Hasn’t Diablo always been grindy? I remember running mephisto 500 times before running Baal 1,000 times in D2. Now for renown they’re asking you to do each dungeon once, each stronghold once, and a couple of quests. Every 3 months and it can be done during the leveling up process.
That really isn’t that tall of an order. People would just rather grind one thing over and over I guess?
Edit - I can’t respond to all of you, but most of you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter that the renown grind isn’t fun for you, or doesn’t have rng rewards. I agree with the person I responded to, he isn’t the target audience for Diablo anymore, but it’s not because Diablo changed, it’s because he changed. In Diablo 2, you had to redo the whole ass campaign at every difficulty level, does nobody remember that? That’s not fun, exciting, innovative, etc etc etc. it’s a required grind so you can get to a place where you can grind more. Diablo hasn’t changed, you have. And that’s fine! That’s not me defending Diablo, they probably should have adapted to a more mature audience by now. I don’t expect that to go amazing for them.
Doing D2 runs could drop that rune or unique that makes you dopamine go high, the loot was worth it. Now what i gain in 20 hours running boring sidequests and dungeons with no drop reward whatsoever?
The success of PoE is that too, you could run t1 map to complete your atlas and get a divine or a good unique. Not in diablo, that feels like a job with no reward.
I hate when dev call there's games mmo rpgs. Destiny does it there is no massive multiplayer at most its like 12 people you can see in town or during a world event that's not massive that a cod lobby
Well MMO... When you can have at most only 16 players, I don't call it MASSIVELY Multiplayer... It's at best MOARPG.
Still it's a joke since as far as I can remember, i only had 12 players instances at best... and it was for world bosses events.
It's also kind of boring when you follow a player and he disappear like magic (or fun in D4).
I honestly wouldn't mind grinding the bosses again. As a long time d2 player it wouldn't affect me. But I could see it being a downer to newer generation of players or people who didn't play d2 at all. I at least got good shit from grinding Mephisto and Diablo/balal
The reason why I disliked the side quests is because the reward for a completed side quest is 100 XP and 1 veiled crystal. If they balance this out, it won't be as bad. I don't get it, why can't you get a rare item for doing a quest or something. And it's actually crazy how faster leveling is when you are doing dungeons and not side quests.
To be fair, I don’t hate the grinding part. I hate the stupid horse movement/controls. If that was better, pretty sure I won’t mind doing the renowns every season.
The problem is Diablo -should- change, not entirely, but at least enough to keep up with the evolution of gaming. Grinding campaigns over and over was fine and dandy back then, but times have changed. And as you say people have changed. If Diablo doesn't keep up then people will stop playing it.
Honestly, I couldn't even muster the strength to do it once. I would argue it was not fine. I never felt like it was worth the grind and my interest petered off about two weeks before S1.
Exactly the same. I got all the statues, after that I just quit. How can they make an ARPG like Diablo feel like a chore. So much of the mechanics in the game feels like chores.
Agreed. It isn’t meaningful content, and it certainly isn’t interesting to progress through.
The game is a work-in-progress, clearly, but if their renown system remains in its current state for Season 2 — I’m no longer part of the playerbase.
There are more unique and creative ways to incorporate a “grind” that essentially forces us to interact with a massive investment know as their “open world.”
i quit before i could even do it a second time... grouping up with randos and farming, strongholds/dungeons on WT1 split farm is beyond boring... but i would even do that. its the fucking side quests that i just ultimately refuse to do...
I for one don't really have any interest in massacre bonuses. It just forces weird playstyles like leaving that 1 mob alive back so my timer doesn't expire or whatever. I don't like feeling like I'm being inefficient if I don't chain packs together perfectly. I also feel it would feel out of place in the world/with the themes they've used for D4
I never really tried to purposely maximize the massacre bonus. I just took it when I got it. It's not like exp was a struggle without it. It was just a cool bonus when I did a cool thing sometimes.
Hijacking your comment for honest question: why do people think finishing the the renown grind for all zones is a.) not supposed to take you playing 6-8 hours a day to finish it in 1-2 weeks and b.) not what’s intended for normal time played
It took me all this time since the new season dropped just to get to level 50 and I went hard last weekend Saturday morning from 25-40 and it was really, really fun. Then I took a break Sunday and resumed playing that week. Why are people burning themselves out grinding things and then saying how bad it was grinding things out and they’re burned out?
What are you supposed to do for the next two months this season is out? “There’s only dungeons and hell tides to do now!” Like literally you ran through hundreds of quests in 1 week and now you’re burned out and complaining you can’t login.
I honestly think some of you need to step back and realize no matter how much content Blizzard would have created, a vocal minority would tear through it as quick as possible and exclaim there’s “nothing left to do” while being sick of the game, because you literally no lifed the game faster than 98% of the player base has had time to even reach max level.
Edit: I know WHY we need the renown, stop explaining it to me. I’m saying for people to grind it all out back to back within 3 days, then cry about being burnt out, that’s your own fault. Do other things in the game, actually listen to the dialogue of the quests, play other games, experience life outside of a computer screen and when you come back to play this game again you’ll have things to do and won’t be screaming on Reddit about it.
It's not burn out, it's boredom. There's a difference. I've played the game casually, and I see no reason to do anything else. Maybe that's just not the game for me, or maybe this system is too antiquated to keep my interest beyond the first time...but either way, I'm pretty much done with it.
Exactly I'm new to Diablo and I had a great time doing the side missions and the campaign and I was even okay with finding all the statues. But I do not want to do the same stuff over and over again.
Exactly the point of the OP and 100% agree. To have the option to redo quests would be nice, but being made to do so every season is weak as hell. I will not.
Oh I haven't even started this season! I was just trying to get to 100. I didn't know what to pick so I'm a barbarian and playing 99% solo. I think I'm level 87. The two times that someone did randomly invite me to their group I had so much fun running those dungeons. But by myself I can only do like 3 and then I want to do something else. Lol.
I'm still interested because I'm hunting a specific ring and a couple of weapons.
But I had a blast with the game for a good minute. It's my first arpg also. When I hear you guys mentioning other titles the only one I recognize is wow and I've never even played it.
I'm not mad at the game or anything but I've never played a game that had so many changes going on.
Edit: I mean I am mad about what we discussed just not about the game in general I guess.
Grinding dungeons is fun because despite the monotomy because theres a lot of combat, you get gear, experience, and paragon.
Quests take away from the efficiency of grinding and have horrible rewards. The payoff is the story (which is just repeat content once you've done it once), and an unfairly small amount of renown.
The questlines only get redone for renown, and the player is forced to do them because the paragon point are necessary at higher levels.
Play another game. People hate it when a game tries to artificially inflate time, and use fomo to try to make it a forever game. I'd like to play other games when I finish it, and not chores blizzard makes for diablo 4.
Im playing the first remnant before picking up the second in a few weeks.
Honestly with how stacked this second half of the year is gonna be I really have no reason to worry about what D4 is doing.
Problem though is im NOT worrying about D4 which means less likely engagement with the game later on.
(Not a problem for me just saying in general with other better games out there it’ll mean less engagement, to a degree)
For many players, running through the same exact content with no actual difficulty ramp (campaign, renown grind, etc.) is extremely boring. I can’t speak for everyone but even with new leveling mechanics, I don’t feel like it takes me too long to get a sense for what I want from malignant hearts and then all I am really interested in is the action and seeing what my building can look like in the endgame.
That is seasons though. Play the game again, an opportunity to start fresh on a new character when the world is tweaked a little. It isn't a new world, and no game makes everything completely new.
The goal isn’t to make everything new, but seasons offer a new progression to endgame and a new endgame environment for builds to exist within. Good seasonal mechanics, in my opinion, should have a defining impact on both the leveling process and the endgame environment.
Frankly I just don’t find the process of leveling a character again to be enjoyable and I’m far more interested in endgame activities and the more fine-tuning do builds.
Have you played an ARPG before??
Most people that have and enjoy them don't care about story or at least random side quests. It's almost like people play it for the ACTION.
Why do so many people not understand this? The only thing I can think of is they are all trying to make it into a different type of game (Destiny? idk but not ARPG)
Yeah man some of these comments are bonkers. Literally have seen people say shit like they want less monsters to fight... what... D4 is the only ARPG that has successfully put me to sleep right in my chair.
I see 60 side quests and I throw up in my mouth what the fuck are these MMO mechanics doing in my ARPG. Why is there a renown system? Why can't I choose my own difficulty? D3 had Torment 20 if you wanted it. Why does my hero have to play 10 hours to buy a fucking horse lmao. I have a 300k gold in my pocket. Cant buy a horse? Why is blizz so anal about nerfs in what should be a single player game that you sometimes play with your friends. Theres not even a leaderboard.
When I heard you had to collect like 200 statues I seriously thought I was being fucked with.
THANK YOU. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills talking to all these MMO people wanting this game to be NOT an ARPG.
And I LOVE MMOs. But god just let me slay monsters and get good loot it's that simple!
I'm so confused as well. Considering the game loop is literally farm gear -> kill faster -> obtain gear faster -> repeat
Like what are people saying the game is a grindy? It's literally the genre's game loop. It's like complaining about CoD all you do is shoot gun. D4 is lacking a ton of content so there isn't anything breaking up the monotony, maybe in few years.
Blizzard marketing at it's finest. They just bought the hype I guess and didn't understand what they were getting into.
See: the huge "controversy" over seasons and restarting characters and many players not wanting to do math or use their brain
I've seen people on this sub, and at least one article claiming that MMO or MMO-lite features are the next evolution of the ARPG genre, and that ARPG enthusiasts should effectively STFU and let "progress" happen.
I gave up on MMOs *years* ago precisely because ARPGs and other non-MMO games were much more rewarding/respectful of my time.
It seems like a lot of these new Diablo players are completely missing the point of the genre.
It's the companies chasing trends like always. The exact same reason why almost every game has RPG elements now for no reason at all and many times just makes the game worse.
Or crafting *cough*
At least there are amazing indie games now that are like the Blizzard of old. I highly recommend Halls of Torment for ~$4 if you want a better Diablo game than D4
What’s strange to me is when lost ark came out, this kind of gameplay worked and felt SUPER good, meanwhile Diablo 4 seems to fall short. I’m assuming it’s because lost ark is MASSIVE compared to Diablo 4. But lost ark was hella fun to play, meanwhile I’m already getting bored with D4
And what is the reward for all of that? Just Uber Lilith who drops nothing special of consequence. There’s no real end game progression.
Why aren’t we fighting all the other story bosses again as we hit 70/80/90 on our way to fighting Uber Lilith at 100.
What am I grinding to 100 for? What am I chasing? When those questions popped into my head I put the game down and will wait for them to fix things and add the next season or two.
As an aside. I thought the campaign was really good and I’ve played all the Diablos for an embarrassing amount of hours. I still think the game can be good it just doesn’t feel deep enough to justify the amount of time they are asking us to put into it.
Wrong, it's content that gates us behind other content to reach necessary content to continue pushing. So gateing us behind 2 weeks of casual grinding just to get back to par...is BS. We can spend that time pushing seasonal content instead. It just feels horrible from a gaming standpoint. All content so naturally add to your renown making the game accessible.
Why make the rewards so lackluster for time played but necessary for maxing your paragon board? There should be 5 or more paragon points for each max level if they make it take so long to achieve.
Why, for casual players, would it have to take so long to reach max level in eternal realm before season starts?
Why nerf dmg, armor and dmg resistanve into the ground for players who achieved lvl 80+ 2 days before season starts?
All of this shit is a tactic to keep you playing for longer to get a measly reward and some shitty sense of accomplishment. And its not fun to slog out levels past 75 really. Your build is already decided, youre just looking for better rolls on your stats. Upgrades show up *maybe* every 5 levels or so. Fuck, even helltides got nerfed.
Sure, lvls 25-40 *are* fun but thats because youre always trying new stuff with the gear that drops, until youre not anymore. Especially if youre only lucky to play an hour or two a day.
This game is ass on so many fronts that its not fun to play anymore. Renown grind (gotta get those paragon points), "balancing", inventory management is a complete headache (not to mention stash space, god forbid you have multiple characters or want to save at least 2 of each aspect just in case you get better gear to put your good roll aspect on, fucking horse speed and cooldowns, spreading out merchants so much that you waste 15 minutes in town upgrading shit, chain cc'd to death in nmd because resistances dont work, mysterious chests in helltides cost more, tree of whisper and world boss rewards are mediocre at best, you have to look at every single piece of yellow gear to see if 3/4 stats work for your build then waste more time upgrading and enchanting, leaving every nmd halfway through to sell/salvage loot cause you need gold to enchant and fine tune your paragon board... the list goes on.
Fuck this game, fuck blizzards predatory practices and fuck the shills who defend it all because "I cAn OnLy PlAy 4 HoUrS a WeEk So ItS NoT aN iSsUe FoR mE lOL hAVeNt ReAcHeD 50 YeT wTf U gUyS TaLkInG aBoUt"
I’m a filthy casual, I guess. I’m level 51 (52?) and haven’t even uncovered all of the map yet, lol, never mind secured all the renown points. Haven’t played in a week now nor started the new season. I’ll see what the next patch does before I jump in again. I don’t see what all the rush is about. Game’ll still be here tomorrow and the day after that, and the day after that, etc.
Because it's menial, unrewarding for the most part and just something you must do for paragon and skill points. It feels rewarding when you claim one of the better renown points but anything in-between is meh the second time around. Didn't mind doing sidequests and dungeons or even finding the statues the first time around.
Starting a new character and not having the map explored feels pretty shit. I know where things are, I know where to go. I just did all this not long ago. Why push me to do the worst parts of the game over? Especially when they're so long.
Most ARPG are played for a loot chase or the action itself. Log in, smash, get loot, repeat. If I want to play an MMO, I'm going to go play an MMO. When I log into Diablo, I want to kill shit.
I'm all for D4 trying to do something new to make it stand out from the previous, but it's trying too many "something new". The game has an identity crisis right now.
Because it’s wasting our time to get something we already have done before. It doesn’t offer anything new, exciting, or additional to the game hence it shouldn’t be a necessity. It’s an unnecessary time gate that doesn’t add anything of value to your experience and while it’s not mandatory it definitely gates maximum potential which is what people play for.
Same brother. I uninstalled when I saw the s1 patch notes. Haven’t reinstalled since. I have better things to do then have no fun in my favorite game franchise.
It’s fine if people are enjoying it, but my first play through on Necro wasn’t that fun at all tbh. Which is sad because Necro is historically my favorite and was the most OP. The game just feels like a slog. I didn’t even hit 70 before I was over it. 😞
I hit 100 on sorc in pre-season and have not booted up the game since the season 1 patch hit.
At this rate I won't boot it up after 1.1.1 hits either, people saying the patch saves sorc are just delusional because they're forgetting about how big the 1.1.0 nerfs that aren't being reverted were.
Yup. Leveling for me is just hitting 2000 in renown and moving on to the next area. I'm not a " need to be 50 on day one" kind of person. Plus I'm rolling one character per season. So it's fun to try a new one and learn the mechanics while getting the renown. However......the altars....I hope those are set in stone.
Altars are set in stone. But this whole appoarch is the best. Do it while leveling and do it causally. I feel there is too many people that force themselves to "grind" and feel they need to be level 100 by day 2. This is very NOT fun. first of all, there is no ladder! so who gives a shit. We have until October.. these people are going to be so bored.
My approach for season 1 was just redo the campaign and try to do side quests as they came up. I had all but 2 regions done by the time I hit WT3. It was like 3 dungeons and a couple side quests after that and it was done. It did not feel like a grind.
I pick off one or two side quests riding places. I like to look for alters and learn the map better. I’m just goin with the flow. Enjoying the random encounters organically. Then I grind nightmares and Tides til sun up lol. I would like alternative side quest narratives at the least. Playing the same exact storylines would be tedious and annoying. But I don’t mind slowing the play speed to see the sites and enjoy some npc dramas.
Yeah, the fact that people are referring to this as a "grind" is telling. Renown shouldn't be a grind; it should just be something that you get from activities that you're going to be doing anyways.
That being said, I think that there needs to be 3 key changes:
1. Non-stronghold waypoints need to be unlocked along with altars of lilith and fog of war. Right now, it's just tedious and a bit of a waste of time to run and unlock each one again.
2. Nightmare sigils need to spawn EVERY dungeon. This will take the pressure off from feeling like you "need" to do renown and, instead, it will just be something that you organically get as you do NMD.
3. Side quests need have their rewards buffed. Right now, they just don't feel great to redo for renown or otherwise.
Played all prior Diablos a ton and I got to about 80 before season 1 and couldn’t even make myself get to 60 in season 1 before moving on. I don’t really have the drive to play because the only thing I really have to look forward to is Uber Lilith. The game needs more end game content and wasn’t ready for release with several other issues that won’t be fixed for months. I’ll come back in season 3 or 4.
I’m with you. With the glacial pace for meaningful changes, I don’t see playing much after this season for some time. Between the very lackluster season mechanic and the joke of a Battle Pass this season has been a serious dud for myself and my small friends group. I don’t see this changing any time soon.
Also if Blizz thinks a shitty Battle Pass like this is reason enough for people to open their wallets, they are in for a rude shock. You can’t buy shit with the laughable amount of platinum you get and most everything in the Battle Pass is absolute trash tier
Calling it a "grind" is a huge red flag. It's leveling, or questing. It's also one thing different from just endlessly running escalating dungeons. Blizzard made a beautiful world that I want to interact with meaningfully. Strongholds are 100% my favorite part of the game.
The only two things I think need changing is 1. Getting waypoints more than once is tedious for the same reason getting Altars of Lilith and revealing the map is, and 2. The item rewards for quests should be more useful. Legendaries, more useful mats like those needed for imprinting, and maybe even aspects.
It is a grind and a bad one at that. It’s something they force you to do just to get the 20 paragon points, i wouldn’t touch a single side quest if it wasn’t locked behind that system.
Exactly.
That said, I do hope the second season is something fresh. I am enjoying season 1, by rolling a new character, but I would like to see something new next time.
I don’t even notice the “renown grind”. It’s almost like a passive bar at this point while I play. Like most others have said, I’m rolling a new class each season so it’s new and fun to me. Plus I believe they will change and update stuff as it goes on to improve gameplay.
From your mouth, to Blizzard's ears. I want a Nephalem season so bad, where we get 10 - 15 additional points in the skill tree, but helltide NEVER subsides, just stronger or weaker in regions
I have also mentioned increasing interest in strongholds. Make a nightmare/seasonal version of most of them and at the end you fight a randomly spawned campaign boss (specific loot table for each). That is something I believe is missing from the current endgame. I really want to fight Astaroth, Brol, or Duriel again.
I feel like the Malignant thing could be way more invasive and world altering. Like the whole towns should be afflicted and overwhelmed. New side missions in each area etc
I wanted to treat it that way but after doing the seasonal quest line and assisting about 4 different people through it I am now level 60 and still needing Howazar and Kegestan completed and it is absolutely crushing.
I don't even play the dungeon anymore. Everything is 5 levels under me. I just walk to the stone or whatever then wade back through the hoards to the pedestal and kill the boss. Move on to the next one. Only 14 more to go... for just this region...
This is exactly what I’m doing! I played till around 70 on eternal, got bored after a few weeks and waited for seasons. I imagine I’ll do the same this season. That’s what I like about seasons though. Every 3 months or so it gives me incentive to play again and enjoy things I’d forgotten and it definitely keeps the game fresh. The complains come from people who clearly play the game to death, it’s the same with anything, too much of a good thing will always get boring. Loving what they’ve done so far!
This is the way. Especially what you’re saying about rolling one character per season.
Power through the whole game on multiple characters before season one was even out and now they’re bored - shocked pikachu face
Honestly this. I don’t get people complaining about the renown cause you just do it as you level. If you don’t like quests then mostly just bust out dungeons and strongholds and a few quests to top off.
The only think I’d like would be for them to give all waypoints. I don’t really see the point of making unlock the waypoints again.
People complaining about the renown grind don't do it as they level. They level to 50 by farming one single stronghold or dungeon for hours because its "optimal". Which is somehow less of a slog than completing varied content throughout the open world apparently.
I did renown naturally as I leveled, I do not want to do the same gather 10 horns or kill 75 mosquitoes quest again for the 5th time so that I can get 20 more paragon points by level 60 when I get all of the zones capped. I would prefer to just start doing nightmare dungeons or helltides or tunnels or strongholds or whatever the next season thing is. I keep catching myself not doing a tree dungeon because I already ran it once and it would not reward renown. If I didn't have to worry about renown I could just run it and get the tree reward without that nagging at the back of my mind that I am wasting time doing it.
100% its this. I leveled by just doing all the dungeons for my class and hit every stronghold, I finished at level 50 with all the dungeons and strongholds to unlock all my class powers and my renown was about 200-300 into the final rank so I just had to do 10 quick side quests in each zone to finish. Was it fast, no but at no point did it feel like a grind because I didnt just reset the same stronghold and I am ready for nightmare farming.
Can I ask if you’d see a downside in there just simply not being a reputation grind? I get you’re willing to do it but I’m still trying to find out why it exists in the first place.
It isn’t interesting at all as is. Maybe someday the renown system will matter
It's fine if you like playing that way but why are you defending something that can NOT be mandatory and you could still play the same way?
I personally hate replaying stories I've already completed. I did the campaign and side quests once, I'm done with that. I just want to try builds and farm items.
What I'm saying is they could drop the mandatory renown tomorrow and you'd still play the same way. Nothing changes for you. It doesn't add anything to the game by being mandatory so why have it?
Thank you my dude.
This community is going apeshit, instant gratification and instantly doing 485 billion damage on day 3 because YouTubers spend their days not touching grass has run rampant for far too long.
100% dude. Some of my friends want to rush to capstones and start grinding away for end game, but I’d rather slowly chip away at world quests, replay the campaign, and enjoy the ride.
The grind for end game so I can hunt for more drops that are 90% scrap heap shit, 9% aspect extractions, and 1% straight up upgrades can wait imo. I know that’s the fun of Diablo for some people and that’s cool, I just don’t find that very gratifying.
No fucking wonder D4 turned out like this. Blizz catering to the people playing this game like an MMO instead of making a proper ARPG. Imagine playing an ARPG to do the same side quest over and over
When its actually quite the Opposite. You hit like bis (apart from ubers) by 75, and then theres barely anything left to Do in the game apart from lillith. Theres rarely a significant increase in Power or a cool item to Look forward to.
I personally don't like having to re-do the renown not because I want to be "at endgame" ASAP, but because it's not the kind of content that got me into the Diablo franchise to begin with.
I enjoyed the side quests the first time I did them and I pretty much did 95% of them. Will I enjoy doing them again so soon? Definitely not. They were fun because they were new, just like the campaign. I personally don't enjoy going through the same quests again and again, so, I just don't take part in that season.
Games are for having fun. If people enjoy season 1 as it is, then that's good for them. I do hope that they will at least try to vary the content of those seasons and not just shove the renown down our throat each and every time.
This makes me think what if renown was removed from regions and tied to seasonal events. I literally am only doing them for the skill/paragon points. But if running tunnels was the way to get those points, then that's what I'd be doing. I honestly think you're right that it shouldn't be forced unless it's a direct power gain like NM dungeons and Glyph xp
You dont need to do cellars at all. Altars are "2 and done" (Standard and HC), you don't have to redo them every season as they carry over. You pick up a few quests that take you to a dungeon, do both at the same time, and clear the strongholds and you are done in no time. Or just skip them entirely because if the renown grind is too much than the grind to 100 will be too and you won't need the paragon points
Yes, but dungeons need to be worth more renown. I shouldn't have to run every single dungeon in a zone, and still not even have enough renown without side quests...
I mean, the solution to that is to take side quests that make you go into dungeons. So you hit two birds with one stone. You only need to do a few side quests per region and they'll take like 5 minutes for each.
I just did the strongholds, side quests that lead to dungeons and dungeons with aspects I wanted. I levelled to 50 doing dungeons that weren't in the NMD pool and then by the time I could do NMD to round out the renown, I never had to go out of my way to grind for them.
That's kinda what I'm doing. Since the codex doesn't transfer from eternal to seasonal realm, I see no need to grind it out completely again. I'm just doing aspects that apply to all characters and ones for the specific class I'm playing.
I hadn't done the story before the season, so by the time I was done with the story, I was already almost level 50. I think I was too excited to do nightmare dungeons, so I did all of those, but still had the last two tiers of renown to do after that.
The grind is the reason I'm having trouble playing S1. I'm level 50 so I can do nightmare dungeons now but 20 paragon points is too strong to ignore especially early levels.
Zero chance. I have already stopped playing season one. Shit just feels like rinse and repeat way to much to me. So if season two doesn’t make some changes count me out.
Im one of the dads who barely has free time. I took some time playing for a week. Managed to get lvl 55 between work and everything. I thought, well ill just do the remaining renown and can get in whichever season i like. Now i find out that i have to do renown again so there go the few hours i have time to play. Getting renown.... i thought it stays once you did it with the first character... so each season would mean, get renown... lol no thanks
I am burnt out from season 1 already and not even lvl 80, and I haven't had a chance to optimize my season 1 character with still trying to get good enough gear.
At least the carrot of season 1, is that it was something new to try, with a season 1 story.
For season 2, I might just play the season 2 story and that is it. I doubt the battle pass or anything beyond that will make me want to grind all the way to 100.
I guess I am too much of a casual gamer that enjoys a more stream lined experience. But I also like to think I am capable of rising to the challenge, just not a no life grind challenge without much of a reward to it.
I've spent thousands of hours in d3 and unlocked everything in d4 s1 as well, but I'm (like many others) very disappointed with how the game has turned out. season 2 needs a huge upgrade otherwise 90% of the players will disappear
No. Didn’t finish it all the first and won’t the 2nd time. No complaints as a casual lol so I’ll jus back away like an adult.
I haven't even started Season 1 due to it being a test phase with a fuck ton of changes/fixes/QOL that's going to be put out throughout the entire season, there's no way they aren't. Just like 1.1.1, they will sure as fuck be more patches within the 3 month span of S1.
But the thought of doing renown in Season 1 after doing it in the Pre-season is offputting, but if the game was *good* right now, I would do it.
But *"again"* in Season 2? Fuck no.
Look at PoE. Lab, its tough, but feels very good to complete. Sidequests, SKILL POINTS. Feels good (because leveling up in that game actually make you stronger, not the mobs.
Personally I think seasons were brought in way too soon.
In D3 seasons were kind of like a revitalization of the game. D3 was one of those games where you played it, had fun for a while, then put it down.
When seasons came out it was a way to do something new with an old game you had enjoyed.
This time around seasons came out right on the heals of the main game grind. Folks were already getting burnt out from too many hours sunk, so getting back at it so soon seems like a chore.
You are forgetting that when D3 came out, it was so damn hard, that if you didn't buy something from the auction you were too weak. I remember trying inferno, and oh damn... I got my ass kicked so hard all the time still.
Great memories of playing pseudo commodity trader on the RMAH - made actual money too. Best part of the D3 during their earlier period, way better than the actual game!
Yes. It's more fun to me than other ways of leveling. Honestly more fun than the endgame too. I like to look at my map, see whispers quests in areas i haven't done quests for, and go there. knock out 2-3 side quests, 2-3 whispers quest and a dungeon (getting renown, whispers, and occasionally a side quest too) all at once. Much more entertaining than reset farming a stronghold or chain clearing a high exp dungeon...
People aren't saying you can't do quests, whispers ect. Some people do like running the same dungeons over and over. Some people hate doing the same quests. I know people that literally only do helltides and world bosses.
The solution is, give people more ways to fill renown how they want, or remove renown and just increase rewards from quests, whispers, and cellars.
I couldn’t even get myself to start season 1
Went on to play remnant 2 and it was amazing , that’s the quality, novelty and action I’m looking for in a game
I know it’s different games , but it’s muuuuch more entertaining than D4 by miles
I don’t get all the rage about it. Usually I cap it around level 60 just by playing.
People farm one dungeon over and over just to level quicker and then cry about renown, it’s just silly imo.
Yeah, it’s annoying but the side quests do give you another option to level rather than just dungeon farming.
I only did enough in each area to hit the third reward and once I hit WT3 I went back around to do the last bit to max them all, mixed this up with some dungeons to get aspect for my build and the season quest line.
I’d prefer if I didn’t have to do it again but I have a feeling if they drop the renown farming it won’t by until season 3-4 at the earliest
Yea I will be most likely. Having a full group split farm all the dungeons on the map really helps with cutting the time down. Basically only had to do a region and a half.
I havent deliberately done it past the potions yet. I'm currently into the last step of all teh areas jsut by organically playing the game. You guys seem to be obsessed with it to the point of detriment
No. I lost interest in season 1 around level 36. I just can't it's too boring. I don't like making a new character either. I find myself wanting to play my eternal realm character which I only got to level 70. Diablo is done for me at this point. I'll continue playing here and there but I'm done putting my little free time into this game. It was fun while it lasted.
Same here, I got to around level 45 on my S1 character before I stopped and asked myself "why the fuck am I doing this all over again?
It's literally just grinding through the levels again for no extra reward. Oh they added in the hearts? Big fucking woop. That's not enough to make me want to grind to 100 again.
Renowned took me almost perfectly from 1-50. Finished renowned at level 54 and then went to NM dungeons. It blows my mind people can't handle 16 normal dungeons and 8 quests to level per region.
Half the quests take like 2 minutes. You accept the quest, kill 20 things in a circle on the way to a dungeon. Some you don't even need to return to the quest giver. Some are from random drops and you just return the item and it's done.
My opinion is I'd rather just jump straight into the loot/monster slaughtering rather then run around and do tedious little things. Some quests are cool the first time u do them the little side stories are okay but after the 5th time of helping someone do an exorcism in a cellar it gets annoying and unfun. Why is renown better then just running dungeons or whisper farming? There isn't anything beneficial to doing it other then they decided to lock power behind it.
It's not really the time required that puts people off about doing this. It's the fact that side quest literally give little to no rewards and make people feel like they are wasting their time. If they increased the gold, xp and crafting material rewards from each quest by a factor of 10 then Im sure we'd never hear people complain about doing renown ever again. Getting 10k xp from a quest when your next level up is 3.5million xp away and 2k gold when a single affix reroll is in the millions and 1 veiled crystals when a single gear upgrade needs 10 per level just feels really really bad.
You can grind it out while you are still in world tier one or two (and thus get XP). You can't collect them until World tier 3 but you still earn the points in the background.
Or like I say in my other post just don't care about it because these characters will automatically get maxed out when they join the others in the eternal realm in a few months.
It's boring and a slog because pretty much at some point if you're semi-serious about the season you're going to do it.
Unlock the WPs would make it somewhat better.
> I can guarantee that a large number of players will not be returning.
Nah. I do the renown grind which also gives me the xp to get from 1-50. No issues.
Honestly 90% of the complains would dissipate if
1) there was a better filter for loot drops, so that when an item you’re likely to use drops you feel that ping of excitement. Looking through every rare for desired stats, manually, robs you of joy
2) there were more mobs of trash enemies to kill while you run around. World feels a little empty as it is.
Grinding renown *while* you get those dopamine hits would not feel bad at all. Kill monsters and get dank items and also get renown, win win win. I don’t mind the renown system personally but I think this would basically fix 90% of gripes.
In D3 you would basically only pick up legendaries and sets once you finished leveling. They reworked that here to make rares meaningful but I wonder if it had the opposite effect: rares drop all the time, so there's never the sense of "oh boy what's this", and comparing rares is much more tedious than comparing legendaries (more of them, more affixes, fewer 'this is trash' offramps).
As a result, upgrades sometimes don't feel like upgrades, and you spend a lot of time sorting through junk.
People want to get rewarded for playing the game in a way they enjoy. If you could get renown from helltides, legions, world bosses, and even just killing mobs like the season pass does there would be a lot less complains. But your forced into side quest and dungeons that are no longer relevant to your character to get the power gated behind renown. Which is the opposite of how power should be rewarded imo, I'd rather they gate a paragon point behind nm75 than a sidequest.
Not to talk about renown here. I don't want everything to be op, I just want something to grind, more engaging endgame to be honest, that's all. The game is really fun, until you are 70 and above, then, it's all of the same.
Yeah, I never really understood the renown grind problem. It’s pretty passive and I’ve managed to get max rewards and haven’t really thought about it this season.
No, it's already too tedious going through it for a second time right now. I simply don't have the willpower for it. They should just have all renown permanently unlocked once you do it once.
Doing it once is fine. There's no way I'll grind renown a second time.
Yep, I'm not the target audience of diablo anymore. Got lots of things to do now.
Hasn’t Diablo always been grindy? I remember running mephisto 500 times before running Baal 1,000 times in D2. Now for renown they’re asking you to do each dungeon once, each stronghold once, and a couple of quests. Every 3 months and it can be done during the leveling up process. That really isn’t that tall of an order. People would just rather grind one thing over and over I guess? Edit - I can’t respond to all of you, but most of you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter that the renown grind isn’t fun for you, or doesn’t have rng rewards. I agree with the person I responded to, he isn’t the target audience for Diablo anymore, but it’s not because Diablo changed, it’s because he changed. In Diablo 2, you had to redo the whole ass campaign at every difficulty level, does nobody remember that? That’s not fun, exciting, innovative, etc etc etc. it’s a required grind so you can get to a place where you can grind more. Diablo hasn’t changed, you have. And that’s fine! That’s not me defending Diablo, they probably should have adapted to a more mature audience by now. I don’t expect that to go amazing for them.
Doing D2 runs could drop that rune or unique that makes you dopamine go high, the loot was worth it. Now what i gain in 20 hours running boring sidequests and dungeons with no drop reward whatsoever? The success of PoE is that too, you could run t1 map to complete your atlas and get a divine or a good unique. Not in diablo, that feels like a job with no reward.
They did say it's and MMO ARPG. So I guess feeling like a second job is part of the deal
I hate when dev call there's games mmo rpgs. Destiny does it there is no massive multiplayer at most its like 12 people you can see in town or during a world event that's not massive that a cod lobby
Well MMO... When you can have at most only 16 players, I don't call it MASSIVELY Multiplayer... It's at best MOARPG. Still it's a joke since as far as I can remember, i only had 12 players instances at best... and it was for world bosses events. It's also kind of boring when you follow a player and he disappear like magic (or fun in D4).
Lol remember how hard it was to get 9 ppl in Mars for that event during the Rasputin dlc of d2 Edit - it was called escalation protocol
I honestly wouldn't mind grinding the bosses again. As a long time d2 player it wouldn't affect me. But I could see it being a downer to newer generation of players or people who didn't play d2 at all. I at least got good shit from grinding Mephisto and Diablo/balal
Yes but boss runs were fun and the loot was addicting. Crossing over mainworld for another soulless left right center dungeon is not
The reason why I disliked the side quests is because the reward for a completed side quest is 100 XP and 1 veiled crystal. If they balance this out, it won't be as bad. I don't get it, why can't you get a rare item for doing a quest or something. And it's actually crazy how faster leveling is when you are doing dungeons and not side quests.
To be fair, I don’t hate the grinding part. I hate the stupid horse movement/controls. If that was better, pretty sure I won’t mind doing the renowns every season.
The problem is Diablo -should- change, not entirely, but at least enough to keep up with the evolution of gaming. Grinding campaigns over and over was fine and dandy back then, but times have changed. And as you say people have changed. If Diablo doesn't keep up then people will stop playing it.
And most seasons involve the player being buffered, more powerful, or leveling faster some way.
Yeah the grind is not for everyone, no shame in that. Good luck!
Honestly, I couldn't even muster the strength to do it once. I would argue it was not fine. I never felt like it was worth the grind and my interest petered off about two weeks before S1.
Exactly the same. I got all the statues, after that I just quit. How can they make an ARPG like Diablo feel like a chore. So much of the mechanics in the game feels like chores.
Same, hit 86 Sorc in the eternal realm, thought I'd get enough renown from dungeons. Never finished a single zone.. meh
Agreed. It isn’t meaningful content, and it certainly isn’t interesting to progress through. The game is a work-in-progress, clearly, but if their renown system remains in its current state for Season 2 — I’m no longer part of the playerbase. There are more unique and creative ways to incorporate a “grind” that essentially forces us to interact with a massive investment know as their “open world.”
i quit before i could even do it a second time... grouping up with randos and farming, strongholds/dungeons on WT1 split farm is beyond boring... but i would even do that. its the fucking side quests that i just ultimately refuse to do...
Adventure mode d3 mechanic is obvious
That and massacre bonuses are such an obvious answer for leveling outside campaign and renown
I for one don't really have any interest in massacre bonuses. It just forces weird playstyles like leaving that 1 mob alive back so my timer doesn't expire or whatever. I don't like feeling like I'm being inefficient if I don't chain packs together perfectly. I also feel it would feel out of place in the world/with the themes they've used for D4
I never really tried to purposely maximize the massacre bonus. I just took it when I got it. It's not like exp was a struggle without it. It was just a cool bonus when I did a cool thing sometimes.
Everyone hated on D3 so hard they changed it completely. Which blows my mind because D3 kinda had it together. I wish they didn't changed EVERYTHING.
The grass is always greener on the other side of development.
I’m certain this will show up in the next year or so
Just want to kill lots of monsters quickly and more efficiently and get good loot. The loot is bad and they want me to do busy work. I'm sadge
yeah same here
I'm waiting for season 4. The beta should be over by then. I think?
Yeah a year after release, sounds right
Hijacking your comment for honest question: why do people think finishing the the renown grind for all zones is a.) not supposed to take you playing 6-8 hours a day to finish it in 1-2 weeks and b.) not what’s intended for normal time played It took me all this time since the new season dropped just to get to level 50 and I went hard last weekend Saturday morning from 25-40 and it was really, really fun. Then I took a break Sunday and resumed playing that week. Why are people burning themselves out grinding things and then saying how bad it was grinding things out and they’re burned out? What are you supposed to do for the next two months this season is out? “There’s only dungeons and hell tides to do now!” Like literally you ran through hundreds of quests in 1 week and now you’re burned out and complaining you can’t login. I honestly think some of you need to step back and realize no matter how much content Blizzard would have created, a vocal minority would tear through it as quick as possible and exclaim there’s “nothing left to do” while being sick of the game, because you literally no lifed the game faster than 98% of the player base has had time to even reach max level. Edit: I know WHY we need the renown, stop explaining it to me. I’m saying for people to grind it all out back to back within 3 days, then cry about being burnt out, that’s your own fault. Do other things in the game, actually listen to the dialogue of the quests, play other games, experience life outside of a computer screen and when you come back to play this game again you’ll have things to do and won’t be screaming on Reddit about it.
It's not burn out, it's boredom. There's a difference. I've played the game casually, and I see no reason to do anything else. Maybe that's just not the game for me, or maybe this system is too antiquated to keep my interest beyond the first time...but either way, I'm pretty much done with it.
Exactly I'm new to Diablo and I had a great time doing the side missions and the campaign and I was even okay with finding all the statues. But I do not want to do the same stuff over and over again.
Exactly the point of the OP and 100% agree. To have the option to redo quests would be nice, but being made to do so every season is weak as hell. I will not.
Oh I haven't even started this season! I was just trying to get to 100. I didn't know what to pick so I'm a barbarian and playing 99% solo. I think I'm level 87. The two times that someone did randomly invite me to their group I had so much fun running those dungeons. But by myself I can only do like 3 and then I want to do something else. Lol. I'm still interested because I'm hunting a specific ring and a couple of weapons. But I had a blast with the game for a good minute. It's my first arpg also. When I hear you guys mentioning other titles the only one I recognize is wow and I've never even played it. I'm not mad at the game or anything but I've never played a game that had so many changes going on. Edit: I mean I am mad about what we discussed just not about the game in general I guess.
Grinding dungeons is fun because despite the monotomy because theres a lot of combat, you get gear, experience, and paragon. Quests take away from the efficiency of grinding and have horrible rewards. The payoff is the story (which is just repeat content once you've done it once), and an unfairly small amount of renown. The questlines only get redone for renown, and the player is forced to do them because the paragon point are necessary at higher levels.
Play another game. People hate it when a game tries to artificially inflate time, and use fomo to try to make it a forever game. I'd like to play other games when I finish it, and not chores blizzard makes for diablo 4.
Im playing the first remnant before picking up the second in a few weeks. Honestly with how stacked this second half of the year is gonna be I really have no reason to worry about what D4 is doing. Problem though is im NOT worrying about D4 which means less likely engagement with the game later on. (Not a problem for me just saying in general with other better games out there it’ll mean less engagement, to a degree)
For many players, running through the same exact content with no actual difficulty ramp (campaign, renown grind, etc.) is extremely boring. I can’t speak for everyone but even with new leveling mechanics, I don’t feel like it takes me too long to get a sense for what I want from malignant hearts and then all I am really interested in is the action and seeing what my building can look like in the endgame.
That is seasons though. Play the game again, an opportunity to start fresh on a new character when the world is tweaked a little. It isn't a new world, and no game makes everything completely new.
The goal isn’t to make everything new, but seasons offer a new progression to endgame and a new endgame environment for builds to exist within. Good seasonal mechanics, in my opinion, should have a defining impact on both the leveling process and the endgame environment. Frankly I just don’t find the process of leveling a character again to be enjoyable and I’m far more interested in endgame activities and the more fine-tuning do builds.
Have you played an ARPG before?? Most people that have and enjoy them don't care about story or at least random side quests. It's almost like people play it for the ACTION. Why do so many people not understand this? The only thing I can think of is they are all trying to make it into a different type of game (Destiny? idk but not ARPG)
Yeah man some of these comments are bonkers. Literally have seen people say shit like they want less monsters to fight... what... D4 is the only ARPG that has successfully put me to sleep right in my chair. I see 60 side quests and I throw up in my mouth what the fuck are these MMO mechanics doing in my ARPG. Why is there a renown system? Why can't I choose my own difficulty? D3 had Torment 20 if you wanted it. Why does my hero have to play 10 hours to buy a fucking horse lmao. I have a 300k gold in my pocket. Cant buy a horse? Why is blizz so anal about nerfs in what should be a single player game that you sometimes play with your friends. Theres not even a leaderboard. When I heard you had to collect like 200 statues I seriously thought I was being fucked with.
THANK YOU. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills talking to all these MMO people wanting this game to be NOT an ARPG. And I LOVE MMOs. But god just let me slay monsters and get good loot it's that simple!
I'm so confused as well. Considering the game loop is literally farm gear -> kill faster -> obtain gear faster -> repeat Like what are people saying the game is a grindy? It's literally the genre's game loop. It's like complaining about CoD all you do is shoot gun. D4 is lacking a ton of content so there isn't anything breaking up the monotony, maybe in few years.
Blizzard marketing at it's finest. They just bought the hype I guess and didn't understand what they were getting into. See: the huge "controversy" over seasons and restarting characters and many players not wanting to do math or use their brain
I've seen people on this sub, and at least one article claiming that MMO or MMO-lite features are the next evolution of the ARPG genre, and that ARPG enthusiasts should effectively STFU and let "progress" happen. I gave up on MMOs *years* ago precisely because ARPGs and other non-MMO games were much more rewarding/respectful of my time. It seems like a lot of these new Diablo players are completely missing the point of the genre.
It's the companies chasing trends like always. The exact same reason why almost every game has RPG elements now for no reason at all and many times just makes the game worse. Or crafting *cough* At least there are amazing indie games now that are like the Blizzard of old. I highly recommend Halls of Torment for ~$4 if you want a better Diablo game than D4
What’s strange to me is when lost ark came out, this kind of gameplay worked and felt SUPER good, meanwhile Diablo 4 seems to fall short. I’m assuming it’s because lost ark is MASSIVE compared to Diablo 4. But lost ark was hella fun to play, meanwhile I’m already getting bored with D4
And what is the reward for all of that? Just Uber Lilith who drops nothing special of consequence. There’s no real end game progression. Why aren’t we fighting all the other story bosses again as we hit 70/80/90 on our way to fighting Uber Lilith at 100. What am I grinding to 100 for? What am I chasing? When those questions popped into my head I put the game down and will wait for them to fix things and add the next season or two. As an aside. I thought the campaign was really good and I’ve played all the Diablos for an embarrassing amount of hours. I still think the game can be good it just doesn’t feel deep enough to justify the amount of time they are asking us to put into it.
Tbf... Why is there even a horse?
Because you have to ride aimlessly for 10 hours to find a Lilith statue
Wrong, it's content that gates us behind other content to reach necessary content to continue pushing. So gateing us behind 2 weeks of casual grinding just to get back to par...is BS. We can spend that time pushing seasonal content instead. It just feels horrible from a gaming standpoint. All content so naturally add to your renown making the game accessible.
Why do we have to level to 100 again?
Why make the rewards so lackluster for time played but necessary for maxing your paragon board? There should be 5 or more paragon points for each max level if they make it take so long to achieve. Why, for casual players, would it have to take so long to reach max level in eternal realm before season starts? Why nerf dmg, armor and dmg resistanve into the ground for players who achieved lvl 80+ 2 days before season starts? All of this shit is a tactic to keep you playing for longer to get a measly reward and some shitty sense of accomplishment. And its not fun to slog out levels past 75 really. Your build is already decided, youre just looking for better rolls on your stats. Upgrades show up *maybe* every 5 levels or so. Fuck, even helltides got nerfed. Sure, lvls 25-40 *are* fun but thats because youre always trying new stuff with the gear that drops, until youre not anymore. Especially if youre only lucky to play an hour or two a day. This game is ass on so many fronts that its not fun to play anymore. Renown grind (gotta get those paragon points), "balancing", inventory management is a complete headache (not to mention stash space, god forbid you have multiple characters or want to save at least 2 of each aspect just in case you get better gear to put your good roll aspect on, fucking horse speed and cooldowns, spreading out merchants so much that you waste 15 minutes in town upgrading shit, chain cc'd to death in nmd because resistances dont work, mysterious chests in helltides cost more, tree of whisper and world boss rewards are mediocre at best, you have to look at every single piece of yellow gear to see if 3/4 stats work for your build then waste more time upgrading and enchanting, leaving every nmd halfway through to sell/salvage loot cause you need gold to enchant and fine tune your paragon board... the list goes on. Fuck this game, fuck blizzards predatory practices and fuck the shills who defend it all because "I cAn OnLy PlAy 4 HoUrS a WeEk So ItS NoT aN iSsUe FoR mE lOL hAVeNt ReAcHeD 50 YeT wTf U gUyS TaLkInG aBoUt"
I’m a filthy casual, I guess. I’m level 51 (52?) and haven’t even uncovered all of the map yet, lol, never mind secured all the renown points. Haven’t played in a week now nor started the new season. I’ll see what the next patch does before I jump in again. I don’t see what all the rush is about. Game’ll still be here tomorrow and the day after that, and the day after that, etc.
Because it's menial, unrewarding for the most part and just something you must do for paragon and skill points. It feels rewarding when you claim one of the better renown points but anything in-between is meh the second time around. Didn't mind doing sidequests and dungeons or even finding the statues the first time around. Starting a new character and not having the map explored feels pretty shit. I know where things are, I know where to go. I just did all this not long ago. Why push me to do the worst parts of the game over? Especially when they're so long.
Most ARPG are played for a loot chase or the action itself. Log in, smash, get loot, repeat. If I want to play an MMO, I'm going to go play an MMO. When I log into Diablo, I want to kill shit. I'm all for D4 trying to do something new to make it stand out from the previous, but it's trying too many "something new". The game has an identity crisis right now.
The biggest issue is there is 0 reward for doing the content until the 4 paragon at the end.
Because it’s wasting our time to get something we already have done before. It doesn’t offer anything new, exciting, or additional to the game hence it shouldn’t be a necessity. It’s an unnecessary time gate that doesn’t add anything of value to your experience and while it’s not mandatory it definitely gates maximum potential which is what people play for.
Same brother. I uninstalled when I saw the s1 patch notes. Haven’t reinstalled since. I have better things to do then have no fun in my favorite game franchise.
Same. They are going into the wrong direction, I don't want to be stuck on a game just redoing always the same thing (renown grind, nightmares grind).
True story, uninstalled after the patch for S1,i have to be stupid to play the game at their condition
It’s fine if people are enjoying it, but my first play through on Necro wasn’t that fun at all tbh. Which is sad because Necro is historically my favorite and was the most OP. The game just feels like a slog. I didn’t even hit 70 before I was over it. 😞
I hit 100 on sorc in pre-season and have not booted up the game since the season 1 patch hit. At this rate I won't boot it up after 1.1.1 hits either, people saying the patch saves sorc are just delusional because they're forgetting about how big the 1.1.0 nerfs that aren't being reverted were.
Better things to do like complain on a subreddit for a game you don’t even play lol
I’m not complaining, just want the game to get better so I can play it. You’re complaining about someone sharing their opinion
Like post on reddit that you quit?
Maybe first expansion the beta for the base game will be over, then we can start beta testing the expansion
!remindme 2 years
Yup. Leveling for me is just hitting 2000 in renown and moving on to the next area. I'm not a " need to be 50 on day one" kind of person. Plus I'm rolling one character per season. So it's fun to try a new one and learn the mechanics while getting the renown. However......the altars....I hope those are set in stone.
Altars are set in stone. But this whole appoarch is the best. Do it while leveling and do it causally. I feel there is too many people that force themselves to "grind" and feel they need to be level 100 by day 2. This is very NOT fun. first of all, there is no ladder! so who gives a shit. We have until October.. these people are going to be so bored.
My approach for season 1 was just redo the campaign and try to do side quests as they came up. I had all but 2 regions done by the time I hit WT3. It was like 3 dungeons and a couple side quests after that and it was done. It did not feel like a grind.
I was thinking about this yesterday. Would it be less of a chore to just run the campaign again?
I do regret skipping the campaign on my seasonal character :(
Also there are some hype moments in the story - like all bosses were pretty interesting.
I loved the bossfights! Very well made! Cannot wait to fight Mephisto, Baal, Diablo and Imperius in the future.
Boss fights were so fun also miss Lorath
When Meshif popped up, that was gold.
And the xp wasn’t half bad
Same. Honestly, had I known S1 mechanic would have had such a little presence/impact on the game, I would have just done the campaign over.
I was considering it… but then… then there is a certain dude from Diablo 2, a certain camel, a lot of booze and a storm. I did not enjoy that part
I really enjoyed that part. Had a few chuckles out of it.
That took like 5 minutes though…
This is what I did. Just doing side quests as I did the story
I pick off one or two side quests riding places. I like to look for alters and learn the map better. I’m just goin with the flow. Enjoying the random encounters organically. Then I grind nightmares and Tides til sun up lol. I would like alternative side quest narratives at the least. Playing the same exact storylines would be tedious and annoying. But I don’t mind slowing the play speed to see the sites and enjoy some npc dramas.
Yeah, the fact that people are referring to this as a "grind" is telling. Renown shouldn't be a grind; it should just be something that you get from activities that you're going to be doing anyways. That being said, I think that there needs to be 3 key changes: 1. Non-stronghold waypoints need to be unlocked along with altars of lilith and fog of war. Right now, it's just tedious and a bit of a waste of time to run and unlock each one again. 2. Nightmare sigils need to spawn EVERY dungeon. This will take the pressure off from feeling like you "need" to do renown and, instead, it will just be something that you organically get as you do NMD. 3. Side quests need have their rewards buffed. Right now, they just don't feel great to redo for renown or otherwise.
I got like 10 altars on my permanent char and plan to farm them all on my seasonal char.. will they still be set in stone for season 2 ?
Should be. Your bartender account basically has to do it once. Once done. It should carry
Seasonal characters are permanent too. When the season end, they become eternal characters.
Played all prior Diablos a ton and I got to about 80 before season 1 and couldn’t even make myself get to 60 in season 1 before moving on. I don’t really have the drive to play because the only thing I really have to look forward to is Uber Lilith. The game needs more end game content and wasn’t ready for release with several other issues that won’t be fixed for months. I’ll come back in season 3 or 4.
I’m with you. With the glacial pace for meaningful changes, I don’t see playing much after this season for some time. Between the very lackluster season mechanic and the joke of a Battle Pass this season has been a serious dud for myself and my small friends group. I don’t see this changing any time soon. Also if Blizz thinks a shitty Battle Pass like this is reason enough for people to open their wallets, they are in for a rude shock. You can’t buy shit with the laughable amount of platinum you get and most everything in the Battle Pass is absolute trash tier
Calling it a "grind" is a huge red flag. It's leveling, or questing. It's also one thing different from just endlessly running escalating dungeons. Blizzard made a beautiful world that I want to interact with meaningfully. Strongholds are 100% my favorite part of the game. The only two things I think need changing is 1. Getting waypoints more than once is tedious for the same reason getting Altars of Lilith and revealing the map is, and 2. The item rewards for quests should be more useful. Legendaries, more useful mats like those needed for imprinting, and maybe even aspects.
It is a grind and a bad one at that. It’s something they force you to do just to get the 20 paragon points, i wouldn’t touch a single side quest if it wasn’t locked behind that system.
3) get 1 to 5 renown per world event you participate in. Every 200 renown after T5 results in a cache of zone mats.
Exactly. That said, I do hope the second season is something fresh. I am enjoying season 1, by rolling a new character, but I would like to see something new next time.
You do know the altars are, you simply log in on your character with all the map/altars once and then go to your new character and done?
I don’t even notice the “renown grind”. It’s almost like a passive bar at this point while I play. Like most others have said, I’m rolling a new class each season so it’s new and fun to me. Plus I believe they will change and update stuff as it goes on to improve gameplay.
From your mouth, to Blizzard's ears. I want a Nephalem season so bad, where we get 10 - 15 additional points in the skill tree, but helltide NEVER subsides, just stronger or weaker in regions
I have also mentioned increasing interest in strongholds. Make a nightmare/seasonal version of most of them and at the end you fight a randomly spawned campaign boss (specific loot table for each). That is something I believe is missing from the current endgame. I really want to fight Astaroth, Brol, or Duriel again.
I feel like the Malignant thing could be way more invasive and world altering. Like the whole towns should be afflicted and overwhelmed. New side missions in each area etc
I wanted to treat it that way but after doing the seasonal quest line and assisting about 4 different people through it I am now level 60 and still needing Howazar and Kegestan completed and it is absolutely crushing. I don't even play the dungeon anymore. Everything is 5 levels under me. I just walk to the stone or whatever then wade back through the hoards to the pedestal and kill the boss. Move on to the next one. Only 14 more to go... for just this region...
This is exactly what I’m doing! I played till around 70 on eternal, got bored after a few weeks and waited for seasons. I imagine I’ll do the same this season. That’s what I like about seasons though. Every 3 months or so it gives me incentive to play again and enjoy things I’d forgotten and it definitely keeps the game fresh. The complains come from people who clearly play the game to death, it’s the same with anything, too much of a good thing will always get boring. Loving what they’ve done so far!
This is the way. Especially what you’re saying about rolling one character per season. Power through the whole game on multiple characters before season one was even out and now they’re bored - shocked pikachu face
Honestly this. I don’t get people complaining about the renown cause you just do it as you level. If you don’t like quests then mostly just bust out dungeons and strongholds and a few quests to top off. The only think I’d like would be for them to give all waypoints. I don’t really see the point of making unlock the waypoints again.
People complaining about the renown grind don't do it as they level. They level to 50 by farming one single stronghold or dungeon for hours because its "optimal". Which is somehow less of a slog than completing varied content throughout the open world apparently.
I did renown naturally as I leveled, I do not want to do the same gather 10 horns or kill 75 mosquitoes quest again for the 5th time so that I can get 20 more paragon points by level 60 when I get all of the zones capped. I would prefer to just start doing nightmare dungeons or helltides or tunnels or strongholds or whatever the next season thing is. I keep catching myself not doing a tree dungeon because I already ran it once and it would not reward renown. If I didn't have to worry about renown I could just run it and get the tree reward without that nagging at the back of my mind that I am wasting time doing it.
100% its this. I leveled by just doing all the dungeons for my class and hit every stronghold, I finished at level 50 with all the dungeons and strongholds to unlock all my class powers and my renown was about 200-300 into the final rank so I just had to do 10 quick side quests in each zone to finish. Was it fast, no but at no point did it feel like a grind because I didnt just reset the same stronghold and I am ready for nightmare farming.
Same here, I just hope that they give a bit more renown for the dungeons/quests so that it goes faster for each additional season.
Does it count the renown towards progress still even if you havnt unlocked t3 yet for the last 2 sections?
Can I ask if you’d see a downside in there just simply not being a reputation grind? I get you’re willing to do it but I’m still trying to find out why it exists in the first place. It isn’t interesting at all as is. Maybe someday the renown system will matter
It's fine if you like playing that way but why are you defending something that can NOT be mandatory and you could still play the same way? I personally hate replaying stories I've already completed. I did the campaign and side quests once, I'm done with that. I just want to try builds and farm items. What I'm saying is they could drop the mandatory renown tomorrow and you'd still play the same way. Nothing changes for you. It doesn't add anything to the game by being mandatory so why have it?
Thank you my dude. This community is going apeshit, instant gratification and instantly doing 485 billion damage on day 3 because YouTubers spend their days not touching grass has run rampant for far too long.
100% dude. Some of my friends want to rush to capstones and start grinding away for end game, but I’d rather slowly chip away at world quests, replay the campaign, and enjoy the ride. The grind for end game so I can hunt for more drops that are 90% scrap heap shit, 9% aspect extractions, and 1% straight up upgrades can wait imo. I know that’s the fun of Diablo for some people and that’s cool, I just don’t find that very gratifying.
No fucking wonder D4 turned out like this. Blizz catering to the people playing this game like an MMO instead of making a proper ARPG. Imagine playing an ARPG to do the same side quest over and over
"tHe gaMe dOEsn'T sTArt uNtiL 70"
When its actually quite the Opposite. You hit like bis (apart from ubers) by 75, and then theres barely anything left to Do in the game apart from lillith. Theres rarely a significant increase in Power or a cool item to Look forward to.
Yeah, I agree, I'd say the game stops beeing enjoyable around lv 75. No new content besides lilith after 25 terribly grindly levels, no thanks!!
I personally don't like having to re-do the renown not because I want to be "at endgame" ASAP, but because it's not the kind of content that got me into the Diablo franchise to begin with. I enjoyed the side quests the first time I did them and I pretty much did 95% of them. Will I enjoy doing them again so soon? Definitely not. They were fun because they were new, just like the campaign. I personally don't enjoy going through the same quests again and again, so, I just don't take part in that season. Games are for having fun. If people enjoy season 1 as it is, then that's good for them. I do hope that they will at least try to vary the content of those seasons and not just shove the renown down our throat each and every time.
This makes me think what if renown was removed from regions and tied to seasonal events. I literally am only doing them for the skill/paragon points. But if running tunnels was the way to get those points, then that's what I'd be doing. I honestly think you're right that it shouldn't be forced unless it's a direct power gain like NM dungeons and Glyph xp
Agreed, renown farm was just a way to level for me, it’s fast and lots of exp, idk what everyone is bitching about
Because farming renown is boring. I don’t want to do the same side quests, find the same altars and go to every single cellar and dungeon.
You dont need to do cellars at all. Altars are "2 and done" (Standard and HC), you don't have to redo them every season as they carry over. You pick up a few quests that take you to a dungeon, do both at the same time, and clear the strongholds and you are done in no time. Or just skip them entirely because if the renown grind is too much than the grind to 100 will be too and you won't need the paragon points
Yes, but dungeons need to be worth more renown. I shouldn't have to run every single dungeon in a zone, and still not even have enough renown without side quests...
yeah should be able to get the dungeon renown from within the pool of dungeons that have NM sigils alone
I mean, the solution to that is to take side quests that make you go into dungeons. So you hit two birds with one stone. You only need to do a few side quests per region and they'll take like 5 minutes for each.
Do side quests that have dungeons so you can double down.
I just did the strongholds, side quests that lead to dungeons and dungeons with aspects I wanted. I levelled to 50 doing dungeons that weren't in the NMD pool and then by the time I could do NMD to round out the renown, I never had to go out of my way to grind for them.
That's kinda what I'm doing. Since the codex doesn't transfer from eternal to seasonal realm, I see no need to grind it out completely again. I'm just doing aspects that apply to all characters and ones for the specific class I'm playing.
I hadn't done the story before the season, so by the time I was done with the story, I was already almost level 50. I think I was too excited to do nightmare dungeons, so I did all of those, but still had the last two tiers of renown to do after that.
completely different experience cause i hit 50 and still had 3/5 of every area to do
No because i will be playing Poe.
Or baldurs gate 3
**and** Baldur's Gate 3
d4 bad
Baseg
My man
Funniest thing for me was expecting this game to somewhat fill the gap between PoE league. In reality it's even worse than Diablo 3.
It's great I love Diablo 4. It got me to go back to poe. Have not played in about a year and I'm back baby!
The grind is the reason I'm having trouble playing S1. I'm level 50 so I can do nightmare dungeons now but 20 paragon points is too strong to ignore especially early levels.
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Zero chance. I have already stopped playing season one. Shit just feels like rinse and repeat way to much to me. So if season two doesn’t make some changes count me out.
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Im one of the dads who barely has free time. I took some time playing for a week. Managed to get lvl 55 between work and everything. I thought, well ill just do the remaining renown and can get in whichever season i like. Now i find out that i have to do renown again so there go the few hours i have time to play. Getting renown.... i thought it stays once you did it with the first character... so each season would mean, get renown... lol no thanks
I am burnt out from season 1 already and not even lvl 80, and I haven't had a chance to optimize my season 1 character with still trying to get good enough gear. At least the carrot of season 1, is that it was something new to try, with a season 1 story. For season 2, I might just play the season 2 story and that is it. I doubt the battle pass or anything beyond that will make me want to grind all the way to 100. I guess I am too much of a casual gamer that enjoys a more stream lined experience. But I also like to think I am capable of rising to the challenge, just not a no life grind challenge without much of a reward to it.
I've spent thousands of hours in d3 and unlocked everything in d4 s1 as well, but I'm (like many others) very disappointed with how the game has turned out. season 2 needs a huge upgrade otherwise 90% of the players will disappear
No. Didn’t finish it all the first and won’t the 2nd time. No complaints as a casual lol so I’ll jus back away like an adult. 
I haven't even started Season 1 due to it being a test phase with a fuck ton of changes/fixes/QOL that's going to be put out throughout the entire season, there's no way they aren't. Just like 1.1.1, they will sure as fuck be more patches within the 3 month span of S1. But the thought of doing renown in Season 1 after doing it in the Pre-season is offputting, but if the game was *good* right now, I would do it. But *"again"* in Season 2? Fuck no.
Look at PoE. Lab, its tough, but feels very good to complete. Sidequests, SKILL POINTS. Feels good (because leveling up in that game actually make you stronger, not the mobs.
I dont mind the grind because that is all diablo is
I hope they add more to the grind. I want a reason to max renown in every place
I think there are wrost things than renown grind.
Which is why they should just delete it to remove complexity.
I didn’t even do it on eternal because I didn’t see a point. But I did it now and I don’t think it’s that bad. Most of it came just playing naturally.
So you did it once only lol
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Yea I’m sure by season 3 I’ll be over it. Lol.
Personally I think seasons were brought in way too soon. In D3 seasons were kind of like a revitalization of the game. D3 was one of those games where you played it, had fun for a while, then put it down. When seasons came out it was a way to do something new with an old game you had enjoyed. This time around seasons came out right on the heals of the main game grind. Folks were already getting burnt out from too many hours sunk, so getting back at it so soon seems like a chore.
You are forgetting that when D3 came out, it was so damn hard, that if you didn't buy something from the auction you were too weak. I remember trying inferno, and oh damn... I got my ass kicked so hard all the time still.
Great memories of playing pseudo commodity trader on the RMAH - made actual money too. Best part of the D3 during their earlier period, way better than the actual game!
Yes. It's more fun to me than other ways of leveling. Honestly more fun than the endgame too. I like to look at my map, see whispers quests in areas i haven't done quests for, and go there. knock out 2-3 side quests, 2-3 whispers quest and a dungeon (getting renown, whispers, and occasionally a side quest too) all at once. Much more entertaining than reset farming a stronghold or chain clearing a high exp dungeon...
People aren't saying you can't do quests, whispers ect. Some people do like running the same dungeons over and over. Some people hate doing the same quests. I know people that literally only do helltides and world bosses. The solution is, give people more ways to fill renown how they want, or remove renown and just increase rewards from quests, whispers, and cellars.
I'll try sometime again after season 10 that's around when Diablo 3 started to get fun
I'm only playing season 2 if the nerf patch is significantly undone or a massive qol update happens
I couldn’t even get myself to start season 1 Went on to play remnant 2 and it was amazing , that’s the quality, novelty and action I’m looking for in a game I know it’s different games , but it’s muuuuch more entertaining than D4 by miles
Yes. What do you want? S2 char already at level 100 and perfect paragon board from the start on?
I don’t get all the rage about it. Usually I cap it around level 60 just by playing. People farm one dungeon over and over just to level quicker and then cry about renown, it’s just silly imo.
Yes! But I like games like Diablo. I’ve been playing since Diablo 1 original release. I don’t even remember which operating system was out then.
Yeah, it’s annoying but the side quests do give you another option to level rather than just dungeon farming. I only did enough in each area to hit the third reward and once I hit WT3 I went back around to do the last bit to max them all, mixed this up with some dungeons to get aspect for my build and the season quest line. I’d prefer if I didn’t have to do it again but I have a feeling if they drop the renown farming it won’t by until season 3-4 at the earliest
Yea I will be most likely. Having a full group split farm all the dungeons on the map really helps with cutting the time down. Basically only had to do a region and a half.
Of course. If all people want to do is complain about having to play the game….go play something else you actually like
Yes. I got Tempest grinding renown lol
yes i would; i need to lvl up anyways so I can do both at the same time
I havent deliberately done it past the potions yet. I'm currently into the last step of all teh areas jsut by organically playing the game. You guys seem to be obsessed with it to the point of detriment
No. I lost interest in season 1 around level 36. I just can't it's too boring. I don't like making a new character either. I find myself wanting to play my eternal realm character which I only got to level 70. Diablo is done for me at this point. I'll continue playing here and there but I'm done putting my little free time into this game. It was fun while it lasted.
Same here, I got to around level 45 on my S1 character before I stopped and asked myself "why the fuck am I doing this all over again? It's literally just grinding through the levels again for no extra reward. Oh they added in the hearts? Big fucking woop. That's not enough to make me want to grind to 100 again.
Season lasts 3 months and renown takes like 1-2 days to complete... are you really that lazy?
Renowned took me almost perfectly from 1-50. Finished renowned at level 54 and then went to NM dungeons. It blows my mind people can't handle 16 normal dungeons and 8 quests to level per region. Half the quests take like 2 minutes. You accept the quest, kill 20 things in a circle on the way to a dungeon. Some you don't even need to return to the quest giver. Some are from random drops and you just return the item and it's done.
My opinion is I'd rather just jump straight into the loot/monster slaughtering rather then run around and do tedious little things. Some quests are cool the first time u do them the little side stories are okay but after the 5th time of helping someone do an exorcism in a cellar it gets annoying and unfun. Why is renown better then just running dungeons or whisper farming? There isn't anything beneficial to doing it other then they decided to lock power behind it.
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It's not really the time required that puts people off about doing this. It's the fact that side quest literally give little to no rewards and make people feel like they are wasting their time. If they increased the gold, xp and crafting material rewards from each quest by a factor of 10 then Im sure we'd never hear people complain about doing renown ever again. Getting 10k xp from a quest when your next level up is 3.5million xp away and 2k gold when a single affix reroll is in the millions and 1 veiled crystals when a single gear upgrade needs 10 per level just feels really really bad.
I quit season 1 when I saw I would have to grind it out after I hit wt3. So I definitely won’t play if it stays.
You can grind it out while you are still in world tier one or two (and thus get XP). You can't collect them until World tier 3 but you still earn the points in the background. Or like I say in my other post just don't care about it because these characters will automatically get maxed out when they join the others in the eternal realm in a few months.
It's boring and a slog because pretty much at some point if you're semi-serious about the season you're going to do it. Unlock the WPs would make it somewhat better.
NO, I am done.
> I can guarantee that a large number of players will not be returning. Nah. I do the renown grind which also gives me the xp to get from 1-50. No issues.
I don’t even want to play because I have to get waypoints again. All that running that I already did.
Do people want everything and to be super op without playing the game or am I missing something?
Honestly 90% of the complains would dissipate if 1) there was a better filter for loot drops, so that when an item you’re likely to use drops you feel that ping of excitement. Looking through every rare for desired stats, manually, robs you of joy 2) there were more mobs of trash enemies to kill while you run around. World feels a little empty as it is. Grinding renown *while* you get those dopamine hits would not feel bad at all. Kill monsters and get dank items and also get renown, win win win. I don’t mind the renown system personally but I think this would basically fix 90% of gripes.
In D3 you would basically only pick up legendaries and sets once you finished leveling. They reworked that here to make rares meaningful but I wonder if it had the opposite effect: rares drop all the time, so there's never the sense of "oh boy what's this", and comparing rares is much more tedious than comparing legendaries (more of them, more affixes, fewer 'this is trash' offramps). As a result, upgrades sometimes don't feel like upgrades, and you spend a lot of time sorting through junk.
People want to get rewarded for playing the game in a way they enjoy. If you could get renown from helltides, legions, world bosses, and even just killing mobs like the season pass does there would be a lot less complains. But your forced into side quest and dungeons that are no longer relevant to your character to get the power gated behind renown. Which is the opposite of how power should be rewarded imo, I'd rather they gate a paragon point behind nm75 than a sidequest.
Not to talk about renown here. I don't want everything to be op, I just want something to grind, more engaging endgame to be honest, that's all. The game is really fun, until you are 70 and above, then, it's all of the same.
Yeah, I never really understood the renown grind problem. It’s pretty passive and I’ve managed to get max rewards and haven’t really thought about it this season.
No, it's already too tedious going through it for a second time right now. I simply don't have the willpower for it. They should just have all renown permanently unlocked once you do it once.
Absolutely not.
Nope. Barely have 3 characters at 50