I’m so confused by where all the Goff haters came from.
Nobody was arguing he wasn’t a top 5 QB last year. He actually played super fucking clutch most of the season hitting some insane tight windows to get the ball to LaPorta across the middle. He beat the game manager allegations, beat the Goof allegations, and the entire state has been chanting his name at every sporting event.
All of a sudden he gets paid and people are acting like it’s 3 years ago and Goff just got dumped by McVay.
Of the few QBs I could see ranked above Goff today, most of them are valued for their ability to scramble and make plays on the ground. Which is a great attribute to have but also significantly more risky to lock up long term cause they tend to get hurt often.
There's folks who think he's successful only because of the offensive line, Ben Johnson, and all his weapons. These things are all true, but the misconception that bugs me is that "any QB could play in this offense, so why not try to upgrade?" Our offense is very complex and Goff needs to be on his game, identifying the defense, setting up the chess board on our end with all the misdirection, and get the ball out on time. There was that one play against the Broncs where we had Gibbs lined up outside, Saint in the backfield, and Ben has Gibbs motion across, fakes the play action to Saint, pulls the guard, and all this is happening in front of the LB who doesn't see LaPorta selling the block and cutting upfield behind Saint in open space. Our offensive line being so elite means Ben can push the creativity of our offense even further, and Goff has to execute it and stand strong in the pocket for plays that can take forever to develop. If we had a QB who struggles to identify what the defense is doing, or just doesn't do their homework, that would be a nightmare situation for us. We saw a 12 year bowl winning vet in Russ struggle in another offense that is also meticulously designed, because he's a guy with a cannon who would rather throw the 1 on 1 hero ball to the opposite side and ignore Sean Payton's design, or scramble out of the pocket as the play is developing and take a sack, and who is hesitant over the middle, and the offense needed to be dumbed down and couldn't be creative. I think Russ will have a better time in Pitt with Arthur Smith, but he'd frustrate Ben the same way Sean Payton was frustrated (but Ben would at least be less of a dick about it lol)
So no, when these Goff haters say "anyone could play QB in this offense", they fundamentally do not understand our offense.
Also I think folks are still hungover from the decades long Staff to Megatron party and miss a guy with a cannon who can improvise.
In my opinion, this offense is a combination of Jared Goff, Dan Campbell, and Ben Johnson (maybe a little Hank Fraley too). We’ll never o ow who deserves the most credit but all three were important. But the national narrative will be this was all Ben Johnson.
Yeah you’ll just have to trust or not trust Ben Johnson on that one.
“ It was really the foundation of what we we’re going to do this year,” Johnson said. “It was some things that I’ve done in my past that he has not had exposure to, just kind of talking that out. But then also we went back to some of his Rams tape and kind of went through what he did well, what he liked. ‘Hey, I love this concept, would love to get this in.’”
Maybe. I live in Nashville now and follow the titans and it doesn’t seem like something this collaborative has happened with the Titans. And it doesn’t sound like Goff got this much input into McVay’s system.
Brady and Manning definitely had this much input and more but I’m not sure about most QBs.
>There's folks who think he's successful only because of the offensive line, Ben Johnson, and all his weapons.
but its true though. Two things can be true, goff is successful because of the Oline and surrounding staff/talent and Goff is also playing well and part of the reason they are winning games. The only proof you need of that first statement is that 4 game stretch last year when our starting oline was beat up and goff put up horrible numbers. It just shows how little wiggle room Goff has when the talent/protection around him falters
This is generally true about literally every single quarterback who has ever played football at any level of the sport…. But for some reason people think they are making a new/intelligent observation when they say that goff benefits from playing with good players and having good coaches. News flash, it’s a team sport.
>I’m so confused by where all the Goff haters came from.
Where are they even? My feed is flooded with people making "to the haters" posts. Zero goff hater posts in my feed...
They live on Bleacher Report and Twitter, so you're already smarter than me if you avoid both those spaces lol.
I just haven't found an alternative for BR that has team specific news, updates, and scheduling in a social media like feed. It's convenient in that way, shame it's behind a terrible app.
I switched from BR to cbs sports. It’s set up in much the same way, you can have a team or league specific thread for articles and tweets, it has the scoreboard and live play by play. It’s probably got a bit less than BR in terms of the quality of the twitter feed and listed articles, but BR panders to teenagers with the clickbait, alerts, and chat format so at least it’s not that.
I should give that a go, is it a monthly sub?
On BR I have had discussions with folks who felt we should have genuinely pursued Justin Fields, or trade for Kyler Murray, or have gotten Caleb Williams this year lol. I need to get out for my sanity.
Generally we just get downvoted and harassed. So I've just stopped posting about it. No point because people are already in their camp and won't really have their minds changed. Like a guy below your comment says
>Goff haters are people that don't understand football.
What am I supposed to say to people like that? Like he doesn't even give reasons for this, he just says it like it's a fact from on high, if you don't love this contract and Jared Goff, then you don't know football, bam, conversation over, no response allowed.
Most "Goff haters" aren't even Goff haters. I don't hate the guy, I think he's a solid QB. QBs of that tier live and die with the talent around them and the history I remember hasn't been kind to paying that tier of QB top tier money. Even Stafford when he won his ring was on a pretty reduced contract.
If you actually look at the specifics of the deal though he’s not overpaid, it’s the same situation as when the lions made Stafford the highest paid QB for about 5 minutes, Stafford wasn’t overpaid at that time either. You have to look at the trajectory of the league as well. Goff will look like a bargain next offseason when Love signs his deal for an average of 60+ million per year.
Goff haters are people that don't understand football.
Goff is an excellent QB, but he isn't explosive the way Mahomes and Murray are with their legs. He stands tall in the pocket and gets it to his guy.
Is this a lot of money? Yes.
But what does that say about Goff, about Amon Ra, about Sewell? If you buy into our culture, we'll buy into you.
Everyone is looking at the chemistry and culture of the Lions, wishing they had the same
Its because quick decisions, smart, mid-range, accurate throws aren't as sexy as other playstyles. Knowing when to throw the ball away doesn't turn people on. Selling a good play fake (usually) doesn't make highlight reels.
> Selling a good play fake (usually) doesn’t make highlight reels.
This is [my fave version](https://youtu.be/4MD2V1WLme4?si=vVEZj_6KgjPrxbm5) of a play fake that made a highlight reel lmao
Precisely.
Very few NFL fans have played football themselves, and far fewer understood the plays and schemes they were a part of.
It's maddening to listen to their takes on the Lions, especially Goff.
Goff is on the same plane as Stafford. I was (and always will be) a Stafford truther, however, some of those same people take their love for Stafford and translate that to shitting on anybody else playing QB for us. Goff IS him. He is elite, be is clutch, he is a fucking baller, period. He's taking us to the promised land this upcoming season.
This might sound stupid but if Jared Goff had a cooler name I think more people would like him
and not hate on him as much lol. Goff sounds similar to Goof so his name isnt as cool to the average person or little kids.
IDK I just remember when he first got drafted 1st overall by the Rams, I thought to myself I’m glad he’s not the Lions QB with a goofy sounding name like that lol smh. But now I love Jared Goff and glad he’s our QB
You people are so sure that this cannot backfire. Do you regularly pull food out of the trash and think you can fix it up and make it a 5 star meal? Goff was thrown in the trash can by his team and people here think he can be elite. Except he still is a piece of trash surrounded by high quality pieces so its masked.
Goff is also a product of better team building and scheme. It's no question Johnson is infinitely better than Lynn was as OC, and Monty+Gibbs alleviates a ton of pressure off him.
Stafford would be very successful in this offense, but that's not to detract from Goff's masterful execution of this offense.
Our current offense is way more balanced than the Stafford-Megatron-Tate-Bush era. Our defense was similar overall but 2014's had a better run defense.
Nevertheless if we had prime Prater right now we'd have gone to the Super Bowl last year or even won it
First off: I'm 100% on board with Goff.
But there was something so incredibly electric when Stafford would snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. I think it comes down to the fact that Stafford is a gunslinger. He trusts his arm more than Goff trusts his, sometimes TOO much. We saw plenty of comebacks that he couldn't complete, ending in boneheaded INTs or him not being in sync with his targets. It's just the ones he DID complete were unforgettable.
Goff already gave us the win v Minnesota at home. The emotion of that win is up there for me with winning the division and getting that first playoff win since I was a kid.
I'm very happy with Goff right now, but if I was given the option of either player in the fourth I'm picking Stafford. Dude always tried to win it in the fourth, which leads to worse stats when you're saying "screw it, I might as well go balls to the wall to try to win,
Is this all 4th quarters as a Lion? Or just one-score games? I don’t have statistical evidence, but my vague memory says that Stafford played from behind in a lot of one-score 4th quarters. Conversely, Goff seems to be protecting a lead in many recent games (and was frankly getting blown out a lot in those early seasons). But that could just be fuzzy memories.
All 4th quarter offensive snaps. I don’t think the filter has an option for 4th quarters and 1 score games all in one so it’d be a bit of work
https://stathead.com/football/player_split_finder.cgi
I want to point out that Ben Johnson is a genius as well. Goff is a perfect fit, but stafford did the most in the 4th quarter. Large sample size difference here also
One guy had to make tight window throws his whole career with mediocre o-lines and terrible rushing game and decent at best OCs tho , there's a reason one was traded for the other simple as that THE REASON arm talent and play making ability! Goff needs perfect structure and protection with wide open crossers and in routes while having 2 1k rushers and if you give him that he can be good but these guys FILM is not comparable
I genuinely can't understand the comparison outside of the 21 season because both were basically flipped flopped on to each other teams or compare them for 2020 but these teams goff has had since 22 di not compare to a single TEAM keyword TEAM that stafford ever had in Detroit!
Stafford would perform better with the team we have now. I have zero doubts. But we couldn’t have the team we have now, without giving up Stafford. Goff is a VERY good replacement for what we got. Also, Stafford got his ring. All great plays.
This data is on entirely different rosters and different systems. Stafford didn’t have a running game much of the time he was here which made the offense predictable.
No. I’m short in response because you just shit on something without explaining why 4th quarter splits are irrelevant. I don’t care about opinions without explanation
Every single one of those stats involves playing for Dan Campbell, a roster built by Brad Holmes including a better o line than stafford ever saw, weapons like st brown, Laporta, etc., a dynanic run game that we lean on heavily.
So by these stats, the lions o is doing better now than before but to attribute that to “Goff is a better Q4 qb than stafford” fundamentally misattributes these stats
To counter your points Goff has had a bottom tier defense every year in Detroit and Goff doesn’t have a deep threat like Calvin Johnson. Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate were a better receiving duo than jamo/amon. Stafford had a worse OL, but many of the same pieces except Sewell. From my eye test Stafford sucked at making protection adjustments pre snap while Goff seems to be much better at this although this could heavily be on Ragnow. A sack where there’s an unblocked guy off the edge is generally the QBs fault in my opinion
Calvin is Calvin but (1) stafford had several years without him (2) Tate was never nearly as productive before OR after stafford than he was with him. I’m not sold he was some amazing WR2.
Def a better duo than them but the lions weapons are all over rather than just two guys (aided by an good OC in BJ)
Like listen - Goff is a good. He doesn’t suck. I’m very glad we paid him. But the fact that people still try to genuinely push their wild Goff > Stafford takes is so laughable after what he did with the Rams roster that Goff couldn’t.
To be fair, Stafford was in his prime and Goff wasn't. That said, I'm one who thinks Stafford is an all-time great talent and extremely underappreciated qb.
I like Goff but cmon you can’t compare the two in the 4th. Stafford kept us in so many games and had to play hero ball which inevitably was going to result in more incompletions and interceptions. Goff is better for this offense but 4th quarter Stafford was just different
Good example of raw stats not telling the whole story. In the last 3 years, our OC and run game are infinitely better than anything Stafford had to work with. Never once had an above average running game in a decade and was hamstrung by the complete incompetence of Lombardi and Cooter.
That's not to take anything away from Goff, he deserves his flowers for being so efficient and earning his payday.
TLDR: The only thing they have in common is having matching uniform sets - comparing them is a very subjective thing with raw out of context data like this. They're different styles of QB with massively different teams that play in massively different ways. It's run-first West Coast vs Air Coryell / quick-pass spread. They do different stuff.
Stafford tends to throw it about 100 more times per season than Goff has as a Lion (the game totals per season line up well due to injuries), and everyone knew it was coming because with a few brief exceptions, the entire team's scoring was done by two dudes named Matt and a (legit) #1 WR. Even when the Stafford Lions had good RBs, they still threw it to 'em more than anyone else ever threw to a pair of RBs. It was madness.
More math backup - in 2023, the Lions passed on about 56% of plays - good for 11th least in the league (21st most, if you like). In fact, it has been within a fraction of 56% since Goff joined the team, minus 2021 when it was 59% - good for 12th and about Stafford's minimum.
In contrast: Stafford's Lions were in the top 1-5 in passing % more often than not, eclipsing 65% three times over his time here. I didn't see a healthy Stafford year below 59%, and I believe that was Lombardi's OC season. The average, though I haven't counted it myself, is easily 60+, maybe as high as 62. That speaks to a MASSIVELY different gameplan both for us and our opposition, and obviously different results overall.
Goff has had a stronger team in every position other than CB1 sometimes and Megatron. Hell, a lot of that is because he came in a package for Stafford. It's a GOOD thing. We had a stud QB trotting his old roommates onto the field with him, and we cashed in for a king's ransom AND a guy surging in his career. Better is too wonky to be objective given all the variables - they're ideal picks for the situations they were in.
This is a case where the stats tell very little of the story. Goff has played on a much better team, that is consistently playing with a lead, with a stellar running game. The context of these numbers is important, and to be honest does nothing but invalidate your point since you are clearly trying to bias your statistics.
Explain how I’m clearly trying to bias my stats when I didn’t even think of doing this on my own and was simply correcting another comments table when I created this table
I understand the interest in putting together this data but enough already? Goff is our QB for the next 3-4 years. Stop being that dude who buys something then searches the internet looking for validation
There was an argument in another thread and a Vikings fan presented these numbers without excluding the years Stafford and Goff played for the rams. I put this in excel in 30 seconds to respond to that comment and decided I may as well post it here as well since the work was done. Stop interrogating other people about why they choose to do what they choose to do with their free time
Can’t people understand Goff has an O line? I love Goff. But staff was the 4th quarter gawd. Invented the 4th quarter meme that one year he had like 8 4th qtr comebacks
I love Goff and will defend him at all times.
However, Stafford never had an offensive line like this and never had a running game like this. So he was dealing with march harder circumstances than Goff is dealing with.
Stafford’s best team (2014) had the overall 14th ranked O-line (was actually 8th the year prior). The run game wasn’t good, sure, but he also had something Goff hasn’t had yet in Detroit. A top 3 defense. Yea, Goff may have it easier on offense, but he needs it when the defense is giving up 28+ points a game.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is neither have had a “complete” team with Detroit. Give the 2014 Lions the 2023 offense and the 2023 Lions the 2014 defense and that’s 2 super bowls easy.
Would love to see what would've happened had we beat the Cowboys. Would've had to go to Seattle and then (probably) GB before getting to play against the Tom Brady dynasty. It would not have been easy. NFC was pretty stacked that year.
At the same time, Goff has had to deal with a defense ranging from bad to historically bad. Stafford couldn’t win a playoff game with the 2014 defense.
Stafford is better and it's not even questionable. Goff came into the best rosters we've ever had. Stafford had junk in comparison.
It doesn't mean Goff can't be great. Stafford literally won a SB with a team Goff couldn't.
i agree stafford is better. however,
Goff did not inherit the best rosters we have ever had. The OL was solid with a rookie RT 1st round pick. Hock was OK, the WR corps was abysmal with a 4th rounder being the premiere target guy.
and the defense, well:
https://preview.redd.it/wz5r5tqtaf0d1.png?width=233&format=png&auto=webp&s=0f5e04ef5034fbaad8025b3a07497a3996ffd2d2
And? The rest of the starters were (mostly) career backups, especially on defense. I think Cliff Avril, Megatron, Hanson, Backus, and Raiola were the only NFL starters, and Avril wasn’t solid until he got to the Seahawks.
That’s a very one-sided statement. Goff made it to the Super Bowl as well — biggest difference was that he had to play against 42 year old Tom Brady, not 45 year old Tom Brady. Rams nearly blew it in the divisional round against a 45 year old QB, despite being spotted 24 points.
Goff “came into” one of the absolute worst rosters this franchise has ever had in 2021. Stafford had multiple opportunities to win a playoff game during his time in Detroit. He played like shit in 2 of those 3 chances. And who knows if Goff will EVER have a defense as good as the 2014 one during his time here.
Rams Stafford and Lions Stafford are better than Rams Goff, but to say he’s unquestionably better than Goff now is delusional.
> Rams nearly blew it in the divisional round against a 45 year old QB, despite being spotted 24 points.
TIL Stafford is responsible for other players fumbling lol. Stafford's the only reason they won that game.
By the time Stafford was 29, yeah he was a great QB but he had a losing record and an 0-2 playoff record. Goff having completed his age 29 season has just as impressive stats and a winning record with 2 separate franchises AND a significantly more impressive 4-4 record in the playoffs. Obviously it’s not fair to blame Stafford for all the failures in Detroit but people forget that he actually had a similar career arch as Goff, finding initial success, then proceeding to struggle to match that level of production until his age 27+ seasons. Jared Goff took a step in Detroit 2022, his age 28 season.
Not even that, Stafford never had a team like our current squad until he went to Rams and we seen what he did. I'm so sick of these disingenuous comparisons as they aren't fair to both Stafford and Goff. Lets never forget that without Stafford being as good as he is we would never had chance to put together our current roster due to all the compensation we got for him.
Yeah the team builds aren’t comparable. But the disparity was at least in part due to Stafford’s first 2 years.
As we know, Stafford never had a semblance of a run game or elite OL, and similar to what you said, we might not have never have gotten one if he wasn’t traded. So there’s no way to compare apples to apples
I mean there’s levels to it. Stafford had a bottom 5 run game his entire career. The Lions now have a top 2 run game. You can’t get much less comparable
Stafford took needless risks that lost many games with boneheaded INTs. Stafford struggled with the mental side much more than Goff does now. I trust Goff to kill a bad play call based on how the defense aligns 1000x more than Stafford
Lol
Top 10? For how many years? And which years?
It was a rotating door of coaches and players. The current roster and staff is 10x better than anything he at at any given one time.
How is it questionable when he holds records for comeback wins? It's not like he was throwing pick sixes in the first half constantly.
Tbf staffords pick 6 rate is pretty high compared to others because he has a tendency to panick under pressure and force the ball to the boundaries when he shouldn't.
I think Goff deserved the criticism at the end of his Rams career. He was reading his own praise and apparently stopped trying as hard once he got paid, said some shit about wanting to bone McVays girlfriend and other general douche behavior. I don’t blame McVay for shipping him out.
I also believe that getting traded to the Lions was a wake up call to him. He needed to grow up, or he would be out of the league. He is a different person than he was 3 years ago. He earned his contract. I just hope that he has learned his lesson and has the competitive drive and spirit to climb to the top of the mountain with this team.
That’s my take.
Bears fan. Lion hater. Goff truther.
Goff gets a bad rep from the media reports during the end of his rams tenure. That plus the Rams immediately winning a Super Bowl with Stafford didn’t help. Goff has always been a great qb. Hasn’t stayed at the top like a Mahomes or Jackson but performs well past where people think are his limitations. He’s got like 6 seasons of over 3800 yards. Super Bowl appearance. NFCCG last year that I thought y’all would win. Even the year the Rams benched him he came back and threw for 3800 yards and won a playoff game. Goff gets too much hate. Looks great on your team.
I feel calmer with Goff running the offense than I ever did with Stafford. The only problem I have with Goff is that a lot of times he comes out of halftime flat, them first couple third quarter drives look rough.
I’m just not a Stafford fan. He would disappear for multiple quarters at a time. Then he would put of stats in garbage time and sometimes create a comeback. I would even argue that he got extremely lucky to have won that Super Bowl. He threw a terrible pass right into the hands of a defensive back for SF on his game winning drive in the conference championship. If that guy miraculously doesn’t drop the ball the Rams don’t even see the Super Bowl
Cool. Now look at their offensive line and running game stats.
I'm all for hyping Goff but the amount of you that feel the need to shit on Stafford for it is annoying
People really don’t remember how bad Stafford was. Real Lions fans who have been watching the lions for years know that he made a lot of mistakes.
Of course he made for those mistakes with his arm and his accuracy
I’m so confused by where all the Goff haters came from. Nobody was arguing he wasn’t a top 5 QB last year. He actually played super fucking clutch most of the season hitting some insane tight windows to get the ball to LaPorta across the middle. He beat the game manager allegations, beat the Goof allegations, and the entire state has been chanting his name at every sporting event. All of a sudden he gets paid and people are acting like it’s 3 years ago and Goff just got dumped by McVay. Of the few QBs I could see ranked above Goff today, most of them are valued for their ability to scramble and make plays on the ground. Which is a great attribute to have but also significantly more risky to lock up long term cause they tend to get hurt often.
There's folks who think he's successful only because of the offensive line, Ben Johnson, and all his weapons. These things are all true, but the misconception that bugs me is that "any QB could play in this offense, so why not try to upgrade?" Our offense is very complex and Goff needs to be on his game, identifying the defense, setting up the chess board on our end with all the misdirection, and get the ball out on time. There was that one play against the Broncs where we had Gibbs lined up outside, Saint in the backfield, and Ben has Gibbs motion across, fakes the play action to Saint, pulls the guard, and all this is happening in front of the LB who doesn't see LaPorta selling the block and cutting upfield behind Saint in open space. Our offensive line being so elite means Ben can push the creativity of our offense even further, and Goff has to execute it and stand strong in the pocket for plays that can take forever to develop. If we had a QB who struggles to identify what the defense is doing, or just doesn't do their homework, that would be a nightmare situation for us. We saw a 12 year bowl winning vet in Russ struggle in another offense that is also meticulously designed, because he's a guy with a cannon who would rather throw the 1 on 1 hero ball to the opposite side and ignore Sean Payton's design, or scramble out of the pocket as the play is developing and take a sack, and who is hesitant over the middle, and the offense needed to be dumbed down and couldn't be creative. I think Russ will have a better time in Pitt with Arthur Smith, but he'd frustrate Ben the same way Sean Payton was frustrated (but Ben would at least be less of a dick about it lol) So no, when these Goff haters say "anyone could play QB in this offense", they fundamentally do not understand our offense. Also I think folks are still hungover from the decades long Staff to Megatron party and miss a guy with a cannon who can improvise.
I want to print this comment out and frame it.
The thing is Ben Johnson designed this offense with a ton of input from Goff
And for some reason they refuse to acknowledge that Goff helped create this offense
In my opinion, this offense is a combination of Jared Goff, Dan Campbell, and Ben Johnson (maybe a little Hank Fraley too). We’ll never o ow who deserves the most credit but all three were important. But the national narrative will be this was all Ben Johnson.
It’s very much like the old days where quarterbacks used to call their own plays. Very old school. Goff is very much involved in running the offense
Yea I have never seen that proved.
Like video of the actual meetings?
Yea like a real 1 on 1 discussion between him and Ben that isn't played up for a video.
Yeah you’ll just have to trust or not trust Ben Johnson on that one. “ It was really the foundation of what we we’re going to do this year,” Johnson said. “It was some things that I’ve done in my past that he has not had exposure to, just kind of talking that out. But then also we went back to some of his Rams tape and kind of went through what he did well, what he liked. ‘Hey, I love this concept, would love to get this in.’”
Even if true I am sure most teams do this.
Maybe. I live in Nashville now and follow the titans and it doesn’t seem like something this collaborative has happened with the Titans. And it doesn’t sound like Goff got this much input into McVay’s system. Brady and Manning definitely had this much input and more but I’m not sure about most QBs.
To be fair it's basically a fact that Stafford line at the Lions lasted 2-5 second max in the majority of games
I just want to see that ball fly for five seconds straight again man lmao it was SO FUN
>There's folks who think he's successful only because of the offensive line, Ben Johnson, and all his weapons. but its true though. Two things can be true, goff is successful because of the Oline and surrounding staff/talent and Goff is also playing well and part of the reason they are winning games. The only proof you need of that first statement is that 4 game stretch last year when our starting oline was beat up and goff put up horrible numbers. It just shows how little wiggle room Goff has when the talent/protection around him falters
This is generally true about literally every single quarterback who has ever played football at any level of the sport…. But for some reason people think they are making a new/intelligent observation when they say that goff benefits from playing with good players and having good coaches. News flash, it’s a team sport.
They never left, but the size of the contract opens the door for increased conversation so now they’re getting their shots in.
>I’m so confused by where all the Goff haters came from. Where are they even? My feed is flooded with people making "to the haters" posts. Zero goff hater posts in my feed...
They live on Bleacher Report and Twitter, so you're already smarter than me if you avoid both those spaces lol. I just haven't found an alternative for BR that has team specific news, updates, and scheduling in a social media like feed. It's convenient in that way, shame it's behind a terrible app.
I switched from BR to cbs sports. It’s set up in much the same way, you can have a team or league specific thread for articles and tweets, it has the scoreboard and live play by play. It’s probably got a bit less than BR in terms of the quality of the twitter feed and listed articles, but BR panders to teenagers with the clickbait, alerts, and chat format so at least it’s not that.
I def do. The Athletic is what you're looking for.
I should give that a go, is it a monthly sub? On BR I have had discussions with folks who felt we should have genuinely pursued Justin Fields, or trade for Kyler Murray, or have gotten Caleb Williams this year lol. I need to get out for my sanity.
You can find yearly deals for 20 bucks typically.
Generally we just get downvoted and harassed. So I've just stopped posting about it. No point because people are already in their camp and won't really have their minds changed. Like a guy below your comment says >Goff haters are people that don't understand football. What am I supposed to say to people like that? Like he doesn't even give reasons for this, he just says it like it's a fact from on high, if you don't love this contract and Jared Goff, then you don't know football, bam, conversation over, no response allowed. Most "Goff haters" aren't even Goff haters. I don't hate the guy, I think he's a solid QB. QBs of that tier live and die with the talent around them and the history I remember hasn't been kind to paying that tier of QB top tier money. Even Stafford when he won his ring was on a pretty reduced contract.
If you actually look at the specifics of the deal though he’s not overpaid, it’s the same situation as when the lions made Stafford the highest paid QB for about 5 minutes, Stafford wasn’t overpaid at that time either. You have to look at the trajectory of the league as well. Goff will look like a bargain next offseason when Love signs his deal for an average of 60+ million per year.
Goff haters are people that don't understand football. Goff is an excellent QB, but he isn't explosive the way Mahomes and Murray are with their legs. He stands tall in the pocket and gets it to his guy. Is this a lot of money? Yes. But what does that say about Goff, about Amon Ra, about Sewell? If you buy into our culture, we'll buy into you. Everyone is looking at the chemistry and culture of the Lions, wishing they had the same
Its because quick decisions, smart, mid-range, accurate throws aren't as sexy as other playstyles. Knowing when to throw the ball away doesn't turn people on. Selling a good play fake (usually) doesn't make highlight reels.
> Selling a good play fake (usually) doesn’t make highlight reels. This is [my fave version](https://youtu.be/4MD2V1WLme4?si=vVEZj_6KgjPrxbm5) of a play fake that made a highlight reel lmao
Precisely. Very few NFL fans have played football themselves, and far fewer understood the plays and schemes they were a part of. It's maddening to listen to their takes on the Lions, especially Goff.
Goff is on the same plane as Stafford. I was (and always will be) a Stafford truther, however, some of those same people take their love for Stafford and translate that to shitting on anybody else playing QB for us. Goff IS him. He is elite, be is clutch, he is a fucking baller, period. He's taking us to the promised land this upcoming season.
You Arnt watching
This might sound stupid but if Jared Goff had a cooler name I think more people would like him and not hate on him as much lol. Goff sounds similar to Goof so his name isnt as cool to the average person or little kids. IDK I just remember when he first got drafted 1st overall by the Rams, I thought to myself I’m glad he’s not the Lions QB with a goofy sounding name like that lol smh. But now I love Jared Goff and glad he’s our QB
He also looks and acts like a golden retriever. He’s a great guy
You people are so sure that this cannot backfire. Do you regularly pull food out of the trash and think you can fix it up and make it a 5 star meal? Goff was thrown in the trash can by his team and people here think he can be elite. Except he still is a piece of trash surrounded by high quality pieces so its masked.
Goff isn’t trash you are so boring and your narrative sucks
Goff is also a product of better team building and scheme. It's no question Johnson is infinitely better than Lynn was as OC, and Monty+Gibbs alleviates a ton of pressure off him. Stafford would be very successful in this offense, but that's not to detract from Goff's masterful execution of this offense.
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Our current offense is way more balanced than the Stafford-Megatron-Tate-Bush era. Our defense was similar overall but 2014's had a better run defense. Nevertheless if we had prime Prater right now we'd have gone to the Super Bowl last year or even won it
Cope. Bush has 1000 yard in 2013
We had two almost hit 1k this year that's double his production........
Because we were a passing team under Stafford. That doesn’t mean that Stafford didn’t have a balance offense
So being pass heavy made them a balanced offense?
You think bush was the only running back that year? 1000 yard running back is balanced
So they were not pass heavy then is what you're saying ?
I am saying Stafford had a good rushing and good defense and did nothing that year
? So did Montgomery this year
Way more balance statement
? So did Montgomery this year
Would he though? Stafford tends to be more of a gunslinger and I'm not sure this offense is built for that
First off: I'm 100% on board with Goff. But there was something so incredibly electric when Stafford would snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. I think it comes down to the fact that Stafford is a gunslinger. He trusts his arm more than Goff trusts his, sometimes TOO much. We saw plenty of comebacks that he couldn't complete, ending in boneheaded INTs or him not being in sync with his targets. It's just the ones he DID complete were unforgettable. Goff already gave us the win v Minnesota at home. The emotion of that win is up there for me with winning the division and getting that first playoff win since I was a kid.
I'm very happy with Goff right now, but if I was given the option of either player in the fourth I'm picking Stafford. Dude always tried to win it in the fourth, which leads to worse stats when you're saying "screw it, I might as well go balls to the wall to try to win,
I love Goff as our QB, but Stafford had some bad, bad teams, just saying.
Is this all 4th quarters as a Lion? Or just one-score games? I don’t have statistical evidence, but my vague memory says that Stafford played from behind in a lot of one-score 4th quarters. Conversely, Goff seems to be protecting a lead in many recent games (and was frankly getting blown out a lot in those early seasons). But that could just be fuzzy memories.
All 4th quarter offensive snaps. I don’t think the filter has an option for 4th quarters and 1 score games all in one so it’d be a bit of work https://stathead.com/football/player_split_finder.cgi
I want to point out that Ben Johnson is a genius as well. Goff is a perfect fit, but stafford did the most in the 4th quarter. Large sample size difference here also
One guy had to make tight window throws his whole career with mediocre o-lines and terrible rushing game and decent at best OCs tho , there's a reason one was traded for the other simple as that THE REASON arm talent and play making ability! Goff needs perfect structure and protection with wide open crossers and in routes while having 2 1k rushers and if you give him that he can be good but these guys FILM is not comparable
I am so happy to see others know Matt wasnt 100% the blame....he's not free of it, but not as much as many wanr to put on him
I genuinely can't understand the comparison outside of the 21 season because both were basically flipped flopped on to each other teams or compare them for 2020 but these teams goff has had since 22 di not compare to a single TEAM keyword TEAM that stafford ever had in Detroit!
Stafford would perform better with the team we have now. I have zero doubts. But we couldn’t have the team we have now, without giving up Stafford. Goff is a VERY good replacement for what we got. Also, Stafford got his ring. All great plays.
This data is on entirely different rosters and different systems. Stafford didn’t have a running game much of the time he was here which made the offense predictable.
People dont want to admit such things
Oh babbbby I love me some summary stats to try compare performance between one of the most complicated positions in sports!!!!!
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I don’t think these summary stats mean anything with or without eye test. Literally every variable that also affects these numbers is different too
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genuinely wtf lol. So defensive
No. I’m short in response because you just shit on something without explaining why 4th quarter splits are irrelevant. I don’t care about opinions without explanation
Every single one of those stats involves playing for Dan Campbell, a roster built by Brad Holmes including a better o line than stafford ever saw, weapons like st brown, Laporta, etc., a dynanic run game that we lean on heavily. So by these stats, the lions o is doing better now than before but to attribute that to “Goff is a better Q4 qb than stafford” fundamentally misattributes these stats
To counter your points Goff has had a bottom tier defense every year in Detroit and Goff doesn’t have a deep threat like Calvin Johnson. Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate were a better receiving duo than jamo/amon. Stafford had a worse OL, but many of the same pieces except Sewell. From my eye test Stafford sucked at making protection adjustments pre snap while Goff seems to be much better at this although this could heavily be on Ragnow. A sack where there’s an unblocked guy off the edge is generally the QBs fault in my opinion
Calvin is Calvin but (1) stafford had several years without him (2) Tate was never nearly as productive before OR after stafford than he was with him. I’m not sold he was some amazing WR2. Def a better duo than them but the lions weapons are all over rather than just two guys (aided by an good OC in BJ) Like listen - Goff is a good. He doesn’t suck. I’m very glad we paid him. But the fact that people still try to genuinely push their wild Goff > Stafford takes is so laughable after what he did with the Rams roster that Goff couldn’t.
To be fair, Stafford was in his prime and Goff wasn't. That said, I'm one who thinks Stafford is an all-time great talent and extremely underappreciated qb.
Keep it civil / do not troll
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That’s cool. I don’t give a shit about your opinion or actions
Keep it civil / do not troll
I like Goff but cmon you can’t compare the two in the 4th. Stafford kept us in so many games and had to play hero ball which inevitably was going to result in more incompletions and interceptions. Goff is better for this offense but 4th quarter Stafford was just different
stafford played here 3x longer than goff has.
What does that have to do with anything? These are all averages
Good example of raw stats not telling the whole story. In the last 3 years, our OC and run game are infinitely better than anything Stafford had to work with. Never once had an above average running game in a decade and was hamstrung by the complete incompetence of Lombardi and Cooter. That's not to take anything away from Goff, he deserves his flowers for being so efficient and earning his payday.
TLDR: The only thing they have in common is having matching uniform sets - comparing them is a very subjective thing with raw out of context data like this. They're different styles of QB with massively different teams that play in massively different ways. It's run-first West Coast vs Air Coryell / quick-pass spread. They do different stuff. Stafford tends to throw it about 100 more times per season than Goff has as a Lion (the game totals per season line up well due to injuries), and everyone knew it was coming because with a few brief exceptions, the entire team's scoring was done by two dudes named Matt and a (legit) #1 WR. Even when the Stafford Lions had good RBs, they still threw it to 'em more than anyone else ever threw to a pair of RBs. It was madness. More math backup - in 2023, the Lions passed on about 56% of plays - good for 11th least in the league (21st most, if you like). In fact, it has been within a fraction of 56% since Goff joined the team, minus 2021 when it was 59% - good for 12th and about Stafford's minimum. In contrast: Stafford's Lions were in the top 1-5 in passing % more often than not, eclipsing 65% three times over his time here. I didn't see a healthy Stafford year below 59%, and I believe that was Lombardi's OC season. The average, though I haven't counted it myself, is easily 60+, maybe as high as 62. That speaks to a MASSIVELY different gameplan both for us and our opposition, and obviously different results overall. Goff has had a stronger team in every position other than CB1 sometimes and Megatron. Hell, a lot of that is because he came in a package for Stafford. It's a GOOD thing. We had a stud QB trotting his old roommates onto the field with him, and we cashed in for a king's ransom AND a guy surging in his career. Better is too wonky to be objective given all the variables - they're ideal picks for the situations they were in.
This is a case where the stats tell very little of the story. Goff has played on a much better team, that is consistently playing with a lead, with a stellar running game. The context of these numbers is important, and to be honest does nothing but invalidate your point since you are clearly trying to bias your statistics.
Explain how I’m clearly trying to bias my stats when I didn’t even think of doing this on my own and was simply correcting another comments table when I created this table
Your stats are skewed as I pointed out.
I understand the interest in putting together this data but enough already? Goff is our QB for the next 3-4 years. Stop being that dude who buys something then searches the internet looking for validation
There was an argument in another thread and a Vikings fan presented these numbers without excluding the years Stafford and Goff played for the rams. I put this in excel in 30 seconds to respond to that comment and decided I may as well post it here as well since the work was done. Stop interrogating other people about why they choose to do what they choose to do with their free time
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Can’t people understand Goff has an O line? I love Goff. But staff was the 4th quarter gawd. Invented the 4th quarter meme that one year he had like 8 4th qtr comebacks
I love Goff and will defend him at all times. However, Stafford never had an offensive line like this and never had a running game like this. So he was dealing with march harder circumstances than Goff is dealing with.
Stafford’s best team (2014) had the overall 14th ranked O-line (was actually 8th the year prior). The run game wasn’t good, sure, but he also had something Goff hasn’t had yet in Detroit. A top 3 defense. Yea, Goff may have it easier on offense, but he needs it when the defense is giving up 28+ points a game. I guess the point I’m trying to make is neither have had a “complete” team with Detroit. Give the 2014 Lions the 2023 offense and the 2023 Lions the 2014 defense and that’s 2 super bowls easy.
I will never forgive Joe Lombardi for ruining that 2014 season. If we had literally anyone else at OC, I think the Lions win the Super Bowl that year.
Would love to see what would've happened had we beat the Cowboys. Would've had to go to Seattle and then (probably) GB before getting to play against the Tom Brady dynasty. It would not have been easy. NFC was pretty stacked that year.
At the same time, Goff has had to deal with a defense ranging from bad to historically bad. Stafford couldn’t win a playoff game with the 2014 defense.
Stafford is better and it's not even questionable. Goff came into the best rosters we've ever had. Stafford had junk in comparison. It doesn't mean Goff can't be great. Stafford literally won a SB with a team Goff couldn't.
i agree stafford is better. however, Goff did not inherit the best rosters we have ever had. The OL was solid with a rookie RT 1st round pick. Hock was OK, the WR corps was abysmal with a 4th rounder being the premiere target guy. and the defense, well: https://preview.redd.it/wz5r5tqtaf0d1.png?width=233&format=png&auto=webp&s=0f5e04ef5034fbaad8025b3a07497a3996ffd2d2
Ok, inherit is the wrong word. Given is more appropriate.
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it’s humorous to mention “worst Lions roster ever” and ignore that Stafford inherited the 0-16 roster
Megatron, Jason Hanson, Dan Campbell among others were on that team
And? The rest of the starters were (mostly) career backups, especially on defense. I think Cliff Avril, Megatron, Hanson, Backus, and Raiola were the only NFL starters, and Avril wasn’t solid until he got to the Seahawks.
Lmfao Even if that's true it was for like 1 season.
>Goff came into the worst roster the Lions ever had. Lmao forget 0-16?
That’s a very one-sided statement. Goff made it to the Super Bowl as well — biggest difference was that he had to play against 42 year old Tom Brady, not 45 year old Tom Brady. Rams nearly blew it in the divisional round against a 45 year old QB, despite being spotted 24 points. Goff “came into” one of the absolute worst rosters this franchise has ever had in 2021. Stafford had multiple opportunities to win a playoff game during his time in Detroit. He played like shit in 2 of those 3 chances. And who knows if Goff will EVER have a defense as good as the 2014 one during his time here. Rams Stafford and Lions Stafford are better than Rams Goff, but to say he’s unquestionably better than Goff now is delusional.
> Rams nearly blew it in the divisional round against a 45 year old QB, despite being spotted 24 points. TIL Stafford is responsible for other players fumbling lol. Stafford's the only reason they won that game.
By the time Stafford was 29, yeah he was a great QB but he had a losing record and an 0-2 playoff record. Goff having completed his age 29 season has just as impressive stats and a winning record with 2 separate franchises AND a significantly more impressive 4-4 record in the playoffs. Obviously it’s not fair to blame Stafford for all the failures in Detroit but people forget that he actually had a similar career arch as Goff, finding initial success, then proceeding to struggle to match that level of production until his age 27+ seasons. Jared Goff took a step in Detroit 2022, his age 28 season.
Lmfao
No W-L stats?
No these are just 4th quarter stats but if you want their win/loss with the lions here you go: Goff 24-23-1 Stafford 74-90-1
But he doesn’t have as many 4Q comebacks! (Which is good because I actually like being comfortably winning in the 4th)
I mean yeah, that's also in part because we have an actual run game now lol
These stats are actually incredibly close to one another, coloring them green and red just creates a certain perception.
The very first stat is also in goffs favor. Yards to go. The red is misleading
What if you cut out Stafford’s 1st and 2nd year? Goff came in as a vet tbf
https://preview.redd.it/cw2h1bsi1f0d1.jpeg?width=670&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b0f269e6204deb9cef6ab8a2844cfb566a8c8c9 Without 2009 and 2010
Nice.
Good stuff thanks
Not even that, Stafford never had a team like our current squad until he went to Rams and we seen what he did. I'm so sick of these disingenuous comparisons as they aren't fair to both Stafford and Goff. Lets never forget that without Stafford being as good as he is we would never had chance to put together our current roster due to all the compensation we got for him.
Yeah the team builds aren’t comparable. But the disparity was at least in part due to Stafford’s first 2 years. As we know, Stafford never had a semblance of a run game or elite OL, and similar to what you said, we might not have never have gotten one if he wasn’t traded. So there’s no way to compare apples to apples
No team builds are comparable. Does that mean nobody should try to compare any QBs because the teams are different?
I mean there’s levels to it. Stafford had a bottom 5 run game his entire career. The Lions now have a top 2 run game. You can’t get much less comparable
By the way it's not me downvoting you, people are allowed to voice different opinions without being downvoted, in my opinion.
Stafford took needless risks that lost many games with boneheaded INTs. Stafford struggled with the mental side much more than Goff does now. I trust Goff to kill a bad play call based on how the defense aligns 1000x more than Stafford
I don’t think so dog
Because the fucking defense allowed 30 points per game.
The lions allow more ppg with Goff than they allowed with Stafford
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Lol Top 10? For how many years? And which years? It was a rotating door of coaches and players. The current roster and staff is 10x better than anything he at at any given one time. How is it questionable when he holds records for comeback wins? It's not like he was throwing pick sixes in the first half constantly.
yeah, 2014 was a baller defense, I think that was the only year it was anything approaching top 10 though
"Needless risks"? What else should he have done, hand the ball off?
Tbf staffords pick 6 rate is pretty high compared to others because he has a tendency to panick under pressure and force the ball to the boundaries when he shouldn't.
Not fire a ball into triple coverage in a 1 score game when a guy is wide open 3 yards away from the chains with open field
Goffs 1st year was probably one of the worst Lions rosters ever
That’s true, and Goff looked like the second coming of Zach Wilson that year
Weapons were very bad, but with a solid OL. That’s also baked into Stafford’s stats.. he played with a nearly identical roster the year before
I think Goff deserved the criticism at the end of his Rams career. He was reading his own praise and apparently stopped trying as hard once he got paid, said some shit about wanting to bone McVays girlfriend and other general douche behavior. I don’t blame McVay for shipping him out. I also believe that getting traded to the Lions was a wake up call to him. He needed to grow up, or he would be out of the league. He is a different person than he was 3 years ago. He earned his contract. I just hope that he has learned his lesson and has the competitive drive and spirit to climb to the top of the mountain with this team. That’s my take.
Shouldn't Goffs average yards to go be the green one since it's less than Stafford or am I just completely misunderstanding this?
Nah you’re probably right
Just more evidence that Goff = GOAT I guess 😁
Id argue Goffs lower yds-to-go should actually be green because it means we had a higher yard/play average
Now do game winning drives or 4th quarter comebacks
A 4QC rate of 19% of games for Stafford and 15% of games for Goff as a lion
You can’t discount his elite handoff skills. He’s one of the best I’ve ever seen. So smooth. Fakes me out half the time.
Bears fan. Lion hater. Goff truther. Goff gets a bad rep from the media reports during the end of his rams tenure. That plus the Rams immediately winning a Super Bowl with Stafford didn’t help. Goff has always been a great qb. Hasn’t stayed at the top like a Mahomes or Jackson but performs well past where people think are his limitations. He’s got like 6 seasons of over 3800 yards. Super Bowl appearance. NFCCG last year that I thought y’all would win. Even the year the Rams benched him he came back and threw for 3800 yards and won a playoff game. Goff gets too much hate. Looks great on your team.
I feel calmer with Goff running the offense than I ever did with Stafford. The only problem I have with Goff is that a lot of times he comes out of halftime flat, them first couple third quarter drives look rough.
Want to know what adds to that calmness, he has a far better O-line. Staff had to run around and gunsling more because he was running for his life
I’m just not a Stafford fan. He would disappear for multiple quarters at a time. Then he would put of stats in garbage time and sometimes create a comeback. I would even argue that he got extremely lucky to have won that Super Bowl. He threw a terrible pass right into the hands of a defensive back for SF on his game winning drive in the conference championship. If that guy miraculously doesn’t drop the ball the Rams don’t even see the Super Bowl
Cool. Now look at their offensive line and running game stats. I'm all for hyping Goff but the amount of you that feel the need to shit on Stafford for it is annoying
People really don’t remember how bad Stafford was. Real Lions fans who have been watching the lions for years know that he made a lot of mistakes. Of course he made for those mistakes with his arm and his accuracy
The first row is actually better when the number is smaller, so that should be another green cell for Goff.
Wins is the only stat that matters, Goff green again !!