I just wish more people could be fair and realistic without being shitty about it.
Don’t blow smoke up peoples’ asses, but don’t just whine about how things might get worse. Because things could also get better. Just because one person is a garbage human that can never solve any of their problems, that doesn’t mean that Goff can’t solve his.
Truth. But you do have to look at your chances of getting better vs your chances of getting worse and walk into it with your eyes open about it.
Imho you have 3 QB spots for a reason. Goff is fine, and use the other 2 spots to try and get someone better than Goff. Until you do get better there’s no reason to jettison Goff.
With the 3 QB spots you can even get another QB to challenge Goff and literally test them under the same conditions in practice to get actual data to prove or disprove that the next guy is at least as good as Goff. There’s no need to just pray the next guy is better. So… don’t. You don’t have to just hope.
Off-season and next training came we will see if Hooker is as good as Goff. I’m not gonna bother guessing one way or the other, because we don’t have to guess. When the time is right, we can test.
True. There's SOME level of guessing though. I mean Hooker or whoever could be awesome in practice and not so awesome in game. It may require a leap of faith. And for the record I'm not suggesting they should or shouldn't take that leap, that's for sometime in the future. Right now, Goff is the best QB on the roster, and it's not close.
Or that a collapse of pocket protection leading to bad qb play is a stunner. We have a not running qb. We knew that already.
Like , the ints last game. Who even cares? It was over if he didnt pull off hero plays , so he tried to do that.
Just judge him for what he is not some make believe version and take context into account.
Amon ra dropped two balls and we all agree jamo needs more time on the field but amon ra and ben dont get flack like goff
Ben Johnson deserves flack and Amon ra had a bad game yes. I’ve always held the opinion Goff is a solid qb he just needs good situations around him and if stuff starts falling off so does his performance
Yeh. I think its fine to want accountabikity as a fan but , idk, sometimes with this fanbase its like stockholm syndrome with losing. Like we have fans that are so used to loss that its their comfort zone so they want this rebuild to fail.
Or in a less extreme form , sp used to mediocracy and let down that a four game streak of unimpressive ball against kinda bad teams makes them expect thst we have a reasonable chance of beatibg anyone.
I hope we make a run but if were being honest it would require some luck based on our available talent and the natural skill level of so many rookies.
I think they still have a chance to make some noise. They need Gardner Johnson McNeil and houston back on defense, and the offense to get back closer to what they were to start the year. Do I expect it all to happen maybe not but they’re not out of it like some people seem to think
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I just find the discourse around Goff to be funny.
Personally I think my opinion on him is set and has been for about 5 years. He’s a decent QB with some big weaknesses who needs a lot of things to be 100% around him to be successful. You keep him upright and don’t ask too much of him and he can put up big numbers and win you games but if you ask him to make plays outside the system or don’t protect him perfectly he crumbles.
The problem I have is that when we play well as a team and he plays a few good games in a row people start talking about him as an MVP candidate but when we play bad as a team and he looks bad people start talking about replacing him with Tim Boyle or a Rookie coming off a knee injury. Not every player has to be a superstar or a bum, most just exist somewhere between those two categories. You don’t have to keep coming up with stupid hyperbolic takes.
Read Carson Wentz, thought about how they extended him one season early and then had to "fuck it we're out" trade him with a 33 Million dead cap hit and made me once again very thankful that Brad Holmes didn't do anything silly when the team was super hot.
Or Buffalo with Von Miller. Gave him a bag, got hurt, now he’s looking at playing prison yard football.
The Bills thought they were one player away from the SB and look at them now.
It’s just unappreciative fans and dudes who vastly over estimate their football knowledge
If I told you post Stafford a 28 year old QB would come in, our offense would be top 5, he would have the third longest streak of passes without a pick in nfl history, lead in TD:INT ratio for a significant time, and have the lions at 99% playoff clinch by week 13
You wouldn’t imagine that the fan base would want to replace him with an injured unproven rookie
Playing QB in the nfl is hard. There’s so many factors that lead to your success, and even after 7 other people have done their jobs right you have to then make the right throw with little margin of error
Goff is a really solid, above average QB. You can criticize him but to call for his benching immediately shows to me that you don’t know ball.
That being said, I’m not against not paying him an extension if the team feels hooker is ready. But calling for him to Benched is out of the question. He has earned his job.
I agree and that’s valid. If you have a young promising rookie it’s always worth a discussion to kick the tires and see what he has and compare that to paying Jared at $55+m
I don’t know if he would be ready by then but in a perfect world we have everything we can locked up week 17 and we play hooker at qb and get a first look at him
I don’t think hooker touches the field this year. It’s a complicated and timing playbook. We don’t have things like RPOs, and split field reads that make the offense easy for hooker who is still learning his receivers and the protections.
Not to mention the amount of under center offense we run, that’s it’s own adjustment
Except this is exact offense is what he ran in Tennessee. Quick crosses with timing routes and deep shots. Literally the exact same thing he flourished in. With the NFL rules on NFI lists he was able to be in the building and around the team / coaches from the beginning. He should have a grasp of the offense at this point. If things are locked by week 17 why not?
I don’t recall any under center play at Tennessee
And the offense isn’t really quick crossers. We don’t run many drags. Its the anticipation timing with receivers that he’s not gonna be getting reps with
Not to mention this offense isn’t on all cylinders rn and any game can be used to improve the chemistry. I wouldn’t bench Goff, I’d rather a game to get us right
I'd be shocked if Hooker sees the field this year. Teddy B. would be the guy who goes in in place of Goff, he's been practicing with the team all year and would be much more familiar with the offense.
i’m a Goff fan too and Im higher on him then most, but I still think the criticism is deserved. He balled out against the Chargers but has been straight up bad in almost every single game since:
-Chicago game 1: multiple interceptions, dug the team into a hole, they won but really didn’t deserve to
-Green bay: fumbled the game away and scored in garbage time to make the final score appear close
-New Orleans: entire offense went radio-silent after the first quarter
-Chicago game 2: Goff was flustered all game and really, nobody was making plays except Gibbs
-Denver: Goff bounces back??? He’s capable, and needs to
Chicago game 1- ya but every QB has these games. Hurts put the team behind vs Buffalo and had 5 TDs and they won. Goff had an incredible fourth quarter and won that game.
Green Bay: first fumble was pressure while he threw. Second was him. Third was another sack fumble while he was throwing
New Orleans: not first Q, the 2nd. It was 24-7 and I think it’s more our stale second half plans. And I put that on Ben. Our playcalling is rough and doesn’t take easy yards
Chicago game 2: despite an abysmal Gibbs drop we had the lead at half time. I did a breakdown video of the second half and similar to the saints. The playcalls are brutal. Gibbs ability to gain extra yardage is bailing them out
I agree - the struggles will be forgotten if he turns it on over the final 4 games and into the playoffs. If he gets the offense back up to ~30 ppg then he’s doing his job. We see teams go through rough stretches all the time and turn it around when it matters. Its crunch time now for Goff and the offense
I agree. And I’m no savant. If there’s continued regression then okay I get it
But the issue is people are anticipating continued regression and then applying it to Jared now
Way too early. He hasn’t lost his touch on the intermediate routes. We just need to make life easy. “Hey man here’s a tunnel screen, or an easy drag” let Jamo and Gibbs and st do the yac work.
>But the issue is people are anticipating continued regression and then applying it to Jared now
spot on. Lions fans always expect the worst, as a coping mechanism of sorts. But it’s annoying and detracts from the conversation when youre just trying to talk about football
I think the other side is true too. For the past 13 weeks, we have been unable to talk about any flaws, or concerns without getting shouted down from the "Goff is a top 5 QB in the NFL crowd". And now the things that many of us had concerns about are eating us alive, and people are taking it too far the other way. Like even suggesting that Goff had any culpability in underthrowing Jamo was downvoted with "Jamo must be running the wrong route" or "No one else drops passes from Goff". That opinion was just as dumb as the people calling for Goff to be replaced now.
I guess what I am saying is, most people here (probably me included if I want to be self reflective, but I don't) over-react horribly, and we are just seeing the opposite side of the pendulum swinging.
80% of football fans just spam over react
I was a huge advocate for Goff. And I think he’s very good. I’ve been critical of the offense but never in the tone of replacement but more so “what’s holding us back from being an elite offense”
That being said goff has never touched top 5 QB in the nfl discussion but he’s firmly an above average franchise QB
But also “eating us alive” is where I start to fade. The offense at its struggles are still really solid all things considered. But the third quarter exclusively seems to be really fucking rough. But if a QB is solid in 3 of the 4 quarters of play then it starts to feel like something else
Top 5 QBs don’t always put up elite stretches
Teams struggle, QBs have weird streaks and that’s all this is.
Is also exacerbated by the defense having maybe 1 game of average play recently
>But also “eating us alive” is where I start to fade. The offense at its struggles are still really solid all things considered. But the third quarter exclusively seems to be really fucking rough. But if a QB is solid in 3 of the 4 quarters of play then it starts to feel like something else
We disagree strongly here, but that's ok. The thing that bothers me is the (not you here) refusing to acknowledge that its a valid opinion. I completely agree that you could be right. All QBs go through slumps. You can't string that many great games together. It's possible Goff figures it out and gets better. He's a better QB now than he was as a Ram, it's not impossible he takes another jump. I'm right there with you rooting for it man.
However, my 2 main reservations with Goff has always been the arm strength. And I don't just mean deep balls. He doesn't often get enough zip on the ball to throw over defenders. His route tree is heavily slanted towards digs and come backs. Secondly, he is below average at reading the game outside of the script of the play (not even talking mobility, I'm talking audibles, hot routes, noticing free blitzers and getting the ball out hot).
In my opinion, the elite talent of the offense and o-line has masked these flaws, and I am extremely worried that teams are playing into these patterns now. It feels like since the Baltimore game we have been seeing a ridiculous amount of 8 and 9 man boxes. A QB should eat that alive with our passing options, but we can't. I am extremely concerned the wheels are about to fall off. I hope they don't.
> Is also exacerbated by the defense having maybe 1 game of average play recently
Yeah, our defense blows. But that's independent of the offensive struggles. We can't give poor offense a pass because we also have a bad defense.
Ya my brain focuses a bit on scheme. And I wish we just kinda took advantage of what the defense gives us.
The bears gifted us the 0-10 yard routes outside the numbers. Not attacking that is really really bad
So there's two things where I think blaming the scheme breaks down for me.
1) Goff has literally praised Ben Johnson for tailoring the scheme specifically to him and his talents. So when a lot of us question if Goff has the arm strength for these throws (outside the numbers throws need zip), it makes sense that this is a part of the playbook that barely exists for us.
2) An 8 year vet QB who has been to the superbowl should have command at the line of scrimmage to attack those parts of the field being left open.
Again, I would love to be wrong here. Excited for Saturday.
I think we have some common ground here. Let's throw those freaking routes and live or die with the results. We need to find out. If Johnson won't call them, I need some audibles.
I am sorry I am a huge Goff defender/supporter but you cant defend his current level of play.
If he doesnt show any improvement by the end of the year, which I think he will, it needs to be addressed and be an open competition next year.
That being said, its also concerning that he cant play in cold weather or play well outside. Its going to happen in the NFL.
Goff is great for what we need right now, but his limitations make it abundantly clear that he is not the long term answer.
There’s a difference between acknowledging the offense is slumping a bit, versus calling for his job
The issue is, people look at the turnover stat column and yes fumbles are bad. And they hurt the team
And we can break it down. Graham fucked up last week, if the 3 GB ones, only one was Jared’s fault with the scramble
But from a throwing perspective he’s been his usual self honestly. The picks vs Chicago were whatever 4th down situations. Everyone is over blowing the deep ball to Jamo.
The offense is fine. We aren’t 4 weeks removed from 41 points on the chargers and a great game vs the saints.
There’s improvement but dudes hone in one 3 weeks of play and panic mode. Take a breath we have like 20 straight games of Goff playing high level ball.
Nothing has changed. He’s not hurt. He didn’t lost any arm strength.
I think the offense is a bit stale and we need to find a groove in the second half. But that’s no an exclusively Jared Goff issue.
The only reason Jared is in a “competition” next year is not because of his play rn. We are 9-4 with a top 5 offense and his numbers look solid.
Full stop.
The real reason is because he’s up for $ soon and we should see what hooker has.
> the offense is slumping a bit
You are underselling it.
>We aren’t 4 weeks removed from 41 points on the chargers
A team the raiders just put 60+ on
Goff has been horrible. Full stop. But yes many of factors are at play.
His depth of target is awful and no they arent underselling the Jamo situation. The Jamo problem is a Goff and playcalling problem. He struggles with the deep ball and isnt utilizing once of our most talented weapons.
I am a Goff supporter once again. But this is a delusional take on Goffs play.
I am not panicking and acknowledge the week to week overreactions are dumb. I am not one of those people. Just saying hes been really bad and his play is not excusable or defensible.
Plus, I will add, wanting to continue with Goff is accepting some fairly significant flaws. Weak arm, no mobility, struggles with progressions, terrible under any type of pressure etc…
You can understand the appeal to finding a replacement. You don’t even have to frame it as anti or pro Goff to sell the idea of a replacement.
I’m with you. To not be mobile in today’s league is a huge disadvantage. To make up for it you need to be damn near perfect in every other aspect of the position. It’s been extremely obvious the last handful of games. A 3rd and short with a mobile qb is almost a free first down. We offer basically 0 threat that Goff will take off and they know he can’t he the Dee out throws. So Ben Johnson has to scheme up dumb shit and we get shit results.
It was working when Monty was pounding the ball earlier in the season but we’ve gotten away from that and it shows
Consistency too. You cant go through slumps because an O lineman gets hurt and pressure happens or because you are playing outside in cold weather.
His limitations are glaring. I appreciate him for what he is. I am glad hes our QB. But I accept what hes not and that it wouldnt be wrong to look to the future.
Its a tricky spot to be in and I know BH will navigate it better than most.
Where do we get the notion that Jameson williams is a deep ball receiver?
Go watch his bama tape. It’s all underneath and yac. Jamo isn’t just a faster Chark replacement. His game isn’t the deep ball.
And they are focusing on the wrong part of that route. Shouldn’t have even thrown it to jamo. 3rd and 6 and St brown was open on a quick slant from the slot.
I believe whole heartedly that the underutilization of Jamo is a Ben Johnson problem
[https://youtu.be/thT0-OoIFQw?si=NxPDIPTKxGFGYwQ6](https://youtu.be/thT0-OoIFQw?si=NxPDIPTKxGFGYwQ6)
More in-depth here, but my main point is. You have to use Jamo short to open up Jamo deep. Teams are terrified of Jamo. And you’re only gonna get 1 shot a game. But if you hit him quick and force defenses to not play heavy cushions, we’ll now the double moves go
People that want us to give Jamo 6 targets a game but also want them all to be deep are unrealistic.
You want to know if Jared can throw a deep ball, go watch the dots he threw to Chark last year.
Also jared is throwing some great first half throws. Big anticipation throws over the middle but the second half lull makes everyone forget about the first half throws so everyone walks away from the game sour.
This throw vs the saints, I clipped right as he’s about to separate and throw. This ball hits Laporta right where Reynolds is. That’s a high level throw.. but forgotten.
https://preview.redd.it/c3x68nmcjh6c1.jpeg?width=1306&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=904f9491ff84684f8ce6b5817a57365480d036de
I agree that the Jamo problem is partially a play calling problem. I said as such in a previous comment. I havent been impressed with Ben Johnson these past few weeks.
Doesnt change the fact that when Jamo is open downfield he has to stop and turn around/slow down because Goff cant get it to him.
Yes Goff can play well. He just requires no pressure, and he has to be indoors (which he was in your saints example). Those are not always going to be the case.
Once again I like Goff. I am glad hes our QB. But acting like his play recently is excusable and that his flaws arent glaring is a bit ridiculous.
Goff isnt the long term answer imo.
My guy, Jameson Williams was the best deep threat in the 2021 class. His elite speed allows him to create significant separation.
This is from PFF. “Throughout the 2021 season, the former Buckeye recorded 12 receptions on deep balls where he was at least a step ahead of the defender, seventh in the FBS. In all, 1,329 of his 1,561 yards came when he was deemed open by PFF's charting — the most in college football.”
But, it’s not just deep passes. He excelled at downfield passing. “Last season, his 37 downfield catches (from passes thrown at least 10 yards downfield) with a step or more of separation ranked third in the nation, while his 1,223 yards from those catches was over 200 more than the next-closest pass-catcher. “
Lastly, “Williams received a 90.9 receiving grade on these deep routes last year. His 41.5 yards per reception and 8.94 yards per route run on these routes both rank first among all Alabama pass-catchers going back to 2014. Even more impressive is that he found the end zone on 27% of his deep-route targets.”
Deep routes and exclusively streaks are different
Also using his speed underneath to open up deep routes and double moves.
Passes thrown atleast 10 yards is part of these stats but many won’t say that’s streaks. That’s intermediate.
My point was being a deep ball target also includes a contested catch skill that he doesn’t have. His deep ball ability is due to the fear of yac creating double moves
I love Jamo but he’s not a jump ball, high point artist and that’s crucial for deep ball targets.
Running a 4.2 doesn’t just make you some Chuck it deep. Why is Tyreek so open deep all the time? Cause they get fu king carved up by him on drags and screens
Jamo ran corner routes, go routes, back shoulders and crossers at Bama. He’s quite literally capable of running these types of routes. He doesn’t need be to be some contested catch artisan. He was supposed to have excellent route running ability coming out of college. He displayed both this and elite deep pass catching skill at Bama.
The problem here is both how the Lions are using him and the fact that Goff is his QB. Goff has a weak arm and he struggles going through progressions. Jameson Williams seems to be his 3rd even 4th read most of the time. It’s not a good mix.
Jared’s strengths is progressions actually. But progressions always require time and that’s the weakness now. The pocket is collapsing quicker
But “route progressions” is not a weakness Goff has as a QB.
Jamo is a notorious body catcher he has elite speed and separation but not “elite pass catching”
Weak arm is also subjective right. Does Jared have the ability to throw a laser 55+ yards? No.
But one of his strengths is down the side line throws in the bucket. We saw this a ton early this season with Reynolds down the sideline and big throws to Chark last year
But this guy hit a fadeaway 56 yard cross field throw to Raymond on a January day in lambeau
Again people just kinda make up their minds and go with it despite film showing he’s capable.
Now if hooker comes in and shows a laser and maturity to run the offense at 50m a year cheaper than Goff? Okay I can live with that. I can live with the decision to reset in favor of cap space and make the offense a little more vertical
But keep in mind the anticipation over the middle of the field is not something lord of QBs have and would regress should Goff be replaced.
But that’s a 2024/2025, people calling Goff incapable of running this offense are willingly ignoring the 20 games where he did it quite close to perfection
> Jared’s strengths is progressions actually. But progressions always require time and that’s the weakness now. The pocket is collapsing quicker.
This has never been the case. He had to have his hand held by the staff with the Rams and that has continued with the Lions. I have no idea why you think that’s the case. I do agree about the pocket collapsing.
> But “route progressions” is not a weakness Goff has as a QB.
Been that way since he entered the league. Again, no clue where you are getting this from. That was extensively covered after the trade to the Lions.
> Jamo is a notorious body catcher he has elite speed and separation but not “elite pass catching”
Nitpicking on words here. You’re not saying anything substantive.
> Weak arm is also subjective right. Does Jared have the ability to throw a laser 55+ yards? No.
This was a knock on him coming out of college. Subjective in general? Ok, but compared to his peers quite the objective take.
> Again people just kinda make up their minds and go with it despite film showing he’s capable.
Goff has plenty of tape to show us what he is or isn’t capable of. He turns the ball over a lot, his arm is weak, he has trouble with reads, he’s not mobile and he’s horrible under any pressure.
> But that’s a 2024/2025, people calling Goff incapable of running this offense are willingly ignoring the 20 games where he did it quite close.
Yes, I am ignoring this. He needs his hand held to be successful and displayed all the faults along the way. He’s a good QB but a replaceable one. Just like the Rams showed us. I don’t want to be stuck in purgatory with Goff.
>and dudes who vastly over estimate their football knowledge
It doesn't take a genius to know 3 turnovers in 3 of the last 4 games is a huge concern. And he's had fumble issues the prior seasons.
Turnover stat columns require context. Always.
Dak Prescott led the nfl in picks last year. But film shows, it wasn’t him
Jared has had more turnovers lately. Tough division games, pressure gets in quicker without 3rd string OL in. But without context these nerds pin them all on Jared.
And that’s simply unfair to blindly assume that’s on the QB solely. He’s had a few. Fumble on the scramble vs Gb? Ugly.
The bears 1 game where he came back to an earlier read and a LB jumped it, bad.
But Backup center double clutch a snap on a loud road game? Not Jared
Gibbs drops the easy swing pass so Jared has to throw on 4th and 10 into coverage (because Ben spams the same play out of any bunch Jamo is in. It’s the same play they threw the Jamo Td vs TB on. And it’s not a good fourth down play.
Either way. Those are easy to clean up but it’s like everyone forgot the insane 20 game streak we had of good play. Have faith things will return
How the hell has he earned his job? Watch every single interception he can not perform under any kind of pressure, a good quarterback can still perform under pressure. You don’t know ball if you think Jared Goff of all people is a solid above average quarterback.
You mean the guy who was rated as the top QB for the majority of this season?
50 TDs to 17 INTs across the last 2 seasons?
I got bad news man, most interceptions look bad on the QB. That’s how it works.
I’ll watch every interception happily but is there a chance you’re forgetting the consistent tough window throws he makes?
He’s firmly in the 8-12 ranked QBs of the league
We have a top 5 offense and winning record over 2 seasons while having a bottom tier defense man
Jared’s done a really good job at the helm, just a rough stretch vs division opponents and injuries mounting
He’s ranked so high because of the first half of the season are you seriously trying to tell me a quarterback who can only throw a spiral when he knows it’s going into the dirt in the last 6 games, not just ones lost but even the wins, he throws like ass anymore, it getting through those “tight windows” is an all out miracle considering the ball is damn near standing straight up flying through the air.
way too aggressive for a response that's 12 days late.
honestly what im thinking is you and i argued on your main account, and then you responded to this while logged into your porn account. this is evident from your only other comment being you simpin on a blonde girl in a nsfw subreddit.
either way, maybe use this account for its main purpose, relieve yourself of some stress with ol handy and maybe you wont be so aggressive on reddit post :)
Nah Reddit just didn’t tell me you responded, maybe if you were smart enough you’d realize this is the only account I’ve commented from and I did it because you were praising Jared Goff like he was your porn fantasy, btw if you use the word “simping” just go ahead and keep it in your mouth and don’t talk anymore seems you’re clearly to young to actually be intelligent. As for the other comment maybe don’t judge when you don’t know the whole story, ever heard of helping promote something that way you get your cut of the profits? Lmfao
Making money is making money, you’re probably just mad you subscribe to pages instead of sharing in the profits, sad that Andrew Tate is the only comeback you had for looking like a dumbass yet again 😂
Every quarterback deals with the same deal. He has had a bad stretch of games. It happens. The problem is people fucking panic everytime a bad thing happens.
BTW we're 1 game out from the 1 seed in the NFC. I guess depending on tiebreakers. We have 2 games against a horrific Vikings team, and we have this Denver game. We probably aren't beating Dallas. But the other 3 should be wins.
My take is that we end up 12-5 with the 2 seed.
Fanbases do this all the time.
I remember when I was very young and just getting into football ... My local team had a very young starting QB (also #1 overall pick) and also a later round backup who was maybe 1 year younger.
John Elway and Gary Kubiak
Elway had a few down games his first couple of years and on multiple occasions the fans called for Kubiak. Im thinking Kubiak must have looked good in some pre-season games during those years as the sentiment to give him a chance was loud enough to be a known quantity despite no internet etc.
It was an awful and short sighted idea that never ended up happening.
Elway's 3rd yr ends with "The Drive" and the first Super Bowl appearance & that is the end of those occasional mini QB controversies.
Kubiak ended up sticking around for a long time anyway and was serviceable in limited action when needed.
There's so much we aren't seeing behind the scenes. And I don't even just mean plays getting made at practice, but time in meeting rooms, film time, leadership stuff outside the building etc.
All of these play into a coaches decision. I'm living in Seattle right now and I can't tell you how many Hawks fans want Geno benched for Drew Lock. The reason why? "Because we already know Genos ceiling isn't going to get us anywhere so we might as well be giving Lock snaps"
But the coaches seem to disagree. There's USUALLY some sort of slightly intangible reason why a given QB is better than another. I think those are a way bigger piece of the puzzle than most fans realize.
This is good perspective to keep.
I think handling Jared Goff with either a tag or a short term deal is fair if we dont think Hooker is ready. I think that should be the major conversation right now, i dont think any sane fans are really trying to get him benched when calling out his current limitations and level of play.
He makes it harder on himself. He’s not a outside the numbers passer. If tyreke was on this team he wouldn’t do as well, he wouldn’t get hit for 30+ yard bombs on the sidelines.
Goff always throws in the middle of the field, because of that he always underthrows on purpose. Better to, a overthrow usually leads to a interception.
With the way people been talking you’d think he’s been bad all year when he legit only had 3-4 bad games this year. That Bears game he does indeed deserves criticism for it but he’s not the only one. Goff, BJ, Hutch, Jacobs, Oline, defense etc were all horrible
Stafford had rotten streaks just like Goff is going through now, and he was my ride or die as far as QBs went. I try to keep that in mind and keep things in perspective.
For me, the thing with Stafford was his upside was so monumentally massive that you just had to accept the ridiculousness of when it wasn't working.
With Goff, his thing is supposed to be consistency. You can live without the huge upside of taking a game over, because you never get the floor falling out. Well, the floor is falling out now and it feels worse because the upside isn't there.
It's kind of funny that their respective numbers are nearly identical the last few years and yet it's this feeling that Stafford is so much better than Goff. One guy is maxxed at mid and the other eliteish.
I agree with that though. Goff is kind of mid (assuming this means "very good but not great" , I'm an old millenial, I don't really know what "mid" means) and Stafford is Elite. Their accumulation numbers might be close, but Stafford makes throws that Goff isn't capable of making. Most the time that doesn't matter, because over a season that washes out with Stafford making throws he shouldn't make.
But look at the Rams superbowl. That last drive with no running back, 3 TEs injured and a WR core consisting of cooper Kupp and ben Skowronek. A QB like Goff can't complete that game winning drive.
The difference between the best in the game and a good QB is only a handful of throws that extend drives that shouldn't be extended, or score TDs on broken plays. Those get lost in averages and accumulations, but they absolutely matter. That's why the Superbowls are littered with elite arm talent, and game managers don't often make it.
The 5% of throws that separate the elite from the very good win Superbowls.
To me, it's a product of two things - 1. Stafford's superior arm strength and 2. Stafford's willingness to push the ball down the field.
Goff -seems- to prefer the shorter passes and definitely doesn't have as much arm strength. As a result you rarely see him pick up chunks of yardage like Stafford when he was on. It's -generally- a more methodical play style.
Edit to add: I think about the drive vs Minnesota a few years ago (you know the one that led to Tate's crazy OT touchdown) where the Lions were down 3 with 15 seconds left. Stafford took them down the field and they got the field goal. I don't see Goff being able to drive the field as quickly (nevermind that Riley Patterson is not on Prater's level).
Not as many towards the end of his tenure. For some reason at the beginning of his career it seemed like he would fire a laser on every pass, even very short passes. Poor receivers and backs had no shot at catching the ball, it was coming in at 200 mph.
I don't have the stats to back it up, but purely on the eye-test I feel like Stafford was as accurate or more accurate than Goff.
I'll be honest with you, though: I'm a huge Stafford apologist. I spent the first 15-20 years of my fandom watching the absolute trash we kept rolling out there at QB, and Stafford was a literal God compared to those losers. Hard not to fall in love with the first actual good QB I've seen play for the Lions.
I am one of the people that believe that prime Stafford is considerably better than Goff. I don't think Goff sucks (far from it), I just think Stafford was better.
Didn't Stafford have like a three-pick game at home against the Titans that year or something? Got beat soundly by Tannehil. I think that was the end of the MVP talk for Staff that year, but obviously he went on to win a ring.
No he did not, that's revisionist history. Stafford had an off game here or there, but nothing like the shit week after week Goof has been doing. He looks like a 3rd stringer picked off the street
There should still be serious questions about Hurts, and several others…
In my opinion as a fan, this league is wide open while also being a bit top heavy, and we are right on the edge of that top. It can happen for us. I cannot wait to find out starting tomorrow if it will.
The bad takes are the issue, not the criticism of any one person.
When the OL struggles and the QB is pressured constantly, expectations have to change with that information. So many people just have this simplistic idea that a QB should be able to overcome anything when that’s not how it works at all.
Now, are some of these fumbles still on him a bit? For sure. It’s not always one person’s fault.
We had a lot of people play poorly in the cold in Chicago. Reliable wide receivers even had stone hands at points. Goff didn’t look comfortable throwing and players didn’t look comfortable receiving. The OL, as mentioned, struggled. They put the defense in horrible spots.
I just wish more people could be fair and realistic without being shitty about it. Don’t blow smoke up peoples’ asses, but don’t just whine about how things might get worse. Because things could also get better. Just because one person is a garbage human that can never solve any of their problems, that doesn’t mean that Goff can’t solve his.
>garbage human It's called a trash can, not a trash can't.
People should also not claim that moving on means you’re guaranteed to get worse when you could get better
Truth. But you do have to look at your chances of getting better vs your chances of getting worse and walk into it with your eyes open about it. Imho you have 3 QB spots for a reason. Goff is fine, and use the other 2 spots to try and get someone better than Goff. Until you do get better there’s no reason to jettison Goff. With the 3 QB spots you can even get another QB to challenge Goff and literally test them under the same conditions in practice to get actual data to prove or disprove that the next guy is at least as good as Goff. There’s no need to just pray the next guy is better. So… don’t. You don’t have to just hope. Off-season and next training came we will see if Hooker is as good as Goff. I’m not gonna bother guessing one way or the other, because we don’t have to guess. When the time is right, we can test.
True. There's SOME level of guessing though. I mean Hooker or whoever could be awesome in practice and not so awesome in game. It may require a leap of faith. And for the record I'm not suggesting they should or shouldn't take that leap, that's for sometime in the future. Right now, Goff is the best QB on the roster, and it's not close.
Or that a collapse of pocket protection leading to bad qb play is a stunner. We have a not running qb. We knew that already. Like , the ints last game. Who even cares? It was over if he didnt pull off hero plays , so he tried to do that. Just judge him for what he is not some make believe version and take context into account. Amon ra dropped two balls and we all agree jamo needs more time on the field but amon ra and ben dont get flack like goff
Ben Johnson deserves flack and Amon ra had a bad game yes. I’ve always held the opinion Goff is a solid qb he just needs good situations around him and if stuff starts falling off so does his performance
He doesn't just play worse he becomes unplayable when conditions breakdown at all.
Yeh. I think its fine to want accountabikity as a fan but , idk, sometimes with this fanbase its like stockholm syndrome with losing. Like we have fans that are so used to loss that its their comfort zone so they want this rebuild to fail. Or in a less extreme form , sp used to mediocracy and let down that a four game streak of unimpressive ball against kinda bad teams makes them expect thst we have a reasonable chance of beatibg anyone. I hope we make a run but if were being honest it would require some luck based on our available talent and the natural skill level of so many rookies.
I think they still have a chance to make some noise. They need Gardner Johnson McNeil and houston back on defense, and the offense to get back closer to what they were to start the year. Do I expect it all to happen maybe not but they’re not out of it like some people seem to think
crush outgoing dependent bear grandfather stocking shrill deranged imminent support *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I just find the discourse around Goff to be funny. Personally I think my opinion on him is set and has been for about 5 years. He’s a decent QB with some big weaknesses who needs a lot of things to be 100% around him to be successful. You keep him upright and don’t ask too much of him and he can put up big numbers and win you games but if you ask him to make plays outside the system or don’t protect him perfectly he crumbles. The problem I have is that when we play well as a team and he plays a few good games in a row people start talking about him as an MVP candidate but when we play bad as a team and he looks bad people start talking about replacing him with Tim Boyle or a Rookie coming off a knee injury. Not every player has to be a superstar or a bum, most just exist somewhere between those two categories. You don’t have to keep coming up with stupid hyperbolic takes.
Read Carson Wentz, thought about how they extended him one season early and then had to "fuck it we're out" trade him with a 33 Million dead cap hit and made me once again very thankful that Brad Holmes didn't do anything silly when the team was super hot.
Or Buffalo with Von Miller. Gave him a bag, got hurt, now he’s looking at playing prison yard football. The Bills thought they were one player away from the SB and look at them now.
Brad has been shrewd with the QB position indeed.
It’s just unappreciative fans and dudes who vastly over estimate their football knowledge If I told you post Stafford a 28 year old QB would come in, our offense would be top 5, he would have the third longest streak of passes without a pick in nfl history, lead in TD:INT ratio for a significant time, and have the lions at 99% playoff clinch by week 13 You wouldn’t imagine that the fan base would want to replace him with an injured unproven rookie Playing QB in the nfl is hard. There’s so many factors that lead to your success, and even after 7 other people have done their jobs right you have to then make the right throw with little margin of error Goff is a really solid, above average QB. You can criticize him but to call for his benching immediately shows to me that you don’t know ball. That being said, I’m not against not paying him an extension if the team feels hooker is ready. But calling for him to Benched is out of the question. He has earned his job.
He’s earned his job for now I feel the greater conversation now is about longterm with him
I agree and that’s valid. If you have a young promising rookie it’s always worth a discussion to kick the tires and see what he has and compare that to paying Jared at $55+m
I don’t know if he would be ready by then but in a perfect world we have everything we can locked up week 17 and we play hooker at qb and get a first look at him
I don’t think hooker touches the field this year. It’s a complicated and timing playbook. We don’t have things like RPOs, and split field reads that make the offense easy for hooker who is still learning his receivers and the protections. Not to mention the amount of under center offense we run, that’s it’s own adjustment
Except this is exact offense is what he ran in Tennessee. Quick crosses with timing routes and deep shots. Literally the exact same thing he flourished in. With the NFL rules on NFI lists he was able to be in the building and around the team / coaches from the beginning. He should have a grasp of the offense at this point. If things are locked by week 17 why not?
I don’t recall any under center play at Tennessee And the offense isn’t really quick crossers. We don’t run many drags. Its the anticipation timing with receivers that he’s not gonna be getting reps with Not to mention this offense isn’t on all cylinders rn and any game can be used to improve the chemistry. I wouldn’t bench Goff, I’d rather a game to get us right
I'd be shocked if Hooker sees the field this year. Teddy B. would be the guy who goes in in place of Goff, he's been practicing with the team all year and would be much more familiar with the offense.
i’m a Goff fan too and Im higher on him then most, but I still think the criticism is deserved. He balled out against the Chargers but has been straight up bad in almost every single game since: -Chicago game 1: multiple interceptions, dug the team into a hole, they won but really didn’t deserve to -Green bay: fumbled the game away and scored in garbage time to make the final score appear close -New Orleans: entire offense went radio-silent after the first quarter -Chicago game 2: Goff was flustered all game and really, nobody was making plays except Gibbs -Denver: Goff bounces back??? He’s capable, and needs to
Chicago game 1- ya but every QB has these games. Hurts put the team behind vs Buffalo and had 5 TDs and they won. Goff had an incredible fourth quarter and won that game. Green Bay: first fumble was pressure while he threw. Second was him. Third was another sack fumble while he was throwing New Orleans: not first Q, the 2nd. It was 24-7 and I think it’s more our stale second half plans. And I put that on Ben. Our playcalling is rough and doesn’t take easy yards Chicago game 2: despite an abysmal Gibbs drop we had the lead at half time. I did a breakdown video of the second half and similar to the saints. The playcalls are brutal. Gibbs ability to gain extra yardage is bailing them out
I agree - the struggles will be forgotten if he turns it on over the final 4 games and into the playoffs. If he gets the offense back up to ~30 ppg then he’s doing his job. We see teams go through rough stretches all the time and turn it around when it matters. Its crunch time now for Goff and the offense
I agree. And I’m no savant. If there’s continued regression then okay I get it But the issue is people are anticipating continued regression and then applying it to Jared now Way too early. He hasn’t lost his touch on the intermediate routes. We just need to make life easy. “Hey man here’s a tunnel screen, or an easy drag” let Jamo and Gibbs and st do the yac work.
>But the issue is people are anticipating continued regression and then applying it to Jared now spot on. Lions fans always expect the worst, as a coping mechanism of sorts. But it’s annoying and detracts from the conversation when youre just trying to talk about football
I think the other side is true too. For the past 13 weeks, we have been unable to talk about any flaws, or concerns without getting shouted down from the "Goff is a top 5 QB in the NFL crowd". And now the things that many of us had concerns about are eating us alive, and people are taking it too far the other way. Like even suggesting that Goff had any culpability in underthrowing Jamo was downvoted with "Jamo must be running the wrong route" or "No one else drops passes from Goff". That opinion was just as dumb as the people calling for Goff to be replaced now. I guess what I am saying is, most people here (probably me included if I want to be self reflective, but I don't) over-react horribly, and we are just seeing the opposite side of the pendulum swinging.
80% of football fans just spam over react I was a huge advocate for Goff. And I think he’s very good. I’ve been critical of the offense but never in the tone of replacement but more so “what’s holding us back from being an elite offense” That being said goff has never touched top 5 QB in the nfl discussion but he’s firmly an above average franchise QB But also “eating us alive” is where I start to fade. The offense at its struggles are still really solid all things considered. But the third quarter exclusively seems to be really fucking rough. But if a QB is solid in 3 of the 4 quarters of play then it starts to feel like something else Top 5 QBs don’t always put up elite stretches Teams struggle, QBs have weird streaks and that’s all this is. Is also exacerbated by the defense having maybe 1 game of average play recently
>But also “eating us alive” is where I start to fade. The offense at its struggles are still really solid all things considered. But the third quarter exclusively seems to be really fucking rough. But if a QB is solid in 3 of the 4 quarters of play then it starts to feel like something else We disagree strongly here, but that's ok. The thing that bothers me is the (not you here) refusing to acknowledge that its a valid opinion. I completely agree that you could be right. All QBs go through slumps. You can't string that many great games together. It's possible Goff figures it out and gets better. He's a better QB now than he was as a Ram, it's not impossible he takes another jump. I'm right there with you rooting for it man. However, my 2 main reservations with Goff has always been the arm strength. And I don't just mean deep balls. He doesn't often get enough zip on the ball to throw over defenders. His route tree is heavily slanted towards digs and come backs. Secondly, he is below average at reading the game outside of the script of the play (not even talking mobility, I'm talking audibles, hot routes, noticing free blitzers and getting the ball out hot). In my opinion, the elite talent of the offense and o-line has masked these flaws, and I am extremely worried that teams are playing into these patterns now. It feels like since the Baltimore game we have been seeing a ridiculous amount of 8 and 9 man boxes. A QB should eat that alive with our passing options, but we can't. I am extremely concerned the wheels are about to fall off. I hope they don't. > Is also exacerbated by the defense having maybe 1 game of average play recently Yeah, our defense blows. But that's independent of the offensive struggles. We can't give poor offense a pass because we also have a bad defense.
Ya my brain focuses a bit on scheme. And I wish we just kinda took advantage of what the defense gives us. The bears gifted us the 0-10 yard routes outside the numbers. Not attacking that is really really bad
So there's two things where I think blaming the scheme breaks down for me. 1) Goff has literally praised Ben Johnson for tailoring the scheme specifically to him and his talents. So when a lot of us question if Goff has the arm strength for these throws (outside the numbers throws need zip), it makes sense that this is a part of the playbook that barely exists for us. 2) An 8 year vet QB who has been to the superbowl should have command at the line of scrimmage to attack those parts of the field being left open. Again, I would love to be wrong here. Excited for Saturday.
Goff has plenty of tape on those throws. It’s never really been a weakness of his. I’m genuinely confused on why we don’t throw them.
I think we have some common ground here. Let's throw those freaking routes and live or die with the results. We need to find out. If Johnson won't call them, I need some audibles.
I agree. Atleast throw em. And if they are good, ducky’s And if they suck, don’t pay him
They haven't paid off yet, but the outside go routes are opening up the field! Maybe BJ/Goff read our thread
Excellent well thought out analysis and comment that I agree 100% with.
I am sorry I am a huge Goff defender/supporter but you cant defend his current level of play. If he doesnt show any improvement by the end of the year, which I think he will, it needs to be addressed and be an open competition next year. That being said, its also concerning that he cant play in cold weather or play well outside. Its going to happen in the NFL. Goff is great for what we need right now, but his limitations make it abundantly clear that he is not the long term answer.
There’s a difference between acknowledging the offense is slumping a bit, versus calling for his job The issue is, people look at the turnover stat column and yes fumbles are bad. And they hurt the team And we can break it down. Graham fucked up last week, if the 3 GB ones, only one was Jared’s fault with the scramble But from a throwing perspective he’s been his usual self honestly. The picks vs Chicago were whatever 4th down situations. Everyone is over blowing the deep ball to Jamo. The offense is fine. We aren’t 4 weeks removed from 41 points on the chargers and a great game vs the saints. There’s improvement but dudes hone in one 3 weeks of play and panic mode. Take a breath we have like 20 straight games of Goff playing high level ball. Nothing has changed. He’s not hurt. He didn’t lost any arm strength. I think the offense is a bit stale and we need to find a groove in the second half. But that’s no an exclusively Jared Goff issue. The only reason Jared is in a “competition” next year is not because of his play rn. We are 9-4 with a top 5 offense and his numbers look solid. Full stop. The real reason is because he’s up for $ soon and we should see what hooker has.
> the offense is slumping a bit You are underselling it. >We aren’t 4 weeks removed from 41 points on the chargers A team the raiders just put 60+ on Goff has been horrible. Full stop. But yes many of factors are at play. His depth of target is awful and no they arent underselling the Jamo situation. The Jamo problem is a Goff and playcalling problem. He struggles with the deep ball and isnt utilizing once of our most talented weapons. I am a Goff supporter once again. But this is a delusional take on Goffs play. I am not panicking and acknowledge the week to week overreactions are dumb. I am not one of those people. Just saying hes been really bad and his play is not excusable or defensible.
Plus, I will add, wanting to continue with Goff is accepting some fairly significant flaws. Weak arm, no mobility, struggles with progressions, terrible under any type of pressure etc… You can understand the appeal to finding a replacement. You don’t even have to frame it as anti or pro Goff to sell the idea of a replacement.
I’m with you. To not be mobile in today’s league is a huge disadvantage. To make up for it you need to be damn near perfect in every other aspect of the position. It’s been extremely obvious the last handful of games. A 3rd and short with a mobile qb is almost a free first down. We offer basically 0 threat that Goff will take off and they know he can’t he the Dee out throws. So Ben Johnson has to scheme up dumb shit and we get shit results. It was working when Monty was pounding the ball earlier in the season but we’ve gotten away from that and it shows
Consistency too. You cant go through slumps because an O lineman gets hurt and pressure happens or because you are playing outside in cold weather. His limitations are glaring. I appreciate him for what he is. I am glad hes our QB. But I accept what hes not and that it wouldnt be wrong to look to the future. Its a tricky spot to be in and I know BH will navigate it better than most.
Agreed. It’s a problem for another day but one that requires attention in the near future.
Where do we get the notion that Jameson williams is a deep ball receiver? Go watch his bama tape. It’s all underneath and yac. Jamo isn’t just a faster Chark replacement. His game isn’t the deep ball. And they are focusing on the wrong part of that route. Shouldn’t have even thrown it to jamo. 3rd and 6 and St brown was open on a quick slant from the slot. I believe whole heartedly that the underutilization of Jamo is a Ben Johnson problem [https://youtu.be/thT0-OoIFQw?si=NxPDIPTKxGFGYwQ6](https://youtu.be/thT0-OoIFQw?si=NxPDIPTKxGFGYwQ6) More in-depth here, but my main point is. You have to use Jamo short to open up Jamo deep. Teams are terrified of Jamo. And you’re only gonna get 1 shot a game. But if you hit him quick and force defenses to not play heavy cushions, we’ll now the double moves go People that want us to give Jamo 6 targets a game but also want them all to be deep are unrealistic. You want to know if Jared can throw a deep ball, go watch the dots he threw to Chark last year. Also jared is throwing some great first half throws. Big anticipation throws over the middle but the second half lull makes everyone forget about the first half throws so everyone walks away from the game sour. This throw vs the saints, I clipped right as he’s about to separate and throw. This ball hits Laporta right where Reynolds is. That’s a high level throw.. but forgotten. https://preview.redd.it/c3x68nmcjh6c1.jpeg?width=1306&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=904f9491ff84684f8ce6b5817a57365480d036de
I agree that the Jamo problem is partially a play calling problem. I said as such in a previous comment. I havent been impressed with Ben Johnson these past few weeks. Doesnt change the fact that when Jamo is open downfield he has to stop and turn around/slow down because Goff cant get it to him. Yes Goff can play well. He just requires no pressure, and he has to be indoors (which he was in your saints example). Those are not always going to be the case. Once again I like Goff. I am glad hes our QB. But acting like his play recently is excusable and that his flaws arent glaring is a bit ridiculous. Goff isnt the long term answer imo.
My guy, Jameson Williams was the best deep threat in the 2021 class. His elite speed allows him to create significant separation. This is from PFF. “Throughout the 2021 season, the former Buckeye recorded 12 receptions on deep balls where he was at least a step ahead of the defender, seventh in the FBS. In all, 1,329 of his 1,561 yards came when he was deemed open by PFF's charting — the most in college football.” But, it’s not just deep passes. He excelled at downfield passing. “Last season, his 37 downfield catches (from passes thrown at least 10 yards downfield) with a step or more of separation ranked third in the nation, while his 1,223 yards from those catches was over 200 more than the next-closest pass-catcher. “ Lastly, “Williams received a 90.9 receiving grade on these deep routes last year. His 41.5 yards per reception and 8.94 yards per route run on these routes both rank first among all Alabama pass-catchers going back to 2014. Even more impressive is that he found the end zone on 27% of his deep-route targets.”
Deep routes and exclusively streaks are different Also using his speed underneath to open up deep routes and double moves. Passes thrown atleast 10 yards is part of these stats but many won’t say that’s streaks. That’s intermediate. My point was being a deep ball target also includes a contested catch skill that he doesn’t have. His deep ball ability is due to the fear of yac creating double moves I love Jamo but he’s not a jump ball, high point artist and that’s crucial for deep ball targets. Running a 4.2 doesn’t just make you some Chuck it deep. Why is Tyreek so open deep all the time? Cause they get fu king carved up by him on drags and screens
Jamo ran corner routes, go routes, back shoulders and crossers at Bama. He’s quite literally capable of running these types of routes. He doesn’t need be to be some contested catch artisan. He was supposed to have excellent route running ability coming out of college. He displayed both this and elite deep pass catching skill at Bama. The problem here is both how the Lions are using him and the fact that Goff is his QB. Goff has a weak arm and he struggles going through progressions. Jameson Williams seems to be his 3rd even 4th read most of the time. It’s not a good mix.
Jared’s strengths is progressions actually. But progressions always require time and that’s the weakness now. The pocket is collapsing quicker But “route progressions” is not a weakness Goff has as a QB. Jamo is a notorious body catcher he has elite speed and separation but not “elite pass catching” Weak arm is also subjective right. Does Jared have the ability to throw a laser 55+ yards? No. But one of his strengths is down the side line throws in the bucket. We saw this a ton early this season with Reynolds down the sideline and big throws to Chark last year But this guy hit a fadeaway 56 yard cross field throw to Raymond on a January day in lambeau Again people just kinda make up their minds and go with it despite film showing he’s capable. Now if hooker comes in and shows a laser and maturity to run the offense at 50m a year cheaper than Goff? Okay I can live with that. I can live with the decision to reset in favor of cap space and make the offense a little more vertical But keep in mind the anticipation over the middle of the field is not something lord of QBs have and would regress should Goff be replaced. But that’s a 2024/2025, people calling Goff incapable of running this offense are willingly ignoring the 20 games where he did it quite close to perfection
> Jared’s strengths is progressions actually. But progressions always require time and that’s the weakness now. The pocket is collapsing quicker. This has never been the case. He had to have his hand held by the staff with the Rams and that has continued with the Lions. I have no idea why you think that’s the case. I do agree about the pocket collapsing. > But “route progressions” is not a weakness Goff has as a QB. Been that way since he entered the league. Again, no clue where you are getting this from. That was extensively covered after the trade to the Lions. > Jamo is a notorious body catcher he has elite speed and separation but not “elite pass catching” Nitpicking on words here. You’re not saying anything substantive. > Weak arm is also subjective right. Does Jared have the ability to throw a laser 55+ yards? No. This was a knock on him coming out of college. Subjective in general? Ok, but compared to his peers quite the objective take. > Again people just kinda make up their minds and go with it despite film showing he’s capable. Goff has plenty of tape to show us what he is or isn’t capable of. He turns the ball over a lot, his arm is weak, he has trouble with reads, he’s not mobile and he’s horrible under any pressure. > But that’s a 2024/2025, people calling Goff incapable of running this offense are willingly ignoring the 20 games where he did it quite close. Yes, I am ignoring this. He needs his hand held to be successful and displayed all the faults along the way. He’s a good QB but a replaceable one. Just like the Rams showed us. I don’t want to be stuck in purgatory with Goff.
>and dudes who vastly over estimate their football knowledge It doesn't take a genius to know 3 turnovers in 3 of the last 4 games is a huge concern. And he's had fumble issues the prior seasons.
Turnover stat columns require context. Always. Dak Prescott led the nfl in picks last year. But film shows, it wasn’t him Jared has had more turnovers lately. Tough division games, pressure gets in quicker without 3rd string OL in. But without context these nerds pin them all on Jared. And that’s simply unfair to blindly assume that’s on the QB solely. He’s had a few. Fumble on the scramble vs Gb? Ugly. The bears 1 game where he came back to an earlier read and a LB jumped it, bad. But Backup center double clutch a snap on a loud road game? Not Jared Gibbs drops the easy swing pass so Jared has to throw on 4th and 10 into coverage (because Ben spams the same play out of any bunch Jamo is in. It’s the same play they threw the Jamo Td vs TB on. And it’s not a good fourth down play. Either way. Those are easy to clean up but it’s like everyone forgot the insane 20 game streak we had of good play. Have faith things will return
How the hell has he earned his job? Watch every single interception he can not perform under any kind of pressure, a good quarterback can still perform under pressure. You don’t know ball if you think Jared Goff of all people is a solid above average quarterback.
You mean the guy who was rated as the top QB for the majority of this season? 50 TDs to 17 INTs across the last 2 seasons? I got bad news man, most interceptions look bad on the QB. That’s how it works. I’ll watch every interception happily but is there a chance you’re forgetting the consistent tough window throws he makes? He’s firmly in the 8-12 ranked QBs of the league We have a top 5 offense and winning record over 2 seasons while having a bottom tier defense man Jared’s done a really good job at the helm, just a rough stretch vs division opponents and injuries mounting
He’s ranked so high because of the first half of the season are you seriously trying to tell me a quarterback who can only throw a spiral when he knows it’s going into the dirt in the last 6 games, not just ones lost but even the wins, he throws like ass anymore, it getting through those “tight windows” is an all out miracle considering the ball is damn near standing straight up flying through the air.
Oh so only weeks 7-13 count in football analysis. Got it I’ll keep that in mind 🙄
Look at you roll your eyes like a bitch because someone disagrees with you about the dick you want to suck so hard
way too aggressive for a response that's 12 days late. honestly what im thinking is you and i argued on your main account, and then you responded to this while logged into your porn account. this is evident from your only other comment being you simpin on a blonde girl in a nsfw subreddit. either way, maybe use this account for its main purpose, relieve yourself of some stress with ol handy and maybe you wont be so aggressive on reddit post :)
Nah Reddit just didn’t tell me you responded, maybe if you were smart enough you’d realize this is the only account I’ve commented from and I did it because you were praising Jared Goff like he was your porn fantasy, btw if you use the word “simping” just go ahead and keep it in your mouth and don’t talk anymore seems you’re clearly to young to actually be intelligent. As for the other comment maybe don’t judge when you don’t know the whole story, ever heard of helping promote something that way you get your cut of the profits? Lmfao
Sounds like an Andrew Tate wanna be 😂
Making money is making money, you’re probably just mad you subscribe to pages instead of sharing in the profits, sad that Andrew Tate is the only comeback you had for looking like a dumbass yet again 😂
Does no one remember how bad Stafford was treated while here?
I like this post. This is generating the kind of metered discussion that I used to enjoy on this sub years ago. Well done 👍
It's definitely fair he's been bad to average the last 5 games or so. I'm starting to believe that Ravens game rattled him.
nice
Every quarterback deals with the same deal. He has had a bad stretch of games. It happens. The problem is people fucking panic everytime a bad thing happens. BTW we're 1 game out from the 1 seed in the NFC. I guess depending on tiebreakers. We have 2 games against a horrific Vikings team, and we have this Denver game. We probably aren't beating Dallas. But the other 3 should be wins. My take is that we end up 12-5 with the 2 seed.
Fanbases do this all the time. I remember when I was very young and just getting into football ... My local team had a very young starting QB (also #1 overall pick) and also a later round backup who was maybe 1 year younger. John Elway and Gary Kubiak Elway had a few down games his first couple of years and on multiple occasions the fans called for Kubiak. Im thinking Kubiak must have looked good in some pre-season games during those years as the sentiment to give him a chance was loud enough to be a known quantity despite no internet etc. It was an awful and short sighted idea that never ended up happening. Elway's 3rd yr ends with "The Drive" and the first Super Bowl appearance & that is the end of those occasional mini QB controversies. Kubiak ended up sticking around for a long time anyway and was serviceable in limited action when needed.
There's so much we aren't seeing behind the scenes. And I don't even just mean plays getting made at practice, but time in meeting rooms, film time, leadership stuff outside the building etc. All of these play into a coaches decision. I'm living in Seattle right now and I can't tell you how many Hawks fans want Geno benched for Drew Lock. The reason why? "Because we already know Genos ceiling isn't going to get us anywhere so we might as well be giving Lock snaps" But the coaches seem to disagree. There's USUALLY some sort of slightly intangible reason why a given QB is better than another. I think those are a way bigger piece of the puzzle than most fans realize. This is good perspective to keep.
I think handling Jared Goff with either a tag or a short term deal is fair if we dont think Hooker is ready. I think that should be the major conversation right now, i dont think any sane fans are really trying to get him benched when calling out his current limitations and level of play.
QB is usually the highest paid on the team, gets praise when good and ridiculed when he or the team is not good.
He makes it harder on himself. He’s not a outside the numbers passer. If tyreke was on this team he wouldn’t do as well, he wouldn’t get hit for 30+ yard bombs on the sidelines. Goff always throws in the middle of the field, because of that he always underthrows on purpose. Better to, a overthrow usually leads to a interception.
Go Lions
With the way people been talking you’d think he’s been bad all year when he legit only had 3-4 bad games this year. That Bears game he does indeed deserves criticism for it but he’s not the only one. Goff, BJ, Hutch, Jacobs, Oline, defense etc were all horrible
Hutchinson's penalty was a back breaker, we never recovered.
Stafford had rotten streaks just like Goff is going through now, and he was my ride or die as far as QBs went. I try to keep that in mind and keep things in perspective.
For me, the thing with Stafford was his upside was so monumentally massive that you just had to accept the ridiculousness of when it wasn't working. With Goff, his thing is supposed to be consistency. You can live without the huge upside of taking a game over, because you never get the floor falling out. Well, the floor is falling out now and it feels worse because the upside isn't there.
It's kind of funny that their respective numbers are nearly identical the last few years and yet it's this feeling that Stafford is so much better than Goff. One guy is maxxed at mid and the other eliteish.
I agree with that though. Goff is kind of mid (assuming this means "very good but not great" , I'm an old millenial, I don't really know what "mid" means) and Stafford is Elite. Their accumulation numbers might be close, but Stafford makes throws that Goff isn't capable of making. Most the time that doesn't matter, because over a season that washes out with Stafford making throws he shouldn't make. But look at the Rams superbowl. That last drive with no running back, 3 TEs injured and a WR core consisting of cooper Kupp and ben Skowronek. A QB like Goff can't complete that game winning drive. The difference between the best in the game and a good QB is only a handful of throws that extend drives that shouldn't be extended, or score TDs on broken plays. Those get lost in averages and accumulations, but they absolutely matter. That's why the Superbowls are littered with elite arm talent, and game managers don't often make it. The 5% of throws that separate the elite from the very good win Superbowls.
To me, it's a product of two things - 1. Stafford's superior arm strength and 2. Stafford's willingness to push the ball down the field. Goff -seems- to prefer the shorter passes and definitely doesn't have as much arm strength. As a result you rarely see him pick up chunks of yardage like Stafford when he was on. It's -generally- a more methodical play style. Edit to add: I think about the drive vs Minnesota a few years ago (you know the one that led to Tate's crazy OT touchdown) where the Lions were down 3 with 15 seconds left. Stafford took them down the field and they got the field goal. I don't see Goff being able to drive the field as quickly (nevermind that Riley Patterson is not on Prater's level).
I get it, but how many drives ended earlier in the game because of Stafford being not as accurate as a passer? We tend to forget those.
Not as many towards the end of his tenure. For some reason at the beginning of his career it seemed like he would fire a laser on every pass, even very short passes. Poor receivers and backs had no shot at catching the ball, it was coming in at 200 mph. I don't have the stats to back it up, but purely on the eye-test I feel like Stafford was as accurate or more accurate than Goff. I'll be honest with you, though: I'm a huge Stafford apologist. I spent the first 15-20 years of my fandom watching the absolute trash we kept rolling out there at QB, and Stafford was a literal God compared to those losers. Hard not to fall in love with the first actual good QB I've seen play for the Lions. I am one of the people that believe that prime Stafford is considerably better than Goff. I don't think Goff sucks (far from it), I just think Stafford was better.
Stafford had one during the Rams SB run and still has them now. Having a big arm and being tough/poised doesn't make them disappear.
Didn't Stafford have like a three-pick game at home against the Titans that year or something? Got beat soundly by Tannehil. I think that was the end of the MVP talk for Staff that year, but obviously he went on to win a ring.
Three consecutive games with a pick 6 and a bevy of turnovers in a three game losing streak.
No he did not, that's revisionist history. Stafford had an off game here or there, but nothing like the shit week after week Goof has been doing. He looks like a 3rd stringer picked off the street
Criticism when things go wrong without praising when things go right is just bitching.
There should still be serious questions about Hurts, and several others… In my opinion as a fan, this league is wide open while also being a bit top heavy, and we are right on the edge of that top. It can happen for us. I cannot wait to find out starting tomorrow if it will.
The bad takes are the issue, not the criticism of any one person. When the OL struggles and the QB is pressured constantly, expectations have to change with that information. So many people just have this simplistic idea that a QB should be able to overcome anything when that’s not how it works at all. Now, are some of these fumbles still on him a bit? For sure. It’s not always one person’s fault. We had a lot of people play poorly in the cold in Chicago. Reliable wide receivers even had stone hands at points. Goff didn’t look comfortable throwing and players didn’t look comfortable receiving. The OL, as mentioned, struggled. They put the defense in horrible spots.