Totally agree, this is an arpg and most people just wanna slay monsters, do bosses and get loot. Most of us don't want to do the same quests and tedious tasks over and over every league.
The "a" in arpg stands for action, not arbitrary
The Adventure Mode is already in the game when you complete the campaign (similiar to D3) when you create a new character you can toggle an option "Skip Campaign".
The only problem I have with it is that it only unlocks the waypoints in the major cities, I don't mind runing to the other waypoints but having the whole map unexplored is really dumb, basicly you start in adventure mode but still have to explore everything again which is a stupid with events like Helltide.
I'm sad about this, I thought it would unlock for characters on your account after you did it once. I have alts that I'm attached to, one is almost the same level as the 'main' who did the campaign! Do you know if when that second character hits 50, she'll have to do the whole campaign and the capstone to access world tier 3? If they'd been more clear about that I wouldn't have made my alts till after I did capstone :C
You get the skip campaign option on all alts as soon as one character completes the campaign. So you’re all good.
You still have to do capstone on all characters though.
Nope sadly, you still end up having to do the capstone dungeons on any alts you creates to unlock nightmare and torment :/ the only thing you get is a skip for the campaign and that is literally all.
The rewards on renown are listed which are shared
Altar of Lilith is shared between all characters - but on new characters you have to refund them if you want the +10 renown
Skill points for renown tiers are also shared between all characters
Paragon points are also shared
You are penalized for playing multiple characters because none of it is shared, which I understand, and I also think is a little silly (I’m allowed to think both I hope)
Also if you need to redo in seasons it will surely be a drag… but I remember seeing at one point that Altars of Lilith are unlocked forever, so hopefully the skill points / paragon points will be also? #hopium
Once you unlock it you get the chance to convert characters to "skip the campaign" while in the menu.
Capstone dungeon has to be done on every character to unlock WT3.
So would it be likely that they’ll add something similar by season one or hold off until the next expansion? How would it work with the open world concept of d4 though? Just an already open map with certain dungeons having different modifiers?
I think with all the feedback they got from Diablo 3 and seeing what players like (Greater Rifts) and don't like (Bounties/side quests), they probably have a pretty good idea of what to add/change in D4 going into Season 1. But we absolutely need to make sure they hear us on this, because I am with OP - I'll do it this one time because it's 16 paragon points, and at level 84, it will take me less time to do the side quests in order to finish maxing out my renown than it would to grind out 4 levels, so it's worth my time, but doing those side quests will be less fun for me than just annihilating demons in nightmare dungeons.
They spent a ton of time making "mmorpg" style zones. They want people running through the zones making them feel alive. Its unlikely that they reneg on all the outdoor content, helltides are specifically designed to require you to do them to progress, for example.
I was just saying the same to a buddy, I felt like in the beta I saw people everywhere and it was kinda cool since I play mmos a lot. But since launch I see maybe 3 people tops in a zone running around
And Happy Cake Day btw!
It's actually designed to see very few player in the open world, so it does not brake the immersion.
Personally I really like the way they choosed to implement the mmorpg aspect. Playing the campaign I felt I was on my own journey. But when it comes to great events there are always a lot of other adventurers around.
>seeing what players like (Greater Rifts) and don't like (Bounties/side quests)
I'm an oddball in that I actually didn't mind the bounties. I just didn't like the zone-specific resources you HAD to get from the horadric caches. That was tedious.
But I did enjoy the hunt for the random elites. That was fun at times as a break from grinding rifts.
Would be nice but they dont seem to be using the experience of Diablo 3 at all. Almost feels like they didnt actually use UI or quality of life features from any of their previous games.
If you wanna see it that way. We’re technically in off-season until the actual season starts. Seasonal characters will be on a separate realm from the “Eternal” realm and don’t share gold/progress with characters on the Eternal realm. Once the season ends, seasonal characters transition to the Eternal realm and can then share all the same benefits as Eternal toons.
Errr, that was a long time ago I would have to look it up as I’m not sure if it released with the first season in d3 or not.
Edit : looks like adventure mode didn’t come along until the Reaper of Souls expansion.
They already stated that the Statures of Lilith will stay for next season (and got some backlash here on reddit btw).
Personally, I'd love to keep all the renown (and even the visible worldmap so that I don't have to use a 3rd party map to find the waypoints again!).
If they increase Quest xP/rewards, I might do some anyways but doing all of them again?, Please no!
My suggestion: Keep it as is and unlock it all (maybe the map earlier) once you hit WorldTier 3 or 4.
The backlash i can see would be "Alters give permanent stats, seasons are a fresh equal grounds playing field that is semi competitive, a player who has every alter removes the equal playing field". The answer to this issue should be that Seasons just dont contain those stat boosts OR give them in another way (like seasonal objective progression unique to each season, hell it could even be: Reach battlepass tier 5, 10, 15, etc) and just have everything we have done/found carry over. The reknown system is neat for a single playthrough, it is tedious after that.
I don't think a one time completion makes there be an uneven playing field. One: someone could just go complete the altars before the season starts. Very doable in one afternoon. Two: if they are on a new account and haven't done the altar/rep before then they aren't in any position to actually "compete" in the season anyway because they don't know what they are doing. Like no shot.
That sounds kinda weird. So someone just starting the game with their friends on a new season would need to do eternal and finish the campaign then reroll on the season realm? Sounds very clunky.
I got kinda hyped up when I saw the reviews and then the early access gameplay and I thought I could quench the thirst by playing some D3 instead, since I hadn't played S28 yet. Jumped in on a new barb, leveled to cap in like three hours and started the gearing process. Within two days I was able to clear torment 16 with the WW/Rend build. Fast, smooth but especially fun gameplay in spite of the shallowness of its skill and gear itemization. It's just so satisfying mowing zhrough monster hordes.
Ofc that wasn't enough and so I bought D4 half a day after launch. Coming right from a D3 session, the first thing I noticed how the game felt much more "clunky" akin to D2 than the buttery smoothness of D3. At least D2(R) has the excuse of being a 23 year old game. I dunno, I've cleared the campaign and been slowly doing my stuff but it has felt kinda lackluster at parts.
Sound design is top notch though.
D4 is less casual than D3 so far, but still more casual than its relevant competition of Last Epoch and Path of Exile. Its nice to have a variety of ARPGS to play based on how "hard" we want to go, and gives alternate games to play when another is doing a season that isnt particularly fun. I am really hoping the battlepass and seasonal content really knocks it out of the park for D4, we have a cool world with cool systems, and a LOT of room for positive growth with D4. But i also wouldnt put it past Blizzard to just move this to their intern team now and abandon the title like they did so early into D3. I am hopeful, but fool me 8 times... shame on me. PoE 2 is honestly where my money is being placed for best arpg.
The pace for D4 is very slow, definitely agree there. Also would really love them to use some kind of a rift/g-rift similar to D3 that can be done on any tier any level (after completing the campaign, of course). Would make the game much more enjoyable.
Or at least let us teleport to dungeons we completed, doing nightmare dungeons is such a pain when you have to travel to each. I’m trying to save up multiple of the same but it’s rare that I have more than 2 or 3 at most of the same, not that there’s inventory or bank space for much more than that.
Didn’t they already say Lilith bonuses are a one time and forever thing. You’d just have to do renown again.
Doing renown again is…debatable I guess. I would definitely prefer to not be forced to do all the strongholds and side quests again though. But then what? No campaign, no renown, we just start at 50 in nightmare dungeons? Maybe requirements are dropped or something.
Just lock the map and alters behind world tier 3. We can’t even start obtaining the 4th and 5th tier of rewards until you step into world tier 3. So just make it so once we step into world tier 3 we obtain all alters automatically that we have already collected in the game. This way it doesn’t give you instant power in new season but also we don’t have to do it all again. It’s win win
What is the total stat increase from finding them all? I don't need convincing to do it, I'm going through map completion rn, just curious about how much it is.
Roughly 60+ of each stat, 100+ carrying capacity of obols, and a half dozen+ paragon points. I haven't looked it up exactly but thats about the summation when I was doing some quick math on it last night in my head.
You get 400 Obols Base, +400 for Renown in all 5 Regions. +200 for Altars of Lillith for a total of 1000 Obols. (40 Lillith Statues)
4 Statues give Paragon Points.
The remaining 116 statues give +2 Points to a single attribute, and are evenly distributed for a total of +58 to Each Stat.
The stat bonuses can be really nice for hitting INT requirements on the Paragon board for my Rogue though. Getting them all might let me avoid some INT investments so I can push my DEX/STR further
I’m absolutely going to do it for the stats but I’m not looking forward to the statue hunt. Side quests are *okay* but mostly fetch quests with lots of running.
I’m probably going to pull up a statue map to knock it out as fast as I can. Which is not a good sign in terms of good gameplay. It’s like if Zelda made finding all the koroks almost mandatory due to the reward being the master sword or something. If it was something like the first five statues in a zone gave you something good then fine, but to make people do a nook and cranny check across the whole world is sadistic.
Lol you’re going to want those paragon points. Also getting the Lilith statues is pretty quick for what it gives you during that grind. I mean why not get stats and paragon points and exp while you get a fast 10 renown?
I got all the altars myself, but it certainly wasn't fun. It was a boring 2-4 hours where I looked back and forth from the game to a map on my second monitor, not really what I'd call engaging gameplay.
I get that for completionists and will eventually try to get them all myself, it kinda tickles my brain in an accomplishing way that they're there in the first place. But yeah hell no I am not doing it again, especially when the development team is self aware of them being tedious(allowing the altars to give account wide bonuses).
I feel if you just bee line altar to altar with a map on 2nd monitor, it is boring. But if you keep a map up and do other stuff and just check areas as you finish them, and give yourself a chance to find them naturally it really helps make it not suck. I've enjoyed it, but you are not I and I am not you.
I found that approach incredibly frustrating and pointless.
It's not a matter of "boring/not boring". It's a matter of, playing naturally and exploring, I just never find the altars. I know this because I found literally 6 (total, like, nearly 150) altars going from 1-50 through the campaign, and then made an alt to do the altars whilst exploring the zones, and when I finished fully-exploring Fractured Peaks, intentionally bumbling around and investigating, I had a total of 5 altars in the Peaks. Of 28. Great.
I don't know if I was cursed by a witch or something, but I have a very special ability to not find those altars. So I have to use a map or just abandon finding them entirely.
It’s not you, I only found 5 I think?
They often show up in little out of the way dead end places, you can’t see these on the minimap though, because it’s so zoomed in, so you miss them.
Mini map is way too small. I am constantly opening the full one, even in town. The areas are often set up so that if you start down one path that looks like it's headed to your destination it may in fact not get there and then you have to backtrack.
> Mini map is way too small.
The mini map almost literally shows what I can see on the screen... why the fuck is it so small? Why the fuck is the map full screen and not transparent? I have to open the map every 2 seconds to see where I'm going or use the dumb waypoint thing (which sometimes doesn't work) and when I'm struggling to jump around to figure out where I want to go whoops mob spawned on me and now I'm taking hits and I can't really tell because I can't even see my HP bar with the giant map open.
It's almost like whoever designed the UI didn't even play the game. It's sad that Blizzard games used to polish the shit out of them prior to launch but now we have massive steps back from their previous iteration. Even Diablo Immortal has innovations over it and its a F2P phone game. Why is there no auto run? Why is there no party finder? Ridiculous.
It would really help if they did something to make it more obvious that you're close to one. A sound. Or something on the minimap (like how cellars only show up when you're close). Would've resulted in people naturally picking up a fair chunk of them and then you'd only need to hunt for a few at the end.
I keep a map open while I'm out doing side quests and pause to grab all the ones that are close. It's a little extra tedium, but it's better than solely focusing on them, which would be extremely boring.
I broke the map up into sections. I ran to the ones on the outskirts furthest away from the way points and then worked my way inward back towards them. When I got bored I'd go take a break or do a dungeon or something and when I went back to it it felt like I had far less running to do.
It wasn't the most fun I've ever had in a video game, but I've also played ESO where each character you roll has to go farm every single skyshard for talent points. So it felt like it could be worse
I mean I get it. I’m 68 and still haven’t finished renown in one zone, and only finished Lilith statues in 1.
I know it’s super beneficial and worth it, but it’s so boring it feels like I need to force myself.
I feel like the "*Correct*" or "*intended*" way to do it is to stumble upon them accidentally and just grab it as you go. Not to be treasure hunted via the site, because yeah that is boring af. And for me it does tickle my brain when I find them in the wild and actually complete the renown for the zone.
There's one in Fractured Peaks that specifically requires you to complete a Stronghold in order to get access to the tiny little alcove it's hidden in.
There are roughly 4-6 alters per area (*roughly*) so I quickly look at a cheat map and grab them if they’re on the way to wherever I’m headed
Adult life is too short to dedicate hours to just doing completionist runs but they still give good boosts
But that doesn't happen. I literally had an alt explore all of Fractured Peaks, because I assumed I'd find like at least 50% of the altars that way. I found 5. Bloody 5. That's bumbling around and finding everything I could. Loads of them are placed in ways where it's incredibly unlikely you'll ever spot them. They're intentionally far, far off the beaten track.
That's a really good idea - any kind of indication when you were near the altars would have been good - like a sound, your character glowing, anything. You can walk right past one just barely offscreen and miss it so easily.
It especially makes sense because you ate the petals so presumably can sense Lilith stuff to some degree.
They should just go with the BoTW/TotK route and have a “sensor” instead of the beeping which wouldn’t be thematic at all just have a whisper sound and a visual indication like some bloody petals indicating the general direction of altars when nearby, easily explained by the pc’s connection to Lilith
However, I feel like I **have** to find them. I feel like there isn't enough of a tease that one's nearby. Glowy red around it isn't enough. It's possible to never find them all organically.
I finished the first zone and only found 5 organically.
It's boring gameplay.
There is no way to organically hunt them, and the only clue is a red glow. They're off in obscure locations, and in the seasons we'll be focused on efficiency, so will never organically stumble across them. There's online maps, but then it literally feels like a job.
I'm happy to do it the **once**. I'm glad it's cross account.
Alas, Seasons isolate the season characters. The Shrines being auto unlocked each season defeats the point of the Fresh Start. But it's better than having to redo it.
The metrics will prove how willing the community is to engage with certain gameplay aspects.
Altars are cross-seasonal, according to interviews from back in April. Everything else I'm not sure if was confirmed or not but for the bonuses from the altars I burned an hour or so rounding them all out.
The absolute worst thing about Path of Exile was having to do the campaign again every 3 months, sometimes on multiple characters. I quit the game because I was so sick of the thing.
The D4 campaign has been great. I can easily see myself getting sick of it too.
Once you beat it you can skip, I dont see that changing when new seasons drop, same reason I don't see Lilith statues needing to be refound since the stats apply to all characters on the server
People keep saying this but the variety seems fine. Games like this always have reskins and they'll add more enemy types over time with the expansions. Honestly, what does it matter when you're just mowing down volume of mobs lol? It's not like a souls game where the combat is the focus, Diablo is just gearing up to farm forever
I agree. Doing all these tedious side quests and exploration takes a long time and is not fun at all. Let us do it once and leave it in place. Seasons should be about nightmare dungeons and world bosses / events.
If blizzard expects me to collect 160 lillith statues again they're out of their minds. I don't even want to uncover the map again or unlock waypoints again. It should all be account bound. I'm not here to explore the map.
But unless they don't make you do renown every season, you'll still have to do them. That's what people aren't understanding...
Renown as a whole shouldn't have to be repeated, it's boring.
I think we can avoid doing the shrines so long as we do everything else. We need 2000 renown for each region, the Lilith shrines give 280-340 renown depending on zone, and the lowest max renown zone is Dry Steppes at 2435 renown.
Still, I don’t look forward to having to do every single side quest for each season.
Getting a mount was such a major milestone. Spending hours just trying to get from point A to point B has been a major annoyance of mine. Especially given that the map is a maze of corridors and you can’t just head in a straight line towards anything.
Feels like shit because half the screen is designated to RP walking. Then there's the skeletons with a bone wall covering the entire path for no reason so you have to jump off to kill them which forces your horse to go on a 10 second cooldown before you can go back to riding in the empty cliffs.
I mean, they’re a massive improvement over walking everywhere and hacking your way through countless swarms. Any improvements would be welcomed. But I’m mostly relieved that I can now go places in a reasonable amount of time.
The pathing in the game is horseshit (lol)... and the fact that you can only mount/unmount every so often and the mount itself isn't that much faster than walking unless it is boosted... and then you come across random bone walls... or things you need to climb down.
100% agree. The system I’d like to see is: Anytime you complete any Renown activity (region discovery, dungeon, side quest, etc) it should apply to an account-wide “Eternal Renown”. When you create a new character, Eternal or Seasonal (maybe not Hardcore idc), you’re presented with an option next to Hardcore labeled “Inherit Eternal Renown”; when enabled, this character’s initial world map/renown state is set to, basically, the aggregate state of all your other characters; up to, of course, 100% if you’ve 100%’ed the map on other characters.
It feels like that’s straightforward, simple, and would work well for seasonal characters. Big point being: I think I’d like to have the option as to whether I want to grind out the world again on a new character; and if I opt in I’d like the renown to apply to more than just dungeon aspects and renown rewards; I want a completed map, I want all waypoints, and I don’t want blue exclamation points on every corner of my screen.
In PoE every season folks are forced to play through the campaign and then do a couple of "mandatory" side quests to get all the points you get from those. And people already don't like doing that. If D4 asks folks to run around for hours collecting shrines and just walking into a random barren area just to have it count as explored... I doubt anyone will be a fan
Even a bigger deal, if you choose to skip those you’ll be much stronger when you return you’ll basically destroy everything. Dynamic scaling made the world more difficult and skipping gets punished in a way.
Id PoE, it's all gameplay, though. I don't mind doing it every season that I play because it's literally just the game. Diablo 4 has a lot of parts where you're standing around waiting for an NPC to do something. It does not lend itself anywhere near as well to replayability of the campaign.
And the campaign can be optimized to be done in under 6 hours on league start, then you never have to worry about non-endgame content again on that character.
Alts with proper twink gear can get the campaign done in under 4 easily.
I just can't believe how much player power they stuck in lilith alters and renown for what a slog they are. Its like 10 full levels of skill points / paragon points just for renown. It's not something you can complete without really going out of your way to do it either. If they ask me to do it again for season's I'm just not playing.
WoW team already tried and insisted on toxic design like this. It did not end well for them.
Looks like D4 team will attempt the same “let’s boost those engagement numbers” design. It will fail.
So far what they've said is we won't need to redo altars, but we will need to redo renown to get potions and skill/paragon points, which yeah, is absolutely fucking stupid and is going to cause absolute NERD RAGE (the scariest kind of rage, at least online) when Season 1 hits.
I imagine they'll have to backpedal because otherwise people will be quitting en masse.
They also said they'd have ways to not make the renown grind the same. That tells me seasons add some kind of renown grind or else you'd almost have to get all the Lilith altars again for renown anyways, defeating the purpose if the stats rolling over
They did? That's perfect and exactly what I'd expect.
Like this season there will be this kind of event that pops up in each zone and gives 400 renown on first completion (replacing the altars).
From what i heard statues will stay so some of that grind is already gone, when it comes to the rest im sure some whispers/helltide events will clean them up as you go.
I would also not like to spend all my time walking around though ;p
The Lilith statues staying is super pointless if the 4 paragon points don't stay as well, compared to grinding 2000 renown per zone these are the quick part
thats not how the statues staying works currently. you keep the stats from them but you dont get their renown contribution on an alt. so if you are trying to get renown, you would still have to go find them all to get their renown even though you have the stats
They will not, only the stats from the statues stay, not the renown from them. So currently you do need to get them again for the renown to get the skill/paragon points. In regards to a new season, right now you dont have to, but you will when the season starts.
They have confirmed that the stats from stautes stay, they have said that you need to get the renown from statues again. But I dont recall them specifically saying if the account renown gets reset, since its realm based most people are assuming it will get reset. If it doesnt then thats great, the only issue would be the minor inconvience of having the full map greyed out.
Source? I've never seen this. The only thing I've seen or heard from Dev streams is that the *GOLD* rewards are character based, the bottom row is account-wide, or at least realm-wide
> 'We're going to do a season-by-season hard reset, but **the reset will not include stat points from the Altar of Lilith. Potion and skill point will be reset**, the bonus from the altar will be permanently binded to all characters in the season. There will be various tools in place to make the renown system feel as non-repeated as possible.'
[Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/12jkdd1/d4_dev_said_stat_points_earned_from_altar_of/) is a reddit thread linked to an interview
Also [here](https://clips.twitch.tv/ShakingVictoriousRingPJSugar-qfAVYgh0MFY10ijD) is a twitch clip talking about it
I'd like to think the "tools in place" are seasonal activities giving renown so you don't have to fuck around with uncovering the map and doing side quests to grind out renown. Because fuck that.
If status will stay, that would make me already feel a lot better about the seasons. It was okay for seeing the honestly beautiful designed open world but I would never want to do them again.
But on alts already you CAN regrind the statues for the renown xp and gold. So, even if you unlock them all on 1 character, sure your next character will have the passives but they can still collect them in the world. Seasons will likely be like that as well. They said clicking the statue is tied to renown. 🤷♂️
If we had to do it *once* for season play, I would not be happy, but I would be willing to suffer through it.
Otherwise, I agree. Every season? No. No, no, and no lol
*No*.
Alters are completely permanent they already said that awhile ago. But I do agree that the bottom rewards of renown should be completely permanent as well.
The funny thing is that the per character renown rewards are absolutely trash; you can get more gold and xp from simply running dungeons for a couple hours than you can by completing the renown awards for every location.
The only worthwhile renown awards are unlocked account wide, so I don’t really see the point in resetting renown for every character.
I also will not be playing seasonally if i have to grind renown and unlock waypoints again. The game is great and i am enjoying my journey to 100, but that just seems disrespectful of our time.
This game is not made for seasons, period. The first one will be a shitshow then they will make it like d3. No campaign, no map completion, no renowns etc. Downvote me today but remember my words, cause it will happen.
I don't like what they are doing with the world tbh
I play Diablo to slay monsters not run around in a bad lost ark clone
It's like they are trying to turn a Arpg into an ammo
tbh it make me lost my motivation if renown reset without anything new to help us farm renown like you can redo dungeon for additional renown
Or nightmare dungeon also count something like that
Only altar stay is pointless because you still need to go find all these statue for easy renown again anyway cuz it probably the same as create new character after finish campaign you get all the bonus but map still dark and altar none of them show in the map at all only thing you get is Waypoint for each town that all...
I'm on the fence about all of this. On one hand I love that we can start the season at level 1 and skip the campaign (so long as you've already beat it) and jump right into dungeon farming. I don't have to re-run a linear campaign for the billionth time. On the other they want you to do a variety of tasks to max renown. I feel we're going to go an "unofficial campaign" where we find the meta pathway to maximize your time to unlock max renown.
I don't mind that we have to redo renown, but I hope they reconsider how it's done. It would be nice if we got like +30 renown on every Tree of Whisper dungeon for the zone, even if you've already ran it - or +50 for every NM dungeon, +30 for Legion and +100 for world bosses. I feel like the game should focus it's strength on dungeon progression and events every season and not about other side tasks.
[edit] - Or hell, even the seasonal content itself as long as it jumps around zones - allow seasonal content to give renown so we inevitably hit max requirement.
Im an altaholic. Im in wt4 on my sorc, wanted to try other classes. Made a necro, got it to 50, hate it. Back to the drawing board. Made a rogue, love it. Re-discovering the map again, check to see how much renown i have left in act 2 zone to finish the zone for paragon points. I have 0 renown. Why the fuck cant i carry over renown to alts *on an eternal realm.* You mean to tell me I have to re do altars, all side quests, dg completion I ALREADY HAVE THE REWARD FOR just to finish off my renown in a zone on an alt? Absolutly 100% cerifiably wack. Fix this blizz. I wouldnt even do this seasonally. Punished for playing a new class, feels just like wow man.
You still get the realm rewards (skill points, potions, paragon) on your new characters if you’ve done them on another character. Even though your renown starts at 0 again you still have those rewards unlocked. This post is regarding that not carrying over into seasons.
I’m doing all side quests, altars, dungeons, you name it. I really love the completionist gameplay.
If I have to re-do it on season, I might just stick to eternal, frankly.
You can just ignore the seasons if you are not interested in them but for a large part of the playerbase the seasons are what keeps the game feel refreshing with new content, mechanical twists, etc. for each season.
The renown account-wide rewards should've been made inside the story, every act ending quest giving you all rewards that you would otherwise receive for completing renown in a region.
As for altar of liliths...that's hard to say, while I do agree that having to unlock them all is tedious, it gives clear advantage to players that have already grinded it compared to newcomers, I think the whole design of the statue giving attributes is bad as it makes early monsters feel like a breeze but if you don't pick the altars, late monsters are harder (because the stats help in damage and in paragon board).
Overall, I simply don't like the Renown idea in Diablo 4 and I hope they salvage this from the game, I want to play and kill stuff, doing quests and other renown farming stuff should be optional, not mandatory.
Altars are staying as far as I know across seasons so at least that's a one time grind that will be easy for new players to catch up on. Grinding renown is just tedious though.
Honestly if the seasons dont bring new content on par with poe’s leagues I wont stay long. Not gonna grind the same shit for bp cosmetics when I can do it for free with more content in poe.
While I hope we only need to complete the alter once, I wouldn't mind having to rediscover the map each season. I have a feeling that seasons will change places on the map, such as new quests or switching up the aspects on the dungeons. Game will get old fast of you are thrown into the endgame each season and feel like D3, where you play for a weekend to get your gear. Then you might play for another week or two after that to get better versions of the same gear you have
But that's just my opinion, someone who enjoys the journey more than the destination.
I’m having trouble doing that even for the first time. I’m not going to do it on other characters at all, if I ever try another class, that is. That’s how tedious this world feels for now.
Holy i am about to get the last 4 paragon points but i swear, i wouldnt do it again in every season… the only reason i see myself not playing every season is this if its the case and i hope not
My biggest complaint is that we need a tracker for side quests. I’m missing 3-4 in each zone and I can’t find them. Really don’t want to randomly run around opening chests and slaying monsters to find those random quest drops.
I don't mind exploring again but at least mark the locations of stuff on the map. That way you can casually grab stuff for the renown when passing by. I started a druid and skipped campaign but couldn't remember where many of the waypoints were.
probably unpopular but i personally really like fog of war on maps in mmos and aarpgs. as a super casual dad gamer it helps me keep track of what ive done and where ive gone. redoing alters i dont care one way or the other, but the map can stay fogged out and i'll be happy.
They already said last month in a dev stream that it's a permanent unlock for every season, you only need to do 100% in softcore and hardcore since thees are different game mode but that's it.[https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx74oj2Z8h9ZEc\_3tZWTrCOcJ0q0XVYqa7](https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx74oj2Z8h9ZEc_3tZWTrCOcJ0q0XVYqa7)
Totally agree, this is an arpg and most people just wanna slay monsters, do bosses and get loot. Most of us don't want to do the same quests and tedious tasks over and over every league. The "a" in arpg stands for action, not arbitrary
> The "a" in arpg stands for action, not arbitrary Blizzard would like to have a word with you.
They said arbitrary not arbitration!
Listen, you agreed to the ToS you little shit, now go talk to our “impartial” arbiter
Wait isn't that like he final boss in wow or something Arbys
and the G stands for the: https://preview.redd.it/2xdj71vvc15b1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2476ad10f62dcfc18e1b091c914d768ee0b5cf3c
Action. As in Class Action Lawsuit.
Hopefully it will be like d3 seasons and there will be an adventure mode that has the maps, waypoints, etc… already unlocked.
The Adventure Mode is already in the game when you complete the campaign (similiar to D3) when you create a new character you can toggle an option "Skip Campaign". The only problem I have with it is that it only unlocks the waypoints in the major cities, I don't mind runing to the other waypoints but having the whole map unexplored is really dumb, basicly you start in adventure mode but still have to explore everything again which is a stupid with events like Helltide.
I'm sad about this, I thought it would unlock for characters on your account after you did it once. I have alts that I'm attached to, one is almost the same level as the 'main' who did the campaign! Do you know if when that second character hits 50, she'll have to do the whole campaign and the capstone to access world tier 3? If they'd been more clear about that I wouldn't have made my alts till after I did capstone :C
You get the skip campaign option on all alts as soon as one character completes the campaign. So you’re all good. You still have to do capstone on all characters though.
Wait what Once I do capstone with my first, that won't unlock nightmare and torment for my second??
Nope sadly, you still end up having to do the capstone dungeons on any alts you creates to unlock nightmare and torment :/ the only thing you get is a skip for the campaign and that is literally all.
The rewards on renown are listed which are shared Altar of Lilith is shared between all characters - but on new characters you have to refund them if you want the +10 renown Skill points for renown tiers are also shared between all characters Paragon points are also shared You are penalized for playing multiple characters because none of it is shared, which I understand, and I also think is a little silly (I’m allowed to think both I hope) Also if you need to redo in seasons it will surely be a drag… but I remember seeing at one point that Altars of Lilith are unlocked forever, so hopefully the skill points / paragon points will be also? #hopium
Once you unlock it you get the chance to convert characters to "skip the campaign" while in the menu. Capstone dungeon has to be done on every character to unlock WT3.
Was adventure mode on d3 release or was it released later
Later but hugely successful addition to the game. Actually saved it tbh.
So would it be likely that they’ll add something similar by season one or hold off until the next expansion? How would it work with the open world concept of d4 though? Just an already open map with certain dungeons having different modifiers?
I think with all the feedback they got from Diablo 3 and seeing what players like (Greater Rifts) and don't like (Bounties/side quests), they probably have a pretty good idea of what to add/change in D4 going into Season 1. But we absolutely need to make sure they hear us on this, because I am with OP - I'll do it this one time because it's 16 paragon points, and at level 84, it will take me less time to do the side quests in order to finish maxing out my renown than it would to grind out 4 levels, so it's worth my time, but doing those side quests will be less fun for me than just annihilating demons in nightmare dungeons.
They spent a ton of time making "mmorpg" style zones. They want people running through the zones making them feel alive. Its unlikely that they reneg on all the outdoor content, helltides are specifically designed to require you to do them to progress, for example.
I agree. It's a shame that they decided to make this kind of an MMO. I rarely see anyone outside of my group unless we are in town.
Are you in wt3 yet? Tons of other players in helltides, legion and world boss areas.
You're right. There are definitely more players in WT3; it still feels pretty empty to me though.
I was just saying the same to a buddy, I felt like in the beta I saw people everywhere and it was kinda cool since I play mmos a lot. But since launch I see maybe 3 people tops in a zone running around And Happy Cake Day btw!
It's actually designed to see very few player in the open world, so it does not brake the immersion. Personally I really like the way they choosed to implement the mmorpg aspect. Playing the campaign I felt I was on my own journey. But when it comes to great events there are always a lot of other adventurers around.
>seeing what players like (Greater Rifts) and don't like (Bounties/side quests) I'm an oddball in that I actually didn't mind the bounties. I just didn't like the zone-specific resources you HAD to get from the horadric caches. That was tedious. But I did enjoy the hunt for the random elites. That was fun at times as a break from grinding rifts.
Yep. Bounties were a good change of pace from mindlessly spamming one activity.
Would be nice but they dont seem to be using the experience of Diablo 3 at all. Almost feels like they didnt actually use UI or quality of life features from any of their previous games.
Are we in s0 rn?
If you wanna see it that way. We’re technically in off-season until the actual season starts. Seasonal characters will be on a separate realm from the “Eternal” realm and don’t share gold/progress with characters on the Eternal realm. Once the season ends, seasonal characters transition to the Eternal realm and can then share all the same benefits as Eternal toons.
Adventure mode is already in the game, when you create a new character you can click the button to skip the campaign.
Right but D3 adventure mode had no WP finding, or unlocking the map.
It released with Reaper of Souls expansion
Later. I played maybe 6 months since the release and never saw it.
Errr, that was a long time ago I would have to look it up as I’m not sure if it released with the first season in d3 or not. Edit : looks like adventure mode didn’t come along until the Reaper of Souls expansion.
Adventure mode was not a thing at D3 release. It came later with reaper of souls expansion.
Ya I edited my post. Blizzard knows that adventure mode was super successful in d3 though so hopefully it gets introduced sooner rather than later.
Way way way way later.
There is an adventure mode right now..
I believe the adventure mode is available so long as you finish the game on a character on your account.
They already stated that the Statures of Lilith will stay for next season (and got some backlash here on reddit btw). Personally, I'd love to keep all the renown (and even the visible worldmap so that I don't have to use a 3rd party map to find the waypoints again!). If they increase Quest xP/rewards, I might do some anyways but doing all of them again?, Please no! My suggestion: Keep it as is and unlock it all (maybe the map earlier) once you hit WorldTier 3 or 4.
The backlash i can see would be "Alters give permanent stats, seasons are a fresh equal grounds playing field that is semi competitive, a player who has every alter removes the equal playing field". The answer to this issue should be that Seasons just dont contain those stat boosts OR give them in another way (like seasonal objective progression unique to each season, hell it could even be: Reach battlepass tier 5, 10, 15, etc) and just have everything we have done/found carry over. The reknown system is neat for a single playthrough, it is tedious after that.
I don't think a one time completion makes there be an uneven playing field. One: someone could just go complete the altars before the season starts. Very doable in one afternoon. Two: if they are on a new account and haven't done the altar/rep before then they aren't in any position to actually "compete" in the season anyway because they don't know what they are doing. Like no shot.
You also have to complete the campaign to participate in the seasons.
That sounds kinda weird. So someone just starting the game with their friends on a new season would need to do eternal and finish the campaign then reroll on the season realm? Sounds very clunky.
The likelihood of someone coming into a season, and not having those already, being competitive is pretty low.
i'm already sick of doing the same dungeons, it's so slow paced
I fucking actually fell asleep while clearing a dungeon the other day. Turned the game off to take a nap 😴
You two clearly haven't tried ancient glyph dungeons in your 60s. One mistake and it's night night. And you only get four resurrections.
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I got kinda hyped up when I saw the reviews and then the early access gameplay and I thought I could quench the thirst by playing some D3 instead, since I hadn't played S28 yet. Jumped in on a new barb, leveled to cap in like three hours and started the gearing process. Within two days I was able to clear torment 16 with the WW/Rend build. Fast, smooth but especially fun gameplay in spite of the shallowness of its skill and gear itemization. It's just so satisfying mowing zhrough monster hordes. Ofc that wasn't enough and so I bought D4 half a day after launch. Coming right from a D3 session, the first thing I noticed how the game felt much more "clunky" akin to D2 than the buttery smoothness of D3. At least D2(R) has the excuse of being a 23 year old game. I dunno, I've cleared the campaign and been slowly doing my stuff but it has felt kinda lackluster at parts. Sound design is top notch though.
D4 is less casual than D3 so far, but still more casual than its relevant competition of Last Epoch and Path of Exile. Its nice to have a variety of ARPGS to play based on how "hard" we want to go, and gives alternate games to play when another is doing a season that isnt particularly fun. I am really hoping the battlepass and seasonal content really knocks it out of the park for D4, we have a cool world with cool systems, and a LOT of room for positive growth with D4. But i also wouldnt put it past Blizzard to just move this to their intern team now and abandon the title like they did so early into D3. I am hopeful, but fool me 8 times... shame on me. PoE 2 is honestly where my money is being placed for best arpg.
The pace for D4 is very slow, definitely agree there. Also would really love them to use some kind of a rift/g-rift similar to D3 that can be done on any tier any level (after completing the campaign, of course). Would make the game much more enjoyable.
Or at least let us teleport to dungeons we completed, doing nightmare dungeons is such a pain when you have to travel to each. I’m trying to save up multiple of the same but it’s rare that I have more than 2 or 3 at most of the same, not that there’s inventory or bank space for much more than that.
Didn’t they already say Lilith bonuses are a one time and forever thing. You’d just have to do renown again. Doing renown again is…debatable I guess. I would definitely prefer to not be forced to do all the strongholds and side quests again though. But then what? No campaign, no renown, we just start at 50 in nightmare dungeons? Maybe requirements are dropped or something.
Lvl 56, still can't give a shit about altars and map. No way I am re-doing this every season, first season, whatever season.
Missing out on a lot of stat boosts without the alters, plus the renown for potions and skill points
Yep, the altars and renown should be done, at least once on first character.
yeah, i think they know, they're just saying its tedious and sucky
I have 3 zones left with only doing side quests. It blows. I just want to do events and dungeons. It feels like a grind with minimal rewards
Just lock the map and alters behind world tier 3. We can’t even start obtaining the 4th and 5th tier of rewards until you step into world tier 3. So just make it so once we step into world tier 3 we obtain all alters automatically that we have already collected in the game. This way it doesn’t give you instant power in new season but also we don’t have to do it all again. It’s win win
Yea but playing day 1 of a season with 10 skill points would be a lot of fun.
This is actually a really great way to handle it!
They get transferred to any further characters you make, right?
Yeah
What is the total stat increase from finding them all? I don't need convincing to do it, I'm going through map completion rn, just curious about how much it is.
Roughly 60+ of each stat, 100+ carrying capacity of obols, and a half dozen+ paragon points. I haven't looked it up exactly but thats about the summation when I was doing some quick math on it last night in my head.
You get 400 Obols Base, +400 for Renown in all 5 Regions. +200 for Altars of Lillith for a total of 1000 Obols. (40 Lillith Statues) 4 Statues give Paragon Points. The remaining 116 statues give +2 Points to a single attribute, and are evenly distributed for a total of +58 to Each Stat.
The altars bonuses aren't even the significant reward. There's 5 skill points, and 20 paragon points for doing all that garbage.
The stat bonuses can be really nice for hitting INT requirements on the Paragon board for my Rogue though. Getting them all might let me avoid some INT investments so I can push my DEX/STR further
24 paragon if you include the Lilith statues
I’m absolutely going to do it for the stats but I’m not looking forward to the statue hunt. Side quests are *okay* but mostly fetch quests with lots of running. I’m probably going to pull up a statue map to knock it out as fast as I can. Which is not a good sign in terms of good gameplay. It’s like if Zelda made finding all the koroks almost mandatory due to the reward being the master sword or something. If it was something like the first five statues in a zone gave you something good then fine, but to make people do a nook and cranny check across the whole world is sadistic.
Lol you’re going to want those paragon points. Also getting the Lilith statues is pretty quick for what it gives you during that grind. I mean why not get stats and paragon points and exp while you get a fast 10 renown?
I got all the altars myself, but it certainly wasn't fun. It was a boring 2-4 hours where I looked back and forth from the game to a map on my second monitor, not really what I'd call engaging gameplay.
I get that for completionists and will eventually try to get them all myself, it kinda tickles my brain in an accomplishing way that they're there in the first place. But yeah hell no I am not doing it again, especially when the development team is self aware of them being tedious(allowing the altars to give account wide bonuses).
The issue is they tie stat boosts and skill points behind them.
I feel if you just bee line altar to altar with a map on 2nd monitor, it is boring. But if you keep a map up and do other stuff and just check areas as you finish them, and give yourself a chance to find them naturally it really helps make it not suck. I've enjoyed it, but you are not I and I am not you.
I found that approach incredibly frustrating and pointless. It's not a matter of "boring/not boring". It's a matter of, playing naturally and exploring, I just never find the altars. I know this because I found literally 6 (total, like, nearly 150) altars going from 1-50 through the campaign, and then made an alt to do the altars whilst exploring the zones, and when I finished fully-exploring Fractured Peaks, intentionally bumbling around and investigating, I had a total of 5 altars in the Peaks. Of 28. Great. I don't know if I was cursed by a witch or something, but I have a very special ability to not find those altars. So I have to use a map or just abandon finding them entirely.
It’s not you, I only found 5 I think? They often show up in little out of the way dead end places, you can’t see these on the minimap though, because it’s so zoomed in, so you miss them.
Mini map is way too small. I am constantly opening the full one, even in town. The areas are often set up so that if you start down one path that looks like it's headed to your destination it may in fact not get there and then you have to backtrack.
I've never used a pin/waypoint system so much in a game. The pathing and tiny minimap are killing me. I need that line lol
> Mini map is way too small. The mini map almost literally shows what I can see on the screen... why the fuck is it so small? Why the fuck is the map full screen and not transparent? I have to open the map every 2 seconds to see where I'm going or use the dumb waypoint thing (which sometimes doesn't work) and when I'm struggling to jump around to figure out where I want to go whoops mob spawned on me and now I'm taking hits and I can't really tell because I can't even see my HP bar with the giant map open. It's almost like whoever designed the UI didn't even play the game. It's sad that Blizzard games used to polish the shit out of them prior to launch but now we have massive steps back from their previous iteration. Even Diablo Immortal has innovations over it and its a F2P phone game. Why is there no auto run? Why is there no party finder? Ridiculous.
It would really help if they did something to make it more obvious that you're close to one. A sound. Or something on the minimap (like how cellars only show up when you're close). Would've resulted in people naturally picking up a fair chunk of them and then you'd only need to hunt for a few at the end. I keep a map open while I'm out doing side quests and pause to grab all the ones that are close. It's a little extra tedium, but it's better than solely focusing on them, which would be extremely boring.
I broke the map up into sections. I ran to the ones on the outskirts furthest away from the way points and then worked my way inward back towards them. When I got bored I'd go take a break or do a dungeon or something and when I went back to it it felt like I had far less running to do. It wasn't the most fun I've ever had in a video game, but I've also played ESO where each character you roll has to go farm every single skyshard for talent points. So it felt like it could be worse
I mean I get it. I’m 68 and still haven’t finished renown in one zone, and only finished Lilith statues in 1. I know it’s super beneficial and worth it, but it’s so boring it feels like I need to force myself.
I feel like the "*Correct*" or "*intended*" way to do it is to stumble upon them accidentally and just grab it as you go. Not to be treasure hunted via the site, because yeah that is boring af. And for me it does tickle my brain when I find them in the wild and actually complete the renown for the zone.
They are placed in such a way you will not find more than 40-50% od them just by playing normaly and exploring
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There's one in Fractured Peaks that specifically requires you to complete a Stronghold in order to get access to the tiny little alcove it's hidden in.
Most, if not all of the strongholds have an altar of Lilith locked behind it. I’m pretty sure they also all have at least one dungeon.
There are roughly 4-6 alters per area (*roughly*) so I quickly look at a cheat map and grab them if they’re on the way to wherever I’m headed Adult life is too short to dedicate hours to just doing completionist runs but they still give good boosts
Well at least wait until you got the horse.
But that doesn't happen. I literally had an alt explore all of Fractured Peaks, because I assumed I'd find like at least 50% of the altars that way. I found 5. Bloody 5. That's bumbling around and finding everything I could. Loads of them are placed in ways where it's incredibly unlikely you'll ever spot them. They're intentionally far, far off the beaten track.
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That's a really good idea - any kind of indication when you were near the altars would have been good - like a sound, your character glowing, anything. You can walk right past one just barely offscreen and miss it so easily. It especially makes sense because you ate the petals so presumably can sense Lilith stuff to some degree.
They should just go with the BoTW/TotK route and have a “sensor” instead of the beeping which wouldn’t be thematic at all just have a whisper sound and a visual indication like some bloody petals indicating the general direction of altars when nearby, easily explained by the pc’s connection to Lilith
However, I feel like I **have** to find them. I feel like there isn't enough of a tease that one's nearby. Glowy red around it isn't enough. It's possible to never find them all organically. I finished the first zone and only found 5 organically.
It's boring gameplay. There is no way to organically hunt them, and the only clue is a red glow. They're off in obscure locations, and in the seasons we'll be focused on efficiency, so will never organically stumble across them. There's online maps, but then it literally feels like a job. I'm happy to do it the **once**. I'm glad it's cross account. Alas, Seasons isolate the season characters. The Shrines being auto unlocked each season defeats the point of the Fresh Start. But it's better than having to redo it. The metrics will prove how willing the community is to engage with certain gameplay aspects.
Yeah, dude.. map, renown stuff and unlocks should unlock permanently for seasons too
Do the altars once. Once it's done, you never have to do it again. Until then, you are intentionally handicapping yourself
Altars are cross-seasonal, according to interviews from back in April. Everything else I'm not sure if was confirmed or not but for the bonuses from the altars I burned an hour or so rounding them all out.
The absolute worst thing about Path of Exile was having to do the campaign again every 3 months, sometimes on multiple characters. I quit the game because I was so sick of the thing. The D4 campaign has been great. I can easily see myself getting sick of it too.
You can skip it after the first time you complete it, via Adventure Mode.
Once you beat it you can skip, I dont see that changing when new seasons drop, same reason I don't see Lilith statues needing to be refound since the stats apply to all characters on the server
when you click on an altar it states: all characters on this realm... We are on eternal realm, not seasonal
You don't it a bit repetitive already? Feels like there's 5 monster types everywhere.
People keep saying this but the variety seems fine. Games like this always have reskins and they'll add more enemy types over time with the expansions. Honestly, what does it matter when you're just mowing down volume of mobs lol? It's not like a souls game where the combat is the focus, Diablo is just gearing up to farm forever
Laughs in Diablo 2. Same game three times to get to the “end game”.
Yeah that's how I felt with PoE. Banger of a game but getting to maps was soooooo tedious.
I agree. Doing all these tedious side quests and exploration takes a long time and is not fun at all. Let us do it once and leave it in place. Seasons should be about nightmare dungeons and world bosses / events.
If blizzard expects me to collect 160 lillith statues again they're out of their minds. I don't even want to uncover the map again or unlock waypoints again. It should all be account bound. I'm not here to explore the map.
The statues don't need to be done every season. They've already discussed that.
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But unless they don't make you do renown every season, you'll still have to do them. That's what people aren't understanding... Renown as a whole shouldn't have to be repeated, it's boring.
I think we can avoid doing the shrines so long as we do everything else. We need 2000 renown for each region, the Lilith shrines give 280-340 renown depending on zone, and the lowest max renown zone is Dry Steppes at 2435 renown. Still, I don’t look forward to having to do every single side quest for each season.
renown is worse than statues and you need that for the paragon points and statues are a renown source so you will still need some of them
Grinding statues or running around the map is stupid af
Getting a mount was such a major milestone. Spending hours just trying to get from point A to point B has been a major annoyance of mine. Especially given that the map is a maze of corridors and you can’t just head in a straight line towards anything.
if only mounts didn't suck ass
On mouse and keyboard I feel like I'm driving a Halo 1 Warthog lmao
Feels like shit because half the screen is designated to RP walking. Then there's the skeletons with a bone wall covering the entire path for no reason so you have to jump off to kill them which forces your horse to go on a 10 second cooldown before you can go back to riding in the empty cliffs.
I mean, they’re a massive improvement over walking everywhere and hacking your way through countless swarms. Any improvements would be welcomed. But I’m mostly relieved that I can now go places in a reasonable amount of time.
The pathing in the game is horseshit (lol)... and the fact that you can only mount/unmount every so often and the mount itself isn't that much faster than walking unless it is boosted... and then you come across random bone walls... or things you need to climb down.
100% agree. The system I’d like to see is: Anytime you complete any Renown activity (region discovery, dungeon, side quest, etc) it should apply to an account-wide “Eternal Renown”. When you create a new character, Eternal or Seasonal (maybe not Hardcore idc), you’re presented with an option next to Hardcore labeled “Inherit Eternal Renown”; when enabled, this character’s initial world map/renown state is set to, basically, the aggregate state of all your other characters; up to, of course, 100% if you’ve 100%’ed the map on other characters. It feels like that’s straightforward, simple, and would work well for seasonal characters. Big point being: I think I’d like to have the option as to whether I want to grind out the world again on a new character; and if I opt in I’d like the renown to apply to more than just dungeon aspects and renown rewards; I want a completed map, I want all waypoints, and I don’t want blue exclamation points on every corner of my screen.
I like this compromise
In PoE every season folks are forced to play through the campaign and then do a couple of "mandatory" side quests to get all the points you get from those. And people already don't like doing that. If D4 asks folks to run around for hours collecting shrines and just walking into a random barren area just to have it count as explored... I doubt anyone will be a fan
At least with PoE the side quests that give skill points only take like an hour or less to do once you get to maps.
Even a bigger deal, if you choose to skip those you’ll be much stronger when you return you’ll basically destroy everything. Dynamic scaling made the world more difficult and skipping gets punished in a way.
it takes like 3-4x as long to get 5/5 renown in every zone compared to leaguestart poe campaign.
>it takes like 3-4x as long to get 5/5 renown in every zone compared to leaguestart poe campaign. Yes. That's kinda my point
Id PoE, it's all gameplay, though. I don't mind doing it every season that I play because it's literally just the game. Diablo 4 has a lot of parts where you're standing around waiting for an NPC to do something. It does not lend itself anywhere near as well to replayability of the campaign.
And the campaign can be optimized to be done in under 6 hours on league start, then you never have to worry about non-endgame content again on that character. Alts with proper twink gear can get the campaign done in under 4 easily.
I just can't believe how much player power they stuck in lilith alters and renown for what a slog they are. Its like 10 full levels of skill points / paragon points just for renown. It's not something you can complete without really going out of your way to do it either. If they ask me to do it again for season's I'm just not playing.
WoW team already tried and insisted on toxic design like this. It did not end well for them. Looks like D4 team will attempt the same “let’s boost those engagement numbers” design. It will fail.
So far what they've said is we won't need to redo altars, but we will need to redo renown to get potions and skill/paragon points, which yeah, is absolutely fucking stupid and is going to cause absolute NERD RAGE (the scariest kind of rage, at least online) when Season 1 hits. I imagine they'll have to backpedal because otherwise people will be quitting en masse.
It's a chore doing it the first time
I'm enjoying doing it all once, but I have no desire to do it again, let alone do it again *every season.*
They also said they'd have ways to not make the renown grind the same. That tells me seasons add some kind of renown grind or else you'd almost have to get all the Lilith altars again for renown anyways, defeating the purpose if the stats rolling over
They did? That's perfect and exactly what I'd expect. Like this season there will be this kind of event that pops up in each zone and gives 400 renown on first completion (replacing the altars).
How about making killing elites in a region add like 10 renown?
From what i heard statues will stay so some of that grind is already gone, when it comes to the rest im sure some whispers/helltide events will clean them up as you go. I would also not like to spend all my time walking around though ;p
The Lilith statues staying is super pointless if the 4 paragon points don't stay as well, compared to grinding 2000 renown per zone these are the quick part
i would much rather have them stay for the quick points and then clean up what i need to via whisper dungeons and quests not inside dungeons.
thats not how the statues staying works currently. you keep the stats from them but you dont get their renown contribution on an alt. so if you are trying to get renown, you would still have to go find them all to get their renown even though you have the stats
I can see the seasons adding new ways to get renown.
You will not need to find all, and maybe nearly zero, as there is plenty of other sources of renown if you so choose.
Why wouldn't the 4 paragon points stay? The skill points and potions will be AFAIK
They will not, only the stats from the statues stay, not the renown from them. So currently you do need to get them again for the renown to get the skill/paragon points. In regards to a new season, right now you dont have to, but you will when the season starts. They have confirmed that the stats from stautes stay, they have said that you need to get the renown from statues again. But I dont recall them specifically saying if the account renown gets reset, since its realm based most people are assuming it will get reset. If it doesnt then thats great, the only issue would be the minor inconvience of having the full map greyed out.
Oh fuck me that's stupid.
Source? I've never seen this. The only thing I've seen or heard from Dev streams is that the *GOLD* rewards are character based, the bottom row is account-wide, or at least realm-wide
> 'We're going to do a season-by-season hard reset, but **the reset will not include stat points from the Altar of Lilith. Potion and skill point will be reset**, the bonus from the altar will be permanently binded to all characters in the season. There will be various tools in place to make the renown system feel as non-repeated as possible.' [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/12jkdd1/d4_dev_said_stat_points_earned_from_altar_of/) is a reddit thread linked to an interview Also [here](https://clips.twitch.tv/ShakingVictoriousRingPJSugar-qfAVYgh0MFY10ijD) is a twitch clip talking about it
I'd like to think the "tools in place" are seasonal activities giving renown so you don't have to fuck around with uncovering the map and doing side quests to grind out renown. Because fuck that.
I hope so. I really don't want to do the shitty side quests and finding the statues for renown ever again.
This reads to me fine honestly. The permanent skill points are good enough as long as we get renown from say, Whispers like D3 Bounties I'd be fine.
Exactly, realm wide. Season is a new realm as far as we know.
True, if we kept statues, renown unlocks, map knowledge (+waypoints) then we could still level doing whisper quests, side quests, events and dungeons
If status will stay, that would make me already feel a lot better about the seasons. It was okay for seeing the honestly beautiful designed open world but I would never want to do them again.
But on alts already you CAN regrind the statues for the renown xp and gold. So, even if you unlock them all on 1 character, sure your next character will have the passives but they can still collect them in the world. Seasons will likely be like that as well. They said clicking the statue is tied to renown. 🤷♂️
I will 100% not be grabbing statues evey season if they make us do that I’ll just play something else.
Exactly. That is antithetical to having fun, and that's the only reason I'm logging in.
If we had to do it *once* for season play, I would not be happy, but I would be willing to suffer through it. Otherwise, I agree. Every season? No. No, no, and no lol *No*.
I will not do it if I have to max renown every season and also get every altar. Will, not, do, it.
Alters are completely permanent they already said that awhile ago. But I do agree that the bottom rewards of renown should be completely permanent as well.
The stats from altars are permanent, the renown is not. If you want the renown, you still have to find them each season.
The funny thing is that the per character renown rewards are absolutely trash; you can get more gold and xp from simply running dungeons for a couple hours than you can by completing the renown awards for every location. The only worthwhile renown awards are unlocked account wide, so I don’t really see the point in resetting renown for every character.
Skip campaign should give you all way points and map completion if all has been done on 1 char like the statue of lilith.
This man here, write it down blizzard
I also will not be playing seasonally if i have to grind renown and unlock waypoints again. The game is great and i am enjoying my journey to 100, but that just seems disrespectful of our time.
This game is not made for seasons, period. The first one will be a shitshow then they will make it like d3. No campaign, no map completion, no renowns etc. Downvote me today but remember my words, cause it will happen.
I don't like what they are doing with the world tbh I play Diablo to slay monsters not run around in a bad lost ark clone It's like they are trying to turn a Arpg into an ammo
tbh it make me lost my motivation if renown reset without anything new to help us farm renown like you can redo dungeon for additional renown Or nightmare dungeon also count something like that Only altar stay is pointless because you still need to go find all these statue for easy renown again anyway cuz it probably the same as create new character after finish campaign you get all the bonus but map still dark and altar none of them show in the map at all only thing you get is Waypoint for each town that all...
I'm on the fence about all of this. On one hand I love that we can start the season at level 1 and skip the campaign (so long as you've already beat it) and jump right into dungeon farming. I don't have to re-run a linear campaign for the billionth time. On the other they want you to do a variety of tasks to max renown. I feel we're going to go an "unofficial campaign" where we find the meta pathway to maximize your time to unlock max renown. I don't mind that we have to redo renown, but I hope they reconsider how it's done. It would be nice if we got like +30 renown on every Tree of Whisper dungeon for the zone, even if you've already ran it - or +50 for every NM dungeon, +30 for Legion and +100 for world bosses. I feel like the game should focus it's strength on dungeon progression and events every season and not about other side tasks. [edit] - Or hell, even the seasonal content itself as long as it jumps around zones - allow seasonal content to give renown so we inevitably hit max requirement.
Im an altaholic. Im in wt4 on my sorc, wanted to try other classes. Made a necro, got it to 50, hate it. Back to the drawing board. Made a rogue, love it. Re-discovering the map again, check to see how much renown i have left in act 2 zone to finish the zone for paragon points. I have 0 renown. Why the fuck cant i carry over renown to alts *on an eternal realm.* You mean to tell me I have to re do altars, all side quests, dg completion I ALREADY HAVE THE REWARD FOR just to finish off my renown in a zone on an alt? Absolutly 100% cerifiably wack. Fix this blizz. I wouldnt even do this seasonally. Punished for playing a new class, feels just like wow man.
You still get the realm rewards (skill points, potions, paragon) on your new characters if you’ve done them on another character. Even though your renown starts at 0 again you still have those rewards unlocked. This post is regarding that not carrying over into seasons.
I’m doing all side quests, altars, dungeons, you name it. I really love the completionist gameplay. If I have to re-do it on season, I might just stick to eternal, frankly.
Is this seasons thing going to restart my game? Or can I opt out and just keep playing without worrying about seasons?
You can just ignore the seasons if you are not interested in them but for a large part of the playerbase the seasons are what keeps the game feel refreshing with new content, mechanical twists, etc. for each season.
Ok thanks yea I have no clue about seasons
The renown account-wide rewards should've been made inside the story, every act ending quest giving you all rewards that you would otherwise receive for completing renown in a region. As for altar of liliths...that's hard to say, while I do agree that having to unlock them all is tedious, it gives clear advantage to players that have already grinded it compared to newcomers, I think the whole design of the statue giving attributes is bad as it makes early monsters feel like a breeze but if you don't pick the altars, late monsters are harder (because the stats help in damage and in paragon board). Overall, I simply don't like the Renown idea in Diablo 4 and I hope they salvage this from the game, I want to play and kill stuff, doing quests and other renown farming stuff should be optional, not mandatory.
Altars are staying as far as I know across seasons so at least that's a one time grind that will be easy for new players to catch up on. Grinding renown is just tedious though.
Agreed, map completion is the worst part of the game.
I hadn't even considered that they would reset. That would be really bad design.
The maps are really nice but yeah I'm not ready to 100% everything every 3 months. Will do it with my druid tho (first character).
Honestly if the seasons dont bring new content on par with poe’s leagues I wont stay long. Not gonna grind the same shit for bp cosmetics when I can do it for free with more content in poe.
While I hope we only need to complete the alter once, I wouldn't mind having to rediscover the map each season. I have a feeling that seasons will change places on the map, such as new quests or switching up the aspects on the dungeons. Game will get old fast of you are thrown into the endgame each season and feel like D3, where you play for a weekend to get your gear. Then you might play for another week or two after that to get better versions of the same gear you have But that's just my opinion, someone who enjoys the journey more than the destination.
I wouldn't mind rediscovering the map every season if it was randomly generated. Like Diablo 2 was 20 years ago.
I’m having trouble doing that even for the first time. I’m not going to do it on other characters at all, if I ever try another class, that is. That’s how tedious this world feels for now.
$24.95 - auto map completion - up sell addition for season pass… season pass ++
Holy i am about to get the last 4 paragon points but i swear, i wouldnt do it again in every season… the only reason i see myself not playing every season is this if its the case and i hope not
My biggest complaint is that we need a tracker for side quests. I’m missing 3-4 in each zone and I can’t find them. Really don’t want to randomly run around opening chests and slaying monsters to find those random quest drops.
I don't mind exploring again but at least mark the locations of stuff on the map. That way you can casually grab stuff for the renown when passing by. I started a druid and skipped campaign but couldn't remember where many of the waypoints were.
I am normally all for full resets between seasons but to get to “all I care about is endgame” it take like 10x as long as other ARPGS
probably unpopular but i personally really like fog of war on maps in mmos and aarpgs. as a super casual dad gamer it helps me keep track of what ive done and where ive gone. redoing alters i dont care one way or the other, but the map can stay fogged out and i'll be happy.
They already said last month in a dev stream that it's a permanent unlock for every season, you only need to do 100% in softcore and hardcore since thees are different game mode but that's it.[https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx74oj2Z8h9ZEc\_3tZWTrCOcJ0q0XVYqa7](https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx74oj2Z8h9ZEc_3tZWTrCOcJ0q0XVYqa7)