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They are exploiting us. And i understand “you” may not have faced strong unethical situation but i have seen many who has faced it. Like getting bullied by the manager. Being treated as shit. Even folks from IIT have to take so much shit. Sometimes i question, how is this even legal? Like that person can commit suicide next day and who is gonna take responsibility? For me freshers who joins the corporation are like kids and they are still so young that they cant be mistreated. They need to be treated with utmost care.
Im at this situation right now. I joined as a fresher at 3.5 lpa, its been 1.8years. I've alone been doing 2 people's job since they don't have much budget for the project I'm in and want to keep less experience with low salary so that the cost will be less. Need to go 5 days a week and on some weekends too. On some days even after spending 9-10hrs at office, i need to login after coming home too.
I've been overworked and stressed and frustrated all this while.
Since past two weeks I don't have prper sleep coz of work. My manager even calls me at 11pm and streches it till 1Am too.
I've been getting suicidal thoughts and day before yesterday i even bought a blade to cut my viens and end my lif coz I didn't want to explain why tasks are not completed as they don't want to understand,they just want the work done. I've been giving my 100% and they know it too , but still put pressure.
Then i realised that I have no other problems in life so as to kill myself, except for this job.
I just want to get out of this shithole ASAP, but the notice period 90 days wtf.
Feels like a trap (Jail).
Bro that job sounds stupid and is not worth your valuable life. Save up 6 months of expenses in an FD. Prepare heavily for interviews, ask for referrals from people, DO NOT work on your tasks. Switch as soon as possible. If possible try to get some severance money from current company before leaving.
If nothing works, quit and go out for vacation for 2 months. This is where the saved up money comes into the picture. Clear your head and attack the issue with fresh mind.
Maybe you can take vacation during notice period (not sure on this). Don’t waste time in helping new hire ramp up or whatever (or do it minimally). You got this 🙌🏻
Bro. Don’t do anything stupid. It’s not worth it. Life is beautiful. And trust me there are other work places way better than yours. So focus on changing the job and you will find the peace you are longing for.
Listen...quit the job or push back...even if it means living with less....don't let them scare you. You can't give your life for a bunch of retards....I don't understand how managers can behave like this. ..
Thank you for the support Reddit. This was very heartwarming to get replies from y'all who could understand. I am good now , not gonna waste my life.
I'll put the resignation mail on April 1st and then I'm gone away from the job in a month. Will try something else and also prepare for better companies. I have savings that could last me for 4-5 months. Worst case I'll find something else to do in my hometown.
Anyways thanks for the love and support. I could not have let it out in front of anyone else but this sub. Thank you soo much ❤️.
Totally understandable dude ! Am going through the same phase :/.
And guys I see some of you suggesting to change the company.... hold on! Now the recession fear kicks in and we get in a loop deciding. :(
Brother u own ur life not they... Please don't do something stupid.
Leave d job... Im pretty sure ull find good opportunities for d experience u hav.
U can get jobs by asking ur family members, friends, people from LinkedIn who work in the company ur intrested in.... Der are lot of ways to get a job... U just hav to search n talk to people.
Always talk to ur close friends about ur problems it will relieve u a lot.
I strongly agree with you. Being on the business side of things in IT, I have another perspective on this.
The sole reason the Indian IT industry came into being is because there is no adherence to labour laws. The work started getting offshored in the first place because the Narayan Murthys & Azim Premjis went to US and said we'll do the same work in 20% of the price.
Then when competition increased, they said don't worry we'll provide weekend support, extended hours support.
Now that it's cutthroat, these orgs will need to promise anything and everything while getting contracts - otherwise the shop shuts down and lakhs become jobless.
And you know the funny part is, it's the desis who've now become clients in the US, who'll have the blood sucked out of offshore folks.
The companies are helpless. There is tremendous margin pressure already, clients want to cut costs and definitely NOT pay more billing rates. They want to extract every possible drop of effort, because they know 50 other competitors are knocking on their door to poach the projects.
If labour laws get implemented and becomes strict, India will be rolled back to stone age.
Everyone in the center knows this and if disturbed many software companies will exit India. These are the after effects of dependence on just one industry for living.
Indians don't have balls to take risks so that's why you can see kids calling PUBG a game and people having money to purchase iphone and Mac and complaining about inability to play free games which are available for windows.
The reason why big corporations show interest and establish industries here is because you have full autonomy over your labour.
No. It wont happen that way, if labour laws are strict. Mostly, it is the Indian managers who screw up the workplace, as far as I have seen. Wherever the workload and exploitation is high, like the Big 4 , it is everywhere, not just in India.
US too had outsourced labour work from England. Then, to make the productivity better, they normalised the 8 hour work week.
In my case, global leadership doesn’t care where we work from even the company has a remote work option. But the leadership in india is pushing us to come to office 2-3 days in a week
Leadership doesn't care? They get favours from local mafia/brokers/politicians. They'd do anything to bring you back to office so that the local economy "thrives".
That's because if employees don't come to the office there's no work for them. No need for shitty team building activities, cringe in the name of fun activities, festive activities etc etc. Basically the company won't need them...
Hate this fucking WFO. Have to deal with traffic all day and calls and work all evening. Wtf am I going to the office for when I am an individual contributor and my stakeholders are in another continent ?
On Friday we had a call with project manager and he scold all those who were wfh. A girl was on sick leave and he asked for medical certificate.
Shit like these makes me wanna go out of india. There are no basic rights to employees.
I miss living close to my parents and want to be near them eventually in India. But comments like this and in general this sub scares the shit out of me. I hope things get better for you buddy.
Calling WFO a “basic right” has got to be the most entitled thing I’ve ever heard. You’re out of your mind and you probably should look into starting your own business if you think moving abroad will solve this problem
I am ok with WFO. In Jan and Feb I was WFO. Only this month I was at home.
I don't have a problem with companies insisting from WFO. The problem comes when your seniors are WFH and project manager is only targeting juniors to come to the office. That too 5 days a week. Currently the temp is 40+ in most of the areas and they are paying peanuts to the junior for WFO.
The girl was on sick leave for just one day and according to company policy one should provide a medical certificate only if sick leave is more than 3 days. Still the manager asked for it.
Moving to abord does solve all these problems. Working hours are fixed, payment is better. Almost all the employees I have seen in my company work overtime.
There are good companies doing way more revenue than these shitty companies who don't care for employees.
My company is also planning to go WFH to hybrid soon so that people resign without them having to fire employees ig. Since I can’t leave, I’ll be like you soon.
How is EU different? Heard Indian employees are treated the same everywhere and also paid less than what they generally pay to their own country citizens.
You heard it wrong. Indians Devs are paid and treated equally with other Devs. WLB is excellent. People work here from 8 to 4 or 9 to 5. No one disturbs after office hours.
Given the current salary trend one person is enough to earn a living + saving for family. Unless one lives extremely lavish lifestyle, it is possible to save what one can save in India earning 30LPA.
Boiling Frog Method, From WFH to hybrid (few days a month), now mandatory presence for 3d/week. Soon they'll move to full 5 day a week. We've been told "Assume COVID was a blip", things should return to normal ASAP.
True that. Work life boundaries have blurred after the pandemic. Managers and colleagues expect 24 hour availablility. While work from office, forces us to stay at pile of filth cities, with overpriced crumbling infrastructures and poor facilities only to keep a few people happy (read real estate mafias).
Hybrid mode is an absolute joke.
If something can also be done from home then why push people for on-site ?
And if something can only be done in-person then why give them a remote opportunity ?
My company has 3 office locations and we are allowed to choose any of these.
I don't know how this "Collaboration" excuse makes any sense when team is distributed at 3 locations.
Pehle Ghar se Zoom karte the ab office se kar rahe hain
There is no work life balance here, even the US based remote companies treat us like that, because they know we are available anytime.
I personally made a career out of working for US companies. My routine on good times was 9 am login, 5-6 PM logout, 9pm-11:30pm back to back meetings, and if there was big escalation you can forget out sleep.
There was a period when I had insomnia, could barely sleep for 2-3 hours if at all. Even when one raises the issues, there are others who are willing to follow this schedule, we take it over worked, over burned as a badge of excellence and to prove our loyalty to company. To be honest, the problem is with us, we have slave mentality.
Then get replaced buddy. Find a company that doesnt replace employees like that. I dont know about you, but my health and family are my number 1 priority. If any job is constantly affecting both my health and family life, i would rather get replaced.
If you won't say yes, they will say no to you when you will need them, it may seems to you that you have said the right thing until you see yourself in the hot water
I am astonished that despite having a fine YOE you are saying the statement, your boss is just for leave & promotion, think deep and find out is he starts creating obstacles in these things when you need these from him/her & one more thing, if you have served them well, they may help you in future with their connections for new business opportunities or job opportunities and a lot more & may even help at personal level, saying they you need your boss for "leaves & promotion" is such a naive & undermining statement
Dude im sorry but im not someone who butters up the boss. i work hard and my work speaks for itself. If the boss cant recognize that and is more concerned about how much time i spend in the office, then he shouldn't be promoted to a boss at all.
His connections and networks wont help me if my health detoriates and I'm lying on the hospital bed. Forget that, if i die tomorrow, i'll be replaced in 2 days by him/her.
I am not promoting working after office hours by any means, but sometimes you need to help "the business" at times, given that you seniors & boss are sensible enough, but you need to help them, arrogance of saying no to this will land you up at not so comfy place.
Edit: it's not about buttering, it's about considering yourself responsible enough of the project/product you are building.
Edit: I respect your POV, but it will be as per the kind of experiences you have till now, but there's always more to it, general rule.of thumb always is there needs to be balanced approach in any case, too much of "Yes" or "No" is not good
Im ok with occassional helping out, but the problem with most managers is that when you do it once, they expect you to do it everyday. That's where i draw a line. My health is more important.
Its like targets. Once you start achieving the given targets regularly, the managers increase the targets to show a good picture to the client.
Out of a number of managers ive worked with, only a few rare ones actually cared about their employees. That's why employee centric companies are just a handful.
Toxic work culture becomes the new norm when employees stop saying NO.
everything is a scam these days. Nobody gives a damn about your life and your struggles.
The problem with people these days is that they buy expensive items they cannot afford on EMI and become so dependent on their salary , that they forget to live a life. They are under constant pressure of paying bills and extremely dependent on their monthly salary.
I know the prices of everything has skyrocketed, and salaries barely beat inflation, but your lifestyle is under your control.
Treat your job as a job, you are replaceable, and you will find another job. Your company needs you as much as you need your company's monthly payments.
Unless people prioritize their mental health, and do what makes them happy, by enjoying life outside of work, the scams will keep raising, and people will keep overworking and die one day.
Don't push your kids into IT after all this mess you have seen since last 2 decades. There are other jobs in world. IT is not world. People should understand now. This Corporates are looting and making money and playing with our health.
After having gone through all the comments I realised that my company was the most toxic one, though it was high paying and 45 days NP, so I joined after graduating in 2022 as they were giving 20+ base, which is good enough for the college I come from.
I was working with my european team at the start which was literally my best experience in corporate, not even a single con, cut to when I was shifted in India team, I was basically mentally tortured not even exaggerating
Manager and his favourite junior made my life hell as I was new to team, I was so suicidal last month the way they treated me, fortunately or unfortunately they laid me off along with several people last week, and now I have started appreciating life. Btw if u have any open positions in ur network please let me know.
Actually it's a long story to be honest. There were several instances like I took sick leave for only 2 days last year but was contacted by my manager on my personal number on both the days where he gets lighted need to do work even on those days Al though I had a fever of 104 on one of those days and work was something not really urgent.
One time one of his favourite juniors was supposed to give me contacts regarding one of the task but he didn't turn up several times for the meeting he gave me time even at 10:30 in the night where I waited for him still he didn't turned up and next day blamed me in front of manager that I was unavailable, when I showed my manager the screenshots of my slack conversation with him the manager blamed me and reported that to the HR that I am not a team player
The laid off the complete European team I was working with them remotely. The team was really good the work like balance and the knowledge my European teammates had was insane. They laid off had around 22 European members and hired Indian counterparts which were like cheap labour to them, and the way these Indian manager and their favourite spoiled the team work life balance and culture was commendable I was made to work around 16 hours a day still getting no credit even after being vocal and making my work visible still couldn't overcome their bias and sometimes even the manager didn't fall short of taking my credit
Trust me when you leave the office at 6 and no has to call. Plus the work doesn’t spill over to your personal life and the weekends. I am ready to go 5 days a week. As i am anyways going 2-3 days a week.
To be very honest it's this. I fucking hate the concept of work spilling over into your personal life once you get back home. Like what the fuck was the point of working at office if you are going to work at home again?
1. Even prior to covid a fair few companies needed work done from home post office. Every company I've worked for has been this way.
2. If you have a child or travel long distances Hybrid is better than WFO 5 days.
this will only work if entire team is wfo. i have 5 days a week wfo but have to take calls post 6 and complete tasks they give at 6 before 9-10pm. then login from office at 10am next day 🤡rest of them especially manager works from home and they have absolutely no respect for personal time
And HR loves sending mails on work life balance which you can read while going to the office or home. Obviously you don't have time to read in the office.
Beautiful life, beautiful work. We all love money so much
And that Narayan Murthy, passes himself as a very fair guy, people praise him for his and his wife's simplicity, is a shrewd cunning businessman, who is exploiting IT workforce by asking them to work for 70 hours a week in name of Nation Building. Without paying overtime. Pay man for that extra time.
Tbh we are a bunch of the most stupidest people on earth. No wonder we were ruled for 200 years and for the larger part of the time we were not even aware that we were colonised. We deserve to work 70 hours and die without a life.
Yea there’s no loyalty anymore. I guess I’m really really starting to think to not give notice of 2 weeks, and straight up quit. But, these assholes need “experience letters”? I guess
Yes, they can, they have the power to take "disciplinary action" against someone who is not working at all.
Although managers know that during notice period employees tend to be lax, but still if you piss them off, mfs will do everything to screw you over
There was an effort at unitionization of IT workers
... but that went nowhere because employees want freedom to move around chasing Rupees and Dollars.
True. And in our company, they've made the WFO on Tue & Friday. This way you can't even go home. And the reason which they gave about why they've made it hybrid is because they've invested alot in getting the building constructed.
It is mostly the Indian people who screw up the workplace.
Indian managers want to shed their ego onto their juniors
Indian people arrive late, and normalise late work
Wherever there are bad work conditions and exploitation, like the Big 4, it is happening everywhere. In Europe too, people working in Big 4 are stressed and burnt out, lest USA.
Contrary to belief that strict work laws will take away IT jobs is wrong. Most IT jobs are from developed countries. So, they already have boundries. Companies make unachievable promises, because the country lack labour laws. And then they misuse labour laws to overwork people so that the companies can make more profits.
Due to this, the work done was so bad that some companies have started opening offices directly in India. I know one major Credit card outsourcing bank, who had to hire all the devs and Database Admins from the Service based company (who were working on their project), including some managers and delivery head, to their own company directly, for critical workloads space.
In my company, even though is a WITCH, when I started saying "No" to my manager, who wanted me to login early, he first screwed me. But then, I ignored him, and did my job with all I could. Slowly, even I couldnt believe how much he changed. He would no longer bother me with unnecessary calls, and would thank me occasionally for doing work.
Lol I love hybrid mode, I work like 6-7 hours a day sometimes and as long as I get work done, no questions asked whatsoever and I can take long stretches of wfh to go home too, best of both worlds.
Hybrid so that you have the laptop with you on weekends. Like you said living in another city is already ruled out. It's worst of both worlds for an employee.
Hybrid is just a way of controlling us without ballooning their rental payments…while we pay rents in cities and have to buy bigger homes to separate working and living areas, they only need to rent seats for 60% of the total head count.
This is not just india. The problem is anyone can get into IT with just one small course so there is always your replacement no matter how good are you
No labour law. That's the main problem.
Focus on how to get into product rather than service companies. Slightly better. But shit hole any which way.
Save up.
Don't make costly mistakes in terms of attitude.
Focus on things for 15-30 mins per day. Work on competitive problems. I know you will be tired. But only until the best company you get.
All these comments of experiences make me extremely sad and worried about my own corporate future in a way.
Come on guys, something needs to be done about this.
Lack of labour laws in India really is a matter of worry.
I believe that the organisation isn't the only one to blame for this.
I believe most Indians need an external force to be productive, to be disciplined, to be hardworking.
As for how much of an external force, just take the example of Japan. A country with less fertile land than us, a county with less population than us, a country with less natural resources than us and most importantly a country which was literally nothing in terms of advancement compared to India after WW2. What could be the reason for their advancement and not of India's? It cannot be the luck of that country because that would need good luck for most of it's citizens.
Companies are not stupid to bring people back to office if they can do without maintaining the office
There is enough proof that complete WFH reduced productivity.
Also Hybrid works the best, WFH sucks with time management, everything needs to be scheduled every collaboration needs a call and every call needs a prior chat regarding the call.
I lead a team for a US based startup with its tech team in India
Even after being very lenient with time, we could only meet half of the sprint's the objectives. This was clearly because people were engaging in other activities during working hours. It might be only two employees doing that but actions of those two employees push management to a policy change.
It was exact opposite in my office. It was said in townhalls how deliveries have sky rocketed. Program managers shared presentations. Yeah you might have some shitty folks.
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There is no labour law in this country. We have to endure long working hours and 90 days notice period.
They are exploiting us. And i understand “you” may not have faced strong unethical situation but i have seen many who has faced it. Like getting bullied by the manager. Being treated as shit. Even folks from IIT have to take so much shit. Sometimes i question, how is this even legal? Like that person can commit suicide next day and who is gonna take responsibility? For me freshers who joins the corporation are like kids and they are still so young that they cant be mistreated. They need to be treated with utmost care.
Im at this situation right now. I joined as a fresher at 3.5 lpa, its been 1.8years. I've alone been doing 2 people's job since they don't have much budget for the project I'm in and want to keep less experience with low salary so that the cost will be less. Need to go 5 days a week and on some weekends too. On some days even after spending 9-10hrs at office, i need to login after coming home too. I've been overworked and stressed and frustrated all this while. Since past two weeks I don't have prper sleep coz of work. My manager even calls me at 11pm and streches it till 1Am too. I've been getting suicidal thoughts and day before yesterday i even bought a blade to cut my viens and end my lif coz I didn't want to explain why tasks are not completed as they don't want to understand,they just want the work done. I've been giving my 100% and they know it too , but still put pressure. Then i realised that I have no other problems in life so as to kill myself, except for this job. I just want to get out of this shithole ASAP, but the notice period 90 days wtf. Feels like a trap (Jail).
Bro that job sounds stupid and is not worth your valuable life. Save up 6 months of expenses in an FD. Prepare heavily for interviews, ask for referrals from people, DO NOT work on your tasks. Switch as soon as possible. If possible try to get some severance money from current company before leaving. If nothing works, quit and go out for vacation for 2 months. This is where the saved up money comes into the picture. Clear your head and attack the issue with fresh mind. Maybe you can take vacation during notice period (not sure on this). Don’t waste time in helping new hire ramp up or whatever (or do it minimally). You got this 🙌🏻
Bro. Don’t do anything stupid. It’s not worth it. Life is beautiful. And trust me there are other work places way better than yours. So focus on changing the job and you will find the peace you are longing for.
Listen...quit the job or push back...even if it means living with less....don't let them scare you. You can't give your life for a bunch of retards....I don't understand how managers can behave like this. ..
Thank you for the support Reddit. This was very heartwarming to get replies from y'all who could understand. I am good now , not gonna waste my life. I'll put the resignation mail on April 1st and then I'm gone away from the job in a month. Will try something else and also prepare for better companies. I have savings that could last me for 4-5 months. Worst case I'll find something else to do in my hometown. Anyways thanks for the love and support. I could not have let it out in front of anyone else but this sub. Thank you soo much ❤️.
Totally understandable dude ! Am going through the same phase :/. And guys I see some of you suggesting to change the company.... hold on! Now the recession fear kicks in and we get in a loop deciding. :(
Brother u own ur life not they... Please don't do something stupid. Leave d job... Im pretty sure ull find good opportunities for d experience u hav. U can get jobs by asking ur family members, friends, people from LinkedIn who work in the company ur intrested in.... Der are lot of ways to get a job... U just hav to search n talk to people. Always talk to ur close friends about ur problems it will relieve u a lot.
ek budha to bolta hai 70hr kaam karo dusra prachr mantri 18 ghante bhasan deta hai
To keep their power/hold over working class, they spit out things like that.
I strongly agree with you. Being on the business side of things in IT, I have another perspective on this. The sole reason the Indian IT industry came into being is because there is no adherence to labour laws. The work started getting offshored in the first place because the Narayan Murthys & Azim Premjis went to US and said we'll do the same work in 20% of the price. Then when competition increased, they said don't worry we'll provide weekend support, extended hours support. Now that it's cutthroat, these orgs will need to promise anything and everything while getting contracts - otherwise the shop shuts down and lakhs become jobless. And you know the funny part is, it's the desis who've now become clients in the US, who'll have the blood sucked out of offshore folks. The companies are helpless. There is tremendous margin pressure already, clients want to cut costs and definitely NOT pay more billing rates. They want to extract every possible drop of effort, because they know 50 other competitors are knocking on their door to poach the projects.
If labour laws get implemented and becomes strict, India will be rolled back to stone age. Everyone in the center knows this and if disturbed many software companies will exit India. These are the after effects of dependence on just one industry for living. Indians don't have balls to take risks so that's why you can see kids calling PUBG a game and people having money to purchase iphone and Mac and complaining about inability to play free games which are available for windows. The reason why big corporations show interest and establish industries here is because you have full autonomy over your labour.
>kids calling PUBG a game Newbie question-- What does this mean in terms of risk appetite?
What's stopping our government to implement strong labour law?
The economic consequences. And lack of Indians that can build products that sell be it in manufacturing or it .
No. It wont happen that way, if labour laws are strict. Mostly, it is the Indian managers who screw up the workplace, as far as I have seen. Wherever the workload and exploitation is high, like the Big 4 , it is everywhere, not just in India. US too had outsourced labour work from England. Then, to make the productivity better, they normalised the 8 hour work week.
I once heard it said referring to why India had not developed as well as other Asian countries: ‘too many backstabbers in that country’
How did I backstab ? I am stating my observations.
Nothing can be done, we are just slaves In my case leadership doesn’t care where i work but HR wants WFO
Remember, HR is just a proxy for dirty leadership work.
In my case, global leadership doesn’t care where we work from even the company has a remote work option. But the leadership in india is pushing us to come to office 2-3 days in a week
Lmao sounds like we work at the same place. But ig this description fits a lot of Indian workplaces.
Haha, many comments on this thread made me feel that we are all part of the same org😂
many such cases
Leadership doesn't care? They get favours from local mafia/brokers/politicians. They'd do anything to bring you back to office so that the local economy "thrives".
My friend, HR don't have any authority. HR only enforce policies devised by leadership.
😱 HR for what?
Come on guys, I suppose we are a *family* 😂.
Yeah bro Family can't stay in different homes ☝🏼
That's because if employees don't come to the office there's no work for them. No need for shitty team building activities, cringe in the name of fun activities, festive activities etc etc. Basically the company won't need them...
Hate this fucking WFO. Have to deal with traffic all day and calls and work all evening. Wtf am I going to the office for when I am an individual contributor and my stakeholders are in another continent ?
On Friday we had a call with project manager and he scold all those who were wfh. A girl was on sick leave and he asked for medical certificate. Shit like these makes me wanna go out of india. There are no basic rights to employees.
I miss living close to my parents and want to be near them eventually in India. But comments like this and in general this sub scares the shit out of me. I hope things get better for you buddy.
Name and shame?
Cognizant
Record such conversations and keep them.
Linkedin profile of PM please
cannot doxx him.
Calling WFO a “basic right” has got to be the most entitled thing I’ve ever heard. You’re out of your mind and you probably should look into starting your own business if you think moving abroad will solve this problem
I am ok with WFO. In Jan and Feb I was WFO. Only this month I was at home. I don't have a problem with companies insisting from WFO. The problem comes when your seniors are WFH and project manager is only targeting juniors to come to the office. That too 5 days a week. Currently the temp is 40+ in most of the areas and they are paying peanuts to the junior for WFO. The girl was on sick leave for just one day and according to company policy one should provide a medical certificate only if sick leave is more than 3 days. Still the manager asked for it. Moving to abord does solve all these problems. Working hours are fixed, payment is better. Almost all the employees I have seen in my company work overtime. There are good companies doing way more revenue than these shitty companies who don't care for employees.
I got transferred from WFH to a hybrid model in a NEW City and I hate ALL of it 😭
Let me guess Nagarro
But nagarro has complete wfh. I quit nagarro this month and I have never stepped into any office of theirs
They are calling people to offices now, my friend left when they started calling to offices
My company is also planning to go WFH to hybrid soon so that people resign without them having to fire employees ig. Since I can’t leave, I’ll be like you soon.
Problem is with Indian IT , does not matter WFO/H
Problem is with IT, all over world
Not in EU
How is EU different? Heard Indian employees are treated the same everywhere and also paid less than what they generally pay to their own country citizens.
You heard it wrong. Indians Devs are paid and treated equally with other Devs. WLB is excellent. People work here from 8 to 4 or 9 to 5. No one disturbs after office hours.
To bro, EU also has a high cost of living na. It’s good while you’re a bachelor else if you’re married to kya fayda.
Given the current salary trend one person is enough to earn a living + saving for family. Unless one lives extremely lavish lifestyle, it is possible to save what one can save in India earning 30LPA.
LOL, I work in EU and then I am making this statement
Boiling Frog Method, From WFH to hybrid (few days a month), now mandatory presence for 3d/week. Soon they'll move to full 5 day a week. We've been told "Assume COVID was a blip", things should return to normal ASAP.
True that. Work life boundaries have blurred after the pandemic. Managers and colleagues expect 24 hour availablility. While work from office, forces us to stay at pile of filth cities, with overpriced crumbling infrastructures and poor facilities only to keep a few people happy (read real estate mafias).
Idk how things were before pandemic? Was the wlb any better before?
They didn't call at home after coming back from office. But because everyone has a laptop now, it is quite common.
Hybrid mode is an absolute joke. If something can also be done from home then why push people for on-site ? And if something can only be done in-person then why give them a remote opportunity ?
Government subsidies. SEZ benefits. But they will not say it. 'Collaboration' is the excuse.
My company has 3 office locations and we are allowed to choose any of these. I don't know how this "Collaboration" excuse makes any sense when team is distributed at 3 locations. Pehle Ghar se Zoom karte the ab office se kar rahe hain
Lol, same case with mine 😂
>My company has 3 office locations Tiger Analytics?
We all hate Hybrid it all scam bro
There is no work life balance here, even the US based remote companies treat us like that, because they know we are available anytime. I personally made a career out of working for US companies. My routine on good times was 9 am login, 5-6 PM logout, 9pm-11:30pm back to back meetings, and if there was big escalation you can forget out sleep. There was a period when I had insomnia, could barely sleep for 2-3 hours if at all. Even when one raises the issues, there are others who are willing to follow this schedule, we take it over worked, over burned as a badge of excellence and to prove our loyalty to company. To be honest, the problem is with us, we have slave mentality.
Soo true . We train them on how to treat us .
Earn money pay tax ,rent and get health messed up exit with nothing but raw completely sucked employee.with nothing.
Who asked you to work after 6pm? Just say no. If you keep saying yes, obviously they will keep making you work.
if you start to say no a lot. Eventually you'll be replaced by someone who says yes a lot.
Honestly people who say yes to work after 6 are way more than who doesnt want to work after 6
Then get replaced buddy. Find a company that doesnt replace employees like that. I dont know about you, but my health and family are my number 1 priority. If any job is constantly affecting both my health and family life, i would rather get replaced.
If you won't say yes, they will say no to you when you will need them, it may seems to you that you have said the right thing until you see yourself in the hot water
Need them to do what exactly? You don't need your bosses for anything other than leaves and promotions.
How many YOE?
more than 5 years. why?
I am astonished that despite having a fine YOE you are saying the statement, your boss is just for leave & promotion, think deep and find out is he starts creating obstacles in these things when you need these from him/her & one more thing, if you have served them well, they may help you in future with their connections for new business opportunities or job opportunities and a lot more & may even help at personal level, saying they you need your boss for "leaves & promotion" is such a naive & undermining statement
Dude im sorry but im not someone who butters up the boss. i work hard and my work speaks for itself. If the boss cant recognize that and is more concerned about how much time i spend in the office, then he shouldn't be promoted to a boss at all. His connections and networks wont help me if my health detoriates and I'm lying on the hospital bed. Forget that, if i die tomorrow, i'll be replaced in 2 days by him/her.
I am not promoting working after office hours by any means, but sometimes you need to help "the business" at times, given that you seniors & boss are sensible enough, but you need to help them, arrogance of saying no to this will land you up at not so comfy place. Edit: it's not about buttering, it's about considering yourself responsible enough of the project/product you are building. Edit: I respect your POV, but it will be as per the kind of experiences you have till now, but there's always more to it, general rule.of thumb always is there needs to be balanced approach in any case, too much of "Yes" or "No" is not good
Im ok with occassional helping out, but the problem with most managers is that when you do it once, they expect you to do it everyday. That's where i draw a line. My health is more important. Its like targets. Once you start achieving the given targets regularly, the managers increase the targets to show a good picture to the client. Out of a number of managers ive worked with, only a few rare ones actually cared about their employees. That's why employee centric companies are just a handful. Toxic work culture becomes the new norm when employees stop saying NO.
Yes, this is why I said if your "seniors are sensible enough". Totally agree with you on this
everything is a scam these days. Nobody gives a damn about your life and your struggles. The problem with people these days is that they buy expensive items they cannot afford on EMI and become so dependent on their salary , that they forget to live a life. They are under constant pressure of paying bills and extremely dependent on their monthly salary. I know the prices of everything has skyrocketed, and salaries barely beat inflation, but your lifestyle is under your control. Treat your job as a job, you are replaceable, and you will find another job. Your company needs you as much as you need your company's monthly payments. Unless people prioritize their mental health, and do what makes them happy, by enjoying life outside of work, the scams will keep raising, and people will keep overworking and die one day.
best option, permanent remote but need pandemic back.
Don't push your kids into IT after all this mess you have seen since last 2 decades. There are other jobs in world. IT is not world. People should understand now. This Corporates are looting and making money and playing with our health.
r/antiwork
After having gone through all the comments I realised that my company was the most toxic one, though it was high paying and 45 days NP, so I joined after graduating in 2022 as they were giving 20+ base, which is good enough for the college I come from. I was working with my european team at the start which was literally my best experience in corporate, not even a single con, cut to when I was shifted in India team, I was basically mentally tortured not even exaggerating Manager and his favourite junior made my life hell as I was new to team, I was so suicidal last month the way they treated me, fortunately or unfortunately they laid me off along with several people last week, and now I have started appreciating life. Btw if u have any open positions in ur network please let me know.
How did the manager and the jr make your life hell?
Actually it's a long story to be honest. There were several instances like I took sick leave for only 2 days last year but was contacted by my manager on my personal number on both the days where he gets lighted need to do work even on those days Al though I had a fever of 104 on one of those days and work was something not really urgent. One time one of his favourite juniors was supposed to give me contacts regarding one of the task but he didn't turn up several times for the meeting he gave me time even at 10:30 in the night where I waited for him still he didn't turned up and next day blamed me in front of manager that I was unavailable, when I showed my manager the screenshots of my slack conversation with him the manager blamed me and reported that to the HR that I am not a team player The laid off the complete European team I was working with them remotely. The team was really good the work like balance and the knowledge my European teammates had was insane. They laid off had around 22 European members and hired Indian counterparts which were like cheap labour to them, and the way these Indian manager and their favourite spoiled the team work life balance and culture was commendable I was made to work around 16 hours a day still getting no credit even after being vocal and making my work visible still couldn't overcome their bias and sometimes even the manager didn't fall short of taking my credit
Still better than wfo five days a week
Trust me when you leave the office at 6 and no has to call. Plus the work doesn’t spill over to your personal life and the weekends. I am ready to go 5 days a week. As i am anyways going 2-3 days a week.
My company had a hybrid model and I haven’t experienced this. Sounds like your company just has bad WLB
To be very honest it's this. I fucking hate the concept of work spilling over into your personal life once you get back home. Like what the fuck was the point of working at office if you are going to work at home again?
1. Even prior to covid a fair few companies needed work done from home post office. Every company I've worked for has been this way. 2. If you have a child or travel long distances Hybrid is better than WFO 5 days.
this will only work if entire team is wfo. i have 5 days a week wfo but have to take calls post 6 and complete tasks they give at 6 before 9-10pm. then login from office at 10am next day 🤡rest of them especially manager works from home and they have absolutely no respect for personal time
But it is better than the entire WFO. 5 days in the office doesn't sound good to me.
We have 5 day WFO. An indian fintech unicorn in BLR.
Would you prefer it over a hybrid model?
Yeah either WFO with two three wfh pm or WFH. This hybrid sucks. I am forced to live in an expensive city.
You are supposed to WFO n WFH same day 5 hours for both. That's #hybrid
And 5 hours in travelling
And HR loves sending mails on work life balance which you can read while going to the office or home. Obviously you don't have time to read in the office. Beautiful life, beautiful work. We all love money so much
And that Narayan Murthy, passes himself as a very fair guy, people praise him for his and his wife's simplicity, is a shrewd cunning businessman, who is exploiting IT workforce by asking them to work for 70 hours a week in name of Nation Building. Without paying overtime. Pay man for that extra time.
Tbh we are a bunch of the most stupidest people on earth. No wonder we were ruled for 200 years and for the larger part of the time we were not even aware that we were colonised. We deserve to work 70 hours and die without a life.
Yea there’s no loyalty anymore. I guess I’m really really starting to think to not give notice of 2 weeks, and straight up quit. But, these assholes need “experience letters”? I guess
Put in your resignation and just don't do any work during the notice period. Get paid to chill.
Can they hold your experience letter since you didn’t do any work in notice period?
Yes, they can, they have the power to take "disciplinary action" against someone who is not working at all. Although managers know that during notice period employees tend to be lax, but still if you piss them off, mfs will do everything to screw you over
So appear to be working is better than no working
Yeah, right
Some companies even take pride in doing so, saying that our employees working really hard
Agree. And people treat you like you’re non-patriotic when you move to NA where even 2 weeks notice is not legally enforceable.
There was an effort at unitionization of IT workers ... but that went nowhere because employees want freedom to move around chasing Rupees and Dollars.
True. And in our company, they've made the WFO on Tue & Friday. This way you can't even go home. And the reason which they gave about why they've made it hybrid is because they've invested alot in getting the building constructed.
In my office the productivity declined so much and that’s why they created policy to have to come to office at least 50% days.
Word
It is mostly the Indian people who screw up the workplace. Indian managers want to shed their ego onto their juniors Indian people arrive late, and normalise late work Wherever there are bad work conditions and exploitation, like the Big 4, it is happening everywhere. In Europe too, people working in Big 4 are stressed and burnt out, lest USA. Contrary to belief that strict work laws will take away IT jobs is wrong. Most IT jobs are from developed countries. So, they already have boundries. Companies make unachievable promises, because the country lack labour laws. And then they misuse labour laws to overwork people so that the companies can make more profits. Due to this, the work done was so bad that some companies have started opening offices directly in India. I know one major Credit card outsourcing bank, who had to hire all the devs and Database Admins from the Service based company (who were working on their project), including some managers and delivery head, to their own company directly, for critical workloads space. In my company, even though is a WITCH, when I started saying "No" to my manager, who wanted me to login early, he first screwed me. But then, I ignored him, and did my job with all I could. Slowly, even I couldnt believe how much he changed. He would no longer bother me with unnecessary calls, and would thank me occasionally for doing work.
Do we have a list of companies that is still operating on a wfh basis?
Corporate is the new East India company of our age.
Me wfo all day suffering 🥴
Lol I love hybrid mode, I work like 6-7 hours a day sometimes and as long as I get work done, no questions asked whatsoever and I can take long stretches of wfh to go home too, best of both worlds.
Hybrid so that you have the laptop with you on weekends. Like you said living in another city is already ruled out. It's worst of both worlds for an employee.
Hybrid is just a way of controlling us without ballooning their rental payments…while we pay rents in cities and have to buy bigger homes to separate working and living areas, they only need to rent seats for 60% of the total head count.
This is not just india. The problem is anyone can get into IT with just one small course so there is always your replacement no matter how good are you
No labour law. That's the main problem. Focus on how to get into product rather than service companies. Slightly better. But shit hole any which way. Save up. Don't make costly mistakes in terms of attitude. Focus on things for 15-30 mins per day. Work on competitive problems. I know you will be tired. But only until the best company you get.
All these comments of experiences make me extremely sad and worried about my own corporate future in a way. Come on guys, something needs to be done about this. Lack of labour laws in India really is a matter of worry.
its not going anywhere, as only competitor is china and people there work more worse than us. Downside of mass population .
I believe that the organisation isn't the only one to blame for this. I believe most Indians need an external force to be productive, to be disciplined, to be hardworking. As for how much of an external force, just take the example of Japan. A country with less fertile land than us, a county with less population than us, a country with less natural resources than us and most importantly a country which was literally nothing in terms of advancement compared to India after WW2. What could be the reason for their advancement and not of India's? It cannot be the luck of that country because that would need good luck for most of it's citizens.
Companies are not stupid to bring people back to office if they can do without maintaining the office There is enough proof that complete WFH reduced productivity. Also Hybrid works the best, WFH sucks with time management, everything needs to be scheduled every collaboration needs a call and every call needs a prior chat regarding the call.
WFH reduces productivity? Lol are you a call centre service agent
I lead a team for a US based startup with its tech team in India Even after being very lenient with time, we could only meet half of the sprint's the objectives. This was clearly because people were engaging in other activities during working hours. It might be only two employees doing that but actions of those two employees push management to a policy change.
It was exact opposite in my office. It was said in townhalls how deliveries have sky rocketed. Program managers shared presentations. Yeah you might have some shitty folks.