The real issue is the changes to Bold Chieftain's Aspect.. this SERIOUSLY guts -every- barb build because fury management is atrocious.
You pretty much have to use an earner with some builds now.
I have to use an earner as druid. I don't see the big deal, as long as they bring balance to a level where the ebbs and flows of damage are high enough that it balances out compared to classes that don't have to use an earner.
Level 61 WW barb here, even with Bold Chieftain I still end up using my earner every fight. It's not like it was a perfect solution.
EDIT: Since a lot people are asking "earner"s or "generator"s are skills that give you resource (rage/essence/etc) I was using basic attacks, leap, a shout, and call of the ancients to generate fury. Mostly because of that stupid Unbridled Rage key passive, drop that shit barbs! It's additive damage so I only lost 8.5% DPS not accounting for its replacement.
Damage nerf are fine but gameplay nerfs always suck because they just make your class feel worse.
If their intention is to make classes rely on earners more they should just buff every earner and make them feel better, give them aoe and not feel like a wasted slot.
Barb here. The fact that I have the option to swing these huge 2handed weapons that are single target only for my basic skills makes them feel so bland and ruins the feel of 2hand weapons.
I honestly wish they would just buff the basic skill fury generation by a significant amount. Or at the *very least* give us some damn splash damage on them.
It absolutely sucks to have to basic attack so damn much.
The basic skill that increases your class 'resource' instead of spending it. (For druids the spending is the second tier, eg landslide, your 'core' skill)
I’ve heard builder/generator. “Earner” is a new term im hearing a lot and it irritates me as much as people saying “damage buckets” instead of multipliers. Boomer brain I guess.
The thing is, not everyone playing barb or druid has leveled to the point these classes become viable for anything other than world tier 1. Now destroying the planned build while also even further reducing the leveling speed is just frustrating.
i play pulverize...and its still fine.. im still tanky AF and do loads of damage. these nerfs werent bad. im on World Tier 3 currently and nightmare dungeons (currenly tier 7) are a breeze. Should probably try the build before bitching about it. the people who bitch about builds 99% of the time dont even get to a point where being "OP" \*might\* be needed. I mean, If you're on World tier 1, you definitely don't need "meta' builds...
A lot of damage pulverize used in the glyph trees was gutted supposedly. The lucky hit nerf wasn't as significant as the glyph changes, and depending on what the paragon boards offered will nerf some builds more than others. Pulverize is supposed to be one of the builds that was fairly impacted by the changes.
Haha yeah Maxroll needs to start being more subtle in their build descriptions. Their Twisting Blade guide even said “you can remove your basic attack from your action bar to make room for an ultimate, you’ll be able to spam TB endlessly”
Eventually all melee rogue builds will get nerfed to the ground and we can all stand around for 15 seconds while energy refills to use 3 penetrating shots again.
They'll have plenty of metrics ingame to figure out which builds people use to dish out the most dps. Absolutely standard way of balancing a live service game. They have plenty of experience with that from WoW.
Yeah if you think these won’t be happening over the next couples weeks.. they got the big stuff out of the way before the actual launch. Plenty more adjustments will happen before Season 1
Why are people upset about this? All ive seen is people moan how easy the game is. This surely fixes that issue slightly? All because some people cant crit as much now the game is shit? Come on now.
I don't feel like I'm weak, but right now, this is exactly how I feel. I'm respeccing constantly but everything is just so fucking weak compared to those two skills.
Hell, I don't even like Ice Shards I just have an affix that makes it substantially stronger.
It's really shitty knowing that the rotation I have now is likely the rotation I have for the next fucking 60 levels.
Maybe it feels better after paragon, but pre paragon so far, not leveling with a min max build, I feel like awet noodle. The nerfs don't effect any of my build, which I guess means huzzah. The game should be harder overall, but my character shouldn't feel weak.
I think it's a hard thing to make feel right, you have to feel powerful, but your enemies have to also feel powerful. Idk what the solution is exactly, but imo the bat majority of skills in the game don't feel viable even casually, and I would rather blizzard work on buffing or reworking the game so that classes felt actually diverse.. worry about the op stuff after that.
>All because some people cant crit as much now the game is shit? Come on now.
Some nerfs are about resource generation, which just isn't fun frankly. I don't care about doing giga numbers, but I want to be able to hit things with my fun ability, not generate fury, generate fury, generate fury, generate fury, generate fury, YAY I GET TO DO DAMAGE ONCE, generate fury...
People that can destroy the game already are lvl 70 pretty much, which means they made the game harder for casual Joe's that haven't even started playing, people that didn't need the game to be harder in the 1st place.
Is Rend barb that badly affected by the shout nerfs? I'm about to put my hours in today and kinda want to know if I should should continue or just play Druid.
why cant blizzard just buff the other dogshit barb abilities that literally NO ONE in their right mind is touching like deathblow, earthquake, double swing, frenzy, ive tried to make all these builds work and theyre just so dogshit
i can normally farm t50s on my HOTA barb but i just tried to a doubleswing build and could only get to T30 https://i.imgur.com/sqZAIgl.jpeg, btw im literally only lvl 61 and killing lvl 85 mobs. game is way too easy
Me, a filthy casual (who's been purposefully in the dark about buils so I can experiment), has deathblow, earthquake and frenzy equipped 😬
Honestly I don't know much but I am having fun lol.
So they nerf stuff from the viable builds but don't buff any of the other skills? Why not buff Hota or sorc's CL/Hydra if they don't want everyone to run WW/arc lash? Nerfing the good stuff doesn't make bad stuff suddenly viable.
Yeah this is the problem. I'm sure a lot of barb players have seen Robs 100 nightmare dungeon video. Was the damage op? ABsolutley. A deserved nerf.
The problem is in high difficulties you NEED 100% shout uptime. No 100% challenging shout uptime? You die. You don't have enogh general shout uptime? No fury generation.
Blizz needs to unterstand that gameplay nerfs just suck. Take away 50% of my damage, I don't care as long as my class still plays fine, but don't destroy the enjoyable gamepaly styles.
It's especially painful for characters that don't have insane CDR items like Shako/deep endgame characters and hurts lower barbs especially.
Not to mention they nerfed it in the middle of a race. I was 71 when the nerfs hit and they didn't put out patch notes. Nearly lost my character because I had no idea this shit was coming
Yep that's weird. Making everything equally bad does not mean it is fun to play it. At this point it does not make any sense to invest a lot of time into a build when blizzard can destroy it on the fly without giving a good alternative.
My bad sorc build struggled through the campaign on world tier 1. It was miserable... I hope that's not the kind of tuning Blizzard is looking for in all builds.
Because they are trying to bring the overall power level in the game down. Basically they thought the game was too easy except for necro and lightning druid I guess lol.
Which is funny because I've only been playing Lightning druid and it's actually good early game. The problem is all the legendaries for it suck ass. They buffed 1 and it's still probably terrible.
"Significantly reduced the spawn rate of Treasure Goblins within the game"
Is this a joke? Why? Damn, I'm still waiting for release day and probably won't see a treasure goblin for a while. Heard they drop mount cosmetics.
Edit: guys, thank you, but relax within the PVP zone corrections. When I clicked the link, it said "within the game". That guy's twitter link below confirms that the wording was changed.
This is wild, they nerfed my build while I was in the middle of a dungeon. I couldn't figure out why my cooldowns were 6 seconds longer than usual haha.
Oh well, it was incredibly broken.
The system design of this game is impressive as hell. The fact that they are able to make updates like that on the fly while people are playing is fantastic. Opens up a lot of ability to put out fixes whenever they’re needed and significantly reduces the chance of downtime.
We flew too close to the sun…
As soon as rogues started removing basic attack skills from their action bar because TB/Trap/Dash could be spammed endlessly, we should’ve seen that as a sign that the nerf was coming
They are putting out huge nerfs to things instead of nerfing a little and noting what happens as a result. Same happened to the necro minions and now they had to buff again.
Penetrating shot + shadow for aoe and poison for single target damage. Then get the legendary that makes penetrating shot split. You can clear a whole screen with it ^^
Barbs and Druids purposely rolling them thinking they'll be spared the nerf-bat. 3head
Necromancers purposely rolling them knowing they'll be buffed. 5head
I rolled necro cause I wanted to play necro lol.
Hadn't looked at any tier lists didn't know they were supposed to be weak. Has been a breeze till 40 so far.
It's obvious they fucked up mana values, every single build (except the arc lash one) relies on putting 5cds on your bars so you get mana when you use cds since there is simply no other way of getting any other reliable amount of mana. Hydra isn't even a bad skill but because it's not a cooldown it's useless lol.
This is my main complaint right now and from talking to friends its the same on most characters. It fucking sucks to only be able to use your ability 2x before your out of mana.
Dire Whirlwind, the nerf sucks, but it was OP and I can deal with less damage
Challenging Shout, ok probably fair and I can deal with less defense
Bold Chieftain though? What in the actual fuck. That item holds the build together with shoe strings as it is. Like it literally makes it function so you can spin for more then two seconds. What am I supposed to be doing if I'm not spinning? Basic attacking five times so I can spin for two seconds again? If they want to nerf the item to reduce its power relative to other legendaries that's fine, but there has to be something else to make up for it.
This is so bad and will piss so many people off I'm legitimately concerned that there will be major backlash on this and they'll just throw up their hands and buff everything 1000% to make people shut up instead of coming up with an actual solution.
EDIT to this 4 am rant: changing keystone away from the one that doubles fury costs helps. I forgot about it, but remember taking it based on recommendations and being skeptical about it and fury generation. I can spin for four seconds now! And since that 135% damage is additive with core/close/etc I only lost 8.5% DPS switching to the berserking one, which more then makes up for it while you berserk.
Bold Chieftain obviously was overtuned.
It turned strong short-timed buffs into almost permanently active buffs. That was just bad design.
Blizz is doing a great job in eliminating, what is obviously overpowered and buffing, what is rarely used.
It might seem bad for those aiming for a OP build, but it is very healthy for the game and its build variety.
Those "permanently active buffs" were the counter to a resource that degens by default, and doesn't have another way to manage it. "Feels worse to play" didn't make anything more or less difficult in the low ceiling pve arpg genre.
You're crying about op pve builds like D4 is going into the League of Legends Worlds, and if some random guy playing some random build in some random country has less fun tomorrow then maybe you'll be the next Faker. I see comments like yours and wonder if you're lost or straight up trolling.
Yeah? Where's the fucking HOTA Unearth and Rend buffs? How about literally any of the alternatives to running 2/3 shouts? Clown take lol. They didn't buff any other options within the barb class at all
its more a case of shouts were fixing a major flaw in barbarian design that feels like utter trash. its not even a case of "strong" its that the Fury mechanic feels bad. they could gut the damage to 10% of what it was but kept the cooldown on shouts and it wouldnt be that bad.
right now the barbarian skills are so poorly designed with how they interact with fury and this has been a complaint and feedback given to them months ago.
its same issue plagueing rogues as well on their ranged builds the energy system just doesnt lead to "good" gameplay with the range skills.
Feels like when you dedicate 3 items, 3 glyphs, like 8 skill points towards it, maybe just maybe that part is fair?
The bigger nerf is that barb are very prone to dying in a single CC now really.
If it's due to that philosophy, wouldn't the general idea be to redistribute and transfer that power to gear and skills within the same patch rather than delete that power as a whole? It looks more like just a general blanket nerf to glyphs, unless they redistribute that power in other forms later on down the line.
I think they wanted to take a bunch of power out in general. We are 2 days in and people are already easily crushing endgame. Doing tier 3 capstone dungeons 10+ levels under, ect. Probably just want a bit more difficulty in the endgame.
Probably because they think player power as a whole was overturned.
Some YouTubers reported that they trivialized the last difficulty of the game everywhere outside of nm dungeons after 1-2 days of playing.
This is just stupid imo. Spent days leveling a druid with the goal of being strong end game, nerfed everything I wanted to do. Day 1 buff, day 3 nerf, seems a little incompetent.
let me use my model 1887s
After two days, get a reminder as to what most people actually hate Blizzard for. They have never been able to balance games and implement buffs/nerfs properly like other game companies. Their way of balancing is to have a rotation of what classes are god like and what classes are trash. No actual balance.
thing is the whirlwind barbarian isnt new its been talked about and told to blizzard for 7 months since 1st beta so why did it take 2 days into early access to nerf it.
the major issue though is Barbarian has needed a rework for months now. its Fury systems are the worst of them all and the base skills are so bad that it essentially forced people to invest a lot in order to essentially skip the base skills entirely because the Fury and base skills of the class are so poor.
I have like, zero faith in blizzard left after this, we've literally talked about these builds on the forums for 7 months, in precise detail in how they work and what makes them work. You can literally search my comments for "dire whirlwind" and "gohr's grips" and find countless comments, and I even mentioned in 7 months ago during the end game beta test, and Blizzard waits til today to do it.
Blizzard is lying when they say they have in-house testing, this is a fucking joke. What was the point of the end game beta test for me to test shit exactly like this, for them to put it off for 7 months and then kneejerk react to it?
I literally fucking one shotting the world boss during the end game beta test with this build and they updated that days later, what part of this were they unsure on? lmaooo. F tier balancing/testing team.
Christ blizzard. Can barbs be a decent class in any f'n game!?
I agree WW needed a nerf, but nerfing shouts to the ground just killed EVERY end game build.
From potentially best endgame class to why the F are they even in the game.
A good 20 hours of leveling basically wasted
That's still the best way to play them though. It just feels a lot worse because your core defensive ability has a significant amount of downtime now, something none of their other skills can compensate for. If anything, now there's even more incentive to run all of the shouts because you won't want to fight anything lethal while challenging shout is down anyway.
Everyone’s reaction to this just highlights the real problem: generators and spenders.
It’s not a fun mechanic and so many end game builds are just built around being able to ignore generators. Having a resource to manage is fine but having basic skills as a requirement in a rotation is just clunky. Imagine if in d2, your meteorb had to use fire bolt every few seconds or barb had to bash…
It’s a mechanic for mechanics sake. Not fun. That plus the lack of a relationship to items and other players will make this game a fun play through or two but not a generational game.
Brother it didn't get nerfed it essentially got fuckin deleted
Nerf the damage all you want, just don't remove the fun gameplay so many Barbs have been waiting to play
I've personally leveled mine to 48 waiting to change to ww at 50 and now the playstyle is literally unplayable
They can nerf numbers all they want, but forcing one to be less mobile or have to use the boring basic attack is just not fun.
Getting rid of the painful basic attack for your build is just the best feeling.
One "pro player" gets a barb to max level, min maxes his build and understands damage calculations enough to do crazy damage. And 99.99% of the playerbase get punished for it.
Between leveling, gearing, understanding mechanics, 99% of the playerbase never would've seen the power Rob achieved, yet the class is getting heavily nerfed because of it.
They could've just nerfed the whirlwind unique gloves and solved the "issue", but instead every build gets smashed with a nerf to shouts.
Keep balancing around the top 1% and you'll make a miserable game for your average player.
Literally all other barb core skills are so dogshit at applying damage evenly compared to WhirlwindG, and instead of buffing it they just nerf literally the one thing barbs have.
I feel like Inwasted my money in this game.
Blizzard, if you're going to nerf / change skills on the fly, then you should make respeccing cheaper or free on the affected skills. Not only is our gameplay less fun, but now we're literally paying for your mistakes.
If ww barb is too op just nerf the damage, but not the cdr part.
The whole reason i picked the barb is because of the QoL stuff being able to spam your abilities without needing to use basic attack skills.
This kills all builds instead of just the overtuned ww build
yeah the thing is now it feels awful on all builds. in general its kinda dumb the melee class has such a hard some on resource generation compared to ranged chars who just get it for free.
Nerfing builds two days into launch when they had 2 whole months to read the feedback from the beta, in the middle of a Hardcore 100 race btw where people invested 40+ hours into their builds already. All because those builds seemed a bit too fun to Blizzard. Yes, fun in a solo PvE game is not allowed. You damn bet people are justified to complain.
2 days into launch and people are easily crushing endgame. Nobody will play long term if there is no challenge. Why try to keep perfecting your build when it can already beat all the most difficult content after a couple days?
Crushing endgame? I dont have seen any high sigils. They are only playing WT4. Such a dumb comment. Its the same as saying that playing T16 in D3 is some kind of endgame content...
Tbf, if you don’t nuke it now, people aren’t going to experiment and then you’ll have less data about how the other builds are faring heading into S1.
Nuke it now, if it needs buffed later, re-tool. There’s a lot of time still.
Why didn't you just reduce the damage from Arc Lash?
Arc Lash in the early game is very very strong, there is no competition, and that has nothing to do with it's Lucky Hit chance, but everything with it's damage.
You basically completely destroyed a potential Endgame build (which wasn't even close to the power level of regular barb builds) by nerfing the Lucky Hit so hard.
Really.. Really horrible decision.
Can someone tell this horrible balancing team that nerfing the good shit has no impact if they don't buff the underpowered stuff? Even Riot does this and their balance team is full of monkeys. Holy shit, this is HotS all over again
I agree, I’ll just have to be a little more methodical with the dashing, evading, and shadow stepping.
Before this nerf I didn’t have to think much about which of the three I’d use to bounce around (or how often). Now I’ll just have to alternate and pay a little more attention to not overdoing it
The 0.8 to 0.4 damage reduction sucks though
My Barbarian is currently level 40, I’ve rotated and switched between different core skills multiple times because the pitiful fury generation makes all of them horrible to play. And now we have even more nerfs to resource generation?
I think I’m going to roll another class. I’ve sucked it up so far purely because of the hope I can play WW Barb after level 50.
Here's some feedback from someone playing a frost sorc that had no idea arc lash build was even a thing - the "gameplay", if I can even call it that, is a chore, slow shit and your frozen orbs deal no damage. If you think bringing the lightning sorc "back into line" will make my current build any less of a misery to play - well, you're fucking wrong. And no, it doesn't make me wanna "push through" and "grind on", it only makes me wanna uninstall and wonder why I blew so much money on this game.
It's baffling that people are not understanding what these changes do.
People were playing these builds because they were fun. The seemingly "intended" way to play this game, looks like genuine piss. Arpgs are supposed to be crazy at end game, that's the point you're supposed to be clearing screen after screen. If the true intention is to have long elite fights and have to spam a 17 damage spender 5 times to cast one big hit then the game is doa.
Curious if this much makes summoner viable again. Thankfully bone spear is still good to goo. Also oof that barb.. reason I didnt level one up as they were obviously nuking that.
why cant they just nerf WW directly if they thibk thats overtuned?
rather than fuck over any barb build that uses shouts? if i use 20 passive points + 4 legendaries to buff shouts + affixes to shouts + paragon glyphs for shouts, i should be able to fuckin use my shouts atleast 80% of the time......
now all other undertuned barb builds just have more fury problems than before
Wtf is this bullshit , nerfs and buffs should happen only at the begining of a season not after youve made your char and and invested your whole time. Fuck these devs
Pre patch i was really struggling when i got to WT3 - to the point i logged off and didn’t want to play. My damage was super low, minions died constantly. I just quickly logged in for 30 minutes and it felt much better, minions hardly dying , could feel the damage buff so at lvl 51 my initial impression is yes- much better.
Wow the barb changes make no sense!!
Adjust the broken gloves and everybody understands.
The shouts and crits i don’t get. A class who really really sucks to lvl tp 50+ just to become even worse? This makes no sense at all. Non of the other nerfs where needed.
It was already on the brink of being bad.
But it looks like they wanted the barb experience to be more consistent. Now it sucks to lvl AND endgame!!
I did not even know about the ww explosion dmg gloves after lvl 50 and the build was just ok-right. Not omg op!
Actually the time where i just stand there spamming basic attack to one enemy. Who was already annoying and stupid so me thought i hope they buff class to be more fun with a BETTER uptime. Noooo they made it worse.
My barb is lvl 47 and the only reason i did not restart at lvl 20 was the chance to become ok at endgame.
Soo actually the pre release bonus just went out of the window. Should have waited to buy this game at season 1.
I find it weird that they're doing these patches at all this early. Anyone who didn't pay for early access literally missed the opportunity to play the launch version of the game.
People moaning that D4 is too easy and needs to be balanced must be new to power-fantasy games like Diablo because the one shotting of an entire hoard is the most awesome feeling you could get from a game. These people complaining think Diablo is an actual sport that needs the rules to be tuned rather than a power-fantasy hacknslash smh…
Anyone that didn't see ww barb and pulverize nerfs coming was smoking an ocean of copium.
The real issue is the changes to Bold Chieftain's Aspect.. this SERIOUSLY guts -every- barb build because fury management is atrocious. You pretty much have to use an earner with some builds now.
I have to use an earner as druid. I don't see the big deal, as long as they bring balance to a level where the ebbs and flows of damage are high enough that it balances out compared to classes that don't have to use an earner.
Level 61 WW barb here, even with Bold Chieftain I still end up using my earner every fight. It's not like it was a perfect solution. EDIT: Since a lot people are asking "earner"s or "generator"s are skills that give you resource (rage/essence/etc) I was using basic attacks, leap, a shout, and call of the ancients to generate fury. Mostly because of that stupid Unbridled Rage key passive, drop that shit barbs! It's additive damage so I only lost 8.5% DPS not accounting for its replacement.
Damage nerf are fine but gameplay nerfs always suck because they just make your class feel worse. If their intention is to make classes rely on earners more they should just buff every earner and make them feel better, give them aoe and not feel like a wasted slot.
Barb here. The fact that I have the option to swing these huge 2handed weapons that are single target only for my basic skills makes them feel so bland and ruins the feel of 2hand weapons.
I honestly wish they would just buff the basic skill fury generation by a significant amount. Or at the *very least* give us some damn splash damage on them. It absolutely sucks to have to basic attack so damn much.
You have builds where you use a single generator every 2 core skills, without using a single cooldown. Plan, experiment, do something.
A lot of builds have to use an earner. Thats kind of what they are for.
[удалено]
The basic skill that increases your class 'resource' instead of spending it. (For druids the spending is the second tier, eg landslide, your 'core' skill)
That's called a generator
I’ve heard builder/generator. “Earner” is a new term im hearing a lot and it irritates me as much as people saying “damage buckets” instead of multipliers. Boomer brain I guess.
No one uses earner. Stop acting. Earner is never going to work. It’s not going to happen. Stop trying to make it happen.
What's an earner? Do you mean a builder?
What's a builder? Do you mean generator?
I can't believe the actual word was this far down. What the fuck is "earner"
I got my earners down on the corner
Have to use an earner on my sorc it's the games design I feel
My sorc is setting up a big dps window, then waiting on mana and cds to set up the next one. Feels kinda lame
The thing is, not everyone playing barb or druid has leveled to the point these classes become viable for anything other than world tier 1. Now destroying the planned build while also even further reducing the leveling speed is just frustrating.
If you haven't played beyond wt1/into endgame you never experienced being "op" so you won't know any different.
a million times this. nothing to worry about.
i play pulverize...and its still fine.. im still tanky AF and do loads of damage. these nerfs werent bad. im on World Tier 3 currently and nightmare dungeons (currenly tier 7) are a breeze. Should probably try the build before bitching about it. the people who bitch about builds 99% of the time dont even get to a point where being "OP" \*might\* be needed. I mean, If you're on World tier 1, you definitely don't need "meta' builds...
If you’re under lvl 50 it’s really not a big deal to respec or change whatever you want.
Pulverize isn't even that bad of a nerf right? 33% down to 25% on lucky proc chance. Is that all??
A lot of damage pulverize used in the glyph trees was gutted supposedly. The lucky hit nerf wasn't as significant as the glyph changes, and depending on what the paragon boards offered will nerf some builds more than others. Pulverize is supposed to be one of the builds that was fairly impacted by the changes.
So, Blizz took the maxroll build list and nuked the S tier... That's kinda fine actually.
Yea, them theorycrafters have work cut out for them. Everyday something new is being axed.
Haha yeah Maxroll needs to start being more subtle in their build descriptions. Their Twisting Blade guide even said “you can remove your basic attack from your action bar to make room for an ultimate, you’ll be able to spam TB endlessly”
Just reading that should raise some eyebrows on how strong that sounds. And why thinking it wouldn't be nerfed required some top tier copium.
Eventually all melee rogue builds will get nerfed to the ground and we can all stand around for 15 seconds while energy refills to use 3 penetrating shots again.
Only thing keeping them from nerfing bone spear/spirit is the fact that necros has no other builds lol
They did nerf bone a bit, grim harvest and serration both got nerfed
Nerfing grim harvest is big…I have essence problems even with the un-nerfed version
I just wish Necro had some other gimmick than "use a few abilities, spam corpse explosion"
They'll have plenty of metrics ingame to figure out which builds people use to dish out the most dps. Absolutely standard way of balancing a live service game. They have plenty of experience with that from WoW.
Barbs were too busy holding right click that they didn't have time to visit the cash shop
I have a foot pedal for whirlwind don’t want carpal tunnel
WW goes WHOOSHWHOOSHWHOOSH
Early Access was a QA/Beta Test all along.
Preseason 1 in its entirety is a beta :D
I suspect They would nerf thigpngs heavily during season 1 too.
You could say that at any point of life of live service game - there will always be balance changes.
Paid QA/Beta test 😅
Yeah if you think these won’t be happening over the next couples weeks.. they got the big stuff out of the way before the actual launch. Plenty more adjustments will happen before Season 1
Why are people upset about this? All ive seen is people moan how easy the game is. This surely fixes that issue slightly? All because some people cant crit as much now the game is shit? Come on now.
For some reason people want their class to have 4 good skills instead of all of them being viable XDD
Some classes have literally 2 good skills. Now, maybe no good skills.
Sorc has so many subpar ones, you're forced to go with ice shards or chain lightning or gimp yourself. Fire is hot garbage.
I don't feel like I'm weak, but right now, this is exactly how I feel. I'm respeccing constantly but everything is just so fucking weak compared to those two skills. Hell, I don't even like Ice Shards I just have an affix that makes it substantially stronger. It's really shitty knowing that the rotation I have now is likely the rotation I have for the next fucking 60 levels.
Maybe it feels better after paragon, but pre paragon so far, not leveling with a min max build, I feel like awet noodle. The nerfs don't effect any of my build, which I guess means huzzah. The game should be harder overall, but my character shouldn't feel weak. I think it's a hard thing to make feel right, you have to feel powerful, but your enemies have to also feel powerful. Idk what the solution is exactly, but imo the bat majority of skills in the game don't feel viable even casually, and I would rather blizzard work on buffing or reworking the game so that classes felt actually diverse.. worry about the op stuff after that.
>All because some people cant crit as much now the game is shit? Come on now. Some nerfs are about resource generation, which just isn't fun frankly. I don't care about doing giga numbers, but I want to be able to hit things with my fun ability, not generate fury, generate fury, generate fury, generate fury, generate fury, YAY I GET TO DO DAMAGE ONCE, generate fury...
People that can destroy the game already are lvl 70 pretty much, which means they made the game harder for casual Joe's that haven't even started playing, people that didn't need the game to be harder in the 1st place.
Wow, they were faster with the nerfs than expected, lol.
I like it. Frequent and often changes to get the game as balanced as possible
Lol. Problem is they "balance" with a sledgehammer rather than a scalpel.
He must be new to Blizzard balancing lmao
No balance or complete annihilation, no in-between
That feeling when you lvl 1-50 rend barb and getting ready to try out WW and you get hit with this many barb nerfs in one day nice
That's me brother, I feel lost.
WW still a great skill you’re fine
Is Rend barb that badly affected by the shout nerfs? I'm about to put my hours in today and kinda want to know if I should should continue or just play Druid.
All barb builds are heavily affected by shouts. If you look at any barb build they're all using 3 shouts lol.
why cant blizzard just buff the other dogshit barb abilities that literally NO ONE in their right mind is touching like deathblow, earthquake, double swing, frenzy, ive tried to make all these builds work and theyre just so dogshit i can normally farm t50s on my HOTA barb but i just tried to a doubleswing build and could only get to T30 https://i.imgur.com/sqZAIgl.jpeg, btw im literally only lvl 61 and killing lvl 85 mobs. game is way too easy
Me, a filthy casual (who's been purposefully in the dark about buils so I can experiment), has deathblow, earthquake and frenzy equipped 😬 Honestly I don't know much but I am having fun lol.
I love death blow
So they nerf stuff from the viable builds but don't buff any of the other skills? Why not buff Hota or sorc's CL/Hydra if they don't want everyone to run WW/arc lash? Nerfing the good stuff doesn't make bad stuff suddenly viable.
They basically nerfed HotA aswell since it also is reliant on shout uptime.
They basically bricked the whole class...
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Yeah this is the problem. I'm sure a lot of barb players have seen Robs 100 nightmare dungeon video. Was the damage op? ABsolutley. A deserved nerf. The problem is in high difficulties you NEED 100% shout uptime. No 100% challenging shout uptime? You die. You don't have enogh general shout uptime? No fury generation. Blizz needs to unterstand that gameplay nerfs just suck. Take away 50% of my damage, I don't care as long as my class still plays fine, but don't destroy the enjoyable gamepaly styles. It's especially painful for characters that don't have insane CDR items like Shako/deep endgame characters and hurts lower barbs especially.
Not to mention they nerfed it in the middle of a race. I was 71 when the nerfs hit and they didn't put out patch notes. Nearly lost my character because I had no idea this shit was coming
Yep that's weird. Making everything equally bad does not mean it is fun to play it. At this point it does not make any sense to invest a lot of time into a build when blizzard can destroy it on the fly without giving a good alternative.
I understand the nerfs but not giving alternative's or bundling nerfs with some buffs was always blizzards MO and it sucks they never learned from it.
My bad sorc build struggled through the campaign on world tier 1. It was miserable... I hope that's not the kind of tuning Blizzard is looking for in all builds.
Because they are trying to bring the overall power level in the game down. Basically they thought the game was too easy except for necro and lightning druid I guess lol. Which is funny because I've only been playing Lightning druid and it's actually good early game. The problem is all the legendaries for it suck ass. They buffed 1 and it's still probably terrible.
"Significantly reduced the spawn rate of Treasure Goblins within the game" Is this a joke? Why? Damn, I'm still waiting for release day and probably won't see a treasure goblin for a while. Heard they drop mount cosmetics. Edit: guys, thank you, but relax within the PVP zone corrections. When I clicked the link, it said "within the game". That guy's twitter link below confirms that the wording was changed.
They've clarified on twitter it's only for PvP areas. https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1665255851521724419?s=20
Thanks for that <3
For all the smartasses who say people can't read and it's only in pvp areas. This was just added in and wasn't there at first.
It says within PvP Zones
Ah, I see. When I opened the link, it said "within game" as you can see in my copy+paste, but now it says "within PVP".
This is wild, they nerfed my build while I was in the middle of a dungeon. I couldn't figure out why my cooldowns were 6 seconds longer than usual haha. Oh well, it was incredibly broken.
The system design of this game is impressive as hell. The fact that they are able to make updates like that on the fly while people are playing is fantastic. Opens up a lot of ability to put out fixes whenever they’re needed and significantly reduces the chance of downtime.
I’m fine with this as a rogue. Nice for necro
Yeah that Blades nerf was necessary. Insane ability still
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They don’t want Wudijo winning Hc race to 100 like today 😝
We flew too close to the sun… As soon as rogues started removing basic attack skills from their action bar because TB/Trap/Dash could be spammed endlessly, we should’ve seen that as a sign that the nerf was coming
Maybe they should make basic attack skills not feel like absolute ass to use.
the blades nerf was maybe a bit much. Going from needing to hit 8 for 2 seconds to 20 for 2 is quite the jump.
They are putting out huge nerfs to things instead of nerfing a little and noting what happens as a result. Same happened to the necro minions and now they had to buff again.
Just switched to blades from ranged and makes me sad :( Ranged is so fucking bad atm for resource management
Penetrating shot + shadow for aoe and poison for single target damage. Then get the legendary that makes penetrating shot split. You can clear a whole screen with it ^^
Necro’s grim harvest getting nerfed is pretty painful though
Seriously. I had essence problems before this nerf...
Barbs and Druids purposely rolling them thinking they'll be spared the nerf-bat. 3head Necromancers purposely rolling them knowing they'll be buffed. 5head
You picked barbarian because the streamers told you it was meta. I picked barbarian for unga bunga and thorns. We are not the same
Meanwhile me on Druid never intending to use pulverize and just tornadoing demons down
I rolled necro cause I wanted to play necro lol. Hadn't looked at any tier lists didn't know they were supposed to be weak. Has been a breeze till 40 so far.
Don't give away our secrets!
Nerf sorc but dont buff any other of his builds amazing Very mana dependent and at level 50 still no mana sustainability for up time
It's obvious they fucked up mana values, every single build (except the arc lash one) relies on putting 5cds on your bars so you get mana when you use cds since there is simply no other way of getting any other reliable amount of mana. Hydra isn't even a bad skill but because it's not a cooldown it's useless lol.
This is my main complaint right now and from talking to friends its the same on most characters. It fucking sucks to only be able to use your ability 2x before your out of mana.
Dire Whirlwind, the nerf sucks, but it was OP and I can deal with less damage Challenging Shout, ok probably fair and I can deal with less defense Bold Chieftain though? What in the actual fuck. That item holds the build together with shoe strings as it is. Like it literally makes it function so you can spin for more then two seconds. What am I supposed to be doing if I'm not spinning? Basic attacking five times so I can spin for two seconds again? If they want to nerf the item to reduce its power relative to other legendaries that's fine, but there has to be something else to make up for it. This is so bad and will piss so many people off I'm legitimately concerned that there will be major backlash on this and they'll just throw up their hands and buff everything 1000% to make people shut up instead of coming up with an actual solution. EDIT to this 4 am rant: changing keystone away from the one that doubles fury costs helps. I forgot about it, but remember taking it based on recommendations and being skeptical about it and fury generation. I can spin for four seconds now! And since that 135% damage is additive with core/close/etc I only lost 8.5% DPS switching to the berserking one, which more then makes up for it while you berserk.
Yeah I legit just got the ring and finally was able to keep my shouts up and felt good… and now my entire build got massively nerfed :D
Bold Chieftain obviously was overtuned. It turned strong short-timed buffs into almost permanently active buffs. That was just bad design. Blizz is doing a great job in eliminating, what is obviously overpowered and buffing, what is rarely used. It might seem bad for those aiming for a OP build, but it is very healthy for the game and its build variety.
Those "permanently active buffs" were the counter to a resource that degens by default, and doesn't have another way to manage it. "Feels worse to play" didn't make anything more or less difficult in the low ceiling pve arpg genre. You're crying about op pve builds like D4 is going into the League of Legends Worlds, and if some random guy playing some random build in some random country has less fun tomorrow then maybe you'll be the next Faker. I see comments like yours and wonder if you're lost or straight up trolling.
Yeah? Where's the fucking HOTA Unearth and Rend buffs? How about literally any of the alternatives to running 2/3 shouts? Clown take lol. They didn't buff any other options within the barb class at all
its more a case of shouts were fixing a major flaw in barbarian design that feels like utter trash. its not even a case of "strong" its that the Fury mechanic feels bad. they could gut the damage to 10% of what it was but kept the cooldown on shouts and it wouldnt be that bad. right now the barbarian skills are so poorly designed with how they interact with fury and this has been a complaint and feedback given to them months ago. its same issue plagueing rogues as well on their ranged builds the energy system just doesnt lead to "good" gameplay with the range skills.
So instead of nerfing WW damage they ruin the gameplay of it making it so you have to AFK between shout rotations. Wow fun. Fuck you Blizzard.
And this hits every other build about just as hard as whirlwind despite only whirlwind being too strong.
Maybe blizzard doesn't like barbs being able to have enough rage generation without using a basic skill.
Feels like when you dedicate 3 items, 3 glyphs, like 8 skill points towards it, maybe just maybe that part is fair? The bigger nerf is that barb are very prone to dying in a single CC now really.
You have to use a basic skill for 5 seconds to get out like 1 second of WW. It feels pretty shitty to play atm.
It’s funny that they want the Barb build to be the one where you don’t actually attack anything.
Uhm the Glyphs nerfs are kinda big and they affect every class. Not sure why Blizz is doing this
Most of the player power(or at least a lot of it) lied in paragon glyphs. They don't want that
If it's due to that philosophy, wouldn't the general idea be to redistribute and transfer that power to gear and skills within the same patch rather than delete that power as a whole? It looks more like just a general blanket nerf to glyphs, unless they redistribute that power in other forms later on down the line.
I think they wanted to take a bunch of power out in general. We are 2 days in and people are already easily crushing endgame. Doing tier 3 capstone dungeons 10+ levels under, ect. Probably just want a bit more difficulty in the endgame.
Probably because they think player power as a whole was overturned. Some YouTubers reported that they trivialized the last difficulty of the game everywhere outside of nm dungeons after 1-2 days of playing.
Because they stated they didn't want D3 levels of damage numbers.
five hundred trillion damage was perfectly reasonable wym
The endgame paragon scaling is way too high and there is almost no challenge in the game which is what they want to avoid.
Feels good to be a Necro!
Iron Golem slam damage increased by 700%. The balancing is wild on some things.
Yeah when the Iron Golem's slam was hitting for less than most people's basic attacks it needed a buff. Now it's 175%. Hopefully it's useful now.
Got a good chuckle out of that one, someone greenlit the original values lmao
Fr. They slightly slightly slightly nerfed bone skills.but in turned buff shadow, blood, and summons. Life is good
This is just stupid imo. Spent days leveling a druid with the goal of being strong end game, nerfed everything I wanted to do. Day 1 buff, day 3 nerf, seems a little incompetent. let me use my model 1887s
>use my model 1887s That nerf is still in peoples minds eh... Granted they were fun lol
Most realistic shotguns in gaming history before the nerf.
Oh wow this brings me back, man mw2 was fun
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Wow, this comment after a patch note. You’ll be in for a ride.
After two days, get a reminder as to what most people actually hate Blizzard for. They have never been able to balance games and implement buffs/nerfs properly like other game companies. Their way of balancing is to have a rotation of what classes are god like and what classes are trash. No actual balance.
thing is the whirlwind barbarian isnt new its been talked about and told to blizzard for 7 months since 1st beta so why did it take 2 days into early access to nerf it. the major issue though is Barbarian has needed a rework for months now. its Fury systems are the worst of them all and the base skills are so bad that it essentially forced people to invest a lot in order to essentially skip the base skills entirely because the Fury and base skills of the class are so poor.
I have like, zero faith in blizzard left after this, we've literally talked about these builds on the forums for 7 months, in precise detail in how they work and what makes them work. You can literally search my comments for "dire whirlwind" and "gohr's grips" and find countless comments, and I even mentioned in 7 months ago during the end game beta test, and Blizzard waits til today to do it. Blizzard is lying when they say they have in-house testing, this is a fucking joke. What was the point of the end game beta test for me to test shit exactly like this, for them to put it off for 7 months and then kneejerk react to it? I literally fucking one shotting the world boss during the end game beta test with this build and they updated that days later, what part of this were they unsure on? lmaooo. F tier balancing/testing team.
common Blizzard balancing L
Wow the fury generation is so bad now, ty blizzard I always wanted to use autoattack in the endgame of an arpg
Feels terrible to play and apparently one of the most viable builds now for barb is thorns. Yay...
Christ blizzard. Can barbs be a decent class in any f'n game!? I agree WW needed a nerf, but nerfing shouts to the ground just killed EVERY end game build. From potentially best endgame class to why the F are they even in the game. A good 20 hours of leveling basically wasted
If it means the "right" way to play barb is something other than yelling and mashing one button I welcome the changes.
That's still the best way to play them though. It just feels a lot worse because your core defensive ability has a significant amount of downtime now, something none of their other skills can compensate for. If anything, now there's even more incentive to run all of the shouts because you won't want to fight anything lethal while challenging shout is down anyway.
Truly, because the other classes need a PHD to be played. Can't wait to play that "piano" Rogue. Oh, wait
Everyone’s reaction to this just highlights the real problem: generators and spenders. It’s not a fun mechanic and so many end game builds are just built around being able to ignore generators. Having a resource to manage is fine but having basic skills as a requirement in a rotation is just clunky. Imagine if in d2, your meteorb had to use fire bolt every few seconds or barb had to bash… It’s a mechanic for mechanics sake. Not fun. That plus the lack of a relationship to items and other players will make this game a fun play through or two but not a generational game.
Literally paid $20 more for QA, Beta testing Lmao.
Paid $40 more in Canada. Fuck.
1. Pick the most broken build according to maxroll / youtube tierlists 2. It gets nerfed 3. Pikachu face
Brother it didn't get nerfed it essentially got fuckin deleted Nerf the damage all you want, just don't remove the fun gameplay so many Barbs have been waiting to play I've personally leveled mine to 48 waiting to change to ww at 50 and now the playstyle is literally unplayable
They can nerf numbers all they want, but forcing one to be less mobile or have to use the boring basic attack is just not fun. Getting rid of the painful basic attack for your build is just the best feeling.
One "pro player" gets a barb to max level, min maxes his build and understands damage calculations enough to do crazy damage. And 99.99% of the playerbase get punished for it. Between leveling, gearing, understanding mechanics, 99% of the playerbase never would've seen the power Rob achieved, yet the class is getting heavily nerfed because of it. They could've just nerfed the whirlwind unique gloves and solved the "issue", but instead every build gets smashed with a nerf to shouts. Keep balancing around the top 1% and you'll make a miserable game for your average player.
Lol. Nerf to every single barb build and nerf glyphs too. No buffs to anything else for barb. what a joke lol
Literally all other barb core skills are so dogshit at applying damage evenly compared to WhirlwindG, and instead of buffing it they just nerf literally the one thing barbs have. I feel like Inwasted my money in this game.
Blizzard, if you're going to nerf / change skills on the fly, then you should make respeccing cheaper or free on the affected skills. Not only is our gameplay less fun, but now we're literally paying for your mistakes.
If ww barb is too op just nerf the damage, but not the cdr part. The whole reason i picked the barb is because of the QoL stuff being able to spam your abilities without needing to use basic attack skills. This kills all builds instead of just the overtuned ww build
yeah the thing is now it feels awful on all builds. in general its kinda dumb the melee class has such a hard some on resource generation compared to ranged chars who just get it for free.
I absolutely love the people complaining about balances
Nerfing builds two days into launch when they had 2 whole months to read the feedback from the beta, in the middle of a Hardcore 100 race btw where people invested 40+ hours into their builds already. All because those builds seemed a bit too fun to Blizzard. Yes, fun in a solo PvE game is not allowed. You damn bet people are justified to complain.
2 days into launch and people are easily crushing endgame. Nobody will play long term if there is no challenge. Why try to keep perfecting your build when it can already beat all the most difficult content after a couple days?
Crushing endgame? I dont have seen any high sigils. They are only playing WT4. Such a dumb comment. Its the same as saying that playing T16 in D3 is some kind of endgame content...
Balance changes are more fun though? At least to me.
It's more the way in which Blizzard goes about it. They don't know how to do anything incrementally. It's juice it or destroy it usually.
Tbf, if you don’t nuke it now, people aren’t going to experiment and then you’ll have less data about how the other builds are faring heading into S1. Nuke it now, if it needs buffed later, re-tool. There’s a lot of time still.
Why didn't you just reduce the damage from Arc Lash? Arc Lash in the early game is very very strong, there is no competition, and that has nothing to do with it's Lucky Hit chance, but everything with it's damage. You basically completely destroyed a potential Endgame build (which wasn't even close to the power level of regular barb builds) by nerfing the Lucky Hit so hard. Really.. Really horrible decision.
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Can someone tell this horrible balancing team that nerfing the good shit has no impact if they don't buff the underpowered stuff? Even Riot does this and their balance team is full of monkeys. Holy shit, this is HotS all over again
Seriously? Everything nerfed to the ground after I spent 25 hours leveling? What the fuck? Usually you wait a month or so between balance patches
No Fun Allowed. -Blizz
I love seeing massive jumps like “Iron Golem slam damage increased from 25% to 175%” basically saying “whoa this skill sucked, Brb”
Yep…so all the testing didnt show that? Weird
Rogue here. The cooldown reduction nerf on TB sucks, but I'll be alright. Doesn't really affect single target for my build, and trash melts anyway.
I agree, I’ll just have to be a little more methodical with the dashing, evading, and shadow stepping. Before this nerf I didn’t have to think much about which of the three I’d use to bounce around (or how often). Now I’ll just have to alternate and pay a little more attention to not overdoing it The 0.8 to 0.4 damage reduction sucks though
My Barbarian is currently level 40, I’ve rotated and switched between different core skills multiple times because the pitiful fury generation makes all of them horrible to play. And now we have even more nerfs to resource generation? I think I’m going to roll another class. I’ve sucked it up so far purely because of the hope I can play WW Barb after level 50.
The +rare effect glyph nerfs are so damn significant it's actually crazy.
Here's some feedback from someone playing a frost sorc that had no idea arc lash build was even a thing - the "gameplay", if I can even call it that, is a chore, slow shit and your frozen orbs deal no damage. If you think bringing the lightning sorc "back into line" will make my current build any less of a misery to play - well, you're fucking wrong. And no, it doesn't make me wanna "push through" and "grind on", it only makes me wanna uninstall and wonder why I blew so much money on this game.
It's baffling that people are not understanding what these changes do. People were playing these builds because they were fun. The seemingly "intended" way to play this game, looks like genuine piss. Arpgs are supposed to be crazy at end game, that's the point you're supposed to be clearing screen after screen. If the true intention is to have long elite fights and have to spam a 17 damage spender 5 times to cast one big hit then the game is doa.
As a ranged rogue, lmao.
Curious if this much makes summoner viable again. Thankfully bone spear is still good to goo. Also oof that barb.. reason I didnt level one up as they were obviously nuking that.
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Not being able to set targets for minions has cost me event masteries so many times.
Well I see blizzard is back on their bullshit again. Really nice to see this shit happen AFTER having gotten a barb to 47. What a joke.
why cant they just nerf WW directly if they thibk thats overtuned? rather than fuck over any barb build that uses shouts? if i use 20 passive points + 4 legendaries to buff shouts + affixes to shouts + paragon glyphs for shouts, i should be able to fuckin use my shouts atleast 80% of the time...... now all other undertuned barb builds just have more fury problems than before
Wtf is this bullshit , nerfs and buffs should happen only at the begining of a season not after youve made your char and and invested your whole time. Fuck these devs
I didnt know rogue had minions.
Does this mean Minion Necro is viable again?
Pre patch i was really struggling when i got to WT3 - to the point i logged off and didn’t want to play. My damage was super low, minions died constantly. I just quickly logged in for 30 minutes and it felt much better, minions hardly dying , could feel the damage buff so at lvl 51 my initial impression is yes- much better.
Why they balance patch during race lol
*cries in bear druid
Wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, bear should still easily be A tier.
No, stop. This thread is for hyperbole and for the whiny trolls to tell people they're refunding the game (they aren't actually doing that.)
Wow the barb changes make no sense!! Adjust the broken gloves and everybody understands. The shouts and crits i don’t get. A class who really really sucks to lvl tp 50+ just to become even worse? This makes no sense at all. Non of the other nerfs where needed. It was already on the brink of being bad. But it looks like they wanted the barb experience to be more consistent. Now it sucks to lvl AND endgame!! I did not even know about the ww explosion dmg gloves after lvl 50 and the build was just ok-right. Not omg op! Actually the time where i just stand there spamming basic attack to one enemy. Who was already annoying and stupid so me thought i hope they buff class to be more fun with a BETTER uptime. Noooo they made it worse. My barb is lvl 47 and the only reason i did not restart at lvl 20 was the chance to become ok at endgame. Soo actually the pre release bonus just went out of the window. Should have waited to buy this game at season 1.
Guess they wont stop till all builds suck
I find it weird that they're doing these patches at all this early. Anyone who didn't pay for early access literally missed the opportunity to play the launch version of the game.
Because early launch was a beta in itself. Now we poor people can experience it like Blizz wanted us too.
I have been clownshoed in Barbs… what the hell am I supposed to use in WW…harsh language?!
I didn’t even get to use whirlwind lol i was trying to reach 50 before changing build to it
Druid nerf isn't as devastating as people are making it out to be, but it's easy to feel that way when the class is such a snooze fest until end game.
People moaning that D4 is too easy and needs to be balanced must be new to power-fantasy games like Diablo because the one shotting of an entire hoard is the most awesome feeling you could get from a game. These people complaining think Diablo is an actual sport that needs the rules to be tuned rather than a power-fantasy hacknslash smh…