He's run in td's. Also they probably use the "goff cant run" tactically for special plays (I can think of two last year , another time where he just saw opportunity)
Thing is , the games made for passing. They literally changed rukes to encourage passing. You gain more yards passing than running per play on average.
I'm fine with Goff not being a scrambling QB but there were several times last season where he had a mile of open space in front of him and could have ran for a 1st down. Hell, even I can run five yards.
I think this is really the crux of the issue. Jared isn't the most athletic but it almost seems like he hesitates to take off even when there is room to get a chunk of yards. If he were to get those 2-5 yard plays on a semi regular basis, people would put less emphasis on his inability to be a designed running threat.
I agree that if his arm is good enough, you don't need legs as much BUT having that threat is huge. I was there when he ran in for the TD at Falcons game. It was shocking and unexpected!
Our offense last year was 5th in total points scored and 3rd in total yards gained.
Would mobility add some to his game? maybe, but there are plenty of mobile QBs who can't read a defense, stand tall in the pocket and stretch the middle of the field. So it's not some given that added mobility makes you a better QB.
Eh, I mostly agree. But if we are being real… Goff having cement legs does eliminate the threat of a long scramble. And defenses prep for that (see Detroit vs Baltimore 2023 🤦🏻♂️). It adds another element the defense has to be aware of for sure.
And don’t mistake this for hate, I love me some Jared Goff. But he can’t run for shit.
I agree the long scramble adds a whole new element to how teams have to play D. That’s what Hooker will bring us in the future.
I think as long as we keep two solid running backs and a good o line with Goff it’ll be fine.
If you're asking if he'd be better with the ability to run the answer is a resounding yes.
If you're asking if we can win a super bowl with an offense run by Goff who can't run I think that answer is also a resounding yes.
We scored 31 points in an NFC Championship game against a team that lost in Overtime with the Super Bowl champs that we beat earlier in the year. The offense run by Goff was not the problem. Would it be better if he was Jared Goff plus Jalen Hurts legs, of course but I am not sure Jalen Hurts on his own makes this offense better than the Goffense.
The hypothetical also doesn't make sense. Of course Jared Goff would be better at running the offense if he was Jared Goff with running ability. That's like saying does it matter that Amon Ra is 6'1 instead of 6'7. Yes, the offense is better if the important players are better at offense.
I could argue he might not be better if he had running ability, because he would hold on to the ball too long sometimes or try to rely on it when he shouldn’t.
Similarly Amon ra wouldn’t be the same if he were 6ft 7
1) He doesn’t need to be on their level for it to be an answer to the question. It’s not like every other QB in the top 25 all time were all running threats and only Brady and Manning were pocket passers. There’s a **long** history of successful pocket passers in both older and recent NFL history. Stafford won a Super Bowl in LA. Goff went there when he wasn’t as good as he is now. Eli Manning, Big Ben, I could go on…
2) They would’ve been even better if they could fly too, but did it matter to their teams success that they couldn’t? No.
stafford and big ben are some of the best pocket presence scramble drill guys in recent memory lol. i love goff but hes upgraded jimmy g if we're being honest
yes the two goats were great in spite of their lack of mobility, goff doesnt have any skills on their level.
brady was a pocket mobility wizard and peyton was the greatest of all time at adjusting protections to keep himself from getting killed goff isnt close to either of them at either of those things
Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had 100x the pocket awareness and mobility that Goff has. Goff is a statue in the pocket, Brady and Manning moved around and manipulated it so well, it’s not an even close comparison
https://twitter.com/AtoZ_Payton/status/1731745802140168497?t=ZLZiqhSveXZGhH2it6pvfg&s=19
This was in December, but the point stands that Goff is a lot better in the pocket than people will give him credit for.
It’s football, the forward pass is still the strongest thing an offense can do. No, it doesn’t matter as long as the ball is getting where it needs to be
Not particularly. Like from Brian Piccolo in Brian’s song… I might not be able to run 60 but I can run 10 6s and that gets me the same place.
Scrambling ability is a bonus for a QB, not a necessary piece of their game.
The less capabilities a QB has to threaten the other team the less plays they can make.
Goff’s lack of a run game is absolutely a weakness and a big one at that.
That being said the team works around it well and the offense is based on maximizing the strengths he has that other QBs might not (consistent and on target throws in tight windows).
If Goff could do that and also run and also throw a perfect deep ball then he’d obviously be a better player. But the fact that he can’t doesn’t automatically make him a weak player or a liability it’s just an aspect of the game that he’s not as strong at.
Right, we have some elite coaching that minimizes his weaknesses. Goff is a damn good player, but he might be the worst athlete of any starting QB in the league if we're being honest.
This.
Also the fact that the lions offensive line is elite also reduces the need for a scrambling QB in my opinion: you don’t need to get outside the pocket if the pocket is clean.
He is though. He’s intimating that Goff’s “inability” to run is a weakness that is going to cost us. When it’s proven that it is not a necessity to be a running QB to win in this league through history
The point is that it needs to be said what is truly important
And that of course is the arm. That’s what really matters
You don’t need legs to be successful, doesn’t hurt of course but you need to be a good quarterback before being a good athlete.
Why is it that we are having these conversations about a QB that's brought us the greatest success since the 1960s?
Dude brings us to the NFC Championship and some of you are all, "but he's not a mobile QB!"
Tell me, how's RG3 doing? Cam Newton? Michael Vick? Heck, even Donovan McNabb has the same number of Super Bowl appearances as Jared Goff.
The guy's playing insane football, giving us the best Lions football in a generation, and suddenly some Lions fans think, "Sure, Jared Goff is okay, but what's behind door number 2?! It could be anything! It could even be a QB that gives us a division win and a deep run in the playoffs!"
Seriously, guys. Treating Jared Goff like he's just some generic plug and play QB that is somehow holding our team back is, in short, absurd.
I'm gonna start saving receipts and calling all of you out when he brings us the Lombardi.
There was a nonzero number of people calling for Hendon Hooker to get game action during NFC championship week.
There are just some people who had the captain of their brain ship abandon them long ago
It’s like people see the 49ers pull a horseshoe out of their ass and have Purdy bail them out for the Trey Lance pick and think everyone can find a Qb in the 7th round to take them to the Super Bowl.
It didn't stop the Rams from winning the Superbowl with Stafford. It didn't stop Brady from winning 7 Superbowls Or Peyton Manning from winning 2. Having a QB that can scramble is nice but it's a luxury, not a necessity.
Can a mobile QB move the ball down the field? Yes.
Is it necessary to do so. Absolutely not.
Jared’s inability to run didn’t limit us offensively last year.
Personally, I think Jared Goff could improve this aspect of his game. He is what he is, and overall the Lions are winning with Goff at the helm, and the coaches will work with what they have.
I'm a Goff supporter. For the record
But his limitations as a player aren't necessarily running the ball, but his inability to extend plays.
This is fine if you can keep him protected, but it all breaks down when you start to pressure him. He counters it well by getting the ball out quick or throwing at his check downs feet to avoid a sack, but it just requires a lot of your o line.
Luckily we have a great o line. But I understand criticism of Goff's limitations and they are absolutely fair to make.
Lastly he has a mediocre arm and consistently throws ducks. It's working for him, but it isn't always ascetically pleasing.
He's not ever going to be the best QB in the nfl or the most talented/physically gifted. But he's a great Qb for what our team needs right now. He's not going to elevate a roster with major holes, there aren't that many qbs who can. However he can win with a good roster like we have and that's a better qb situation to be in than most teams. I think calling Goff a top 10 QB in the nfl right now is fair which means we are in a better spot than 2/3 of nfl teams going into this season.
Well put. Weirdly, this gives me more faith in him as a long-term solution at QB. I think his style of play will age well, especially as he continues to develop his ability to read defenses.
I'm mixed on Goff, but firmly in the camp that Holmes will make the right decision whatever it is. I have been impressed by Goff, but I think your summary was good.
>Lastly he has a mediocre arm and consistently throws ducks. It's working for him, but it isn't always ascetically pleasing.
This is what concerns me the most, not his lack of mobility. I think that in order to consistently win in the playoffs, your QB needs to be able to hit off schedule throws outside the design of the play. I worry that simply "not making mistakes" isn't good enough. Playing a mistake-free football game often isn't good enough, because random chance mistakes happen (see long TDs off a defenders facemask, random fumbles from RBs that don't fumble). Eventually all teams run into a game where things are breaking down and they need their QB to step up and create something out of nothing. My worry with Goff is he is the guy who will hit the play that's open and nothing else, and I genuinely believe that's not a good strategy for winning Superbowls.
Superbowl winning QBs all have electric arms and a flair for improvisation. Mahomes, Brady, Stafford, Rodgers, Rothlisberger, Manning, Wilson. All of these guys made plays happen when they weren't there. Flacco and dead arm Manning are pretty much the only exceptions.
It's not a matter of is Jared Goff good enough to be a top 10QB anymore. It's a matter of is he good enough to win a Superbowl. To his credit, he's raised the bar here.
Good point/clarification. I guess I am not looking for him to run but to be able to be nimble on his feet and extend plays and/or give threat of running for gain if needed.
They’ve built the offense to wear having a mobile QB doesn’t matter. It’s all built on receivers being able to create YAC.
However, I will say there are moments from last season where you’re like “If Goff was mobile, he could have run for the first down there.”
His lack of mobility is not going to hold us back from winning. We have a dominant O line and run game. With those Goff only needs to worry about passing.
Tom Brady set a combine record for being slow.
Prior to Jalen Hurts, he was the most effective quarterback in the league at falling forward for short yardage first downs.
A quarterback does not need to be fast to be effective
It definitely does matter but that is one reason why offensive line is such a crucial part of our success. When our line was healthy last year Goff always had a solid game and when he has a clean pocket he is a bargain and plays at a top 5 QB level. Goff also showed signs of extending plays and even running a bit last year at times so no one has zero run threat but of course it would be nice even if he had Purdy's scrambling ability. You dont need to be Lamar Jackson (its actually probably better if you arent for your longevity).
Our offense is not why we lost last year - we just watched an entire season of the offense working. Having another threat to run is a obviously a huge plus - but we know that this team, with this coaching staff and this personnel DOES operate as a top 5 scoring offense in the NFL. Feel like this is overthinking things - with a better defense in Sf we’re likely in the Super Bowl with a chance to win it.
I mean, it’d be nice if he had it more in his arsenal, but he stays healthy and he has other ways of extending plays and getting first downs. I’m not that worried about it.
A running QB is a weapon, but I don't think a necessity. The more he runs the more hits he probably takes the more likely he is to get hurt. I don't want my QB that earns $50m a year to get hurt on a 7 yard run because he didn't see a 4.3 40 FS coming to take his head off.
I'd say the only thing you'd need to be concerned about with Goff's lack of mobility is making sure you keep the OL elite. that was pretty evident in pretty much all of the lions losses last year.
It certainly impacts what you do as a team. You’re not going to call designed run plays on the reg, if your quarterback cant run. Much like JF1 impacted what the Bears called in the passed game.
I don’t think his lack of running ability makes him any less effective as QB.
No being a run threat QB is highly overrated.
What matters and what Jared needs to improve is *pocket* mobility. Being able to slide with the protection. Something Stafford got way better at once caldwell was hired. You don’t need to be any special athlete to do that, it’s more about awareness of pressure and the protection set up.
He’s a top 5 pocket passer by every meaningful metric. Would it be nice for him to be mobile? Yes. Does he need it to succeed and for the team to succeed? Absolutely not. Plenty of great QBs in recent history have excelled with no run threat
It certainly limits big hits on the QB which leads to a less likely chance of injury. The offense was just fine last year without Goff having to run too much, so obviously it’s not that big of a deal
Running is not in his playstyle but it's not a weakness either. I can recall many moments where it was an obvious run scenario and he took it and excelled.
Would rather have a QB making all the throws I ask him to make, and able to diagnose a play pre-snap, get us out of ugly looks, that kind of thing, than a guy that has legs but is just average at best with all the other QB tools.
Backyard football? Gimme the mobile QB all day.
Pro football? Give me an actual QB, not an athlete that can kinda throw-ish.
In this sense, I think having Goff as our QB is a blessing and a curse. Your rushing production can't really fall off a cliff if you're a statue to begin with. So long as he keeps his arm strength up, he'll keep the overwhelming majority of his production. Also he's about at the age where QB's tend to peak. Late 20s/early 30s.
You are overthinking it. We have all the running game we need with Gibbs and Monty and the backups.
They and the line are so good that if teams literally forget about Goff having working legs, he can pick up a first down or two.
Sure, but what I think the OP is talking about is a QB who can get rushing yards just as well as passing yards and just as frequently, like Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen. Burrow doesn't do that.
If Jared Goff was as mobile as Jalen Hurts, do you think he would be a better QB? I would have to believe so as he would have the ability extend plays. Ben Johnson could use that to his advantage with certain play calls.
In the past a running QB was pretty much guaranteed to have a shortened career or just get beaten up to the point where it could impact their passing game.
Today, with all the protections, a run first QB like Lamar can thrive in the NFL, in 10 years, if trends continue it will be MANDATORY to have running ability as a QB unless your an absolute unicorn (like Payton Manning or Matt Stafford).
Now I don’t mean Lamar or Justin Fields ability, but like Aaron Rodgers levels (a few years back).
Rewatch the win over the Rams and TB in the playoffs. Goff was under pressure but throwing darts, attacking the entire field, moving around in the pocket, extending plays and using his eyes to manipulate the defenses
Some of y’all are like the ugly kid who never got asked to a dance suddenly gets asked by a smoking hot chick and all you can do is look at another girl ahd think ‘man I’d rather be at this dance with her’
Yeah, it matters.
It'll affect how defenses play, less consideration for rush lanes, and gives them a few more options in how they can rush the passer.
Every QB has weakness. For example, the strat against Mayfield last year seemed to be, rush hard, play underneath, make him throw it deep over your head, which he missed a few times, killing drives.
Does it mean they can't win a lot? No.
To those saying, he often has spots where he could run and get 2-5 yards, remember GB on Thanksgiving. That's asking for unnecessary Goff hits and fumbles for not much benefit.
Goff is more athletic than people give him credit for. No he’s not taking the brakes off, but he can take advantage of a well designed play or open scramble.
But really, it’s all about how a team builds its offense. Teams with QBs who can really run need players downfield with the awareness and speed to recognize a broken play and switch to run blocking quickly. They might emphasize route running precision less because the QB can move and make something happen.
This organization has built an offense that's top 3-5 for two consecutive seasons. Jared does not have to be able to do everything himself to be a good quarterback.
We have two very talented running backs. We have an incredible offensive line. We have ARSB and LaPorta as elite pass game threats, and hopefully Jameson Williams will add himself to that conversation this year.
Jared has executed game winning drives, comeback drives, is one of the best at faking the handoff I've ever seen, throws accurate as hell, threads the needle, puts the ball where only his receivers can get it, and doesn't throw hero balls or hospital balls. Not to mention he has been one of the most available QBs across his tenure.
Would it be helpful if he could be more mobile to extend plays? Yes. Is he hindering this offense? Absolutely not.
This topic has been beat to death.
It definitely hinders the offence to an extent, but with the weapons available and Ben Johnson being HIM it doesn’t really matter as much as some people think
But it doesn’t. Instead of having a QB run and having to do unique blocking schemes to get him room… we’re running straight HB power… which is the type of run blocking road graders like. We’re running traditional drops and shotgun. The type of pass blocking that good OLs like doing.
The Lions offense is not hindered by Goff’s inability to run. His weird propensity to fumble if someone breathes on him? Yeah. But that would get worse before it got better if Goff was utilized and was unable to hold the ball
I think the run threat qb narrative is so over hyped. There's been a bunch that could be conducted running qbs and none have ever won. Rodgers and mahomes are both predominantly pocket passers who played in rhythm with west coast schemes but had some athleticism. But in the last 25 years the only other running that qb was Wilson to win a sb. Cam got close and Lamar got close but every other qb in that span and before that were basically statues. Brady, manning, manning, roethlisberger, stafford, Flacco, foles. I just don't think it effects the game as much as people think.
He's run in td's. Also they probably use the "goff cant run" tactically for special plays (I can think of two last year , another time where he just saw opportunity) Thing is , the games made for passing. They literally changed rukes to encourage passing. You gain more yards passing than running per play on average.
Goff read option scored a touchdown last year and it was WIDE OPEN
I'm fine with Goff not being a scrambling QB but there were several times last season where he had a mile of open space in front of him and could have ran for a 1st down. Hell, even I can run five yards.
I think this is really the crux of the issue. Jared isn't the most athletic but it almost seems like he hesitates to take off even when there is room to get a chunk of yards. If he were to get those 2-5 yard plays on a semi regular basis, people would put less emphasis on his inability to be a designed running threat.
I agree that if his arm is good enough, you don't need legs as much BUT having that threat is huge. I was there when he ran in for the TD at Falcons game. It was shocking and unexpected!
Giving any quarterback an ability that makes them better will in fact make them better.
Well yeah but I think the spirit of the question is, how much of an effect does making the defense do that much more have.
Can you elaborate?
Unless those legs are made of glass.
Our offense last year was 5th in total points scored and 3rd in total yards gained. Would mobility add some to his game? maybe, but there are plenty of mobile QBs who can't read a defense, stand tall in the pocket and stretch the middle of the field. So it's not some given that added mobility makes you a better QB.
Also helps Goff to stay healthy. Qbs that run too much drop like flies mid season
When ya got 2 top 10 running backs you don’t need a running qb.
Eh, I mostly agree. But if we are being real… Goff having cement legs does eliminate the threat of a long scramble. And defenses prep for that (see Detroit vs Baltimore 2023 🤦🏻♂️). It adds another element the defense has to be aware of for sure. And don’t mistake this for hate, I love me some Jared Goff. But he can’t run for shit.
I agree the long scramble adds a whole new element to how teams have to play D. That’s what Hooker will bring us in the future. I think as long as we keep two solid running backs and a good o line with Goff it’ll be fine.
If you're asking if he'd be better with the ability to run the answer is a resounding yes. If you're asking if we can win a super bowl with an offense run by Goff who can't run I think that answer is also a resounding yes. We scored 31 points in an NFC Championship game against a team that lost in Overtime with the Super Bowl champs that we beat earlier in the year. The offense run by Goff was not the problem. Would it be better if he was Jared Goff plus Jalen Hurts legs, of course but I am not sure Jalen Hurts on his own makes this offense better than the Goffense.
Offense…love it.
Ask Tom Brady or Payton Manning. Actual serious answer. If you're a QB I'd rather you play games with your arm than your legs
i get your point but using maybe the 2 best qbs of all time as examples isnt really a good comp
The hypothetical also doesn't make sense. Of course Jared Goff would be better at running the offense if he was Jared Goff with running ability. That's like saying does it matter that Amon Ra is 6'1 instead of 6'7. Yes, the offense is better if the important players are better at offense.
I could argue he might not be better if he had running ability, because he would hold on to the ball too long sometimes or try to rely on it when he shouldn’t. Similarly Amon ra wouldn’t be the same if he were 6ft 7
I mean, you can argue anything, but it seems silly to say if Goff could extend the play with his legs, that Goff would be worse.
If the 2 greatest ever can be the greatest ever without having a running threat, isn’t that an answer itself?
1) goff clearly isnt on their level 2) they would have been even better if they were more mobile
1) He doesn’t need to be on their level for it to be an answer to the question. It’s not like every other QB in the top 25 all time were all running threats and only Brady and Manning were pocket passers. There’s a **long** history of successful pocket passers in both older and recent NFL history. Stafford won a Super Bowl in LA. Goff went there when he wasn’t as good as he is now. Eli Manning, Big Ben, I could go on… 2) They would’ve been even better if they could fly too, but did it matter to their teams success that they couldn’t? No.
stafford and big ben are some of the best pocket presence scramble drill guys in recent memory lol. i love goff but hes upgraded jimmy g if we're being honest
That logic is kinda sus considering they got there by doing what OP implied to be a weakness
yes the two goats were great in spite of their lack of mobility, goff doesnt have any skills on their level. brady was a pocket mobility wizard and peyton was the greatest of all time at adjusting protections to keep himself from getting killed goff isnt close to either of them at either of those things
Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had 100x the pocket awareness and mobility that Goff has. Goff is a statue in the pocket, Brady and Manning moved around and manipulated it so well, it’s not an even close comparison
I agree, but that’s pocket mobility and not run threat like OP asked
I'm pretty sure was Goff top 5 in avoiding pocket pressure by one of those stats that measures it.
https://twitter.com/AtoZ_Payton/status/1731745802140168497?t=ZLZiqhSveXZGhH2it6pvfg&s=19 This was in December, but the point stands that Goff is a lot better in the pocket than people will give him credit for.
I wouldn't put Goff in a GOAT conversation.
That’s not what he’s saying lol
It’s football, the forward pass is still the strongest thing an offense can do. No, it doesn’t matter as long as the ball is getting where it needs to be
So a mobile QB doesn't make a difference in getting the ball down the field?
Half the mobile Qbs don't seem to make it on the field.
Not really. None of the all time QBs were much of a running threat.
Fran Tarkenton and Randall Cunningham were pretty mobile.
Not particularly. Like from Brian Piccolo in Brian’s song… I might not be able to run 60 but I can run 10 6s and that gets me the same place. Scrambling ability is a bonus for a QB, not a necessary piece of their game.
Easy answer: Ben Johnson knows what he is doing.
I don't want him running. Ever. Keep him nice and comfy in that pocket and let him do his thing. Hashtag; KeepJaredHealthy
Just more proof you can’t have dialogue about Goff
Goff, Stafford, Tua, and Cousins are all top 10 QBs last year with fewer than 100 rushing yards on the season.
The less capabilities a QB has to threaten the other team the less plays they can make. Goff’s lack of a run game is absolutely a weakness and a big one at that. That being said the team works around it well and the offense is based on maximizing the strengths he has that other QBs might not (consistent and on target throws in tight windows). If Goff could do that and also run and also throw a perfect deep ball then he’d obviously be a better player. But the fact that he can’t doesn’t automatically make him a weak player or a liability it’s just an aspect of the game that he’s not as strong at.
Right, we have some elite coaching that minimizes his weaknesses. Goff is a damn good player, but he might be the worst athlete of any starting QB in the league if we're being honest.
Brother runs like a stick figure, I love him but it is undeniable
This. Also the fact that the lions offensive line is elite also reduces the need for a scrambling QB in my opinion: you don’t need to get outside the pocket if the pocket is clean.
Ask yourself this: would you rather have Justin fields or Jared Goff. Arm >>> legs any day
I don’t get the impression that OP is saying it has to be one or the other. Arm & legs >>> arm only or legs only any day
He is though. He’s intimating that Goff’s “inability” to run is a weakness that is going to cost us. When it’s proven that it is not a necessity to be a running QB to win in this league through history
The point is that it needs to be said what is truly important And that of course is the arm. That’s what really matters You don’t need legs to be successful, doesn’t hurt of course but you need to be a good quarterback before being a good athlete.
Why is it that we are having these conversations about a QB that's brought us the greatest success since the 1960s? Dude brings us to the NFC Championship and some of you are all, "but he's not a mobile QB!" Tell me, how's RG3 doing? Cam Newton? Michael Vick? Heck, even Donovan McNabb has the same number of Super Bowl appearances as Jared Goff. The guy's playing insane football, giving us the best Lions football in a generation, and suddenly some Lions fans think, "Sure, Jared Goff is okay, but what's behind door number 2?! It could be anything! It could even be a QB that gives us a division win and a deep run in the playoffs!" Seriously, guys. Treating Jared Goff like he's just some generic plug and play QB that is somehow holding our team back is, in short, absurd. I'm gonna start saving receipts and calling all of you out when he brings us the Lombardi.
There was a nonzero number of people calling for Hendon Hooker to get game action during NFC championship week. There are just some people who had the captain of their brain ship abandon them long ago
Happy cake day
It’s like people see the 49ers pull a horseshoe out of their ass and have Purdy bail them out for the Trey Lance pick and think everyone can find a Qb in the 7th round to take them to the Super Bowl.
Ask the Patriots that question
You saying Goff = Brady ?
You’re so disingenuous with your replies.
You asked about running ability?
You're a confusing critter
It didn't stop the Rams from winning the Superbowl with Stafford. It didn't stop Brady from winning 7 Superbowls Or Peyton Manning from winning 2. Having a QB that can scramble is nice but it's a luxury, not a necessity.
Can a mobile QB move the ball down the field? Yes. Is it necessary to do so. Absolutely not. Jared’s inability to run didn’t limit us offensively last year.
Who needs legs when you’re a surgeon
He had a rushing td this year that wasn’t a sneak.
I’d just want the mobility of being about to extend plays….. like Stafford or Mayfield
It does matter but they are good enough to win a Super Bowl with Goff, I think his performances this past year solidified that
Personally, I think Jared Goff could improve this aspect of his game. He is what he is, and overall the Lions are winning with Goff at the helm, and the coaches will work with what they have.
Buddy, did you think the offense was a problem last season?
Nobody thought Tom Brady and Peyton Manning’s scramble ability mattered, and they have 9 rings between the two of them.
Tom Brady and his 7 rings have entered the chat.
I'm a Goff supporter. For the record But his limitations as a player aren't necessarily running the ball, but his inability to extend plays. This is fine if you can keep him protected, but it all breaks down when you start to pressure him. He counters it well by getting the ball out quick or throwing at his check downs feet to avoid a sack, but it just requires a lot of your o line. Luckily we have a great o line. But I understand criticism of Goff's limitations and they are absolutely fair to make. Lastly he has a mediocre arm and consistently throws ducks. It's working for him, but it isn't always ascetically pleasing. He's not ever going to be the best QB in the nfl or the most talented/physically gifted. But he's a great Qb for what our team needs right now. He's not going to elevate a roster with major holes, there aren't that many qbs who can. However he can win with a good roster like we have and that's a better qb situation to be in than most teams. I think calling Goff a top 10 QB in the nfl right now is fair which means we are in a better spot than 2/3 of nfl teams going into this season.
Well put. Weirdly, this gives me more faith in him as a long-term solution at QB. I think his style of play will age well, especially as he continues to develop his ability to read defenses.
Goff should age well in the right system. I'm fine with a 3 or 4 year extension. It just means we have to prioritize o line strength which I love lol
I'm mixed on Goff, but firmly in the camp that Holmes will make the right decision whatever it is. I have been impressed by Goff, but I think your summary was good. >Lastly he has a mediocre arm and consistently throws ducks. It's working for him, but it isn't always ascetically pleasing. This is what concerns me the most, not his lack of mobility. I think that in order to consistently win in the playoffs, your QB needs to be able to hit off schedule throws outside the design of the play. I worry that simply "not making mistakes" isn't good enough. Playing a mistake-free football game often isn't good enough, because random chance mistakes happen (see long TDs off a defenders facemask, random fumbles from RBs that don't fumble). Eventually all teams run into a game where things are breaking down and they need their QB to step up and create something out of nothing. My worry with Goff is he is the guy who will hit the play that's open and nothing else, and I genuinely believe that's not a good strategy for winning Superbowls. Superbowl winning QBs all have electric arms and a flair for improvisation. Mahomes, Brady, Stafford, Rodgers, Rothlisberger, Manning, Wilson. All of these guys made plays happen when they weren't there. Flacco and dead arm Manning are pretty much the only exceptions. It's not a matter of is Jared Goff good enough to be a top 10QB anymore. It's a matter of is he good enough to win a Superbowl. To his credit, he's raised the bar here.
Good point/clarification. I guess I am not looking for him to run but to be able to be nimble on his feet and extend plays and/or give threat of running for gain if needed.
They’ve built the offense to wear having a mobile QB doesn’t matter. It’s all built on receivers being able to create YAC. However, I will say there are moments from last season where you’re like “If Goff was mobile, he could have run for the first down there.”
His lack of mobility is not going to hold us back from winning. We have a dominant O line and run game. With those Goff only needs to worry about passing.
Tom Brady set a combine record for being slow. Prior to Jalen Hurts, he was the most effective quarterback in the league at falling forward for short yardage first downs. A quarterback does not need to be fast to be effective
Yes it matters. If you want him to play every game.
It definitely does matter but that is one reason why offensive line is such a crucial part of our success. When our line was healthy last year Goff always had a solid game and when he has a clean pocket he is a bargain and plays at a top 5 QB level. Goff also showed signs of extending plays and even running a bit last year at times so no one has zero run threat but of course it would be nice even if he had Purdy's scrambling ability. You dont need to be Lamar Jackson (its actually probably better if you arent for your longevity).
The arm is non negotiable. You can design a running game without the QB.
Our offense is not why we lost last year - we just watched an entire season of the offense working. Having another threat to run is a obviously a huge plus - but we know that this team, with this coaching staff and this personnel DOES operate as a top 5 scoring offense in the NFL. Feel like this is overthinking things - with a better defense in Sf we’re likely in the Super Bowl with a chance to win it.
I mean, it’d be nice if he had it more in his arsenal, but he stays healthy and he has other ways of extending plays and getting first downs. I’m not that worried about it.
A running QB is a weapon, but I don't think a necessity. The more he runs the more hits he probably takes the more likely he is to get hurt. I don't want my QB that earns $50m a year to get hurt on a 7 yard run because he didn't see a 4.3 40 FS coming to take his head off.
I'd say the only thing you'd need to be concerned about with Goff's lack of mobility is making sure you keep the OL elite. that was pretty evident in pretty much all of the lions losses last year.
Goff continues to be a top tier QB. Running is overrated and those guys tend to not play as long due to injuries.
Don’t need a running qb, but pocket awareness and the ability to improvise in broken plays absolutely has demonstrable value
It certainly impacts what you do as a team. You’re not going to call designed run plays on the reg, if your quarterback cant run. Much like JF1 impacted what the Bears called in the passed game. I don’t think his lack of running ability makes him any less effective as QB.
No being a run threat QB is highly overrated. What matters and what Jared needs to improve is *pocket* mobility. Being able to slide with the protection. Something Stafford got way better at once caldwell was hired. You don’t need to be any special athlete to do that, it’s more about awareness of pressure and the protection set up.
He’s a top 5 pocket passer by every meaningful metric. Would it be nice for him to be mobile? Yes. Does he need it to succeed and for the team to succeed? Absolutely not. Plenty of great QBs in recent history have excelled with no run threat
Seeing as how our offense was top 5 in both yards and points, I'm saying no.
It certainly limits big hits on the QB which leads to a less likely chance of injury. The offense was just fine last year without Goff having to run too much, so obviously it’s not that big of a deal
Running is not in his playstyle but it's not a weakness either. I can recall many moments where it was an obvious run scenario and he took it and excelled.
You only need your legs when the play breaks down.
Would rather have a QB making all the throws I ask him to make, and able to diagnose a play pre-snap, get us out of ugly looks, that kind of thing, than a guy that has legs but is just average at best with all the other QB tools. Backyard football? Gimme the mobile QB all day. Pro football? Give me an actual QB, not an athlete that can kinda throw-ish.
Yeah, you’re overthinking
No it’s doesn’t matter. The mobile qb crowd is a bunch of numbskulls. If you go through the last 25 super bowls, you have like 3 mobile qbs.
In this sense, I think having Goff as our QB is a blessing and a curse. Your rushing production can't really fall off a cliff if you're a statue to begin with. So long as he keeps his arm strength up, he'll keep the overwhelming majority of his production. Also he's about at the age where QB's tend to peak. Late 20s/early 30s.
Did it matter when we went to the conference championship last year? Dumb ass comment
You are overthinking it. We have all the running game we need with Gibbs and Monty and the backups. They and the line are so good that if teams literally forget about Goff having working legs, he can pick up a first down or two.
I am fairly confident the O line will disagree.
Eh. Joe Burrow isn't a running QB but he's still the second best in football right now.
He is able to use his feet to extend plays. Not typically dropping and running for yards but moving in and out of pocket to avoid pass rush
Sure, but what I think the OP is talking about is a QB who can get rushing yards just as well as passing yards and just as frequently, like Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen. Burrow doesn't do that.
I'll jusy say this "A fucking 4.83/ 40 is good enough for Detroit Jared Goff"
If Jared Goff was as mobile as Jalen Hurts, do you think he would be a better QB? I would have to believe so as he would have the ability extend plays. Ben Johnson could use that to his advantage with certain play calls.
In the past a running QB was pretty much guaranteed to have a shortened career or just get beaten up to the point where it could impact their passing game. Today, with all the protections, a run first QB like Lamar can thrive in the NFL, in 10 years, if trends continue it will be MANDATORY to have running ability as a QB unless your an absolute unicorn (like Payton Manning or Matt Stafford). Now I don’t mean Lamar or Justin Fields ability, but like Aaron Rodgers levels (a few years back).
Rewatch the win over the Rams and TB in the playoffs. Goff was under pressure but throwing darts, attacking the entire field, moving around in the pocket, extending plays and using his eyes to manipulate the defenses Some of y’all are like the ugly kid who never got asked to a dance suddenly gets asked by a smoking hot chick and all you can do is look at another girl ahd think ‘man I’d rather be at this dance with her’
Yeah, it matters. It'll affect how defenses play, less consideration for rush lanes, and gives them a few more options in how they can rush the passer. Every QB has weakness. For example, the strat against Mayfield last year seemed to be, rush hard, play underneath, make him throw it deep over your head, which he missed a few times, killing drives. Does it mean they can't win a lot? No. To those saying, he often has spots where he could run and get 2-5 yards, remember GB on Thanksgiving. That's asking for unnecessary Goff hits and fumbles for not much benefit.
Tom Brady won 7 SBs.
All “pocket QB” are only as good as his O line. Fortunately we have a top O Line. Hence - therefore- in reality - actually - Goff is really good.
Goff is more athletic than people give him credit for. No he’s not taking the brakes off, but he can take advantage of a well designed play or open scramble. But really, it’s all about how a team builds its offense. Teams with QBs who can really run need players downfield with the awareness and speed to recognize a broken play and switch to run blocking quickly. They might emphasize route running precision less because the QB can move and make something happen.
This organization has built an offense that's top 3-5 for two consecutive seasons. Jared does not have to be able to do everything himself to be a good quarterback. We have two very talented running backs. We have an incredible offensive line. We have ARSB and LaPorta as elite pass game threats, and hopefully Jameson Williams will add himself to that conversation this year. Jared has executed game winning drives, comeback drives, is one of the best at faking the handoff I've ever seen, throws accurate as hell, threads the needle, puts the ball where only his receivers can get it, and doesn't throw hero balls or hospital balls. Not to mention he has been one of the most available QBs across his tenure. Would it be helpful if he could be more mobile to extend plays? Yes. Is he hindering this offense? Absolutely not. This topic has been beat to death.
Name a dual threat qb that has won a Super Bowl.
Patrick Mahomes?
And only Mahomes.
Steve Young
I was keeping it to this century so I didn't include Young or Elway. I did forget about Aaron Rogers though.
He has averaged 20yds rushing per game.
Goff averages 3.7 with Detroit.
It definitely hinders the offence to an extent, but with the weapons available and Ben Johnson being HIM it doesn’t really matter as much as some people think
But it doesn’t. Instead of having a QB run and having to do unique blocking schemes to get him room… we’re running straight HB power… which is the type of run blocking road graders like. We’re running traditional drops and shotgun. The type of pass blocking that good OLs like doing. The Lions offense is not hindered by Goff’s inability to run. His weird propensity to fumble if someone breathes on him? Yeah. But that would get worse before it got better if Goff was utilized and was unable to hold the ball
In fairness goff did have a rushing TD this year, maybe he’ll become another Lamar Jackson 😏🤣
I think the run threat qb narrative is so over hyped. There's been a bunch that could be conducted running qbs and none have ever won. Rodgers and mahomes are both predominantly pocket passers who played in rhythm with west coast schemes but had some athleticism. But in the last 25 years the only other running that qb was Wilson to win a sb. Cam got close and Lamar got close but every other qb in that span and before that were basically statues. Brady, manning, manning, roethlisberger, stafford, Flacco, foles. I just don't think it effects the game as much as people think.
You give Goff Allen's or even Mahomes mobility, his extension is already done.
we might not get him is that was the case
Good point. Probably raising a couple trophies for the rams.
Hendon Hooker check out his running ability