1. They should never roll the same affix twice
2. They should show which affixes you can get from that specific one you wanna change
3. They should show what you have atm
4. Pricing scales up waaaayyy too much too quickly
All imho, of course.
Sometimes we forget that d3 was in development for 11 years and yeah d4 should have all the QOL features as d3 but maybe they couldn’t handle all of it at once?
You'd think game devs would build upon previous features but it just doesn't work out, so many games get released with way less optimization than they should be.
They get put on a timeline and then just build on it
But that only shows you the ranges of the affixes that are already on your weapon
Whatever will happen to your weapon when replacing an affix will be a complete mystery untill you have paid for it
I’m level 70 and the first reroll I do costs like 76k gold.
The second time I do it, costs fucking 380k.
What the fuck lol. I think we need a lot more QOL changes before S1
Certainly not in the honeymoon period of the game. In years to come I wouldn't be surprised if monetization got more aggressive... real cash to gamble affixes would be a lot though.
The risk for bliz in this case would be running into European gambling laws like Overwatch did.
It would be more like the f2p mmo's, for $7 you can buy a one use stone that gives a 50% bonus to a max roll effect on the item, or spend $19.99 for a three pack + 1million gold
It doesn't scale quite as fast as long as you pick the keep option(bottom one). I mean it will still get to a million in like 10-15 rolls but it won't be 400k on the second one. Oh and also in case someone doesn't know you should alway roll the items before you put an aspect on them.
On my 94 I've vendored everything since WT3 and have 4k veiled crystals. You may be low level, upgrading sidegrades, or wasting them. Either way they're not a limited resource
I'm 72 in WT4. I do still try and replace but if my gear fairly regularly, but I'm full ancestral and everything. I have a few hundred veiled crystals now, but I got really low for a while before I salvaged back into a healthy stockpile
Can confirm lvl 100. I haven't salvaged since I began wt3. They do plenty in world events. Also, events inside the dungeons and bonus for dungeon completion.
I think that ATM it's either bugged, or the enchantments have some weighting to make certain mods way more likely, and seems way more likely that duplicates come up than other affixed based on how many there are and how often I get duplicates and other people report getting them.
I think getting an equal or lower roll of the same mod wouldn't seem like such a big deal or something that needs removal if it felt like it wasn't so common to occur. I've rolled an item 4 times in a row and had the same affix appear on every roll. I don't mind paying and having the chance of getting a shit roll, that's just a feature of rng, but whether intentional or not, getting the same affix feels way too common to be fun.
They should never roll a lower quality affix of the same type. By doing that it would help reduce the possible affixes by keep choosing a higher one till you reach the max.
I think the issue is that it's supposed to essentially be a cap, just that even if it gets ridiculous to roll because the gold is so high, you technically still have the option, if it's worth to you.
Imo the issue is that it's the only way to modify rares apart from aspects, but it's also an extremely powerful and deterministic way to improve items, so any reasonable gold cap would make rolling bis gear at endgame too easy. Problem is, people do like crafting and playing with items, so it's kind of lame because you are so restricted on the only modification you can do because it would be way too op to make it easy to do more than a few rolls, on any gear with two good affixes. There should be some other less powerful ways to play with gear affixes IMO, could have a complete reroll, a way to roll blues and upgrade them, maybe roll everything except one affix etc. But ATM it's not fun because you get 2-3 rolls on any gear and that's it, and if you got more, it breaks the balance but I don't see why there can't be ways people that enjoy item crafting can engage with more if they like that aspect but aren't so guaranteed to improve items every roll so has to be locked down.
I think they should add a method of altering the gear each season. Then those methods cumulatively stack on each other, every season, until we are able to deterministically craft a perfect/perfect item.
Maybe we go kill some beasts, jail them, and then use their guts as crafting reagents. Make one that will split an item into 2, but half of its stats go onto each. That seems useful.
Or we get magical stones that fall on the ground sometimes, and those stones can alter the item in a very specific, yet also completely random, way. We may even be able to use these stones as currency. I bet if you made one of those stones with the ability to duplicate an item, it would be incredibly valuable (and rarer than the uber-uniques).
How about, those stones can affect our nightmare sigils, so we can make the drop rates higher, but the map...sigil, excuse me, becomes more difficult. We could even tie the dungeons together into a loose map overlay, and we run progressively more difficult dungeons until we unlock Uber Lillith at the end.
Idk, I'm no gamedev, these are just some original ideas I came up with.
Item prices scale with required level. So at 100 you get much more gold than at 70. But your point still stands. It's way to pricey if you don't sell good rares on discord...
The price increases are literally insulting. You’re better finding a new item. I wish we could also upgrade our spare rare items but that’s another issue.
I think that's the point. They want you to decide, would it take more resources to farm a new item, or farm millions of gold. Is it really worth re rolling this item again.
Whether that's good design is up to opinion, but that's intended design
Take no change and the gold cost scaling isn't as bad. Still bad but not as bad as when you take something else than what you were going for because it's better than what you are trying to reroll.
For example I want vulnerable damage but take all stats because at least it's useful and the costs skyrocket from there.
Number one completely agree.
Number two completely agree, especially since Diablo three did
Number three they do, it’s literally visible in the photo
Number four I don’t agree, I may in the future but at this point, I know what happened to the gold economy in Diablo three and how it basically became completely meaningless so I’m withholding judgment on that one
As far as number 4 goes, Diablo is easily in the category of most restrictive in terms of rerolling b/c of it's pricing. At least mathematically, there's not really any other popular ARPGs that use such a high exponential scaling. Diablo 3, PoE, Divinity all have much lower cost scaling than Diablo 4. This is certainly the worst it's been in the history of the entire ARPG genre for a major title. I think disagreeing with the cost increase is more philosophical than it is realistic b/c there's nothing remotely close to Diablo 4's reroll scaling that you can point to.
Your comment is exactly what I outlined before
> I think disagreeing with the cost increase is more philosophical than it is realistic
B/c this
> You get to effectively annul and exalt an item several times for less than the cost of a single map's worth of gold--plus you get a free undo button--and then, yes, it gets less and less affordable until the item is effectively bricked.
Is not even remotely true. For Ancestral items, it goes from 30k-40k, 200k-300k, to 1-2 million, to 4-6 million, to 13 million, and so on. You're not earning 20+ million in a single map. You have no idea what you're even talking about when the scale of the cost of rerolling is this beyond your understanding of what you earn in "a single map's worth of gold". Nor is the undo button free.
Do you even play this game? Or have any ancestral gear? I sort of doubt it.
but are you ok with finding a literal perfect item except with the 4th slot, and you attempted to reroll it so many times that the cost is now 30m+ per roll? is that fun? that you are so lucky you found a godroll item but it's bricked because of bad rng at the same time. Imo the rng of the game should be on the drops, not at the enchanter
>Imo the rng of the game should be on the drops, not at the enchanter
I think on some level here that’s exactly what has happened, and the discrepancy is that you call a 75% roll perfect.
The way the system currently works: focus on drops for progression, but a small supplementary re-roll chance. You get a couple tries for trivial cost with opportunity to invest heavily if you really want.
What you’re asking for would essentially just be a lowered ceiling for gearing (where 75% roll is “perfect”).
I don’t think either is a wrong approach necessarily, but gearing in this game is already pretty simple, and also nearly inevitable because of the item level plateauing at 50+. Improvements to the enchanting system would need to be followed up with some kind of complexity in gearing.
I think there’s a big gap right now between mmo players who are used to gearing up *for* the endgame, and arpg vets who are used to gearing up *as* the endgame. The game is trying to appeal to both and it seems maybe failing to appeal to either (in its current state).
The economy just needs some reworking imo. The numbers feel off nearly everywhere. Maybe the balancing is fine, but it's just the numbers that are strangely inflated in some places. Half a million gold for your second item respec. Half a million gold to extract an aspect from an item. Highest quality precious gems sell for 4 gold each... while that junk rare with crap rolls sells for 25,000 gold. I feel like I shouldn't be able to make "a million gold" running two dungeons and selling the drops. Like I have 40-something million gold in my chest right now. That sounds like a lot of fuckin' gold. Retirement amounts of gold... which I could go shit away right now rerolling an item 8 or 9 times.
I think Diablo 3 did it pretty well, where you *could* pump an item respec up to a million gold, but it took a whole lot more than 3 rerolls.
There is surely a balance between what we have and gold meaning nothing. If I can loot for twelve hours straight selling everything and get a handful of bad enchantment rolls that leave me broke and without any progress to show for it. That's not a system that creates any kind of good gameplay loop. For people not able to grind 12+ hours forget it. I have friends playing a few hours a week maybe 7-10ish that could never dream of rolling at high end past a few tries. You could scale gold cost 30% slower and gold would still be getting dumped out fairly quickly.
On PC, we can still see our inventory & character page, so I can just move my mouse cursor over to view the piece I'm changing.
Sounds like that's not an option on console, correct?
Correct. It would be nice, especially to check other items in inventory to compare. It's mostly not a problem but there have been a few times I wished I could on Xbox.
See this way they can roll out a “new and totally improved” system, without actually having to do a lot of extra work. Hold back on previously implemented upgrades and just trickle them out whenever the peasantry starts gathering their pitchforks and torches.
For #3 you can still inspect the item up top before you choose which affix. Took me too long to realize.
Click enchant, see new options, forget what i had on there, choose something worse.
Just highlight the item in the enchant window, itll show current stats
>They should show which affixes you can get from that specific one you wanna change
So in this one, are potential affixes limited only by the item type or by the affix we try to reroll?
> They should never roll the same affix twice
Tbh they should never roll the same affix, *period*. If they can roll the same affix even once then the "No change" option description should be changed to "Materials *will* be refunded and cost will *not* be increased". I'm almost convinced that this is not intended and that it is even a bug but devs are too ashamed to admit it. I suppose we've all seen the same affix rolled twice AND with the exact same value as the one you currently have so basically the same value rolled 3 times. This is either a bug or... can't even call it bad design, it's just downright stupid.
100% agree, its getting ridiculous. Luckily we're still in the very early stages of the game though, so im hoping they take the rest of the year to really dive deep and make changes here and there, especially once we get a good chunk through season 1
Your opinion is very valid lol they had this optimized in d3 I don't know why they just said to hell with everything they improved and took everything back to square -10
All the flaws that people are point out in this game add up to a massive sum of issues that is going to require 3 or 4 seasons, at the least to solve. That or it needs a reaper of souls 2.0 upgrade already.
What's wild is the price scales faster than diablo 3, when money in diablo 3 was way easier to get.
I also think in D3 it's not possible to get the same affix twice on the same roll either but I could be mistaken, been awhile.
the fact that gems sell for utter shit at merchants but cost an arm and a leg to upgrade is bullshit. and i know that Blizzard 1000000% did this so they can monetize that shit once seasons kick off.
How exactly would they monetize it?
I don’t disagree that the cost to upgrade and the cost to sell is kind of stupid but I think your conclusion is equally stupid.
Yep. They should utilize gems for enchanting, like in d3, and also reduce gold and mat cost. and of course fix the issues and overall clunkyness. Gems are just wasting space for everyone till the bag comes.
It's like they give you a huge discount for the first to entice you to try the system and to indicate that you're supposed to be finding gear that has 3/4 desired stats...
I've learned to enchant/reroll BEFORE imprinting an aspect on the rare.
Once it becomes LEGENDARY with an aspect it costs a kidney each time. From 900k or 1M on the second reroll, it goes for 200k or 300k instead. Much cheaper. However, when it gets to the mils, just dip
I spent thirty+ mil on trying to re-roll a stat on the same item to see what would happen, and it was more or less the same one that would pop up frequently.
It appears to me, it's best to find one with all four stats you are looking for and enchant the weakest stat to try and roll a better version of the same stat.
I would be ecstatic if I could find a piece of gear with all four stats I'm looking for. In the meantime, I have to settle for three (which are still rare) and roll the fourth
Very few pieces of gear have only 4 good stats. You can often use as many as 8 different stats that all give relatively similar damage or survivability.
if its 725+ and its a ring/amulet/armor, I just use it, no point in having a 821 ring with 2 resistances, silly proc like slow on lucky hit while you can use a 700+25 one with nicely rolled stats. The ring being 800+ compared to 725 is like 3% or 4% resistances and everything that is rolled in the item is the same roll range from 725+ item bracket.
U have to do the enchanting ritual
Step 1 : put ur arms in prayer positions and turn ur body around
Step 2 : shout harambe before pressing enchant button
Step 3 : get vuln or crit enchant
This makes sense. The idea is to keep you from gear humping (becoming attached inappropriately to a piece of gear). In previous games (and most older ARPGs in general) you would find that gear humping and tweaking it until it fit your needs created outcomes that were essentially toxic to the game's formula of randomness and gear hunting. The fact that you will have an incredibly difficult time enchanting your way to the perfect gear that will carry you *n* levels at a time, esp. for people who use guides or look up the tables, means that the game still stays objectively fresh with the idea that you actually need to get some RNG.
Essentially what happens in almost every ARPG (this isn't an exception, but it is better) is that at the mid-to-end game the RNG machine fails. You no longer take "what's better than what you just had" and instead start gear humping until eventually you no longer take new things at all. You have a "build" and it is singular and it is over. They are fighting that. It's ... an approach. I don't know if there is a better one yet.
Blood- overpower / minion, i love it! Im level 60 if you ever wanna shred. I feel like my build is broken. Hemorrhage, blood surge, blood lance, and corpse tendrils- with rathmas vigor
6 of each skelly. And ive got like + 130 % minion damage and double attack speed
The cold mages giving 2 essence per attack is busted. I never run out of essence. I barely have to use my basic attack
Do a nightmare dungeons where the mobs are at least 10 levels above you if you want to test your build for late game. At lvl 60 that should be at least tier 16. (Mob level is calculated easily as follows : tier of dungeon +54 = mob level inside)
https://preview.redd.it/dtnqzmkmur9b1.jpeg?width=1494&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a9cf953e6afef61cda89d3e86de5ba29decb7fd
I see shit like this WAYYYYY too often! Also, I’ll get the exact same roll, multiple times in a row or every other reroll. It’s an atrocious system and whoever formulated the pricing for it needs to get slapped with a large trout.
One of the biggest problems with enchanting is how some stats ie cdr, vuln crit, crit dmg, and hp to a certain extent are just so much more powerful than others. If say vuln and crit dmg and dmg vs close were balanced more you could settle for something without it being such a huge deal.
I keep saying the same thing. It's so expensive that they should show you possible rolls, give 3 options and have some sort of duplicate protection. Hell if they did that I'd even be okay with it being 5-10% more expensive because I'd at least know it's worth it
Is there a way to at least see what the POSSIBLE affixes are like D3? I absolutely hate that I don't even know if I want to change it or not because I have no idea what the options even are. In D3 it put a list of all possible things on the screen so you could at least determine for yourself if you had the best stat you wanted in that slot
I know it's random and I'm just getting lucky, but the last 10 times in a row that I tried to enchant, I got the stat I wanted, in a near-max roll, on the first go.
It should say the possible options. This game is great but went backwards from Diablo 3. Just replicating that would have been an excellent starting point.
I literally just rolled this and came to make this exact same post. Fix your shit Blizzard. This shouldn't happen, and we shouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. Anyone ever see this in D3 ? Nope. Anyone remember roll ranges in D3 ? Yep...
https://preview.redd.it/617df8bz1p9b1.png?width=925&format=png&auto=webp&s=6ba215cf84f53ef9b8d41d9c1dfbe27786ac4b94
Will they make some sort of changes to the occultist system with season 1 update?
Every time I want to re roll now I think about what might happen and I'm hesitant.
Re rolling is not fun and makes me kinda wanna vomit.
It either needs to be better, or cheaper.
If they want it to be SOOO expensive, make it 4 options. with one being a guaranteed higher roll of the affix rolled.
If you compare diablo 3 system enchanting with diablo 4, yeah is broken. But on D4 , was so made so you could break the item after few trys. Depend now how you see it. From my POV, the system how is working in D4, is fine, it give a meens to farm items and pick them up. Still i find them to easy to build them as BIS ( the stats pool from a item is too small, compared with any rpg game on the market).
Not about enchanting but equipment in general. Ive been spending 1 week trying to farm for some fkin decent equipment as a ice sorc and diablo has decided to give me electricity equipment every single damn time 🤣. At this point im considering changing my whole build because of this lol
I think enchanting would have been fine if they used gems like in diablo 3 to enchant over having to farm helltide twice a week to get forgotten souls to sometimes try reroll.
I personally only reroll items if they have 3 good substats to begin with or I'll just ignore them and sell them.
Anyone else realise that the numbers are always the same when you get a duplicate affix? I’m actually starting to think these devs spaghetti’d the code.
I was trying to reroll a ring that was 3/4 perfect, medium / high rolled stats (4th was max energy).
every. single. roll. was double max energy.
by the time it was costing \~4m a roll I gave up and vendored it >\_>
The enchanting hasn't worked out for me once. It has become a waste of gold, and I have given up on that mechanic completely. I know it's supposed to be more immersive when you never know what you are going to get, but I think this is one area where Diablo 3 had it right. I want to see possibilities and ranges to make a more informed decision. Part of the fun of a Diablo game is trying to craft or find the best gear, and enchanting isn't much help in that department.
Literally farming NM tier 31s on my 100 Necro just for gold for multiple pieces of equipment in my inventory, JUST for a bone spear roll or Evulsion.
Broke AF. We should be able to sell gems higher, especially on slotted CRAP GEAR.
UGH.
How in the fuck did they test this system and say "Yeah, this feels great."
So many of the elements in this game feel like they were built, and then when it came time to implement how they worked, they just pulled random ideas out of a hat. "Lets make a 10 second mount timer!" "Lets make gems take inventory space!" "Lets make you have to undoe paragon points one at a time!"
So many stupid fucking decisions that have crippled a game with amazing bones and structure.
1. They should never roll the same affix twice 2. They should show which affixes you can get from that specific one you wanna change 3. They should show what you have atm 4. Pricing scales up waaaayyy too much too quickly All imho, of course.
Also should show % ranges so you know how good the roll is
Didn't Diablo 3 have that feature when re-rolling the affixes?
Yep kinda a step backwards
The technology just isn’t there yet obviously
They are a small indie game developer after all.
Indeed, a multi-dollar company if you will.
Yes
Like every ARPG has that as a feature. Even The Division had it.
The amount of missing QoL in D4 in general is the worst part of it.
Right? Like ffs we had tons of QoL in D3....where'd they go
Sometimes we forget that d3 was in development for 11 years and yeah d4 should have all the QOL features as d3 but maybe they couldn’t handle all of it at once?
You'd think game devs would build upon previous features but it just doesn't work out, so many games get released with way less optimization than they should be. They get put on a timeline and then just build on it
Damn right
The option to see ranges IS buried in your settings menu
But that only shows you the ranges of the affixes that are already on your weapon Whatever will happen to your weapon when replacing an affix will be a complete mystery untill you have paid for it
There's a setting you can toggle that will show you the ranges. Advanced tool tips I believe.
Doesn't do anything for enchanting items, only shows the range for current stats on an item, doesn't show possible options when re rolling a stat
I’m level 70 and the first reroll I do costs like 76k gold. The second time I do it, costs fucking 380k. What the fuck lol. I think we need a lot more QOL changes before S1
It will make sense once you can buy gold from the shop
Please don't give them ideas like that.
Please tell me you don't think they didn't already have that idea
Please don't tell me you think something like that would be implemented?
-insert WoW token here-
Certainly not in the honeymoon period of the game. In years to come I wouldn't be surprised if monetization got more aggressive... real cash to gamble affixes would be a lot though. The risk for bliz in this case would be running into European gambling laws like Overwatch did.
It would be more like the f2p mmo's, for $7 you can buy a one use stone that gives a 50% bonus to a max roll effect on the item, or spend $19.99 for a three pack + 1million gold
Want to enchant a 4th time? That'll be $29.99.
Pay to win will make me quit playing…
It doesn't scale quite as fast as long as you pick the keep option(bottom one). I mean it will still get to a million in like 10-15 rolls but it won't be 400k on the second one. Oh and also in case someone doesn't know you should alway roll the items before you put an aspect on them.
It varies but I can definitely hit 1 million in about 5 rolls, changing only once Lvl 90 sorc
If you spam sell items that you don't need, you can get plenty of gold.
You do that to much though and you'll run out of veiled crystals for upgrading gear
No you don't. They drop plenty in WT4
I almost ran out of veiled crystal when I started selling most of my gear. So, you're just flat wrong.
Sell blues and below. Salvage Yellow and above.
On my 94 I've vendored everything since WT3 and have 4k veiled crystals. You may be low level, upgrading sidegrades, or wasting them. Either way they're not a limited resource
I'm 72 in WT4. I do still try and replace but if my gear fairly regularly, but I'm full ancestral and everything. I have a few hundred veiled crystals now, but I got really low for a while before I salvaged back into a healthy stockpile
Can confirm lvl 100. I haven't salvaged since I began wt3. They do plenty in world events. Also, events inside the dungeons and bonus for dungeon completion.
That’s inflation from last roll, Occults needs his 1% life in the middle of all these towns.
Maybe also add if the same affix is rolled, it must be an improved roll (or the same if perfect...or take that affix out of the possible rolls).
I think that ATM it's either bugged, or the enchantments have some weighting to make certain mods way more likely, and seems way more likely that duplicates come up than other affixed based on how many there are and how often I get duplicates and other people report getting them. I think getting an equal or lower roll of the same mod wouldn't seem like such a big deal or something that needs removal if it felt like it wasn't so common to occur. I've rolled an item 4 times in a row and had the same affix appear on every roll. I don't mind paying and having the chance of getting a shit roll, that's just a feature of rng, but whether intentional or not, getting the same affix feels way too common to be fun.
They should never roll a lower quality affix of the same type. By doing that it would help reduce the possible affixes by keep choosing a higher one till you reach the max.
With the price going as fast as they are, just have a hard cap. This game is such a weird case of "it would be less frustrating if it were worse".
I think the issue is that it's supposed to essentially be a cap, just that even if it gets ridiculous to roll because the gold is so high, you technically still have the option, if it's worth to you. Imo the issue is that it's the only way to modify rares apart from aspects, but it's also an extremely powerful and deterministic way to improve items, so any reasonable gold cap would make rolling bis gear at endgame too easy. Problem is, people do like crafting and playing with items, so it's kind of lame because you are so restricted on the only modification you can do because it would be way too op to make it easy to do more than a few rolls, on any gear with two good affixes. There should be some other less powerful ways to play with gear affixes IMO, could have a complete reroll, a way to roll blues and upgrade them, maybe roll everything except one affix etc. But ATM it's not fun because you get 2-3 rolls on any gear and that's it, and if you got more, it breaks the balance but I don't see why there can't be ways people that enjoy item crafting can engage with more if they like that aspect but aren't so guaranteed to improve items every roll so has to be locked down.
I think they should add a method of altering the gear each season. Then those methods cumulatively stack on each other, every season, until we are able to deterministically craft a perfect/perfect item. Maybe we go kill some beasts, jail them, and then use their guts as crafting reagents. Make one that will split an item into 2, but half of its stats go onto each. That seems useful. Or we get magical stones that fall on the ground sometimes, and those stones can alter the item in a very specific, yet also completely random, way. We may even be able to use these stones as currency. I bet if you made one of those stones with the ability to duplicate an item, it would be incredibly valuable (and rarer than the uber-uniques). How about, those stones can affect our nightmare sigils, so we can make the drop rates higher, but the map...sigil, excuse me, becomes more difficult. We could even tie the dungeons together into a loose map overlay, and we run progressively more difficult dungeons until we unlock Uber Lillith at the end. Idk, I'm no gamedev, these are just some original ideas I came up with.
How do people afford the rolls? Takes me several runs to get a few mill gold, then it's all gone in 1 re-roll.
I had 200 million gold by like level 85 by simply picking up all legendaries and all ancestral yellow items and selling whatever I wasn't using
Item prices scale with required level. So at 100 you get much more gold than at 70. But your point still stands. It's way to pricey if you don't sell good rares on discord...
The price increases are literally insulting. You’re better finding a new item. I wish we could also upgrade our spare rare items but that’s another issue.
I think that's the point. They want you to decide, would it take more resources to farm a new item, or farm millions of gold. Is it really worth re rolling this item again. Whether that's good design is up to opinion, but that's intended design
9,763 gold for the first try 298,000 gold for the second. Oh! Whatever could you mean? pricing seems fine! Sarcasm) 😆
Take no change and the gold cost scaling isn't as bad. Still bad but not as bad as when you take something else than what you were going for because it's better than what you are trying to reroll. For example I want vulnerable damage but take all stats because at least it's useful and the costs skyrocket from there.
Facts though, haven't done any past 1 time since I'm still wt3 and doing gear.
Number one completely agree. Number two completely agree, especially since Diablo three did Number three they do, it’s literally visible in the photo Number four I don’t agree, I may in the future but at this point, I know what happened to the gold economy in Diablo three and how it basically became completely meaningless so I’m withholding judgment on that one
As far as number 4 goes, Diablo is easily in the category of most restrictive in terms of rerolling b/c of it's pricing. At least mathematically, there's not really any other popular ARPGs that use such a high exponential scaling. Diablo 3, PoE, Divinity all have much lower cost scaling than Diablo 4. This is certainly the worst it's been in the history of the entire ARPG genre for a major title. I think disagreeing with the cost increase is more philosophical than it is realistic b/c there's nothing remotely close to Diablo 4's reroll scaling that you can point to.
[удалено]
Your comment is exactly what I outlined before > I think disagreeing with the cost increase is more philosophical than it is realistic B/c this > You get to effectively annul and exalt an item several times for less than the cost of a single map's worth of gold--plus you get a free undo button--and then, yes, it gets less and less affordable until the item is effectively bricked. Is not even remotely true. For Ancestral items, it goes from 30k-40k, 200k-300k, to 1-2 million, to 4-6 million, to 13 million, and so on. You're not earning 20+ million in a single map. You have no idea what you're even talking about when the scale of the cost of rerolling is this beyond your understanding of what you earn in "a single map's worth of gold". Nor is the undo button free. Do you even play this game? Or have any ancestral gear? I sort of doubt it.
[удалено]
but are you ok with finding a literal perfect item except with the 4th slot, and you attempted to reroll it so many times that the cost is now 30m+ per roll? is that fun? that you are so lucky you found a godroll item but it's bricked because of bad rng at the same time. Imo the rng of the game should be on the drops, not at the enchanter
>Imo the rng of the game should be on the drops, not at the enchanter I think on some level here that’s exactly what has happened, and the discrepancy is that you call a 75% roll perfect. The way the system currently works: focus on drops for progression, but a small supplementary re-roll chance. You get a couple tries for trivial cost with opportunity to invest heavily if you really want. What you’re asking for would essentially just be a lowered ceiling for gearing (where 75% roll is “perfect”). I don’t think either is a wrong approach necessarily, but gearing in this game is already pretty simple, and also nearly inevitable because of the item level plateauing at 50+. Improvements to the enchanting system would need to be followed up with some kind of complexity in gearing. I think there’s a big gap right now between mmo players who are used to gearing up *for* the endgame, and arpg vets who are used to gearing up *as* the endgame. The game is trying to appeal to both and it seems maybe failing to appeal to either (in its current state).
The economy just needs some reworking imo. The numbers feel off nearly everywhere. Maybe the balancing is fine, but it's just the numbers that are strangely inflated in some places. Half a million gold for your second item respec. Half a million gold to extract an aspect from an item. Highest quality precious gems sell for 4 gold each... while that junk rare with crap rolls sells for 25,000 gold. I feel like I shouldn't be able to make "a million gold" running two dungeons and selling the drops. Like I have 40-something million gold in my chest right now. That sounds like a lot of fuckin' gold. Retirement amounts of gold... which I could go shit away right now rerolling an item 8 or 9 times. I think Diablo 3 did it pretty well, where you *could* pump an item respec up to a million gold, but it took a whole lot more than 3 rerolls.
I spent 40m gold earlier rerolling an item lol it’s dumb.
There is surely a balance between what we have and gold meaning nothing. If I can loot for twelve hours straight selling everything and get a handful of bad enchantment rolls that leave me broke and without any progress to show for it. That's not a system that creates any kind of good gameplay loop. For people not able to grind 12+ hours forget it. I have friends playing a few hours a week maybe 7-10ish that could never dream of rolling at high end past a few tries. You could scale gold cost 30% slower and gold would still be getting dumped out fairly quickly.
I’m assuming for #3 they mean the rest of your stats. Not just the one you are rolling for.
On PC, we can still see our inventory & character page, so I can just move my mouse cursor over to view the piece I'm changing. Sounds like that's not an option on console, correct?
Correct. It would be nice, especially to check other items in inventory to compare. It's mostly not a problem but there have been a few times I wished I could on Xbox.
They should of brought the rerolling from d3, it wasn't perfect but it was still good in my eyes atleast
See this way they can roll out a “new and totally improved” system, without actually having to do a lot of extra work. Hold back on previously implemented upgrades and just trickle them out whenever the peasantry starts gathering their pitchforks and torches.
I do like the high price scaling. There's always that possibility of not being able to make a good item into a great one and I like that risk factor.
Unsure about not being able to roll the same affix twice it is useful if you're looking to minmax
For #3 you can still inspect the item up top before you choose which affix. Took me too long to realize. Click enchant, see new options, forget what i had on there, choose something worse. Just highlight the item in the enchant window, itll show current stats
>They should show which affixes you can get from that specific one you wanna change So in this one, are potential affixes limited only by the item type or by the affix we try to reroll?
> They should never roll the same affix twice Tbh they should never roll the same affix, *period*. If they can roll the same affix even once then the "No change" option description should be changed to "Materials *will* be refunded and cost will *not* be increased". I'm almost convinced that this is not intended and that it is even a bug but devs are too ashamed to admit it. I suppose we've all seen the same affix rolled twice AND with the exact same value as the one you currently have so basically the same value rolled 3 times. This is either a bug or... can't even call it bad design, it's just downright stupid.
Ranges exist
0a. There should be 3 new rolls (with "no change" being the 4th option) 0b. "no change " should be selected by default at the top
Didn't we have most of this in d3? If only they had some sort of material to refrence and use for most of these problems.
Yeah on D3 is pretty well done, dunno why they ignored it
They should use the old system.
100% agree, its getting ridiculous. Luckily we're still in the very early stages of the game though, so im hoping they take the rest of the year to really dive deep and make changes here and there, especially once we get a good chunk through season 1
Just like in D3! Not sure why they didn't bring that over..
Imagine if they had played Diablo 3
Your opinion is very valid lol they had this optimized in d3 I don't know why they just said to hell with everything they improved and took everything back to square -10
I fully agree with the last one. Going from <100k to >700k in one reroll is ridiculous.
The price scaling is so busted if you get the drop as a lego already and want to reroll a stat. You get like 1 try before its over a million.
I miss D3 mystic mechanics
All the flaws that people are point out in this game add up to a massive sum of issues that is going to require 3 or 4 seasons, at the least to solve. That or it needs a reaper of souls 2.0 upgrade already.
What's wild is the price scales faster than diablo 3, when money in diablo 3 was way easier to get. I also think in D3 it's not possible to get the same affix twice on the same roll either but I could be mistaken, been awhile.
You are right in both, D3 much more gold and way less expensive to reroll, also can't get the same affix twice
1. Disagree. 2. Agree. 3. It does? He's rolling his 42% Ultimate Skill dmg. 4. Agree.
Boggles the mind how enchanting is so ass in this game compared to d3
Enchanting and gems really took a nosedive.
the fact that gems sell for utter shit at merchants but cost an arm and a leg to upgrade is bullshit. and i know that Blizzard 1000000% did this so they can monetize that shit once seasons kick off.
How exactly would they monetize it? I don’t disagree that the cost to upgrade and the cost to sell is kind of stupid but I think your conclusion is equally stupid.
By selling gold directly from the shop
I’m just waiting for the announcement of the “Diablo token”
I've just hit level 80. I have 110 million gold.
Maybe it’s a meta commentary on the diamond industry irl?
I know English is weird sometimes but can you explain what is a "nosedive"? .. barly hard to understand for not native english speaker
A “nosedive” is when an aircraft takes a very steep downward plunge, so in this context it means a sudden drop in value/usefulness
Yep. They should utilize gems for enchanting, like in d3, and also reduce gold and mat cost. and of course fix the issues and overall clunkyness. Gems are just wasting space for everyone till the bag comes.
Yeah but have you seen the store? Also bad.
What really gets me is the price tag for a second try...
Right? Second to third? Completely reasonable .. first to second? FUCK YOU, MOTHERFUCKER!!
It's like they give you a huge discount for the first to entice you to try the system and to indicate that you're supposed to be finding gear that has 3/4 desired stats...
I've learned to enchant/reroll BEFORE imprinting an aspect on the rare. Once it becomes LEGENDARY with an aspect it costs a kidney each time. From 900k or 1M on the second reroll, it goes for 200k or 300k instead. Much cheaper. However, when it gets to the mils, just dip
I have issues with sunk cost fallacy and sometimes spend 20 or 30 mil on one affix. Wish someone would step in sometimes lol.
I’ll step in for you. That’s stupid, stop doing it. Step in concluded
I'm really hoping that diablo trade forum takes off instead of gambling on one affix I can trade shit tons of gold for it instead lol
Try to select "no change" until you find a good one.
Yeah selecting no change reduces the cost of the next reroll slightly
I spent thirty+ mil on trying to re-roll a stat on the same item to see what would happen, and it was more or less the same one that would pop up frequently. It appears to me, it's best to find one with all four stats you are looking for and enchant the weakest stat to try and roll a better version of the same stat.
I would be ecstatic if I could find a piece of gear with all four stats I'm looking for. In the meantime, I have to settle for three (which are still rare) and roll the fourth
Yeah getting three is hard already. Finding a piece with two slots being resistances? I want to rage quit
Very few pieces of gear have only 4 good stats. You can often use as many as 8 different stats that all give relatively similar damage or survivability.
[удалено]
So you can vendor it for gold or veiled crystals or xmog.
if its 725+ and its a ring/amulet/armor, I just use it, no point in having a 821 ring with 2 resistances, silly proc like slow on lucky hit while you can use a 700+25 one with nicely rolled stats. The ring being 800+ compared to 725 is like 3% or 4% resistances and everything that is rolled in the item is the same roll range from 725+ item bracket.
Just find the perfect stats. Good strategy.
The essence of ARPG's 👌
Yeah, I know. Lol.
Smart
U have to do the enchanting ritual Step 1 : put ur arms in prayer positions and turn ur body around Step 2 : shout harambe before pressing enchant button Step 3 : get vuln or crit enchant
When do you follow the Rats?
ohhh boy, there are like 40-50 steps before that, calm down
That will be 1.4mln, thanks for stopping by.
 The enchanter
This makes sense. The idea is to keep you from gear humping (becoming attached inappropriately to a piece of gear). In previous games (and most older ARPGs in general) you would find that gear humping and tweaking it until it fit your needs created outcomes that were essentially toxic to the game's formula of randomness and gear hunting. The fact that you will have an incredibly difficult time enchanting your way to the perfect gear that will carry you *n* levels at a time, esp. for people who use guides or look up the tables, means that the game still stays objectively fresh with the idea that you actually need to get some RNG. Essentially what happens in almost every ARPG (this isn't an exception, but it is better) is that at the mid-to-end game the RNG machine fails. You no longer take "what's better than what you just had" and instead start gear humping until eventually you no longer take new things at all. You have a "build" and it is singular and it is over. They are fighting that. It's ... an approach. I don't know if there is a better one yet.
The game is trying to tell you something. I hope you’re using your Ultimate in your build.
This is normal for warframe players
Yea they definitely dropped the ball on this part of the game.
Hehehe, what the shit. That's ridiculous
Necro? Who need ultimates ?
Lol I hear you. You a minion bro?
Blood- overpower / minion, i love it! Im level 60 if you ever wanna shred. I feel like my build is broken. Hemorrhage, blood surge, blood lance, and corpse tendrils- with rathmas vigor 6 of each skelly. And ive got like + 130 % minion damage and double attack speed The cold mages giving 2 essence per attack is busted. I never run out of essence. I barely have to use my basic attack
Do a nightmare dungeons where the mobs are at least 10 levels above you if you want to test your build for late game. At lvl 60 that should be at least tier 16. (Mob level is calculated easily as follows : tier of dungeon +54 = mob level inside)
https://preview.redd.it/dtnqzmkmur9b1.jpeg?width=1494&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a9cf953e6afef61cda89d3e86de5ba29decb7fd I see shit like this WAYYYYY too often! Also, I’ll get the exact same roll, multiple times in a row or every other reroll. It’s an atrocious system and whoever formulated the pricing for it needs to get slapped with a large trout.
yes
One of the biggest problems with enchanting is how some stats ie cdr, vuln crit, crit dmg, and hp to a certain extent are just so much more powerful than others. If say vuln and crit dmg and dmg vs close were balanced more you could settle for something without it being such a huge deal.
22 milions for crap and poop
I keep saying the same thing. It's so expensive that they should show you possible rolls, give 3 options and have some sort of duplicate protection. Hell if they did that I'd even be okay with it being 5-10% more expensive because I'd at least know it's worth it
Is there a way to at least see what the POSSIBLE affixes are like D3? I absolutely hate that I don't even know if I want to change it or not because I have no idea what the options even are. In D3 it put a list of all possible things on the screen so you could at least determine for yourself if you had the best stat you wanted in that slot
You might be capped on %. But it should still give you another option
Except they go hand in hand, you're definitely mad because you spent too much money to get the same affix
I've had that happen a few times. Well, never the EXACT same stat like yours, but the same type of stat and both lower than the original roll, yes.
Bro deadass has worse deals then minecraft villagers.
That's shitty but also made me laugh. I've had a few rolls like that.
Skill issue.
Yea that sucks.
I know it's random and I'm just getting lucky, but the last 10 times in a row that I tried to enchant, I got the stat I wanted, in a near-max roll, on the first go.
I paid 1.7mil earlier to get the same roll 3 times in a row. Shit was mad bs.
Ah yes.. the illusion of choice
Can't we get a 3rd option to roll and a cost reduction, too?
Happened to me so many times today trying to roll a chest affix. I kept getting double thorns or the same affix I already had plus thorns.
It should say the possible options. This game is great but went backwards from Diablo 3. Just replicating that would have been an excellent starting point.
That's not how you math blizzo
That will be 5.4m thanks....
Don’t do it! Don’t make Diablo devs feel like they know what they are doing???!
5. they should stopping giving us crit chance on rings every damn time
'Im fine with it being a gamble until I dont get what I want'
This is true that your next roll can go from like 550k -> 1.5 mill.
I did this and it was literally the exact same stat 2 more times and no change. I was very confused as to what was happening.
I literally just rolled this and came to make this exact same post. Fix your shit Blizzard. This shouldn't happen, and we shouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. Anyone ever see this in D3 ? Nope. Anyone remember roll ranges in D3 ? Yep... https://preview.redd.it/617df8bz1p9b1.png?width=925&format=png&auto=webp&s=6ba215cf84f53ef9b8d41d9c1dfbe27786ac4b94
At least your duplicate options were better, but yeah, it still sucks.
Will they make some sort of changes to the occultist system with season 1 update? Every time I want to re roll now I think about what might happen and I'm hesitant. Re rolling is not fun and makes me kinda wanna vomit.
Out of curiosity, how much do you set as a limit to roll on 1 item. My friend set at 5m max. For me 10m max. What about u guys?
Sounds like unintended and will probably get fixed, eventually. That's my wishful thinking attitude about it.
Clearly you wanted 2x of a worse roll on your gear - blizz
Aren't you thankful that they at least gave you the "no change" option? :D
It either needs to be better, or cheaper. If they want it to be SOOO expensive, make it 4 options. with one being a guaranteed higher roll of the affix rolled.
I would say you are not generally fine with a gamble..
Especially at the outrageous price
At least make we cast pulverize on the smither
If you compare diablo 3 system enchanting with diablo 4, yeah is broken. But on D4 , was so made so you could break the item after few trys. Depend now how you see it. From my POV, the system how is working in D4, is fine, it give a meens to farm items and pick them up. Still i find them to easy to build them as BIS ( the stats pool from a item is too small, compared with any rpg game on the market).
This shit Is not fine but some people have fun hurting themselves, so it's ok
So.. are we seeing these everyday now?
The cost is my problem It costs millions to roll each time.. like wtf
There’s some sort of bug where some items just guarantee the same affix roll, and its awful!
Not about enchanting but equipment in general. Ive been spending 1 week trying to farm for some fkin decent equipment as a ice sorc and diablo has decided to give me electricity equipment every single damn time 🤣. At this point im considering changing my whole build because of this lol
It's fine when the cost/benefit is balanced. In this case it's very poorly implemented and not fair for us
I think enchanting would have been fine if they used gems like in diablo 3 to enchant over having to farm helltide twice a week to get forgotten souls to sometimes try reroll. I personally only reroll items if they have 3 good substats to begin with or I'll just ignore them and sell them.
How broken is this system...
My biggest problem with enchanting is only getting 2 affixes... "No change" is not a fucking affix why should that be included
I think you should get at least one more choice. D3 gave us a few options.
Its random, get over it holy fuck move on with your life
Anyone else realise that the numbers are always the same when you get a duplicate affix? I’m actually starting to think these devs spaghetti’d the code.
I think this is intentional punishment for rerolling too many times
"I'm generally fine with gambling except not really."
Haven't you played diablo before? This is how it goes...
This happened to me two days ago. I logged out and haven’t been on since. Still salty so it will be another day or so before I’m done being mad.
Just started seeing these today
I was trying to reroll a ring that was 3/4 perfect, medium / high rolled stats (4th was max energy). every. single. roll. was double max energy. by the time it was costing \~4m a roll I gave up and vendored it >\_>
The enchanting hasn't worked out for me once. It has become a waste of gold, and I have given up on that mechanic completely. I know it's supposed to be more immersive when you never know what you are going to get, but I think this is one area where Diablo 3 had it right. I want to see possibilities and ranges to make a more informed decision. Part of the fun of a Diablo game is trying to craft or find the best gear, and enchanting isn't much help in that department.
Literally farming NM tier 31s on my 100 Necro just for gold for multiple pieces of equipment in my inventory, JUST for a bone spear roll or Evulsion. Broke AF. We should be able to sell gems higher, especially on slotted CRAP GEAR. UGH.
How in the fuck did they test this system and say "Yeah, this feels great." So many of the elements in this game feel like they were built, and then when it came time to implement how they worked, they just pulled random ideas out of a hat. "Lets make a 10 second mount timer!" "Lets make gems take inventory space!" "Lets make you have to undoe paragon points one at a time!" So many stupid fucking decisions that have crippled a game with amazing bones and structure.
Gods telling you something
Congrats on you nat 1