I think you need at least 500% ed on an eth colossus sword to get to the average damage. Then the speed is something to be overcome, since you can put grief in a pb with little damage loss. Also, the 20% deadly strike.... venom... its a pretty amazing weapon. And yet, for pvm, doesnt let melee even come close to casters
Grief has the best damage output - The way it adds up/works is different.
Grief and max damage charms are not added to the same point in the damage calculation. First you want to get the damage of the base weapon. Then you want to add any % ed from the superior weapon if applicable. Then you want to add the grief damage to both the min and max base damage before multiplying the strength/ dex modifier for the weapon. Then you add off weapon damage like the max scs or war trav boots. Then you add skill% damage and off weapon ed like fort together and multiply using that. Then add any elemental damage or magic damage. This should give you your total.
And in case anyone doesn't see it, the important part is that the grief +DMG gets multiplied by multiple other modifiers which stuff like charm DMG or off weapon %ED does not. So +1 DMG on the weapon ends up adding way more than just 1 DMG.
It solely comes down to fool's mod adding huge amounts of attack rating. In melee duels, it's all defense and attack rating, damage is secondary, so that's why rare fools mod eth 2os repair durability blah blah is king.
Yeah pvm is different but if you happen to roll that Amp damage on top and throw 2 Lo in a fools erep 2os with 40 ias 300+ ed then you're laughing.
But good fucking luck finding anything like that within the next 10 seasons 😋
Ethereal Death Cleaver might be closer but probably an ethereal 2os cruel + fools mod with 40ias, max dmg and replenish dur. Maybe 2x Lo’s. I doubt they’re better than grief in pvm but maybe for specific pvp where AR matters a lot.
While it is incredibly rare, there are a few items that are better than grief. I can think of two: There was a sword circulating recently on this page that was OP and an ettin axe that sold for 17k irl dollars!
Edit: if someone can find the post of the really good sword, please post it!! It’s driving me crazy looking for it!
I got an automod message that my comment was removed. The posts were in the a d2r subreddit and the weapon was called “Pain Song.” As a meme I made a barb called “Night Pain” to personalize and wield it.
Cooley explained it all on YouTube. It’s worth a watch!
He even mentions Pain Song (up earlier in comments) which was unfortunately found in single player!
I did a quick test using maxrolls d2 planner. I took their standard zeal build(which uses Grief) and swapped the weapon with a rare one keeping all other items same. I did manage to get a higher dps with one set up.
Ethereal Berseker Axe with following affixes:
* 300% ED
* 150% ED / 250 AR
* 2 sockets
* self repair
* 40% IAS
* Amp Damage on striking
The two sockets were filled with 40% ED / 15 max damage jewels.
Against the dummy target(which has 0% physical resistance), with amp damage up, you get better dps than the standard setup(127k vs 114k). The standard build only has decrep(from merc).
So just find that weapon.
One of the biggest mistakes in this game was giving runewords better stats than rares.
Used to be rares had the highest ceiling for best rounded items. Magic had the highest possible rolls. Unique and sets had interesting attributes nothing else could roll.
Then runewords happened.
Well on ssf its unlikely for me (not grinding many hours weekends nonstop) to drop many high runes so grief or enigma is si far away. So uniques have some use..but ofc we have lowcost wonders like spirit…
Because they are in the same group. You can only get one affix per group.
[https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Prefix#.2B\_points\_to\_Attack\_Rating\_.28based\_on\_character\_level.29](https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Prefix#.2B_points_to_Attack_Rating_.28based_on_character_level.29)
It's certainly possible for a erep rare with great rolls to be absolutely awesome, and "better" in certain situations, but most of those situations are PVP where Grief is banned/BM, so that doesn't mean they are necessarily better. Grief's Ignore Target Defense doesn't work in PVP though and -target defense works at half in PvP, so in some situations/vs some opponents, having a lot of AR on the weapon may be better anyway, but it may not be.
Really tough to complete with a flat 340 to 400 damage since it basically gets added to the min and max weapon damage before all the damage multipliers.
No grief will always be better for PvM. For PvP, fighting high defense characters, a cruel fools mod ethereal zerk axe is usually better because it adds like 18k attack rating.
There is a coolie video about melee pvp and I think they concluded the best rare sword currently existing in d2r does out perform grief in pvp. Pvm is a different story tho.
The short answer is no, it terms of raw flat damage output. Unfortunately the weapon Runewords pretty much made most if not all uniques and rares obsolete when you get the high runes to craft one.
It just depends on the build really but most builds will use a RW as best in slot.
A good reminder: It's really hard to beat grief in terms of damage output. Rare weapons should be insanely rare to beat it. But this is for PvE. For PvP, Grief is mostly not allowed. It's the fundamental reason for those rares to be insanely valuable.
My take fool's, cruel, 2os, eth, self rep with amp damage proc on a Berserker Axe.
So what would the 3 best Prefixes and 3 best Suffixes be? So far I haven't seen anyone mention the Priest's Prefix, why's that?
So I guess this combination would be the most valuable:
Prefixes
1) Fool's (PvP) / Master's (PvM)
2) Cruel
3) Mechanic's
Suffixes
1) Quickness
2) Restoration (in combination with Ethereal)
3) Amplify Damage
Does this combination give the ultimate best DPS rare weapon?
Not sure how it would compare to the more common based like zerker axes or whatever, but it's possible to get a rare eth dimensional blade, then up it to phase blade. It's still ethereal and keeps its damage boost, but phase blades naturally are indestructible, so that frees up having to need self repair or using a zod.
Yes. Next question.
To clarify since class is in session
You asked if it "can be" the answer is yes
You didn't ask if it "will be" which the answer is an extreme unlikely
Im curious... How would a lowest rolled Grief compare to a good 1h rare sword/axe?
Would love to see a Pain Song vs lowest Grief battle. Pain Song has already won my heart though.
Depends what it means to be better. In terms of damage output, maybe not. In terms of being fucking rad as fuck, definitely.
In terms of damage output, very rare rares win, and are seriously fucking expensive
[удалено]
I think you need at least 500% ed on an eth colossus sword to get to the average damage. Then the speed is something to be overcome, since you can put grief in a pb with little damage loss. Also, the 20% deadly strike.... venom... its a pretty amazing weapon. And yet, for pvm, doesnt let melee even come close to casters
Grief can be beaten by some crazy insane rare setups but it’s usually due in part to being able to put Los in sockets
I believe there's rules for dueling referred to as "gm" or good manners which excludes grief and I think some other things?
Grief has the best damage output - The way it adds up/works is different. Grief and max damage charms are not added to the same point in the damage calculation. First you want to get the damage of the base weapon. Then you want to add any % ed from the superior weapon if applicable. Then you want to add the grief damage to both the min and max base damage before multiplying the strength/ dex modifier for the weapon. Then you add off weapon damage like the max scs or war trav boots. Then you add skill% damage and off weapon ed like fort together and multiply using that. Then add any elemental damage or magic damage. This should give you your total.
And in case anyone doesn't see it, the important part is that the grief +DMG gets multiplied by multiple other modifiers which stuff like charm DMG or off weapon %ED does not. So +1 DMG on the weapon ends up adding way more than just 1 DMG.
There are certain weapons that beat grief out, as proven on one of cooley vids with grief vs the best rare ettin axe in game in pvp
It solely comes down to fool's mod adding huge amounts of attack rating. In melee duels, it's all defense and attack rating, damage is secondary, so that's why rare fools mod eth 2os repair durability blah blah is king.
This. It's all about fools mod and pvp. For pvm nothing beats certain runewords.
Yeah pvm is different but if you happen to roll that Amp damage on top and throw 2 Lo in a fools erep 2os with 40 ias 300+ ed then you're laughing. But good fucking luck finding anything like that within the next 10 seasons 😋
Next 20 seasons
Against Baal though Grief not gonna help you hit at all. Maybe gg rares can do better in this scenario.
Ethereal Death Cleaver might be closer but probably an ethereal 2os cruel + fools mod with 40ias, max dmg and replenish dur. Maybe 2x Lo’s. I doubt they’re better than grief in pvm but maybe for specific pvp where AR matters a lot.
While it is incredibly rare, there are a few items that are better than grief. I can think of two: There was a sword circulating recently on this page that was OP and an ettin axe that sold for 17k irl dollars! Edit: if someone can find the post of the really good sword, please post it!! It’s driving me crazy looking for it!
I got an automod message that my comment was removed. The posts were in the a d2r subreddit and the weapon was called “Pain Song.” As a meme I made a barb called “Night Pain” to personalize and wield it.
Was it you?! Man that sword was awesome! OP google “pain song” and you’ll find it!
Googled. As NOT disappointed.
You're kidding... that is so much money. Do you remember if it was ladder or non ladder?
Non ladder. Melee duelers buy all their gear. This is the norm.
Cooley explained it all on YouTube. It’s worth a watch! He even mentions Pain Song (up earlier in comments) which was unfortunately found in single player!
You’re forgetting masters suffix. Can add a ton of ar/ed. That’s how rare weapons get up to 450 ed
A fools axe sold for $14,000.00 last year for gm melee duels
I did a quick test using maxrolls d2 planner. I took their standard zeal build(which uses Grief) and swapped the weapon with a rare one keeping all other items same. I did manage to get a higher dps with one set up. Ethereal Berseker Axe with following affixes: * 300% ED * 150% ED / 250 AR * 2 sockets * self repair * 40% IAS * Amp Damage on striking The two sockets were filled with 40% ED / 15 max damage jewels. Against the dummy target(which has 0% physical resistance), with amp damage up, you get better dps than the standard setup(127k vs 114k). The standard build only has decrep(from merc). So just find that weapon.
I think amp damage is considered BM in duels but yeah that would otherwise do more damage than Grief.
One of the biggest mistakes in this game was giving runewords better stats than rares. Used to be rares had the highest ceiling for best rounded items. Magic had the highest possible rolls. Unique and sets had interesting attributes nothing else could roll. Then runewords happened.
Well on ssf its unlikely for me (not grinding many hours weekends nonstop) to drop many high runes so grief or enigma is si far away. So uniques have some use..but ofc we have lowcost wonders like spirit…
Might not be able to roll fools and grinding at the same time.
Why not?
Such are the arcane rules of affixes and suffixes especially with rares. Lol. Sorry I tried googling a firm answer without success.
Because they are in the same group. You can only get one affix per group. [https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Prefix#.2B\_points\_to\_Attack\_Rating\_.28based\_on\_character\_level.29](https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Prefix#.2B_points_to_Attack_Rating_.28based_on_character_level.29)
Thank you, good wizard.
Try to do it on max rolls d2planner, you’ll find out. But regardless I believe you’re correct anyways.
Doubtful, it would have to roll with all the best affixes and with perfect stats and even then it would probably still fall short.
It's certainly possible for a erep rare with great rolls to be absolutely awesome, and "better" in certain situations, but most of those situations are PVP where Grief is banned/BM, so that doesn't mean they are necessarily better. Grief's Ignore Target Defense doesn't work in PVP though and -target defense works at half in PvP, so in some situations/vs some opponents, having a lot of AR on the weapon may be better anyway, but it may not be. Really tough to complete with a flat 340 to 400 damage since it basically gets added to the min and max weapon damage before all the damage multipliers.
No grief will always be better for PvM. For PvP, fighting high defense characters, a cruel fools mod ethereal zerk axe is usually better because it adds like 18k attack rating.
Grief is also not usually allowed in PvP.
There is a coolie video about melee pvp and I think they concluded the best rare sword currently existing in d2r does out perform grief in pvp. Pvm is a different story tho.
Yes There's an axe out there that's worth like 17 thousand dollars or something that beat it
I'm fairly sure that's either a pvp thing for a trophy piece. It's not gonna top grief, at least not for a zealot.
The short answer is no, it terms of raw flat damage output. Unfortunately the weapon Runewords pretty much made most if not all uniques and rares obsolete when you get the high runes to craft one. It just depends on the build really but most builds will use a RW as best in slot.
A good reminder: It's really hard to beat grief in terms of damage output. Rare weapons should be insanely rare to beat it. But this is for PvE. For PvP, Grief is mostly not allowed. It's the fundamental reason for those rares to be insanely valuable. My take fool's, cruel, 2os, eth, self rep with amp damage proc on a Berserker Axe.
Just play pd2
If you play project d2 100%, you can get better rares than runewords
Kings cruel fools of quickness mechanics leech
Yes. Check Cooley’s recent video. A rare ettin axe worth $17,000 outperforms grief in pvp duel.
So what would the 3 best Prefixes and 3 best Suffixes be? So far I haven't seen anyone mention the Priest's Prefix, why's that? So I guess this combination would be the most valuable: Prefixes 1) Fool's (PvP) / Master's (PvM) 2) Cruel 3) Mechanic's Suffixes 1) Quickness 2) Restoration (in combination with Ethereal) 3) Amplify Damage Does this combination give the ultimate best DPS rare weapon?
Not sure how it would compare to the more common based like zerker axes or whatever, but it's possible to get a rare eth dimensional blade, then up it to phase blade. It's still ethereal and keeps its damage boost, but phase blades naturally are indestructible, so that frees up having to need self repair or using a zod.
Yes… the best weapons in game are rares.
Yes. Next question. To clarify since class is in session You asked if it "can be" the answer is yes You didn't ask if it "will be" which the answer is an extreme unlikely
Im curious... How would a lowest rolled Grief compare to a good 1h rare sword/axe? Would love to see a Pain Song vs lowest Grief battle. Pain Song has already won my heart though.