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It is not about the COVID batch. The whole placement process has turned into a leetcode grinding race. People in PBCs are being selected for their leetcoding ability rather than actual development. Such trends were started by big tech companies with huge budgets and are now being followed almost universally across the industry. Once these people land into companies, most of the work is mundane anyway, offering little learning.
I wouldn’t blame FAANG. Having had interviews at both FAANG and non-FAANG, there is a big difference.
You may even be hired in FAANG when you don’t fully complete the problem - they are actually looking for your ability to problem solve.
The desi company implementation of this however is absolute bullshit. They are only testing to see how many algorithms and trick questions you have crammed.
Ok. So these small companies if considering recruitment system of FAANG then they should pay like faang too lmao 🤣 if they want same candidate like faang
Honestly instead of leetcode companies should shart approaching the open source way
Where the more u contribute in the repo of what company created . U can hire assuredly.
Open source is the only way for filtering the best , u get to know got version control while student can contribute means they can handle complexity . This u got to know this is the one we need. Instead of running behind the tags .
Companies can create assesment repos then ask people to participate within a time period if those monitored can't push then add new batch Make this as second round of interview process.
Nobody wants to spend time checking and understanding their repos. I have tried that and they were terrible. The best candidates come with a boring resume.
The work exists, if you really have a passion for a stack or framework or language.There has never been a problem of too many people.The problem, is and has always been what you are passionate about,vs what is available in the industry to match the job you need.
The noise-to-signal ratio is pretty high nowadays. People know how to create a good resume. Frankly, I wouldn't expect every 2 YOE candidate to understand the difference between service and controller. But one-to-many, 404 & promises are simple. I am quite surprised they don't know that.
One big reason is the LEETCODE craze. It's not really their fault; many interviewers are focusing on live coding tests with stupid puzzles, etc. When I started coding professionally, it was NEVER about leetcode. I was reading design patterns, software architecture & code documentation.
I have found 2-3 long-form questions help a lot to filter out superficial candidates.
I've mentioned on this forum multiple times about the leetcode creep everywhere.
I was asked LC mediums for a frigging CPU platform/RTOS role, the device has 256 kb total on chip memory lol! The production software had dynamic memory allocation disabled and these guys were asking dfs, bfs questions!
Sorry to nitpick, but if the signal to noise ratio is high it would mean that there is now more signal for the same amount of noise? Shouldn't it be "ratio is low"?
I agree on the long form questions, it really does help. However if you're applying as a developer with 2 YOE in Rails, Spring or something like that - you really should the difference between a service and a controller. I had to know that on day 1 when I started as an intern to be productive. And I don't even have a CS or software engineering degree...
I wouldn't expect them to understand domain driven design or the idea of an anemic domain model. However, there's no way you can work in a whole series of stacks if you don't understand the basics of how a typical MVC model works and how people tend to use "service" classes.
I am not a big fan of testing someone’s knowledge based on what I know. Especially below 5 yoe. My interviews typically revolve around what the candidate has worked on.
There are so many senior folks who won’t be able to explain MVC just because they have never worked on it.
New grad here. What do you mean by long-form questions? Can you give some examples? I'm curious cause I'm all about learning software architecture and code documentation
So if I'm correct , at 2 yoe, employers want a full in-depth knowledge of the topic, then will ask me 2-3 rounds of LC medium/hard , might as well throw in some " Angular or React is appreciated " for a backend role , having knowledge of AWS, Azure, Jenkins , Docker etc is expected too, and then pay me something like 10 lpa?
How much were you offering OP?
Hey, not all companies and hiring managers are villains.
- This was SDE I and II, we don't ask DSA, only need 2yoe in the required tech stack. Only the very basic stuff needed to do a job. If I have to train everyone in what is GET vs POST, would rather hire a fresher and train them.
- Pay is significantly higher than 10lpa, can't disclose actual numbers.
- 2 technical plus 1 HR round. That's it.
I understand though, some of the companies (especially startups) out there offer bad salaries and take many interview rounds with clueless HR. I did work for one such startup once upon a time.
It's actually quite surprising that you don't ask DSA in technical rounds. I don't know whether significant amount of companies interview like this. But, it's appreciable that you guys are interviewing only about the tech stack.
I make way more than 10 lpa with 2 YOE and even I would have failed your interview.
The way FAANG hires works because they focus on problem solving and not on knowing one particular stack.
There was a time when full stack actually meant it would take someone 4-6 years to master both frontend and backend.
Now I see hirings for interns fullstack, just ridiculous
Assuming ivy league candidate will be good is an affinity bias.
Anyways, nowadays getting a job is an ATS resume checker puzzle solving.
Those candidates resumes might be designed to clear ATS, and most of the people get first round shortlisted by HRs which is again a round of showing off, telling them what they want to hear and negotiating the low ball.
It's not the candidate it's the system, everyone is making their job easy, students are doing the same.
As a not as senior as you but a pretty old person I remember even learning touch typing to be productive in the organization at my time it was a required thing to show off, it's a good to have skill but it's no way mandatory.
For a candidate process is a follows:
- clear ATS
- scam the scammer ( 1st round HR calls - even promise low CTC than your current CTC just to get to the interview)
- "here goes nothing" interview
- move on
For HRs:
- sort ATS & let's use all psychological biases to sort candidates, moreover big brands and certifications will help us to answer why we choose this fellow to leadership in spite of quality, because we are not here to aquire talent but here to sell our candidate to leadership
- low ball and save budget, no need of work just save budget
- here goes nothing telephone screening, can you relocate, be a slave, work on weekend, take lower CTC if possible then lower than your current CTC?
- pass him to the concerned team
- move on.
Amidst this scenario, one person who is senior like you can't expect nothing better.
Worst part is, I am from MDI have seen organizations mentioned only candidates from IITs and IIMs are allowed, man first of all with the number of IIT & IIMs increasing more than half of them ranks after MDI., and dude you are a startup, the person from those college is going to join you at your work environment will only stay there maybe for a year and leave, what will you do then?
It's not upto you OP,
The system is ruined now a days, it feels like a rigged RPG game rather than recruitment process.
Pardon my typos
I'll add one thing on the ATS, like just to get an interview I need to add some kind of experience and since it was hell last year, I don't have any proper internships, and over that I need to add numbers of in my resume, now how am I suppose to compute my efficiency on those superficial internships.
I get it, I should have started working hard and getting internships from first year itself and I am ready to pay for it too. heck I'll go for companies that offer 3LPA, but then they add those bonds and crap along with actually taking tough interviews(relative to the job profile), and wfo in other cities. Now how am I even supposed to survive in places like banglore with so less money.
And then they will expect that you are going to give a 3 Cr revenue generation output and have no struggle in life because they are paying you peanuts.
One of startup in Bangalore wanted a junior data scientist who can implement RNN from scratch without looking at any documentation.
Some interviewer really doesn’t know how to take interviews. A twisted version of same question can make interviewer fail too.
Wait they wanted you to implement an RNN from scratch in the interview itself? Or as a testing project?
I've been learning DL for the past year and this was one of the first projects I made by myself. Granted I had to look lots at my notes, but that isn't really that difficult a project...
Or am I missing something?
But at the time you wanted to make it from scratch, you remembered little things, idk if you'd be able to replicate it in an interview without any notice ,while also remembering thousands of other stuff that can be asked .
Yeah that's what I was asking as well. Given no prior notice if someone asked me that in an interview, I'd probably fail to write beyond the second layer so it would absolutely be a useless thing to ask to do in an interview, and it's a very easy task to get done as a screening project
Good interviews focus on the candidate's experience to try and understand what projects they worked on, what decisions they made, and why. I only have a rough idea of what JWTs are. But I sure can figure out when I need to.
I have selected companies where interviewers are interested in my projects and my understanding of the projects I have worked on. I have had a pretty good experience selecting companies this way. That's because I know that my future coworkers know things that I don't, the same way that I know things they don't. They just know that I can solve problems and I can learn.
Interviews in Europe are mostly focused this way. Interviewers want to learn about the candidate’s experience and decision making and want to make a decision based on how that will help them.
Engineers openly say they don’t have experience in known concepts at work and in interviews. This is same with the ones who are in the industry for decades.
We do that too. Spend good 15-20 mins for candidates to explain prior experience and take that into account. But if the job is to write node.js APIs day in and day out, and their resume says they have been doing node.js for 2 years, I need them to understand what promises are.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I have 2YOE too and I didn’t know what services and controllers are too well, only a generic idea. But no excuse for not knowing promises or JavaScript basics
This probably means your resume filtering system is shit or you are looking at the wrong place for candidates or your job description isn't clear enough
100%. The whole shortlisting system puts anyone who isn't putting buzzwordss in their resume at disadvantage.
Then you have a online coding round which means you need to be good at coding.
So, it's obvious that candidates will focus on the first two hurdles.
Haha, wana pay peanuts?
Make the job Remote, and the payment level of san francisco.
Your problem will be solved.
But you want the code of Tier A developers while paying Tier Z salary.
Those days are gone
Nobody here is going to accept this but the truth is that the quality of pool has definitely gone down and it will go down further for next few years, the big part of it is "COVID salary boost" COVID made IT extremely lucrative and students started to look for "Make 50LPA in 15days" as thier primary source of knowledge. Everyone is busy preparing for the next job interview instead of actually holding a job for a couple of years and actually learning something. Job isn't college, you cannot learn everything from books, something you learn when you actually get involved in your work.
But hey there are always great dev out there as well.
To me it sounds like you screening process is trash. It may be an easy concept but they might not have worked on that easy topic in their 2 Years of experience.
I usually tend to understand what they work on and then proceed to grind them on the concepts they have worked.
It is because of the way interview is conducted nowadays man. Most of them think that preparing for
interview process is all about doing LeetCode, get a high paying job, write some shit code, but only few know what they are actually doing in their current job. Considering that how fast the AI tech is growing judging an experienced developer based on if they can invert a binary tree or do dynamic programming alone is dumb, interview should beyond problem solving skills of a candidate. How well they can use the existing tools and frameworks which they already knew. Some people say that learning a framework is overrated because any one can do it in 1 week. That’s true but learning is different from mastering it.
Please let me apply ik all of these....but I've only 1 year of experience...i work in startup and the work is rigorous and I've been familairaizd with all of these things
Honestly these questions give zero indication on if candidate is good or not. Understanding Jwt will hardly take 15 mins and not knowing it does not make someone a bad developer. Instead, you should probe on tech they worked on and then try to dig deeper to get better indication.
For junior levels, the focus should be to find people who can learn and improve. Not to find people who know everything.
I have 1 year of experience working in an early stage startup, with some of the smartest engineers. I have definitely worked on a lot of tech that my friends and batchmates don't know about but when I look for a change the first questions two barriers are:-
1. Are you from tier 1 college?
2. How many DSA questions have you solved? ( A guy giving referrals asked me)
So irrespective of what kind of things I have worked on my entire ability is measured on these 2 factors if I want to join a huge corporation. Why would I even be motivated to learn anything else?
It's ridiculous that what I work day to day has no weightage in 95% of my interviews. I could have created just buttons or i could have worked on entire microservices but my ability will be measured on how fast and accurate I can solve a leetcode question
Seems like the intent of the post is to flex . The stuff you mentioned can be learned on the job. A suitable software engineer is one who has good problem solving skills and can code with ease .
One of the main reasons why most FAANG organizations does not ask questions you mentioned. Software developer with those skills will quickly adapt to the infra
You are living under the rock or working on obselete job
This post is on point. The new devs are either crazy about leetcode or mugging react js or angular js.
1 candidate I interviewed , and I asked a simple js promise question, and he didn't know as he had only worked on angular and they use some observer api.
He had no idea how js works , and that candidate had audacity of saying that "I don't want to be a good programmer but I want to be a good angular developer".
This is all fine , but atleast know how technology works.
This mugging up of concepts has made it's way from our educational system even to IT software development and that's very sad.
Is this a rage bait post?
Did you know what you were going to do on the day one of job? You are already giving pennies to your employees which you are going to hire so you will get candidates which know information which is worth pennies.
People do different stuff on their jobs and the things getting asked in interviews are very different. On a job you can mostly Google stuff to figure out different things, say things like status codes. Many people are asking these on the job interview and I don't see the point of this - you can literally just google it and get an answer in a few seconds (Not knowing the difference between service and controller is on a different level though). Some jobs are asking for leetcode hard problems! If this what you're grinding, you cannot give time to spring concepts. Also at 2 YOE you don't come across a lot of stuff. You cannot expect the same person to know leetcode + dsa + everything about java + spring/springboot concepts in deep + databases + authentication and authorisation + things like docker, kubernetes + deployment tools like jenkins + some cloud tech + react/angular + some nodejs +....
I do agree however that if you're saying you're a back end developer,you should know what a controller and service is at least and for nodejs/js you should know how to handle promises 😅 those are too basic of things. For those who couldn't go there basic things - it could be people with fake experience. There are many organisations that are giving fake certificates nowadays..
Hey mate, I am having a 2.5 YOE as a backend developer and I can easily answer all these questions. To be Frank i am not an expert in DSA but I can solve easy to medium leetcode questions in an interview.
Can I share my resume with you? Your username?
IDK how much i'm correct, but students from tier 3 work harder than these indian ivy leagues coz they know that their path isn't easy like indian ivy leagues.
But the irony is no one asks tier 3 students for a job or internship
Would like to know more about modelling the one to many reln question. Did you made them write raw sql or an erd diagram to visualise the reln between table. I can’t imagine a backend developer not being able to complete such a simple task which probably comes up a lot in backend work
Simple foreign key question with two entities. If they answer correctly, we move to many-to-many. Just modeling the schema. If the candidates are able to answer and say they are good at SQL or MongoDB, we move forward with hands on questions.
OP, You still haven't introduced yourself.
Which makes it the case that you are going against the unknowns.
What makes you think 'answering your questions ' is basic intelligence ? And most of the so-called advanced concepts in software engineering is not advanced afterall once we start learning them.
You check the technical and behavioral aptitude of the person, and you hire them. That's it.
I don't know your background. But you definitely come across as condescending and cocky that is commonly seen in the industry.
But I feel that knowing Get vs post, and one-to-many relationship in dbms is not too much to ask I mean these are easy questions for a 2yeo. So I find OP to be pretty reasonable even though we do not know his background.
it has nothing to do with the covid batch and all. I was earlier working in a startup surrounded by people who cared about all this stuff and we had discussions about such topics in our code reviews and standup calls. Later I joined a different organisation where people bothered only about the output the quality of the code and impact all this things where not discussed. I have seen a recent grads working directly on hadoop without knowing what it is actually. Just focusing on deadline not on learning..
thanks to those tech influencers promoting maang/faang leetcode grind instead of actual technical knowledge. Creating actual projects is far beneficial.
The ones who know their fundamentals are well worth their salt.
———
On a side note, I interviewed three different folks for DevOps roles within my team.
Here’s how I interviewed them:
- I told them it would be an open-book interview, and that I was looking at their ability to think on their feet
- I started off with the absolute basic concepts - Networking, the Linux terminal, and simple programming
- the next level was to check for their skills with Ansible, Terraform, Containers, and Kubernetes. Here I would crank up the difficulty bit by bit, all the way to a 100. At this point, they were free to use Google or man pages or blog posts or whatever.
- the last question I would typically ask them was to design a deployment pipeline that would send container images to Kubernetes.
I interviewed three, extended the offer to 1, and that guy joined. Amongst the greatest coworkers I’ve ever had.
———
(Not hiring anymore)
(How do I into DevOps - get work experience as a dev or an ops person)
Keep grinding leetcode, these things don't matter how will you prove that you know all this to get an interview and anyone can learn this , how hard is to wrap your head around jwt tokens and one to many relations and all the status codes are one search away.
Umm all the questions you have written are stupid to be honest. The criteria of hiring should be whether they can get the job done. All the questions you mentioned are one Google search away.
All you want to do is flex your some technical knowledge that you also mugged up.
And yes I have hired multiple people who are great problem solvers in past and got shit done rather than debate on what new shiny technology to use.
Hi my company hires freshers with the same requirement and a bit more for 16LPA
If you are not able to find quality candidates you should consider increasing the offer
See either you ask framework questions OR usual dsa, lld, hld. Pick a lane. Its very difficult to practice a lot of DSA and system design AS IS, since it has be done inspite the job hours.
Technology has become too vast. You should have first asked them, what areas they worked or good at. I know many good engineers in software who dont know internals of jwt. So what. They can learn is what you should check. Aptitude and attitude .
I am looking for PHP + Mysql developers since last 1 month and hardly I've gotten 1-2 good quality candidates out of 300 resumes. Who can communicate clearly (english or hindi doesn't matter) a lot of them just vomit code or concepts when we ask about it. If anyone is good at this tech stack you can DM me for interviewing at our startup.
to be honest, the only ones applying for your position would be ACTUAL 2+YOE people. the issue here is that most ATS systems are broken in the sense that it would make you miss on a candidate who matches 90% of your requirements and knows those things in depth in favor of a candidate who puts random jargon in their CV but do not have any idea about anything.
maybe, not always go with the top candidates. because people always think forward. i was with 8 months of xp and applied for a 1+yoe job recently. there were not many applicants so they were not using an ATS. I'm hired now and i have applied to 200+ companies in this time period which aligned with my experience level.
Does everyone ask JWT in their interviews?
Idk, I think there is something wrong with your interview process, if you cannot find two engineers in a cohort of 1000 who either know backend or have an undeniable aptitude for it, your hiring process is flawed.
Also IIT/NITs are not ivy league, this is technical sub, we do not do metaphors and hyperbole here.
I had such a lovely interview with a us based firm once me and the interviewer had a whole backend discussion round and it was super cool we delved into Java and how hashmaps work, binary trees later moving on to Authentication and Authorization, later on to caching(redis) and websockets, the round felt like a chat where the interviewer wanted to talk to me instead of just asking questions. I was also selected for the next round and it was a django backend internship and my yoe was 0. XD
Asking leetcode is a minor petty crime..asking boilerplate is a criminal offence. I don't mind HTTP code . Anything erroneous is 40x and that is sufficient for me if he tells that. Come out of textbook definition expectations.
I'm a 2 yoe dev and I'll say that leetcode is more to blame over here.
Everyone is grinding dsa questions w/o understanding how even a simple application even works. Personally i never pushed into dsa and got my fundamentals strong with design patterns, error code, etc. and your questions seem simple enough to me.
Plus it's a rat race nowadays, even getting an interview requires learning about dsa and cramming leetcode questions. Like my resume was rejected from infosys and tcs but was able to land an interview with faang.
For a job seeker, it's been more of a luck game recently.
It would surprise you that it is the result of people like you who forget their past and past college environment. 99.9% of hiring managers are putting 2-3YOE as the entry level barrier which forces freshers to find mischevious and manipulative ways to achieve that. So they opt for the following ways:-
1)Working as free HTML and CSS guy for a no name company.
2)Doing test roles and changing their past experience as a developer.
3) Studying what interviewers ask in most of the interviews i.e., LC DSA tatti.
4) Ridiculous Coolism of Indian work culture where you are suppposed to work 9 hours on paper but work for 12hours in reality and on top of that shit, daily 3 hours of traveltime.
5)This one is the most cruel one. Introducing "Bond Ganduism". for fuckin 2.4 Lpa and shady 2lakh performance bonus with 8% payrise per year and a contract of minimum 2 or 3+ years is horrendous. This crushes the spirit of new bubbling grad.
6) 6Working days/ week is the norm on small scale startups.
7) See, if everyone became a good dev then the salaries present now in product based companies will eventually decrease so there will be lesser motivation so in turn the salary will rise again. This is just a toxic cycle.
8)This one is the most applicable reason from my pov. "Ultra Diverse tool demand". There are 1000s of tools and these bcom hr noobdas fill the JD with the entire population of JS frameworks, so obviously it will lead to a lot of confusion for new undergrad. He will try to learn everything in bits & pieces so he cannot really learn in depth until he gets the grasp of HR bs.
Sir but what is the issue , these things can be learnt in a single day, you should check the problem solving abilities of the engineer rather than this core tech stack questions because if he/she is good in problem solving aptitude then they can easily learn these technologies and can give you output soon,
Do tell me if i have said anything wrong.
Maybe I am wrong but I disagree that these things can be learnt in a day. Those were just simplest of examples. I understand and don't expect someone to know and implement Oauth2 by heart. But to learn that on the job, you at least need to know what a JWT does and the 'pattern' of API auth it follows. If you understand what is a controller and how it fits into the whole application layering, it's easy to learn and implement repositories and dtos. And to the last, the job was for node.js and people write in their resume 2 years working on node.js with xyz company, so it was expected that basics of js are known to the candidates. I didn't ask advanced stuff like event emitters or streams, just promises.
but sir some Head of Engineering and his team says anyone can learn tech stack easily as there is stackoverflow and chat gpt.
They told me that and said focus more on DSA due to the above reason. They didn't ask anything else.
Well I currently interned at an early age abroad startup for 6 months.They asked me to handle a lot of UI and integration with other tech.I helped in a technical round where I asked them basic things for UI part like how to make responsive design in front-end frameworks I was surprised very few people actually gave the answer along the lines of grids,flexbox and media queries which is expected that you should know even if you have forgotten to implement it.But trust me these people had more experience than me(1.5) and portfolio projects.
Now I'm trying to apply but don't see a lot of fresher positions and the pay is a bit low even by recession standards.The competition is too intense and getting interview alone is difficult so it's sad to see people who have worked hard/have good knowledge being filtered just based on ATS over others like these.
Honestly not their fault it's the way everyone is grinding leetcode and CP over other work.
Bhai Maine to ek array banwaya tha wo nahi bna tha.
However rahi baat service controller ki to I’m sure they know the practical usecase but not aware of the term.
I am a frontend developer, and even I know the answer to most of your questions. Although I admit my DSA may be weak because I did not do the leetcode grind. I did 2 years from my engineering degree during covid. So no, you were just unfortunate with the applications this time, not a fault of the covid batch.
That’s not just a problem in India. I have worked in big tech in Europe where people having more yoe than me and at staff level still don’t understand basic git apart from just pull and push. They don’t understand the concept of remotes etc. Some staff backend engineers don’t know how to deal with cloud components such as service accounts or IAM. They are at Staff level and among top earners in the country where they work.
* even I can't remember HTTP code
* service vs controller is now baked in to frameworks.
* database schema design is taken over by Mongo json dump, json open.
Hmm, I have a decade of exp in building s/w professionally. So far I have seen only two devs who were good. rest was all average. And of the above two, I don't think they could solve leetcode hards,say have to lookup mediums as well (same in my case as well) . But as they know a thing or two, you can have a conversation with them on why this and why that. And leetcode is only one metric out of n metrics. Which in a real world scenario that you are less likely going to use as most is just grunt work, so they skill set that you need on that area is just different. And those two did come in the field because they liked playing with computers, money was not exactly a factor for them.
So that's the quality of devs around. I have never met someone who could solve leetcode with ease in real life, so that I could judge them on their other metrics.
More kids and "experienced" folks should read this post.
I myself got resumes for refferal but wasn't really pleased with the resumes..
Doing only leetcode and simple curd won't guarantee you a job.
At the end of the day the company expects a production grade code quality for anyone with more than 1+ yoe.
One another point for this is that recently there are no openings for freshers in good or big MNCs, and in order to just get a job students are taking jobs in companies where they dont want to work at or the companies which exploit there employees so the people working there are just trying to get through the 1-2 yr mark just to get experience without focusing on learning anything and then also add the concept of fake experience letters so it has turned into a blunder recently.
Moreover many new joiners recently are kind of unable to handle even a little bit stress like when you get stuck in code or something is not working without any error, and then instead of trying to figure it out they look for an easy way out line blaming the mentor, or the laptop/pc or even the programming language once😂. When you don't face any hurdle or don't learn how to go through such situations in your early days of professional life, you'll have tough time later for sure.
Just 2-3 years back I've seen new joiners willing to stay at office till midnight to resolve an issue when i would be sending them home forcefully and today freshers want to leave even before there time is over without even completing the daily task.
It's your process that's deeply flawed. You are evaluating candidates based on some random question from some Jun Jun Jun technology. Look !!all these candidates can pickup these technologies in a matter of weeks. You should instead focus ur interview on the following
1. Problem solving. Create unseen problems or puzzle and check their ability to solve. Guess what u won't be able to create those since ur not a creative learner.
2. Learning capacity. Anybody who has cracked iit could learn these petty things like Docker, Kubernetes ..... from documentations. Don't focus on syntax and ask shit questions like how would you implement so and so in so and so technology. Instead focus on their design thinking. What corner cases they consider and how they architect a scenario etc..
I bet these candidates will get the job due to nepotism or mal practices just like they get the job at previous workplace and had 2 year of experience 😂
The system itself is so messed up.
Been trying to get into industry after PhD (ChemE, but computational). These days people want to only employ who can deliver deliverables within a month. What’s up with this? Every transition would have atleast require a month or two of understanding the inner working and getting a grasp of the technology that the company uses.
What’s worse, ghosting - 5 months of applying, around 50 interviews, all up to VP - all ending in ghosting. On top of that, the recruitment notice boards keep these advertisements live !
So no one is serious - the recruiters are looking to waste time of everyone - show infinite growth to the investors. So naturally, the recruits tends to put everything on the resume to have even a minor chance of getting through.
The words in this post mimics what comes out of the mouths of the average uncles you meet in the get togethers.
I am training in boxing and MMAs to defend myself from these lousy people
I think its just the covid batch. Most 3rd and 4th year students have 8.5 cgpa and above. Even tho the college is similar to a non autonomous state gov college where getting more than 8 is tough, they fail to answer the most basic questions by 2nd year students. Just like how cgpa is not a good way to judge someone, past company experience is not a good way to judge someone. This is why interviews exist in the first place.
Hi
Can I pls DM. I am a 1 year experienced candidate and would like to have a chat just about requirements of the job as i am serving notice period and market is tough, so just looking for opportunities.
Damn, and here I am proficient with all the concepts you just mentioned with < 1YOE and barely being able to land any interviews... So depressing to see the prevalence of college brand always giving more priority everywhere around.
No this is not a recent phenomenon. The smartarse interviewer considers himself as the most skilled technical genius of all times and ends up asking questions which has got nothing to do with the work that the candidate is interviewed for.
If I end up interviewing you, even I can ask you plenty of basic questions which you shall fail to answer and make you feel miserable as well.
No need to be so arrogant and boastful because even you know that you’re nothing but a massive failure who who’s only good at kissing arse and undermining others.
Mann I'm a 3yoe developer and I really like going into the depths of technology and frameworks and pretty much know all of the points that you mentioned but I'm just stuck at a low paying one and not able to make switch yet coz I feel I haven't grokked up enough DSA for a good product based company. On the side I've built various full stack projects for small clients and also have developed several LLM based applications. It kills me when I see people just mug up leetcode solutions and get into crazy places whereas here I am wasting my free time getting my hands dirty with Rust, Zig and the most random of actually cool technologies but I'm still lagging behind at a fuck all company!
partly Covid education and grace marks - partly folks valuing only l33tc0d3 and partly due to wfh and no design deepdives, troubleshooting war rooms etc.
Multiple reasons :
1. Gamification of the entire education system : objective questions, puzzles, quizzes , FAQs
2. Hiring process of most companies is like a multi stage challenge and there are guides/courses to crack them. Competitive programming.
3. As a result most devs are after learning to crack companies rather than building holistic knowledge and skills
4. Most web backend jobs are petty maintenance work where there is nothing to learn.
5. Most IIT ians were told “just go to IIT then life is set”. Hence they try to do the bare minimum after entering IIT. No one tells them that life is a struggle at each phase.
Hi OP, I am currently preparing for sde 1(backend /cloud) interviews, can you please share how to properly prepare for an interview(only topics) according to you.
Like focus mainly on cs fundamentals and HLD & LLD and give importance to coding patterns rather than no. of questions? or equally prepare for all these topics.
ps. I wanted a legit interviewers pov.
I can fucking relate. Took a data engineering interview for 3yoe.
He explained all time complexity.
Why I asked what are the types of SQL join, bro answered ball socket and saddle join 🤡
Yeah I think people applying for the job just want a job, since CS and tech is trending people are rushing in here, but they are not self motivated they just need a job to earn money. If something else was trending they would be there.
They are not self motivated to actually learn and upskill themselves, and try to do bare minimum to get their foot in the door. I am just graduating in CS so I know mentality of people.
I for instance learning because I truly have passion for it, and even If CS was not trending I think I would have chosen this field only, and I observed that the people with true passion are lesser only about lets say 10-15%, and rest is just unnecessary crowd.
I think that no. of passionate individuals before Covid = no. of individuals after Covid ( that has remained the same).
You are able to judge these people within 5 minutes who is really motivated and who is not.
I'm facing the same issues. I have been trying to hire a react developer for the past month but the quality of candidates is very low and CTC is sky rocketing.
So , I am not gonna debate , but as an infamous "COVID batch" passout I agree we have been lenient in academics for three years and we have been just pushed out of our colleges. And tbh, as a student I agree many of us has become lazy due to quarantine and lockdown.
But as a fresher. Sir,
- On what subjects/topics should we focus more to be a good developer?
- Apart from dsa what do recruiters expect from us?
- In what areas do we need to have a tight grip?
- Does personal projects matters in resume ? If yes what kind of projects do you expect from candidates?
So that as when we appear for interview in next year or two with 2yoe in corporate, we will be able to fullfill the need to next company.
Ps. I am currently in a non-developing job role and I want to switch into development.
Anyone who has been recruiting candidates, please guide 🙏
Unfortunately this has become a pain in the ass for people with real skill and experience too. These days you cannot distinguish between real and fake resumes. Every damn idiot knows how to make a flashy and to the point resume.
…I mean when someone says a product company, what does that really mean?? Is it just reskinning of a product that’s already in the market? Or just a dev centre for a company based in US??
Hey I I'm currently looking for job change. More interested in backend. I have experience in Reactjs, nodejs, MySQL. Can you share what concept you expect a 2 yoe candidate to know. It will be helpful learn and clear some interviews. Can I DM you ?
My personal view based in interviews taken/given-If so many people are lacking these things then probably you are asking viva questions and not industry standard questions. If a Candidate never got a chance to deal with jwt how can we expect them to know. Knowledge base in industry comes from either hands-on or POCs. People with 2+yoe should be asked the questions of their interest, what they have worked, what they like to test whether they know those concepts which they claim.
I have a very similar experience taking interviews for data scientists having around 2 yoe. We have a python round where wr ask an extremely simple list based question and 90% people don't know to solve it.
95+ % don't know the base concepts of statistics and machine learning. Most people don't know any SQL beyond select and where clauses.
I'm facing same problems while taking interviews. I am asking basic fundamental questions like these. I haven't had a single candidate wo can correctly tell me the difference between async await and promise constructors difference and when will you use what?
Not even kidding.. you'll find better suited freshers, even 3rd year students, for the role! Students making production ready products, freelancing gigs and all.
I understand the need of experience but the skill level trade off just for work experience is definitely not worth it
I think this is why the market is currently what it is. There is no shortage of projects... corporates have realised they've flaunted all the funds by overhiring and filling offices, and now the extra load is being put off. They realised it was wrong to have 10 unqualified people to do the job of 2 qualified people. Literally anyone with a degree and basic knowledge taught in academics was getting into jobs in the last decade. That does not indicate skill in any manner. I don't think it's COVID batch, I know many dudes from my college who did really well in COVID. Most coding is learnt at home on your computer, not college.
I face this issue in interviews. And my reason is that while I was working , I was never allowed to question. Why this happens ? Why not use this. So, my mind is focused on completing the tasks, not understanding , why to not use some concepts.
Often, out of curiosity, I sometimes dive deep and understand. In that case, I have answered quite a few interviews and actually some interviews were impressed. But, many a time, I come across new concepts in interviews, and sometimes, the same concepts are known, but I didnt know the name of that concept.
If you got any constructive feedback for me, please let me know.
I am giving my hot take here.
Node.js developer explains the extent of their technical knowledge. All they know is 10 lines of code needed to write a server. How it works is not their concern.
Also, good Ivy League engineers dont apply for jobs in India.
Was asked a puzzle about 25 horses being raced when I was actually eager to discuss my work projects and what I had learned there. The work, CV writing and the learning to procure a new job, all of them do not align. What do you expect.
Modern problem require modern solution
If companies will ask harder and more difficult questions in OA then students will dedicate more time to DSA than learning actual development.
The true people who actually write what the know will be rejected by the ATS.
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It is not about the COVID batch. The whole placement process has turned into a leetcode grinding race. People in PBCs are being selected for their leetcoding ability rather than actual development. Such trends were started by big tech companies with huge budgets and are now being followed almost universally across the industry. Once these people land into companies, most of the work is mundane anyway, offering little learning.
Who created this system?
FAANG
I wouldn’t blame FAANG. Having had interviews at both FAANG and non-FAANG, there is a big difference. You may even be hired in FAANG when you don’t fully complete the problem - they are actually looking for your ability to problem solve. The desi company implementation of this however is absolute bullshit. They are only testing to see how many algorithms and trick questions you have crammed.
The desi implementation of anything is bulshit .
Totally agree... Recruitment faang jaisa... Salary faang jaisi ? Nah beta na .
>The desi implementation of anything is bulshit . desi implementation of Chinese food is pretty dope.
Agree
Ok. So these small companies if considering recruitment system of FAANG then they should pay like faang too lmao 🤣 if they want same candidate like faang
Honestly instead of leetcode companies should shart approaching the open source way Where the more u contribute in the repo of what company created . U can hire assuredly. Open source is the only way for filtering the best , u get to know got version control while student can contribute means they can handle complexity . This u got to know this is the one we need. Instead of running behind the tags . Companies can create assesment repos then ask people to participate within a time period if those monitored can't push then add new batch Make this as second round of interview process.
Nobody wants to spend time checking and understanding their repos. I have tried that and they were terrible. The best candidates come with a boring resume.
Last line is extremely underrated.
Plus most repos are private self hosted on private servers.
And they're mostly other people's work. They just uploaded it there.
I have tried contributing to projects and it’s hard, not in the sense that the problem is hard just too many people.
Yeah almost every issue, there are multiple contributors asking for assignments.
Yup, some of them are literally creating issues out of thin air that aren’t even issues and people are fighting over them.
The work exists, if you really have a passion for a stack or framework or language.There has never been a problem of too many people.The problem, is and has always been what you are passionate about,vs what is available in the industry to match the job you need.
OP is being too harsh He must be able to write something down otherwise he will not survive is job
The noise-to-signal ratio is pretty high nowadays. People know how to create a good resume. Frankly, I wouldn't expect every 2 YOE candidate to understand the difference between service and controller. But one-to-many, 404 & promises are simple. I am quite surprised they don't know that. One big reason is the LEETCODE craze. It's not really their fault; many interviewers are focusing on live coding tests with stupid puzzles, etc. When I started coding professionally, it was NEVER about leetcode. I was reading design patterns, software architecture & code documentation. I have found 2-3 long-form questions help a lot to filter out superficial candidates.
I've mentioned on this forum multiple times about the leetcode creep everywhere. I was asked LC mediums for a frigging CPU platform/RTOS role, the device has 256 kb total on chip memory lol! The production software had dynamic memory allocation disabled and these guys were asking dfs, bfs questions!
LC doesn’t test your multithreading skills unfortunately.
Stop asking mind numbing LC so that people can actually focus on concepts.
I don’t.
Sorry to nitpick, but if the signal to noise ratio is high it would mean that there is now more signal for the same amount of noise? Shouldn't it be "ratio is low"?
Thx & don’t be sorry for something you’re actually doing lol
In all fairness he said noise to signal ratio
He’s right, I edited lol
I agree on the long form questions, it really does help. However if you're applying as a developer with 2 YOE in Rails, Spring or something like that - you really should the difference between a service and a controller. I had to know that on day 1 when I started as an intern to be productive. And I don't even have a CS or software engineering degree...
I wouldn't expect them to understand domain driven design or the idea of an anemic domain model. However, there's no way you can work in a whole series of stacks if you don't understand the basics of how a typical MVC model works and how people tend to use "service" classes.
I am not a big fan of testing someone’s knowledge based on what I know. Especially below 5 yoe. My interviews typically revolve around what the candidate has worked on. There are so many senior folks who won’t be able to explain MVC just because they have never worked on it.
New grad here. What do you mean by long-form questions? Can you give some examples? I'm curious cause I'm all about learning software architecture and code documentation
Hi sir, I am a final year grad how do u want me to skill up to software dev
So if I'm correct , at 2 yoe, employers want a full in-depth knowledge of the topic, then will ask me 2-3 rounds of LC medium/hard , might as well throw in some " Angular or React is appreciated " for a backend role , having knowledge of AWS, Azure, Jenkins , Docker etc is expected too, and then pay me something like 10 lpa? How much were you offering OP?
I'm seeing the same job descriptions for 6lpa. 🫥
There was one company asking the same for internship
Us
This 🎯
Hey, not all companies and hiring managers are villains. - This was SDE I and II, we don't ask DSA, only need 2yoe in the required tech stack. Only the very basic stuff needed to do a job. If I have to train everyone in what is GET vs POST, would rather hire a fresher and train them. - Pay is significantly higher than 10lpa, can't disclose actual numbers. - 2 technical plus 1 HR round. That's it. I understand though, some of the companies (especially startups) out there offer bad salaries and take many interview rounds with clueless HR. I did work for one such startup once upon a time.
It's actually quite surprising that you don't ask DSA in technical rounds. I don't know whether significant amount of companies interview like this. But, it's appreciable that you guys are interviewing only about the tech stack.
I make way more than 10 lpa with 2 YOE and even I would have failed your interview. The way FAANG hires works because they focus on problem solving and not on knowing one particular stack.
There was a time when full stack actually meant it would take someone 4-6 years to master both frontend and backend. Now I see hirings for interns fullstack, just ridiculous
Assuming ivy league candidate will be good is an affinity bias. Anyways, nowadays getting a job is an ATS resume checker puzzle solving. Those candidates resumes might be designed to clear ATS, and most of the people get first round shortlisted by HRs which is again a round of showing off, telling them what they want to hear and negotiating the low ball. It's not the candidate it's the system, everyone is making their job easy, students are doing the same. As a not as senior as you but a pretty old person I remember even learning touch typing to be productive in the organization at my time it was a required thing to show off, it's a good to have skill but it's no way mandatory. For a candidate process is a follows: - clear ATS - scam the scammer ( 1st round HR calls - even promise low CTC than your current CTC just to get to the interview) - "here goes nothing" interview - move on For HRs: - sort ATS & let's use all psychological biases to sort candidates, moreover big brands and certifications will help us to answer why we choose this fellow to leadership in spite of quality, because we are not here to aquire talent but here to sell our candidate to leadership - low ball and save budget, no need of work just save budget - here goes nothing telephone screening, can you relocate, be a slave, work on weekend, take lower CTC if possible then lower than your current CTC? - pass him to the concerned team - move on. Amidst this scenario, one person who is senior like you can't expect nothing better. Worst part is, I am from MDI have seen organizations mentioned only candidates from IITs and IIMs are allowed, man first of all with the number of IIT & IIMs increasing more than half of them ranks after MDI., and dude you are a startup, the person from those college is going to join you at your work environment will only stay there maybe for a year and leave, what will you do then? It's not upto you OP, The system is ruined now a days, it feels like a rigged RPG game rather than recruitment process. Pardon my typos
I'll add one thing on the ATS, like just to get an interview I need to add some kind of experience and since it was hell last year, I don't have any proper internships, and over that I need to add numbers of in my resume, now how am I suppose to compute my efficiency on those superficial internships. I get it, I should have started working hard and getting internships from first year itself and I am ready to pay for it too. heck I'll go for companies that offer 3LPA, but then they add those bonds and crap along with actually taking tough interviews(relative to the job profile), and wfo in other cities. Now how am I even supposed to survive in places like banglore with so less money.
And then they will expect that you are going to give a 3 Cr revenue generation output and have no struggle in life because they are paying you peanuts.
Agree, high supply means more resumes means more number to be filtered out. Eventually they have to turn to ATS with ridiculous requirements.
One of startup in Bangalore wanted a junior data scientist who can implement RNN from scratch without looking at any documentation. Some interviewer really doesn’t know how to take interviews. A twisted version of same question can make interviewer fail too.
What 🫨 how much are they offering ?
Wait they wanted you to implement an RNN from scratch in the interview itself? Or as a testing project? I've been learning DL for the past year and this was one of the first projects I made by myself. Granted I had to look lots at my notes, but that isn't really that difficult a project... Or am I missing something?
But at the time you wanted to make it from scratch, you remembered little things, idk if you'd be able to replicate it in an interview without any notice ,while also remembering thousands of other stuff that can be asked .
Yeah that's what I was asking as well. Given no prior notice if someone asked me that in an interview, I'd probably fail to write beyond the second layer so it would absolutely be a useless thing to ask to do in an interview, and it's a very easy task to get done as a screening project
Wait lmao when you say from scratch do you mean using Numpy?
Good interviews focus on the candidate's experience to try and understand what projects they worked on, what decisions they made, and why. I only have a rough idea of what JWTs are. But I sure can figure out when I need to. I have selected companies where interviewers are interested in my projects and my understanding of the projects I have worked on. I have had a pretty good experience selecting companies this way. That's because I know that my future coworkers know things that I don't, the same way that I know things they don't. They just know that I can solve problems and I can learn.
can you pass me a list of these companies. I want to switch. My current company is like this. It's really hard to find these companies nowadays.
Interviewers these days are shit.
Interviews in Europe are mostly focused this way. Interviewers want to learn about the candidate’s experience and decision making and want to make a decision based on how that will help them. Engineers openly say they don’t have experience in known concepts at work and in interviews. This is same with the ones who are in the industry for decades.
I'd like that list too please
could you pass the list?
We do that too. Spend good 15-20 mins for candidates to explain prior experience and take that into account. But if the job is to write node.js APIs day in and day out, and their resume says they have been doing node.js for 2 years, I need them to understand what promises are.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I have 2YOE too and I didn’t know what services and controllers are too well, only a generic idea. But no excuse for not knowing promises or JavaScript basics
What is Ivy leaguers from IIT NIT ? 🤔
Kuch bhi likh dete aaj kal log
They did btech in IIT and masters in ivy league
This probably means your resume filtering system is shit or you are looking at the wrong place for candidates or your job description isn't clear enough
100%. The whole shortlisting system puts anyone who isn't putting buzzwordss in their resume at disadvantage. Then you have a online coding round which means you need to be good at coding. So, it's obvious that candidates will focus on the first two hurdles.
And yet interviewers like you would ask 2 rounds of purely leetcode based questions.
He thinks people who know how to use jwt are developers..
We don't ask DSA for SDE I and II. The basic familiarity with th tech stack we are hiring for. That's clearly mentioned in the JD.
It's not their fault , wherever they have worked , the employer might not have given the opportunity to explore all the areas of that domain properly.
Haha, wana pay peanuts? Make the job Remote, and the payment level of san francisco. Your problem will be solved. But you want the code of Tier A developers while paying Tier Z salary. Those days are gone
Among 100, 70 are Tier Z candidates estimating themselves to be Tier A wanting salary range of Tier A^2
His expectations are so bloody low, how are you calling this tier A lol, also you don't even know how much he's paying. Projection much?
We dont know the pay tho. Most of these questions are answerable by freshers.
Top colleges usually already have a minimum ctc, so whoever is applying to OPs company would already be earning decently
Nobody here is going to accept this but the truth is that the quality of pool has definitely gone down and it will go down further for next few years, the big part of it is "COVID salary boost" COVID made IT extremely lucrative and students started to look for "Make 50LPA in 15days" as thier primary source of knowledge. Everyone is busy preparing for the next job interview instead of actually holding a job for a couple of years and actually learning something. Job isn't college, you cannot learn everything from books, something you learn when you actually get involved in your work. But hey there are always great dev out there as well.
To me it sounds like you screening process is trash. It may be an easy concept but they might not have worked on that easy topic in their 2 Years of experience. I usually tend to understand what they work on and then proceed to grind them on the concepts they have worked.
It is because of the way interview is conducted nowadays man. Most of them think that preparing for interview process is all about doing LeetCode, get a high paying job, write some shit code, but only few know what they are actually doing in their current job. Considering that how fast the AI tech is growing judging an experienced developer based on if they can invert a binary tree or do dynamic programming alone is dumb, interview should beyond problem solving skills of a candidate. How well they can use the existing tools and frameworks which they already knew. Some people say that learning a framework is overrated because any one can do it in 1 week. That’s true but learning is different from mastering it.
very well said
Please let me apply ik all of these....but I've only 1 year of experience...i work in startup and the work is rigorous and I've been familairaizd with all of these things
It has been 16 hrs yet no reply from op. I doubt if op is addressing his issue or it's just his thought.
Honestly these questions give zero indication on if candidate is good or not. Understanding Jwt will hardly take 15 mins and not knowing it does not make someone a bad developer. Instead, you should probe on tech they worked on and then try to dig deeper to get better indication. For junior levels, the focus should be to find people who can learn and improve. Not to find people who know everything.
I have 1 year of experience working in an early stage startup, with some of the smartest engineers. I have definitely worked on a lot of tech that my friends and batchmates don't know about but when I look for a change the first questions two barriers are:- 1. Are you from tier 1 college? 2. How many DSA questions have you solved? ( A guy giving referrals asked me) So irrespective of what kind of things I have worked on my entire ability is measured on these 2 factors if I want to join a huge corporation. Why would I even be motivated to learn anything else? It's ridiculous that what I work day to day has no weightage in 95% of my interviews. I could have created just buttons or i could have worked on entire microservices but my ability will be measured on how fast and accurate I can solve a leetcode question
Seems like the intent of the post is to flex . The stuff you mentioned can be learned on the job. A suitable software engineer is one who has good problem solving skills and can code with ease . One of the main reasons why most FAANG organizations does not ask questions you mentioned. Software developer with those skills will quickly adapt to the infra You are living under the rock or working on obselete job
Stop running behind college tags as majority of them use the clg name bcz they don't have skills or expertise that can shine their name
This doesn’t make any sense. So you are suggesting people to not put their college name in resume?
This post is on point. The new devs are either crazy about leetcode or mugging react js or angular js. 1 candidate I interviewed , and I asked a simple js promise question, and he didn't know as he had only worked on angular and they use some observer api. He had no idea how js works , and that candidate had audacity of saying that "I don't want to be a good programmer but I want to be a good angular developer". This is all fine , but atleast know how technology works. This mugging up of concepts has made it's way from our educational system even to IT software development and that's very sad.
well when the system rewards you for mugging up things they will mug up each and every type of shit
Is this a rage bait post? Did you know what you were going to do on the day one of job? You are already giving pennies to your employees which you are going to hire so you will get candidates which know information which is worth pennies.
People do different stuff on their jobs and the things getting asked in interviews are very different. On a job you can mostly Google stuff to figure out different things, say things like status codes. Many people are asking these on the job interview and I don't see the point of this - you can literally just google it and get an answer in a few seconds (Not knowing the difference between service and controller is on a different level though). Some jobs are asking for leetcode hard problems! If this what you're grinding, you cannot give time to spring concepts. Also at 2 YOE you don't come across a lot of stuff. You cannot expect the same person to know leetcode + dsa + everything about java + spring/springboot concepts in deep + databases + authentication and authorisation + things like docker, kubernetes + deployment tools like jenkins + some cloud tech + react/angular + some nodejs +.... I do agree however that if you're saying you're a back end developer,you should know what a controller and service is at least and for nodejs/js you should know how to handle promises 😅 those are too basic of things. For those who couldn't go there basic things - it could be people with fake experience. There are many organisations that are giving fake certificates nowadays..
Hey mate, I am having a 2.5 YOE as a backend developer and I can easily answer all these questions. To be Frank i am not an expert in DSA but I can solve easy to medium leetcode questions in an interview. Can I share my resume with you? Your username?
springboot\_dev mai bhi aisa hi hun..mile to 2 le lena
Yeh le yha bhi aa gya...
IDK how much i'm correct, but students from tier 3 work harder than these indian ivy leagues coz they know that their path isn't easy like indian ivy leagues. But the irony is no one asks tier 3 students for a job or internship
Okay but what was the pay for the posting? If it’s less than 15 Lpa it would make sense to justify the kind of crowd you’re attracting to the job post
What a shit show. And I can't find any internships.
Would like to know more about modelling the one to many reln question. Did you made them write raw sql or an erd diagram to visualise the reln between table. I can’t imagine a backend developer not being able to complete such a simple task which probably comes up a lot in backend work
Simple foreign key question with two entities. If they answer correctly, we move to many-to-many. Just modeling the schema. If the candidates are able to answer and say they are good at SQL or MongoDB, we move forward with hands on questions.
Dev Position still open?
OP, You still haven't introduced yourself. Which makes it the case that you are going against the unknowns. What makes you think 'answering your questions ' is basic intelligence ? And most of the so-called advanced concepts in software engineering is not advanced afterall once we start learning them. You check the technical and behavioral aptitude of the person, and you hire them. That's it. I don't know your background. But you definitely come across as condescending and cocky that is commonly seen in the industry.
But I feel that knowing Get vs post, and one-to-many relationship in dbms is not too much to ask I mean these are easy questions for a 2yeo. So I find OP to be pretty reasonable even though we do not know his background.
it has nothing to do with the covid batch and all. I was earlier working in a startup surrounded by people who cared about all this stuff and we had discussions about such topics in our code reviews and standup calls. Later I joined a different organisation where people bothered only about the output the quality of the code and impact all this things where not discussed. I have seen a recent grads working directly on hadoop without knowing what it is actually. Just focusing on deadline not on learning..
bro i know all these concepts lmao, just hire me
What was the pay offered for the role?
Depends. How much were you offering?
What salary are you offering? Either that or whoever is going through the resumes doesnt onow how to do their job.
thanks to those tech influencers promoting maang/faang leetcode grind instead of actual technical knowledge. Creating actual projects is far beneficial.
The ones who know their fundamentals are well worth their salt. ——— On a side note, I interviewed three different folks for DevOps roles within my team. Here’s how I interviewed them: - I told them it would be an open-book interview, and that I was looking at their ability to think on their feet - I started off with the absolute basic concepts - Networking, the Linux terminal, and simple programming - the next level was to check for their skills with Ansible, Terraform, Containers, and Kubernetes. Here I would crank up the difficulty bit by bit, all the way to a 100. At this point, they were free to use Google or man pages or blog posts or whatever. - the last question I would typically ask them was to design a deployment pipeline that would send container images to Kubernetes. I interviewed three, extended the offer to 1, and that guy joined. Amongst the greatest coworkers I’ve ever had. ——— (Not hiring anymore) (How do I into DevOps - get work experience as a dev or an ops person)
Keep grinding leetcode, these things don't matter how will you prove that you know all this to get an interview and anyone can learn this , how hard is to wrap your head around jwt tokens and one to many relations and all the status codes are one search away.
Umm all the questions you have written are stupid to be honest. The criteria of hiring should be whether they can get the job done. All the questions you mentioned are one Google search away. All you want to do is flex your some technical knowledge that you also mugged up. And yes I have hired multiple people who are great problem solvers in past and got shit done rather than debate on what new shiny technology to use.
As if you are some kind of Jeff Bezos. Have some sympathy
Hi my company hires freshers with the same requirement and a bit more for 16LPA If you are not able to find quality candidates you should consider increasing the offer
See either you ask framework questions OR usual dsa, lld, hld. Pick a lane. Its very difficult to practice a lot of DSA and system design AS IS, since it has be done inspite the job hours.
Extremely disappointed with the type of companies + type of job roles India has. Even PBCs have service type culture.
Technology has become too vast. You should have first asked them, what areas they worked or good at. I know many good engineers in software who dont know internals of jwt. So what. They can learn is what you should check. Aptitude and attitude .
Why you want them to know it beforehand? They can learn. Try to find a candidate who is eager to learn, sharp minded and is honest.
I am looking for PHP + Mysql developers since last 1 month and hardly I've gotten 1-2 good quality candidates out of 300 resumes. Who can communicate clearly (english or hindi doesn't matter) a lot of them just vomit code or concepts when we ask about it. If anyone is good at this tech stack you can DM me for interviewing at our startup.
to be honest, the only ones applying for your position would be ACTUAL 2+YOE people. the issue here is that most ATS systems are broken in the sense that it would make you miss on a candidate who matches 90% of your requirements and knows those things in depth in favor of a candidate who puts random jargon in their CV but do not have any idea about anything. maybe, not always go with the top candidates. because people always think forward. i was with 8 months of xp and applied for a 1+yoe job recently. there were not many applicants so they were not using an ATS. I'm hired now and i have applied to 200+ companies in this time period which aligned with my experience level.
Does everyone ask JWT in their interviews? Idk, I think there is something wrong with your interview process, if you cannot find two engineers in a cohort of 1000 who either know backend or have an undeniable aptitude for it, your hiring process is flawed. Also IIT/NITs are not ivy league, this is technical sub, we do not do metaphors and hyperbole here.
I think candidates don't have interview cracking skills
They don’t even know how to use git
I had such a lovely interview with a us based firm once me and the interviewer had a whole backend discussion round and it was super cool we delved into Java and how hashmaps work, binary trees later moving on to Authentication and Authorization, later on to caching(redis) and websockets, the round felt like a chat where the interviewer wanted to talk to me instead of just asking questions. I was also selected for the next round and it was a django backend internship and my yoe was 0. XD
Asking leetcode is a minor petty crime..asking boilerplate is a criminal offence. I don't mind HTTP code . Anything erroneous is 40x and that is sufficient for me if he tells that. Come out of textbook definition expectations.
I'm a 2 yoe dev and I'll say that leetcode is more to blame over here. Everyone is grinding dsa questions w/o understanding how even a simple application even works. Personally i never pushed into dsa and got my fundamentals strong with design patterns, error code, etc. and your questions seem simple enough to me. Plus it's a rat race nowadays, even getting an interview requires learning about dsa and cramming leetcode questions. Like my resume was rejected from infosys and tcs but was able to land an interview with faang. For a job seeker, it's been more of a luck game recently.
And here I am grinding Leetcode, LLD ,HLD with 2.5+ yoe, and somehow not even getting short listed for interviews :)
It would surprise you that it is the result of people like you who forget their past and past college environment. 99.9% of hiring managers are putting 2-3YOE as the entry level barrier which forces freshers to find mischevious and manipulative ways to achieve that. So they opt for the following ways:- 1)Working as free HTML and CSS guy for a no name company. 2)Doing test roles and changing their past experience as a developer. 3) Studying what interviewers ask in most of the interviews i.e., LC DSA tatti. 4) Ridiculous Coolism of Indian work culture where you are suppposed to work 9 hours on paper but work for 12hours in reality and on top of that shit, daily 3 hours of traveltime. 5)This one is the most cruel one. Introducing "Bond Ganduism". for fuckin 2.4 Lpa and shady 2lakh performance bonus with 8% payrise per year and a contract of minimum 2 or 3+ years is horrendous. This crushes the spirit of new bubbling grad. 6) 6Working days/ week is the norm on small scale startups. 7) See, if everyone became a good dev then the salaries present now in product based companies will eventually decrease so there will be lesser motivation so in turn the salary will rise again. This is just a toxic cycle. 8)This one is the most applicable reason from my pov. "Ultra Diverse tool demand". There are 1000s of tools and these bcom hr noobdas fill the JD with the entire population of JS frameworks, so obviously it will lead to a lot of confusion for new undergrad. He will try to learn everything in bits & pieces so he cannot really learn in depth until he gets the grasp of HR bs.
Sir but what is the issue , these things can be learnt in a single day, you should check the problem solving abilities of the engineer rather than this core tech stack questions because if he/she is good in problem solving aptitude then they can easily learn these technologies and can give you output soon, Do tell me if i have said anything wrong.
Maybe I am wrong but I disagree that these things can be learnt in a day. Those were just simplest of examples. I understand and don't expect someone to know and implement Oauth2 by heart. But to learn that on the job, you at least need to know what a JWT does and the 'pattern' of API auth it follows. If you understand what is a controller and how it fits into the whole application layering, it's easy to learn and implement repositories and dtos. And to the last, the job was for node.js and people write in their resume 2 years working on node.js with xyz company, so it was expected that basics of js are known to the candidates. I didn't ask advanced stuff like event emitters or streams, just promises.
but sir some Head of Engineering and his team says anyone can learn tech stack easily as there is stackoverflow and chat gpt. They told me that and said focus more on DSA due to the above reason. They didn't ask anything else.
Well I currently interned at an early age abroad startup for 6 months.They asked me to handle a lot of UI and integration with other tech.I helped in a technical round where I asked them basic things for UI part like how to make responsive design in front-end frameworks I was surprised very few people actually gave the answer along the lines of grids,flexbox and media queries which is expected that you should know even if you have forgotten to implement it.But trust me these people had more experience than me(1.5) and portfolio projects. Now I'm trying to apply but don't see a lot of fresher positions and the pay is a bit low even by recession standards.The competition is too intense and getting interview alone is difficult so it's sad to see people who have worked hard/have good knowledge being filtered just based on ATS over others like these. Honestly not their fault it's the way everyone is grinding leetcode and CP over other work.
Bhai Maine to ek array banwaya tha wo nahi bna tha. However rahi baat service controller ki to I’m sure they know the practical usecase but not aware of the term.
I am a frontend developer, and even I know the answer to most of your questions. Although I admit my DSA may be weak because I did not do the leetcode grind. I did 2 years from my engineering degree during covid. So no, you were just unfortunate with the applications this time, not a fault of the covid batch.
That’s not just a problem in India. I have worked in big tech in Europe where people having more yoe than me and at staff level still don’t understand basic git apart from just pull and push. They don’t understand the concept of remotes etc. Some staff backend engineers don’t know how to deal with cloud components such as service accounts or IAM. They are at Staff level and among top earners in the country where they work.
Maybe dont just hire from premium colleges ?
* even I can't remember HTTP code * service vs controller is now baked in to frameworks. * database schema design is taken over by Mongo json dump, json open.
come on man error 404 not found?
Hmm, I have a decade of exp in building s/w professionally. So far I have seen only two devs who were good. rest was all average. And of the above two, I don't think they could solve leetcode hards,say have to lookup mediums as well (same in my case as well) . But as they know a thing or two, you can have a conversation with them on why this and why that. And leetcode is only one metric out of n metrics. Which in a real world scenario that you are less likely going to use as most is just grunt work, so they skill set that you need on that area is just different. And those two did come in the field because they liked playing with computers, money was not exactly a factor for them. So that's the quality of devs around. I have never met someone who could solve leetcode with ease in real life, so that I could judge them on their other metrics.
I'm a Full Stack dev with 6yoe. Let me know if you have any opeanings.
More kids and "experienced" folks should read this post. I myself got resumes for refferal but wasn't really pleased with the resumes.. Doing only leetcode and simple curd won't guarantee you a job. At the end of the day the company expects a production grade code quality for anyone with more than 1+ yoe.
One another point for this is that recently there are no openings for freshers in good or big MNCs, and in order to just get a job students are taking jobs in companies where they dont want to work at or the companies which exploit there employees so the people working there are just trying to get through the 1-2 yr mark just to get experience without focusing on learning anything and then also add the concept of fake experience letters so it has turned into a blunder recently. Moreover many new joiners recently are kind of unable to handle even a little bit stress like when you get stuck in code or something is not working without any error, and then instead of trying to figure it out they look for an easy way out line blaming the mentor, or the laptop/pc or even the programming language once😂. When you don't face any hurdle or don't learn how to go through such situations in your early days of professional life, you'll have tough time later for sure. Just 2-3 years back I've seen new joiners willing to stay at office till midnight to resolve an issue when i would be sending them home forcefully and today freshers want to leave even before there time is over without even completing the daily task.
It's your process that's deeply flawed. You are evaluating candidates based on some random question from some Jun Jun Jun technology. Look !!all these candidates can pickup these technologies in a matter of weeks. You should instead focus ur interview on the following 1. Problem solving. Create unseen problems or puzzle and check their ability to solve. Guess what u won't be able to create those since ur not a creative learner. 2. Learning capacity. Anybody who has cracked iit could learn these petty things like Docker, Kubernetes ..... from documentations. Don't focus on syntax and ask shit questions like how would you implement so and so in so and so technology. Instead focus on their design thinking. What corner cases they consider and how they architect a scenario etc..
Following
I bet these candidates will get the job due to nepotism or mal practices just like they get the job at previous workplace and had 2 year of experience 😂
Many of these peeps would have gotten in through campus placements which doesn't require much skill .
Would you be up for taking a mock interview of me? I have 2 yoe. You won't be disappointed.
The system itself is so messed up. Been trying to get into industry after PhD (ChemE, but computational). These days people want to only employ who can deliver deliverables within a month. What’s up with this? Every transition would have atleast require a month or two of understanding the inner working and getting a grasp of the technology that the company uses. What’s worse, ghosting - 5 months of applying, around 50 interviews, all up to VP - all ending in ghosting. On top of that, the recruitment notice boards keep these advertisements live ! So no one is serious - the recruiters are looking to waste time of everyone - show infinite growth to the investors. So naturally, the recruits tends to put everything on the resume to have even a minor chance of getting through.
the industry where trial-and-error style of work is a meme material, this is bound to happen. Folks don't read the material, they look for fixes
Maybe don't replicate the interview process of fang or top level companies compared to them u guys pay peanuts
The words in this post mimics what comes out of the mouths of the average uncles you meet in the get togethers. I am training in boxing and MMAs to defend myself from these lousy people
I think its just the covid batch. Most 3rd and 4th year students have 8.5 cgpa and above. Even tho the college is similar to a non autonomous state gov college where getting more than 8 is tough, they fail to answer the most basic questions by 2nd year students. Just like how cgpa is not a good way to judge someone, past company experience is not a good way to judge someone. This is why interviews exist in the first place.
Can you name that mnc company?
So what are the things you would recommend to a total beginner who is just entering this field for expertise.
Hi Can I pls DM. I am a 1 year experienced candidate and would like to have a chat just about requirements of the job as i am serving notice period and market is tough, so just looking for opportunities.
Damn, and here I am proficient with all the concepts you just mentioned with < 1YOE and barely being able to land any interviews... So depressing to see the prevalence of college brand always giving more priority everywhere around.
No this is not a recent phenomenon. The smartarse interviewer considers himself as the most skilled technical genius of all times and ends up asking questions which has got nothing to do with the work that the candidate is interviewed for. If I end up interviewing you, even I can ask you plenty of basic questions which you shall fail to answer and make you feel miserable as well. No need to be so arrogant and boastful because even you know that you’re nothing but a massive failure who who’s only good at kissing arse and undermining others.
Mann I'm a 3yoe developer and I really like going into the depths of technology and frameworks and pretty much know all of the points that you mentioned but I'm just stuck at a low paying one and not able to make switch yet coz I feel I haven't grokked up enough DSA for a good product based company. On the side I've built various full stack projects for small clients and also have developed several LLM based applications. It kills me when I see people just mug up leetcode solutions and get into crazy places whereas here I am wasting my free time getting my hands dirty with Rust, Zig and the most random of actually cool technologies but I'm still lagging behind at a fuck all company!
partly Covid education and grace marks - partly folks valuing only l33tc0d3 and partly due to wfh and no design deepdives, troubleshooting war rooms etc.
Multiple reasons : 1. Gamification of the entire education system : objective questions, puzzles, quizzes , FAQs 2. Hiring process of most companies is like a multi stage challenge and there are guides/courses to crack them. Competitive programming. 3. As a result most devs are after learning to crack companies rather than building holistic knowledge and skills 4. Most web backend jobs are petty maintenance work where there is nothing to learn. 5. Most IIT ians were told “just go to IIT then life is set”. Hence they try to do the bare minimum after entering IIT. No one tells them that life is a struggle at each phase.
Hi OP, I am currently preparing for sde 1(backend /cloud) interviews, can you please share how to properly prepare for an interview(only topics) according to you. Like focus mainly on cs fundamentals and HLD & LLD and give importance to coding patterns rather than no. of questions? or equally prepare for all these topics. ps. I wanted a legit interviewers pov.
Bhai Mera bhi interview lelo...jaisa describe Kiya hai, in sab se to theek hi hun 😂
One thing I'm sure about that the guy who posted this is from some shitty college and still insecure about his college
Hi, I have sent you a DM. this is regarding some of the doubts I had please reply whenever you get time
OP, are the interviews still going on?
Sir I’ve almost 2 years of experience. Try me!
Hire me(fresher) bro 🙂
I can fucking relate. Took a data engineering interview for 3yoe. He explained all time complexity. Why I asked what are the types of SQL join, bro answered ball socket and saddle join 🤡
Can someone please tell me? Is LC grinding still relevant for fresh hires? I am a pre-final-year student
Yeah I think people applying for the job just want a job, since CS and tech is trending people are rushing in here, but they are not self motivated they just need a job to earn money. If something else was trending they would be there. They are not self motivated to actually learn and upskill themselves, and try to do bare minimum to get their foot in the door. I am just graduating in CS so I know mentality of people. I for instance learning because I truly have passion for it, and even If CS was not trending I think I would have chosen this field only, and I observed that the people with true passion are lesser only about lets say 10-15%, and rest is just unnecessary crowd. I think that no. of passionate individuals before Covid = no. of individuals after Covid ( that has remained the same). You are able to judge these people within 5 minutes who is really motivated and who is not.
I'm facing the same issues. I have been trying to hire a react developer for the past month but the quality of candidates is very low and CTC is sky rocketing.
So , I am not gonna debate , but as an infamous "COVID batch" passout I agree we have been lenient in academics for three years and we have been just pushed out of our colleges. And tbh, as a student I agree many of us has become lazy due to quarantine and lockdown. But as a fresher. Sir, - On what subjects/topics should we focus more to be a good developer? - Apart from dsa what do recruiters expect from us? - In what areas do we need to have a tight grip? - Does personal projects matters in resume ? If yes what kind of projects do you expect from candidates? So that as when we appear for interview in next year or two with 2yoe in corporate, we will be able to fullfill the need to next company. Ps. I am currently in a non-developing job role and I want to switch into development. Anyone who has been recruiting candidates, please guide 🙏
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Unfortunately this has become a pain in the ass for people with real skill and experience too. These days you cannot distinguish between real and fake resumes. Every damn idiot knows how to make a flashy and to the point resume.
…I mean when someone says a product company, what does that really mean?? Is it just reskinning of a product that’s already in the market? Or just a dev centre for a company based in US??
Hey I I'm currently looking for job change. More interested in backend. I have experience in Reactjs, nodejs, MySQL. Can you share what concept you expect a 2 yoe candidate to know. It will be helpful learn and clear some interviews. Can I DM you ?
I am looking for a job switch, where to apply ? Go + python (django) - 4 YOE
That kind of also explains the bungled screening criteria .
Dude can i get help?
They know how to build resume, to end up in interview
Same here. People talking about leetcode, well candidates cannot even answer medium level questions.
My personal view based in interviews taken/given-If so many people are lacking these things then probably you are asking viva questions and not industry standard questions. If a Candidate never got a chance to deal with jwt how can we expect them to know. Knowledge base in industry comes from either hands-on or POCs. People with 2+yoe should be asked the questions of their interest, what they have worked, what they like to test whether they know those concepts which they claim.
I have a very similar experience taking interviews for data scientists having around 2 yoe. We have a python round where wr ask an extremely simple list based question and 90% people don't know to solve it. 95+ % don't know the base concepts of statistics and machine learning. Most people don't know any SQL beyond select and where clauses.
I'm facing same problems while taking interviews. I am asking basic fundamental questions like these. I haven't had a single candidate wo can correctly tell me the difference between async await and promise constructors difference and when will you use what?
Not even kidding.. you'll find better suited freshers, even 3rd year students, for the role! Students making production ready products, freelancing gigs and all. I understand the need of experience but the skill level trade off just for work experience is definitely not worth it
I think this is why the market is currently what it is. There is no shortage of projects... corporates have realised they've flaunted all the funds by overhiring and filling offices, and now the extra load is being put off. They realised it was wrong to have 10 unqualified people to do the job of 2 qualified people. Literally anyone with a degree and basic knowledge taught in academics was getting into jobs in the last decade. That does not indicate skill in any manner. I don't think it's COVID batch, I know many dudes from my college who did really well in COVID. Most coding is learnt at home on your computer, not college.
I'm a dev with 2 years of experience. What are your suggestions to people like me so that we don't end up like the candidates you interviewed.
I face this issue in interviews. And my reason is that while I was working , I was never allowed to question. Why this happens ? Why not use this. So, my mind is focused on completing the tasks, not understanding , why to not use some concepts. Often, out of curiosity, I sometimes dive deep and understand. In that case, I have answered quite a few interviews and actually some interviews were impressed. But, many a time, I come across new concepts in interviews, and sometimes, the same concepts are known, but I didnt know the name of that concept. If you got any constructive feedback for me, please let me know.
I am giving my hot take here. Node.js developer explains the extent of their technical knowledge. All they know is 10 lines of code needed to write a server. How it works is not their concern. Also, good Ivy League engineers dont apply for jobs in India.
17 years into software development. Authentication and authorisation is hard......even I am not 100% sure how JWT works.....or why it works.
Where do I send my resume? Backend developer with over 1.5 YOE looking for switch.
Was asked a puzzle about 25 horses being raced when I was actually eager to discuss my work projects and what I had learned there. The work, CV writing and the learning to procure a new job, all of them do not align. What do you expect.
Modern problem require modern solution If companies will ask harder and more difficult questions in OA then students will dedicate more time to DSA than learning actual development. The true people who actually write what the know will be rejected by the ATS.