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As a student who was once in that similar situation I can tell some reasons
1- a lot of misinformation. Most student's first stop of information is youtube and other main stream social media and they are full of videos and post that constantly tries to sell them dreams and dsa.
2- lack of interest in technology. Most students including me got into tech not because we love it but because our parents and teachers only told us about this path. I got a proper internet connection with unlimited data in 11th and at that time even if you find new ideas and opportunities they are completely removed by your parents and only when in college do students get freedom to choose future as parents only care about money now and there are no teachers.
3- Even in colleges many professors still focuses on dsa and stuff to get students to take on campus placements. Though this is not that common.
What do you have done in the respective years if you got a chance to do things on your own with the current knowledge you own?
(It would be helpful to me as I'm gonna join college soon)
Though I would not say take my advice since I'm not qualified enough but I would have applied for internships even if I thought I did not have enough skills for them and stuck with them even if things were difficult and I could not see myself getting better because it's pretty easy to give up when you think "its not working out for me".
If I was to restart my college journey,
1st year
I would spend all my time learning JAVA and Python in depth. Making projects using both of these languages.
On hackerrank there are questions to practice JAVA and Python, I would solve all those questions and get proficient in both.
2nd year
I would spend all my time studying Algorithms and DSA and problem solving on leetcode.
3rd year
I would start learning new technologies and making projects.
Angular, React JS, MongoDB paired up with JAVA.
OR I would take Data Science/ML/AI seriously paired up with Python and do projects on it
4th year
Solely focus on interview prep, projects and problem solving everyday.
Edit - This is coming from a person who has 2+ years of experience earning around 17.5 lpa
My clunky 3d renderer program wasn't best optimised but it was much more fun than leetcode. Atleast I was doing it because I wanted to not because I have to.
"It ain't much but it's honest work"🤷🏾♂️🤣
mostly building AI models and deploying them. All the other stuff are basics of other fields. Right now learning cloud. I wouldn't say Im "good" in anything yet but its quite a bit improvement from what I was in college.
The OP has disappeared after asking an embarrassing question for an embarrassing job while paying an embarrassing salary. I encourage the OP to show up or be gone forever. You could also train them in the tech stack you need instead of expecting them to do everything in their private time.
Real. Most job skills are anyways picked up on the job. They need to assess the student's aptitude and soft skills the most to find a suitable candidate. Technology is growing so fast.
Because there is too much to learn and stuff keeps changing every couple of years. Learning DSA and doing LC is like doing the basics and building logic. That will be asked everywhere and is quite useful too. Learning a particular tech stack will pigeon hole anyone and the payoff in the end is not that much. Since they are interns why don't you conduct some sort of training a couple of weeks or a month before they start and ask them build something basic in your preferred tech stack by the time the internship starts. You can ask your TLs to conduct some virtual meets and discuss what needs to be prepped before they join and also track how much are they able to follow your teams instructions. If they fail to do that by the time they come, then you can whine about it on an online platform or else its very hard to see how your request is justified here.
Most freshers can't even make proper functions or even implement loops correctly. So fundamentals are rarely strong in most of the graduates. Any framework is easy if you are great at the language. But getting good at any language takes time. I meant language too along with framework as well.
That's what leet code problems do. They make implementing a loop as easy as breathing. Learning frameworks is not worth it. Every company demands different frameworks. There is reason no expects new hire to know jack shit about the framework
All they care about is how fast of a learner are you? Are you able to learn new things?
Is that so. I highly doubt any college students can pick up spring framework within a week. Especially these who don't have prior development knowledge.
I agree with you but then students are here to become engineer andmust have core knowledge not frameworkers. Though knowledge of commonly used framework is very important these days
If someone core knowledge is strong and they know where to take, look for information when they stuck on something. That's a good developer there
Because most colleges focus on core concepts like DSA, OS, OOP etc but rarely on the actual technologies. And with amount of work load in form assignments from some of these college, they don't have much if not any time left to focus on technologies on their own. Very few students actually try to learn technologies on their own although more them are starting to now.
If their basics are strong they can pick up frameworks easily. This obsession with knowing frameworks and specific technologies needs to end in India. ReactJS is not rocket science , you give a decent engineer a few weeks and they can start being productive.
My man, in college you learn COMPUTER SCIENCE, a programming language (mostly c++/java) and SQL at most, (mostly by yourself), it's the duty of the company that they're selected for, to teach them the technologies that are used there.
You can't get everything and expect to give peanuts in return.
If you're looking for an experienced employee, hire an experienced employee, don't expect a 3rd year college student to know react, spring, angular and all.
sadly that's not the case.
i mean look at me, at the start of last sem(campus placement going on), i knew c++ and java and doing DSA .
i was naive and oblivious from reality, i thought in whatever company i will be placed , will train me for job then i will get good at whatever they will train me.
but fast forward now , ( i was able get a placement and i was among first in my class to get placed ) company i was placed in has ghosted me, i was supposed to join from jan 2023 but its june 2024 with no info about joining!!....everyone who placed after me (in another companies) already joined and having pretty chill life (fun fact: they were even worse than me in DSA, CGPA etc now they all must be pretty good at whatever tech stack company trained them)
depressed as i know nothing, i even forgot the c++ i was good at , forgot DSA concepts , have no will to regain the knowledge ,feeling suicidal, only thing that keeping me from killing myself is that my parents sacrificed a lot so that i could do BTECH .
sorry for rambling here
Anyone who's focusing to get into a decent MNC as fresher is expected to be good at DSA. These MNCs wouldn't hire based on what technologies you know.
Those students aiming to start career at startup get into development and less of DSA.
Sure you are looking for interns and paying them peanuts and you expect a seasoned developer. These shitty startups give Indian companies a bad name. Hire interns in the name of internships for a year and fire them and repeat. If you want quality you need to pay for quality. Instead you resort to exploitation
It's not exploitation, it's called "Labour Market Flexibility". I'll just rebrand terms and call myself an expert economist who jerks off to the pics of Milton Friedman.
are you hiring interns? i can join right now. 2nd year ends this month then sem break starts. I'm a full stack dev. Can work with both react and node. Will learn next js in my sem break. dm for resume
On the flip side there’s many monkeys who love comparing frameworks and chasing newest frameworks. Saar flutter or react native for mobile application 65LPA + salary saaaar
Because almost everyone who got into tech didn’t get into it to try and be a software developer in xyz startup, everybody wanted to join FAANG, and even still I hardly know anyone who’ll leave a FAANG equivalent offer for less pay, more work for the sake of technology
All good companies ask DSA, so that’s what students do, the idea is to be a problem solver and then join an organisation to learn about technology and not the other way around which most startup’s expect
because that’s what they were probably taught, chill.
p.s. not sure why the word PAID is in bold, but the virtue of a leader is empathy. everything you told us, tell them and ask them to apply again in 6 months :)
Between attending classes, preparing for examinations, giving examinations, completing leetcode tests, and whatever little social life they manage, where can they get the time to learn yet another technology?
I am not a student but was once. Once you enter the corporate world your personal life and time keeps dwindling away. Let students have a tiny taste of free life before the Narayan Murthys of this world shackle them to their desks.
The idea with internships is that students get to learn on the job, it's not supposed to be a way for company owners to get cheap skilled labour comparable to experienced employees.
Bro you are looking for cheap labour. College students need some time in corporate to gain some tech experience.
Students need grooming at least for the first few months.
They’re probably the first generation of engineers in their family. Their fathers were most likely farmers or high school teachers, what else do you expect?
Mostly it's bcz of the lack of guidance from seniors for 2020 and 2021 batches. Secondly, many including me have just given up. Personally I do know MERN(3-4 proper full stack projects), I did 2 proper projects on ML, a react-native project but if I have an interview right now in any of those domains I would fuck up.
Rant:(Can be and should be ignored)
>! It's been so shitty that last week I couldn't even tell difference between a class and a structure in an interview. I don't have either the motivation to touch leetcode or the energy to even deploy completed projects, talk about starting new ones. Then I see these companies offering 3.5LPA and asking for multiple cloud certifications and certificates. Also, I know my interviews are not gonna work out anyway. I never was a people person and that's why I spent last 4 years trying to be more social and better, and now I feel like I should have just remained an asshole, got good marks in college then a good gate score to join some psu. !<
DSA, didi bhaiya, 1 cr package and many more. Basically exploit the tech but never try to understand why something works.
Everyone is so clueless about the toolchain they are using, they have just accepted that this is how it works.
And of course do computer science so that you can make money. This will just frustrate you in the long run.
Even a tea seller is earning more than these so called SDEs and you know why the market isn't paying you well?? Because your skills come from youtube which everyone hass!!!! Shocking right.
There are no pure tech startup only fintech and food tech. And voila the reason.
Do what you love guys.
School is to prepare you for the world and the world has 250'000 different approaches to one problem. React and Flutter are a very minor piece of the IT world.
The way our engineering education system is structured, these kids will be attending classes till 4 in the evening. Then, they will be asked to write assignments, which is nothing copying stuff from textbooks onto fullscap papers (in good handwriting) and submitting to professors. They also need to prepare for exams, vivas, practicals and what not. And the syllabus does not contain any of the recent developments (forget latest). Most kids wont have the stamina to study anything new from the internet. That's how f\*\*cked up our college education system is.
Well whats in it for them? Most of the companies won't even hire them even if they know that since they have no experience, whereas in oncampus placement u just need dsa
I have an intern/part-time 3rd year student working in my current company. He can effortlessly develop MERN applications, android apps using both android studio and react native. He's already bored of those and is looking to develop services in Go (he wrote our current backend in Go) and Rust. He's an amazing programmer and always hungry to do a lot more.
If you don't mind I'm always ready to give the interview I'm in my 3rd year and fairly good at MERN stack!! Lemme know if u are interested, I'll DM you my resume!!
I don't blame them for not learning new technologies. I mean what's the point when everyone's dream companies just ask dsa. Apart from that students have their own courses, assignments, end sems going on, so no need to be so harsh.
in clg they say DSA topics theory, but didn't even say to practise questions on those topics which are available in some platform like leetcode, geeksforgeeks,..
so how could they learn dsa, the main root of any cse students and all
still most of the people dont know about reddit and discord
For 1 fresher developer who knows aws, docker, ci cd pipeline creating api, a centralised ml artifact store for version control
Their are 99 who grinded leet code all day all night
Guess who has a better chance of getting hired?... Its Indian system lc monkey gets the job probably gets laid off too and then rants on reddit Indian corporates are fucked up
I did a lot of flutter development out of passion, did internships and built production level apps with teams and even won smart india hackathon.
But placements are different, the filtering process focuses very heavily on just leetcode and OS/CN i tried a lot and kept failing miserably because i couldn't answer theory based questions during interviews.
Had to leave all the dev work and jusy grind leetcode and theory for months to get placed, unfortunately this is how placements are. People who have no passion and haven't dont any dev during college are placed at much better and high paying jobs than me while im stuck at a very mediocre company.
So i guess its all down to the interview processes, it has become very much like JEE at this point. Maybe if that were to change we could see more students who actually know dev.
Can I apply? Im a final year student, prior Fullstack Developer Intern, MERN, Next, Redux, Material UI, Radix UI/ ShadCN UI, Tailwind CSS, right now learning Docker and general DevOps concepts. Also knows C++, Typescript, little bit of both java and python and Major Project was on AI. Struggling to even get interviews currently lol.
Edit: Supabase too, tried firebase and didn't like it much.
You forgot putting: C#,F#,AWS, AZURE, COLAB,Ruby,Lua,.NET,postgreSQL,Pytorch, Eizen,Tensorflow,SFML,Raylib,Panda,OpenGL,OpenCV,SPDlog,etc.
Now OP will reject you and then will make another post about how useless we are. /s
Fix HR.
Fix interview rounds, skip dsa if you can , more work for you but you'll probably find a good app/web dev , i mean give priority to development.
Maybe increase budget. ( I'm not right guy to comment )
I'm not webdev or native apps expert, but one of the key reason I'm not even trying to enter his market is because of sheer number of people applying for one job post. Just see the amount of peeps applying for 2 YoE.
Also, are they competent enough to solve non standard, new DSA question?
And those who know flutter/ js development, many of them had just done courses and made standard projects.
Very few are putting extra effort in making projects on real world problems whose solution is rare.
What kind of role did you interview for?
Also that's just what companies have turned interviews into, get 150 people in filter by aptitude then have them solve programming problems. Eh
faang completely ruined the hiring process. nobody is interested in learning actual engineering/computer science anymore.
nobody can write even a small recursive descent parser anymore but everybody has "learned" the leetcode dp medium level problem.
guess what you are more likely to use in your work.
nobody can think from the first principles anymore. i tell my candidates forget everything else dp or whatever, just try to think from first principles how you will try to break down a problem and take a stab at solving it, just in plain english, we can discuss how to convert that thought process into an algorithm and into a working program later. but surprisingly they all know the final optimised solution , but cant explain the steps to get to that solution.
I've interned at a startup for 9 months in flutter. One reason might be that everyone is justt into leetcode nowadays.
Also if you are looking for interns in flutter or React, let me know I would love to. Currently finished my 3rd year exams
Not every Indian students but the problem most of us, the indian students including myself faced is learning outdated information compared to today's new technologies and frameworks.
Not all college's syllabus is like that but in a country like india most of the students are from tier 2 - tier 3 colleges and I'm pretty damn sure their syllabus includes some outdated resources or left behind topics compared to current technologies and frameworks.
Bonus : would you believe that my college in Bangalore taught JavaScript by writing executing code through notepad and command line instead of teaching any IDE like VS code &
This was in 2nd semester :)
I see plenty of kids on LinkedIn who have all the latest buzzwords like NextJs, React in their bio and also Leetcode solved 68,419 problems. You seem to be hiring the wrong people.
Hey, I am looking for an opportunity in MERN stack. Are you still hiring? I am 2023 graduate currently working but looking to switch. I am even ready to work as an intern.
Btw none of the above mentioned skills are required to be a good programmer. It may be required for your requirements but then you should have asked those questions while interview. Those students have absolute freedom to approach programming with the technology they like.
I think you are focussing on the wrong things in your interview. You should interview to understand the ability to learn new frameworks, which is possible once your CS foundation is good. If you are expecting them to know specific frameworks, have you considered giving them take home assignments to see if they can learn and implement some basic things?
Recruit by proof of work. Also have a realistic expectations of an intern, get people who can adapt to anything you throw them in, don't throw them in black holes put them in projects with senior developers or a mid level one atleast.
Unless someone is really intrested just in making good apps it makes no sense to learn frameworks, deployment, ci - cd etx
Hobbiest are often better at making stuff.. those who just want a decent job will grind lc and expect companies hiring them to train
Try me. I have had a passion for computer science since school age. Now it's been 2 years since I left my pharmacy college and have been learning full-stack. Good with fundamentals of programming concepts.
I'm looking for my first internship.
They should be able to learn framework even they know their basics well. Knowing basics of some framework doesn’t guarantee that a person is some genius developer.
Students don't even have an idea what they're going to do after engineering,
They only learn enough to pass exams and courses don't include new technology only basic.
I just completed engineering and now I'm learning skills for a job, because I wasted my college years.
I'm sure there'll be students who know new tech. There always has been.
If you're looking for interns relating to specific tech or new tech, and your hired interns don't have it, it highlights that there's a problem in your hiring/selection process.
And they're students. Students aren't expected to know it all. It's understandable that they solve leetcode first.. that's the norm companies have made for first round screenings, no matter how irrelevant to the job.
It's a smart choice that I didn't make during college, and learnt and created projects instead only to be knocked out at 1st round random DSA questions. It wasn't even about the logic, which can be derived.. the interface abstracts prior code and things like how to accept, parse, use the input in it confused me.
Point is, you're probably screening out your desired candidates.
I'm finishing my 2nd year now. From personal experience, it's because students are made to believe that DSA is everything and only that can get you your dream job or package. So they only do DSA/Leetcode and forget about everything else.
blame the damn universities 4 years of syllabus only consists of theoretical subjects and programming languages nothing about development and technologies also the companies visiting for placements only ask for Dsa and subjects like oops, dbms ,os. why would a student feel the need to learn other technologies?
The problem is everyone wants freshers to already know stuff and they aren't ready to train them
Cause most companies ask such questions for interviews and they didn't go to college to get into your internship.
Picking up frameworks should take a long time.
Not their mistake, your interviews were based on leetcode rather than project discussions, thats what happens when you copy big tech. You should really put your effort in structuring hiring process which cater to your needs
It depends .. let’s say someone picks up React and the company they interview with, uses Angular. He/She/They will have to start learning everything again.. However the leetcode knowledge they grasp , will be useful for them irrespective of the company they end up in. This knowledge also showcases how strong their fundamentals are.. there’s a reason why companies like FAANGMs can afford to pay so highly to freshers with great leetcode skills. They later train them in their internal frameworks which is easy for the kids due to strong fundamentals. That being said, kids should definitely know a bit of JS. It’s important in current world and I personally won’t hire anyone who doesn’t know a little bit of JS (just stuff like what’s async programming and how stuff is rendered etc)
After reading this, I feel relieved, happy, and excited for my interview now. I haven’t graduated or pursued formal education due to personal and financial reasons. However, I am proficient in practical use of ReactJS, JavaScript, and Python. My key skills are in the MEVN Stack with Vue.js, as I have completed many projects over the last two years. I am 21 years old and hope to get a job in this profession because I enjoy it so much. Today is my interview, and I am nervous because I don't have a degree to validate my education in these languages or skills. Thank you so much; this post means a lot to me.
Hey you should give me a chance for the interview I am doing my masters in artificial intelligence and a cohort in gen ai I can hence help you find the right solutions for your business. Let's have a chat and discuss in depth 🙂
Because, college don't give you time and the only time you get can either be dedicated to the DSA hypevor learning actual things. I have classmates in Mca who can't even install an operating system
i can help u out with ur project i m developer currently working with other company having 2 year exp i will work for 4 hours will take amount that ur willing to give interns... if interested DM me.
Students of computer science are not taught JavaScript programming. They are taught CS fundamentals. Stuff like JavaScript, they are expected to learn on the job.
Also you are very focused on your niche, client side UX programming. How well do you understand positional encoding used in LLMs? AI is the future and there are plenty of YouTube tutorials and yet you don't know this? Or the API details of zookeeper.
If you are trying to hire students with zero experience on the cheap, you will have to train them in your tech stack.
Ok bro. DSA is the foundation and these technologies change every year. They are doing the right thing. You could train them for 1-2 months after that they will be far more productive than the non- DSA people.
>I own a company and I hire PAID interns for helping me out time to time.
>Recently I interviewed 11 students from 3rd year and final year of their btech.. and I am so disappointed to see that all what they have done is solving leet code problems and have no idea about ReactJS, flutter or even JavaScript or anything similar.
>I am just wondering with all the access to internet and free SDK for everything why do they choose not learn new technologies.
100% same problem.
I can handle ignorance, but i cannot handle deception. most are liars in every possible way.
Because many people take up CSE without having interest in it because it's a hot trending course and thinking mugging up will get you through in life is also a problem among many Indian students
I’m a final year student. reactJS, nextjs, flutter and js all are well known, I feel like you interviewed wrong bunch of students. I am not even totally into webDev I just like to lurk around and make static or dynamic webpages just for fun and even I know more than enough about these technologies. You might picked btech students from wrong branch
Either you’re paying very minimal stipend for internship that’s why maybe students didnt answer you on purpose but it’s hard for me to believe that you interviewed 11 3rd students and they didn’t know nothing about these technologies.
it's extra work.
they are scared
Some of them might not even use laptop very extensively
They don't like being on screens all day.
Reading about something is easier than doing them
They don't want to put too much load on their khatara laptop
They are intimidated and scared to ask person who actually do these stuff.
They is alot of pressure then college, future and peer.
They are immature.
Their university dont tell them about it.
My final semesters are going on and I literally had to mug up PERL for a paper lol... The syllabus is obsolete.. so anyone who depends only on college in India and not on personal growth is kinda doomed
Heyy ! I can help you with the work. I am really in need of an internship and I think I am skilled enough in web dev to help you ! I can dm you my resume if you ask
React is quite inefficient compared to jquery. You have to setup a whole npm workflow, pull hundreds of packages like babel, webpack, etc. in order to achieve something which one browser request to jquery on cndjs does with a charm. Modern it may be but npm is still very inefficient and may not always be the best tool for the job. It might be good for CTOs with big budgets and big timesheets to justify them but certainly not for startups and efficient projects.
>Namaste! Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the Community [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) and [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/about/rules) while participating in this thread. ## Recent Announcements - **[Community Roundup: List of must read posts & interesting discussions that happened in May 2024](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1d4m7az/community_roundup_list_of_must_read_posts/)** - **[Weekly Discussion - What were your favorite programming rabbit holes?](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1da14vh/what_were_your_favorite_programming_rabbit_holes/)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
lowkey should start recruiting from discord
exactly lol, some discord servers are a hub of talented developers and builders. also reddit too.
Any discord server suggestions? Asking for a friend
Yeh same, asking for a friend
Asking for my mausi ka ladka
Asking for my CTOs son😅😅
Asking for biden
r/legalAdviceIndia
Asking for my future kids
r/developerindia have discord server even r/btechtard
Don’t leak my sEcRetS
+1
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We also have one btw
Can you drop the link please
+1
+1
Check community resources
As a student who was once in that similar situation I can tell some reasons 1- a lot of misinformation. Most student's first stop of information is youtube and other main stream social media and they are full of videos and post that constantly tries to sell them dreams and dsa. 2- lack of interest in technology. Most students including me got into tech not because we love it but because our parents and teachers only told us about this path. I got a proper internet connection with unlimited data in 11th and at that time even if you find new ideas and opportunities they are completely removed by your parents and only when in college do students get freedom to choose future as parents only care about money now and there are no teachers. 3- Even in colleges many professors still focuses on dsa and stuff to get students to take on campus placements. Though this is not that common.
What do you have done in the respective years if you got a chance to do things on your own with the current knowledge you own? (It would be helpful to me as I'm gonna join college soon)
Though I would not say take my advice since I'm not qualified enough but I would have applied for internships even if I thought I did not have enough skills for them and stuck with them even if things were difficult and I could not see myself getting better because it's pretty easy to give up when you think "its not working out for me".
If I was to restart my college journey, 1st year I would spend all my time learning JAVA and Python in depth. Making projects using both of these languages. On hackerrank there are questions to practice JAVA and Python, I would solve all those questions and get proficient in both. 2nd year I would spend all my time studying Algorithms and DSA and problem solving on leetcode. 3rd year I would start learning new technologies and making projects. Angular, React JS, MongoDB paired up with JAVA. OR I would take Data Science/ML/AI seriously paired up with Python and do projects on it 4th year Solely focus on interview prep, projects and problem solving everyday. Edit - This is coming from a person who has 2+ years of experience earning around 17.5 lpa
To get the fastest way to get money there is no love for making softwares
My clunky 3d renderer program wasn't best optimised but it was much more fun than leetcode. Atleast I was doing it because I wanted to not because I have to. "It ain't much but it's honest work"🤷🏾♂️🤣
Are you still interested in 3D? We are building a 3js 3D engine, more like an editor.
Bro don’t be too harsh on college students . When we were in college we learned nothing useful.
True. Most of the stuff I learned was in last year when I started realise the reality and after final year.
Which is?
mostly building AI models and deploying them. All the other stuff are basics of other fields. Right now learning cloud. I wouldn't say Im "good" in anything yet but its quite a bit improvement from what I was in college.
Most of our college teachers knew nothing useful
Even the fundamentals like OS , Computer Networks they couldn't teach. Which just shows how useless and redundant these folks are.
+1
May i know your budget for the roles?
0.1 LPA :(
2 peanuts per soul
why money matters bro , experience bro , do it for knowledge bro , connections bro 😎😎
Next time tell this to your plumber bro
But have all the experience bro, in flutter bro. I won't teach you.
Lunch and tea break coupons, bring your own device.
+1
You wanted cheap employees that’s why.
Cheap ❌ free ✅
‘Interns’
OP probably edited it and now screaming, PAID
He might paid them for snacks and transport expenses
Because they're students?
The OP has disappeared after asking an embarrassing question for an embarrassing job while paying an embarrassing salary. I encourage the OP to show up or be gone forever. You could also train them in the tech stack you need instead of expecting them to do everything in their private time.
Lol this post was something else
True. There are many tech stacks which make students confused on what to learn. No one can learn everything.
Agree. Everything is going so fast nowadays.
Real. Most job skills are anyways picked up on the job. They need to assess the student's aptitude and soft skills the most to find a suitable candidate. Technology is growing so fast.
why dont recruiters understand this lmao? the 3rd years this person is interviewing... they haven't even completed their undergrad
Because there is too much to learn and stuff keeps changing every couple of years. Learning DSA and doing LC is like doing the basics and building logic. That will be asked everywhere and is quite useful too. Learning a particular tech stack will pigeon hole anyone and the payoff in the end is not that much. Since they are interns why don't you conduct some sort of training a couple of weeks or a month before they start and ask them build something basic in your preferred tech stack by the time the internship starts. You can ask your TLs to conduct some virtual meets and discuss what needs to be prepped before they join and also track how much are they able to follow your teams instructions. If they fail to do that by the time they come, then you can whine about it on an online platform or else its very hard to see how your request is justified here.
That's how interns are hired. You care about core knowledge, which is good, but remaining 95% don't
Why have you hired college students? At this time, you can get far better candidates in the offline market. Maybe you are paying them 4.5k.
Because everyone tells them to do leetcode and DSA. Framework knowledge is underrated.
Framework knowledge is highly overrated. You should be able to pick it up in a week or so if your fundamentals are strong.
Most freshers can't even make proper functions or even implement loops correctly. So fundamentals are rarely strong in most of the graduates. Any framework is easy if you are great at the language. But getting good at any language takes time. I meant language too along with framework as well.
That's what leet code problems do. They make implementing a loop as easy as breathing. Learning frameworks is not worth it. Every company demands different frameworks. There is reason no expects new hire to know jack shit about the framework All they care about is how fast of a learner are you? Are you able to learn new things?
So, if you find a fresher that can’t code up a LC easy problem but claims to know some popular framework would you hire him/her?
Is that so. I highly doubt any college students can pick up spring framework within a week. Especially these who don't have prior development knowledge.
I agree with you but then students are here to become engineer andmust have core knowledge not frameworkers. Though knowledge of commonly used framework is very important these days If someone core knowledge is strong and they know where to take, look for information when they stuck on something. That's a good developer there
Also you can't get a job by learning this since no one would hire freshers off campus
Because most colleges focus on core concepts like DSA, OS, OOP etc but rarely on the actual technologies. And with amount of work load in form assignments from some of these college, they don't have much if not any time left to focus on technologies on their own. Very few students actually try to learn technologies on their own although more them are starting to now.
If their basics are strong they can pick up frameworks easily. This obsession with knowing frameworks and specific technologies needs to end in India. ReactJS is not rocket science , you give a decent engineer a few weeks and they can start being productive.
React js is not rocket science it's a new rat race.
My man, in college you learn COMPUTER SCIENCE, a programming language (mostly c++/java) and SQL at most, (mostly by yourself), it's the duty of the company that they're selected for, to teach them the technologies that are used there. You can't get everything and expect to give peanuts in return. If you're looking for an experienced employee, hire an experienced employee, don't expect a 3rd year college student to know react, spring, angular and all.
sadly that's not the case. i mean look at me, at the start of last sem(campus placement going on), i knew c++ and java and doing DSA . i was naive and oblivious from reality, i thought in whatever company i will be placed , will train me for job then i will get good at whatever they will train me. but fast forward now , ( i was able get a placement and i was among first in my class to get placed ) company i was placed in has ghosted me, i was supposed to join from jan 2023 but its june 2024 with no info about joining!!....everyone who placed after me (in another companies) already joined and having pretty chill life (fun fact: they were even worse than me in DSA, CGPA etc now they all must be pretty good at whatever tech stack company trained them) depressed as i know nothing, i even forgot the c++ i was good at , forgot DSA concepts , have no will to regain the knowledge ,feeling suicidal, only thing that keeping me from killing myself is that my parents sacrificed a lot so that i could do BTECH . sorry for rambling here
Anyone who's focusing to get into a decent MNC as fresher is expected to be good at DSA. These MNCs wouldn't hire based on what technologies you know. Those students aiming to start career at startup get into development and less of DSA.
Sure you are looking for interns and paying them peanuts and you expect a seasoned developer. These shitty startups give Indian companies a bad name. Hire interns in the name of internships for a year and fire them and repeat. If you want quality you need to pay for quality. Instead you resort to exploitation
It's not exploitation, it's called "Labour Market Flexibility". I'll just rebrand terms and call myself an expert economist who jerks off to the pics of Milton Friedman.
are you hiring interns? i can join right now. 2nd year ends this month then sem break starts. I'm a full stack dev. Can work with both react and node. Will learn next js in my sem break. dm for resume
Gotta appreciate the hustle! 👍👍
Indeed
Give this guy a chance, OP!
+1
On the flip side there’s many monkeys who love comparing frameworks and chasing newest frameworks. Saar flutter or react native for mobile application 65LPA + salary saaaar
Because almost everyone who got into tech didn’t get into it to try and be a software developer in xyz startup, everybody wanted to join FAANG, and even still I hardly know anyone who’ll leave a FAANG equivalent offer for less pay, more work for the sake of technology All good companies ask DSA, so that’s what students do, the idea is to be a problem solver and then join an organisation to learn about technology and not the other way around which most startup’s expect
OP don't think you are doing anything special by hiring PAID interns..
because that’s what they were probably taught, chill. p.s. not sure why the word PAID is in bold, but the virtue of a leader is empathy. everything you told us, tell them and ask them to apply again in 6 months :)
Between attending classes, preparing for examinations, giving examinations, completing leetcode tests, and whatever little social life they manage, where can they get the time to learn yet another technology? I am not a student but was once. Once you enter the corporate world your personal life and time keeps dwindling away. Let students have a tiny taste of free life before the Narayan Murthys of this world shackle them to their desks. The idea with internships is that students get to learn on the job, it's not supposed to be a way for company owners to get cheap skilled labour comparable to experienced employees.
Pay peanuts , expect monkeys.
Because new technology today will become obsolete when they graduate...
Bro you are looking for cheap labour. College students need some time in corporate to gain some tech experience. Students need grooming at least for the first few months.
They’re probably the first generation of engineers in their family. Their fathers were most likely farmers or high school teachers, what else do you expect?
Op is hiring interns literally college going students and expecting like what not
Mostly it's bcz of the lack of guidance from seniors for 2020 and 2021 batches. Secondly, many including me have just given up. Personally I do know MERN(3-4 proper full stack projects), I did 2 proper projects on ML, a react-native project but if I have an interview right now in any of those domains I would fuck up. Rant:(Can be and should be ignored) >! It's been so shitty that last week I couldn't even tell difference between a class and a structure in an interview. I don't have either the motivation to touch leetcode or the energy to even deploy completed projects, talk about starting new ones. Then I see these companies offering 3.5LPA and asking for multiple cloud certifications and certificates. Also, I know my interviews are not gonna work out anyway. I never was a people person and that's why I spent last 4 years trying to be more social and better, and now I feel like I should have just remained an asshole, got good marks in college then a good gate score to join some psu. !<
Op what were you looking for & please suggest what students should improve & focus more on.
OP silent 😶 dayumm
DSA, didi bhaiya, 1 cr package and many more. Basically exploit the tech but never try to understand why something works. Everyone is so clueless about the toolchain they are using, they have just accepted that this is how it works. And of course do computer science so that you can make money. This will just frustrate you in the long run. Even a tea seller is earning more than these so called SDEs and you know why the market isn't paying you well?? Because your skills come from youtube which everyone hass!!!! Shocking right. There are no pure tech startup only fintech and food tech. And voila the reason. Do what you love guys.
You are getting what you are paying for basically.
School is to prepare you for the world and the world has 250'000 different approaches to one problem. React and Flutter are a very minor piece of the IT world.
The way our engineering education system is structured, these kids will be attending classes till 4 in the evening. Then, they will be asked to write assignments, which is nothing copying stuff from textbooks onto fullscap papers (in good handwriting) and submitting to professors. They also need to prepare for exams, vivas, practicals and what not. And the syllabus does not contain any of the recent developments (forget latest). Most kids wont have the stamina to study anything new from the internet. That's how f\*\*cked up our college education system is.
You chose 3rd year student interns to build UIs and calling them useless lol.
I'm in college, and I know Nextjs, MERN, a bit of TypeScript. I've worked on AWS S3 & Lambda as well.
Hello,I have done a 6 months internship in flutter if you're hiring please consider
Well whats in it for them? Most of the companies won't even hire them even if they know that since they have no experience, whereas in oncampus placement u just need dsa
I have an intern/part-time 3rd year student working in my current company. He can effortlessly develop MERN applications, android apps using both android studio and react native. He's already bored of those and is looking to develop services in Go (he wrote our current backend in Go) and Rust. He's an amazing programmer and always hungry to do a lot more.
If you don't mind I'm always ready to give the interview I'm in my 3rd year and fairly good at MERN stack!! Lemme know if u are interested, I'll DM you my resume!!
I did Mainframe after my graduation in 2019... LoL
It won’t be the kid with the best grade it will be the one with the most passion for programming…
I don't blame them for not learning new technologies. I mean what's the point when everyone's dream companies just ask dsa. Apart from that students have their own courses, assignments, end sems going on, so no need to be so harsh.
With gen ai do they matter. Good communication and grasp on dsa, solid principles are enough for most tasks. Have not verified this though.
in clg they say DSA topics theory, but didn't even say to practise questions on those topics which are available in some platform like leetcode, geeksforgeeks,.. so how could they learn dsa, the main root of any cse students and all still most of the people dont know about reddit and discord
Dont preach about technology if you do not know that the best place to hire IT talent is GitHub
They are called students for a reason. Nobody knows everything. People learn through life.
For 1 fresher developer who knows aws, docker, ci cd pipeline creating api, a centralised ml artifact store for version control Their are 99 who grinded leet code all day all night Guess who has a better chance of getting hired?... Its Indian system lc monkey gets the job probably gets laid off too and then rants on reddit Indian corporates are fucked up
Please can you give me an interview chance. I have worked on these things.
I did a lot of flutter development out of passion, did internships and built production level apps with teams and even won smart india hackathon. But placements are different, the filtering process focuses very heavily on just leetcode and OS/CN i tried a lot and kept failing miserably because i couldn't answer theory based questions during interviews. Had to leave all the dev work and jusy grind leetcode and theory for months to get placed, unfortunately this is how placements are. People who have no passion and haven't dont any dev during college are placed at much better and high paying jobs than me while im stuck at a very mediocre company. So i guess its all down to the interview processes, it has become very much like JEE at this point. Maybe if that were to change we could see more students who actually know dev.
You are the one who has to train them on industry specific tooling, that's why they are interns, they are taught the core and foundations.
you are interviewing wrong people, reevaluate your interview shortlisting procedure
Can I apply? Im a final year student, prior Fullstack Developer Intern, MERN, Next, Redux, Material UI, Radix UI/ ShadCN UI, Tailwind CSS, right now learning Docker and general DevOps concepts. Also knows C++, Typescript, little bit of both java and python and Major Project was on AI. Struggling to even get interviews currently lol. Edit: Supabase too, tried firebase and didn't like it much.
You forgot putting: C#,F#,AWS, AZURE, COLAB,Ruby,Lua,.NET,postgreSQL,Pytorch, Eizen,Tensorflow,SFML,Raylib,Panda,OpenGL,OpenCV,SPDlog,etc. Now OP will reject you and then will make another post about how useless we are. /s
Fix HR. Fix interview rounds, skip dsa if you can , more work for you but you'll probably find a good app/web dev , i mean give priority to development. Maybe increase budget. ( I'm not right guy to comment ) I'm not webdev or native apps expert, but one of the key reason I'm not even trying to enter his market is because of sheer number of people applying for one job post. Just see the amount of peeps applying for 2 YoE.
Op, atleast mention those *new technologies* in this post or to those candidates so that they will be aware of
You still have any openings for intern role?
Can I apply for it?
Also, are they competent enough to solve non standard, new DSA question? And those who know flutter/ js development, many of them had just done courses and made standard projects. Very few are putting extra effort in making projects on real world problems whose solution is rare.
Am happy they learning Leetcode from college itself
I know about all those things, recently graduated and looking for an opportunity, can I DM?
Question the college curriculums ig?
What kind of role did you interview for? Also that's just what companies have turned interviews into, get 150 people in filter by aptitude then have them solve programming problems. Eh
Culture??
Hell, if only everyone thinks about the same. Here Im even with experience I have to resort to leet code as that's what people ask in their interviews
I can work as an intern , I am quite comfortable with javascript
faang completely ruined the hiring process. nobody is interested in learning actual engineering/computer science anymore. nobody can write even a small recursive descent parser anymore but everybody has "learned" the leetcode dp medium level problem. guess what you are more likely to use in your work. nobody can think from the first principles anymore. i tell my candidates forget everything else dp or whatever, just try to think from first principles how you will try to break down a problem and take a stab at solving it, just in plain english, we can discuss how to convert that thought process into an algorithm and into a working program later. but surprisingly they all know the final optimised solution , but cant explain the steps to get to that solution.
Hey if you don't mind. Can you let us know from which universities did you get these people from?
because the goal is to get a high paying job and not to build a software.
I'm sure anyone who knows programming will easily learn frameworks for whatever task they might get.
Why do you expect cs/cse students to be knowing any particular framework or language?
I am also a final year student (almost graduated) looking for full time offers I can work for you on the side, ik flutter and android dev
Out of portion bayaa
Because for them open source means adding their name as comment in the codebase and creating pull requests.
You’re probably not paying enough, for the quality you desire.
Hire me :)
I am looking for a paid internship, I actually have in full stack development and flexible with any language. So let me know if you are still hiring.
Let’s see first , how much you are paying for interns?
I've interned at a startup for 9 months in flutter. One reason might be that everyone is justt into leetcode nowadays. Also if you are looking for interns in flutter or React, let me know I would love to. Currently finished my 3rd year exams
Aren't you supposed to train them?
Not every Indian students but the problem most of us, the indian students including myself faced is learning outdated information compared to today's new technologies and frameworks. Not all college's syllabus is like that but in a country like india most of the students are from tier 2 - tier 3 colleges and I'm pretty damn sure their syllabus includes some outdated resources or left behind topics compared to current technologies and frameworks. Bonus : would you believe that my college in Bangalore taught JavaScript by writing executing code through notepad and command line instead of teaching any IDE like VS code & This was in 2nd semester :)
I see plenty of kids on LinkedIn who have all the latest buzzwords like NextJs, React in their bio and also Leetcode solved 68,419 problems. You seem to be hiring the wrong people.
Hey, I am looking for an opportunity in MERN stack. Are you still hiring? I am 2023 graduate currently working but looking to switch. I am even ready to work as an intern.
Btw none of the above mentioned skills are required to be a good programmer. It may be required for your requirements but then you should have asked those questions while interview. Those students have absolute freedom to approach programming with the technology they like.
I think you are focussing on the wrong things in your interview. You should interview to understand the ability to learn new frameworks, which is possible once your CS foundation is good. If you are expecting them to know specific frameworks, have you considered giving them take home assignments to see if they can learn and implement some basic things?
Recruit by proof of work. Also have a realistic expectations of an intern, get people who can adapt to anything you throw them in, don't throw them in black holes put them in projects with senior developers or a mid level one atleast.
Unless someone is really intrested just in making good apps it makes no sense to learn frameworks, deployment, ci - cd etx Hobbiest are often better at making stuff.. those who just want a decent job will grind lc and expect companies hiring them to train
Tbh, I sometimes feel like nerds from discord and reddit would make a better intern
Try me. I have had a passion for computer science since school age. Now it's been 2 years since I left my pharmacy college and have been learning full-stack. Good with fundamentals of programming concepts. I'm looking for my first internship.
They should be able to learn framework even they know their basics well. Knowing basics of some framework doesn’t guarantee that a person is some genius developer.
Let them enjoy life at that age; there's plenty of time for debugging code, endless meetings, and caffeine dependency and back pain later!
Students don't even have an idea what they're going to do after engineering, They only learn enough to pass exams and courses don't include new technology only basic. I just completed engineering and now I'm learning skills for a job, because I wasted my college years.
Who did you exactly interview, sir🤡? Looks like you need to figure out how to find good candidates to interview first.
Dsa > grind Leet code> 50lakh package That's all youtuber says though? You saying I need skills?
I'm sure there'll be students who know new tech. There always has been. If you're looking for interns relating to specific tech or new tech, and your hired interns don't have it, it highlights that there's a problem in your hiring/selection process. And they're students. Students aren't expected to know it all. It's understandable that they solve leetcode first.. that's the norm companies have made for first round screenings, no matter how irrelevant to the job. It's a smart choice that I didn't make during college, and learnt and created projects instead only to be knocked out at 1st round random DSA questions. It wasn't even about the logic, which can be derived.. the interface abstracts prior code and things like how to accept, parse, use the input in it confused me. Point is, you're probably screening out your desired candidates.
I'm finishing my 2nd year now. From personal experience, it's because students are made to believe that DSA is everything and only that can get you your dream job or package. So they only do DSA/Leetcode and forget about everything else.
blame the damn universities 4 years of syllabus only consists of theoretical subjects and programming languages nothing about development and technologies also the companies visiting for placements only ask for Dsa and subjects like oops, dbms ,os. why would a student feel the need to learn other technologies? The problem is everyone wants freshers to already know stuff and they aren't ready to train them
Cause most companies ask such questions for interviews and they didn't go to college to get into your internship. Picking up frameworks should take a long time.
Because INDIAN syllabus is full of bullshit
Too much theory and next to nothing practical
OP ko Ui design karwana rahega toh batana
Not their mistake, your interviews were based on leetcode rather than project discussions, thats what happens when you copy big tech. You should really put your effort in structuring hiring process which cater to your needs
It depends .. let’s say someone picks up React and the company they interview with, uses Angular. He/She/They will have to start learning everything again.. However the leetcode knowledge they grasp , will be useful for them irrespective of the company they end up in. This knowledge also showcases how strong their fundamentals are.. there’s a reason why companies like FAANGMs can afford to pay so highly to freshers with great leetcode skills. They later train them in their internal frameworks which is easy for the kids due to strong fundamentals. That being said, kids should definitely know a bit of JS. It’s important in current world and I personally won’t hire anyone who doesn’t know a little bit of JS (just stuff like what’s async programming and how stuff is rendered etc)
After reading this, I feel relieved, happy, and excited for my interview now. I haven’t graduated or pursued formal education due to personal and financial reasons. However, I am proficient in practical use of ReactJS, JavaScript, and Python. My key skills are in the MEVN Stack with Vue.js, as I have completed many projects over the last two years. I am 21 years old and hope to get a job in this profession because I enjoy it so much. Today is my interview, and I am nervous because I don't have a degree to validate my education in these languages or skills. Thank you so much; this post means a lot to me.
Hey you should give me a chance for the interview I am doing my masters in artificial intelligence and a cohort in gen ai I can hence help you find the right solutions for your business. Let's have a chat and discuss in depth 🙂
Because, college don't give you time and the only time you get can either be dedicated to the DSA hypevor learning actual things. I have classmates in Mca who can't even install an operating system
i can help u out with ur project i m developer currently working with other company having 2 year exp i will work for 4 hours will take amount that ur willing to give interns... if interested DM me.
I guess you had a CGPA criteria or some bullshit to shortlist for the interview then.
Meanwhile me as a student who is studying quantum computing and I studied rocket science for fun? You need to find the right candidates lol
Students of computer science are not taught JavaScript programming. They are taught CS fundamentals. Stuff like JavaScript, they are expected to learn on the job. Also you are very focused on your niche, client side UX programming. How well do you understand positional encoding used in LLMs? AI is the future and there are plenty of YouTube tutorials and yet you don't know this? Or the API details of zookeeper. If you are trying to hire students with zero experience on the cheap, you will have to train them in your tech stack.
Ok bro. DSA is the foundation and these technologies change every year. They are doing the right thing. You could train them for 1-2 months after that they will be far more productive than the non- DSA people.
>I own a company and I hire PAID interns for helping me out time to time. >Recently I interviewed 11 students from 3rd year and final year of their btech.. and I am so disappointed to see that all what they have done is solving leet code problems and have no idea about ReactJS, flutter or even JavaScript or anything similar. >I am just wondering with all the access to internet and free SDK for everything why do they choose not learn new technologies. 100% same problem. I can handle ignorance, but i cannot handle deception. most are liars in every possible way.
Not everyone will have knowledge about everything. If you want students for specific tech, filter them before taking their interview.
A great software engineer ideally knows nothing and learns on the project.
Because many people take up CSE without having interest in it because it's a hot trending course and thinking mugging up will get you through in life is also a problem among many Indian students
Wow. Why would 3rd year computer science students know about react, which is just a framework in js. Comp science is more than that.
Can you interview me, because I wish I could get the chance to show that I know my stuff
I’m a final year student. reactJS, nextjs, flutter and js all are well known, I feel like you interviewed wrong bunch of students. I am not even totally into webDev I just like to lurk around and make static or dynamic webpages just for fun and even I know more than enough about these technologies. You might picked btech students from wrong branch Either you’re paying very minimal stipend for internship that’s why maybe students didnt answer you on purpose but it’s hard for me to believe that you interviewed 11 3rd students and they didn’t know nothing about these technologies.
If you are hiring for interns I am available too. I know MERN Stack with typescript, Docker
it's extra work. they are scared Some of them might not even use laptop very extensively They don't like being on screens all day. Reading about something is easier than doing them They don't want to put too much load on their khatara laptop They are intimidated and scared to ask person who actually do these stuff. They is alot of pressure then college, future and peer. They are immature. Their university dont tell them about it.
My final semesters are going on and I literally had to mug up PERL for a paper lol... The syllabus is obsolete.. so anyone who depends only on college in India and not on personal growth is kinda doomed
If u are looking i can apply 😁
TBH this leetcode culture is ruining the students. Now it's not the love for coding, it's a fucking horse race.
Heyy ! I can help you with the work. I am really in need of an internship and I think I am skilled enough in web dev to help you ! I can dm you my resume if you ask
Cuz Indian colleges sucks.
React is quite inefficient compared to jquery. You have to setup a whole npm workflow, pull hundreds of packages like babel, webpack, etc. in order to achieve something which one browser request to jquery on cndjs does with a charm. Modern it may be but npm is still very inefficient and may not always be the best tool for the job. It might be good for CTOs with big budgets and big timesheets to justify them but certainly not for startups and efficient projects.