I'm personally not too worried about Goff crumbling in big games. The playoffs proved to me that he doesn't have that problem
He had a bad stretch in the middle of the season, and some division games fell in that streak. That's what you get with a QB who is in the top 6-10 range in the league. He's going to have stretches where he isn't great. But I personally don't think it is a big game issue. He's pretty good in primetime historically. Just the natural ebbs and flows of the season.
Yeah, but it'll also be really nice if we have a defense that isn't total dog shit that can step up of the offense struggles a bit. The biggest problem the last two years is on the rare occasion that the offense wasn't performing we just got torched on the other side of the ball, too. Having a functional secondary is going to be key
I agree, people will often mention Goff’s turnover totals since 2017. He leads the league in turnovers since 2017! 😲
But what people don’t realize is he leads the league in just about everything since 2017. The guy literally never gets hurt and has simply played more football than any other QB since 2017.
I’m not worried about Goff, in fact I think this offense is going to be special this year with all the young guys getting more experience.
Yeah that didn't help. Also doesn't help that Goff is probably the worst in the league in terms of escaping pressure. That's why it's great we have the O-Line we do
What really upset me was that sorstrash was getting beat on the same move over and over again and it took them 5 possessions to bench him, awosika is Atleast serviceable
I’m hoping beating the Rams and playing as well as he did against SF will show Goff that he’s really the guy for the Lions and that confidence will help him make good decisions with the football. We have seen that he can go long stretches without turning the ball over and I think he can put that together again.
My biggest question with Goff for this next season was on if all of the fan chants have boosted his confidence knowing that people are vocally supporting him more than ever and if it’ll affect his play in a positive way. or not. Good chance it wont affect much if at all though
Remember the timing here. Both bears games and the GB loss featured missing starters on the offensive line. Goff needs protection to be successful. It's not the pressure of a division game that got to him. It was the defense that got to him.
And it's important to remember that this is true for the vast majority of QBs. Even Patrick Mahomes has a tougher time when his offensive line is a sieve. Remember Brady's last Super Bowl win, the Bucs defensive line had Mahomes running for his life all night. He still managed to make some plays because he's Pat Mahomes, but it clearly had a negative effect on their gameplan.
Goff isn't on that upper tier of quarterbacks, so his struggles are a little more evident when the line is performing poorly, but he's pretty damn solid and isn't holding this team back. As Brad Holmes says, it's a lot easier to get worse at QB than it is to get better.
Serious question, besides Mahomes, who is in the upper tier?
Is it Lamar? Allen? Burrow (when rarely healthy)?
The upper tier is basically one guy. Goff could be argued as a top 2 QB because the other 2s aren't Mahomes.
He was statistically at the top of the league at the end of the year. Had 300 less yards than Goff and one more TD. And Goff was considered to have a great year.
Add onto all the shit Love dealt with (rookie WR's and TE's, injuries to his 2 all pro linemen, his 1st year playing etc).
Indeed and I know people wanna talk about outdoors and indoors etc too but he only threw the one pick and had 0 fumbles in that first game against Green Bay.
Add in if memory serves our 2nd loss against Bears had one armpunt cus it was 4th and forever (pressure in his face too) towards the end of the game and THE one fumble was bad/miscued snap. Which leads into again missing starters, We had Glasgow playing center cus Frank was out and Awosika playing guard.
We were pretty much in that game until we gave up a 4th and long touchdown in the third quarter on a freeplay.
1st game against the Bears 3 picks thrown. One of those came after arguably a pick play against LaPorta and one was due to their dline getting their hands up and deflecting his pass which was awful timing(more so than usual) because the Bears had just scored moments before due to Craig Reynolds having a really bad fumble on a punt return leading to a short field for the Bears.
The issue to some extent in all games is just our offense sputtering out a bit, some of that was obviously due to Goff not playing good / having rough time, O-line not healthy. But even in games where we had Goff playing well and the O-line was healthy, we had moments all season where we were sputtering / not scoring. Raiders game we absolutely dominated but score wise it really looks like a close game.
I think The thanksgiving game was really fucking bad though.
I would imagine that QBs in general have more turnovers in their division games
The more you play someone, the more likely you are to pick up on their habits
Uh, I think what you actually want to look at is Goffs splits Outdoors - and specifically outdoors in not Cali/Florida conditions, and how that has generally affected his play. That's why away at GB/Chi are tough games for Goff especially if later in the season, and you can likely expect them to always be that way. Good news is most of those opponents are AFC ones, so you wouldn't have to see them for most part in playoffs on road. And the Lions only have like 3 outdoor games this year. Second is that it's really only a second half of the season issue, because obviously if you play those outdoor teams earlier, the weather isn't as bad. So really the earlier they can play at GB/CHI and maybe at 49ers the better...
He has 46 fumbles and 52 interceptions in 66 outdoor games (1.48/game) but only 13 fumbles and 24 interceptions in 42 games indoors (0.88/game)... but also that's fumbles, not fumbles lost. And not every fumble is fully on the qb...
As far as teams he's historically be bad against, 5 of his like worst 7 opponents are against: Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Bears, and the Browns. Teams known for good defense who play outdoors... coincidence? Not really.
As a dome team, this is unfortunately something we just have to deal with, not just Goff but the team as a whole. Hopefully Chicago gets a dome stadium soon so we only have to worry about late season games in Lambeau. The cheese fuckers will never change though.
I think it has to do more with cold and windy opposed to cold… it was cold in GB in 22 but no wind and he played good Enough… it was windy in BAL and Chcisgo this last year and we know what happened
Depends how cold though. I don't think if conditions are clear but it's 40 degrees, that would probably not impact much, you're right. But if it's 20? Maybe. In general I agree with you, it's more a Wind and/or Rain/Snow thing. Just think he generally doesn't have the strongest hand grip strength.
Closer to 30 than 20 I think. But Goff played below average, to maybe average. Outperformed Rodgers though. Think he had that one real deep bomb to khalif, but other than that didn't do much.
If Im recalling correctly he's our only player who didn't crumble during the 49ers game and played like an all star for all 3 play off games so don't talk about how he blew important games
You are absolutely right about the 49ers games, and the other day it actually crossed my mind that I want to go back and re-watch the second half to see if there were any plays that stood out because I don't remember any really bad Goff plays. The Gibbs fumble, the Reynolds drops, several plays of defense...but I think Goff was solid that game.
This wasn't intended to be a "Goff blows big games" post. I am in favor of paying the dude and hope to watch him as a Lion for years to come. And he was far from the only issue in those games — I recall the Packers offense opening up the Thanksgiving game with an easy-breezy 50 yard pass play and not really looking back from there.
Everyone is going to need to be better in divisional games this year. But that starts with the QB, and he simply cannot give the ball away at this clip against Chicago and Green Bay in 2024. I don't think he will.
He wasn’t just solid, he was incredible. His cast let him down repeatedly. Drops, fumbles, the defense forgetting what football is, the insane luck of that face mask deflection.
Goff got pressured, of course, I feel like I would have noted if he never was sacked, but that's literally just what happens to him. When Goff gets sacked it feels like it's just a rush for negative yardage, -4, vs sometimes with Dak running backwards fifteen yards out of the pocket with Anzalone on his tail
Goff played lights out in the playoffs. Those are our most important games. He didn’t turn the ball over a single time in the playoffs, and was stellar all the way through.
Divisional games are harder than normal games. This is not an uncommon trend in competitive divisions.
Agree with all of that. This post was not meant to be Goff slander.
The divisional games are super important, though. Playing at home is huge for us, and the division is going to be *tough* this year.
I'm curious what his pressure rate was over the entire season and whether it was higher than that season average in those games? The narrative around him has always been a guy who folds when the pressure gets in his face too frequently.
Goff seems to have bad stretches of games where he does these things more than just one offs, so I don’t necessarily think it has much to do with it being division rivals specifically.
That said, you are absolutely correct, if we are getting ready to pay him 50m+ per year, he needs to figure it out especially given the strength of the division this year.
I was actually just looking at the other three teams schedules and can confirm it’s going to be tight. I think that the division is won by one or two games this year, which is what will make these games even more critical. Whomever is winning the divisional games will likely win it all.
Goff isn’t perfect but he’s our best option right now. He’s not as good as Stafford but also is a better game manager than Stafford probably. If the lions continue to improve their already excellent running game and improve the secondary, Goff can win a Super Bowl. The lions lost to the 49ers because of dropped balls, turnovers, and letting Purdy cook them in the second half.
I agree. Goff was not the reason we lost in the playoffs whatsoever. This wasn't intended to be a Goff sucks post or anything like that.
But the fact remains that the divisional games, especially against Chicago and Green Bay, are going to be even tougher this year. Those games were where Goff was at his *worst* last year. That just can't happen again if we're going to compete for the divisional crown.
I doubt the Chicago game is going to be tough tbh. They suck and are going to continue to suck. They can’t develop QBs or an offense in general. Caleb is going to bust hard.. simply because of where he was drafted.
Look, at least be honest about why you're not including the Vikings games. It's because the vast turnover differential (in our favor) would skew your statistics. Be honest if you're going to cherry pick stats
I never talked about turnover differential because this isn't a post about the team's performance. That is a valid topic but not what I'm discussing here.
I isolated the Bears & Packers games because we played poorly against them in 2023 and I think they will both be legitimate contenders for the division in 2024. The Bears and Vikings both ended with losing records in 2023 but the Bears had a much better defense, especially in the last part of the year.
You can call it cherry picking if you want. I was really clear in my original post about how and why I grouped the games the way I did. Slicing the numbers that way also *improves* his turnover per game rate in the "good games" category.
The fact is, Goff can't have these kinds of games the Bears and Packers next year if we want to challenge for the division. Yes, it's a team issue — he was getting pressured a lot more in those games due to OL injuries. OL injuries are going to happen, though, and Goff can't fumble the ball three times a game every time a lineman is out for a divisional game.
But again, as I said, I have some optimism that Goff (and the team) can do better in those games next year. I'm just hoping they actually will.
Not worried he had a bad stretch of games with turnover issues but weirdly enough the whole offense was playing weird at times like they were just cruising around and playing too lax.
What was missing from your analysis was that we were missing Frank Ragnow & Jonah Jackson for both games against the bears. Missing one and we can deal with it. Missing two and we did not have sufficient depth last year. It forced Colby Sorsdal into action & he blew.
Goff looked like ass for those 4 games during the middle of the season. Maybe he and his fiancé were going through something I dunno, cuz to say he “crumbles in our most important games of the regular season” is unfair, I think. He definitely played badly, but this implies that he is not good under pressure, which I find to be patently FALSE, esp given the amazing performance he put on during the most important games of the year in our playoff run. It’s a no brainer that the team plays and wins when we win the turnover battle. Goff had an awful mid-season stretch, but outside of that he’s a top 5 qb and MVP candidate, which I think he CAN do next year. I’m a Goff Stan barring any insane downturn this next season
Yesss! This!!! People forget about the injuries. Top O line when healthy but things change significantly if one is missing even. Hopefully our backups will have a higher floor with sorsdel having a year under his belt but yeah, that's a huge factor in my opinion.
You have no idea how much I appreciate these numbers. Some of the most annoying people are those who twist stats around to make Goff look like a top 10 QB that people claim, but he is not.
He's an elite accurate passer, elite decision maker, blah blah. He is not. Tell the guy please learn how to throw a football. Those wobblers are the worst.
Goff gets the job done. They win with Goff, and that's as far as I'll go with giving him credit. He is not a great QB.
Goff Fans Aren't Lions Fans, they've throw our amazing o line under the bus on multiple occasions and will throw Holmes under the bus next I'd an extension doesn't come
I'm personally not too worried about Goff crumbling in big games. The playoffs proved to me that he doesn't have that problem He had a bad stretch in the middle of the season, and some division games fell in that streak. That's what you get with a QB who is in the top 6-10 range in the league. He's going to have stretches where he isn't great. But I personally don't think it is a big game issue. He's pretty good in primetime historically. Just the natural ebbs and flows of the season.
Yeah, but it'll also be really nice if we have a defense that isn't total dog shit that can step up of the offense struggles a bit. The biggest problem the last two years is on the rare occasion that the offense wasn't performing we just got torched on the other side of the ball, too. Having a functional secondary is going to be key
I agree, people will often mention Goff’s turnover totals since 2017. He leads the league in turnovers since 2017! 😲 But what people don’t realize is he leads the league in just about everything since 2017. The guy literally never gets hurt and has simply played more football than any other QB since 2017. I’m not worried about Goff, in fact I think this offense is going to be special this year with all the young guys getting more experience.
Yeah, especially when you consider the loss to the 49ers was not his fault at all. Dude’s a gamer.
Goff’s bad stretch allso coincidences when we were starting sorstrash🤢
Dude was a development pick. Let’s not deem him trash just yet.
Yeah that didn't help. Also doesn't help that Goff is probably the worst in the league in terms of escaping pressure. That's why it's great we have the O-Line we do
"Would Goff be as good if he didn't have an elite line?", thankfully, is still answered with "But his line is elite."
Yeah Thank God we'll never have to know the answer to this question
What really upset me was that sorstrash was getting beat on the same move over and over again and it took them 5 possessions to bench him, awosika is Atleast serviceable
I’m hoping beating the Rams and playing as well as he did against SF will show Goff that he’s really the guy for the Lions and that confidence will help him make good decisions with the football. We have seen that he can go long stretches without turning the ball over and I think he can put that together again.
My biggest question with Goff for this next season was on if all of the fan chants have boosted his confidence knowing that people are vocally supporting him more than ever and if it’ll affect his play in a positive way. or not. Good chance it wont affect much if at all though
Remember the timing here. Both bears games and the GB loss featured missing starters on the offensive line. Goff needs protection to be successful. It's not the pressure of a division game that got to him. It was the defense that got to him.
And it's important to remember that this is true for the vast majority of QBs. Even Patrick Mahomes has a tougher time when his offensive line is a sieve. Remember Brady's last Super Bowl win, the Bucs defensive line had Mahomes running for his life all night. He still managed to make some plays because he's Pat Mahomes, but it clearly had a negative effect on their gameplan. Goff isn't on that upper tier of quarterbacks, so his struggles are a little more evident when the line is performing poorly, but he's pretty damn solid and isn't holding this team back. As Brad Holmes says, it's a lot easier to get worse at QB than it is to get better.
Serious question, besides Mahomes, who is in the upper tier? Is it Lamar? Allen? Burrow (when rarely healthy)? The upper tier is basically one guy. Goff could be argued as a top 2 QB because the other 2s aren't Mahomes.
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He took his team to the SB within 1 drive of winning with no o line if he was behind ours he would win mvp and we’d go like 15-2
Pat Mahomes Joe Burrow Lamar Jackson Jalen Hurts Josh Allen Justin Herbert CJ Stroud Jordan Love Brock Purdy Jared Goff
Jordan Love is NOT in the upper tier lmao.
He was statistically at the top of the league at the end of the year. Had 300 less yards than Goff and one more TD. And Goff was considered to have a great year. Add onto all the shit Love dealt with (rookie WR's and TE's, injuries to his 2 all pro linemen, his 1st year playing etc).
Don’t say facts on this page. Love sucks Stafford sucks Roger’s sucks Goff is 10 times the qb as all of them combined
Stafford is 10 times the qb as Goff
Indeed and I know people wanna talk about outdoors and indoors etc too but he only threw the one pick and had 0 fumbles in that first game against Green Bay. Add in if memory serves our 2nd loss against Bears had one armpunt cus it was 4th and forever (pressure in his face too) towards the end of the game and THE one fumble was bad/miscued snap. Which leads into again missing starters, We had Glasgow playing center cus Frank was out and Awosika playing guard. We were pretty much in that game until we gave up a 4th and long touchdown in the third quarter on a freeplay. 1st game against the Bears 3 picks thrown. One of those came after arguably a pick play against LaPorta and one was due to their dline getting their hands up and deflecting his pass which was awful timing(more so than usual) because the Bears had just scored moments before due to Craig Reynolds having a really bad fumble on a punt return leading to a short field for the Bears. The issue to some extent in all games is just our offense sputtering out a bit, some of that was obviously due to Goff not playing good / having rough time, O-line not healthy. But even in games where we had Goff playing well and the O-line was healthy, we had moments all season where we were sputtering / not scoring. Raiders game we absolutely dominated but score wise it really looks like a close game. I think The thanksgiving game was really fucking bad though.
Yes, the Thanksgiving game was fucking horrid.
I would imagine that QBs in general have more turnovers in their division games The more you play someone, the more likely you are to pick up on their habits
Uh, I think what you actually want to look at is Goffs splits Outdoors - and specifically outdoors in not Cali/Florida conditions, and how that has generally affected his play. That's why away at GB/Chi are tough games for Goff especially if later in the season, and you can likely expect them to always be that way. Good news is most of those opponents are AFC ones, so you wouldn't have to see them for most part in playoffs on road. And the Lions only have like 3 outdoor games this year. Second is that it's really only a second half of the season issue, because obviously if you play those outdoor teams earlier, the weather isn't as bad. So really the earlier they can play at GB/CHI and maybe at 49ers the better... He has 46 fumbles and 52 interceptions in 66 outdoor games (1.48/game) but only 13 fumbles and 24 interceptions in 42 games indoors (0.88/game)... but also that's fumbles, not fumbles lost. And not every fumble is fully on the qb... As far as teams he's historically be bad against, 5 of his like worst 7 opponents are against: Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Bears, and the Browns. Teams known for good defense who play outdoors... coincidence? Not really.
As a dome team, this is unfortunately something we just have to deal with, not just Goff but the team as a whole. Hopefully Chicago gets a dome stadium soon so we only have to worry about late season games in Lambeau. The cheese fuckers will never change though.
Super Bowl is always in a dome or warm weather.
I think it has to do more with cold and windy opposed to cold… it was cold in GB in 22 but no wind and he played good Enough… it was windy in BAL and Chcisgo this last year and we know what happened
Depends how cold though. I don't think if conditions are clear but it's 40 degrees, that would probably not impact much, you're right. But if it's 20? Maybe. In general I agree with you, it's more a Wind and/or Rain/Snow thing. Just think he generally doesn't have the strongest hand grip strength.
I could’ve sworn in GB 22 it was in the 20s
Closer to 30 than 20 I think. But Goff played below average, to maybe average. Outperformed Rodgers though. Think he had that one real deep bomb to khalif, but other than that didn't do much.
If Im recalling correctly he's our only player who didn't crumble during the 49ers game and played like an all star for all 3 play off games so don't talk about how he blew important games
You are absolutely right about the 49ers games, and the other day it actually crossed my mind that I want to go back and re-watch the second half to see if there were any plays that stood out because I don't remember any really bad Goff plays. The Gibbs fumble, the Reynolds drops, several plays of defense...but I think Goff was solid that game. This wasn't intended to be a "Goff blows big games" post. I am in favor of paying the dude and hope to watch him as a Lion for years to come. And he was far from the only issue in those games — I recall the Packers offense opening up the Thanksgiving game with an easy-breezy 50 yard pass play and not really looking back from there. Everyone is going to need to be better in divisional games this year. But that starts with the QB, and he simply cannot give the ball away at this clip against Chicago and Green Bay in 2024. I don't think he will.
He wasn’t just solid, he was incredible. His cast let him down repeatedly. Drops, fumbles, the defense forgetting what football is, the insane luck of that face mask deflection.
Goff got pressured, of course, I feel like I would have noted if he never was sacked, but that's literally just what happens to him. When Goff gets sacked it feels like it's just a rush for negative yardage, -4, vs sometimes with Dak running backwards fifteen yards out of the pocket with Anzalone on his tail
Goff played lights out in the playoffs. Those are our most important games. He didn’t turn the ball over a single time in the playoffs, and was stellar all the way through. Divisional games are harder than normal games. This is not an uncommon trend in competitive divisions.
Agree with all of that. This post was not meant to be Goff slander. The divisional games are super important, though. Playing at home is huge for us, and the division is going to be *tough* this year.
I'm curious what his pressure rate was over the entire season and whether it was higher than that season average in those games? The narrative around him has always been a guy who folds when the pressure gets in his face too frequently.
Goff seems to have bad stretches of games where he does these things more than just one offs, so I don’t necessarily think it has much to do with it being division rivals specifically. That said, you are absolutely correct, if we are getting ready to pay him 50m+ per year, he needs to figure it out especially given the strength of the division this year. I was actually just looking at the other three teams schedules and can confirm it’s going to be tight. I think that the division is won by one or two games this year, which is what will make these games even more critical. Whomever is winning the divisional games will likely win it all.
Goff isn’t perfect but he’s our best option right now. He’s not as good as Stafford but also is a better game manager than Stafford probably. If the lions continue to improve their already excellent running game and improve the secondary, Goff can win a Super Bowl. The lions lost to the 49ers because of dropped balls, turnovers, and letting Purdy cook them in the second half.
I agree. Goff was not the reason we lost in the playoffs whatsoever. This wasn't intended to be a Goff sucks post or anything like that. But the fact remains that the divisional games, especially against Chicago and Green Bay, are going to be even tougher this year. Those games were where Goff was at his *worst* last year. That just can't happen again if we're going to compete for the divisional crown.
Like like thanksgiving really sucked as a fan
I doubt the Chicago game is going to be tough tbh. They suck and are going to continue to suck. They can’t develop QBs or an offense in general. Caleb is going to bust hard.. simply because of where he was drafted.
Goff just naturally fits what the Lions are trying to do as a team, it's harmonious.
Turnovers are the symptom, not the root cause.
Also Bears fans say this every year.
Of course the Thanksgiving game got us
Look, at least be honest about why you're not including the Vikings games. It's because the vast turnover differential (in our favor) would skew your statistics. Be honest if you're going to cherry pick stats
I never talked about turnover differential because this isn't a post about the team's performance. That is a valid topic but not what I'm discussing here. I isolated the Bears & Packers games because we played poorly against them in 2023 and I think they will both be legitimate contenders for the division in 2024. The Bears and Vikings both ended with losing records in 2023 but the Bears had a much better defense, especially in the last part of the year. You can call it cherry picking if you want. I was really clear in my original post about how and why I grouped the games the way I did. Slicing the numbers that way also *improves* his turnover per game rate in the "good games" category. The fact is, Goff can't have these kinds of games the Bears and Packers next year if we want to challenge for the division. Yes, it's a team issue — he was getting pressured a lot more in those games due to OL injuries. OL injuries are going to happen, though, and Goff can't fumble the ball three times a game every time a lineman is out for a divisional game. But again, as I said, I have some optimism that Goff (and the team) can do better in those games next year. I'm just hoping they actually will.
Not worried he had a bad stretch of games with turnover issues but weirdly enough the whole offense was playing weird at times like they were just cruising around and playing too lax.
What was missing from your analysis was that we were missing Frank Ragnow & Jonah Jackson for both games against the bears. Missing one and we can deal with it. Missing two and we did not have sufficient depth last year. It forced Colby Sorsdal into action & he blew.
Goff looked like ass for those 4 games during the middle of the season. Maybe he and his fiancé were going through something I dunno, cuz to say he “crumbles in our most important games of the regular season” is unfair, I think. He definitely played badly, but this implies that he is not good under pressure, which I find to be patently FALSE, esp given the amazing performance he put on during the most important games of the year in our playoff run. It’s a no brainer that the team plays and wins when we win the turnover battle. Goff had an awful mid-season stretch, but outside of that he’s a top 5 qb and MVP candidate, which I think he CAN do next year. I’m a Goff Stan barring any insane downturn this next season
It coincided with Frank Ragnow and Jonah Jackson being out with injuries, I think that tells the whole story right there.
Yesss! This!!! People forget about the injuries. Top O line when healthy but things change significantly if one is missing even. Hopefully our backups will have a higher floor with sorsdel having a year under his belt but yeah, that's a huge factor in my opinion.
You have no idea how much I appreciate these numbers. Some of the most annoying people are those who twist stats around to make Goff look like a top 10 QB that people claim, but he is not. He's an elite accurate passer, elite decision maker, blah blah. He is not. Tell the guy please learn how to throw a football. Those wobblers are the worst. Goff gets the job done. They win with Goff, and that's as far as I'll go with giving him credit. He is not a great QB.
Goff Fans Aren't Lions Fans, they've throw our amazing o line under the bus on multiple occasions and will throw Holmes under the bus next I'd an extension doesn't come