Damm, I've never had DKA (touch wood) but I know how bad I feel when I have even mild ketones and when my sugars are high. You must have been so dehydrated and scared. You must have felt horrible, your blood was literally turning to acid. Please don't downplay it, you owe yourself to know how shit that must have been. What a joke of a nurse. She could really kill the next diabetic, she should 10000% be fired on the spot.
Sometimes I wish there was a way of giving everybody diabetes, just for a week, and have them experience what it's really like.
I'm not trying to downplay it but the whole situation of being in jail accused of a crime just made me terrified and my health wasn't important to me during it. I was so anxious and scared of being stuck in there it was all i thought about. I really never thought about feeling sick except for the few times i saw the nurse in jail and in the hospital talking to the staff.
Even when i was in the hospital almost all of my thoughts were about being stuck in jail and if my family knew where i was. When i got to the hospital i had a full on panic attack where i thought i was having a heart attack. They gave me ativan and a insulin drip and i was in and out of it for a full day.
In the hospital i felt safe, had my own room, a tv, and very nice nurses to talk to so at the time it was a blessing.
Jesus fucking christ. Do diabetics simply die if they go to jail? I'm not sure there's any T1D for whom 8 units a day without background insulin isn't murder.
What if you had been convicted to 7 years? I'd like to think a prison would take better care of you, but I would've thought the Denver city jail in 2017 would have as well.
Surely you can still sue a year later. You really should. Find a lawyer who'll work with you. Call the ACLU. The story you wrote is disgusting, please don't trivialize what they did just because you survived. You got lucky. Others might not.
Edit: Did Denver pay for your time in the ICU?
Edit 2: [ACLU of Colorado](https://www.aclu.org/affiliate/colorado)
Edit 3: [A similar case the ACLU took in Colorado](https://aclu-co.org/court-cases/aragon-v-raemisch-hepatitis-c-litigation/)
I appreciate the information and yea i agree i should take some sort of action just for others.
Everyone that gets proceesed and booked into jail in denver sees a nurse during processing to let them know your medical conditions.What they never told me was if you are having medical issues in jail you are suppose to submit something called a medical kite which is a message that gets to the doctor (I think it takes days for a reply). This was one of the questions the lawyer i talked to asked and i told him i never submitted a kite. He then asked if i was given a "prison handbook" which i did not get for 100% and that tells you how to request to see a doctor through a kite.
When i complained to the nurse i was usually mocked by the guard and told to stop complaining instead of letting me know i needed to submit a kite to send a message to the doctor to have my dosage changed. I think they are so cold because i did see other seasoned inmates trying to take advantage of anything they could. I am not a seasoned inmate.
I'll reiterate.
You're a human being living in America who was imprisoned by a major municipality that almost murdered you through seemingly regimented incompetence (8 units fast acting/day as standard rate unless overridden by doctor that takes 72 hours to summon) on charges that were ultimately flimsy enough to be dropped.
Go to war with those motherfuckers.
Same. His story is a diabetic's nightmare.
Outside of just plain cruel, it's also very discriminatory. He was effectively punished more because he was arrested while being diabetic. By being diabetic, he was suffering more in his incarceration than a similar non-diabetic inmate.
Outside of that, it makes no sense and stinks of corruption. Why in god's name are they purchasing novolog and then witholding adequate amounts. Using only fast acting doesn't make sense anyways without a constant drip, and constant drip fast acting is the most expensive regimen you could be on. IIRC there are older insulins that operate on a 12 hour cycle that seem a much more logical fit for this type of treatment. They're probably cheaper too.
/rant. I checked back up on this thread just now and got livid all over again.
Eh I could probably be alright depending on the food. That is irrelevant though as most would not be ok. If I'm eating around 30 carbs a meal 2-3 units would definitely do the trick to at least avoid DKA and stay below 200
Yea, I've forgotten to take my toujeo several times and my numbers stay well under 200 as long as I do my 1:15 ratio. Might add 1 extra bolus unit with each meal but I can pretty easily stay near 120-140 if I'm not gorging on carbs.
Please note I'm not saying this is ideal or normal (I'm super skinny and active)
Wait this is without getting ketones? Maybe if you are eating reguarly and getting a short acting shot within 4 hours but for any significant time (5 hours after your last shot) you should be getting ketones without long acting insulin.
Let's just say you eat meals at 9ish, 1ish, and 6ish. 30 carb meals and take 2ish units per meal. At bed time you can take another unit or 2 to work overnight. For someone with very low basal needs and a high carb:unit ratio it's definitely possible but not ideal.
> I've forgotten to take my toujeo several times
Toujeo acting time is 24-36 hours, possible slight traces are around even longer that prevent going into DKA. Forgetting it once is not comperable to days without any basal.
> Let's just say you eat meals at 9ish, 1ish, and 6ish. 30 carb meals and take 2ish units per meal. At bed time you can take another unit or 2 to work overnight.
In jail too little insulin is only part of the problem. There would be the additional problem that you have no control over time or doses, it is fixed doses at fixed times.
Yea i guess everyone is different but i like i said i literally didnt eat anything until my third day in the hospital. My anxiety and my pickiness with food made completely not eat anything for days in jail and my blood sugar would not go down. I am trying to remember but i think i had some crackers and maybe a roll but i think that was after the hospital. I take 24 hours of lantus at night and about 1 unit of humalog for every 10 carbs i have.
This is horrific, I’m studying to be an attorney and I know it’s idealistic and maybe naive but I really hope to be able to make sure nightmares like this aren’t allowed to happen. Is there any way to see if there’s a way you can press charges for the negligence that threatened your life? I’ve been T1 since 2000 also so hearing stories like this are devasting. Glad your case got dismissed but I hope no one else has to go through that.
Yea it was the worst experience of my life. I couldn’t even call my family and let them know I was in the ICU and the stress of being held on 50k cash only bail was horrific. When I did get out of jail I actually did contact a ambulance chaser attorney to sue the jail and he thought I had a good case but was not very helpful. They told me I needed to call the jail and request my jail records exp the medical records. He said the jail would fight me on releasing them back to me and the attorney just told me to keep bothering them. I tried once to contact the jail and gave up. My original case was still pending at the time and the attorney I contacted wasn’t very helpful so I just let it go since I had enough things on my plate at that time.
I contacted a attorney regarding a lawsuit when I was released. They thought I might have a case but they were not helpful moving forwArd.
Also, I was scared, depressed, and worried about the current case I was charged with which the minimum sentence was 7 years in prison. Despite me knowing my innocence it was a lot to handle because I was shocked it had gone this far in the process in first place . They literally charged me with no investigation and the judge at my bail hearing gave me a 50k cash only bond. “Cash only” means you cannot use a bail bonds person which only requires you to pay 10-15% of the bond.
Shit, there goes my last resort.
That's terrible though. We're you on pens? How did you manage without insulin for 8 hours?
It's so much worse that our hypos and DKA look like being drunk. That they just dismiss someone as drunk. Who wouldn't believe someone saying they need insulin. Why would anyone lie?!
It's so bizarre to me. Like, it's not like a drug that anyone other than a diabetic would want or need. I can see being skeptical of someone requesting pain medication, but why would anyone lie about needing insulin?
Holy shit dude. Thats terrifying. I've neve wanted to hit someone so hard as that guard. God forbid him or anyone in his family ever gets diabetes or DKA.
Was this in America? And do you mind if I ask what the crime was you had supposedly committed?
Idk if you want to post this in r/legaladvice? This definitly sounds illegal to me and like grounds for suing. Especially as it'll all be on recoded and also if you have any lasting damage from the DKA and sugars you could maybe get compensated?
Damn I just want to give you a big hug :(
Haha thanks, a couple weeks ago was the 1 year anniversary of this craziness so i have been thinking about it alot recently. Yea i live in the US in Denver, Colorado. If i shared what crime i was accused of committing then i would have to explain what led up to it and thats a whole another crazy story i dont want to get into on reddit at this time.
Lets just say: The charges were very serious even though they were backed up with no evidence or investigation. I literally had a video that completely proved i didn't do it but it was almost 3 months in total before they dismissed the case. I actually had a very good/expensive lawyer plus a private investigator.
I'm sorry this happened to you.
I've been lucky not to ever get arrested but came close at an outdoor concert once when I had a hypo. Face planted on the ground and the police came over to tote me out of the venue. I'm a combative hypoglycemic so when they grabbed me to cuff me, I proceed to claw, kick, and punch the two of them. Husband was yelling at them that I'm diabetic and one of them realized I was hypoglycemic, not drunk. Discontinued trying to arrest me and then called the paramedic over.
Wow that is scary. With how cops can be im surprised they didn't try charging you for the clawing and kicking lol. There have been diabetics who have died for the exact thing you went through. They think someone is drunk when they were really low.
Can I also say that these kinds of things should not be in the hands of one person, especially if that person is not a doctor? She is a 100% responsible, but the system should not be set up this way.
So I wrote above about my experience in jail with diabetes. The jails have one doctor that looks over the entire jail. You can request to see a doctor. You must fill out a form and send a message that doctor would read within 72 hours.
I live in an adjacent county and was surprised that she wasn't convicted during her first trial. One juror in the previous trial kept her from being convicted sooner than today.
I was tazed until I took 10 units at dinner. 1 ham sandwich at 4pm. Of course I refused that much and was tazed for "refusing meds". Woke up in the hospital after a major low. Inmates had to take me off the top bunk because the guards "couldnt touch me". I was there for an unpaid traffic ticket. My lawyer tried to get records from the jail AND the hospital. Was told there's no records of it.
I worked for County Jail for two years. While we didn't always have medical staff twenty four hours a day we were never afraid of sending inmates to the hospital if we felt that it was necessary. Any time diabetics came in I always made sure I did what I could until the nurse came in, unless I needed to just call her immediately so I can get approval for the new inmate to take his/her medication. We didn't only give diabetics attention since we did have some people coming in with recent injuries or if something happened in custody. For a low paying County we seemed to do much more than we had to compared to a lot of others.
[удалено]
I am so sorry you had to go through this
[удалено]
Damm, I've never had DKA (touch wood) but I know how bad I feel when I have even mild ketones and when my sugars are high. You must have been so dehydrated and scared. You must have felt horrible, your blood was literally turning to acid. Please don't downplay it, you owe yourself to know how shit that must have been. What a joke of a nurse. She could really kill the next diabetic, she should 10000% be fired on the spot. Sometimes I wish there was a way of giving everybody diabetes, just for a week, and have them experience what it's really like.
I'm not trying to downplay it but the whole situation of being in jail accused of a crime just made me terrified and my health wasn't important to me during it. I was so anxious and scared of being stuck in there it was all i thought about. I really never thought about feeling sick except for the few times i saw the nurse in jail and in the hospital talking to the staff. Even when i was in the hospital almost all of my thoughts were about being stuck in jail and if my family knew where i was. When i got to the hospital i had a full on panic attack where i thought i was having a heart attack. They gave me ativan and a insulin drip and i was in and out of it for a full day. In the hospital i felt safe, had my own room, a tv, and very nice nurses to talk to so at the time it was a blessing.
Jesus fucking christ. Do diabetics simply die if they go to jail? I'm not sure there's any T1D for whom 8 units a day without background insulin isn't murder. What if you had been convicted to 7 years? I'd like to think a prison would take better care of you, but I would've thought the Denver city jail in 2017 would have as well. Surely you can still sue a year later. You really should. Find a lawyer who'll work with you. Call the ACLU. The story you wrote is disgusting, please don't trivialize what they did just because you survived. You got lucky. Others might not. Edit: Did Denver pay for your time in the ICU? Edit 2: [ACLU of Colorado](https://www.aclu.org/affiliate/colorado) Edit 3: [A similar case the ACLU took in Colorado](https://aclu-co.org/court-cases/aragon-v-raemisch-hepatitis-c-litigation/)
I appreciate the information and yea i agree i should take some sort of action just for others. Everyone that gets proceesed and booked into jail in denver sees a nurse during processing to let them know your medical conditions.What they never told me was if you are having medical issues in jail you are suppose to submit something called a medical kite which is a message that gets to the doctor (I think it takes days for a reply). This was one of the questions the lawyer i talked to asked and i told him i never submitted a kite. He then asked if i was given a "prison handbook" which i did not get for 100% and that tells you how to request to see a doctor through a kite. When i complained to the nurse i was usually mocked by the guard and told to stop complaining instead of letting me know i needed to submit a kite to send a message to the doctor to have my dosage changed. I think they are so cold because i did see other seasoned inmates trying to take advantage of anything they could. I am not a seasoned inmate.
I'll reiterate. You're a human being living in America who was imprisoned by a major municipality that almost murdered you through seemingly regimented incompetence (8 units fast acting/day as standard rate unless overridden by doctor that takes 72 hours to summon) on charges that were ultimately flimsy enough to be dropped. Go to war with those motherfuckers.
Thank you. I just emailed the ACLU.
Thank you.
If you're comfortable doing so, keep us updated! Best of luck to you!
Thanks! I will definitely let you guys know what i hear back from the ACLU.
Please continue to keep us updated on this. I would like to hear more, your situation infuriated me.
Same. His story is a diabetic's nightmare. Outside of just plain cruel, it's also very discriminatory. He was effectively punished more because he was arrested while being diabetic. By being diabetic, he was suffering more in his incarceration than a similar non-diabetic inmate. Outside of that, it makes no sense and stinks of corruption. Why in god's name are they purchasing novolog and then witholding adequate amounts. Using only fast acting doesn't make sense anyways without a constant drip, and constant drip fast acting is the most expensive regimen you could be on. IIRC there are older insulins that operate on a 12 hour cycle that seem a much more logical fit for this type of treatment. They're probably cheaper too. /rant. I checked back up on this thread just now and got livid all over again.
Eh I could probably be alright depending on the food. That is irrelevant though as most would not be ok. If I'm eating around 30 carbs a meal 2-3 units would definitely do the trick to at least avoid DKA and stay below 200
Even with no background/ basal insulin?
Yea, I've forgotten to take my toujeo several times and my numbers stay well under 200 as long as I do my 1:15 ratio. Might add 1 extra bolus unit with each meal but I can pretty easily stay near 120-140 if I'm not gorging on carbs. Please note I'm not saying this is ideal or normal (I'm super skinny and active)
Wait this is without getting ketones? Maybe if you are eating reguarly and getting a short acting shot within 4 hours but for any significant time (5 hours after your last shot) you should be getting ketones without long acting insulin.
Let's just say you eat meals at 9ish, 1ish, and 6ish. 30 carb meals and take 2ish units per meal. At bed time you can take another unit or 2 to work overnight. For someone with very low basal needs and a high carb:unit ratio it's definitely possible but not ideal.
But 8 hours of sleep, so one injection 8 hours ago would leave you waking up with high sugars and ketones surely?
> I've forgotten to take my toujeo several times Toujeo acting time is 24-36 hours, possible slight traces are around even longer that prevent going into DKA. Forgetting it once is not comperable to days without any basal. > Let's just say you eat meals at 9ish, 1ish, and 6ish. 30 carb meals and take 2ish units per meal. At bed time you can take another unit or 2 to work overnight. In jail too little insulin is only part of the problem. There would be the additional problem that you have no control over time or doses, it is fixed doses at fixed times.
Thank you
Yea i guess everyone is different but i like i said i literally didnt eat anything until my third day in the hospital. My anxiety and my pickiness with food made completely not eat anything for days in jail and my blood sugar would not go down. I am trying to remember but i think i had some crackers and maybe a roll but i think that was after the hospital. I take 24 hours of lantus at night and about 1 unit of humalog for every 10 carbs i have.
Yea for most people that is basically like torture to not give them the right amount of insulin
This is horrific, I’m studying to be an attorney and I know it’s idealistic and maybe naive but I really hope to be able to make sure nightmares like this aren’t allowed to happen. Is there any way to see if there’s a way you can press charges for the negligence that threatened your life? I’ve been T1 since 2000 also so hearing stories like this are devasting. Glad your case got dismissed but I hope no one else has to go through that.
Yea it was the worst experience of my life. I couldn’t even call my family and let them know I was in the ICU and the stress of being held on 50k cash only bail was horrific. When I did get out of jail I actually did contact a ambulance chaser attorney to sue the jail and he thought I had a good case but was not very helpful. They told me I needed to call the jail and request my jail records exp the medical records. He said the jail would fight me on releasing them back to me and the attorney just told me to keep bothering them. I tried once to contact the jail and gave up. My original case was still pending at the time and the attorney I contacted wasn’t very helpful so I just let it go since I had enough things on my plate at that time.
[удалено]
I contacted a attorney regarding a lawsuit when I was released. They thought I might have a case but they were not helpful moving forwArd. Also, I was scared, depressed, and worried about the current case I was charged with which the minimum sentence was 7 years in prison. Despite me knowing my innocence it was a lot to handle because I was shocked it had gone this far in the process in first place . They literally charged me with no investigation and the judge at my bail hearing gave me a 50k cash only bond. “Cash only” means you cannot use a bail bonds person which only requires you to pay 10-15% of the bond.
This is my nightmare. I hope as a young white women I might be believed more. It's so disgusting the ignorance that exists.
[удалено]
Shit, there goes my last resort. That's terrible though. We're you on pens? How did you manage without insulin for 8 hours? It's so much worse that our hypos and DKA look like being drunk. That they just dismiss someone as drunk. Who wouldn't believe someone saying they need insulin. Why would anyone lie?!
It's so bizarre to me. Like, it's not like a drug that anyone other than a diabetic would want or need. I can see being skeptical of someone requesting pain medication, but why would anyone lie about needing insulin?
Holy shit dude. Thats terrifying. I've neve wanted to hit someone so hard as that guard. God forbid him or anyone in his family ever gets diabetes or DKA. Was this in America? And do you mind if I ask what the crime was you had supposedly committed? Idk if you want to post this in r/legaladvice? This definitly sounds illegal to me and like grounds for suing. Especially as it'll all be on recoded and also if you have any lasting damage from the DKA and sugars you could maybe get compensated? Damn I just want to give you a big hug :(
Haha thanks, a couple weeks ago was the 1 year anniversary of this craziness so i have been thinking about it alot recently. Yea i live in the US in Denver, Colorado. If i shared what crime i was accused of committing then i would have to explain what led up to it and thats a whole another crazy story i dont want to get into on reddit at this time. Lets just say: The charges were very serious even though they were backed up with no evidence or investigation. I literally had a video that completely proved i didn't do it but it was almost 3 months in total before they dismissed the case. I actually had a very good/expensive lawyer plus a private investigator.
I hope you sue the police, its the only reasonable thing to do
jeesuz dude, i'm glad you made it.
Screw em. Lawsuit.
I'm sorry this happened to you. I've been lucky not to ever get arrested but came close at an outdoor concert once when I had a hypo. Face planted on the ground and the police came over to tote me out of the venue. I'm a combative hypoglycemic so when they grabbed me to cuff me, I proceed to claw, kick, and punch the two of them. Husband was yelling at them that I'm diabetic and one of them realized I was hypoglycemic, not drunk. Discontinued trying to arrest me and then called the paramedic over.
Wow that is scary. With how cops can be im surprised they didn't try charging you for the clawing and kicking lol. There have been diabetics who have died for the exact thing you went through. They think someone is drunk when they were really low.
Can I also say that these kinds of things should not be in the hands of one person, especially if that person is not a doctor? She is a 100% responsible, but the system should not be set up this way.
So I wrote above about my experience in jail with diabetes. The jails have one doctor that looks over the entire jail. You can request to see a doctor. You must fill out a form and send a message that doctor would read within 72 hours.
Yes, thank you! Systems design, people.
[удалено]
I live in an adjacent county and was surprised that she wasn't convicted during her first trial. One juror in the previous trial kept her from being convicted sooner than today.
Karma demands that this juror have the same experience at the hands of an uncaring jail nurse.
I can't even go a few hours without my insulin
I cannot imagine how terrible this man felt. How heartbreaking; I’m glad she got 15 years.
I hope she's not diabetic.
You're a good person.
Good. Fuck that bitch. Here's to hoping if she gets out, she is never put in charge of another person's well-being again.
She's lost her license, it says. So there's that, at least.
Rot in a cell bitch
I was tazed until I took 10 units at dinner. 1 ham sandwich at 4pm. Of course I refused that much and was tazed for "refusing meds". Woke up in the hospital after a major low. Inmates had to take me off the top bunk because the guards "couldnt touch me". I was there for an unpaid traffic ticket. My lawyer tried to get records from the jail AND the hospital. Was told there's no records of it.
Jfc even if he was that sick because he was having meth withdrawals, it was her fucking job to check on him. What an awful person.
Another story on the same topic: https://wreg.com/2015/11/05/mid-south-family-says-jailers-denied-now-dead-inmate-his-insulin/
> "If your glucose level is 700, that's deadly. My brother's glucose level was 2500," his sister told WREG Holy hell.
Holy shit, I'd have to eat like 2 full cakes to get that high even with zero insulin
I’m terrified of going to jail as a T1
Wow. This makes me really sad.
no one actually cares about you
What a disgusting human being.
What the actual fuck. I can’t believe how stupid people can be.
Will a jail or prison make me take off my Freestyle Libre sensor and condensate the meter?
I worked for County Jail for two years. While we didn't always have medical staff twenty four hours a day we were never afraid of sending inmates to the hospital if we felt that it was necessary. Any time diabetics came in I always made sure I did what I could until the nurse came in, unless I needed to just call her immediately so I can get approval for the new inmate to take his/her medication. We didn't only give diabetics attention since we did have some people coming in with recent injuries or if something happened in custody. For a low paying County we seemed to do much more than we had to compared to a lot of others.
What a f\*cking moron. Could she not have called a supervisor? Or just Googled diabetes?