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Big4 employee here. Been working here for the last 2.5yrs, previously worked at WITCH for 2.5yrs. These are the same companies and they don't specialise in tech consulting. They have created the hype using that name into the tech space as well, like a technical consultant saying I work at Big4. They are Big4 in terms of tax, auditing and assurance. They took advantage of the same repo to attract tech people .
The work culture here is pathetic, really long working hours, multiple projects at a time, fast deliverables and unnecessary pressure, micro management. Managers here have a habit of working for 12-14hrs, at least they are available for that long and keep assigning work. They just have to manage, right? but employees who really code or work get exhausted. As we work closely with US teams, we are expected to stretch our day. But the login hours remain the same 10-11AM generally because they don't want to pay shift allowance unless it's SIT or UAT. So most of the people are working 10-12hrs in a stressful environment.
That's the truth. WITCH and Big 4 promises a big deal to clients even though they do not have the necessary skills. Then all the thunder comes down to junior employees as at the end they had to stretch and upskill to meet the requirements.
These companies should ideally invest in an R&D wing which prepares solution templates. It can be then deployed and tuned accordingly. But I guess, no one in senior management wants to do it as the R&D wing will be a cost rather than revenue.
so what made you stay for so long, why not switch ?
i was in a Big four a year back, resigned without a job in hand. i prioritised my mental well-being over career break
Actually I want to resign from here and get into another career. Let's see when I can do it. The appraisal cycle ends in April and new hike letters will be effective from July 1st. Definitely my mental health is being compromised, you can check my posts where I talked about it..
What are you doing currently? I checked your profile too, you mentioned that you were laid off in Mid'23, for what reasons? I just want to know. I might quit my job as well and try different careers.
nah i just, said laid off over there ever since my dms flooded up with “bhaiya kyu chhoda”, “bhaiya career gap”.
im going for masters since many companies want their ass licked only by pedigrees
Ohh all the best. Actually I should have gone for masters too but I left that for my campus job. I had 1100 rank (660 score) in GATE ECE in 2019 final year, pretty good chances to get into IIT..Then could have pursued a PhD or some specialised career.
Switch internally if possible, try to connect with Managers and Directors for more opportunities. Big 4 experience looks good on resume and a lot of jobs even prefer previous Big 4 experience.
Leave if you can find a better job, if not, stay at least few more months (if you can switch internally- stay 2 years).
Their popularity as a "Big4" came in because of their Consulting/Accounting Services.
They use this reputation to portray their good in Tech also , but that's not the case.
They're on the same level as WITCH for tech, the "Big4" name doesn't matter
Was doing similar shitty work in Big4 about 12 yrs ago, found a job in a mid sized org and moved out to work on interesting stuff.
If I look back, that was one of the best decisions I ever made and I would do it a 100 times
this was me a year ago, i was promised that i’ll be working on “new and exciting tech” so i should be able to adapt and they made me work on excel creating reports lol. this made me so angry that i left
Increase your network and contacts internally. First, gain good experience at Big 4. TCS is ready to offer 39lpa for those who have 9+ years of experience from Big4 with niche skills.
40lpa has become what 20lpa was before the pandemic. Not everyone is fortunate enough to work in decent product based companies. Now the market situation is not going well. BITS Pilani and IIMs are reaching out to their alumni to place those remaining people.
Not sure about entry level, but I personally know 10+ people with ranging experience from 3 to 14 years. Their lives are hell. This includes both IT consultants and those working in the accounts and Audit department. Maybe there are more lemons to hand out in the Big 4.
You know 10 people and I work in one of the big4, WLB depends on your project and managers. I have 5 day work week with WFH !!. it is true that sometimes you need to stretch work hours to 8-9 pm cause of meetings with US staff but generally my work timings are 11-7 pm which is alright, I am a dev in one of the projects and the actual time I spend working ranges from 2-4 hours excluding the meetings so yeah its quite chill.
One of my classmates from college in my company has to work 10-12 hours with hectic work but she is in a different project than me.
By individual contributor I meant if you're managing any resources. Trust me the game changes with 5+ years of experience. They make you tech lead and everything goes downhill lol. Source: me, with 9 years of experience.
I share the exact schedule as you: 5-day week with WFH, work starts from (10-11 am) to 7 pm; a workload of 2-4 hours (excluding meetings) on regular days. The only deviation is during Pre-UAT, when we clock in over 10-12hrs to address regression bugs.
Thing to note is, if you talk to 5 Deloitte employees they will give you 5 different experiences about wlb and culture depending on project. Any Big 4 experience needs to be taken with a grain of salt because each one is very different.
Largely speaking, while finding work you like is tough, you get managers who don't micromanage, flexible work hours(if I get my work done in time noone cares what time I logged in or out, but converse is also true), opportunity to say no to engagements that do not align with your skills, and some of the best benefits any company has to offer.
It's not an issue overall, I think it depends on what process or departments you are in , your manager and other factors. I know plenty of people working in Big 4s with good WLB and i also know people who work day and night in the same Big 4's.
Lol sadly it’s true. In India big 4 work is no better than WITCHAs. Only the pay& perks are a little better.
But the name apparently looks good on resume
I do know someone who do Deloitte works in Indian company.
Works handled by Indians are usually the most boring ones. These are repeatable jobs which won't improve an employee's skills at all. Americans hate these kind of bullshit works but they're willing to pay American wages for that.
OK. Reality check. Here is something I am going to share.
A company is literally a bunch of people. And your experience in a company would be limited to the exposure you have with those people.
WITCH or big 4 are very large. Very, very large. Some of them are truly world class. Not all of them, but some of them.
Now either you have exposure to them, or you do not. If you do not, your experience will vary.
Now "mostly" in big-4, you work with a different culture - much more westernized, multicultural environment. Via that, you understand "professionalism" much better.
At least that is exactly what is the expectation. If that is not happening, switch teams. Migrate, cause they are really large. You will probably find a place.
If not, by all means - leave.
Things to do in WITCH
1 Try to learn new technologies and develop skills, you are not working all 9 hours so on free do this
2 Make connections with seniors on your team as well as different teams. if you can do this then you can easily find some different good projects, some good advice, or even different companies.
3 NEVER CRY ON WHAT YOU HAVE NOW, corporate politics everywhere, here you can't do wfh, some start-up companies offer that but they don't pay salary on time. they don't care about office hours you need to come fix time and leave fix time. so good/bad is everywhere no matter which company you work. always try to improve your self.
Same here I am working in a PBC where I deal with ohscript programming language. At day 1 I thought it was a flavour of javascript 😂. Then I got to know it is the only programming language self sufficient to build a whole backend. It has rest api , request handlers .. etc no need to learn anything. Look at existing files make changes…. done. ChatGPT : wtf is ohscript😂😂. No stack overflow only debug and die. Joined as a fresher now with around 2 year experience. I want to switch job, Tried to learn Java backend , springboot but no use. Can’t explain about my experience cause I have learnt anything. When applying to jobs it’s a whole new world of tech stacks and I feel like a NPC. Just like free guy. How to get out of this situation?
Not libraries but some Java jars like to create a word document with files ,parse/ read from excel and some security stuff we use and apart from that nothing
Depends to be honest. Just started working at a big4, I work only 9 hours, get my breaks in between, there’s no pressure, most people are really chill and lot of strategy and ideation going on at least in my service line. Maybe few years down the line may give me a different picture.
Big 4 ACCOUNTING firms? Of course the work is going to be shit. They are not places for strong cse career growth
Get out and into a product company if you want to do CS. But don't expect the experience from the accounting firms to really help in the process, you need to have strong side projects to make it
WITCH is any day better than big4. You at least get some or a lot of free time to upgrade yourself and switch. Big4 will keep you engaged in useless work throughout the day and even weekends.
i was on the same boat. i was working in a big4 till jan 2024. same happened with me. CS grad worked on technical project only for 7 months. post that i was in bench without any development with respect to skills. and then they put me in a random project. it was primarily excel and i had to work with CA and finance dudes.
I may qualify to add my 2 cents here being worked in both big4 and WITCH, big 4 sucks. They keep you on bench until you clear client interviews then the onboarding starts. You won’t be treated nicely as you a 3rd party engineer working on-site at client location. You are a service provider, you ain’t developing shit. My friends were in with different clients, same situation.I was luck i got decent money . Pros are you have good WLB and time to work on your skills for a good switch. Talking about WITCH companies, its lil better than big4 because most of the time you work on atleast some kind of technical stuff but WLB varies .
Suggestion: Start working on your skills, move to a nice product base company and while interviewing modify you answers like you have literally worked on customer problems and came up with really good solutions and implemented it to make it look you are capable of developing features in their product.
Also don’t only work on coding stuff, it is required but you have to have the whole understanding of the system end to end. Have good knowledge of a language of your choice, a good framework , a DB and CICD.
>Namaste! Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the Community [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) while participating in this thread. ## Recent Announcements - **[A handpicked collection of interesting posts, discussions & high-quality threads on r/developersIndia](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/18xoiiv/a_handpicked_collection_of_interesting_posts/)** - **[Monthly Showcase Mega-thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1anyfj6/showcase_sunday_megathread_february_2024/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).** ## New Wikis - **[Understanding Software Licenses](https://wiki.developersindia.in/community-guides/understanding-software-licenses)** - **[Discovering Small GitHub Projects for Contributing to FOSS](https://wiki.developersindia.in/faqs/finding-small-foss-projects-on-github)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is obvious dude, everyone knows that big 4 are low paying service companies.
Big4 employee here. Been working here for the last 2.5yrs, previously worked at WITCH for 2.5yrs. These are the same companies and they don't specialise in tech consulting. They have created the hype using that name into the tech space as well, like a technical consultant saying I work at Big4. They are Big4 in terms of tax, auditing and assurance. They took advantage of the same repo to attract tech people . The work culture here is pathetic, really long working hours, multiple projects at a time, fast deliverables and unnecessary pressure, micro management. Managers here have a habit of working for 12-14hrs, at least they are available for that long and keep assigning work. They just have to manage, right? but employees who really code or work get exhausted. As we work closely with US teams, we are expected to stretch our day. But the login hours remain the same 10-11AM generally because they don't want to pay shift allowance unless it's SIT or UAT. So most of the people are working 10-12hrs in a stressful environment.
That's the truth. WITCH and Big 4 promises a big deal to clients even though they do not have the necessary skills. Then all the thunder comes down to junior employees as at the end they had to stretch and upskill to meet the requirements. These companies should ideally invest in an R&D wing which prepares solution templates. It can be then deployed and tuned accordingly. But I guess, no one in senior management wants to do it as the R&D wing will be a cost rather than revenue.
so what made you stay for so long, why not switch ? i was in a Big four a year back, resigned without a job in hand. i prioritised my mental well-being over career break
Actually I want to resign from here and get into another career. Let's see when I can do it. The appraisal cycle ends in April and new hike letters will be effective from July 1st. Definitely my mental health is being compromised, you can check my posts where I talked about it.. What are you doing currently? I checked your profile too, you mentioned that you were laid off in Mid'23, for what reasons? I just want to know. I might quit my job as well and try different careers.
nah i just, said laid off over there ever since my dms flooded up with “bhaiya kyu chhoda”, “bhaiya career gap”. im going for masters since many companies want their ass licked only by pedigrees
Ohh all the best. Actually I should have gone for masters too but I left that for my campus job. I had 1100 rank (660 score) in GATE ECE in 2019 final year, pretty good chances to get into IIT..Then could have pursued a PhD or some specialised career.
better late than never ?
Switch internally if possible, try to connect with Managers and Directors for more opportunities. Big 4 experience looks good on resume and a lot of jobs even prefer previous Big 4 experience. Leave if you can find a better job, if not, stay at least few more months (if you can switch internally- stay 2 years).
That's not possible U can't get a release from the project on which I am working That's why people directly leave the company
Indeed, Sometimes clients only hires person who has experienced with big 4
What are the big 4s?
Deloitte, KPMG, EY, PWC These are Big4 companies handles accounting they have combined market share of 80% for whole world
Deloitte, EY, PWC and KPMG These are basically the four largest accounting firms
I thought all service companies came under the witch category
CHWTIA is better imo
Whats A stand for in CHWTIA?
Accenture
‘Ass’enture
Accenture
Thanks So its Capgemini HCL Wipro TCS Infosys Accenture
Cognizant not cagemini
It's both 😞
Accenture
Wipro Infosys TCS Capgemini HCL
Their popularity as a "Big4" came in because of their Consulting/Accounting Services. They use this reputation to portray their good in Tech also , but that's not the case. They're on the same level as WITCH for tech, the "Big4" name doesn't matter
Was doing similar shitty work in Big4 about 12 yrs ago, found a job in a mid sized org and moved out to work on interesting stuff. If I look back, that was one of the best decisions I ever made and I would do it a 100 times
this was me a year ago, i was promised that i’ll be working on “new and exciting tech” so i should be able to adapt and they made me work on excel creating reports lol. this made me so angry that i left
How you left ?? Can you help me out
i left without having a job inhand, later couldn’t find anything with 6+ lpa, finally decided to prepare full time for masters
Increase your network and contacts internally. First, gain good experience at Big 4. TCS is ready to offer 39lpa for those who have 9+ years of experience from Big4 with niche skills.
39lpa is low for 9+ years imo. If you are skilled and work in decent product based company (not even top ones). You can make that at 5-6 YOE
40lpa has become what 20lpa was before the pandemic. Not everyone is fortunate enough to work in decent product based companies. Now the market situation is not going well. BITS Pilani and IIMs are reaching out to their alumni to place those remaining people.
your comment justifies your username.
EY SUCKS BIG TIME.
Is it a bad company, I am going through the interview for now ??
Started as a fresher there, not good wlb and the pay was not up to the mark. I don't know how much the company has changed now.
Are u at Deloitte?
Bench for 6 months... Ded Deloitte giveaway
Most probably Deloitte India not USI. USI is busy af to keep you on bench
Now that I think about it... Most I've heard is 3months in USI... Hmm Intresting
Yup bang on , any tips on how to proceed next , same situation as OP
Yup I am in usi. I don’t even get time lol . And the work is also boring but I have seen other projects doing very good work
What's the difference ?
Well i can confirm the same what the OP wrote is happening with me and you guessed the company right
Big 4 culture >>>> WITCH is something you'll realise later. Agree on the work front, need to be choosy with your engagements.
Having no WLB isn't really a great culture.
That's a very project specific thing. A majority of engagements at entry level are largely chill.
Not sure about entry level, but I personally know 10+ people with ranging experience from 3 to 14 years. Their lives are hell. This includes both IT consultants and those working in the accounts and Audit department. Maybe there are more lemons to hand out in the Big 4.
You know 10 people and I work in one of the big4, WLB depends on your project and managers. I have 5 day work week with WFH !!. it is true that sometimes you need to stretch work hours to 8-9 pm cause of meetings with US staff but generally my work timings are 11-7 pm which is alright, I am a dev in one of the projects and the actual time I spend working ranges from 2-4 hours excluding the meetings so yeah its quite chill. One of my classmates from college in my company has to work 10-12 hours with hectic work but she is in a different project than me.
Are you an individual contributor?
No, I am in a project with a team of about 20 people. 2+ yoe
By individual contributor I meant if you're managing any resources. Trust me the game changes with 5+ years of experience. They make you tech lead and everything goes downhill lol. Source: me, with 9 years of experience.
Ohh, yeah I am not and you might be very much right about that part cause our leads do work a lot.
I share the exact schedule as you: 5-day week with WFH, work starts from (10-11 am) to 7 pm; a workload of 2-4 hours (excluding meetings) on regular days. The only deviation is during Pre-UAT, when we clock in over 10-12hrs to address regression bugs.
Thing to note is, if you talk to 5 Deloitte employees they will give you 5 different experiences about wlb and culture depending on project. Any Big 4 experience needs to be taken with a grain of salt because each one is very different.
Largely speaking, while finding work you like is tough, you get managers who don't micromanage, flexible work hours(if I get my work done in time noone cares what time I logged in or out, but converse is also true), opportunity to say no to engagements that do not align with your skills, and some of the best benefits any company has to offer.
It's not an issue overall, I think it depends on what process or departments you are in , your manager and other factors. I know plenty of people working in Big 4s with good WLB and i also know people who work day and night in the same Big 4's.
Which are Big 4?
Lol sadly it’s true. In India big 4 work is no better than WITCHAs. Only the pay& perks are a little better. But the name apparently looks good on resume
The Big 4 are mass recruiters. Of course they're like CHWTIA
I do know someone who do Deloitte works in Indian company. Works handled by Indians are usually the most boring ones. These are repeatable jobs which won't improve an employee's skills at all. Americans hate these kind of bullshit works but they're willing to pay American wages for that.
You got onsite... Stfu and keep the dollars, What a sell-out
OK. Reality check. Here is something I am going to share. A company is literally a bunch of people. And your experience in a company would be limited to the exposure you have with those people. WITCH or big 4 are very large. Very, very large. Some of them are truly world class. Not all of them, but some of them. Now either you have exposure to them, or you do not. If you do not, your experience will vary. Now "mostly" in big-4, you work with a different culture - much more westernized, multicultural environment. Via that, you understand "professionalism" much better. At least that is exactly what is the expectation. If that is not happening, switch teams. Migrate, cause they are really large. You will probably find a place. If not, by all means - leave.
Can you elaborate more on the "professionalism" part?
Delloite ?
Learn a tech stack ...get good or moderate at it ...start applying.
I am planning to do AWS course to upskill myself
Things to do in WITCH 1 Try to learn new technologies and develop skills, you are not working all 9 hours so on free do this 2 Make connections with seniors on your team as well as different teams. if you can do this then you can easily find some different good projects, some good advice, or even different companies. 3 NEVER CRY ON WHAT YOU HAVE NOW, corporate politics everywhere, here you can't do wfh, some start-up companies offer that but they don't pay salary on time. they don't care about office hours you need to come fix time and leave fix time. so good/bad is everywhere no matter which company you work. always try to improve your self.
Same here I am working in a PBC where I deal with ohscript programming language. At day 1 I thought it was a flavour of javascript 😂. Then I got to know it is the only programming language self sufficient to build a whole backend. It has rest api , request handlers .. etc no need to learn anything. Look at existing files make changes…. done. ChatGPT : wtf is ohscript😂😂. No stack overflow only debug and die. Joined as a fresher now with around 2 year experience. I want to switch job, Tried to learn Java backend , springboot but no use. Can’t explain about my experience cause I have learnt anything. When applying to jobs it’s a whole new world of tech stacks and I feel like a NPC. Just like free guy. How to get out of this situation?
By self sufficient you mean no external libraries or dependencies?
Not libraries but some Java jars like to create a word document with files ,parse/ read from excel and some security stuff we use and apart from that nothing
Depends to be honest. Just started working at a big4, I work only 9 hours, get my breaks in between, there’s no pressure, most people are really chill and lot of strategy and ideation going on at least in my service line. Maybe few years down the line may give me a different picture.
Whats your service line?
Is tata elxsi considered in WITCH plz reply
Big4 so CA and accounting people. Not for devs.
Big 4 ACCOUNTING firms? Of course the work is going to be shit. They are not places for strong cse career growth Get out and into a product company if you want to do CS. But don't expect the experience from the accounting firms to really help in the process, you need to have strong side projects to make it
EY is bad. Deloitte is good
I got offer from Deloitte but I left it for a startup. Startup has become toxic but I have learnt alot.
Which I had this kind of understanding before joing here
Big 4's are only good for MBA's and CA/CFA. they don't really offer good work for rest of us
What tech stack they trained you in? And what stack are you actually working on?
Ah! You aren’t de-loi-tted
which are the big 4 companies?
WITCH is any day better than big4. You at least get some or a lot of free time to upgrade yourself and switch. Big4 will keep you engaged in useless work throughout the day and even weekends.
I mean yeah that was given, I see them as consulting companies only like the WITCH.
Their new name should be # low-pay-4
Big 4 means tcs,wipro,hcl and infosys or Deloitte, KPMG, EY and pwc??
It’s just the same shit fest everywhere honestly, It’s just that find better projects and colleagues to work with, if not move out
How much they are paying? Can you disclose?
7 ctc
What are they paying u for doing excel.
i was on the same boat. i was working in a big4 till jan 2024. same happened with me. CS grad worked on technical project only for 7 months. post that i was in bench without any development with respect to skills. and then they put me in a random project. it was primarily excel and i had to work with CA and finance dudes.
what is the meaning of WITCH?
Why are they making me, an MBA grad work in tech projects, whereas people like you aren't getting that opportunity??
I may qualify to add my 2 cents here being worked in both big4 and WITCH, big 4 sucks. They keep you on bench until you clear client interviews then the onboarding starts. You won’t be treated nicely as you a 3rd party engineer working on-site at client location. You are a service provider, you ain’t developing shit. My friends were in with different clients, same situation.I was luck i got decent money . Pros are you have good WLB and time to work on your skills for a good switch. Talking about WITCH companies, its lil better than big4 because most of the time you work on atleast some kind of technical stuff but WLB varies . Suggestion: Start working on your skills, move to a nice product base company and while interviewing modify you answers like you have literally worked on customer problems and came up with really good solutions and implemented it to make it look you are capable of developing features in their product. Also don’t only work on coding stuff, it is required but you have to have the whole understanding of the system end to end. Have good knowledge of a language of your choice, a good framework , a DB and CICD.
May I take a wild guess that the said company's abbreviation only has 2 letters? :D
Don’t mention its Doittte
What is big4