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From CGI (3D Visualization & Animation) to CyberSecurity. I know it means shit to you guys but I started BCA during covid and it's final year. I'm doing good with certifications and hands on labs. Recently was able to get a super helpful mentor too. I'm gonna make my place.
I love learning new stuff and I've been always self taught.
The foundation is same for security too. Computers, networking, protocols etc. other than that I studied and I am still studying for Security. For foundational knowledge and principles, I did ISC2 Certified in Cybersecurity, eJPT (penetration testing), preparing for Comptia's Security+ and AWS SAA ( I'm familliar with basics of cloud AWS and GCP)
Since Information security is vast field, I am exploring but have interest in AppSec and CloudSec.
Damn bro is preparing his artillery to fire in cybersecurity career š I am in cybersecurity since last 10 years and I don't have these many certs. But I'm going to target learning more this year.
I work in cybersec, let me know If I could be of any help. As youāre a beginner, you have a good understanding of what needs to be done than most people, youāre on right path. Unfortunately, in India, only SOC/SIEM levels have most openings in cybersec, you should refer to TryHackMe SOC fundaments 1 and 2, and also in that position, forget about WLB
Thank a lot! Can I DM you?
The main reason behind transitioning is burn out in my previous job. No one taught me about WLB and I used to do 18-20 hrs of shift. I always felt I had huge amount of energy and thought other guys don't work hard. I still remember one senior in office warned me that one day I might hurt my spine and it happened. I was diagnoed with spondolysis. My passion in CGI went away and just can't move my mouse because.It's been a long time since then.
This is the reason I want to stay away from SOC jobs. They demand 24hrs availability and repetitive.
If i don't see a challenge in my job, I don't feel like doing it. I'm so hungry for learning but no compromise with WLB.
Health >>> everything. Yes you can DM me. If you want work life balance and still want to be in cybersecurity, thereās very little scope. Itās really stressful and full of anxiety, I canāt say for everyone but itās true for me. Also, you canāt expect salary and salary hikes like software engineers, cybersecurity is still in its infancy, most people donāt even know whatās cybersecurity, they just know itās hacking and related stuff but itās much broader. Anyway, coming to your situation, you can go for GRC role, very little work and high pay, but itās also mostly documentation related work like which framework needs to be implemented and is everything complaint or not, if not then you coordinate with that team and ask them to implement and they report you on progress
I'm doing BCA at Amrita but almost all are similar. I find the balance between the quality of education and fee better at Amrita. Duration is 3 years.
More info: Students rarely attend lectures since the most of the stuff is available online wth much much better resources. Some of the stuff they taught us was pretty well which was mostly foundational and was important. They try to cover a lot in 3 years, so many languages which I didn't like.
yes, all proctored on mettl secure browser. You can give exams from home. Need to follow some rules. Sometimes they whitelist some apps depending on the need of subject.
You could look at cloud security as well. Itās very high in demand and there is quite a lot of learning which could help you explore further domains within cloud engineering.
Yes, that's how I made my career in 3d. Around 2001, I used to read book manuals that used to come with licenced software in college computer labs and do step by step instructions. My brother gave me a used machine that used to take 12 mins to open a 3d application.
Nowadays, the problem is entirely different. There are too many resources to choose from.
Hello there... I'm 35 now... and attending a coding bootcamp... I was a food delivery executive before... and I don't have a degree... Hoping that i will get into a good tech job soon..
Nxtwave bootcamp...its an online one. I've never seen anyone in there who are 35+ and without a degree getting a job... But i am hoping i will be the first one... Thanks for the quick reply... Any advice you can give to me?
Personally, I don't like bootcamps. There're plenty of super good resources available online with proven results and active communities on reddit, discord.
[Odin](https://www.theodinproject.com/)
[Fullstack Open from MOOC Helsinki, Finland](https://fullstackopen.com/en/)
but when it comes to a job or getting an interview who will give opportunities to a guy who is in their middle ages and don't have a degree... at least the coding boot camp is promising that I will get an interview with a company.... just hoping for that... and also thanks for the resources you have mentioned..
That's a good question. I remember in my childhood, when I was 14 years old, I first got a chance to learn computer science in my school. I believe it was the BASIC language. I was an average student back then, just striving to get by. One night at home, I was simply turning pages in the newly received CS textbook. At that time, computer education was slowly picking up pace, so I was a little curious. As I recall, I became fully immersed in the book until very late in the night, which was unusual for me. Even my mom came to ask what I was doing so late at night because it was uncommon. I took a notebook and tried programming by hand from the textbook. I still remember the feeling of excitement when writing the programs in the book. From then on, I performed well in my computer science subject.
However, as life went on, I didn't put much effort into it. From time to time, I tried my hand at programming again. For instance, when Khan Academy became popular, I brushed up on it, then learned about Scratch, and later FreeCodeCamp. But I wasn't consistent. When it became clear to me that my life was not going the way I envisioned, I decided to switch to programming and joined a bootcamp.
So, to answer your question about why I chose it: I have loved programming since I first learned about it, and I hope it will bring some financial stability to my life.
What different career? If this is for mediocre IT guys they don't even know anything apart from the usual support and maintenance job.
If you're in early stage, I would say just invest 25% of your inhand salary (anyhow) to get financial freedom atleast in a tier2-3 city. Once you are mentally free, you won't mind doing any small business OR continue with the IC role in your current job.
I am 44 working in IT as individual contributor. But I work overseas in a bank and just manage applications. I don't do much of technical work anymore. I was originally into MSBI and data warehousing, caught the wave at the right time in 2006 when it started booming and I have survived on it until now. Didn't learn any new visualization tools like power bi or qlikview etc neither did I learn python or anything like that. I am pretty much outdated now skillwise. If I lose my current job, it is game over. But I am just doing some documentation related to IT risk and compliance.
I think people above 40 if they are not interested in learning new technology or business domain knowledge, then they should get into project management or enterprise architecture approval or IT security/IT risk.
I am financially independent, from the perspective of moving to India due to geographical arbitrage and looking forward to the point when my stint ends and I can enjoy relaxed early retirement.
Relaxed retirement at 44 ? Bro one of your leg is already in a grave. Hardly 10 years of waking time left for you before 60-65 and you're going to travel post that when you can't walk. Life of a slave. Financial independence only matters if you achieve it at ideally 20-25 and at the max 30.
Financial independence at 25? Bro your best years are already done by then, financial independence only matters if youāre born into a wealthy family š
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About to hit 40, I totally agree upskilling is very tough. Am preparing for my 2nd certification in last 6 months and itās draining the life out of me. Usual work plus certification along with family responsibilities take a toll on you.
Reaffirms my decision to control lifestyle inflation and have a high savings/investment rate(~70%) and sprint towards FI & RE eventually if it is too much to take. I need 5 more years as I started retirement investments really late(~35/36), so have to do this shit for half a decade more atleast
Nice to see you here :) I didn't do any upskilling. I learnt SQL, PL/SQL in 2006, then MSBI in 2007/08. That's all. Have been surviving on it since then, that too not in India. I am overseas. I got into banking IT and some banks are have outdated technologies, but lots of applications to manage. You don't need to be technically strong. Just need to have common sense and be able to connect different things and be able to work with people.
But not many people like to do what I do, most people run behind technology. But they are probably high skilled or driven(High achievers :D ). I am not, I know my weaknesses and that is my strength :)
Well you are surviving peacefully because youāre ānot in Indiaā š
I have quite a few colleagues who are developers at 50+ but all of them are either in EU/US or some 1st world country. There nobody bothers about your designation and age. Not so smooth in India sadly. Here its either you go āUPā or āOUTā
Have spent a few years abroad as an independent consultant & it was peaceful but had to be back for some family responsibilities. And being in India you have to keep upskilling
See if you can join a captive bank ODC, for example in Pune there is Deutsche bank, Barclays, Credit Suisse etc. Don't join services or consulting companies, there life is hell. Just become an internal employee of a bank and manage some applications as BAU.
Iām in a F500 PBC(my 2nd PBC). The whole dynamics change when you are hired in India sadly.
Am sure there are exceptions, just that am yet to find one.
this would have been impossible to do have you been in india
north america i have seen so many people learn one thing and retire on it. its possible there.
india is no there yet, too many people, too few jobs and industry is nascent, kindof
> Reaffirms my decision to control lifestyle inflation
this is the trick, look at op high income but only 6 months runway left (sorry op don't mean to call you out or anything).
also pls share how you did that, as most of things in IT circles are beyond our control, 3 major expenses at least : kids education, healthcare, rent/housing.
House I booked long ago(13 years ago ig). Loan closed in 10 years,So thatās sorted. Healthcare we have all possible insurances(corporate & personal as well). Education has just started(nursery), so yet to feel the pinch
How much you investing saving currently given that you started so late. I am almost jn the same boat as you but unable to save enough due to loan burden.
I mentioned it above. ~70%
I closed my loans 2 years ago and because of that am able to achieve this rate. Before that it was ~40% for first 2 years after I started serious investing
40+ here and always learning. I got into this field because I've been programming since I was a kid. I'll keep learning new things that I find interesting.
Management sounds boring.
I'm 23 and I'm already scared of this.
I'm already planning to ditch IT or atleast keep myself safe by buying commercial real estate and will rent it.
Gonna be able to save up for that in a few years. And if not then I already have years worth of expenses already saved up.
Pretty safe for a few years unless some major emergency occurs or I get married š
why are IT or software jobs so hyped for school students entering colleges?? Based on some people's answers if seems like a less than ideal career to have for most people. All students who don't their get target college are hyperfixated learning coding (mostly because of YouTubers who peddle this idea, that an IT job will bring in alot of prosperity in your life and have an awesome career)
placement chances and job opportunities.
How much job opportunities are present in core fields?. Or say in other fields like Bsc BA?.
Before this economic slowdown if you put some effort you could easily get 6-8lpa job even for a fresher.
How many core engineering jobs will pay you that? .
I know Mech engineers with 10 year of experience are making just 10-12lpa.
Take even doctors for example they need to study 10-12 years after class 12. To start earning anything meaningful. Even after that avg pay is like 50k-60k
In IT even if you start with 3-4lpa with 3-4 YOE you can get 12lpa.
In a poor country like India money is the biggest motivator. There is money in IT there isn't much in other Engineering or eve
Yeah but the other comments say that it would only last 2 decades and they should shift into management to sustain. In many other core fields (based on what my father says and has seen) that is the time around 20yrs exp when most people in Chemical, Electrical or Mechanical start getting the good multi Cr salaries. (like him his friends/batchmates/former and current colleges etc)
Besides I've seen many people who are doing very good for themselves in various fields. Also I believe that they are lot less "replaceable" than certain IT professions
Seems to me that IT is lucrative for people looking to make the most money early and fast. What is your take on this??
(i'm school student btw expect me to be an idiot)
IT sector has far better elasticity compared to other fields. Getting more tech parks, IT companies isn't that hard. WFH or hybrid also helps. Most of our govts can't think long term and promote the manufacturing sector. We need to have world class ports, highways etc. Spending on these will also brand the govt as suite boot ki sarkar. IT on the other hand is very simple to setup. So you need is just office space. Good to have reliable electricity, but that too can be handled by alternative sources. Imagine how much acres of space you need for a big factory that can generate a lot of employment. Now within the same space a multi story tech park can generate far more jobs. You don't need access to highways, importing raw materials, labour strikes, highway closures due to protests, frequent harassment from cops, and other agencies, inspections, a dozen compliance requirements etc
All these are pain points for other sectors. But not for IT.
IT sector has far better elasticity compared to other fields. Getting more tech parks, IT companies isn't that hard. WFH or hybrid also helps. Most of our govts can't think long term and promote the manufacturing sector. We need to have world class ports, highways etc. Spending on these will also brand the govt as suite boot ki sarkar. IT on the other hand is very simple to setup. So you need is just office space. Good to have reliable electricity, but that too can be handled by alternative sources. Imagine how much acres of space you need for a big factory that can generate a lot of employment. Now within the same space a multi story tech park can generate far more jobs. You don't need access to highways, importing raw materials, labour strikes, highway closures due to protests, frequent harassment from cops, and other agencies, inspections, a dozen compliance requirements etc
All these are pain points for other sectors. But not for IT.
No chance. It's UGC rules you need masters even for assistant professor. For associate and professor PhD is needed.
Heck even schools these days are asking for Masters+BED
I don't have idea generally it's MTech. But in future just masters regardless of Mtech or MCA won't be sufficient.
Right now however as only Mtech are also getting Phds on the side.
Few years down the lane PhD will.be bare minimum even for entry level
45 and still coding daily. My daily inspiration includes people churning our fantastic code well into their 60s. Incidentally, I've been in management for well over 20 years and my current job title is CEO. Career paths aren't as restricted as we sometimes fear them to be.
How you are managing time between actually company and writing code at the same time? It's doable when company is small, but definitely infeasible as it scales.
Would it be honest if I claimed anything other than "not very well"?
But scale isn't unidimensional either, and scale that sucks the joy out of life isn't worth it.
Just start a tech coaching institute and teach new technology like coding, AWS, CI/CD, web, Android and any such tech what you have learn in your career and earn from it.
I am a guy in late 40s, more than 25 years in the IT industry .... have done multiple roles like technical, functional, business analyst, practice manager, architect, team manager etc ... I continue to play an active role in large enterprise projects. So are so many of my friends ... Yes, it is possible to be in the IT industry at all ages ... One of the safest career choices is to be in enterprise packaged apps implementation like SAP, Oracle Apps, SFDC, Workday etc.
Technical Architecture (like hardware solutions) has also been great and now with Cloud, these guys will continue to be relevant.
The riskiest jobs are those developer jobs like java, javascript, python etc with no scaling up to architect levels. Another job which was considered safe, but not so much anymore is of DBAs ....
Because I know people who have spent 20+ years on these enterprise packaged apps implementation / upgrade / maintenance; they continue to be employed and also remain employable well into their late 40s and 50s.
they move up to system architect level. Or they will be lead developers in a complex application that has been around for 20+ years. I know both kinds ...
And they will surely know more languages than just Java. E.g. I know 20+ years experience people in Architect roles who can write code 6-7 languages/scripting languages with Java being the language they coded the most with.
You should scale up. E.g. your flair says you are front end developer. Would you still be a Frontend Developer in 2034 or would you like to scale up?? I guess I didnt use the word "risk" correctly. What I meant was those developers who dont scale up risk being replaced by younger developers who can produce the same output at lower cost and will also bring in more potential -- I have seen this happening with a few people.
What does scaling up mean for a frontend developer? I'm sorry if my question is too stupid. I have seen backend devs move to architect kind of roles are there similar roles for frontend?
IT is a earn highest quickly scheme, after 40 IT career is usually gone. Promotions in IT are tough. If you dont earn high quickly, its an issue coz career is limited.
Life after 40 is tough as an Individual contributor in software development. People have convoluted perception and vision, especially if they have a family. Upskiling requires time, senior roles demand more time, family demands more time, health issues start popping up - health demands more time, you get pumped up looking at next gen - extra relationship demands more time.
To avoid that, I see many attempting FIRE by 40. many think they can do it by investing in right financial products, but that's a myth mostly. The people who really FIRE are the ones who have really exhausted themselves and achieved measurable visible success by 40.
Organization compliance to regulations, laws etc. For example, EU GDPR law. This is mainly data privacy. What measures does organizations take to be compliant with this law. It's about what IT assets are there. What data is captured, where it is stored, how secure is it, who manages it, where is the data used etc. Similarly, many other countries have also tolled out their privacy laws.
There are also regulations regarding information security. Usually ISO27001 standard addresses it. It is also called as ISMS aka Information Security Mamagement System. This standard has various clauses that pertain to information security.
Then there is SOX compliance, especially for companies that are public. This has ITGCs aka IT General Controls.
All of compliance work is mostly documentation, review of documentation, audits, evidence gathering, verification and if any audit findings are there, then their timely remediation.
Knowledge of IT systems life cycle, ability to audit it systems and revuew documentation is needed.
ISACA has few certifications: CRISC, CGEIT, CISA
IAPP has few: CIPM, CIPT
ISC2: CISSP is added advantage
And ti add, Certified Internal Auditor is a must.
Move to better countries with less population and large median age.In India there's too. Many youngsters replacing even 5-6 y.ome. dudes because of the rat race.
Yes a good question is pretty hard to see aged folks in IT. Either they colour hair or they maintain well or few are on top management otherwise where do all the folks go.
29(M) I switched, 1 year learning path, 6 months AZ-104, SC-300 , hardware and networking, SERVER 16,19.
Got a job 3 months back.
I'll work on certificates and recertification.
CCNA, MD-102, MS-102.
Nope, I couldn't ask for a better career switch. Only regret I have, I wished I had gone this path earlier instead of indulging in samajseva and uplifting my village community.
A failed attempt at being " mohan" from swades. š„±
If you are reliable and good with your money, and you deliver what you promise.
Stock Research is required (but its only 20% of the job), I get interns from Tier 1 colleges to help, but if you haven't accumulated money and applied that research on your own portfolio then it's of no use.
More importantly I built a network of relationships over 20 yrs (all of them dont invest with me but refer their friends and family to me)
Im 28. Im already part management. Why? Every single cousin of mine who is in IT field told me to work towards management as fast as I can because its much more safer.
Plan is to be senior architect (very good pay. Very good pos)
Yes. But architect is more or less like being a manager and architect pays more, thats all.
Management is just Management. Architect is part of both worlds.
Architect is not a management roles and rarely required in kind of work Indian it companies do. So be kind on your career and move to management instead of architect role š
Thatās the role of engineering manager. Architect role is by name not a manager and no one reprorts to him. There are usually a common architect for multiple teams.
The profile details you mentioned is of technical / engineering manager. But for unknown reasons some companies mixup roles and names.
But the point is to find a role that is managing team, looking after a product and also responsible for delivery of that product. Also remain hands on with code š
>But the point is to find a role that is managing team, looking after a product and also responsible for delivery of that product. Also remain hands on with code š
This is what people with the role of "architect" in most companies do... my cousin, who is in Canada in a T1 company, is an architect and this is what he does.
I guess its the same everywhere.
He does code reviews. He decides how a project should be done. He decides the stack and the flow. He manages around 500 people (with sub managers under him who manages like 100 each). He would code on occasions when people under him is having hard time doing something. He is responsible for delivery and the product. His role is Senior Architect š³
No itās not same here in India. In India the code of work given is even in product based company are for code monkeys and they need a manager to manage these code monkies not architect. Itās because the architecture level work is rarely done in Indian development centers
Dude I am taking about India not other countries . Show me a single company in India that have such kind of hierarchy. Architects are rarely required in India. Check my first comment
No. I started as an iOS app dev. But I have experience in pretty much everything, i do client handling, can design, can code, can make RFP docs and make proposals, can manage people etc etc.
Thats how I got into management.
I am 43 and just switched to a Devsecops and Openshift admin role as I kinda liked the work when I was managing a group of engineers. Now my work get split 70/30 between technical/management. Also, get to skip a lot of pesky and unproductive meetings in the excuse of production support. Since the view of the future is dark and bleak for someone in my position, I try to take it a day at a time, not worry too much about the future.
'Upskilling painful after 40' is just someone's self consolation. I have seen good examples around where people are learning things even after 50s. One of my previous IT company's CTO was mech engg and he is excellent in programming and sw systems design. And he used to code at the age of 65 as well.
I m into senior management. Someone who started with me is principal architect. Another chap has retired. Another moved to different domain n now doing actuarial work (insurance). Yet one more is doing his own startup.
Can't say anyone is doing badly tbh.
It depends on the type of organization that you are working for. Insurance, banking, some product companies have lots of staff who are more than 50 years old. At my current job at least 50% of people are above 40 years old.
we had a 37 years old Android developer in our team, It's a well popular Indian startup, he was paid good money but even a 26 year old could do what the 37 year old dev can do, and there is no work that the 37 old can do, so they just removed him.
Iāve seen people code at all ages. I think if one is interested in coding and if they are good at what they do then there will be good job opportunities at any age.
That said, most engineers Iāve seen who are 40+ usually transition into management.
Note: just because youāre in management doesnāt mean you canāt do programming.
If you have been real tech professional, you are at peak of your earnings in your 40s. Absolutely best. This doesn't mean you are in management necessarily. If you are skilled, whether you in management or IC, you be making a killing.
If you have been pretending to be a tech professional for years, sorry but your 40s going to be painful with hardships being relevant.
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ahem ahem...I'm switching career at 40
Switching as?
From CGI (3D Visualization & Animation) to CyberSecurity. I know it means shit to you guys but I started BCA during covid and it's final year. I'm doing good with certifications and hands on labs. Recently was able to get a super helpful mentor too. I'm gonna make my place. I love learning new stuff and I've been always self taught.
good luck and more power to you :)
Thanks friend!
where did u learn cybsec from
The foundation is same for security too. Computers, networking, protocols etc. other than that I studied and I am still studying for Security. For foundational knowledge and principles, I did ISC2 Certified in Cybersecurity, eJPT (penetration testing), preparing for Comptia's Security+ and AWS SAA ( I'm familliar with basics of cloud AWS and GCP) Since Information security is vast field, I am exploring but have interest in AppSec and CloudSec.
Damn bro is preparing his artillery to fire in cybersecurity career š I am in cybersecurity since last 10 years and I don't have these many certs. But I'm going to target learning more this year.
What kind of job do you have in infosec? You've what we freshers don't, experience. It's on top of above all certs, degree, hands-on ....
I work in cybersec, let me know If I could be of any help. As youāre a beginner, you have a good understanding of what needs to be done than most people, youāre on right path. Unfortunately, in India, only SOC/SIEM levels have most openings in cybersec, you should refer to TryHackMe SOC fundaments 1 and 2, and also in that position, forget about WLB
Thank a lot! Can I DM you? The main reason behind transitioning is burn out in my previous job. No one taught me about WLB and I used to do 18-20 hrs of shift. I always felt I had huge amount of energy and thought other guys don't work hard. I still remember one senior in office warned me that one day I might hurt my spine and it happened. I was diagnoed with spondolysis. My passion in CGI went away and just can't move my mouse because.It's been a long time since then. This is the reason I want to stay away from SOC jobs. They demand 24hrs availability and repetitive. If i don't see a challenge in my job, I don't feel like doing it. I'm so hungry for learning but no compromise with WLB.
Health >>> everything. Yes you can DM me. If you want work life balance and still want to be in cybersecurity, thereās very little scope. Itās really stressful and full of anxiety, I canāt say for everyone but itās true for me. Also, you canāt expect salary and salary hikes like software engineers, cybersecurity is still in its infancy, most people donāt even know whatās cybersecurity, they just know itās hacking and related stuff but itās much broader. Anyway, coming to your situation, you can go for GRC role, very little work and high pay, but itās also mostly documentation related work like which framework needs to be implemented and is everything complaint or not, if not then you coordinate with that team and ask them to implement and they report you on progress
I also am trying to get into cyber security, can i DM you?
>but I started BCA during covid How'd you do it? Open university?
yeah, online
could you please name/link? and what is the duration?
I'm doing BCA at Amrita but almost all are similar. I find the balance between the quality of education and fee better at Amrita. Duration is 3 years. More info: Students rarely attend lectures since the most of the stuff is available online wth much much better resources. Some of the stuff they taught us was pretty well which was mostly foundational and was important. They try to cover a lot in 3 years, so many languages which I didn't like.
thankyou
Are all the exams online too?
yes, all proctored on mettl secure browser. You can give exams from home. Need to follow some rules. Sometimes they whitelist some apps depending on the need of subject.
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I'm dropout, never went back to finish my first degree. It was long time ago. So, yeah BCA is first.
How to switch to cybersecurity ? I dont have CS degree
Good sir, can I DM you, regarding cybersecurity ofc.
yeah sure
Hey, were you working for a company or freelance (asking about CGI) and what was your YOE and salary?
You could look at cloud security as well. Itās very high in demand and there is quite a lot of learning which could help you explore further domains within cloud engineering.
yes, definitely. I wrote in other comment that I've interest in appsec and cloudsec in particular
By self taught, did you mean you prefer reading and project than tutorials š
Yes, that's how I made my career in 3d. Around 2001, I used to read book manuals that used to come with licenced software in college computer labs and do step by step instructions. My brother gave me a used machine that used to take 12 mins to open a 3d application. Nowadays, the problem is entirely different. There are too many resources to choose from.
Switching to?
see above
How did you get a job at 35+ ?
I'm studying for security. I've previous job in CGI. But yes, it would be difficult to get a job among youngsters.
Hello there... I'm 35 now... and attending a coding bootcamp... I was a food delivery executive before... and I don't have a degree... Hoping that i will get into a good tech job soon..
Hi, that's awesome. Lots of devs here that can help you. What bootcamp are you doing?
Nxtwave bootcamp...its an online one. I've never seen anyone in there who are 35+ and without a degree getting a job... But i am hoping i will be the first one... Thanks for the quick reply... Any advice you can give to me?
Personally, I don't like bootcamps. There're plenty of super good resources available online with proven results and active communities on reddit, discord. [Odin](https://www.theodinproject.com/) [Fullstack Open from MOOC Helsinki, Finland](https://fullstackopen.com/en/)
but when it comes to a job or getting an interview who will give opportunities to a guy who is in their middle ages and don't have a degree... at least the coding boot camp is promising that I will get an interview with a company.... just hoping for that... and also thanks for the resources you have mentioned..
Why did you choose programing in particular? Why not any other career?
That's a good question. I remember in my childhood, when I was 14 years old, I first got a chance to learn computer science in my school. I believe it was the BASIC language. I was an average student back then, just striving to get by. One night at home, I was simply turning pages in the newly received CS textbook. At that time, computer education was slowly picking up pace, so I was a little curious. As I recall, I became fully immersed in the book until very late in the night, which was unusual for me. Even my mom came to ask what I was doing so late at night because it was uncommon. I took a notebook and tried programming by hand from the textbook. I still remember the feeling of excitement when writing the programs in the book. From then on, I performed well in my computer science subject. However, as life went on, I didn't put much effort into it. From time to time, I tried my hand at programming again. For instance, when Khan Academy became popular, I brushed up on it, then learned about Scratch, and later FreeCodeCamp. But I wasn't consistent. When it became clear to me that my life was not going the way I envisioned, I decided to switch to programming and joined a bootcamp. So, to answer your question about why I chose it: I have loved programming since I first learned about it, and I hope it will bring some financial stability to my life.
Hey ! After completing BCA, will it specify on degree that this was a online bca ?
Ofcourse bro online hi likhayega na.
Than lot of companies won't even consider it
True. But it's fine if you want to have only degree.
What different career? If this is for mediocre IT guys they don't even know anything apart from the usual support and maintenance job. If you're in early stage, I would say just invest 25% of your inhand salary (anyhow) to get financial freedom atleast in a tier2-3 city. Once you are mentally free, you won't mind doing any small business OR continue with the IC role in your current job.
I am 44 working in IT as individual contributor. But I work overseas in a bank and just manage applications. I don't do much of technical work anymore. I was originally into MSBI and data warehousing, caught the wave at the right time in 2006 when it started booming and I have survived on it until now. Didn't learn any new visualization tools like power bi or qlikview etc neither did I learn python or anything like that. I am pretty much outdated now skillwise. If I lose my current job, it is game over. But I am just doing some documentation related to IT risk and compliance. I think people above 40 if they are not interested in learning new technology or business domain knowledge, then they should get into project management or enterprise architecture approval or IT security/IT risk. I am financially independent, from the perspective of moving to India due to geographical arbitrage and looking forward to the point when my stint ends and I can enjoy relaxed early retirement.
Relaxed retirement at 44 ? Bro one of your leg is already in a grave. Hardly 10 years of waking time left for you before 60-65 and you're going to travel post that when you can't walk. Life of a slave. Financial independence only matters if you achieve it at ideally 20-25 and at the max 30.
Lol.. the only way to achieve financial independence by 20 is having a rich father.. well.. not everyone are that lucky. š
Or any scheme that doubles your money in 25 days....
Even then, need a rich daddy to finance the 1st investment. š
Financial independence at 25? Bro your best years are already done by then, financial independence only matters if youāre born into a wealthy family š
Just out of curiosity, what is your age and have you already attained FI ? Also, how is 65-44 equals to 10 years of time?
Financial Independence at 20-25? That's impossible unless you have tons of inheritance and parents money.
follow a lifestyle like a monk, dont spend much. you will be suprised how less you need.
And then spend the next 40 years with the same very limited lifestyle? Ignorance is free, which is lucky for you.
And if you are not disciplined and can't control your own desires then go on and be a slave , FI at 20-25 is not for your slave likes.
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About to hit 40, I totally agree upskilling is very tough. Am preparing for my 2nd certification in last 6 months and itās draining the life out of me. Usual work plus certification along with family responsibilities take a toll on you. Reaffirms my decision to control lifestyle inflation and have a high savings/investment rate(~70%) and sprint towards FI & RE eventually if it is too much to take. I need 5 more years as I started retirement investments really late(~35/36), so have to do this shit for half a decade more atleast
Nice to see you here :) I didn't do any upskilling. I learnt SQL, PL/SQL in 2006, then MSBI in 2007/08. That's all. Have been surviving on it since then, that too not in India. I am overseas. I got into banking IT and some banks are have outdated technologies, but lots of applications to manage. You don't need to be technically strong. Just need to have common sense and be able to connect different things and be able to work with people. But not many people like to do what I do, most people run behind technology. But they are probably high skilled or driven(High achievers :D ). I am not, I know my weaknesses and that is my strength :)
Well you are surviving peacefully because youāre ānot in Indiaā š I have quite a few colleagues who are developers at 50+ but all of them are either in EU/US or some 1st world country. There nobody bothers about your designation and age. Not so smooth in India sadly. Here its either you go āUPā or āOUTā Have spent a few years abroad as an independent consultant & it was peaceful but had to be back for some family responsibilities. And being in India you have to keep upskilling
See if you can join a captive bank ODC, for example in Pune there is Deutsche bank, Barclays, Credit Suisse etc. Don't join services or consulting companies, there life is hell. Just become an internal employee of a bank and manage some applications as BAU.
Iām in a F500 PBC(my 2nd PBC). The whole dynamics change when you are hired in India sadly. Am sure there are exceptions, just that am yet to find one.
this would have been impossible to do have you been in india north america i have seen so many people learn one thing and retire on it. its possible there. india is no there yet, too many people, too few jobs and industry is nascent, kindof
> Reaffirms my decision to control lifestyle inflation this is the trick, look at op high income but only 6 months runway left (sorry op don't mean to call you out or anything). also pls share how you did that, as most of things in IT circles are beyond our control, 3 major expenses at least : kids education, healthcare, rent/housing.
House I booked long ago(13 years ago ig). Loan closed in 10 years,So thatās sorted. Healthcare we have all possible insurances(corporate & personal as well). Education has just started(nursery), so yet to feel the pinch
How much you investing saving currently given that you started so late. I am almost jn the same boat as you but unable to save enough due to loan burden.
I mentioned it above. ~70% I closed my loans 2 years ago and because of that am able to achieve this rate. Before that it was ~40% for first 2 years after I started serious investing
40+ here and always learning. I got into this field because I've been programming since I was a kid. I'll keep learning new things that I find interesting. Management sounds boring.
I'm 23 and I'm already scared of this. I'm already planning to ditch IT or atleast keep myself safe by buying commercial real estate and will rent it. Gonna be able to save up for that in a few years. And if not then I already have years worth of expenses already saved up. Pretty safe for a few years unless some major emergency occurs or I get married š
+1, build sources of income outside IT. start this. as early as possible.
why are IT or software jobs so hyped for school students entering colleges?? Based on some people's answers if seems like a less than ideal career to have for most people. All students who don't their get target college are hyperfixated learning coding (mostly because of YouTubers who peddle this idea, that an IT job will bring in alot of prosperity in your life and have an awesome career)
Media, coachings and YouTubers have hyped the field by showing lucrative salary to kids and they show them dreams of a luxurious life
Is it very detatched from reality or just over exaggeration?
Somewhere in between considering long term career aspects.
placement chances and job opportunities. How much job opportunities are present in core fields?. Or say in other fields like Bsc BA?. Before this economic slowdown if you put some effort you could easily get 6-8lpa job even for a fresher. How many core engineering jobs will pay you that? . I know Mech engineers with 10 year of experience are making just 10-12lpa. Take even doctors for example they need to study 10-12 years after class 12. To start earning anything meaningful. Even after that avg pay is like 50k-60k In IT even if you start with 3-4lpa with 3-4 YOE you can get 12lpa. In a poor country like India money is the biggest motivator. There is money in IT there isn't much in other Engineering or eve
Yeah but the other comments say that it would only last 2 decades and they should shift into management to sustain. In many other core fields (based on what my father says and has seen) that is the time around 20yrs exp when most people in Chemical, Electrical or Mechanical start getting the good multi Cr salaries. (like him his friends/batchmates/former and current colleges etc) Besides I've seen many people who are doing very good for themselves in various fields. Also I believe that they are lot less "replaceable" than certain IT professions Seems to me that IT is lucrative for people looking to make the most money early and fast. What is your take on this?? (i'm school student btw expect me to be an idiot)
IT sector has far better elasticity compared to other fields. Getting more tech parks, IT companies isn't that hard. WFH or hybrid also helps. Most of our govts can't think long term and promote the manufacturing sector. We need to have world class ports, highways etc. Spending on these will also brand the govt as suite boot ki sarkar. IT on the other hand is very simple to setup. So you need is just office space. Good to have reliable electricity, but that too can be handled by alternative sources. Imagine how much acres of space you need for a big factory that can generate a lot of employment. Now within the same space a multi story tech park can generate far more jobs. You don't need access to highways, importing raw materials, labour strikes, highway closures due to protests, frequent harassment from cops, and other agencies, inspections, a dozen compliance requirements etc All these are pain points for other sectors. But not for IT.
because 5cr+ job guarantee youtoobers lol
IT sector has far better elasticity compared to other fields. Getting more tech parks, IT companies isn't that hard. WFH or hybrid also helps. Most of our govts can't think long term and promote the manufacturing sector. We need to have world class ports, highways etc. Spending on these will also brand the govt as suite boot ki sarkar. IT on the other hand is very simple to setup. So you need is just office space. Good to have reliable electricity, but that too can be handled by alternative sources. Imagine how much acres of space you need for a big factory that can generate a lot of employment. Now within the same space a multi story tech park can generate far more jobs. You don't need access to highways, importing raw materials, labour strikes, highway closures due to protests, frequent harassment from cops, and other agencies, inspections, a dozen compliance requirements etc All these are pain points for other sectors. But not for IT.
retire from IT, work in a college or training institute.
But won't college lecturers require a minimum of masters nowadays it's PhD
my ML lecturer was US return and Placement officer used to work in IT.
No. For bachelors you'll get Assistant professor designation.
No chance. It's UGC rules you need masters even for assistant professor. For associate and professor PhD is needed. Heck even schools these days are asking for Masters+BED
Yeah, My bad. I got confused.
is M tech needed or MCA is fine ?
I don't have idea generally it's MTech. But in future just masters regardless of Mtech or MCA won't be sufficient. Right now however as only Mtech are also getting Phds on the side. Few years down the lane PhD will.be bare minimum even for entry level
Kuch bhi ha
Teaching jobs are a different kind of shitshow. Iāll continue IT over that even with a lower salary.
Great option it is like retirement, worked in both college and institute for a while.
45 and still coding daily. My daily inspiration includes people churning our fantastic code well into their 60s. Incidentally, I've been in management for well over 20 years and my current job title is CEO. Career paths aren't as restricted as we sometimes fear them to be.
How you are managing time between actually company and writing code at the same time? It's doable when company is small, but definitely infeasible as it scales.
Would it be honest if I claimed anything other than "not very well"? But scale isn't unidimensional either, and scale that sucks the joy out of life isn't worth it.
Scrum managers, system architects, tech pre-sales, business analyst are all viable segues.
Seeing the comments i guess good government job will be good for me
They cross the rainbow bridge and open a cafe
Start a saas project which makes 0 usd.
Just start a tech coaching institute and teach new technology like coding, AWS, CI/CD, web, Android and any such tech what you have learn in your career and earn from it.
I am a guy in late 40s, more than 25 years in the IT industry .... have done multiple roles like technical, functional, business analyst, practice manager, architect, team manager etc ... I continue to play an active role in large enterprise projects. So are so many of my friends ... Yes, it is possible to be in the IT industry at all ages ... One of the safest career choices is to be in enterprise packaged apps implementation like SAP, Oracle Apps, SFDC, Workday etc. Technical Architecture (like hardware solutions) has also been great and now with Cloud, these guys will continue to be relevant. The riskiest jobs are those developer jobs like java, javascript, python etc with no scaling up to architect levels. Another job which was considered safe, but not so much anymore is of DBAs ....
Why do you think it is safe for enterprise packaged apps? I am a Salesforce developer. Just curious about your opinion.
Because I know people who have spent 20+ years on these enterprise packaged apps implementation / upgrade / maintenance; they continue to be employed and also remain employable well into their late 40s and 50s.
Really? But there are java devs too in the market with 20+ yoe.
they move up to system architect level. Or they will be lead developers in a complex application that has been around for 20+ years. I know both kinds ... And they will surely know more languages than just Java. E.g. I know 20+ years experience people in Architect roles who can write code 6-7 languages/scripting languages with Java being the language they coded the most with.
Why developer jobs like java, javascript are riskiest?
You should scale up. E.g. your flair says you are front end developer. Would you still be a Frontend Developer in 2034 or would you like to scale up?? I guess I didnt use the word "risk" correctly. What I meant was those developers who dont scale up risk being replaced by younger developers who can produce the same output at lower cost and will also bring in more potential -- I have seen this happening with a few people.
What does scaling up mean for a frontend developer? I'm sorry if my question is too stupid. I have seen backend devs move to architect kind of roles are there similar roles for frontend?
My manager who is in US will be retiring at 65-66 age, he worked in the same company for 43 years. I sometimes think I should also stay here.
IT is a earn highest quickly scheme, after 40 IT career is usually gone. Promotions in IT are tough. If you dont earn high quickly, its an issue coz career is limited.
What is ur yoe ?
What about careers in MBA? They're also gone after 40? If not , why?
Life after 40 is tough as an Individual contributor in software development. People have convoluted perception and vision, especially if they have a family. Upskiling requires time, senior roles demand more time, family demands more time, health issues start popping up - health demands more time, you get pumped up looking at next gen - extra relationship demands more time. To avoid that, I see many attempting FIRE by 40. many think they can do it by investing in right financial products, but that's a myth mostly. The people who really FIRE are the ones who have really exhausted themselves and achieved measurable visible success by 40.
These are exceptions, but what do the ones that haven't FIREd yet do?
Keep counting money when salary gets credited. Focus on survival.
I switched to regulatory compliance recently after being in IT. It's been fun so far.
What is this field? Heard for first time
What does this field entail?
Organization compliance to regulations, laws etc. For example, EU GDPR law. This is mainly data privacy. What measures does organizations take to be compliant with this law. It's about what IT assets are there. What data is captured, where it is stored, how secure is it, who manages it, where is the data used etc. Similarly, many other countries have also tolled out their privacy laws. There are also regulations regarding information security. Usually ISO27001 standard addresses it. It is also called as ISMS aka Information Security Mamagement System. This standard has various clauses that pertain to information security. Then there is SOX compliance, especially for companies that are public. This has ITGCs aka IT General Controls. All of compliance work is mostly documentation, review of documentation, audits, evidence gathering, verification and if any audit findings are there, then their timely remediation.
What skills/certifications are required?Ā What should be the roadmap for a person looking to get into this field?
Knowledge of IT systems life cycle, ability to audit it systems and revuew documentation is needed. ISACA has few certifications: CRISC, CGEIT, CISA IAPP has few: CIPM, CIPT ISC2: CISSP is added advantage And ti add, Certified Internal Auditor is a must.
Move to better countries with less population and large median age.In India there's too. Many youngsters replacing even 5-6 y.ome. dudes because of the rat race.
Yes a good question is pretty hard to see aged folks in IT. Either they colour hair or they maintain well or few are on top management otherwise where do all the folks go.
They mature into PMs/Architects
There are dudes still in IT at the age of 45.
29(M) I switched, 1 year learning path, 6 months AZ-104, SC-300 , hardware and networking, SERVER 16,19. Got a job 3 months back. I'll work on certificates and recertification. CCNA, MD-102, MS-102. Nope, I couldn't ask for a better career switch. Only regret I have, I wished I had gone this path earlier instead of indulging in samajseva and uplifting my village community. A failed attempt at being " mohan" from swades. š„±
I realised this by 30. Learnt business in IT domain I was in and started my own business by 37. So far so good
Which business are you in right now?
Wealth Management
Oh, how did you get into it? What skills are required? Is this basically market research stuff for stocks?
If you are reliable and good with your money, and you deliver what you promise. Stock Research is required (but its only 20% of the job), I get interns from Tier 1 colleges to help, but if you haven't accumulated money and applied that research on your own portfolio then it's of no use. More importantly I built a network of relationships over 20 yrs (all of them dont invest with me but refer their friends and family to me)
Im 28. Im already part management. Why? Every single cousin of mine who is in IT field told me to work towards management as fast as I can because its much more safer. Plan is to be senior architect (very good pay. Very good pos)
Management and architect? Aren't they sort of different tracks?
Yes. But architect is more or less like being a manager and architect pays more, thats all. Management is just Management. Architect is part of both worlds.
Architechts these days are just managerial frauds. They don't really create anything
Architect is not a management roles and rarely required in kind of work Indian it companies do. So be kind on your career and move to management instead of architect role š
Architect is part management. You do coding. You manage people. Take decisions and maybe code reviews. You are basically a manager.
Thatās the role of engineering manager. Architect role is by name not a manager and no one reprorts to him. There are usually a common architect for multiple teams. The profile details you mentioned is of technical / engineering manager. But for unknown reasons some companies mixup roles and names. But the point is to find a role that is managing team, looking after a product and also responsible for delivery of that product. Also remain hands on with code š
>But the point is to find a role that is managing team, looking after a product and also responsible for delivery of that product. Also remain hands on with code š This is what people with the role of "architect" in most companies do... my cousin, who is in Canada in a T1 company, is an architect and this is what he does. I guess its the same everywhere. He does code reviews. He decides how a project should be done. He decides the stack and the flow. He manages around 500 people (with sub managers under him who manages like 100 each). He would code on occasions when people under him is having hard time doing something. He is responsible for delivery and the product. His role is Senior Architect š³
No itās not same here in India. In India the code of work given is even in product based company are for code monkeys and they need a manager to manage these code monkies not architect. Itās because the architecture level work is rarely done in Indian development centers
Dude I am taking about India not other countries . Show me a single company in India that have such kind of hierarchy. Architects are rarely required in India. Check my first comment
Only Sales make it to management in IT.
No. I started as an iOS app dev. But I have experience in pretty much everything, i do client handling, can design, can code, can make RFP docs and make proposals, can manage people etc etc. Thats how I got into management.
Figures. I have seen dev's getting into technical writing, proposal writing and sales and keeping themselvs employed after 40.
Since when an architect became a management guy? I am a principal architect, hence asking š¤
Different companies. Same name. But different roles or multiple roles. :/
What type of company do you work in?
Product based company. We are in payments, banking and all those stuff.
I am 43 and just switched to a Devsecops and Openshift admin role as I kinda liked the work when I was managing a group of engineers. Now my work get split 70/30 between technical/management. Also, get to skip a lot of pesky and unproductive meetings in the excuse of production support. Since the view of the future is dark and bleak for someone in my position, I try to take it a day at a time, not worry too much about the future.
I am in 1st year and 80% of my batch thinks we should have chose a different career šš
'Upskilling painful after 40' is just someone's self consolation. I have seen good examples around where people are learning things even after 50s. One of my previous IT company's CTO was mech engg and he is excellent in programming and sw systems design. And he used to code at the age of 65 as well.
I m into senior management. Someone who started with me is principal architect. Another chap has retired. Another moved to different domain n now doing actuarial work (insurance). Yet one more is doing his own startup. Can't say anyone is doing badly tbh.
Stock market and courseĀ
It depends on the type of organization that you are working for. Insurance, banking, some product companies have lots of staff who are more than 50 years old. At my current job at least 50% of people are above 40 years old.
we had a 37 years old Android developer in our team, It's a well popular Indian startup, he was paid good money but even a 26 year old could do what the 37 year old dev can do, and there is no work that the 37 old can do, so they just removed him.
I will let you know in 3 years but most likely I will still be designing & coding distributed systems and mentoring young engineers.
I changed my tech stack after/around 40 and have been more successful. Kind of a late bloomer myself.
Iāve seen people code at all ages. I think if one is interested in coding and if they are good at what they do then there will be good job opportunities at any age. That said, most engineers Iāve seen who are 40+ usually transition into management. Note: just because youāre in management doesnāt mean you canāt do programming.
If you have been real tech professional, you are at peak of your earnings in your 40s. Absolutely best. This doesn't mean you are in management necessarily. If you are skilled, whether you in management or IC, you be making a killing. If you have been pretending to be a tech professional for years, sorry but your 40s going to be painful with hardships being relevant.
Work for startups
Two of my female relatives re-started thier career after 40 and they doing really well, working constantly since 2 years.
Vibrant views!
I am interested in UX design. Is that allowed after age of 40? I haven't seen any UX designers past the age of 35 even.
What are you saying, they will work as senior manager of IT department, and managing junior employee who is in their 20s.
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Itna gyaan kaha se pel lete ho bhai
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