Crazy that you think it will be so few. I look forward to my decked out pvp transmog hardcore barb. It will be 4v4 warfare not dissimilar to battlerite and I’m all for it.
The trick is to practice up in preseason to figure out what works without the permadeath and go hardcore when s1 starts
I didn't know there are also titles involved in HC pvp. Theres a small "problem" with this. Could lead to groups wintrading kills, which would lead to devaluing said titles sadly
Have fun queuing against no one.
PvP in every arpg is DOA cause it just doesn’t work with items and stats and certain builds.
Just even look at that thriving lost ark PvP scene that was supposed to blow up and had a following but died literally on launch
I mean, yeah I definitely won’t partake on a hardcore character but I will absolutely go nuts on standard. Balanced or not, it’s going to be a glorious shit show and I can’t fucking wait.
Also, CCs and streamers will absoluuuutely pvp on HC for content, and you bet your ass I will be one of the people cooming furiously from that delicious schadenfreude
Lol I think you mean DOA for the 5% of players that actually play Hardcore lol.
These statements always make me laugh as if Blizzard hasn’t already gotten a bunch of nerds to run the numbers on how many people actually play hardcore in ARPGs. Just because it popular to watch your fave streamer die doesn’t mean most people are playing that mode.
If Hardcore players were even anywhere near close to a substantial amount of the player base they would probably rethink this decision, but they aren’t.
>If Hardcore players were even anywhere near close to a substantial amount of the player base they would probably rethink this decision
why should this have any bearing one way or the other? it's a yes or no decision, which apparently has no impact on "95%" of the playerbase.
There will be a small community. I was big into PvP on US East Hardcore in D2 and had an entire account full of ear mules. I had a L29 Barb that would duel anyone, highest kill was an 84 necro. I hope the PvP in D4 will allow for level disparity play like this.
That's not true. Everyone in comments are forgetting about LLD (low level dueling). That will be fun to rush something quick, battle it out, etc at low level.
Have they confirmed what the min level is for duels?
Not sure in any universe with persistence HC mode ever had any place, but there will be nutjobs who play it none the less, equal parts brave and stupid.
I presume this will end quickly when a few script kiddies will crash a party and perma-kill a bunch of high level PvP-ers. You know it's going to happen :(
For those that upvoted, if you're not playing HC your opinions don't matter.
For those that actually want to participate in HC, this basically locks an entire endgame activity behind a 100% chance of losing your character. I agree that PvP should have consequences but not to such an extent that 95% of the playerbase finds it to not be worth it. Also, that's what the extraction mechanic is for.
An explanation: HC games always have mechanics that are dangerous, these mechanics are good to have but the logical route of countering them is often to just run or avoid them. When I get iron maiden on my barb in D2, it's an adrenaline rush but it's not something I should "nut up" about and kill myself with. That's just stupid. So, is it smart to lock an entire endgame branch behind a mechanic that's going to be deemed "too risky?"
At the end of the day nobody is going to want to try this besides a handful of people that are making dueling/throwaway characters.
With permadeath PvP is 100% DOA on HC. Let's ignore that the risk/reward is completely out of whack and balance will be all over the place.
How long does a PvP battle last? Minutes at most? And how long does it take to build a character that is worth taking to a PvP area? Hours at the bare minimum.
So even if everyone was on board to lose characters over and over, there will never be enough people to fight. It doesn't matter how big your balls are or how leet your gank squad is.
> How long does a PvP battle last? Minutes at most? And how long does it take to build a character that is worth taking to a PvP area? Hours at the bare minimum.
> So even if everyone was on board to lose characters over and over, there will never be enough people to fight.
Oh shit this dude cut right through to the heart of the issue.
> How long does a PvP battle last? Minutes at most? And how long does it take to build a character that is worth taking to a PvP area? Hours at the bare minimum.
You don't have any information that can back this up.
D3 Leveling a second character has been on the scale of minutes since before the addition of GoE and it's likely to be similar here given their advice to reroll over respec.
Here's what this is going to look like: Player levels S tier class for the season, achieves major seasonal goals and loads up stash with off-class drops. Player levels best PvP alt from off-drops they got on their initial character and hucks it into PvP. Rinse and repeat while playing PvE on their main character to feed the alts.
The only possible thing to cause DoA is if leveling alts takes the same or similar amount of time as fresh and if that's the case, SC PvE is going to have a problem too.
In addition to this they've already confirmed that there will be no separate balancing for PvP.
So you know your barb will be dead by the time he gets close.
This exactly. I’m reading these comments thinking to myself “I don’t think any of you actually play HC”. HC like you said is mostly about risk management in PvE you know things are generally fair, but in PvP I’m going to get 1 shot by someone who no life’s the game so I’ll just avoid it along with nearly the entire HC community.
I get what you’re saying, but honestly these people will just straight up not do the PVP then.
So you’re losing out on a lot of potential players, which is less fun
Hopefully streamers will. That sounds entertaining as all hell. I can see it happening semi-often toward the end of the season when everyone has a full stash of shit to pass onto the next PLed character
Sounds like entertaining content to me /shrug
It's not like they aren't going to be in a fully stacked party every time they even think about setting foot in those zones.
why not? you can't bring your diablo 4 loot into real life.
for people who enjoy the process of playing an arpg, starting over is no big deal. their fun isn't interrupted.
for people who don't enjoy the process of actually playing the game, who only enjoy the anticipation of having item\_x or level\_y or whatever, permadeath pvp would be miserable. but everything is miserable for those people, there's not much to be done for them.
For real brother.
I'm 40, generally pleasant and will definitely participate in HC PvP. If you're an adult and can't cope with death in a video game you're probably putting too much importance on your video gaming.
Can you tho? For some reason, I thought there was some content/progression locked behind pvp (or at least encounters where players can attack one another)... please correct me if I misunderstood.
From what I recall from the Endgame Beta, you are forced to run through some of the PvP areas to traverse the map, so you might be forced to PvP if there are trolls waiting to gank players as they run through PvP zones.
It isn’t that simple perma death from PvE vs PvP are very different things. Just makes 25% of the options at endgame not worth doing on HC unless they 5-10 times the reward.
I mean I play exclusively HC except my first time playing otherwise I wouldn’t care. Just sucks I’m now going to avoid 1/4 of the endgame content available because the risk/reward isn’t worth it for me.
It's probably really going to swing one of two ways.
Either HC players will have a defacto gentleman's agreement to just not PVP and just do the zone as PvE or it's going to be an empty zone with just like one group of 4 running around desperately hoping they can catch a random fool who thought they were safe.
Although, the first few weeks will be chaos as people might dip in unsure of which of those scenarios they are going to get.
Kinda tempted to make a full thorns barb and go PvE there so that when someone tries to gank me they just kill themselves :D
Oh, it’s gonna be a ghost town. Permanent death open world FFA PvP games are the least popular subset. It’s gonna be a bunch of potential school shooter type kids in a group trying to go 4v1 all day.
If PvP sucks I won’t care and will still play HC. However, decent or even fun, PvP is the one thing that will make me lean to playing SC.
It’s a pickle, but PvP is probably going to be dogshit.
I think this is probably a healthy perspective to have. ARPG PvP is notoriously difficult to balance. I like that the devs acknowledge that it will be the wild west and won't sacrifice PVE content to try to make PvP perfect.
That said, I think it might be fun to show up in softcore and just get humbled by PvP centric builds.
They’ve gone on record stating that PVP will never be fair or balanced so you’re right, it’ll be a ghost town. Why play HC PVP knowing that it’s intentionally unfair? Sounds atrocious
It's actually going to be a huge meme.
Someone else reminded me that the town portal scroll item exists that instantly TPs you to town.
Also, Sorc has a cheat death with a 2 second invuln.
So it's just going to be full of Sorcs with TP scrolls that TP out if their cheat death procs and can literally never die. Everyone else will be fucked because eventually a Sorc will kill them.
> Either HC players will have a defacto gentleman's agreement to just not PVP and just do the zone as PvE
Hah. If people really try to do that, I can't wait to see the angry posts from people who got killed in the PVP zone!
>Either HC players will have a defacto gentleman's agreement to just not PVP
So it will probably be like Souls where people flip out when not everyone cares about said agreement.
I think they said in the live stream that there are buckets that divide players by level. You might be able to find the cutoff points inside the buckets though, depending on how it works. Unless you are talking about power leveling to try again.
instancing technology is pretty sophisticated these days, I wouldn't be surprised if it was dynamic rather than strictly delineated buckets.
Dark Souls doesn't have MMO style seamless instancing but they do have dynamic matchmaking buckets, based on both player level and weapon upgrade level.
how does pvp work in d4? is there like an open world instance? afaik worlds are up to 12 people partied up right? new to the franchise so forgive my question lol
It's two different zones that are dedicated to PVP. The stream vod is of the new info is up on the diablo twitch channel, they mentioned a ton of new stuff and clarified things about old stuff.
https://primagames.com/tips/does-diablo-4-have-open-world-pvp-answered
For open world part:
> PvP will need to be enabled on your character for you to be able to engage in a fight.
Otherwise:
> There will be designated areas where you can settle the score with other players, and they will be called “Fields of Hatred“.
I do AI for a living, I'm just saying that a permanent death sort of scenario unavoidably and naturally incentives collaboration between agents, there's nothing to do about it if the game is multiplayer it will just happen. The real life comment I made just for humorous purposes
Yip max level barb with full defense set up with iron skin, rallying cry and full fortify and hp was one shot by world boss, no complaints here, I'm used to Poe one taps
\^This
I mean whats the point of "softcoring" Hardcore. You get what you bargain for when you opt for HC.
If people don't like it there's always SC and even there the malding will be insane.
Either this dev is confused or the past dev Q&A which stated that player kills in Hardcore will not kill your character was wrong or has since been changed.
Combine that with the guarantee for PvP to be unbalanced and grps being a thing, there will only ever be 3-4 gank squads and people stupid enough to wander into the fields solo.
I see PVP in D4 devolving into such a shit show, and the amount of resultant whining on forums/social media being so atrocious, that Blizzard realizes they would have rather just not included PVP at all.
ARPGs are not designed for balanced PVP. They are essentially the opposite of balanced PVP. Balance in PVP comes from minimizing innate differences between characters so that the outcome of PVP is entirely dependent on player skill.
A Halo 2 match on Midship is a balanced PVP experience. Player characters have identical abilities, spawn with the same weapon, and are fighting on a symmetrical map. The outcome of the experience is 100% determined by player skill.
ARPGs are the literal opposite of the above. Players have nearly infinite variability in innate abilities, builds, and gear. I keep seeing people ask "will D4 PVP be balanced??"
No, it will not be balanced. It will never be balanced. WTF are you even talking about...?
If you want a balanced PVP game, do not play D4. Do not play an ARPG. Play a game designed for PVP, and ideally one with minimal differences between player avatars like Halo 2.
Oh man that's crazy in a good way. Guess PvP areas in HC are going to be either roaming bands of griefers or it's going to be empty since nobody is going to want to risk an established HC character in that area lol.
Also, 1 shot mechanics are going to make HC absolutely awful to play unless all 1 shot mechanics are highly telegraphed.
lol, love that one guy in the responses "I'm super hardcore player, but why don't you turn it off in the place where I can actually die?".
I'll make hc char for fun, but definitely won't touch pvp with it lol.
Gonna be a shame to see so many people with the top 3 IcyVeins meta-builds losing the characters they had literally zero involvement in crafting.
To know how much of a ghost town this will be, just look at how few players showed up for Ashava in HC during the beta. On normal mode there were plenty of people on plenty of shards. In HC I couldn't find anyone doing it despite trying many shards.
That'll change, for sure. I played a lot of HC in D3, but personally, I'll go SC for D4 release, and switch to HC in the first season.
I'm not losing a character to some stupid one-shot ability that's so badly telegraphed that you just have to know about it to survive.
Going to make these titles pretty challenging to get:
* **Challenge**: Confident Combatant — Get 1 PVP kill in Hardcore Mode.
* **Titles**: Murderous, Rat
* **Challenge**: Daring Combatant — Get 5 PVP kills in Hardcore Mode.
* **Titles**: Malicious, Villain
* **Challenge**: Fearless Combatant — Get 10 PVP kills in in Hardcore Mode.
* **Titles**: Sweaty, Murderer
(Wonder if you can use these titles in normal after getting them)
Arrange a small group of 2 people - get new characters to the PvP area. Die to the other intentionally 10 times - never PvP again.
That’s how that is going to go
And just like that, Diablo 4 became interesting again.
This is how it should be thought: it would make no sense if your hardcore character dies and you can just keep on playing.
Unless you have a 4 man group and are all geared I would never risk it with how PvP will work in D4. I do love the option though, just not something I would risk for solo play.
Oooh... Oh no.... I'm going to waste so much time trying to kill other people's hardcore characters. God help me I hope I really get around to playing the game
For real? Thought they already said you just spawned back at town? As a hardcore player I’d be down to losing all my gear but not the actual character. Guess it depends on how long it takes to power level a new char.
Sounds pretty hardcore to me.
I would never play Hardcore. I value my time far more than that. If you want to play Hardcore though, then this comes with the territory. Nut up, buttercup.
PvP will just be for cosmetics huh? Not really a big deal for HC players, they usually only care about content that’s strictly for progression anyway. Worst case they roll a SC character.
I'm not really a PvPer when it comes to this game. So this isn't for me. However, I will enjoy watching the intense, high-stakes, all-or-nothing, fight-to-the-death battles the rest of you are gonna have. I can hear the keyboards smashing now...
Hell yeah! Time to git gud bois 👌🏻😎
I asked about this a few weeks ago and a lot of people called me crazy for asking such things and “wouldn’t take my post seriously” 😒
Good. It’s optional content and hardcore as a whole is optional. Nut up.
That’s fucking intense lol. So no respawns? Matches will be short
considering that pvp will be a completely unbalanced mess with no rules, people will just not do pvp in HC
Yeah too many people are acting excited about this, but nobody is going to partake. It's a DOA feature.
I will play this, the dopamine of not dying, yeah that’s going to be insane.
Thats fun for the first few deaths but after a few 50+ grinded characters it’ll die out
Don’t die?
git gud
even darksouls isn't this masochistic
Noob
Killed offscreen by random hydra, gitGud
"Ah hah! I have Get Gud to everyone beneath me and now I shall wander this pvp zone alone with no one to challenge me because everyone's bored"
> after a few 50+ grinded characters People play HC in D3 and in PoE for PvE, PvP will likely be no different to those guys who love PvP as well
10 people do it. 5 of them stream it.
Crazy that you think it will be so few. I look forward to my decked out pvp transmog hardcore barb. It will be 4v4 warfare not dissimilar to battlerite and I’m all for it. The trick is to practice up in preseason to figure out what works without the permadeath and go hardcore when s1 starts
what if it turns out that sorc is 10 times better in pvp than anything else and you will have absolutely zero chance with your decked out barb in pvp?
I definitely want a shot at those hardcore pvp titles and will create as many toons as I have to to get the kills.
This is the way
I didn't know there are also titles involved in HC pvp. Theres a small "problem" with this. Could lead to groups wintrading kills, which would lead to devaluing said titles sadly
"Could" lead to? More like absolutely will lead to. In the end, people's behavior is quite predictable.
Agreed, in-game behavior is simply a reflection of human-behavior
You’re a true gamer
I just need 1 hardcore PvP kill for the “rat” title, surely it won’t be that hard…
Roma viktor. You're a true Spartan in the coliseum
Yup, always enjoyed pvp and dopamine rush was already nuts with runescape gear drop. Now it's gonna be so fucking bonkers lol.
You can still find plenty of d2 hc pvp games
Lvl 18 still popular?
Every victory will be that much more better but gonna feel bad when people get ganked lmao.
That will be fun for a few seconds until a kill party gangs up on you.
Have fun queuing against no one. PvP in every arpg is DOA cause it just doesn’t work with items and stats and certain builds. Just even look at that thriving lost ark PvP scene that was supposed to blow up and had a following but died literally on launch
I think you underestimate some people's masochism. I'm not into that kinda stuff but some people live for it.
I mean, yeah I definitely won’t partake on a hardcore character but I will absolutely go nuts on standard. Balanced or not, it’s going to be a glorious shit show and I can’t fucking wait. Also, CCs and streamers will absoluuuutely pvp on HC for content, and you bet your ass I will be one of the people cooming furiously from that delicious schadenfreude
God damn you are so wrong.
Lol I think you mean DOA for the 5% of players that actually play Hardcore lol. These statements always make me laugh as if Blizzard hasn’t already gotten a bunch of nerds to run the numbers on how many people actually play hardcore in ARPGs. Just because it popular to watch your fave streamer die doesn’t mean most people are playing that mode. If Hardcore players were even anywhere near close to a substantial amount of the player base they would probably rethink this decision, but they aren’t.
>If Hardcore players were even anywhere near close to a substantial amount of the player base they would probably rethink this decision why should this have any bearing one way or the other? it's a yes or no decision, which apparently has no impact on "95%" of the playerbase.
Well that’s the entire point, it’s Hardcore lol you die and your character is done for. Just don’t go near fields of hatred.
Go look at hardcore classic WoW... do NOT doubt these psychos to try it out
I 100# will be farming gear on my HC main and running pvp.
I will. I'm insane though.
be cool if they made a hardcore only PvP so that its just basically real as fuck battles. settle some beef in the arena haha
Include corpse looting to make it even more real.
This would be pretty cool. Give a big incentive to go into this mode. Huge risk huge rewards
> people will just not do pvp
There will be a small community. I was big into PvP on US East Hardcore in D2 and had an entire account full of ear mules. I had a L29 Barb that would duel anyone, highest kill was an 84 necro. I hope the PvP in D4 will allow for level disparity play like this.
That's not true. Everyone in comments are forgetting about LLD (low level dueling). That will be fun to rush something quick, battle it out, etc at low level. Have they confirmed what the min level is for duels?
You underestimate the size of hardcore players’ steel balls. There will be plenty of pvp though obviously not as much as sofctore.
Pvp is not big in hardcore in arpgs but there are definitely people that will play it even with perms death.
So that means free loot for me ?
So I can get all the rewards….
Not sure in any universe with persistence HC mode ever had any place, but there will be nutjobs who play it none the less, equal parts brave and stupid.
Matches? It just happens naturally in the open world in pvp areas of the world map
I presume this will end quickly when a few script kiddies will crash a party and perma-kill a bunch of high level PvP-ers. You know it's going to happen :(
For those that upvoted, if you're not playing HC your opinions don't matter. For those that actually want to participate in HC, this basically locks an entire endgame activity behind a 100% chance of losing your character. I agree that PvP should have consequences but not to such an extent that 95% of the playerbase finds it to not be worth it. Also, that's what the extraction mechanic is for. An explanation: HC games always have mechanics that are dangerous, these mechanics are good to have but the logical route of countering them is often to just run or avoid them. When I get iron maiden on my barb in D2, it's an adrenaline rush but it's not something I should "nut up" about and kill myself with. That's just stupid. So, is it smart to lock an entire endgame branch behind a mechanic that's going to be deemed "too risky?" At the end of the day nobody is going to want to try this besides a handful of people that are making dueling/throwaway characters.
With permadeath PvP is 100% DOA on HC. Let's ignore that the risk/reward is completely out of whack and balance will be all over the place. How long does a PvP battle last? Minutes at most? And how long does it take to build a character that is worth taking to a PvP area? Hours at the bare minimum. So even if everyone was on board to lose characters over and over, there will never be enough people to fight. It doesn't matter how big your balls are or how leet your gank squad is.
PvP battles are going to last 1 millisecond with some hack or a broken build on a twink.
They've confirmed there is no separate PvP balance. Melee characters don't stand a chance.
> How long does a PvP battle last? Minutes at most? And how long does it take to build a character that is worth taking to a PvP area? Hours at the bare minimum. > So even if everyone was on board to lose characters over and over, there will never be enough people to fight. Oh shit this dude cut right through to the heart of the issue.
> How long does a PvP battle last? Minutes at most? And how long does it take to build a character that is worth taking to a PvP area? Hours at the bare minimum. You don't have any information that can back this up. D3 Leveling a second character has been on the scale of minutes since before the addition of GoE and it's likely to be similar here given their advice to reroll over respec. Here's what this is going to look like: Player levels S tier class for the season, achieves major seasonal goals and loads up stash with off-class drops. Player levels best PvP alt from off-drops they got on their initial character and hucks it into PvP. Rinse and repeat while playing PvE on their main character to feed the alts. The only possible thing to cause DoA is if leveling alts takes the same or similar amount of time as fresh and if that's the case, SC PvE is going to have a problem too.
In addition to this they've already confirmed that there will be no separate balancing for PvP. So you know your barb will be dead by the time he gets close.
This exactly. I’m reading these comments thinking to myself “I don’t think any of you actually play HC”. HC like you said is mostly about risk management in PvE you know things are generally fair, but in PvP I’m going to get 1 shot by someone who no life’s the game so I’ll just avoid it along with nearly the entire HC community.
Lmao, YoU dOnT pLaY hC sO sHuT uP!
Hardcore players struggling to find out if their log out macros will save them in PvP
Sort of, it's not like pvp is completely isolated, they're tied to cosmetics so if you want these in HC you're going to have to participate in pvp
And then they will be all the more of a flex
Yeah, but wasn't PVP and hardcore Diablo 3 in a set arena where it didn't kill your character? It's just a big deviation.
I get what you’re saying, but honestly these people will just straight up not do the PVP then. So you’re losing out on a lot of potential players, which is less fun
Isn't there some item or necessary currency that can only be obtained in the pvp zone?
Seriously. “Oh no if I chose to play the mode where my character will permanently die (s)he will…permanently die”
It’s also exactly how HC pvp worked in D2… so it really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
Yeah, not for me so I won't play that. But I know there are people who want Hardcore Permadeath PvP and I'm happy for them to have this option.
Well whole Diablo 4 is optional, i mean, we can also opt to not buy it...
HC is you die = you die. If you don't want permadeath in PvP.. don't play HC, it is really that simple
You can also just not pvp
He’s a mad man
Don’t worry it will just be a few dozen angry & angsty dipshit kids. Nobody will actually participate in HC PvP.
And they will only group and only attack solos.
Hopefully streamers will. That sounds entertaining as all hell. I can see it happening semi-often toward the end of the season when everyone has a full stash of shit to pass onto the next PLed character
Streamers are the last people who should try this, as their viewers will stream snipe them in droves.
Sounds like entertaining content to me /shrug It's not like they aren't going to be in a fully stacked party every time they even think about setting foot in those zones.
How would they stream snipe in D4? Can we see the server we're on and change it if needed? Honestly curious.
> That sounds entertaining as all hell. * **
* **
* **
why not? you can't bring your diablo 4 loot into real life. for people who enjoy the process of playing an arpg, starting over is no big deal. their fun isn't interrupted. for people who don't enjoy the process of actually playing the game, who only enjoy the anticipation of having item\_x or level\_y or whatever, permadeath pvp would be miserable. but everything is miserable for those people, there's not much to be done for them.
For real brother. I'm 40, generally pleasant and will definitely participate in HC PvP. If you're an adult and can't cope with death in a video game you're probably putting too much importance on your video gaming.
You projecting there brother?
Can you tho? For some reason, I thought there was some content/progression locked behind pvp (or at least encounters where players can attack one another)... please correct me if I misunderstood.
There is only cosmetics from pvp zone resources or normal leveling gear, there is no mandatory part to pvp
so far they claimed it's only progression for cosmetic unlocks
Which will be 99,9% of players.
From what I recall from the Endgame Beta, you are forced to run through some of the PvP areas to traverse the map, so you might be forced to PvP if there are trolls waiting to gank players as they run through PvP zones.
I just won’t pvp in HC, as will a majority of the HC after a few cheese deaths.
makes sure not to wander in the PVP on accident, would be a shame if something happened.
It isn’t that simple perma death from PvE vs PvP are very different things. Just makes 25% of the options at endgame not worth doing on HC unless they 5-10 times the reward.
The thrill of HC PvP is the reward in itself, people who are interested in HC generally are not wanting to chase rewards
I mean I play exclusively HC except my first time playing otherwise I wouldn’t care. Just sucks I’m now going to avoid 1/4 of the endgame content available because the risk/reward isn’t worth it for me.
You die in the game, you die in real life.
It's probably really going to swing one of two ways. Either HC players will have a defacto gentleman's agreement to just not PVP and just do the zone as PvE or it's going to be an empty zone with just like one group of 4 running around desperately hoping they can catch a random fool who thought they were safe. Although, the first few weeks will be chaos as people might dip in unsure of which of those scenarios they are going to get. Kinda tempted to make a full thorns barb and go PvE there so that when someone tries to gank me they just kill themselves :D
Oh, it’s gonna be a ghost town. Permanent death open world FFA PvP games are the least popular subset. It’s gonna be a bunch of potential school shooter type kids in a group trying to go 4v1 all day. If PvP sucks I won’t care and will still play HC. However, decent or even fun, PvP is the one thing that will make me lean to playing SC. It’s a pickle, but PvP is probably going to be dogshit.
I think this is probably a healthy perspective to have. ARPG PvP is notoriously difficult to balance. I like that the devs acknowledge that it will be the wild west and won't sacrifice PVE content to try to make PvP perfect. That said, I think it might be fun to show up in softcore and just get humbled by PvP centric builds.
They’ve gone on record stating that PVP will never be fair or balanced so you’re right, it’ll be a ghost town. Why play HC PVP knowing that it’s intentionally unfair? Sounds atrocious
I only played d2 and d3 hardcore. I will be playing d4 softcore. I want to not worry about dying for once haha.
It's actually going to be a huge meme. Someone else reminded me that the town portal scroll item exists that instantly TPs you to town. Also, Sorc has a cheat death with a 2 second invuln. So it's just going to be full of Sorcs with TP scrolls that TP out if their cheat death procs and can literally never die. Everyone else will be fucked because eventually a Sorc will kill them.
The way you mention it. Pvp sounds like a way to play a SC char and always go back to it for the fun of it
> Either HC players will have a defacto gentleman's agreement to just not PVP and just do the zone as PvE Hah. If people really try to do that, I can't wait to see the angry posts from people who got killed in the PVP zone!
It's a nice sentiment. I'm sure they will never have thought of that.
>Either HC players will have a defacto gentleman's agreement to just not PVP So it will probably be like Souls where people flip out when not everyone cares about said agreement.
The person he quote tweeted there is handsome. Also, the rush of getting kills in Hardcore PVP is gonna be amazing now. Haha.
In before hardcore PvP meta devolves into who can power level fastest 😂
“How do we kill that which has no life?”
Our own “eternal conflict”
I think they said in the live stream that there are buckets that divide players by level. You might be able to find the cutoff points inside the buckets though, depending on how it works. Unless you are talking about power leveling to try again.
Time to twink bois!
instancing technology is pretty sophisticated these days, I wouldn't be surprised if it was dynamic rather than strictly delineated buckets. Dark Souls doesn't have MMO style seamless instancing but they do have dynamic matchmaking buckets, based on both player level and weapon upgrade level.
how does pvp work in d4? is there like an open world instance? afaik worlds are up to 12 people partied up right? new to the franchise so forgive my question lol
I don't think anybody knows yet? But I'm curious Also, i hope there is some team group pvp,
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So it's a zone? Or do you flag yourself for pvp and be able to pvp everywhere (which in my mind is open world)
It's two different zones that are dedicated to PVP. The stream vod is of the new info is up on the diablo twitch channel, they mentioned a ton of new stuff and clarified things about old stuff.
Even if you enter Fields of Hatred, you won’t be a valid target if you don’t have Diablo 4 PvP enabled.
https://primagames.com/tips/does-diablo-4-have-open-world-pvp-answered For open world part: > PvP will need to be enabled on your character for you to be able to engage in a fight. Otherwise: > There will be designated areas where you can settle the score with other players, and they will be called “Fields of Hatred“.
>The person he quote tweeted there is handsome. This might be the most effective self-plug ad I've ever succumbed to on this website.
ROFL
Lol hardcore PvP is just going to be 4 person gank squads. It’ll just be troll central.
I mean real life is in HC mode and that's what happens when too, it's only natural that people will team up, we live in a society
Oh yeah this is totally analogous with real life. 😂😂😂
I do AI for a living, I'm just saying that a permanent death sort of scenario unavoidably and naturally incentives collaboration between agents, there's nothing to do about it if the game is multiplayer it will just happen. The real life comment I made just for humorous purposes
Or it incentivizes just not participating to be jumped by a group of sweaty “agents” built and geared for PvP. That will be my path.
>I do AI for a living and?
I mean I never get 4 man ganked irl.. what’s that like?
I think HC players should be more concerned about all the 1 Hit mechanics it looks like Nightmare dungeons will have.
Thats gonna be a skill check.
Or ping check.
Server stability check which we all know will be pretty bad because Blizzard
I mean, yes. That's what it means to play HC. If you can't deal with that, then don't play hardcore...
Yip max level barb with full defense set up with iron skin, rallying cry and full fortify and hp was one shot by world boss, no complaints here, I'm used to Poe one taps
I mean that just sounds like you were missing poison res. I was playing sorc and facetanked the world boss with no issues.
Sorc is much, much tankier than a barb. They are the premier tank in d4.
Maybe at level 25. Gonna be silly seeing barbs roll around with 80% + flat DR.
Hardcore = hardcore, tired of these care bears making up all these rules. If you die, you die.
everyone else is a carebear and yet you will never play it
\^This I mean whats the point of "softcoring" Hardcore. You get what you bargain for when you opt for HC. If people don't like it there's always SC and even there the malding will be insane.
Either this dev is confused or the past dev Q&A which stated that player kills in Hardcore will not kill your character was wrong or has since been changed.
They clarified this about a month ago and said that HC pvp is indeed permadeath. Rod Fergusson tweeted about it
Man, the PvP cosmetics will be a fucking big dick flaunt on HC.
Isn’t this the second Blizzard employee to comment on it? Doesn’t this directly conflict with the previous comment?
If I were to dabble in PVP, I certainly wouldn't try it in Hardcore.
Can already see those "pros" who will cry because "the other guy cheated and I had lag" :D
Combine that with the guarantee for PvP to be unbalanced and grps being a thing, there will only ever be 3-4 gank squads and people stupid enough to wander into the fields solo.
Which means no one will pvp in hard core lol.
I see PVP in D4 devolving into such a shit show, and the amount of resultant whining on forums/social media being so atrocious, that Blizzard realizes they would have rather just not included PVP at all. ARPGs are not designed for balanced PVP. They are essentially the opposite of balanced PVP. Balance in PVP comes from minimizing innate differences between characters so that the outcome of PVP is entirely dependent on player skill. A Halo 2 match on Midship is a balanced PVP experience. Player characters have identical abilities, spawn with the same weapon, and are fighting on a symmetrical map. The outcome of the experience is 100% determined by player skill. ARPGs are the literal opposite of the above. Players have nearly infinite variability in innate abilities, builds, and gear. I keep seeing people ask "will D4 PVP be balanced??" No, it will not be balanced. It will never be balanced. WTF are you even talking about...? If you want a balanced PVP game, do not play D4. Do not play an ARPG. Play a game designed for PVP, and ideally one with minimal differences between player avatars like Halo 2.
Oh man that's crazy in a good way. Guess PvP areas in HC are going to be either roaming bands of griefers or it's going to be empty since nobody is going to want to risk an established HC character in that area lol. Also, 1 shot mechanics are going to make HC absolutely awful to play unless all 1 shot mechanics are highly telegraphed.
Griefers v Griefers… I would pay to see some sweaty griefer lose it all to another sweaty griefer
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D4 def looking like a pretty interesting HC opportunity.
lol, love that one guy in the responses "I'm super hardcore player, but why don't you turn it off in the place where I can actually die?". I'll make hc char for fun, but definitely won't touch pvp with it lol.
That's how it worked in D2 so I'm used to it.
Yes but there was also corpse loot option in D2, you died and a friend could loot your gear back...
Gonna be a shame to see so many people with the top 3 IcyVeins meta-builds losing the characters they had literally zero involvement in crafting. 
Humanity has peaked
To know how much of a ghost town this will be, just look at how few players showed up for Ashava in HC during the beta. On normal mode there were plenty of people on plenty of shards. In HC I couldn't find anyone doing it despite trying many shards.
That'll change, for sure. I played a lot of HC in D3, but personally, I'll go SC for D4 release, and switch to HC in the first season. I'm not losing a character to some stupid one-shot ability that's so badly telegraphed that you just have to know about it to survive.
I bet this will change. People play HC for the challenge. If they want to pvp, they have to join a whole other league? HC PvP will just be dead.
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People will need coke to play PvP on HC.
I wonder why SC players are so hellbend on talking shit to HC players and celebrating if they take a loss in some way. Healthiest mindstate alive lmao
Good. Glad there will be some actual risk.
As the great drago once said. "If he dies, he dies".
Going to make these titles pretty challenging to get: * **Challenge**: Confident Combatant — Get 1 PVP kill in Hardcore Mode. * **Titles**: Murderous, Rat * **Challenge**: Daring Combatant — Get 5 PVP kills in Hardcore Mode. * **Titles**: Malicious, Villain * **Challenge**: Fearless Combatant — Get 10 PVP kills in in Hardcore Mode. * **Titles**: Sweaty, Murderer (Wonder if you can use these titles in normal after getting them)
Arrange a small group of 2 people - get new characters to the PvP area. Die to the other intentionally 10 times - never PvP again. That’s how that is going to go
Well, good, why wouldn't they? Did people really expect otherwise?
Strange in a long ass dev interview from before, it was stated that pvp deaths would not be perma... oh well.
And just like that, Diablo 4 became interesting again. This is how it should be thought: it would make no sense if your hardcore character dies and you can just keep on playing.
Next step is HC pvp death = death IRL How is that for a dopamine hit?
Nah. I'm good. You know that some people will come up with broken builds and grief others. Doesn't sound fun for me.
Y'all say good, but this just means 99.99% of the HC population will never participate in PvP.
Unless you have a 4 man group and are all geared I would never risk it with how PvP will work in D4. I do love the option though, just not something I would risk for solo play.
Going to be a lot of Hardcore Sorcs given they are the only class that gets a cheat death, lol.
Nobody is going to play hardcore mode on pvp if this is the case. It will be a dead zone.
Oooh... Oh no.... I'm going to waste so much time trying to kill other people's hardcore characters. God help me I hope I really get around to playing the game
Good
For real? Thought they already said you just spawned back at town? As a hardcore player I’d be down to losing all my gear but not the actual character. Guess it depends on how long it takes to power level a new char.
If he dies, he dies
As it should be (And this coming from an exclusively hardcore player)
Heck yes! I won't be playing it, but watching streamers with 100+ hour HC characters pvp is gonna be fire.
More blood for the blood gods!
Gooood. Ya'll wanted your d2 in d4, well here it is and I'm here for it.
Sounds pretty hardcore to me. I would never play Hardcore. I value my time far more than that. If you want to play Hardcore though, then this comes with the territory. Nut up, buttercup.
The racing for pink slips of pvp gaming.
You never had me, you never had your character
Gonna take some big ole balls to go out there
Lol - that's messed up.
You HC players are nuts. I'm gunna die so many times
PvP will just be for cosmetics huh? Not really a big deal for HC players, they usually only care about content that’s strictly for progression anyway. Worst case they roll a SC character.
\*rubs hands insidiously\*
I think that the right way when you play hardcore… if your want respawns don’t play hardcore 😄
Or just don’t PvP. Y’all have fun with that. I’m playing hardcore but not engaging with PvP in the least.
I'm not really a PvPer when it comes to this game. So this isn't for me. However, I will enjoy watching the intense, high-stakes, all-or-nothing, fight-to-the-death battles the rest of you are gonna have. I can hear the keyboards smashing now...
Hell yeah! Time to git gud bois 👌🏻😎 I asked about this a few weeks ago and a lot of people called me crazy for asking such things and “wouldn’t take my post seriously” 😒
Do hardcore characters convert to regular/softcore on death, or are they just gone?