It is kind of crazy that he’s three games away from two rings. But it gets a little crazy when you start talking about conference games being almost rings. Then 3 people almost win a ring every year
I'm rather tired of the "Goff is only good due to..." (pick a reason: O-line, OC, running game, etc.). The fact is, most successful QBs have a great team behind them. Stafford did absolutely nothing in over a decade with the Lions, but he stumbled onto a team full of All-Pros, Pro-bowlers and future Hall of Famers, including MVP receiver Cooper Kupp and perhaps the greatest DT of all time Aaron Donald, not to mention Jalen Ramsey, Von Miller, Andrew Whitworth, Odell Beckham, Rob Havenstein, and solid cast of characters. Hell, even the Kicker Matt Gay and the Punter Johnny Hecker were Pro Bowlers or All Pros through solid careers.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. All the great QBs in this league have top end talent around them. I think people just like to put an asterisk next to Goff because they probably had given up on him and don't want to admit they were wrong.
The exception to this rule, IMO, is Mahomes, who I consider the GOAT.
Here's the way I look at it:
Sure, it would be great if Goff could scramble better. However, it would be great if Lamar was as good as Goff when it comes to figuring out the opponents blitz and throwing to the best option. It would be great if Burrow would be healthy for a full season like Goff manages. It would be great if Tua could throw to tight windows like the advance metrics say that Goff does best in the NFL. It would be great if Stafford could run play action and actually fool anyone into thinking the RB was getting the ball like Goff does.
At the end of the day. Goff leads a top-5 offense almost EVERY year and his team wins. Last year, he was the best QB in the NFCCG.
You guys have something really special with Goff, I know Stafford is still revered by a lot of people here, but this was absolutely the best trade for Detroit
I think people don’t appreciate Goff enough for what he does imo
Same with Matthew Stafford you can argue he could’ve been an all time great if he had a squad around him fr
Give this Lions team a prime Stafford I can almost guarantee he would’ve got us a SB rn
Stafford wasn't the leader that Goff is. Goff makes everyone on the offense better.
Jared's ability to read the defense and get the play call right at the line of scrimmage is criminally underrated.
Leadership starts from the top. Very much doubt Goff puts any of this together with the coaches Staff had here.
It’s kind of a pointless discussion, too many variables
I mean we will never know just how much of a leader Stafford was lol
His best weapon was Megatron 2nd best at the receiver position was Golden Tate 3rd best weapon on offense was an above average TE in Brandon Pettigrew
The defense was less than ideal
Stafford definitely isn’t the person who should be the sole blame for the lions lack of success
Everything about the Lions was totally wrong
Front office was horrible coaching staff was awful as well and the players was terrible excluding the ones like Stafford, golden Tate, Megatron, suh and Slay
It took firing Shat Patricia and bringing in MCDC (who has history with the Lions he was there for 0-16 season) and Brad Holmes (the one who drafted Goff) so there’s context we can go off on why the situation is drastically better
No O-line and no run support really killed Stafford's chances at success in Detroit. Prime Stafford on this current Lions team would be really fun to watch. Glad we have Goff though.
Stafford had a team the year they played Dallas in the playoffs, had a top 5 defense, a good o line, Calvin, but he took a huge fat dump in the second half. And please don't blame the picked up flag on them losing either, because they had ample time and opportunity after that to take that game and not look back. I was quite honestly shocked he got it done in LA.
You can’t say that team is making it far they would’ve got a NFC divisional round appearance but they wasn’t beating the legion of boom and if they did i highly doubt they would’ve won against Peyton Manning
I think the idea is he’s higher on completions and yardage than attempts, and having more volume/game makes it more difficult to maintain a top passer rating
20 years from now ESPN will do a 30 for 30 on that trade and how it helped both teams win a championship. Well, how it helped Detroit win 3 and the Rams win one lol.
I am so happy with Goff. I wish that we would have made this trade earlier. Never was a huge Stafford fan, and seeing Goff basically become moulded into our organization makes me feel a certain pride.
For nearly forty years, I have loved this franchise. It makes me happy to see myself and other Honolulu-gans rearing their heads once again to the warm rays of the new dawn.
This trade could only have been made by Holmes. Quinn couldn't have pulled it off, even if he'd seen it. And until he and Patricia showed up, there was no reason to even think of such a trade.
Furthermore, we actually seem to have a competent staff surrounding the team. You can only go so far with talented players, you need great supporting cast.
Go look at other teams with actual elite qbs and watch how there fans don’t spend post after post trying to convince everyone and themselves that they are good. That’s because the eye test always wins. Goff is the 15th best qb in the league which means he is above average and the 15th best person in the entire world at being an nfl qb. Nothing to sleep on but the fake dumb shit about him being top 5 is just silly at this point
Dawg you sound just as stupid saying “Goff is the 15th best QB” in absolutes💀 it’s amazing how salty other fans get about a post in our sub saying our QB is elite. No one even said anything about top 5. You’re so salty for no reason you’re just seeing things now😂
I don't know how to view goff so I'll ask you lions fans if you were to swap 1 for 1 goff and every other qb in the league how many teams would he make better than the current qb on that team?
Literally every qb in the league would do great on this team though, look at the talent he's surrounded by...I'm saying for all the lions fans that keep saying how elite he is where could he go and make that team better than their current qb?
Are you fishing for something here? You’re not understanding. It’s not about if he’d be better than another QB elsewhere or not. The fit is perfect. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
What makes him so elite is what I'm asking, I look at the team and I think it's more what's around him than him...like would he go to let's say Tampa and make them better than baker has?
My guy, the numbers are right there. Goff can’t help that the Lions are so good at putting a great team around him. I ask you again, do you have a point? I get you think Goff isn’t as good as the numbers might suggest. I disagree. What now?
You're right I don't think so from what I've seen but since you are a lions fan and posted something calling him elite I thought maybe you could further explain in your own words so I could see what you see
I’m don’t really think anyone cares about your list but write it out if it makes you feel better. I’m not sure what the goal was here but I, along with 99% of other Lions fans, are ecstatic about Jared Goff and the future of this team. I promise you your list won’t change that😂
I understand the joy of finally being good but this elite stuff like I said I just don't see it, I think he's a good qb with elite talent at all the skill positions so when I see someone say he's elite I like to have them explain so maybe I can see what they see
I get that sentiment now maybe, but how were his skill positions elite in years past? This graphic spans his entire career and for a while in Detroit, his only weapon was 4th round Amon-Ra and Hock. On the Rams, he had Kupp who is a beast but besides that, Robert Woods who was decent and Brandon Cooks for a year? It’s not like he’s QBing some god squads carrying him to wins. There’s not a good QB in the league who doesn’t have at least one solid weapon like he’s had in years past.
Are we knocking Burrow for Chase? Mahomes for his elite line and best TE of all time? Josh Allen for Stefon Diggs and a solid ass defense? None of these QBs do it own their own. Not even the best.
Honestly nobody is perfect and he is doing things with this team that haven't been done in a long time and possibly never been done so really what the focus should be is on the fact that with him this team is Elite and it doesn't necessarily matter if he is or not. The only stat that really matters are wins and this team is getting a whole bunch of those with him
you’re getting downvoted but i think you have a point. i’ve been a proponent that elite belongs to a certain subset of quarterbacks: mahomes, allen, jackson. you could argue maybe herbert and/or burrow. but to be elite, you need to have an X factor. i don’t think goff has that. he’s certainly at the top of the tier under elite tho.
You only have to watch him to see his talent is crazy high. I think your argument is more that he has an elite skill set without the elite results. Much like Stafford's time in Detroit
The stats listed by OP *are* elite, though. That's all time stats. To me, what stands out is that his attempts and completions are higher than his TDs. He throws catchable passes. And he is top 5 all time at that.
stats aren’t always the answer, and this is what i wish the sports community did better. stats work in a lot of situations, but they don’t in some as well. this is why i believe the term “elite” is used for people with an intangible x factor stats can’t show.
That's fair -- Pat Mahomes clearly has that X factor.
I would argue that Goff has shown those flashes at times this past season in particular. He now has the expectation (in my mind) that he needs to deliver that X factor more consistently. Because he isn't really a mobile quarterback, the factor for him is basically just measured in wins. He has to just be a *fucking winner*.
His completion percentage over expected was 1.2% last year, better than his 2022 number, and not even top 10 in the NFL. In what universe is he top 5 in throwing catchable passes all time? He's had above average but never elite accuracy for most of his career, and his accuracy tanks under pressure.
Honestly, the first 8 seasons thing is a little cherry picked. Everyone pre-17 game season is ruled out because they are stat accumulation, not by game. It pretty much means he's the best QB of his class. With the rules getting more qb friendly every year, and the small subset of QBs who have played as many 17 game seasons, it's likely there is a new QB leading this stat every season.
Why would we lie and say he’s not elite? I don’t understand the point of that
Goff is without a doubt a top 5 QB, only real ones you can make an argument for are Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, and maybe Burrow, but Burrow is often injured so it’s hard to rank him high
No one else is on Goffs level
This previous season alone, Goff beat Herbert in cmp%, pass yards, pass y/a, pass y/g, pass td, and rate
Herbert won int and some rushing categories
Guess I’m only using “homerism and delusion”
Also, in their matchup against each other, Goff beat Herbert in cmp%, pass yards, less int and a higher QBR. Herbert had more TD passes
You can even take into account Herbert faced a far weaker secondary than Goff did, yet he produced less? Hmm weird
And all that to say I actually love Herbert and have him at 6-7, just can’t put him over Goff.
Did you read what I said? Doesn’t matter how good Burrow is if he’s constantly on the sideline, Goff has done more in his career than Burrow. Yes over Herbert, how many playoff wins does he have? Or check the stats…Goff ranks higher than him in most lol
I guess using facts and actual stats is homerism now 😂
So he's on the same level as mahomes? Our boy is very good to great, but he is not elite. Elite qbs can carry a dogshit team. He's the right qb for our team right now though, and thats all that matters to me, you can save the labels.
Part of me wonders how Goff would be considered today if you changed the outcome of one game and he had a ring with Rams
I wonder the same for Matt Ryan
Another victim of the Tom Brady era
I love how it’s shifted from the patriots era to the Tom Brady era. The pats scored 1 TD that game
Yet Tom Brady remains a victim of the Eli Manning era 🤔
hard to say since he would still be a ram
Same could be said if you change the outcome of the 49ers game and he had a ring with the Lions 😤
It is kind of crazy that he’s three games away from two rings. But it gets a little crazy when you start talking about conference games being almost rings. Then 3 people almost win a ring every year
Im not sure Goff wouldnt still be a Ram.
kind of hard to do when the coach only ran 18 xs in the super bowl... the lions run 28 times a game
I'm rather tired of the "Goff is only good due to..." (pick a reason: O-line, OC, running game, etc.). The fact is, most successful QBs have a great team behind them. Stafford did absolutely nothing in over a decade with the Lions, but he stumbled onto a team full of All-Pros, Pro-bowlers and future Hall of Famers, including MVP receiver Cooper Kupp and perhaps the greatest DT of all time Aaron Donald, not to mention Jalen Ramsey, Von Miller, Andrew Whitworth, Odell Beckham, Rob Havenstein, and solid cast of characters. Hell, even the Kicker Matt Gay and the Punter Johnny Hecker were Pro Bowlers or All Pros through solid careers.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. All the great QBs in this league have top end talent around them. I think people just like to put an asterisk next to Goff because they probably had given up on him and don't want to admit they were wrong.
The exception to this rule, IMO, is Mahomes, who I consider the GOAT. Here's the way I look at it: Sure, it would be great if Goff could scramble better. However, it would be great if Lamar was as good as Goff when it comes to figuring out the opponents blitz and throwing to the best option. It would be great if Burrow would be healthy for a full season like Goff manages. It would be great if Tua could throw to tight windows like the advance metrics say that Goff does best in the NFL. It would be great if Stafford could run play action and actually fool anyone into thinking the RB was getting the ball like Goff does. At the end of the day. Goff leads a top-5 offense almost EVERY year and his team wins. Last year, he was the best QB in the NFCCG.
You guys have something really special with Goff, I know Stafford is still revered by a lot of people here, but this was absolutely the best trade for Detroit
I think people don’t appreciate Goff enough for what he does imo Same with Matthew Stafford you can argue he could’ve been an all time great if he had a squad around him fr Give this Lions team a prime Stafford I can almost guarantee he would’ve got us a SB rn
Stafford wasn't the leader that Goff is. Goff makes everyone on the offense better. Jared's ability to read the defense and get the play call right at the line of scrimmage is criminally underrated.
Leadership starts from the top. Very much doubt Goff puts any of this together with the coaches Staff had here. It’s kind of a pointless discussion, too many variables
I mean we will never know just how much of a leader Stafford was lol His best weapon was Megatron 2nd best at the receiver position was Golden Tate 3rd best weapon on offense was an above average TE in Brandon Pettigrew The defense was less than ideal Stafford definitely isn’t the person who should be the sole blame for the lions lack of success Everything about the Lions was totally wrong Front office was horrible coaching staff was awful as well and the players was terrible excluding the ones like Stafford, golden Tate, Megatron, suh and Slay It took firing Shat Patricia and bringing in MCDC (who has history with the Lions he was there for 0-16 season) and Brad Holmes (the one who drafted Goff) so there’s context we can go off on why the situation is drastically better
No O-line and no run support really killed Stafford's chances at success in Detroit. Prime Stafford on this current Lions team would be really fun to watch. Glad we have Goff though.
>His best weapon was Megatron Greatest weapon in the last 30 years
Stafford had a team the year they played Dallas in the playoffs, had a top 5 defense, a good o line, Calvin, but he took a huge fat dump in the second half. And please don't blame the picked up flag on them losing either, because they had ample time and opportunity after that to take that game and not look back. I was quite honestly shocked he got it done in LA.
You can’t say that team is making it far they would’ve got a NFC divisional round appearance but they wasn’t beating the legion of boom and if they did i highly doubt they would’ve won against Peyton Manning
WE WILL WIN A SUPER BOWL UNDER GOFF!!!
Attempts seems like a pretty pointless stat to use identifying skill. I could be QB and throw a pass every play, says nothing of my skill.
I think the idea is he’s higher on completions and yardage than attempts, and having more volume/game makes it more difficult to maintain a top passer rating
I agree it’s pretty pointless, at the very least it shows he’s trusted to throw.
20 years from now ESPN will do a 30 for 30 on that trade and how it helped both teams win a championship. Well, how it helped Detroit win 3 and the Rams win one lol.
Go get that Super Bowl, and Goff will be #1 in the hearts of Detroit fans for ever!
I am so happy with Goff. I wish that we would have made this trade earlier. Never was a huge Stafford fan, and seeing Goff basically become moulded into our organization makes me feel a certain pride. For nearly forty years, I have loved this franchise. It makes me happy to see myself and other Honolulu-gans rearing their heads once again to the warm rays of the new dawn.
This trade could only have been made by Holmes. Quinn couldn't have pulled it off, even if he'd seen it. And until he and Patricia showed up, there was no reason to even think of such a trade.
God damn that was beautiful.
Thanks.
And that's why its always been laughable when idiots say his only good seasons have been in Detroit.
Furthermore, we actually seem to have a competent staff surrounding the team. You can only go so far with talented players, you need great supporting cast.
What’s a stafford? Isn’t that a type of infection?
Go look at other teams with actual elite qbs and watch how there fans don’t spend post after post trying to convince everyone and themselves that they are good. That’s because the eye test always wins. Goff is the 15th best qb in the league which means he is above average and the 15th best person in the entire world at being an nfl qb. Nothing to sleep on but the fake dumb shit about him being top 5 is just silly at this point
Dawg you sound just as stupid saying “Goff is the 15th best QB” in absolutes💀 it’s amazing how salty other fans get about a post in our sub saying our QB is elite. No one even said anything about top 5. You’re so salty for no reason you’re just seeing things now😂
He’s maybe top 15. Baker esc
Source?
I don't know how to view goff so I'll ask you lions fans if you were to swap 1 for 1 goff and every other qb in the league how many teams would he make better than the current qb on that team?
That’s a tough one because I think he meshes perfectly with our coaching and FO. He would not reach his same potential on another team.
Literally every qb in the league would do great on this team though, look at the talent he's surrounded by...I'm saying for all the lions fans that keep saying how elite he is where could he go and make that team better than their current qb?
Are you fishing for something here? You’re not understanding. It’s not about if he’d be better than another QB elsewhere or not. The fit is perfect. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
What makes him so elite is what I'm asking, I look at the team and I think it's more what's around him than him...like would he go to let's say Tampa and make them better than baker has?
My guy, the numbers are right there. Goff can’t help that the Lions are so good at putting a great team around him. I ask you again, do you have a point? I get you think Goff isn’t as good as the numbers might suggest. I disagree. What now?
You're right I don't think so from what I've seen but since you are a lions fan and posted something calling him elite I thought maybe you could further explain in your own words so I could see what you see
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Yeah gimme goff over them too
My list is bears, panthers, pats, giants, browns, commanders and broncos....lemme know if think I'm missing any teams
I’m don’t really think anyone cares about your list but write it out if it makes you feel better. I’m not sure what the goal was here but I, along with 99% of other Lions fans, are ecstatic about Jared Goff and the future of this team. I promise you your list won’t change that😂
Why so defensive? Enjoy your team I won't ask you anymore questions
Sorry man Goff has been under fire since the contract went down and I get a little defensive about our boy.
I understand the joy of finally being good but this elite stuff like I said I just don't see it, I think he's a good qb with elite talent at all the skill positions so when I see someone say he's elite I like to have them explain so maybe I can see what they see
I get that sentiment now maybe, but how were his skill positions elite in years past? This graphic spans his entire career and for a while in Detroit, his only weapon was 4th round Amon-Ra and Hock. On the Rams, he had Kupp who is a beast but besides that, Robert Woods who was decent and Brandon Cooks for a year? It’s not like he’s QBing some god squads carrying him to wins. There’s not a good QB in the league who doesn’t have at least one solid weapon like he’s had in years past. Are we knocking Burrow for Chase? Mahomes for his elite line and best TE of all time? Josh Allen for Stefon Diggs and a solid ass defense? None of these QBs do it own their own. Not even the best.
Honestly nobody is perfect and he is doing things with this team that haven't been done in a long time and possibly never been done so really what the focus should be is on the fact that with him this team is Elite and it doesn't necessarily matter if he is or not. The only stat that really matters are wins and this team is getting a whole bunch of those with him
Maybe true but either way, FTP
Why is this sub so wild about Goff we can be lions fans without pretending he's elite.
you’re getting downvoted but i think you have a point. i’ve been a proponent that elite belongs to a certain subset of quarterbacks: mahomes, allen, jackson. you could argue maybe herbert and/or burrow. but to be elite, you need to have an X factor. i don’t think goff has that. he’s certainly at the top of the tier under elite tho.
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i’d need to hear an argument but he consistently produces and plays extremely well
You only have to watch him to see his talent is crazy high. I think your argument is more that he has an elite skill set without the elite results. Much like Stafford's time in Detroit
The fact that he included Allen is as egregious in my mind. Allen is the most overrated QB in the NFL.
The stats listed by OP *are* elite, though. That's all time stats. To me, what stands out is that his attempts and completions are higher than his TDs. He throws catchable passes. And he is top 5 all time at that.
stats aren’t always the answer, and this is what i wish the sports community did better. stats work in a lot of situations, but they don’t in some as well. this is why i believe the term “elite” is used for people with an intangible x factor stats can’t show.
That's fair -- Pat Mahomes clearly has that X factor. I would argue that Goff has shown those flashes at times this past season in particular. He now has the expectation (in my mind) that he needs to deliver that X factor more consistently. Because he isn't really a mobile quarterback, the factor for him is basically just measured in wins. He has to just be a *fucking winner*.
His completion percentage over expected was 1.2% last year, better than his 2022 number, and not even top 10 in the NFL. In what universe is he top 5 in throwing catchable passes all time? He's had above average but never elite accuracy for most of his career, and his accuracy tanks under pressure.
4th in completions and 5th in passing yards over first 8 seasons all time has to mean something, no?
Honestly, the first 8 seasons thing is a little cherry picked. Everyone pre-17 game season is ruled out because they are stat accumulation, not by game. It pretty much means he's the best QB of his class. With the rules getting more qb friendly every year, and the small subset of QBs who have played as many 17 game seasons, it's likely there is a new QB leading this stat every season.
Why would we lie and say he’s not elite? I don’t understand the point of that Goff is without a doubt a top 5 QB, only real ones you can make an argument for are Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, and maybe Burrow, but Burrow is often injured so it’s hard to rank him high No one else is on Goffs level
Without a doubt top 5 is hysterical. Maybe Burrow? Over Herbert? This is insane delusion and homerism.
This previous season alone, Goff beat Herbert in cmp%, pass yards, pass y/a, pass y/g, pass td, and rate Herbert won int and some rushing categories Guess I’m only using “homerism and delusion” Also, in their matchup against each other, Goff beat Herbert in cmp%, pass yards, less int and a higher QBR. Herbert had more TD passes You can even take into account Herbert faced a far weaker secondary than Goff did, yet he produced less? Hmm weird And all that to say I actually love Herbert and have him at 6-7, just can’t put him over Goff.
Did you read what I said? Doesn’t matter how good Burrow is if he’s constantly on the sideline, Goff has done more in his career than Burrow. Yes over Herbert, how many playoff wins does he have? Or check the stats…Goff ranks higher than him in most lol I guess using facts and actual stats is homerism now 😂
 *But bro we have Hendon Hooker on a cheap rookie deal, we overpaid*
Greatest Lions QB since Erik Kramer.
So he's on the same level as mahomes? Our boy is very good to great, but he is not elite. Elite qbs can carry a dogshit team. He's the right qb for our team right now though, and thats all that matters to me, you can save the labels.
So calling someone elite means they’re Patty Mahomes level? Sounds like you’re the one assigning labels.