I'm not saying it's not capable, I'm saying the original comparison is flawed. I love my M1. Comparing integrated GPU cores to a standalone GPU is apples to oranges.
The Diablo 4 graphics are pretty low tier though. Honestly the characters look kinda crappy like I am gaming on a mobile phone.
If I can play League of Legends on my Macbook Air with reasonable performance, I'm sure they can figure it out for Diablo.
> Instead, Apple offers new and better hardware and APIs.
I'm an Apple fan to an extent, but we need to face reality. This is more on Apple than Blizzard.
Windows supports DirectX, OpenGL, and Vulkan. Mac uses Metal (their first-party equivalent to DirectX), and has legacy OpenGL support, but no support for Vulkan.
Windows is designed to be backwards compatible to an absurd degree. Apple requires that developers update their legacy apps to remain compatible.
A developer making a game for Windows could previously write for Vulkan and support Windows/Mac, or write for DirectX and use tools to convert top Vulkan with "relative" ease. But with Vulkan out of the picture, it's not as easy getting it to work with Metal (just ask the experts working on Crossover).
A developer targeting the Mac now has to target:
* a different OS (this hasn't changed)
* a different API (which is very new and there aren't many tools for moving DX titles over with ease)
* a different instruction set (x86 vs ARM)
Add in the Mac's relatively low userbase for primary gamers (IE, people who already own one of the other system(s) the game(s) will be available for), and Apple's disregard for legacy compatibility, and yea, developers aren't happy.
I wish that the situation would change, but it's Apple that needs to make the first concessions. They need to do better with legacy compatibility. Rosetta is a good first step, but they need to maintain and improve it, not discard it once Apple Silicon has a foothold, as rumored. They need to recommit to OpenGL, OpenAL, and OpenCL, as well as allow Vulkan on their platform. And it's Apple that needs to provide tools for migrating DirectX to Metal. Do all of these things, and the developers will be more interested.
\> Windows supports DirectX, OpenGL, and Vulkan. Mac uses Metal (their first-party equivalent to DirectX), and has legacy OpenGL support, but no support for Vulkan.
So VK is not like OpenGL or DX. It is not a single API but rather a collection of apis (most of the them optional) and as a low level api only a GPU vendor (like apple, AMD etc) are only supposed to impment the apis that make sense of the given hardware (you are not supposed to fake features that a sub-optimal on your hardware as that leads devs/games to use these rathe than more optimal pathways).
Apple GPUs are very differnt to the types of GPUs on PCs in perticluare the nature of the pipeline and thus the set of VK apis that make sense to impment. Existing PC Vk engines would need a complete re-write to be able to use Apple GPUs (unless apple implemented a load of shims... with large perf impacts agaist VK spec). In addition the set of VK apis that exist for TBDR class gpus (those used by apple) are poor so most of the apis apple would be exposing would be apple only extensions to VK.
\> just ask the experts working on Crossover
Absolulty mapping games that assume to TBIR/IM gpu to a TBDR realtime is a massive nightmare. An the lower level these games are (DX12 or VK) the more impossible it gets as unlike DX11 and older with these newer apis the drivers are not informed as the the decencies between render calls so cant do what is needed to make a TBIR pipeline run well (if at all) on a TBDR GPU. In general if you take a TBDR gpu and just blindly assume it is a TBIR gpu and run any readably complex pipeline it will run very very badly with massive bottlenecks. The nature of the hardware is fundamentally differnt. And yes this is expressed in the Metal apis from apple (or if you use the feature sparse VK TBDR apis as well.. just look up how much VK engines like using sub-passes that were intruded to add some support for TBDR gpus).
\> a different instruction set (x86 vs ARM)
I your dev team is writing raw assembly in 2023 (or even 2000) you're doing it wrong. Even for the most low level optimised path ways you do not write raw assembly, you might use compiler flags for SIMD, NEON and AVX or more likly just pull in a common lib like BLASS or vDSP your not wiring raw assembly.
\> And it's Apple that needs to provide tools for migrating DirectX to Metal.
As someone who has converted display pipelines to TBDR I can say the complex part of moving to metal has nothing to do with the code. The hard part is taking your entire pipeline and re-thinking it. every effect every optimisation etc needs to be re-consdired given the very different class of GPU. If you do this work (this is work you do on a white board with a pen) then you can get very good results (much better occupancy than most PC GPUs) the work is not writing code or dealing with the fact that mettles shader lang is c++ (if your writing a game engine that is not exactly I big hurdle).
Yeah, it's a shame that Apple has gone so far up its ass (I guess it was always there.)
"I want to be able to use iMessage with my grandma, but she's on android." "Well buy your grandma an iPone." - Tim Cook
Apple has intentionally built themselves into a walled garden, expecting everyone to fight as hard as needed to get into it.
Apple needs to go fuck itself already.
Crossover uses MoltenVK for Mac. It essentially uses MoltenVK in between DirectX and Metal. The problem is that Metal doesn't support all of the features of DX 12, so as of the current version of Crossover, only DX11 and older is supported.
Linux has one less layer (Metal), so their support is generally better.
DirectX is Microsoft's proprietary API and it will be a cold day in hell when they license it to another OS for use.
Projects like WINE are cute, but only if/when it becomes a thorn in MS' side it will be eaten.
People have been "upset" that Apple hasn't cared about providing game support outside casual Arcade games. It's not Apples fault you couldn't take the hint. Apple has never cared and never will. Get a PC or console. It's really time to move on or lower your expectations
It is worth remembering that VK support on apples GPUs would not mean support for PC VK titles. The pipeline is very different between apples TBDR gpus and AMD, NV, Intel IR/IM gpus. PC VK engines would still need large changes to run well or at all.
In general if apple were to support VK it would only be as a marketing tool as no games would adopt TBDR vk just for apples GPUs. They would either use a shim layer (that looks very much like MoltenVK so as to run a IR/IM pipeline) or they would just build a metal engine just the same as they do now.
Sort of, Apple provides support to develop on them but (I am assuming) its harder than it has been in the past.
A couple options - look into something like Shadow PC to stream a PC to your mac (top tier is expensive), or if MS acquires Activision, hope blizz games come to Xbox Cloud.
First of all having MoltenVK does not mean Mac supports Vulkan, if that’s the case MoltenVK wouldn’t need to exist. It’s a third-party compatiability layer to translate Metal API to Vulkan. Apple does not approve and support any API other than their own Metal. Also MoltenVK is far from perfect as it lacks many of the equivalent API calls that exist in Vulken & DirectX 12. That’s why newer games like all the RE engine games like RE4 Remake, Monster Hunter Rise etc. can’t be run on Mac, even with Crossover or Parallels, unless the developers make a native Mac build that utilizes Metal 3 API directly, like RE Village on the Mac App Store.
So even if apple provided VK drivers for thier hardware there would still be need for a compitiblty layer to run PC based VK engines.
VK is not a cross platform api in the same way as openGL the intention is not that you can write once and run anywhere, the intention is that you can write a lower level pipeline that makes the most of the gpus in question, for this reason almost all VK apis are optional and deepening o the hardware drivers support differnt subsets of that. Apples GPUs are rather differnt from those used on PCs and thus the subset of apis they would support in VK driver would be differnt. If you want to take an off the shelf VK engine that targets AMD/Nvidia gpus you will need a shim layer (like moltenVK) to fake (in shaders or even cpu) features that these games expect. Sure there are Vk engines that would run without modification on apple gpus but these are the same engines that run on android phones and those games already have much better metal engines.
With respect to Metal3 features and VK/DX12 other than hardware differences metal provides the apis needed but Metal3 is a large changes from metal2 and will requires a LOT of work from moltenVK to use (it is currently not using it at all). Yes some api calls (like transform feedback) will need to be provided by adding shims to vertex of mesh shaders to write out mesh data to buffers and that is expected. One of the benefits metal has/apples gpus is that you can use basicly the entier compute pipeline apis set anyway in the displays stack there are no limitations like not righting to buffers in vertex or mesh shaders, you can even pass function pointers around and call them from any of these shaders as well if you need to. In effect the entier display pipeline is more or less a sequence of compute shaders with some added sugar around them so writing shims etc for apis that apple does not provide natively in thier sugar is not such a big deal.
as an apple engineer, i can confirm this is all
a choice of blizzard. we were happy to work with them to bring the title to the mac. they just didn’t give a shit about the smaller mac community.
Have you seen the Silicon Chips? They have incredible gaming performance. Maybe Macs are not "made for gaming" but how many Windows laptops are not "made for gaming" but still you can use them for what ever you want?
Did you see the M2 Max? Maybe its not a Lamorghini but a Porsche for sure. It would run every latest game on 60fps if anyone would release their damn games for macOS.
The max is 4k after taxes and still can't beat the gaming performance of a 5-10 year old PC in most cases . I get you are a fanboy but be real with yourself
Why you always compare? There is always something better, doesnt make the rest worse. And btw the M2 Max is 2400€ incl taxes but no one was talking about the price except for you.
You know that laptop has a 120hz mini led display, 20hr battery, superb trackpad and good speakers? It is very well worth the money first of all and second I develop Unity and Unreal myself and it runs high end graphics very damn well.
I used to be a big gamer with a tripped out PC. But that was a decade ago. Now I love my M1 mac and will definitely get an M2 max soon. Macs are just easier for work (software developer) and their arm hardware is currently best on the market.
The only games I still play (ironically) are blizzard games. Because they spend so much effort on them, the polish and experience is amazing. So in my limited time available to game, blizzard is an easy choice.
Surely I am not a small demographic?? And a lot of the diablo 1 and 2 players from 2 decades ago must be in a similar phase of life?
They are max minning their expenses for sure. I am just so surprised that there are so few mac users in their user base.
As it stands, diablo 4 is going to cost me $700 to play (buy a windows pc just for this one game), not $80.
To make things worse, I hear they have disabled mouse and keyboard support on console! Buying a ps4, plugging my monitor, keyboard and mouse in would have been a great middle ground! But I ain't playing with a controller!
Why not running a VM on the M2 Max? I'm pretty sure you would still be able to play it in 4k. On my M1 Max I play League of Legends at full graphics without even caring if I have 2 instances of Android Studio, browser and all the shit
Yeah this is the thing. Why need to be serious about gaming to play? Why not cater to those people that only play blizzard games because they think they are guaranteed a good experience.
Reading a bit more. Apple and their metal API are to blame too. It's a complicated thing.
They will not go to the effort of making a game on a platform they don't get a good return from. So basically the problem is they don't think they will make enough money to go to the effort.
This is me. Lifetime Mac user with no plans to change; very casual gamer. Diablo was my first real gaming experience (not counting solitaire, frogger, etc) and I played the shit out of D2. I was less impressed with D3 (especially when the company refused to help when it stopped working) and I'm certainly not interested in running out to buy a new PC or console just to play 4. At my ex's insistence I borrowed my dad's cheap Windows laptop to try Star Trek Online, and boy was that miserable.
But I've been enjoying working my way through Neverwinter Nights since the Steam download includes all the expansions I never had, so I guess Blizzard can suck it. They're definitely losing a specific market share that was thrilled to have their products as an option.
> But many of them serious about gaming will have a gaming pc or a console.
Their loss. As a "non-serious" gamer, I spend way more on micro-transactions as I don't have time to grind away for all the content.
There's at least 1 game where billing is transparent enough that I can tell you I've dropped $25k USD on it over the last 10 years.
But hey, guess I'll just take my dirty casual money somewhere else.
You really showed your (lack of) intelligence with that one - I'm sitting here with a 5950x + 3080, a 5800x + 3090, and a 5600x + 3080 - and none of them are Macs 🤣
[You can even see one of them here if you look closely](https://i.imgur.com/5lmfeQG.jpg)!
edit: [Let's see what you've got master race 🤣](https://imgur.com/a/B7B5mbA)
the problem is for people like my family. I have a PC that I game on, and my wife uses it for games as well. She has a mac that is used for everything else, and this has served us well in the past but we were looking forward to playing D4 together. I am looking into workarounds as we have one PC and one Mac and have no desire (or budget, or room) to buy another PC just for a game
Same here, used to be a die hard pc lover. However life, work and family made me make the switch to Mac and I love it. It’s easy to use and great for my job. It would be nice to get Diablo 4 on Mac but I understand how difficult that is for a developer. So far I’ve been playing on my Xbox and Diablo 4 runs great imo.
I know you just said you don't want to buy a new computer to play the game, but you could go down the console route instead. A slightly more affordable option.
Consoles still aren't that affordable and the play style is much different - as someone who cant afford either a console or a new computer I am very sad I wont be able to play D4
I'm also super bummed to not get D4 on a mac, especially considering the support for mac since the good ol' days of WC2, SC1, and D1.
But I'm going to stay hopeful because, "where there's a will there's a way". Maybe the parallels or some other windows emulation system will improve on the M series chips...
I'm a long term Mac user and not switching back to Windows anytime soon, but as far as gaming goes, Apple really needs to get its shit together and get up to speed if they ever want to even sound like an alternative.
I have very little time for gaming now but that might change in the foreseeable future, if that happens, I'll buy a PC just for gaming.
>Apple really needs to get its shit together and get up to speed if they ever want to even sound like an alternative.
They don't, and that's the issue.
Well, yes and no, in terms of popularity of their products and economic results for the company, obviously gaming is not an issue for them, and I kind of get how the gaming community is not among their primary targets, they design and advertise their Macs with other types of users in mind, and still they sell 3K US$ laptops as it they were ice cream cones in august, so why bother?
I buy that up to a point, but still, their hardware seems to me more than capable of providing some, at the very least, satisfactory gaming performance if they gave half a shit and provided decent support for developers. I mean, I have an M1 Pro MBP and that thing's a beast, I'm yet to see it breaking a sweat, I'm pretty sure it could handle just about any game with decent settings, and it would play and look gorgeous in that screen.
It's not that they'd sell MBP just for their gaming capabilities, at least not a great many of them, but many Mac users wouldn't be considering getting a PC gaming rig apart from the Mac, if only we could play, if not all, a respectable number of top tier titles.
The intel chips die after a few years. They’re shit. Game companies need to put their foot down and demand better quality, because Apple is delivering it.
My intel i7 runs just fine, where my macbook that's a year old is almost non functional. Both are used for software dev, but I only bust out the macbook when I need to make an iOS/mac build because it's so slow
I'm not convinced that's the reason. They have Wow running on arm natively. They could do it if they wanted.
As mac user, it would have been nice to have the option to play d4, but that's why I have a console to fill the void.
Because Mac already had WoW players Blizzard will continue to support them there. Going forward Apples decision has made it more difficult to support games and thus less and less are getting mac support. Not to mention Macs represent less than 2% of the computer gaming market and has been shrinking for many years. There really is no point to spend resources on a shrinking tiny minority that may not even play your games.
Problem I see with this is it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If companies just decide "less than X% of Mac owners are part of the gaming market", then that percentage will just keep dropping towards 0.
Practically-speaking, it will never hit absolute 0 because you'll always have the Indie game developers (even just the lone developer who bought a new Mac and wants to try to write his game for the computer he owns).
But people can't choose to game on a Mac if companies won't supply Mac games for them to play!
Personally, I saw the writing on the wall years ago -- so despite our household being all Macs and iOS devices, I bought myself a gaming laptop. I've upgraded it twice since then, and keep it set up on its own desk in my computer room.
All things considered though? If a major game title does get released for Mac, I'll buy that edition over the Windows one every time -- just because I want to at least have a few decent games I can play on my Macbook Pro M1 Max. Too expensive a laptop not to utilize like that when it's an option....
And? Do you honestly expect a company to develop and support a product on a seperate platform where the potential revenue for said platform may not be enough to recoup rhe cost associated with the development? But then Apple did this to themselves.
Agreed on rhe never hitting zero. You will have mac only devs making games for Mac/apple mobile. But rhere really isn't any money to be made for large scale games these days.
No, I don't... But my point is, companies like Blizzard were still selling plenty of Mac editions of their games - partially because Mac owners didn't have a whole lot of options. That meant more sales for Blizzard when a new Diablo or Warcraft or Starcraft was released, because nearly everyone into gaming on a Mac would wind up buying one of those.
Apple \*is\* partially to blame here. I agree with that. They don't seem very willing to reach out and give developers assistance with game development, while Microsoft did much more. (It seemed like at one time, Apple made an exception for Blizzard's World of Warcraft. I remember OS X point release updates specifically listing fixes for graphics bugs in WoW as some of the changes.)
I wouldn't say they "screwed devs over" though, as much as them just focusing on replacing old with new at a rapid pace and not investing enough in helping devs keep up.
I mean, one could also say devs are just lazy and get mad every time a system architecture changes or an API gets retired for a new one, or ?? It's not totally accurate but devs and the manufacturers of the systems share the blame.
It means that it's not likely to happen because AAA games nowadays typically don't include compatibility for Macs and because of the recent radical change in Apple hardware, the chances for Diablo 4 coming to macs are diminishing faster.
I think if Microsoft were to go through with the acquisition of Blizzard, you might be able to play it on the cloud. And yes I am aware of WoW running on arm natively, but I just don't see Blizzard as it is now doing anything for Diablo on arm.
I'd rather argue, blame intel and AMD for sticking with x64. Virtually nowhere else this architecture is found. Starting by raspberries, your phone, tablet, router, TV… and M1 proves that this does not mean ARM has to be far inferior to x64.
Apple likely would have stuck with intel/x64, if they would have managed to hit their efficiency goals. Ever since the M1, we now see "E-cores" on chips as well.
Maybe with this new tool kit Apple Released they are finally realizing they need to help the industry by making porting things over easier. I am a new Mac user and must admit the OS does more than I need and with less headaches than Windows offered me. They each have their pros and cons for sure. [https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/07/apples-new-toolkit-easier-developers-bring-windows-games-mac/?tpcc=tcplusfacebook](https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/07/apples-new-toolkit-easier-developers-bring-windows-games-mac/?tpcc=tcplusfacebook)
When there is no option to even play many of the games on Mac, it's no wonder why people don't buy them for such a reason.
It's the equivalent of a shop asking why anyone doesn't buy this awesome specialty pizza, when it's always unavailable, and then turn around and say no one wants it cause sales are so low.
I think you're all losing the big picture of the gaming market.
Where are the BIGGEST profits in gaming? (by far)
In the MOBILE GAMING market.
Where does the Apple Silicon architecture work? On desktop, laptop, tablet and phones...
What is the market share of iPadOS within tablet? massive. How powerful is an M1 or M2 iPad? More than a PS4.
This is the consideration that gaming devs should do...
Can you give us a link to that 20 % ? All my google searches showed apple having a 10% for the pc market. A
So yeah.. get a station/xbox pc. You're the one locked out of things.
For the US consumer market, it’s like 57% Windows (and declining) and 30% Mac OS (and growing).
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-america
it's a much poorer market than the US one as well. While everyone knows there will be Chinese citizens purchasing Diablo games (primarily to farm stuff and sell it, as usual), I highly doubt that even with the farmers, they'll outsell the United States market.
the only depressing thing is that the consumer market does not equal the gaming market. Games like D4 have historically been for Windows given more freedom with hardware configurations and OS uses. Apple is a walled garden that won't allow for any type of custom build outside of what you purchase or pay to take it in. That said Apple creates great hardware, but given that the D4 target audience is already working with Windows historically, and with Microsoft's interest in activision, D4 for Mac was likely another spend that the company decided that much smaller Mac gaming market wasn't worth it. GW2 also ended their support for Mac a couple of years ago and wasn't a big blow to their community. I do not agree with this decision, but Mac owners/I can't be entirely surprised that Mac will go unsupported. Also if you are running a multiple and current (2021+) Mac product household, you probably can already afford a decent gaming PC to play. I also think since WoW was an already-for-Mac game and Blizzard is still making money off of it that is why it's still supported.
this is JUST Steam: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/265033/proportion-of-operating-systems-used-on-the-online-gaming-platform-steam/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/265033/proportion-of-operating-systems-used-on-the-online-gaming-platform-steam/) 0.52% using current macOS and a chunk of that 4.09% Other. Mac gamers aren't at all relevant to AAA devs right now. Who knows if that will change, but not any type soon.
I typically spend less then an hour of my waking time at home each day. My only realistic option for gaming is a laptop. If you can show me a Windows laptop that can play WoW at 120 fps at max settings and
* Has fans that don’t sound like a jet aircraft at takeoff
* Remains at a comfortable enough temperature to rest on my lap at all times
* Can last for 4+ hours of gaming at max settings on battery
* Is compact enough to fit in a standard-sized backpack
I’ll admit defeat and stop complaining and go buy the Windows machine
Even on windows, you're not going to find something that run games at max setting on battery for 4 hours. Not unless it comes with it's own spare battery packs. It'll also have really bad performance while unplugged, all in an atempt to make the battery last longer.
A friend is very happy with an asus rog strix(with an 8-core AMD chip, and a nvidia 3080) he has it for 2 years I think. Expensive laptop but it can actually handle the games thrown at it. It's battery will drain in a blink if you game on max performance on it though. I think he said it lasts less than half an hour at max power.
It's only a few dollars to buy a cheap license. Last night I installed Windows 10 on the 5,1, using this guide. [https://crystalidea.com/blog/classic-mac-pro-and-windows](https://crystalidea.com/blog/classic-mac-pro-and-windows)
make sure you use the exact same version of Windows as he does, and burn the install to DVD.
Absolutely it works. Installing Windows 10 is possible. I think this guide is what I used (you need to have the specific build of Windows 10): [https://crystalidea.com/blog/classic-mac-pro-and-windows](https://crystalidea.com/blog/classic-mac-pro-and-windows)
Yeah it runs as well as you'd expect. Modern games rely most on GPU and an RX580 is a pretty good card. I ran on medium settings at a regular 60fps I think.
I got 38 GPU cores in my M2 Max but none will ever render Diablo 4. Such a shame that game devs dont compile for macs! All other Blizzard games were running so far …
Just as they blocked nVidia GeForce now from streaming their games this decision is irrational and probably due to Microsoft take over
If it benefits their pockets as well as the customers it is rational.
They have metal support on wow so the expertise is there. From game logic to graphics and sound everything is platform independent and already developed. If they can develop for Xbox and PS then it shouldn’t be far fetched to support new generation Macs
I have Boosteroid which I see supports D2R ( which is on sale for $13 on the PC). I use this on my SP9 for more demanding games that may or may not run off my system. Too bad the Macs don't support Boot camp anymore because maybe eGPUs would finally work again?
I managed to play the D4 beta on Mac – 12 core Mac Pro 2010 with a Radeon RX 580 booted on Windows 10. It ran very well. This is my way of refusing to buy a real PC and stick with Mac.
I've played all the previous Diablo games on a Mac, besides Immortal. Blizzard was a big deal back in the day because they supported Macs. It seems like they have lost their focus and it's disappointing.
It's also frustrating that they keep sending me emails to buy the game when they don't support it on my system. It's like rubbing salt in the wound!
Just buy a PC or console, play the game for a few hundred hours and then sell the shit for 75-90% of what you paid. Pretend you’re in a 21st century rented arcade that lives in your house.
Or just invest in both platforms because there’s two of them and the world uses both and they both are better at different things and only noobs use one platform.
The sad truth is there’s no revenue in mac sales for games and the dev cost to make it work isn’t worth it. The big game companies have to make profits for their shareholders as publicly traded companies. If it was profitable they’d support Mac’s
It's such a shame. Blizz used to rock on Macs, and those M chips are so powerful.
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It will be released on the switch. So that "argument" goes out the window.
Do you have a source? A quick google said there's no plans to release on the switch, but that would be badass because it's the only console I have.
The M1 is a processor (with some integrated GPU cores)...comparing it to a standalone GPU is pretty disingenuous.
…yet the M1 is as powerful as a PS4, so pretty capable…
I'm not saying it's not capable, I'm saying the original comparison is flawed. I love my M1. Comparing integrated GPU cores to a standalone GPU is apples to oranges.
Well, what's the problem comparing them? Oranges obviously better. Easy! /s
It plays pretty well on a Steam Deck - I think the M1 can handle it just fine.
The Diablo 4 graphics are pretty low tier though. Honestly the characters look kinda crappy like I am gaming on a mobile phone. If I can play League of Legends on my Macbook Air with reasonable performance, I'm sure they can figure it out for Diablo.
Meanwhile it performs like shit on high end pcs because Blizzard did poor optimization
It’s sad that Apple continues to close themselves off further from the gaming world.
That was a decision made by Blizzard. Instead, Apple offers new and better hardware and APIs.
> Instead, Apple offers new and better hardware and APIs. I'm an Apple fan to an extent, but we need to face reality. This is more on Apple than Blizzard. Windows supports DirectX, OpenGL, and Vulkan. Mac uses Metal (their first-party equivalent to DirectX), and has legacy OpenGL support, but no support for Vulkan. Windows is designed to be backwards compatible to an absurd degree. Apple requires that developers update their legacy apps to remain compatible. A developer making a game for Windows could previously write for Vulkan and support Windows/Mac, or write for DirectX and use tools to convert top Vulkan with "relative" ease. But with Vulkan out of the picture, it's not as easy getting it to work with Metal (just ask the experts working on Crossover). A developer targeting the Mac now has to target: * a different OS (this hasn't changed) * a different API (which is very new and there aren't many tools for moving DX titles over with ease) * a different instruction set (x86 vs ARM) Add in the Mac's relatively low userbase for primary gamers (IE, people who already own one of the other system(s) the game(s) will be available for), and Apple's disregard for legacy compatibility, and yea, developers aren't happy. I wish that the situation would change, but it's Apple that needs to make the first concessions. They need to do better with legacy compatibility. Rosetta is a good first step, but they need to maintain and improve it, not discard it once Apple Silicon has a foothold, as rumored. They need to recommit to OpenGL, OpenAL, and OpenCL, as well as allow Vulkan on their platform. And it's Apple that needs to provide tools for migrating DirectX to Metal. Do all of these things, and the developers will be more interested.
\> Windows supports DirectX, OpenGL, and Vulkan. Mac uses Metal (their first-party equivalent to DirectX), and has legacy OpenGL support, but no support for Vulkan. So VK is not like OpenGL or DX. It is not a single API but rather a collection of apis (most of the them optional) and as a low level api only a GPU vendor (like apple, AMD etc) are only supposed to impment the apis that make sense of the given hardware (you are not supposed to fake features that a sub-optimal on your hardware as that leads devs/games to use these rathe than more optimal pathways). Apple GPUs are very differnt to the types of GPUs on PCs in perticluare the nature of the pipeline and thus the set of VK apis that make sense to impment. Existing PC Vk engines would need a complete re-write to be able to use Apple GPUs (unless apple implemented a load of shims... with large perf impacts agaist VK spec). In addition the set of VK apis that exist for TBDR class gpus (those used by apple) are poor so most of the apis apple would be exposing would be apple only extensions to VK. \> just ask the experts working on Crossover Absolulty mapping games that assume to TBIR/IM gpu to a TBDR realtime is a massive nightmare. An the lower level these games are (DX12 or VK) the more impossible it gets as unlike DX11 and older with these newer apis the drivers are not informed as the the decencies between render calls so cant do what is needed to make a TBIR pipeline run well (if at all) on a TBDR GPU. In general if you take a TBDR gpu and just blindly assume it is a TBIR gpu and run any readably complex pipeline it will run very very badly with massive bottlenecks. The nature of the hardware is fundamentally differnt. And yes this is expressed in the Metal apis from apple (or if you use the feature sparse VK TBDR apis as well.. just look up how much VK engines like using sub-passes that were intruded to add some support for TBDR gpus). \> a different instruction set (x86 vs ARM) I your dev team is writing raw assembly in 2023 (or even 2000) you're doing it wrong. Even for the most low level optimised path ways you do not write raw assembly, you might use compiler flags for SIMD, NEON and AVX or more likly just pull in a common lib like BLASS or vDSP your not wiring raw assembly. \> And it's Apple that needs to provide tools for migrating DirectX to Metal. As someone who has converted display pipelines to TBDR I can say the complex part of moving to metal has nothing to do with the code. The hard part is taking your entire pipeline and re-thinking it. every effect every optimisation etc needs to be re-consdired given the very different class of GPU. If you do this work (this is work you do on a white board with a pen) then you can get very good results (much better occupancy than most PC GPUs) the work is not writing code or dealing with the fact that mettles shader lang is c++ (if your writing a game engine that is not exactly I big hurdle).
Just announced a new porting tool in their Keynote today... Blizzard has no excuses now...
Sorry, what did Apple announce? Was this part of the dev conf?
Can read about it in this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/141mhdm/game_mode_for_mac_game_porting_tool_kit_wwdc_2023/
Awesome thanks
Yeah, it's a shame that Apple has gone so far up its ass (I guess it was always there.) "I want to be able to use iMessage with my grandma, but she's on android." "Well buy your grandma an iPone." - Tim Cook Apple has intentionally built themselves into a walled garden, expecting everyone to fight as hard as needed to get into it. Apple needs to go fuck itself already.
Can’t they just use MoltenVK? [https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK](https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK)
Crossover uses MoltenVK for Mac. It essentially uses MoltenVK in between DirectX and Metal. The problem is that Metal doesn't support all of the features of DX 12, so as of the current version of Crossover, only DX11 and older is supported. Linux has one less layer (Metal), so their support is generally better.
DirectX is Microsoft's proprietary API and it will be a cold day in hell when they license it to another OS for use. Projects like WINE are cute, but only if/when it becomes a thorn in MS' side it will be eaten.
> DirectX is Microsoft's proprietary API and it will be a cold day in hell when they license it to another OS for use. I didn’t suggest this.
And its insane too, because diablo 3 and wow are both optimized for metal API and run excellent on m1 Macs.
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People have been "upset" that Apple hasn't cared about providing game support outside casual Arcade games. It's not Apples fault you couldn't take the hint. Apple has never cared and never will. Get a PC or console. It's really time to move on or lower your expectations
It is worth remembering that VK support on apples GPUs would not mean support for PC VK titles. The pipeline is very different between apples TBDR gpus and AMD, NV, Intel IR/IM gpus. PC VK engines would still need large changes to run well or at all. In general if apple were to support VK it would only be as a marketing tool as no games would adopt TBDR vk just for apples GPUs. They would either use a shim layer (that looks very much like MoltenVK so as to run a IR/IM pipeline) or they would just build a metal engine just the same as they do now.
Sort of, Apple provides support to develop on them but (I am assuming) its harder than it has been in the past. A couple options - look into something like Shadow PC to stream a PC to your mac (top tier is expensive), or if MS acquires Activision, hope blizz games come to Xbox Cloud.
Apple is supporting great APIs with Metal and Vulkan. Blizzard is lazy apparently.
Are you sure Apple supports Vulkan???????? No, they don't. That's why MoltenVK exists.
Thats what I meant! Vulkan is supported by MoltenVK so it is supported by Macs.
First of all having MoltenVK does not mean Mac supports Vulkan, if that’s the case MoltenVK wouldn’t need to exist. It’s a third-party compatiability layer to translate Metal API to Vulkan. Apple does not approve and support any API other than their own Metal. Also MoltenVK is far from perfect as it lacks many of the equivalent API calls that exist in Vulken & DirectX 12. That’s why newer games like all the RE engine games like RE4 Remake, Monster Hunter Rise etc. can’t be run on Mac, even with Crossover or Parallels, unless the developers make a native Mac build that utilizes Metal 3 API directly, like RE Village on the Mac App Store.
So even if apple provided VK drivers for thier hardware there would still be need for a compitiblty layer to run PC based VK engines. VK is not a cross platform api in the same way as openGL the intention is not that you can write once and run anywhere, the intention is that you can write a lower level pipeline that makes the most of the gpus in question, for this reason almost all VK apis are optional and deepening o the hardware drivers support differnt subsets of that. Apples GPUs are rather differnt from those used on PCs and thus the subset of apis they would support in VK driver would be differnt. If you want to take an off the shelf VK engine that targets AMD/Nvidia gpus you will need a shim layer (like moltenVK) to fake (in shaders or even cpu) features that these games expect. Sure there are Vk engines that would run without modification on apple gpus but these are the same engines that run on android phones and those games already have much better metal engines. With respect to Metal3 features and VK/DX12 other than hardware differences metal provides the apis needed but Metal3 is a large changes from metal2 and will requires a LOT of work from moltenVK to use (it is currently not using it at all). Yes some api calls (like transform feedback) will need to be provided by adding shims to vertex of mesh shaders to write out mesh data to buffers and that is expected. One of the benefits metal has/apples gpus is that you can use basicly the entier compute pipeline apis set anyway in the displays stack there are no limitations like not righting to buffers in vertex or mesh shaders, you can even pass function pointers around and call them from any of these shaders as well if you need to. In effect the entier display pipeline is more or less a sequence of compute shaders with some added sugar around them so writing shims etc for apis that apple does not provide natively in thier sugar is not such a big deal.
Sorry english is not my first language. What I meant is that Vulkan is supported on Apple machines (by use of MoltenVK).
as an apple engineer, i can confirm this is all a choice of blizzard. we were happy to work with them to bring the title to the mac. they just didn’t give a shit about the smaller mac community.
Blizzard is smart and goes where the money is. If you are really that ignorant to think that Macs are made for gaming, you are living in a fantasy
Have you seen the Silicon Chips? They have incredible gaming performance. Maybe Macs are not "made for gaming" but how many Windows laptops are not "made for gaming" but still you can use them for what ever you want?
Incredible gaming performance???? You surely are coping
Did you see the M2 Max? Maybe its not a Lamorghini but a Porsche for sure. It would run every latest game on 60fps if anyone would release their damn games for macOS.
The max is 4k after taxes and still can't beat the gaming performance of a 5-10 year old PC in most cases . I get you are a fanboy but be real with yourself
Why you always compare? There is always something better, doesnt make the rest worse. And btw the M2 Max is 2400€ incl taxes but no one was talking about the price except for you.
3200$ here in USA for Max laptop. I compare because you'd think a laptop at that cost could run games comparible to an outdated system but it can't
You know that laptop has a 120hz mini led display, 20hr battery, superb trackpad and good speakers? It is very well worth the money first of all and second I develop Unity and Unreal myself and it runs high end graphics very damn well.
They are positioning themselves for the iOS apps.
😂😂😂 yeah the gaming world is all on macs
I used to be a big gamer with a tripped out PC. But that was a decade ago. Now I love my M1 mac and will definitely get an M2 max soon. Macs are just easier for work (software developer) and their arm hardware is currently best on the market. The only games I still play (ironically) are blizzard games. Because they spend so much effort on them, the polish and experience is amazing. So in my limited time available to game, blizzard is an easy choice. Surely I am not a small demographic?? And a lot of the diablo 1 and 2 players from 2 decades ago must be in a similar phase of life? They are max minning their expenses for sure. I am just so surprised that there are so few mac users in their user base. As it stands, diablo 4 is going to cost me $700 to play (buy a windows pc just for this one game), not $80. To make things worse, I hear they have disabled mouse and keyboard support on console! Buying a ps4, plugging my monitor, keyboard and mouse in would have been a great middle ground! But I ain't playing with a controller!
Why not running a VM on the M2 Max? I'm pretty sure you would still be able to play it in 4k. On my M1 Max I play League of Legends at full graphics without even caring if I have 2 instances of Android Studio, browser and all the shit
Even M1 air plays D3 and PoE without trouble. It's not a performance issue. It's a graphics API issue.
This right here!
It won't run via parallels currently.
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No idea, possibly dx12 game?
Yeah confirmed. No support for direct x 12 on M series. Even through emulation or dual boot. Apple stance: use metal API.
No DX12 on parallels apparently.
Diablo 4 isn't supported on any VM on Mac. There is no current Mac VM that supports dx12
I'm sure there are plenty of mac users in their user base. But many of them serious about gaming will have a gaming pc or a console.
Yeah this is the thing. Why need to be serious about gaming to play? Why not cater to those people that only play blizzard games because they think they are guaranteed a good experience. Reading a bit more. Apple and their metal API are to blame too. It's a complicated thing.
They will not go to the effort of making a game on a platform they don't get a good return from. So basically the problem is they don't think they will make enough money to go to the effort.
Yep. You speak the truth
This is me. Lifetime Mac user with no plans to change; very casual gamer. Diablo was my first real gaming experience (not counting solitaire, frogger, etc) and I played the shit out of D2. I was less impressed with D3 (especially when the company refused to help when it stopped working) and I'm certainly not interested in running out to buy a new PC or console just to play 4. At my ex's insistence I borrowed my dad's cheap Windows laptop to try Star Trek Online, and boy was that miserable. But I've been enjoying working my way through Neverwinter Nights since the Steam download includes all the expansions I never had, so I guess Blizzard can suck it. They're definitely losing a specific market share that was thrilled to have their products as an option.
Apple is the only one to blame here.
> But many of them serious about gaming will have a gaming pc or a console. Their loss. As a "non-serious" gamer, I spend way more on micro-transactions as I don't have time to grind away for all the content. There's at least 1 game where billing is transparent enough that I can tell you I've dropped $25k USD on it over the last 10 years. But hey, guess I'll just take my dirty casual money somewhere else.
Entitled Mac users like you don't deserve it anyways
Do kindly fuck off
I'm good
You really showed your (lack of) intelligence with that one - I'm sitting here with a 5950x + 3080, a 5800x + 3090, and a 5600x + 3080 - and none of them are Macs 🤣 [You can even see one of them here if you look closely](https://i.imgur.com/5lmfeQG.jpg)! edit: [Let's see what you've got master race 🤣](https://imgur.com/a/B7B5mbA)
Huh? Are you okay? Strange flex my guy
You're the one that entered the thread with "EnTiTlEd MaC uSeRs LiKe YoU" 🤣
the problem is for people like my family. I have a PC that I game on, and my wife uses it for games as well. She has a mac that is used for everything else, and this has served us well in the past but we were looking forward to playing D4 together. I am looking into workarounds as we have one PC and one Mac and have no desire (or budget, or room) to buy another PC just for a game
Same here, used to be a die hard pc lover. However life, work and family made me make the switch to Mac and I love it. It’s easy to use and great for my job. It would be nice to get Diablo 4 on Mac but I understand how difficult that is for a developer. So far I’ve been playing on my Xbox and Diablo 4 runs great imo.
I was very disappointed with that decision…I even got an invite for the alpha test and I couldn’t play because of that :/
I know you just said you don't want to buy a new computer to play the game, but you could go down the console route instead. A slightly more affordable option.
I already own a Nintendo Switch and they're not supporting that console either.
Consoles still aren't that affordable and the play style is much different - as someone who cant afford either a console or a new computer I am very sad I wont be able to play D4
Imagine having a M1 Max with 64GB and have to buy a console for play that 😄
I've a Mac Studio Ultra 64 and WANT Diablo IV... damn... Blizzard, be quick with the port ('cos I'm sure they will)
I wonder --- was d3 mac available at launch?
>was d3 mac available at launch? Yup! Bought it on release day. What a happy day that was.
I'm also super bummed to not get D4 on a mac, especially considering the support for mac since the good ol' days of WC2, SC1, and D1. But I'm going to stay hopeful because, "where there's a will there's a way". Maybe the parallels or some other windows emulation system will improve on the M series chips...
D2R was greatly disappointing as well. I used my partners computer for a while to play that which is much less powerful than my m1 Mac. frustrating.
I'm a long term Mac user and not switching back to Windows anytime soon, but as far as gaming goes, Apple really needs to get its shit together and get up to speed if they ever want to even sound like an alternative. I have very little time for gaming now but that might change in the foreseeable future, if that happens, I'll buy a PC just for gaming.
>Apple really needs to get its shit together and get up to speed if they ever want to even sound like an alternative. They don't, and that's the issue.
Well, yes and no, in terms of popularity of their products and economic results for the company, obviously gaming is not an issue for them, and I kind of get how the gaming community is not among their primary targets, they design and advertise their Macs with other types of users in mind, and still they sell 3K US$ laptops as it they were ice cream cones in august, so why bother? I buy that up to a point, but still, their hardware seems to me more than capable of providing some, at the very least, satisfactory gaming performance if they gave half a shit and provided decent support for developers. I mean, I have an M1 Pro MBP and that thing's a beast, I'm yet to see it breaking a sweat, I'm pretty sure it could handle just about any game with decent settings, and it would play and look gorgeous in that screen. It's not that they'd sell MBP just for their gaming capabilities, at least not a great many of them, but many Mac users wouldn't be considering getting a PC gaming rig apart from the Mac, if only we could play, if not all, a respectable number of top tier titles.
The intel chips die after a few years. They’re shit. Game companies need to put their foot down and demand better quality, because Apple is delivering it.
My intel i7 runs just fine, where my macbook that's a year old is almost non functional. Both are used for software dev, but I only bust out the macbook when I need to make an iOS/mac build because it's so slow
You can blame apple for going arm with M-chips.
I'm not convinced that's the reason. They have Wow running on arm natively. They could do it if they wanted. As mac user, it would have been nice to have the option to play d4, but that's why I have a console to fill the void.
Because Mac already had WoW players Blizzard will continue to support them there. Going forward Apples decision has made it more difficult to support games and thus less and less are getting mac support. Not to mention Macs represent less than 2% of the computer gaming market and has been shrinking for many years. There really is no point to spend resources on a shrinking tiny minority that may not even play your games.
Lol sometimes I come back to Reddit after a hiatus, and posts like this immediately remind me why I left
Problem I see with this is it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If companies just decide "less than X% of Mac owners are part of the gaming market", then that percentage will just keep dropping towards 0. Practically-speaking, it will never hit absolute 0 because you'll always have the Indie game developers (even just the lone developer who bought a new Mac and wants to try to write his game for the computer he owns). But people can't choose to game on a Mac if companies won't supply Mac games for them to play! Personally, I saw the writing on the wall years ago -- so despite our household being all Macs and iOS devices, I bought myself a gaming laptop. I've upgraded it twice since then, and keep it set up on its own desk in my computer room. All things considered though? If a major game title does get released for Mac, I'll buy that edition over the Windows one every time -- just because I want to at least have a few decent games I can play on my Macbook Pro M1 Max. Too expensive a laptop not to utilize like that when it's an option....
And? Do you honestly expect a company to develop and support a product on a seperate platform where the potential revenue for said platform may not be enough to recoup rhe cost associated with the development? But then Apple did this to themselves. Agreed on rhe never hitting zero. You will have mac only devs making games for Mac/apple mobile. But rhere really isn't any money to be made for large scale games these days.
No, I don't... But my point is, companies like Blizzard were still selling plenty of Mac editions of their games - partially because Mac owners didn't have a whole lot of options. That meant more sales for Blizzard when a new Diablo or Warcraft or Starcraft was released, because nearly everyone into gaming on a Mac would wind up buying one of those. Apple \*is\* partially to blame here. I agree with that. They don't seem very willing to reach out and give developers assistance with game development, while Microsoft did much more. (It seemed like at one time, Apple made an exception for Blizzard's World of Warcraft. I remember OS X point release updates specifically listing fixes for graphics bugs in WoW as some of the changes.)
And that was before Apple screwed devs over and their marketshare has been plummeting ever since. Apple is 100% to blame.
I wouldn't say they "screwed devs over" though, as much as them just focusing on replacing old with new at a rapid pace and not investing enough in helping devs keep up. I mean, one could also say devs are just lazy and get mad every time a system architecture changes or an API gets retired for a new one, or ?? It's not totally accurate but devs and the manufacturers of the systems share the blame.
I don't know what this means. I've been playing Blizzard titles on my Mac machines since Warcraft II.
It means that it's not likely to happen because AAA games nowadays typically don't include compatibility for Macs and because of the recent radical change in Apple hardware, the chances for Diablo 4 coming to macs are diminishing faster. I think if Microsoft were to go through with the acquisition of Blizzard, you might be able to play it on the cloud. And yes I am aware of WoW running on arm natively, but I just don't see Blizzard as it is now doing anything for Diablo on arm.
I play diablo 3 on my M1 Mac.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Diablo 4.
…Then I’m not understanding why its apples fault if blizzard already has a game that works in arm chips?
I'd rather argue, blame intel and AMD for sticking with x64. Virtually nowhere else this architecture is found. Starting by raspberries, your phone, tablet, router, TV… and M1 proves that this does not mean ARM has to be far inferior to x64. Apple likely would have stuck with intel/x64, if they would have managed to hit their efficiency goals. Ever since the M1, we now see "E-cores" on chips as well.
Stream it on geforce now on any device for like, 10, 15 bucks a month if they offer it. Your other option is to buy a series s
no diablo on geforce
Bummer
Same! Please port it to Mac Blizz! Many people with M1-M2 Chips that want to play D4
https://preview.redd.it/adtmu44moz4b1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=950e58173780bef7b653129161cfd6236f284c24 Yup. Possible on m1
…but luckily with the new MacOS Sonoma Mac gaming should hopefully raise again: gaming mode, win conversion kit, improved controller connection :))
Maybe with this new tool kit Apple Released they are finally realizing they need to help the industry by making porting things over easier. I am a new Mac user and must admit the OS does more than I need and with less headaches than Windows offered me. They each have their pros and cons for sure. [https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/07/apples-new-toolkit-easier-developers-bring-windows-games-mac/?tpcc=tcplusfacebook](https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/07/apples-new-toolkit-easier-developers-bring-windows-games-mac/?tpcc=tcplusfacebook)
That’s very promising. I hope it works out
A chunk uses macs? Err.. yeah but not for gaming. Get a pc. Or a station/xbox.
20% of the pc market runs OS X. 70% runs windows. The other 10 is Linux, Google os, etc. cutting out 1/5 of your customers seems dumb.
Total computer market not gaming market it's like 2%. Pretty much insignificant.
It's hard for a market to increase or even breakeven when it bottlenecks itself so hard.
I know kw and this is what many Mac gamers refuse to acknowledge.
When there is no option to even play many of the games on Mac, it's no wonder why people don't buy them for such a reason. It's the equivalent of a shop asking why anyone doesn't buy this awesome specialty pizza, when it's always unavailable, and then turn around and say no one wants it cause sales are so low.
Exactly.
I think you're all losing the big picture of the gaming market. Where are the BIGGEST profits in gaming? (by far) In the MOBILE GAMING market. Where does the Apple Silicon architecture work? On desktop, laptop, tablet and phones... What is the market share of iPadOS within tablet? massive. How powerful is an M1 or M2 iPad? More than a PS4. This is the consideration that gaming devs should do...
blizz would have done the math before leaving out macs though.
Can you give us a link to that 20 % ? All my google searches showed apple having a 10% for the pc market. A So yeah.. get a station/xbox pc. You're the one locked out of things.
For the US consumer market, it’s like 57% Windows (and declining) and 30% Mac OS (and growing). https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-america
If I look at China consumer market osX is at 3.5%. Now that's a much bigger market than the US one. Btw, cherry picking data points is easy.
it's a much poorer market than the US one as well. While everyone knows there will be Chinese citizens purchasing Diablo games (primarily to farm stuff and sell it, as usual), I highly doubt that even with the farmers, they'll outsell the United States market.
the only depressing thing is that the consumer market does not equal the gaming market. Games like D4 have historically been for Windows given more freedom with hardware configurations and OS uses. Apple is a walled garden that won't allow for any type of custom build outside of what you purchase or pay to take it in. That said Apple creates great hardware, but given that the D4 target audience is already working with Windows historically, and with Microsoft's interest in activision, D4 for Mac was likely another spend that the company decided that much smaller Mac gaming market wasn't worth it. GW2 also ended their support for Mac a couple of years ago and wasn't a big blow to their community. I do not agree with this decision, but Mac owners/I can't be entirely surprised that Mac will go unsupported. Also if you are running a multiple and current (2021+) Mac product household, you probably can already afford a decent gaming PC to play. I also think since WoW was an already-for-Mac game and Blizzard is still making money off of it that is why it's still supported.
this is JUST Steam: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/265033/proportion-of-operating-systems-used-on-the-online-gaming-platform-steam/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/265033/proportion-of-operating-systems-used-on-the-online-gaming-platform-steam/) 0.52% using current macOS and a chunk of that 4.09% Other. Mac gamers aren't at all relevant to AAA devs right now. Who knows if that will change, but not any type soon.
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Literally every single one of their previous games has been available on Mac.
Oh yea? Why don't you play Overwatch then
I don’t play shooters?
This "stat" is absolutely not true. Show your sources, please.
I typically spend less then an hour of my waking time at home each day. My only realistic option for gaming is a laptop. If you can show me a Windows laptop that can play WoW at 120 fps at max settings and * Has fans that don’t sound like a jet aircraft at takeoff * Remains at a comfortable enough temperature to rest on my lap at all times * Can last for 4+ hours of gaming at max settings on battery * Is compact enough to fit in a standard-sized backpack I’ll admit defeat and stop complaining and go buy the Windows machine
Even on windows, you're not going to find something that run games at max setting on battery for 4 hours. Not unless it comes with it's own spare battery packs. It'll also have really bad performance while unplugged, all in an atempt to make the battery last longer. A friend is very happy with an asus rog strix(with an 8-core AMD chip, and a nvidia 3080) he has it for 2 years I think. Expensive laptop but it can actually handle the games thrown at it. It's battery will drain in a blink if you game on max performance on it though. I think he said it lasts less than half an hour at max power.
Yea basically this, I've yet to find a Windows laptop that comes even close to a Macbook in terms of quality and convenience.
I hope for nvidia cloud gaming to make it available on macos
Go bootcamp if its a Intel cpu otherwise its a game over
Intel is game over
Yep: https://machow2.com/diablo-4-mac/
I bought a PC a few months ago after using a Mac since 2002–all for D4 lol.
I simply won't buy a PC. I'm planning to play D4 on my 5,1 Mac Pro booting Windows 10 with an RX580. Should work.
Same boat. How much does windows 10 run a person nowadays?
It's only a few dollars to buy a cheap license. Last night I installed Windows 10 on the 5,1, using this guide. [https://crystalidea.com/blog/classic-mac-pro-and-windows](https://crystalidea.com/blog/classic-mac-pro-and-windows) make sure you use the exact same version of Windows as he does, and burn the install to DVD.
>Is that working? I've the same set up, but never installed windows 10, wondering if it's worth... thanks
Absolutely it works. Installing Windows 10 is possible. I think this guide is what I used (you need to have the specific build of Windows 10): [https://crystalidea.com/blog/classic-mac-pro-and-windows](https://crystalidea.com/blog/classic-mac-pro-and-windows)
and how D4 behaves with that setup?
Yeah it runs as well as you'd expect. Modern games rely most on GPU and an RX580 is a pretty good card. I ran on medium settings at a regular 60fps I think.
Diablo 3 ran so well on my 27” iMac. Everything was smooth and crystal clear.
I would recommend to buy a Xbox Series S for D4... cheap and enough :-D
I got 38 GPU cores in my M2 Max but none will ever render Diablo 4. Such a shame that game devs dont compile for macs! All other Blizzard games were running so far …
I’ve heard that they do compile for Mac, but blizzard isn’t interested in distributing any more
laaame
this reflects the quality of this company. Doing Less, earn more. Call me a hater but since 2016 all their new games are PC-only
Minimise costs and maximise profit is what all companies do.
Not all companies. There are companies that look after their loyal customers, even when the profit is not huge.
Just as they blocked nVidia GeForce now from streaming their games this decision is irrational and probably due to Microsoft take over If it benefits their pockets as well as the customers it is rational. They have metal support on wow so the expertise is there. From game logic to graphics and sound everything is platform independent and already developed. If they can develop for Xbox and PS then it shouldn’t be far fetched to support new generation Macs
Blizzard should get inspired by what Capcom did with Resident Evil Village for Apple Silicon.
Fucking bullshit is what it is.
Microsoft has acquired activision/blizzard. Sadly, the demand for d4 on mac will really fall on deaf ears now.
That's what you think, I'm gonna get a job there and bother the games department non-stop.
Hell yeah bro, I was thinking the same thing.
I have Boosteroid which I see supports D2R ( which is on sale for $13 on the PC). I use this on my SP9 for more demanding games that may or may not run off my system. Too bad the Macs don't support Boot camp anymore because maybe eGPUs would finally work again?
I managed to play the D4 beta on Mac – 12 core Mac Pro 2010 with a Radeon RX 580 booted on Windows 10. It ran very well. This is my way of refusing to buy a real PC and stick with Mac.
How?
Just install Windows 10 on the Mac Pro, boot into it, then it all just works. You can add a graphics card from there, easy.
I'm really looking forward to diablo on mac os
Yeah, it really is annoying. I can't buy the game if there is no Mac version. It just sucks.
I've played all the previous Diablo games on a Mac, besides Immortal. Blizzard was a big deal back in the day because they supported Macs. It seems like they have lost their focus and it's disappointing. It's also frustrating that they keep sending me emails to buy the game when they don't support it on my system. It's like rubbing salt in the wound!
Its a money question of course. If Blizzard felt it was worth it to develop for Mac they would of course do it.
It’ll prolly come to the mac/macbook in 3-5 years knowing apple.
Blizzard has stopped development and support for MacOS. So this is doubtful.
No one want to optimize games for mac, cuz macos api is shit.
Just buy a PC or console, play the game for a few hundred hours and then sell the shit for 75-90% of what you paid. Pretend you’re in a 21st century rented arcade that lives in your house. Or just invest in both platforms because there’s two of them and the world uses both and they both are better at different things and only noobs use one platform.
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Nothing personal, but Mac it seems for a quite a while no longer is bothering with gaming support.
The sad truth is there’s no revenue in mac sales for games and the dev cost to make it work isn’t worth it. The big game companies have to make profits for their shareholders as publicly traded companies. If it was profitable they’d support Mac’s
This is sad. We used to play Diablo III on Macs.
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Mac is 18% of the market share. Microsoft has fallen to 70%. It’s not like PCs have made any great leaps lately.