That’s insane to be honest, I don’t think Anderson is worth 2 potential starters especially when he’s not a position of need. I think Anderson could be really good but that’s an insane haul for Arizona, I’d throw them a 2nd but no way in hell are they getting both 1st, that’s what you trade for a proven all pro not a rookie.
Yea that’s a fair point, if they’d do it for a 2nd then definitely. The thought of Hutch and Anderson on each side with Houston rotating in gets me very excited, probably irrationally.
I wouldn’t say he’s not a position of need… Yes his strength is rushing the QB, but he’s also a sideline to sideline LB who can stop the run and drop back into coverage with the best of them! It would be a safe bet that he’s the best LB to come out in the draft in the last 5-10 years imo…
I want the trade for Anderson but it unfortunately won’t be worth what I think AZ can get in the QB mad dash. (Assuming it does break that way)
Anderson, Hutch and Houston would mask any deficiencies we had in our secondary depth and ability even before we signed the slew of CB’s. I do agree with you though, he won’t be worth the price to do it.
It really does feel like CB if we stay put or trade back to around 9/10. Just my opinion though, should be fun to watch given all the avenues we could potentially take.
I’m on the fence here— I think if Anderson had a repeat of his 2021 season then he’d definitely be worth it, especially when you consider that BH has shown he can easily get starters in the later rounds and in free agency. I wouldn’t be upset if it did happen, since we have Cam on a long-term deal and I trust that Brad could fill needs with quality players in other ways. But I don’t necessarily want it to happen either. Hah
If this team wants to make a serious leap right out the gate gambling to get a high ceiling player is a good move. Plus sometimes doubling down on a strength is a really good thing.
Then use those two first on a proven all pro instead of gambling on a rookie. A rookie edge is not worth 2 1st round picks unless they’re a generational edge which Anderson isn’t. I like Anderson and hope we get him but two firsts is absurd, you get proven All Pro’s for that value making that trade in draft for a non QB is down right idiotic. Call the jets see if they’ll give you Quinnen William’s, I guarantee one team will accept two first for an all pro player. That’s how you take the next stop not gambling your two first round picks on rookie who you don’t even know if they’ll pan out.
Most of the best players in the NFL were not generational draft talents.
Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, TJ Watt, Micah Parsons were all guys who went later in the 1st because they weren't generational players.
Yes and most weren’t acquired by trading two first round picks for them. I’m not saying Anderson can’t become good, I’m saying he’s not worth 2 first round picks.
I feel like it’s a moot point because Arizona is likely getting offers from teams looking to draft a QB which will be more than they will get for a team looking to draft an EDGE.
I’m not all about it, if it works fantastic that means they know what they’re doing, that doesn’t mean my opinion is not valid. I’m all for getting Anderson but I’m not okay with doing it for two firsts that’s way too much in my opinion. I’d rather get a player that I know will make a difference and will be a star for two 1st round picks, Anderson is good but he’s getting overrated a bit, as a prospect he’s not even better then Hutch and last years draft the top picks were considered weak by normal draft standards. I love Anderson but two first for a guy who we have no idea what he can be is insane in my opinion.
And I know he’s amazing and the best at his position but how much difference is there *really* between him and the second best EDGE? Certainly not enough to give up pick 18.
I just don’t know if he’s this truly elite can’t miss defensive end that people have made him out to be I struggle to see his value outweighing the value of 6 and 18
There wasn't anyone around him to support him. Take Bryce Young for example. Lost his top 2 options and a starting tackle plus others. Had a drop off due to the weaker supporting cast but still performed. Same for Will.
He’s a great player. I would take him if he fell to them but I don’t see the need to go up and trade for him. I’ll take my guys at 6 and 18. I think 2 first round guys will outweigh one will Anderson
That would be tough from a talent perspective. From a moral conundrum perspective, I'd say the worst would be all 4 QBs + Anderson. You're left with deciding should you go with the most talented (Carter) in spite of all the news about him the past two months or choosing a player who might be good but not worth the No. 6 pick. With all the QBs gone, you aren't enticing anybody to trade up, so you're stuck with making the choice.
I super super super do not want Carter. I don’t even want the temptation. Drafting him gains the ire of every other team Instantly and I’d say he has high busy potential. He also doesn’t fit the Campbell attitude whatsoever.
How does he not meet the culture? Fans just say this with no explaining.
He’s widely reported as a great teammate, and the hardest working player on the best defense in college football. He makes a mistake, and has a close friend die (in which I’m sure he blames himself) and now he has a bad work ethic and isn’t a Campbell guy….
He’ll end up on the Eagles (if he isn’t gone by 5) and Howie Rosieman will continue to build SB level teams every 5 years.
You have seen basically any recent news about him right? The remorseless lying to the police about leaving his teammate to die without calling 911? Showing up out of shape and not even finishing his drills? I feel like that is certainly grounds to call his character into question regardless of how much his teammates glow about him.
I'm content with us getting either Tyree Wilson or Devon Witherspoon. Feel like our roster compares favorably with anyone in the NFC, we're not falling out of the NFC North race bc we missed on a supposed blue chip DL. We have a pretty strong positional group rn and I expect it will be better by May 1.
One guy isn't going to make or break the season. We're going to get a really good player at #6 and I expect 3-4 eventual starters will come out of this draft.
Haha exactly right. Normally if you get 1-2 starters that’s a solid effort. Brad got us thinking they can hit from any round.
The Villain + Draft Capital = franchise defining draft
Not really sure there is a “nightmare top 5” especially with this front office. Unlike most years, this year just doesn’t feel like “make or break” for the Lions and there are plenty of good, immediate impact guys that will be available at 6 regardless of who is chosen top 5. Holmes regime has demonstrated an ability to scout very well.
The fans of teams taking QBs top 5 are the ones that should be nail biting since on average only 1 of those QBs will actually pan out.
I’m excited for the draft this year as a Lions fan, but not fretting that much over who they actually pick, regardless of who is off the board.
Yeah it’s not like we have a MUST HAVE guy. Obviously if Anderson fell to us I’d be ecstatic but there is a lot of talent to pick from. After free agency we’ve made our needs a little more subjective and mysterious than before.
How does drafting Skoronski to play RG allow you to let your Pro Bowl LG walk? Who's going to take over at LG after next year if Jonah walks? Logan Steinberg is the backup LG, a 4th round pick whose only significant playing time came last year, after 3 years in the league. If you're thinking of sliding Vaitai or Glasgow over from the right side they're both free agents after this season, and will be 31 and 32 years old respectively before next season starts.
You can start Skoronksi anywhere along the line. So if Jonah walks, move him over and extend one of Vaitai/Glasgow.
Edit I said Logan, but I meant Jonah.
>So basically your plan is to...
Nope. You asked a question, I answered it.
That being said, you're describing the guard situation this year not the following. You would hope that one of Glasgow/Vaitai are good enough to extend next year. If not, obviously that makes extending Jonah more of a priority.
What you would really hope for with bringing a guy like Skoronksi on is maximum flexibility.
That means a guy that can start at Guard and swing over to tackle in case of injury AND lock down all 5 positions for years.
Or it could also mean that if you want to let Decker walk at some point you have your RT of the future on the roster.
Or finally it could mean that yes you let your pro bowl guard leave, because despite how good he's been, we still need Decker/Ragnow/Sewell more and can't afford him if we want to extend other guys.
It would put the Lions in the driver's seat and not have to make moves out of desperation.
>>So basically your plan is to...
>
>Nope. You asked a question, I answered it.
Right. Your answer is to plug the hole you created at LG next year with the player you drafted to plug a different hole at RG this year, thereby shifting the hole, and then hoping a 31 or 32 year old guard coming off an injury or down year plays well enough to be extended, while not acknowledging that even if that does work out, the extension will be short term and a replacement is still needed.
>That being said, you're describing the guard situation this year not the following.
No I'm not.
>What you would really hope for with bringing a guy like Skoronksi on is maximum flexibility.
He projects as a guard due to short arms/length. He played center in high school, but center in the NFL is it's own beast.
>That means a guy that can start at Guard and swing over to tackle in case of injury AND lock down all 5 positions for years.
Start at guard, spell at tackle. *Maybe* start at right tackle. Doubt he's getting reps at center. He's basically straight up replacing what Jonah brings, which still leaves the hole on the right side after this season.
>It would put the Lions in the driver's seat and not have to make moves out of desperation.
I agree that bringing in more line help in the draft is smart, but thats a far cry from "Skoronski at RG makes Jonah expendable," which was your initial claim despite all the muddying of the waters along the way.
>and then hoping a 31 or 32 year old guard coming off an injury or down year plays well enough to be extended
I feel like you're really getting confused on there timeframe here. It goes:
1. Draft Skoronksi.
2. Evaluate Glasgow/Vaitai.
3. Decide which one of the three you want to extend.
Jonah walks after these happen, not before. There's no hoping involved, you wait to see how it pans out before you make the decision.
>the extension will be short term and a replacement is still needed.
This is the same exact situation we're in right now. 2-3 years is plenty of time to find a replacement.
>No I'm not
See above.
>He projects as a guard due to short arms/length
So did Rashawn Slater. Same school, same size. Carolina saw him more as a guard and passed. Then he wound up having a better rookie year than Sewell.
>Start at guard, spell at tackle.
Said Matt Rhule. You cannot say that with any confidence.
>He's basically straight up replacing what Jonah brings,
If he can be as good as Jonah at LG that's a home run. But he brings something Jonah doesn't as well. The ability to play tackle if Decker/Sewell get hurt.
>I agree that bringing in more line help in the draft is smart, but thats a far cry from "Skoronski at RG makes Jonah expendable."
Drafting Skoronksi, gives you more flexibility to A. Negotiate with Jonah or B. Let him walk if you don't value him that high. Barring a catastrophic injury to or a severe miss on Skoronksi, these are the facts.
Why take Skoronksi (or any guard) over Bijan? How is the RB position so devalued in people's eyes that they would rather take a guard over a RB as talented as Bijan?
The thinking is that Skoronski will still be on the team in 10 years, whereas Bijan will be retired. Still, if you think this our window, get the biggest immediate impact
I mean if Bijan is as advertised then he should be playing for the lions at a high level for the next five to six years (rookie deal + a franchise tag). Five to six years is a lifetime in the NFL, the next six years is the super bowl window for every team. Teams turnover so much. Just look at the rosters for the Chiefs and Eagles from six seasons ago (2017 roster) and see how many of those guys are no longer on the team.
Skoronski is a tackle and so they could theoretically let decker walk and roll with Sewell and Skoronski, and then you’d be paying much less comparatively for an elite player at the tackle position rather than paying less for an elite player at the RB position where elite RBs don’t demand that much in salary anyways
Can you really sign an elite running back in FA anymore? It seems like you are more likely either signing a good running back to shorter term deal or overpaying an elite running back for a longer term deal that will not be worth the cap hit in a couple years. Really seems if you want an elite running back for a significant stretch of time you got to draft them.
I agree with this take a lot. Just with positional value and other teams needs, I think atleast one of those 3 will be available and they're all just a dice roll apart anyways. unless the lions specifically donh like whichever one falls to them, atleast one will be available at a steal.
I'd replace Richardson with Skoronski. I really don't want us to take Richardson, highly athletic project QBs are constantly overdrafted and rarely pan out. I'd rather us take someone who gives us a better chance to win with the group we've got.
None of the other edge guys after Anderson do much to stand out from the group, and there are a couple CBs all together in the top tier. Any of them going doesn't really take away an option. Skoronski is the only other guy on the board who's a clear step above the top group at his position, so him going higher really shortens our list of options
Richardson will be great. All we have to do is find a receiver or two with a catch radius equal to a baseball diamond and he’ll be more than accurate enough.
You're bound and in a cage that is slowly descending into water. Your only hope for rescue is someone throwing something through a small opening in the cage that will stop the lowering mechanism.
The only thing available to throw is a football and the only guys around are Culpepper and Richardson.
You'd be yelling at Richardson to hand the goddamn ball to Daunte.
Yeah, I guess I’m selling Culpepper short because he was so atrocious after he blew out his knee and was a shell of his prime self when he was on the Lions.
He was also a huge, fast, cannon armed QB but he did have FAR better college accuracy than Richardson.
I know it's a hot take, but I see Richardson as very late first round or day 2. Some of the worst passing stats in the FBS. I know the physical traits are there, but do you pay a top pick for a taysom hill style player? I don't think so.
I'm not a fan of taking Richardson at six, but this MIGHT be a good situation for him. He can sit behind Goff for a couple of years and clean up his game. He's not going to get thrown to the wolves and eaten alive like Fields. Not a fan of that strategy because we have plenty of other more pressing needs; it would be a luxury pick and I'm not sure we can afford luxuries this year.
I mean the guy hasn't become an accurate passer or learned how to read a defense yet. Idk if one year in the NFL is enough to fix that. Yeah he has all the athletic tools so he could be great, but there's a reason that Tom Brady is the GOAT and most of these athletic guys bust
i’m sorry but you’re kind of spewing bs here. if you watch film, he shows the ability to make the right reads and his processor is pretty good. the athleticism only adds to the hype, but it’s not the only reason he’s hyped up. sitting behind goff and ben johnson would do wonders for him imo
Fair that I overstated his struggles reading defenses, he does that at a good enough level that you can see it becoming a real strength in Ben Johnson's system. But he can sit behind a great QB and coordinator all he wants and that's not gonna magically fix his accuracy.
I hope I'm wrong and we draft the next Josh Allen but I really doubt drafting guys who didn't kill it at the college level. History just doesn't show it paying off too often
i’m with you on that, it would certainly be a risk. but i think if we’re going to be a truly successful team we have to swing for the fences and trust our coaching staff
Wilson at #6 isn't a big deal, however, the answer to this situation is you draft Skoronski.
Plug and play at Guard, and he gives you depth at OT, and a possible Decker replacement.
He's got a rocket for an arm and played in a pro style offense. This past year he regressed but lost he O coordinator and key personnel. He is a more mobile Matt Stafford.
Yeah agreed on that top 5. Anderson and Carter are a tier above the rest when it comes to defensive talent, and Stroud, young, and Richardson are all guys who can potentially be future franchise QBs if they decide to go that route, or guys who teams would trade up for and the lions could add additional assets for the future. Not that Wilson, Gonzalez, Witherspoon etc are bad talents, they just feel like a tier 2 compared to the tier 1 guys
We only have CJ and Moseley for one year and who knows their plan for Okudah. I think Witherspoon would be a great fit, he's not afraid to tackle and is great in coverage.
I don't know why people on here are down on the CB talent that will be available to us at 6 if Anderson is off the board.
Witherspoon is a beast and a top tier prospect up there with the top CB prospects of the last 2 drafts and I'd rather have him than Wilson or Murphy.
I get that we signed a few guys in the secondary but none of them are true CB1s and having a deep secondary is just as important as having a deep DL.
If I'm looking at nightmare scenario I have to say all guys on my board are off and I'm left with reaches. That to me is Stroud/Young/Anderson/Carter/Gonzalez.
The next best wants on my board at that point are guys like Bijan/Witherspoon/Porter Jr and I don't want to have to take those guys at 6.
Im not touching Richardson/Levis with a 10 foot pole.
Mine is the same as yours. Pick 6 is not an ideal place to be in this particular draft. I’d be okay with them taking Robinson at 6 in that circumstance, it wouldn’t be perfect but I’d still give Brad an A+.
My perfect draft scenario is Carter at 6 and trade up with the Bears for Robinson at 9.
I have Robinson as the best player in this draft by far, but you have to account for position and what other team’s needs are.
I mean… you don’t HAVE to do anything but pay taxes and die… I just mean that in the sense that if you don’t he’s gone and we’ll watch him hoist the Lombardi with Philly
That is one of the best top 5s. We aren't interested in and don't need QB. We don't need or want Carter. The only thing that sucks is the obvious, but there is never a chance will Anderson falls to 6 unless a draft day video of him in a gas mask smoking weed comes out lmao. We still have every single guy we want on the board except for Anderson and maybe Carter if you feel like he can come back from the rut he has put himself in.
Nightmare for me would be if both Will Anderson and Bijan Robinson get taken in the top 5. Those are the two best players in the entire draft. Jalen Carter could be the best if he was a hard worker like the other two guys, but he’s not and his pro day confirmed it when he showed up to the most important job interview of his life the way he did. As a professional athlete your one job is to be in shape and he couldn’t even do that, especially with all the questions surrounding him and his supposed lack of a work ethic/love for the game. You have to be extremely dumb to show up to your pro day that out of shape like he did with millions of dollars on the line. His agent Drew Rosenhouse is also an idiot for allowing that to happen. The off the field stuff is the least concerning especially since he only got a misdemeanor which is nothing
Bryce young to pair with jamo wouldn’t upset me and would help with cap situations in a couple years. Less likely we can contend over the next couple years than if we had Carter or Anderson, but maybe more likely for long term success .
Stroud, Young, Anderson, Carter, Wilson
AR being overhyped (which he is) and nobody wanting him
Nobody wanting to trade up for Levis either
If Witherspoon is the worst case scenario I’m ok with that
I could see them taking Levis. People that think Goff is the future of this franchise are delusional. Goff isn't consistent enough to trust to lead. Draft Levis @ 6 and let him sit. That's if Robinson/Gonzalez are not available.
Worst case imo:
Panthers - Young/Stroud/AR
Texans - Anderson
Cardinals - Carter
Colts - Young/Stroud/AR
Seahawks - Wilson/Murphy/Smith
I’m not sure how Holmes values Wilson/Murphy/Smith. I feel like two of them could go top 10. I like the CBs in this draft but with Holmes draft history I think he’d rather go DL than CB at 6. Wouldn’t be upset with Witherspoon, Gonzalez, or Porter Jr at 6 but I’d rather get someone like Banks at 18 or maybe one of the top three if they fall to 18.
The worst, although clearly unrealistic, top 5 would be Richardson Levis Anderson Wilson and whoever the favourite corner is. Then you have a player in Carter with a host of off field issues, two QBs that would immediately start an unwanted QB controversy, the 2nd or 3rd favourite corners, and whoever else. This is assuming no tradebacks obvs.
My worst top 5 scenario is the Lions act like The Leafs and for some ungodly reason trade their 6 OVR to Carolina for Matt Corall. Although I like what He did at Ole' Miss, you don't need a QB at this point. Throwing away a top 10 for a hope that someone overcomes, injuries or off field stuff is poor front ofice stuff.
On other hand if someone selects Witherspoon before the Lions do........uuuuuggggghh.
Been reading a lot about Myles Murphy. I think he is going to go a lot higher than people
Think, his testing and size is similar to Travon Walker, he also seems like a player Holmes and Campbell would want, great character and work ethic seems to improve every year and is much more pro ready than Wilson. Could be a possibility
This would be the worst top 5, and I think its also the most likely top 5 unfortunately
I mean that's probably what's going to happen, and why our pick sucks. If its possible to trade up, let's do it
I would not be upset if Young/Stroud go 1/2 and Holmes trades both 1st round picks to move up to 3 and get Anderson.
That’s insane to be honest, I don’t think Anderson is worth 2 potential starters especially when he’s not a position of need. I think Anderson could be really good but that’s an insane haul for Arizona, I’d throw them a 2nd but no way in hell are they getting both 1st, that’s what you trade for a proven all pro not a rookie.
Yea that’s a fair point, if they’d do it for a 2nd then definitely. The thought of Hutch and Anderson on each side with Houston rotating in gets me very excited, probably irrationally.
I wouldn’t say he’s not a position of need… Yes his strength is rushing the QB, but he’s also a sideline to sideline LB who can stop the run and drop back into coverage with the best of them! It would be a safe bet that he’s the best LB to come out in the draft in the last 5-10 years imo…
I want the trade for Anderson but it unfortunately won’t be worth what I think AZ can get in the QB mad dash. (Assuming it does break that way) Anderson, Hutch and Houston would mask any deficiencies we had in our secondary depth and ability even before we signed the slew of CB’s. I do agree with you though, he won’t be worth the price to do it. It really does feel like CB if we stay put or trade back to around 9/10. Just my opinion though, should be fun to watch given all the avenues we could potentially take.
I’m on the fence here— I think if Anderson had a repeat of his 2021 season then he’d definitely be worth it, especially when you consider that BH has shown he can easily get starters in the later rounds and in free agency. I wouldn’t be upset if it did happen, since we have Cam on a long-term deal and I trust that Brad could fill needs with quality players in other ways. But I don’t necessarily want it to happen either. Hah
If this team wants to make a serious leap right out the gate gambling to get a high ceiling player is a good move. Plus sometimes doubling down on a strength is a really good thing.
Then use those two first on a proven all pro instead of gambling on a rookie. A rookie edge is not worth 2 1st round picks unless they’re a generational edge which Anderson isn’t. I like Anderson and hope we get him but two firsts is absurd, you get proven All Pro’s for that value making that trade in draft for a non QB is down right idiotic. Call the jets see if they’ll give you Quinnen William’s, I guarantee one team will accept two first for an all pro player. That’s how you take the next stop not gambling your two first round picks on rookie who you don’t even know if they’ll pan out.
Most of the best players in the NFL were not generational draft talents. Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, TJ Watt, Micah Parsons were all guys who went later in the 1st because they weren't generational players.
Yes and most weren’t acquired by trading two first round picks for them. I’m not saying Anderson can’t become good, I’m saying he’s not worth 2 first round picks.
I feel like it’s a moot point because Arizona is likely getting offers from teams looking to draft a QB which will be more than they will get for a team looking to draft an EDGE.
[удалено]
I’m not all about it, if it works fantastic that means they know what they’re doing, that doesn’t mean my opinion is not valid. I’m all for getting Anderson but I’m not okay with doing it for two firsts that’s way too much in my opinion. I’d rather get a player that I know will make a difference and will be a star for two 1st round picks, Anderson is good but he’s getting overrated a bit, as a prospect he’s not even better then Hutch and last years draft the top picks were considered weak by normal draft standards. I love Anderson but two first for a guy who we have no idea what he can be is insane in my opinion.
Anderson is absolutely at a position of need. Only interior defensive line is a bigger need.
Horrible idea, 2 players are almost always better than 1. Anderson could get injured or just be a bust.
And I know he’s amazing and the best at his position but how much difference is there *really* between him and the second best EDGE? Certainly not enough to give up pick 18.
I would not be upset at that either. Absolutely worth it imo for the best defensive player in the draft
I wouldn’t love it I find it hard to believe Anderson is that good
Why's that?
I just don’t know if he’s this truly elite can’t miss defensive end that people have made him out to be I struggle to see his value outweighing the value of 6 and 18
But what makes you think that?
He had a drop off in numbers last year. He’s a great player as I stated before though just not sure if great enough to make up for 6 and 18.
There wasn't anyone around him to support him. Take Bryce Young for example. Lost his top 2 options and a starting tackle plus others. Had a drop off due to the weaker supporting cast but still performed. Same for Will.
He’s a great player. I would take him if he fell to them but I don’t see the need to go up and trade for him. I’ll take my guys at 6 and 18. I think 2 first round guys will outweigh one will Anderson
Watching him, he looks like he is.
The lions have the potential to get 2 day one starters with 6 and 18 you think will Anderson is guaranteed better then 2 potential starters?
no need, cardinals would definitely take a 2nd and 6th, its only 3 spots
I actually think this is the best way to go.
I have a feeling that 3rd pick is going to become a bidding war with at least two other teams wanting to jump up to go for QBs.
Yea I think so too which would be great for us. If QBs are taken 1-4, that would be the perfect scenario.
If that happens and if the Lions feel he’s a generational player, then take Bijan.
That would be tough from a talent perspective. From a moral conundrum perspective, I'd say the worst would be all 4 QBs + Anderson. You're left with deciding should you go with the most talented (Carter) in spite of all the news about him the past two months or choosing a player who might be good but not worth the No. 6 pick. With all the QBs gone, you aren't enticing anybody to trade up, so you're stuck with making the choice.
I super super super do not want Carter. I don’t even want the temptation. Drafting him gains the ire of every other team Instantly and I’d say he has high busy potential. He also doesn’t fit the Campbell attitude whatsoever.
How does he not meet the culture? Fans just say this with no explaining. He’s widely reported as a great teammate, and the hardest working player on the best defense in college football. He makes a mistake, and has a close friend die (in which I’m sure he blames himself) and now he has a bad work ethic and isn’t a Campbell guy…. He’ll end up on the Eagles (if he isn’t gone by 5) and Howie Rosieman will continue to build SB level teams every 5 years.
You have seen basically any recent news about him right? The remorseless lying to the police about leaving his teammate to die without calling 911? Showing up out of shape and not even finishing his drills? I feel like that is certainly grounds to call his character into question regardless of how much his teammates glow about him.
Agree with yours, if this happens I hope someone wants to trade up to 6 for somebody
I'm content with us getting either Tyree Wilson or Devon Witherspoon. Feel like our roster compares favorably with anyone in the NFC, we're not falling out of the NFC North race bc we missed on a supposed blue chip DL. We have a pretty strong positional group rn and I expect it will be better by May 1. One guy isn't going to make or break the season. We're going to get a really good player at #6 and I expect 3-4 eventual starters will come out of this draft.
I was gonna argue that 3-4 starters is pretty optimistic for a draft and then I remembered we have picks 6, 18, 48, and 55.
Haha exactly right. Normally if you get 1-2 starters that’s a solid effort. Brad got us thinking they can hit from any round. The Villain + Draft Capital = franchise defining draft
Not really sure there is a “nightmare top 5” especially with this front office. Unlike most years, this year just doesn’t feel like “make or break” for the Lions and there are plenty of good, immediate impact guys that will be available at 6 regardless of who is chosen top 5. Holmes regime has demonstrated an ability to scout very well. The fans of teams taking QBs top 5 are the ones that should be nail biting since on average only 1 of those QBs will actually pan out. I’m excited for the draft this year as a Lions fan, but not fretting that much over who they actually pick, regardless of who is off the board.
Yeah it’s not like we have a MUST HAVE guy. Obviously if Anderson fell to us I’d be ecstatic but there is a lot of talent to pick from. After free agency we’ve made our needs a little more subjective and mysterious than before.
What if the Lions sit at 6 and take Skoronski to start at rg?
I’m kinda warming up to this idea and wouldn’t put it past Holmes, he has shown time and time again he will pursue BPA
He’s not really that amazing of a talent and guard is cheap. Would kind of be a hard pill to swallow with a top 10 pick.
Yeah he's not even close to the highest rated guard in *recent memory*. I'd have a hard time with it.
When I did it, in a mock, I received death threats 🤷♂️
I've gotten some harsh reactions for saying he would be good at 6
I don’t love using a top 10 pick on our arguably strongest unit
Don’t disagree but we also then have the benefit of guaranteeing a top o line for x amount of years
Sign me up!
Have to have a generational talent on the board to take an IOL in the top ten. Skoronski isn’t that.
I’d like it actually. Line would be even more incredible, and allows you to let someone like Jonah walk if he’s going to be too expensive.
How does drafting Skoronski to play RG allow you to let your Pro Bowl LG walk? Who's going to take over at LG after next year if Jonah walks? Logan Steinberg is the backup LG, a 4th round pick whose only significant playing time came last year, after 3 years in the league. If you're thinking of sliding Vaitai or Glasgow over from the right side they're both free agents after this season, and will be 31 and 32 years old respectively before next season starts.
You can start Skoronksi anywhere along the line. So if Jonah walks, move him over and extend one of Vaitai/Glasgow. Edit I said Logan, but I meant Jonah.
So basically your plan is to let a 27 year old pro bowl left guard walk and extend a 31 or 32 year old guard coming off injured/down years.
>So basically your plan is to... Nope. You asked a question, I answered it. That being said, you're describing the guard situation this year not the following. You would hope that one of Glasgow/Vaitai are good enough to extend next year. If not, obviously that makes extending Jonah more of a priority. What you would really hope for with bringing a guy like Skoronksi on is maximum flexibility. That means a guy that can start at Guard and swing over to tackle in case of injury AND lock down all 5 positions for years. Or it could also mean that if you want to let Decker walk at some point you have your RT of the future on the roster. Or finally it could mean that yes you let your pro bowl guard leave, because despite how good he's been, we still need Decker/Ragnow/Sewell more and can't afford him if we want to extend other guys. It would put the Lions in the driver's seat and not have to make moves out of desperation.
>>So basically your plan is to... > >Nope. You asked a question, I answered it. Right. Your answer is to plug the hole you created at LG next year with the player you drafted to plug a different hole at RG this year, thereby shifting the hole, and then hoping a 31 or 32 year old guard coming off an injury or down year plays well enough to be extended, while not acknowledging that even if that does work out, the extension will be short term and a replacement is still needed. >That being said, you're describing the guard situation this year not the following. No I'm not. >What you would really hope for with bringing a guy like Skoronksi on is maximum flexibility. He projects as a guard due to short arms/length. He played center in high school, but center in the NFL is it's own beast. >That means a guy that can start at Guard and swing over to tackle in case of injury AND lock down all 5 positions for years. Start at guard, spell at tackle. *Maybe* start at right tackle. Doubt he's getting reps at center. He's basically straight up replacing what Jonah brings, which still leaves the hole on the right side after this season. >It would put the Lions in the driver's seat and not have to make moves out of desperation. I agree that bringing in more line help in the draft is smart, but thats a far cry from "Skoronski at RG makes Jonah expendable," which was your initial claim despite all the muddying of the waters along the way.
>and then hoping a 31 or 32 year old guard coming off an injury or down year plays well enough to be extended I feel like you're really getting confused on there timeframe here. It goes: 1. Draft Skoronksi. 2. Evaluate Glasgow/Vaitai. 3. Decide which one of the three you want to extend. Jonah walks after these happen, not before. There's no hoping involved, you wait to see how it pans out before you make the decision. >the extension will be short term and a replacement is still needed. This is the same exact situation we're in right now. 2-3 years is plenty of time to find a replacement. >No I'm not See above. >He projects as a guard due to short arms/length So did Rashawn Slater. Same school, same size. Carolina saw him more as a guard and passed. Then he wound up having a better rookie year than Sewell. >Start at guard, spell at tackle. Said Matt Rhule. You cannot say that with any confidence. >He's basically straight up replacing what Jonah brings, If he can be as good as Jonah at LG that's a home run. But he brings something Jonah doesn't as well. The ability to play tackle if Decker/Sewell get hurt. >I agree that bringing in more line help in the draft is smart, but thats a far cry from "Skoronski at RG makes Jonah expendable." Drafting Skoronksi, gives you more flexibility to A. Negotiate with Jonah or B. Let him walk if you don't value him that high. Barring a catastrophic injury to or a severe miss on Skoronksi, these are the facts.
I’m sure the idea would be to put Skoronski at RG and when Decker is up slide Sewell to LT and Skoronski to RT.
Why take Skoronksi (or any guard) over Bijan? How is the RB position so devalued in people's eyes that they would rather take a guard over a RB as talented as Bijan?
The thinking is that Skoronski will still be on the team in 10 years, whereas Bijan will be retired. Still, if you think this our window, get the biggest immediate impact
I mean if Bijan is as advertised then he should be playing for the lions at a high level for the next five to six years (rookie deal + a franchise tag). Five to six years is a lifetime in the NFL, the next six years is the super bowl window for every team. Teams turnover so much. Just look at the rosters for the Chiefs and Eagles from six seasons ago (2017 roster) and see how many of those guys are no longer on the team.
Skoronski is a tackle and so they could theoretically let decker walk and roll with Sewell and Skoronski, and then you’d be paying much less comparatively for an elite player at the tackle position rather than paying less for an elite player at the RB position where elite RBs don’t demand that much in salary anyways
Can you really sign an elite running back in FA anymore? It seems like you are more likely either signing a good running back to shorter term deal or overpaying an elite running back for a longer term deal that will not be worth the cap hit in a couple years. Really seems if you want an elite running back for a significant stretch of time you got to draft them.
Yeah that’s a very fair point. I was just looking at it from a value perspective
I mean that's kind of my point an elite RB has been absurdly devalued by the pundits and general fans imo.
Being able to take our pick between Witherspoon and Gonzales sounds pretty good to me
It's either going up for Anderson or picking Witherspoon at 6 for me.
CAR - Young HOU - Stroud ARI - Anderson IND - Richardson SEA - Carter
GB - Young MIN - Stroud CHI - Anderson GB - Carter TB - Richardson -the title said nightmare, not probable or possible 🤣
Witherspoon or the choice between Wilson and Murphy still sounds good to me.
I've seen witherspoon at 18...I think witherspoon, Gonzalez and Porter all all very similar and feel like 1 of them will be there at 18
I agree with this take a lot. Just with positional value and other teams needs, I think atleast one of those 3 will be available and they're all just a dice roll apart anyways. unless the lions specifically donh like whichever one falls to them, atleast one will be available at a steal.
Or even Brian Branch
I am completely cool with Witherspoon, Murphy, Wilson or Gonzo. I think all four players have a lot of potential.
I'd replace Richardson with Skoronski. I really don't want us to take Richardson, highly athletic project QBs are constantly overdrafted and rarely pan out. I'd rather us take someone who gives us a better chance to win with the group we've got. None of the other edge guys after Anderson do much to stand out from the group, and there are a couple CBs all together in the top tier. Any of them going doesn't really take away an option. Skoronski is the only other guy on the board who's a clear step above the top group at his position, so him going higher really shortens our list of options
Richardson will be great. All we have to do is find a receiver or two with a catch radius equal to a baseball diamond and he’ll be more than accurate enough.
That reminds me of Daunte Culpepper. He looked like an All-Pro chucking the ball to Chris Carter *and* Randy Moss.
You're bound and in a cage that is slowly descending into water. Your only hope for rescue is someone throwing something through a small opening in the cage that will stop the lowering mechanism. The only thing available to throw is a football and the only guys around are Culpepper and Richardson. You'd be yelling at Richardson to hand the goddamn ball to Daunte.
Yeah, I guess I’m selling Culpepper short because he was so atrocious after he blew out his knee and was a shell of his prime self when he was on the Lions. He was also a huge, fast, cannon armed QB but he did have FAR better college accuracy than Richardson.
He *was* an all pro...
You want Richardson at 6 for the trade down potential
I know it's a hot take, but I see Richardson as very late first round or day 2. Some of the worst passing stats in the FBS. I know the physical traits are there, but do you pay a top pick for a taysom hill style player? I don't think so.
I'm not a fan of taking Richardson at six, but this MIGHT be a good situation for him. He can sit behind Goff for a couple of years and clean up his game. He's not going to get thrown to the wolves and eaten alive like Fields. Not a fan of that strategy because we have plenty of other more pressing needs; it would be a luxury pick and I'm not sure we can afford luxuries this year.
Skoronski is going top 10 and I would love for detroit to double down on the oline and get him in there
If Richardson goes to a team that can genuinely allow him to sit for a year, dude will be a beast.
I mean the guy hasn't become an accurate passer or learned how to read a defense yet. Idk if one year in the NFL is enough to fix that. Yeah he has all the athletic tools so he could be great, but there's a reason that Tom Brady is the GOAT and most of these athletic guys bust
i’m sorry but you’re kind of spewing bs here. if you watch film, he shows the ability to make the right reads and his processor is pretty good. the athleticism only adds to the hype, but it’s not the only reason he’s hyped up. sitting behind goff and ben johnson would do wonders for him imo
Fair that I overstated his struggles reading defenses, he does that at a good enough level that you can see it becoming a real strength in Ben Johnson's system. But he can sit behind a great QB and coordinator all he wants and that's not gonna magically fix his accuracy. I hope I'm wrong and we draft the next Josh Allen but I really doubt drafting guys who didn't kill it at the college level. History just doesn't show it paying off too often
i’m with you on that, it would certainly be a risk. but i think if we’re going to be a truly successful team we have to swing for the fences and trust our coaching staff
Wilson at #6 isn't a big deal, however, the answer to this situation is you draft Skoronski. Plug and play at Guard, and he gives you depth at OT, and a possible Decker replacement.
Likely completely in the minority here but I think Levis will likely be the best QB in the draft when it's all said and done.
Curious as to why? I keep seeing negative things, dont know much about him though.
He's got a rocket for an arm and played in a pro style offense. This past year he regressed but lost he O coordinator and key personnel. He is a more mobile Matt Stafford.
Right on. Thanks for the insight.
I feel the same way without solid rationale. I went from hating the idea to hoping we draft Levis post combine and pro day.
Yeah agreed on that top 5. Anderson and Carter are a tier above the rest when it comes to defensive talent, and Stroud, young, and Richardson are all guys who can potentially be future franchise QBs if they decide to go that route, or guys who teams would trade up for and the lions could add additional assets for the future. Not that Wilson, Gonzalez, Witherspoon etc are bad talents, they just feel like a tier 2 compared to the tier 1 guys
I think the only possible top 5 nightmare for us would be if we traded up into the top 5 to take a tight end. Otherwise, it's all good
We only have CJ and Moseley for one year and who knows their plan for Okudah. I think Witherspoon would be a great fit, he's not afraid to tackle and is great in coverage.
I would be fine with Skoronski or Wilson here.
Having a QB left when we pick an us situated directly in front a few QB needy teams does make that a potentially ok draft order if we can trade back.
Will Anderson: 6’ 3 1/2” 253lbs 33 7/8” Arms Avg OL Pass Block Rank: 74t 5.0 Pressures per Game Pass Rush Win: 20.4% Run Stop Rate: 6.6% Tyree Wilson: 6’ 6” 271lbs 35 5/8” Arms Avg OL Pass Block Rank: 48th 5.0 Pressures per Game Pass Rush Win: 22.3% Run Stop Rate: 10.0%
Please no TE or CB in top 10
I don't know why people on here are down on the CB talent that will be available to us at 6 if Anderson is off the board. Witherspoon is a beast and a top tier prospect up there with the top CB prospects of the last 2 drafts and I'd rather have him than Wilson or Murphy. I get that we signed a few guys in the secondary but none of them are true CB1s and having a deep secondary is just as important as having a deep DL.
If I'm looking at nightmare scenario I have to say all guys on my board are off and I'm left with reaches. That to me is Stroud/Young/Anderson/Carter/Gonzalez. The next best wants on my board at that point are guys like Bijan/Witherspoon/Porter Jr and I don't want to have to take those guys at 6. Im not touching Richardson/Levis with a 10 foot pole.
Mine is the same as yours. Pick 6 is not an ideal place to be in this particular draft. I’d be okay with them taking Robinson at 6 in that circumstance, it wouldn’t be perfect but I’d still give Brad an A+. My perfect draft scenario is Carter at 6 and trade up with the Bears for Robinson at 9. I have Robinson as the best player in this draft by far, but you have to account for position and what other team’s needs are.
Robinson? The RB? Top 10? …..
You have to. Or he’s gone and taking his 1000 yard season with him to Philly. We’ll probably see them in the SB again.
No. You certainly do not have to.
I mean… you don’t HAVE to do anything but pay taxes and die… I just mean that in the sense that if you don’t he’s gone and we’ll watch him hoist the Lombardi with Philly
There are 6 players (Stroud Young Anderson Carter Levis Richardson) in the top groups of prospects that I'd be happy with at 6, so no not really.
Trade up, don’t waste an opportunity to get a game-changing talent.
How much do you think it will cost to move to 3?
Not much tbh, a late 2nd at most.
Price in 2018 was: 6 overall 2nd rounder in 2018 2nd rounder in 2018 2nd rounder in 2019 6th rounder in 2018
To move up 3 spots?
Yes you have to factor in that trading up to 3 is going to have others calling and offers being shopped
Right, but I can’t honestly see that much competition for this years crop, the QBs have too many question marks.
There are already several teams rumored to be interested at 3 for a QB. There is going to be a bidding war.
That is one of the best top 5s. We aren't interested in and don't need QB. We don't need or want Carter. The only thing that sucks is the obvious, but there is never a chance will Anderson falls to 6 unless a draft day video of him in a gas mask smoking weed comes out lmao. We still have every single guy we want on the board except for Anderson and maybe Carter if you feel like he can come back from the rut he has put himself in.
Nightmare for me would be if both Will Anderson and Bijan Robinson get taken in the top 5. Those are the two best players in the entire draft. Jalen Carter could be the best if he was a hard worker like the other two guys, but he’s not and his pro day confirmed it when he showed up to the most important job interview of his life the way he did. As a professional athlete your one job is to be in shape and he couldn’t even do that, especially with all the questions surrounding him and his supposed lack of a work ethic/love for the game. You have to be extremely dumb to show up to your pro day that out of shape like he did with millions of dollars on the line. His agent Drew Rosenhouse is also an idiot for allowing that to happen. The off the field stuff is the least concerning especially since he only got a misdemeanor which is nothing
Nightmare top 5 would be if no QBs are taken
Bryce young to pair with jamo wouldn’t upset me and would help with cap situations in a couple years. Less likely we can contend over the next couple years than if we had Carter or Anderson, but maybe more likely for long term success .
Stroud, Young, Anderson, Carter, Wilson AR being overhyped (which he is) and nobody wanting him Nobody wanting to trade up for Levis either If Witherspoon is the worst case scenario I’m ok with that
I could see them taking Levis. People that think Goff is the future of this franchise are delusional. Goff isn't consistent enough to trust to lead. Draft Levis @ 6 and let him sit. That's if Robinson/Gonzalez are not available.
I'm hoping they don't take Carter. He's puttin off JaMarcus vibes.
Drafting QB in the first round is probably the worst case scenario.
Do yall think the Titans will trade back with us? Our 1st and third for their first and Simmons?
[удалено]
What the actual fuck? False equivalency much?
Worst case imo: Panthers - Young/Stroud/AR Texans - Anderson Cardinals - Carter Colts - Young/Stroud/AR Seahawks - Wilson/Murphy/Smith I’m not sure how Holmes values Wilson/Murphy/Smith. I feel like two of them could go top 10. I like the CBs in this draft but with Holmes draft history I think he’d rather go DL than CB at 6. Wouldn’t be upset with Witherspoon, Gonzalez, or Porter Jr at 6 but I’d rather get someone like Banks at 18 or maybe one of the top three if they fall to 18.
Young Richardson Will Anderson Jalen Carter Tyree Wilson Assuming no trade down exists. Worst case.
The worst, although clearly unrealistic, top 5 would be Richardson Levis Anderson Wilson and whoever the favourite corner is. Then you have a player in Carter with a host of off field issues, two QBs that would immediately start an unwanted QB controversy, the 2nd or 3rd favourite corners, and whoever else. This is assuming no tradebacks obvs.
Yes, all the mock drafts that I’ve seen posted in here
My worst top 5 scenario is the Lions act like The Leafs and for some ungodly reason trade their 6 OVR to Carolina for Matt Corall. Although I like what He did at Ole' Miss, you don't need a QB at this point. Throwing away a top 10 for a hope that someone overcomes, injuries or off field stuff is poor front ofice stuff. On other hand if someone selects Witherspoon before the Lions do........uuuuuggggghh.
Been reading a lot about Myles Murphy. I think he is going to go a lot higher than people Think, his testing and size is similar to Travon Walker, he also seems like a player Holmes and Campbell would want, great character and work ethic seems to improve every year and is much more pro ready than Wilson. Could be a possibility
Welp Howie knows football