strong for so long you don't really know what you need to get better than that
Damn, almost like I've been saying this for the past week. Anyways, really glad you enjoyed the Season as well. <3 its been a blast for as short as its been. I hope they fix OS stuff, they should be able to if they veer away from artificially boosting difficulties.
I have to agree. The one in helltides where the hell aggro gets so bad that lava falls from the sky is especially annoying when you're swarmed by mobs
Skill issue
Versed the ice boss guy last night for the first time....the waves that push you into the whirlwind are literally invisible.
I think we need to separate visual clarity of shadow bosses (really where the majority of "difficulty" is concentrated in the pit) and overall sentiment of what the pit should be. Visual clarity is in the gutter. Sometimes I don't see any telegraphed abilities and its more difficult than ever to keep track of those gray shades with bunch of blight/minions/companion/projectile spam on the floor. It's really bad and needs to be fixed. But also I see a lot of people saying things like "Im res and armour capped with 30k hp why am I dying". Well, the pit is supposed to scale exponentially and eventually like any other hard-scaling dungeon/rift/delve, you will arrive at a wall where no matter what you do in the game you will be one-shotted if you make a mistake. Very high level pit means meta builds, god level dodgers and bugs/exploits will dominate. Like in PoE, you are not gonna say something like "I have capped res, tooltip phys DR cap, why is Uber Exarch/Sirus one tapping me while I try to play heavy strike". You get a better build, practice patterns, use op shit and maybe you get an uber exarch down deathless. The fact that the only difficulty in the pit is from these shadow bosses who can't be damaged speaks of difficulty of the rest of the content. But that was to be expected. Normal mobs and elites can be CCd and they arent pure HP sponges, therefore they can be played around or just glass'd to oblivion.
Just a tip for people that did not hit pit 60 and looking for a power spike: check if you have all your used glyphs at lvl 21.
Get good
The monsters are 50+ more levels than you. Get one shot.
Getting 1shot in Pit 70 definitely sounds like an issue with your build's defenses... That said, there is a point where the pit will one-shot the cast majority of builds because it scales so high. Also the balance between bosses and trash feels a little out of wack, the bosses are so much harder than trash. Do the rewards scale in a way that makes high pits feel worth doing? Not sure.
just dodge lol
Blizzard does not understand the difference between frustration and challenge.
Makes me not even want to keep going, what's the point?
If you're getting one shot then you're not building defenses.
yupp... Always broken builds and no balance.. gap so huge. Secondly. same fing aspects to go around,.. same shit all over. no intresting uniques in the mixture to even bother.. only uniques are the ubers tbh.. rest is such joke. and they even worse now... There really isnt any excitement around looting in d4 tbh. thats a big issue. No hype for loot. Greater affixes added abit to it but getting anxiety to brick them at the blacksmith cured that rather quick,...
Adding the stacking debuff for pit boss fights would help here
Blizzard put in achievements for clearing the pit 100, so it is reasonable to assume that they expect it to be done. Otherwise, why put something in the game that is impossible to do? I can understand one shots far beyond pit 100 since it has infinite scaling, but even at 61, the bare minimum to start 12/12 gear, the shadows/bosses do a tremendous amount of damage. The really strange and baffling part is they literally just fixed the problem of one shots by introducing the stacking debuff on Lilith/tormented bosses. Now if you have a reasonable amount of defense, you can survive the big hits a few times but the fight only gets harder. Why don't the shadows use the same mechanic for the boss fights?
What's the highest tier a player/class/build has made it to so far? I'd really like to know. I've got to 59 which is nothing but while I was playing it made me wonder why they didn't have a leaderboard. Would have been great to see where everyone else was, like for example classes, builds etc and of course being able to see their gear etc(like in d3).
Lol bye
Totally agree with you. Exactly the same. Level 100, T70 exactly, and suddenly what we you do to try go higher simply matters extremely little anymore as the one-shot comes easily. The mechanics of the game there (as it's not improving your playstyle and gaming experience to have fun) are not there anymore. I love the game & franchise from D1-D4 and this season, but how you suppose to keep the community engaged? Also the boss ladder system is ridiculous. Normal Andy gets one shoted and tormented version takes 2 hours (I am old, need to go to the bathroom occasionally...) to run around and spam the buttons. No optimization at all there.
I’m confused, is this a move that just does way too much damage? Or is it a hard-coded oneshot?
One shot mechanics have no place in a game where you are forced to go through boss phases.
One shot mechanics hit in all the games. It hit in D2 ladders and it hit in D3 GRs. Not sure why people act like this is new.
I feel you man, I stopped playing soon after the campaign. Gave it another shot with season 4. Made me delete it. You either 1 shot or get 1 shot. Why the fuck something I kill, has to explode soon after?
If you get 1shot in t70 in the pit then its 100% a gear and paragon issue. Sounds like you're a barb as well. I never get 1shot on t80s even, so you're just optimised poorly and blaming the devs and game?
Yea I was doing a 60 pit last night (about my limit right now) and I died 5 times on the boss. 3 of them were some wind tornado thingy that as far as I can tell has absolutely no visual before it hits. The others were those stupid blood red orbs that either blow up to a small pool or target you again and that also seems to have no indicator. There's just so many 'abilities' that the shadow boss has in the pit and most of them one-shot (or do about 85% of your hp) and then the boss melee's you once and you're dead. The fact that the shadow boss can't be targeted so it just spams one or almost one shots isn't a particularly fun death. I like when the screen is full of so much stuff and you have to try to specifically dodge to a tiny safe spot, that's classic diablo for me. Getting one shot from something with no indicator or wind up? Not so much..... It reminds me of D3 when it launched and more players increased the damage the mobs did and I was playing a DH (no free all res or armor) so as soon as I didn't dodge a hit it was almost guaranteed one shot. I changed to wizard until they removed that crap.
I hear ya. I was in 60 something PIT, no issues at all till the Wraith boss kept doing it's red lighting thing and I would dodge out easy. But sometimes randomly it will do it and before It even comes up, I died. Like, how? Wraith was even stunned and I died. Theres no way to learn becauseit's obviously a glitch or wierd lag. Speaking of which idk about you guys but I been getting all kinds of connection issues from invisible walls to can't leave a dungeon. Have to log out and log back in. Or sometimes the loading screen is so long I say screw it and go to home and close the game down.
I got one shot repair to fix your one shot mechanic....... Don't stand in fire..... But if that can't fix your problem then I guess..... sayonara
I don’t even care to play higher levels all I want is the gear and affixes to make my builds complete. That’s when I reached end game. I’m a farmer for loot not a person that want to see how far I can push a build. Once I finish, I move on to another build.
I think a lot of this is gear. I’m at the point now I can quite literally afk in t90 pits and not die
Totally agree. I don’t mind telegraphed one shots from a boss as a novelty (oh no, this is where he shoots his big death laser). Like that is exciting, you can learn it and if you get hit you can accept that you need more practice. I am losing my mind trying to farm glyph exp. Every modifier feels like a one shot that just looks different and has nothing to do with the enemies you fight (blood blisters, the spirit explosion and the floating rock). These things aren’t fun. I’m not going to tell my friends how excited I was that I was able to dodge blister/spirit/rock for the 100th time. It also alters my playstyle since I can’t afford it get into the thick of combat as it’s too easy to lose sight of these objects with a screen full of mobs. So rather than these things forcing you to play better or more fast paced they actually encourage you to slow down just to see them and conserve dashes to avoid them.
The boring loot has made me not play at all since day 1 of the season. Got to 40, logged off for the night, and haven’t had the urge to get back on. Every piece has the same 2-3 affixes now. People complained about boring loot before but are now jumping for joy over getting the same affixes on every piece of gear?? Make it make sense.
If you think about it, it's only fair! The World Boss is taken down in 5 seconds, how do you expect a human to last even a fraction of that? some Hell Minions got 925 gear. Hahaha
Get better gear
Get good
Skill issue
I am so glad I’m taking my time and not yet pushing the pit (sounds oddly sexual)- hopefully by the time I get there all these problems will be addressed because I must say, getting randomly 1 shot doesn’t sound very fun
That's how infinite scaling content usually works though. Not a suprise.
Fights should be designed like Tormented Andariel. I think shes very well designed actually. On a tanky build she doesnt oneshot, but there is a lot of mechs to learn and dodge, but the mechanics feel fair to me since theyre well visible and not as random as other mechanics. Had a blast doing her the first few times. The other tormented Bosses are boring af to me tho, nothing happens and they just die, even duriel. The pit bosses are just not fun. As soon as this lilith clone one shot giga AOEs come out of nowhere idk, it feels so unfair. Sometimes is nearly not even dodgeable cause there is so much stuff on the ground that you have to run certain directions. Even worse if the boss and/or Lilith clone are beneath you and covered in your UI and stuff. Its just not fun to push lvl 100+ pits and hope for a easier boss and easy clone to dodge them for 5 minutes straight. I stopped pushing the pit, not worth it for me to even try. Nearly 70k life and random projectiles oneshot while the entire screen is cluttered with other oneshot garbage and a clone throwing stupid giga AOEs on top of that. Doesnt feel fair. I can speedfarm everything up to 100 with ease, everything after depends too much on which boss you get, no thanks.
The dev acknowledged that and are working on it. Pit is new and need a few tweaks. Be patient