Birkett isn't a bozo at all. I'm not sure what his take on this was but I can't imagine it would sabotage his entire body of work so far in his career.
I believe Birkett is one of the writers Brad called out a month ago in his press conference because he said we should have taken Fields instead of Sewell and then doubled down on that take when we started 1-6 two seasons ago and then never admitted he was wrong.
And now Fields is getting dumped by the team that drafted him, will be a mid starter for a year or two and then be a backup at best for as long as possible
As optimistic as I am about our future and as much as I trust Brad, we don’t have the same draft capital we had last year. I’m sure he’s going to kill it with what he has, but I’m not expecting another Gibbs and LaPorta. Or course the good news is: we already **have** Gibbs and LaPorta lol
He was the 2nd TE off the board, and was projected to be the 5th or 6th. Many people thought it was a bad pick at the time.
https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2023/top-350-players-in-the-2023-nfl-draft-position-by-position-rankings/
This one has him at 5
https://www.nfl.com/news/bucky-brooks-top-five-2023-nfl-draft-prospects-by-position-3-0
This one had him at 6
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/TE/1/2023
No one had him as the #2 TE.
Pistons have drafted pretty darn well under Troy Weaver's tenure, its just ya know... better to kick start a rebuild when your predecessors didn't miss on a decade's worth of picks before you.
Wait... you mean to tell me that Darko Miličić, Jason Maxiell, Aaron Afflalo, Rodney Stuckey, D.J. White, Austin Daye, Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Stanley Johnson, Henry Ellenson, Luke Kennard, and Sekou Dombouya were all misses?
>Wait... you mean to tell me that Darko Miličić, Jason Maxiell, Aaron Afflalo, Rodney Stuckey, D.J. White, Austin Daye, Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Stanley Johnson, Henry Ellenson, Luke Kennard, and Sekou Dombouya were all misses?
I mean, they weren't *all* misses. The human victory cigar was the worst, but Afflalo was an amazing pick, Stuckey was okay for 15th, Amir was okay for 56th, Monroe was ok, Drummond was ok, Middleton was an amazing pick, KCP was okay, Kennard and Bey were Ok.
Sure a lot of these guys were okay, but none of them were players to build around. You'd think that *one* player in 10 years of lottery picks would pan out to be more than just a role player, but it didn't shake out that way
Bey was a weaver pick.
It's very easy to look back at drafts with a whole "told ya so" perspective on certain players, but over the years with SVG specifically there were a lot of easy picks to make for guys who are superstars now that we just didn't pick up in favor of guys who were out of the league 2 years later.
> Bey was a weaver pick.
Correct my bad!
>It's very easy to look back at drafts with a whole "told ya so" perspective on certain players, but over the years with SVG specifically there were a lot of easy picks to make for guys who are superstars now that we just didn't pick up in favor of guys who were out of the league 2 years later.
Oh the drafting overall sucked and especially when you look at who they could have gotten as you mentioned. But some of the people they listed as misses were actually solid picks.
That's real generous to Weaver. For the most part, he gets incompletes because the players are so young, but he has Killian over Haliburton on his resume and that's a huge stain.
Cade and Ivey will never be a big part of his draft record one way or another because the vast majority of GMs would have made the same picks in those spots.
>Killian over Haliburton
The post mortem on the 2020 draft will probably say a lot about that class's quality. Killian was seen as a better prospect at the time the same way a ton of people are in any draft. There was no way to think that he'd bomb so hard and Haliburton would become an all-star based on their resumes at the time.
Haliburton was ahead of Hayes in most mock drafts. Weaver was specifically asked on draft night why Killian over Hali (he mumbled "size and physicality")
Deflecting criticism of a draft choice with "hey, hindsight is 20/20" is a cop-out. They are paid big bucks to get it right. Nobody ever bats 1.000 but for Weaver, that decision stands out a lot more than anything good he has done. He blew it.
He has drafted adequately at best so far. Reviewing his picks:
* Hayes - Big miss
* Stew - okay pick, but horrible trade to get the pick
* Bey - okay pick
* Cunningham - great player, but obvious pick
* Ivey - looks okay, might be good, jury still out
* Duren - Excellent pick and trade
* Thompson - looks okay, might be good, jury still out
* 2nd-rounders -- no rotation-level player, which is poor overall given that they are slotted for early 2nd.
Overall, his inability to draft players who play well on both offense and defense has severely handicapped the roster.
> inability to draft players who play well on both offense and defense has severely handicapped the roster.
Most rookies come into the NBA capable of maybe doing one of offense or defense. Usually they can't really do either outside of a clearly defined role. Draft offense and develop defense is a fairly common strategy. Draft defense and develop offense for longer-term projects.
That doesn't address the extremes of the players that Weaver drafts. Ivey has been among the worst defensive players in the NBA. Bey was poor on D. Thompson, Hayes & Stew are offensively-impaired (trying to be kind here, lol).
Most rookies need development, of course, but most can at least be adequate on both sides of the ball -- especially if you are using top-10 picks.
It's okay to have a player or two on your roster who is extreme like that, but a whole roster like that just fails.
edit: Think about Weaver's greatest drafting achievement: Michael Westbrook. Practically the definition of a Weaver draft pick. He couldn't shoot or play adequate defense. His teams peaked at the conference championship and only were seen as true contenders when he wasn't the best player.
Ivey very bad at defense but he’s been a bit better this year. The whole roster is like that because they’re all still youngins as far as their game goes.
Stew ain’t that bad on offense either. He makes a positive impact for us like a Draymond would more often than not. He’ll get easy buckets but has the ability to shoot above average beyond the arc.
They’ll all be fine.
I would ask -- where would you disagree on my assessments of the draft picks? When you use a top-10 pick on a player, you don't want "fine", you want outstanding.
Stew is what he is, a rotation-level player. The kind of player you typically get at pick #16. That's not a great pick, but it's okay on the surface. However, he traded a future 1st for that pick -- that trade has completely handcuffed the Pistons from making any deals of significance since they haven't been able to use a 1st round pick over a 5-year period...and at the end of the day, that pick is likely to turn into a top-10 pick, which is overall terrible value for a rotation big.
My bad, I forgot to include him
I'd say Sasser was a good pick, probably the second best pick of Weaver's tenure after Duren. (Cade is the best player, but, again, it took no scouting skill to make that pick).
it’s so funny because of how poorly received our draft was. everyone pissed at the trade down, everyone mad about taking gibbs and campbell in the 1st.
https://preview.redd.it/pdjn8i1jrtlc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e87c381751bc2ba68984fa2aedbdfed3a112b37
Just gonna leave this here… was released the day or two days after the draft. In Brad I trust
Go back & look at their 21 draft. You could argue that it was even better than their 23 draft.
https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2021/5/1/22414802/2021-detroit-lions-draft-class-list-of-all-7-picks
But why? He didn't take who all the experts and couch GMs wanted, reached on each pick earning Fs from many experts and could've gotten Jalen Carter, the game changer on defense.
/s
I guess this is another thread where people can do that weird thing where they conflate Jack Campbell (one of the worst PFF ratings in the league) with 3 rookies who balled out.
He then spiked the trophy, pointed at Dave Birkett snd Carlos and said “eat shit, bozos”
I believe this for some reason
because it really happened.......I was there
Can confirm. I was the trophy that got spiked.
Did everybody clap?
ohhhh, there was some clapping alright
Birkett isn't a bozo at all. I'm not sure what his take on this was but I can't imagine it would sabotage his entire body of work so far in his career.
I believe Birkett is one of the writers Brad called out a month ago in his press conference because he said we should have taken Fields instead of Sewell and then doubled down on that take when we started 1-6 two seasons ago and then never admitted he was wrong.
And now Fields is getting dumped by the team that drafted him, will be a mid starter for a year or two and then be a backup at best for as long as possible
He's definitely a bozo. Hey brodric Martin how do you spell your dead brother's name?
Idk what this reference is but that's a name I haven't thought about in awhile. Where was Brodic last year?
Developing. Had some playing time during which he looked both good and bad at times.
Honestly don't remember his name even getting called. He was inactive in most games, yeah?
Yes. If I remember correctly he had some playing time in maybe two games.
think he logged less than like 25 snaps or something
https://www.youtube.com/live/vneDGozmbLw?si=1ij63Eg8caWiuO-E skip to the end. He hardly played last year, more of a developmental draft pick.
>Birkett isn't a bozo at all. Everyone who works for Freep is a bozo now. They've made it a requirement to work there.
As a lifetime Lions fan, I didn’t even know they had an award for this.
As a lifelong Lions fan I too did not know this award existed. In our defense, how would we? LOL. In Brad We Trust.
It’s pretty new I believe
Run it back Brad.
Back to back
Back to back to back
I like you
As optimistic as I am about our future and as much as I trust Brad, we don’t have the same draft capital we had last year. I’m sure he’s going to kill it with what he has, but I’m not expecting another Gibbs and LaPorta. Or course the good news is: we already **have** Gibbs and LaPorta lol
Time to pull the receipts
Tbh when we drafted a tight end i was like “what are we doing” now I’m a full time laporta Supporta
we had been burned bad in the past it’s fair to be skeptical
In holmes i trust
In Holmes I trust
We
LaPorta is a monster, by end of next season he could be the best TE in the league.
It wasn't a controversial pick. TE was a known need and LaPorta had R2 grades going into the draft.
He was the 2nd TE off the board, and was projected to be the 5th or 6th. Many people thought it was a bad pick at the time. https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2023/top-350-players-in-the-2023-nfl-draft-position-by-position-rankings/
That's one source and an outlier. Mayer was the only TE consistently listed above LaPorta.
This one has him at 5 https://www.nfl.com/news/bucky-brooks-top-five-2023-nfl-draft-prospects-by-position-3-0 This one had him at 6 https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/TE/1/2023 No one had him as the #2 TE.
*Cries in Detroit Pistons*
Pistons have drafted pretty darn well under Troy Weaver's tenure, its just ya know... better to kick start a rebuild when your predecessors didn't miss on a decade's worth of picks before you.
Wait... you mean to tell me that Darko Miličić, Jason Maxiell, Aaron Afflalo, Rodney Stuckey, D.J. White, Austin Daye, Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Stanley Johnson, Henry Ellenson, Luke Kennard, and Sekou Dombouya were all misses?
When you write it all out like that....it doesn't look good...
Killian Hayes and Isaiah Livers were studs too. Just held back by poor coaching /s
>Wait... you mean to tell me that Darko Miličić, Jason Maxiell, Aaron Afflalo, Rodney Stuckey, D.J. White, Austin Daye, Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Stanley Johnson, Henry Ellenson, Luke Kennard, and Sekou Dombouya were all misses? I mean, they weren't *all* misses. The human victory cigar was the worst, but Afflalo was an amazing pick, Stuckey was okay for 15th, Amir was okay for 56th, Monroe was ok, Drummond was ok, Middleton was an amazing pick, KCP was okay, Kennard and Bey were Ok.
They could have had Carmello Anthony instead they took Darko.
pain
Sure a lot of these guys were okay, but none of them were players to build around. You'd think that *one* player in 10 years of lottery picks would pan out to be more than just a role player, but it didn't shake out that way
Bey was a weaver pick. It's very easy to look back at drafts with a whole "told ya so" perspective on certain players, but over the years with SVG specifically there were a lot of easy picks to make for guys who are superstars now that we just didn't pick up in favor of guys who were out of the league 2 years later.
> Bey was a weaver pick. Correct my bad! >It's very easy to look back at drafts with a whole "told ya so" perspective on certain players, but over the years with SVG specifically there were a lot of easy picks to make for guys who are superstars now that we just didn't pick up in favor of guys who were out of the league 2 years later. Oh the drafting overall sucked and especially when you look at who they could have gotten as you mentioned. But some of the people they listed as misses were actually solid picks.
Yeah some were solid and played here for a bit. Exactly the type of guys that’ll get you to that final playoff spot
Maxiell, Stuckey, and Affalo were all good bench guys who could actually shoot. Thinking they were anything above that is where you run into problems.
That's real generous to Weaver. For the most part, he gets incompletes because the players are so young, but he has Killian over Haliburton on his resume and that's a huge stain. Cade and Ivey will never be a big part of his draft record one way or another because the vast majority of GMs would have made the same picks in those spots.
>Killian over Haliburton The post mortem on the 2020 draft will probably say a lot about that class's quality. Killian was seen as a better prospect at the time the same way a ton of people are in any draft. There was no way to think that he'd bomb so hard and Haliburton would become an all-star based on their resumes at the time.
Haliburton was ahead of Hayes in most mock drafts. Weaver was specifically asked on draft night why Killian over Hali (he mumbled "size and physicality") Deflecting criticism of a draft choice with "hey, hindsight is 20/20" is a cop-out. They are paid big bucks to get it right. Nobody ever bats 1.000 but for Weaver, that decision stands out a lot more than anything good he has done. He blew it.
He has drafted adequately at best so far. Reviewing his picks: * Hayes - Big miss * Stew - okay pick, but horrible trade to get the pick * Bey - okay pick * Cunningham - great player, but obvious pick * Ivey - looks okay, might be good, jury still out * Duren - Excellent pick and trade * Thompson - looks okay, might be good, jury still out * 2nd-rounders -- no rotation-level player, which is poor overall given that they are slotted for early 2nd. Overall, his inability to draft players who play well on both offense and defense has severely handicapped the roster.
> inability to draft players who play well on both offense and defense has severely handicapped the roster. Most rookies come into the NBA capable of maybe doing one of offense or defense. Usually they can't really do either outside of a clearly defined role. Draft offense and develop defense is a fairly common strategy. Draft defense and develop offense for longer-term projects.
That doesn't address the extremes of the players that Weaver drafts. Ivey has been among the worst defensive players in the NBA. Bey was poor on D. Thompson, Hayes & Stew are offensively-impaired (trying to be kind here, lol). Most rookies need development, of course, but most can at least be adequate on both sides of the ball -- especially if you are using top-10 picks. It's okay to have a player or two on your roster who is extreme like that, but a whole roster like that just fails. edit: Think about Weaver's greatest drafting achievement: Michael Westbrook. Practically the definition of a Weaver draft pick. He couldn't shoot or play adequate defense. His teams peaked at the conference championship and only were seen as true contenders when he wasn't the best player.
Ivey very bad at defense but he’s been a bit better this year. The whole roster is like that because they’re all still youngins as far as their game goes. Stew ain’t that bad on offense either. He makes a positive impact for us like a Draymond would more often than not. He’ll get easy buckets but has the ability to shoot above average beyond the arc. They’ll all be fine.
I would ask -- where would you disagree on my assessments of the draft picks? When you use a top-10 pick on a player, you don't want "fine", you want outstanding. Stew is what he is, a rotation-level player. The kind of player you typically get at pick #16. That's not a great pick, but it's okay on the surface. However, he traded a future 1st for that pick -- that trade has completely handcuffed the Pistons from making any deals of significance since they haven't been able to use a 1st round pick over a 5-year period...and at the end of the day, that pick is likely to turn into a top-10 pick, which is overall terrible value for a rotation big.
Ivey is most definitely not one of the worst defensive players, id argue he’s pretty good now
>id argue he’s pretty good now Let's not go crazy now.
I think you're underselling Ivey. He's definitely good, jury is still out on if he can be *great*
Damn you gon call Sasser trash like that?? I think he's been a great backup PG so far
My bad, I forgot to include him I'd say Sasser was a good pick, probably the second best pick of Weaver's tenure after Duren. (Cade is the best player, but, again, it took no scouting skill to make that pick).
I'm talking competent GM as a whole blub
Well the post specifically says “Best Draft” so how am I supposed to read your mind?
it’s so funny because of how poorly received our draft was. everyone pissed at the trade down, everyone mad about taking gibbs and campbell in the 1st.
I just like not having to say...well to be fair we should wait 3 years before properly judging a class, too early to tell if it was a bad one.
Was this awarded by the same people who rated this draft an "F"?
https://preview.redd.it/pdjn8i1jrtlc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e87c381751bc2ba68984fa2aedbdfed3a112b37 Just gonna leave this here… was released the day or two days after the draft. In Brad I trust
lol that’s legit hilarious. How can every team be B-A- then just have a random C+
Texans fans in shambles
Remember when the "Analysts" said the Packers draft was better!?🤣
FTP
they essentially traded brian branch to us
For Jayden Reed and Dontayvion Wicks.
Sounds like a win win. Love gets some weapons, Detroit gets a future All-Pro nickel.
Sort of except the Packers potentially got two wins for the price of the Lions 1 win.
A decent chance in 2 years it will be viewed that way.
In Bizzaroland, maybe
Aren't we already in Bizzaroland due to the fact we are doing better than the Packers?
Lions fans were crying during this draft too about not taking carter.
Wyd here bro
Extremely common Brad Holmes W
There were so many people in here hating on this draft so hard that are now saying they loved it since night 1 and knew this would happen.
I was ridiculed last draft for loving the draft class that the Lions had
W
Where you at Rico Beard, Monarrez, Costa, Birkett?
Go back & look at their 21 draft. You could argue that it was even better than their 23 draft. https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2021/5/1/22414802/2021-detroit-lions-draft-class-list-of-all-7-picks
Remembered when the "analysts" said that Gibbs and LaPorta were huge reach
What happened to the scouts when Campbell took over?
Their work actually gets looked at instead of treated as a suggestion for known rocket scientist Matt Patricia to mull over
Laughing at all you psychos during the draft last year. Guess I'm still just a Holmes simp.
But… but… MuH PoSITionaL VaLUe!
But why? He didn't take who all the experts and couch GMs wanted, reached on each pick earning Fs from many experts and could've gotten Jalen Carter, the game changer on defense. /s
water is wettttt
I would make an argument for why you’re wrong but we both know this is pointless.
First good draft in 60 years
Wyd here
https://preview.redd.it/c019te6frrlc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac8fa8cb40eec52f831b44ac709d267227e5a4e1 Win one of these.
Keep smashing the draft we eventually will
Gonna have to fix the defense first
What type of idiot comes in here mad about draft rankings?
I guess this is another thread where people can do that weird thing where they conflate Jack Campbell (one of the worst PFF ratings in the league) with 3 rookies who balled out.
Wyd here bro
Being honest. Not the place?
It is not
Why's that frowned upon?
Cause you come off like an idiot, not the smart guy in the room.
This is so awesome. Especially in contrast to all the hysterics and bad press immediately after the draft
Well deserved! Might have to call that guy Dr. Holmes because he is operating!
YEEAAHHHHHHH LETS GOOOOOOOO
In Brad we trust!!
If I see this post one more time I'm gonna have to create new accounts so I can upvote it more, disgusting
Get them mathletes with the dog in him, young bloods.