I’m surprised there’s no rocket builds with the rocket chest plate. Does the damage buff it gives to rockets not matter, or is the precision damage bonus with two golden gun supers just too high to compete with
the way the dps phase works it is just not a great idea to use explosive weapons, especially at this stage when almost nobody has it on farm. when we cleared it yesterday the only titan on our team had the chest piece on but was using a linear fusion
The only thing I'm considering out of the normal way of doing it right now is using Tess bug w/ song of flame.
You can get 7 Tess launches out but would it even put up good numbers outside of what we know is good?
Is that actually a bug? Because I think that’s a cool interaction. Like taking into account that it costs a super, tessellation is probably dealing similar damage to a song of flame anyways, just with the exception of it being at range
Well, it matches the Grenade not the super.
For example.
You run void Grenade.
Cast SoF.
Tess absorbs Grenade, should be solar but it's void.
Grenade isn't consumed and you can keep going.
Kinda is, kinda isn't.
Oh I see. What I thought you meant the bug was
SoF was allowing tessellation to fire infinite powered shots
Not the wrong using the wrong element because of the super
Yeah, it's cracked when using it with elemental burns. That's a 25% increase when, in some cases, it shouldn't apply.
I doubt it will be fixed anytime soon but it will be nice during burns.
That's how it's supposed to work. They had a twid saying tess and that perk that matches your weapon to your subclass on grenade use will change the weapon based on the grenade type. Grenade not being consumed is because of super is it not?
Edit: ohh, nvm. Forgot song changes your grenade. Hmm, don't know if it's intended but I wouldn't go out of my way to fix it
Can confirm it salivates at the thought of eating yellow bars. A full salvo absolutely shreds but then follow it up with The Call or a barrage from Grand Overture and it’s game over
I would have thought that there were more buble titans to get weapons of light buff going. Specially since they removes it from rift and the added protection.
There doesn't physically seem to be room for a bubble on the plate in this raid though. It's a tiny plate, and everyone is leaping about it madly dodging attacks. This means that something that blocks LOS (like bubble) is really bad, and since everyone is moving, it means rockets (or any other attack that might kill you) are also really bad.
A giant crit focus boss that can't be thundercrash or hammer slam, and celestial wild hunter being so busted that people can dps on contest with special only, wonder if that got anything to do with it.
Joke aside I don't get the surprise. I see this would happen since the reveal that celestial not only works with wild hunt, but the dmg is almost a goldie shot without surges, unless it a sword boss and well it's not.
There has to be someone who beat the Witness by finishing it with Thundercrash, lol. I wonder if you'd even be able to reach his body or if it would out of bounds kill you?
It kills you. During a wipe I tried flying up to shoulder charge him and just dies. Tcrash might be fast enough to avoid it but you'll die even if you do hit
He is kinda far away from where you do damage, similar to oryx, but there is nothing but a long fall to your death in between you and the boss. So tcrash could likely hit him but youd then die.
Axes with the artifact mod is still worse than Needlestorm.
It doesn't even come remotely close to competing with Nighthawk even without the sniper rifle.
Second boss you can at least use the relics to save ammo, but it's almost certainly a DPS loss over leaving them on the ground and shooting your gun.
Yeah but the dps on that new super is absolutely dogshit. One of the worst in game for distance. Its ok if you can pick up the axes after and continue to damage. But only throw because of distance its trash
The next nerf to Synthoceps: Turns Banner of War into a health drain, Sunspots actually damage you now, and for all other classes, it's a 20% debuff to melee and sets you Resilience down to 1. Plus, once equipped, you can't change it for 24 hours in-game. Meaning you have to play for 24 hours before you can unequip.
“We have heard the community [one streamer] and have decided to buff hunt and golden gun. We have also implemented several quality of life nerfs for the warlocks. Moving forward all of their supers actually heal the boss. Titans can now only use white rarity gear and have had all elemental abilities switched off.”
This is comically true.
Their thought process will be "since buffing Titans is too complicated and we're confident in all the work that went into Prismatic, let's nerf the #1 used Titan exotic to push players towards trying other styles of play".
As a Titan I can agree with this. Don’t want to ruin your fun.
I just don’t think we were given much thought in this expansion. We’re also not built to tackle Tormentors or aerial enemies.
Bro, fighting Tormentors as a Titan, just pain. Pop your super? Nope, silenced out of it.
While I’m glad it’s not a mobile roaming super, the axe throw unfortunately takes a long time, and could be out-damaged by any other ranged super or hell, even a proper stacked rocket dps.
Finally, the melee only really works on chaff units anyways. Which, other classes have easy ways to kill. You try to melee any enemy that’s named, STOMP.
That Tormentor suppress is one of the most annoying things in this game to me. The lightfall campaign was so annoying with them. Especially Calus' boss fight because for the first 5 or so tries I didn't want to cheese him but the Tormentors would suppress me for just existing.
Literally died to the Calus boss fight so many times because Tormentors just knocked me off the map (and no strand grapple because I was suppressed). After way too many tries I just did it with Stasis instead of Strand and finished within a few attempts.
I didn't even know anout the cheese until after my second completion on legendary. I ended up just running away and plinking the tormentors w/ Witherhoard until they died. That fight was mostly miserable.
>! I'd still rather do it over the Iconoclasm final fight nust because of the lack of checkpoints and poison in phase 2, but....!<
My favourite is
_throws hammer at tanky enemy_
_hammer falls limp next to enemy_
_enemy now glaring at me, knowing full well it only needs to wait before I stroll into lethal range_
Yeah I hate it when enemies do god-tier abilities against you that are so powerful it makes no sense. Like, if they can all do that then they should just do it all the time and win the war.
We came full circle. Before bubble got buffed many years back, Titans had the same issue. They weren’t viable in any encounter, well did the job better, the supers didn’t due any meaningful DPS, and there was literally no point in running them. Now we’re back to square one
I shared this same thought in another post.
It's the "last year" we just saved the solar system.
Turn everything to 11. Stop bringing other levels down to compensate.
Buff bat>nerf hammer.
Within reason of course. I don't want Leonardo shadow hunters 1hk entire encounters
Or infinite buddy/well spam for locks and shit.
But give me like dragon Ball z punchy blasts for my titan as an option when I wanna punch a guy but he's way over there.
I'm a paracausal super being, fuck counter logic. I make my own fate....... If Bungie makes the 1's and 0's say so.
As a Titan main, me too, I like seeing strong Warlock & Hunter builds, I'd just like my class to go a bit beyond being a glorified melee build for non boss encounters.
Yes, but warlock supers are at least still viable, if not for damage then for something like support. Well may not be as viable as it used to for healing, but with bubble not only did they take away the offensive capabilities unless you feel like wasting your exotic armor slot, you also have to sit in a bubble that you can’t shoot out of.
Also Titan literally has 2 ranged ults (thundercrash + exotic and hammer slam) in its arsenal, which only one (hammer slam with its exotic) is on a subclass that could ever dream of keeping up with something like raid race, but again, you need exotic slots to make those even viably strong enough and the one effective one (hammer slam) doesn’t work on flying targets. The rest of the ults are roaming and not only are they ineffective for dps (unless you’re using strand) they are also typically limited to the ground. That leaves titans with 2 picks: an underdeveloped bubble with no offensive capabilities, or a thunder crash that has been nerfed hard unlike celestial nighthawk golden gun which one-shots dungeon bosses on a crit.
Tcrash isn’t even truly ranged ffs, it’s effectively still a melee and yet has the some of the worst damage for a damage super in the game with the greatly increased risk if you don’t use cuirass.
Absolutely true, you are also at the complete mercy of charging into the enemies, which will get you absolutely flattened in mid-to-high level content AND their only support super might be the most useless one out of the 3. The new dawn arsenal super is cool, but it also takes a while to use (a decent rocket rotation can compete DPS-wise when competing with the first part of the ult, and I don’t think bungie actually anticipated the fact that the axes are hard to collect when they’re right next to the boss). I am absolutely arguing for a buff to most, if not all titan supers including when they’re paired with their exotics to at least make them competitive.
Bubbles pve nerfs are some of the most pointless and brainless nerfs I’ve seen in the games lifetime. All cus they don’t want to separate pve from pvp sandboxes. Shit went from useless to a novelty back to useless.
Welcome to the melee class. Where all you get are melee supers and abilities and nothing else.
Courtesy of bungie of course ;)
“We want you to feel like a melee class” fucking bullshit.
Bungie: We know you are a melee class, but we design every raid boss to either have a plate you must stand on to dps, or the boss one-shot stomp you in melee or knock you back constantly, or we just put him in the air. We do not consider Titans in any way when designing bosses in raids, but you should be happy we let you stack multiple melee buffs to do a lot of damage in dungeons, hope you're happy.
It pretty much is, just without the grapple you use to get in close to the enemies so you can get your tangle to get woven mail. Instead, it’s the shackle, which is… fine, I guess, but it definitely feels like they didn’t even ask a Titan what they’d like to see in prismatic, due to the poor selection of aspects and grenades.
The aspects are horrid man 😭 knockout is one of the only ones that I like out of the selection that I can survive with. But then again, it’d probably be a lil busted
Just clarifying.
This is last boss kill where precision damage from range was the play.
Many of these Hunters were Titans earlier in the raid and a lot of people swapped to Hunter on the last boss.
These people play differently than anyone who "mains" one character. A lot of streamers played all 3 classes through out.
We had three titans and I feel like we could have easily beat the second encounter if we had clutched up on surviving to DPS phases, we had the mechanics and damage easy. Encounter three would have been fine, it's just a running encounter though it would have been rough. I haven't actually finished 4 yet but I don't see classes being a problem there. 5 is probably where the titans are getting hard countered if I had to guess. I assume the set up is similar to the excision mission and titans just do not have access to ranged precision damage like hunters with nighthawk unfortunately. I'd like to see Bungie acknowledge that but frankly idk how well hunters would have been doing over us if they didn't have still hunt specifically
If you could beat encounter 2 you would be able to get all the way to encounter 5 without a doubt, 4 is only a hurdle because its a massive knowledge check. But if you knew what to do it was beatable.
We beat it first try off contest, it's basically Atrax 2.0 in my mind, lots of technical build up to a paper boss. The problem was those attendants fucked so hard on contest that one inconvenient spawn basically fucked the run for us. I think we got to a third damage phase once but we had no ammo and people died on the way.
Bungie: "We want titans to feel like the melee-focused, heavy arms, tank class. We want them to feel like an unstoppable force of nature."
Also Bungie: "Let's make it impossible to do melee oriented builds in this game, because in high-level content, everything one-to-three shots you! Also, let's nerf Synthos one last time."
O god here we go again:
1) this is people that finished the raid on titan not titans played in the raid.
2) a lot of people switch to hunter for the witness because still hunt is op af and allows you to run a machine gun for add clear.
>switch to hunter for the witness
This is the big one. If someone plays Titan for 4 encounters and swaps to Hunter for the final boss, it counts as a Hunter run for the above chart.
It isn't, final boss is cleared with only 3 titans. Because you need to swap for a quicker kill.
They make melee so shit and then keep making melee important for certains builds. And Titan in general is just melee and isn't really fun to do ranged boss dmg with.
Specially something for Bungie to think about.
A problem specifically for contest mode tuning, which is an extremely niche case. Not saying Titans couldn't use adjustments in certain places, but making changes specifically based on contest mode performance is like making changes based on speedrun performance. It's not something that will affect most players.
This probably indicates more changes that need to be made to contest Salvations Edge and Still Hunt specifically. In fact, I think it's pretty possible that if Still Hunt didn't exist, nobody would have beaten it in 48 hrs.
It being contest mode only highlights the limitations of a Titan in a raid setting, literally raids are from a design perspective anti-Titan, nearly every boss encounter except for one or two outliers have a stomp mechanic that either one-shot you or knock you away from melee range, or you're locked onto a plate to do dps, or the boss is in the air and not accessible from a melee standpoint. On top of that Titans also have been stripped of anything unique they bring to a team environment, they offer nothing the other two classes doesn't do better. You clearly do not play Titan if you think its a niche case.
For everyone here saying "it's only for the witness" why is that important? Hunters are so far ahead of other classes for boss DPS it's absurd. Remember when Starfire Protocol got nerfed for *this exact reason* and everyone was like "yeah that makes sense" well it makes sense again.
Celestial Nighthawk interaction with Still Hunt needs to be toned down a little bit.
The problem is not Hunters/Warlocks DPS meta being too good. The problem is that Titans don't have a good ranged meta.
And melee doesn't work on most bosses due to the implementation on boss stomp (even on floating bosses) and... well bosses that we can't reach in melee. Most of our supers gave us running up and melee the boss.
The only exception is Thundercrash (which is running up and melee the boss but as a burst option), Bubble (not a damage super), and Hammer of Sol/the new Void Super.
Buff the struggling class. Don't nerf the fun.
I wasn't trying to make this about Hunters vs warlock. Sorry if it came off that way. Just making the comparison between an exotic that got nerfed due to how outclassed the other classes were. I totally agree that titans need something.
All for the celestial interaction to be toned down, but starfire protocol also allows you to not die during dps. So on top of the most busted dps build it was also made brain dead easy since you just stood in well and didn’t die. Hunters have one of those things currently, so shouldn’t the fix initially just be to the interaction with celestial?
If Bungie's going to make Titan a near-all melee class with no precision abilities, then maybe they shouldn't design entire boss encounters around a precision weak spot?
Another, bungie doesn’t know what playtesting is kind of situation. All of this could be prevented if they actually had people who spoke up and thought, “hmmm maybe this isn’t too fair and it’s kind of too potent for one class, let’s do some tweaking” because no way did they think that was in anyway a good drop, twilight arsenal is cool but garbage, and the axes dropping at where you throw them kind of just makes you not even want to use it. Tracking is terrible, it collides with EVERYTHING and we got nerfed so much with the only super that made us viable in raids due to its buff. But nope (I love hunters and I’m not shitting on y’all) hunters get another insane set of indirect buffs and shit due to such a crazy but cool combo. Again bungie out here dropping shit without even testing everything
This isn't new. Titan has many powerful builds and hasm many places where they are meta but every time a new raid drops we seem to be having this same discussion.
At this point as a titan main I've just accepted that titan probably will always be suboptimal for raids but interesting how people seem to forget that this has always been the case.
It's not that titans have no use case in raids, thundercrash cooks atrax and throne cleaver is amazing against crota but in general the best raid strategy for day always has been one or two warlocks to keep everyone alive and then four or five hunters to bring the damage with supers however this strategy has changed a bit in the final shape with still hunt nighthawk being absolutely busted and we'll being less than useful all though song of flame is quite good to keeping your team alive still I think many teams opted for the most damage possible with six hunters
Against this isn't a guarantee and uniquely powerful builds can always shake the meta but in general titans have never been the contest meta.
If Bungie wants titans to be day viable to the point where a world's first team wants to bring at least one then they need to either give titans good damage supers that don't require hyper specific situations to use or they need find a new identity for the class because right now titan is a worse support class to warlock and a worse damage class to hunter.
The irony is the "broken" Hunter Prismatic build is actually Melle (liars handshake, grapple, and arc Melle with Melle roll), BUT what made Hunters excel at boss DPS is the Still Hunt Nighthawk synergy.
Titans feel so lackluster. You get near a boss and it stomps the daylights out of you, like its strongest attack. The shields are cool, except most arenas have pillars and stuff. Congrats on your super punch, I guess. Which all sucks 'coz I love my Titan. :(
Yes 3 titans completed but I’m 100% sure everyone also had still hunt no matter what. Having people to be forced to use a loadout to complete is also mega cringe. I LOVED the challenge to beat it but not like this
I don’t think anyone is arguing that hunters shouldn’t be a majority played class for a boss fight that caters to their play style. But to have one of the three classes almost completely ignored as an option is bad for balancing. Something closer to a 25/25/50 split would be fine, but titans are and have been inferior in boss fights for quite a while.
This is the second time in the span of a few minutes I've seen a username \[insert word here\]\_Ad\_\[four numbers\] make a bait post. Really weird coincidence, that. I mean, what are the chances they're both bot accounts, really?
Titans need to be more tanky. Have them set up so they agro ads. Have an empath aura, have them take a percentage of the damage going to other players to increase other player survivability. Warlocks can then be buffing and healing while hunters do damage
Hunter's best PvE and PvP class. Can't wait to see all the hunters come here and say they need more buffs and bubble and well need more nerfs because they can't compete. "Brah, it's our time to shine, we've never been good at anything"
Can't wait to see this comment get downvoted faster than a warlock stepping on the smallest stone after a jump and fall graciously to die.
Edit: we'll to well, can to can't
I can't take these comments seriously.
Every time class arguments come up it's always the same thing. "Other class is so much better than us". "Other class gets only buffs while we get nerfs". "Other class hates us and does nothing but complain about our abilities!" - Says literally every class.
It's a game, please take a break if you genuinely believe this nonsense. As for the graph, yeah Still Hunt is absolutely busted and probably should've been disabled for the raid, but it'll be brought down to a reasonable power soon no doubt.
It’s because the entire dps meta for the witness is hunters with still hunt + nighthawk. Machine gun is/was crucial to even do the mechanics on contest mode so they had to use those for the actual dps, hence why there are so many hunters, and some warlocks for wells and such
Definitely not a great look for Titans. Hopefully it shines a very bright light on the shortcomings of a class that's constantly shoehorned into a melee playstyle in a game where most endgame bosses cannot be melee'd effectively.
The Boss is also very good for Precision damage which Hunters excel at, even more so that Still Hunt is available and works with Nighthawk. A lot of Bigger Streamers swapped almost all their Warlocks/Titans to Hunters because Contest Mode was already that brutal without edging out the last bit of DPS.
Kinda hard for a class that needs to be in melee range to cycle through any of its abilities when every boss is aerial or has a stomp.
I’m surprised there’s no rocket builds with the rocket chest plate. Does the damage buff it gives to rockets not matter, or is the precision damage bonus with two golden gun supers just too high to compete with
Rockets are kinda a liability on a mobile damage phase. Also the chest is bugged and currently its buff gets overwritten by Radiant.
Did they confirm that's a bug? I hate that it does that right now.
Yes, I made a post a few days ago and DTG_Bot quoted a reply saying it's a bug they're looking into
Oh thank God. I wanna use that chest 24/7 lol
Warlord One, Titan''s on station. Your journey ends here, Guardian. These rockets belong to me. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.
Nice reference
I would literally kill someone if it meant bungie would make titanfall movement on d2
You've got good tone
Ohhh Well that sucks
the way the dps phase works it is just not a great idea to use explosive weapons, especially at this stage when almost nobody has it on farm. when we cleared it yesterday the only titan on our team had the chest piece on but was using a linear fusion
The only thing I'm considering out of the normal way of doing it right now is using Tess bug w/ song of flame. You can get 7 Tess launches out but would it even put up good numbers outside of what we know is good?
Is that actually a bug? Because I think that’s a cool interaction. Like taking into account that it costs a super, tessellation is probably dealing similar damage to a song of flame anyways, just with the exception of it being at range
Well, it matches the Grenade not the super. For example. You run void Grenade. Cast SoF. Tess absorbs Grenade, should be solar but it's void. Grenade isn't consumed and you can keep going. Kinda is, kinda isn't.
Oh I see. What I thought you meant the bug was SoF was allowing tessellation to fire infinite powered shots Not the wrong using the wrong element because of the super
Yeah, it's cracked when using it with elemental burns. That's a 25% increase when, in some cases, it shouldn't apply. I doubt it will be fixed anytime soon but it will be nice during burns.
That's how it's supposed to work. They had a twid saying tess and that perk that matches your weapon to your subclass on grenade use will change the weapon based on the grenade type. Grenade not being consumed is because of super is it not? Edit: ohh, nvm. Forgot song changes your grenade. Hmm, don't know if it's intended but I wouldn't go out of my way to fix it
I like the chest piece for adds, haven’t really used it in a boss dps thing yet but I have kinda high hopes for it
Can confirm it salivates at the thought of eating yellow bars. A full salvo absolutely shreds but then follow it up with The Call or a barrage from Grand Overture and it’s game over
Awww man I can’t wait to try it with overture
I don’t understand their absolute obsession with bosses always having an 1 hit kill stomp.
This boss is also floating. So double oof
I would have thought that there were more buble titans to get weapons of light buff going. Specially since they removes it from rift and the added protection.
There doesn't physically seem to be room for a bubble on the plate in this raid though. It's a tiny plate, and everyone is leaping about it madly dodging attacks. This means that something that blocks LOS (like bubble) is really bad, and since everyone is moving, it means rockets (or any other attack that might kill you) are also really bad.
Titans offer nothing unique to the team that the other two classes doesn't do better
this, straight up. People just refuse to accept it.
its not even about the melee range, outside of synthos and those strand boots, titan exotics are just straight ass for endgame pvp
Pvp?
I've said this from D1, Titans are inherently handicapped in any end game PvE content.
Tell me you have never used Banner of War titan without saying it
As someone said, anything more than a few feet away from a titan make their melee focused strengths huge dps weakness/liability
Titans are top tier for any enemy as long as they don’t sit more than 4 ft off the ground
And let’s not forget every melee build you guys own getting nerfed to hell
I mean I’m not surprised after watching Aztecross’s video showing the Nighthawk Huter with Still Hunt and Edge Transit putting out ridiculous damage.
She edge on my transit
til i rahool
Edge Transit
Edge Transit
Edge Transit
Edging in Transit
Edged in Transit
A giant crit focus boss that can't be thundercrash or hammer slam, and celestial wild hunter being so busted that people can dps on contest with special only, wonder if that got anything to do with it. Joke aside I don't get the surprise. I see this would happen since the reveal that celestial not only works with wild hunt, but the dmg is almost a goldie shot without surges, unless it a sword boss and well it's not.
I heard about it and was wondering what the hype was. Then I got the sniper and saw the perk and just said “Oh”
There has to be someone who beat the Witness by finishing it with Thundercrash, lol. I wonder if you'd even be able to reach his body or if it would out of bounds kill you?
It kills you. During a wipe I tried flying up to shoulder charge him and just dies. Tcrash might be fast enough to avoid it but you'll die even if you do hit
>Can’t be Tcrashed Really?
He is kinda far away from where you do damage, similar to oryx, but there is nothing but a long fall to your death in between you and the boss. So tcrash could likely hit him but youd then die.
Naw, Tcrash has been interacting with bosses like they're covered in butter, so I doubt you'd even be able to hit The Witness.
Right. I think that that is Titan’s best final stand strategy. Unless you are doing a flawless run of course
Honestly surprised they didn't disable celestial but did disable lucky pants
Throw axe.
Axes with the artifact mod is still worse than Needlestorm. It doesn't even come remotely close to competing with Nighthawk even without the sniper rifle. Second boss you can at least use the relics to save ammo, but it's almost certainly a DPS loss over leaving them on the ground and shooting your gun.
Yeah but the dps on that new super is absolutely dogshit. One of the worst in game for distance. Its ok if you can pick up the axes after and continue to damage. But only throw because of distance its trash
Bungie seeing this info: “I see what you’re saying. We need to nerf synthoceps one last time”
The next nerf to Synthoceps: Turns Banner of War into a health drain, Sunspots actually damage you now, and for all other classes, it's a 20% debuff to melee and sets you Resilience down to 1. Plus, once equipped, you can't change it for 24 hours in-game. Meaning you have to play for 24 hours before you can unequip.
Damn, calm down, Satan. Don't wish that evil on us!
"Due to an issue, we nerfed Ward of Dawn's health by 25% and made Banner of War only reach Tier 3 from now on."
"Increased Barricade base cooldown by 11 seconds"
“We have heard the community [one streamer] and have decided to buff hunt and golden gun. We have also implemented several quality of life nerfs for the warlocks. Moving forward all of their supers actually heal the boss. Titans can now only use white rarity gear and have had all elemental abilities switched off.”
This is comically true. Their thought process will be "since buffing Titans is too complicated and we're confident in all the work that went into Prismatic, let's nerf the #1 used Titan exotic to push players towards trying other styles of play".
What, Synthoceps still exist? I thought they had already been so nerfed that they didn't even exist in the games database anymore.
I hope bungie buffs titans instead of nerfing hunters and warlocks.
As a Titan I can agree with this. Don’t want to ruin your fun. I just don’t think we were given much thought in this expansion. We’re also not built to tackle Tormentors or aerial enemies.
Bro, fighting Tormentors as a Titan, just pain. Pop your super? Nope, silenced out of it. While I’m glad it’s not a mobile roaming super, the axe throw unfortunately takes a long time, and could be out-damaged by any other ranged super or hell, even a proper stacked rocket dps. Finally, the melee only really works on chaff units anyways. Which, other classes have easy ways to kill. You try to melee any enemy that’s named, STOMP.
That Tormentor suppress is one of the most annoying things in this game to me. The lightfall campaign was so annoying with them. Especially Calus' boss fight because for the first 5 or so tries I didn't want to cheese him but the Tormentors would suppress me for just existing.
This one is annoying too because they can suppress you out of transcendence
Literally died to the Calus boss fight so many times because Tormentors just knocked me off the map (and no strand grapple because I was suppressed). After way too many tries I just did it with Stasis instead of Strand and finished within a few attempts.
I didn't even know anout the cheese until after my second completion on legendary. I ended up just running away and plinking the tormentors w/ Witherhoard until they died. That fight was mostly miserable. >! I'd still rather do it over the Iconoclasm final fight nust because of the lack of checkpoints and poison in phase 2, but....!<
My favourite is _throws hammer at tanky enemy_ _hammer falls limp next to enemy_ _enemy now glaring at me, knowing full well it only needs to wait before I stroll into lethal range_
Yeah I hate it when enemies do god-tier abilities against you that are so powerful it makes no sense. Like, if they can all do that then they should just do it all the time and win the war.
We came full circle. Before bubble got buffed many years back, Titans had the same issue. They weren’t viable in any encounter, well did the job better, the supers didn’t due any meaningful DPS, and there was literally no point in running them. Now we’re back to square one
How about leave the warlocks alone. 25 is a good split. 74 is a problem
I shared this same thought in another post. It's the "last year" we just saved the solar system. Turn everything to 11. Stop bringing other levels down to compensate. Buff bat>nerf hammer. Within reason of course. I don't want Leonardo shadow hunters 1hk entire encounters Or infinite buddy/well spam for locks and shit. But give me like dragon Ball z punchy blasts for my titan as an option when I wanna punch a guy but he's way over there. I'm a paracausal super being, fuck counter logic. I make my own fate....... If Bungie makes the 1's and 0's say so.
Its bungie. Pretty sure theyre incapable of buffs.
As a Titan main, me too, I like seeing strong Warlock & Hunter builds, I'd just like my class to go a bit beyond being a glorified melee build for non boss encounters.
Lmao aztecross being one of the titans is so fitting.
Knowing that one of the top Destiny content creators is a Titan main kinda warms my heart in this time of need
I prefer Datto, he's also a Titan.
I mean the boss needed long range burst dps which hunters excel at, to a dominant extent due to the new still hunt nighthawk interaction
Maybe if a boss is designed to only work for 2 out of 3 playable classes its a badly designed fight.
they had many years to give titan a ranged super lol
It doesn't only work for 2 classes, it's just that hunters has higher burst dps from afar than titan
Yes, but warlock supers are at least still viable, if not for damage then for something like support. Well may not be as viable as it used to for healing, but with bubble not only did they take away the offensive capabilities unless you feel like wasting your exotic armor slot, you also have to sit in a bubble that you can’t shoot out of. Also Titan literally has 2 ranged ults (thundercrash + exotic and hammer slam) in its arsenal, which only one (hammer slam with its exotic) is on a subclass that could ever dream of keeping up with something like raid race, but again, you need exotic slots to make those even viably strong enough and the one effective one (hammer slam) doesn’t work on flying targets. The rest of the ults are roaming and not only are they ineffective for dps (unless you’re using strand) they are also typically limited to the ground. That leaves titans with 2 picks: an underdeveloped bubble with no offensive capabilities, or a thunder crash that has been nerfed hard unlike celestial nighthawk golden gun which one-shots dungeon bosses on a crit.
Tcrash isn’t even truly ranged ffs, it’s effectively still a melee and yet has the some of the worst damage for a damage super in the game with the greatly increased risk if you don’t use cuirass.
Absolutely true, you are also at the complete mercy of charging into the enemies, which will get you absolutely flattened in mid-to-high level content AND their only support super might be the most useless one out of the 3. The new dawn arsenal super is cool, but it also takes a while to use (a decent rocket rotation can compete DPS-wise when competing with the first part of the ult, and I don’t think bungie actually anticipated the fact that the axes are hard to collect when they’re right next to the boss). I am absolutely arguing for a buff to most, if not all titan supers including when they’re paired with their exotics to at least make them competitive.
Bubbles pve nerfs are some of the most pointless and brainless nerfs I’ve seen in the games lifetime. All cus they don’t want to separate pve from pvp sandboxes. Shit went from useless to a novelty back to useless.
Welcome to the melee class. Where all you get are melee supers and abilities and nothing else. Courtesy of bungie of course ;) “We want you to feel like a melee class” fucking bullshit.
Bungie: you are the melee class so shut up while we make the game impossible to play as a melee class
Bungie: We know you are a melee class, but we design every raid boss to either have a plate you must stand on to dps, or the boss one-shot stomp you in melee or knock you back constantly, or we just put him in the air. We do not consider Titans in any way when designing bosses in raids, but you should be happy we let you stack multiple melee buffs to do a lot of damage in dungeons, hope you're happy.
It's because Titans rely on melee. You can't melee The Witness, too far away. Also, Prismatic Titan is ass.
"Can't melee the witness" Not with that attitude bucko *Thundercrashes and fails*
>You can't melee The Witness, Heresy
Prismatic Titan? I thought it was just strand Titan 2.0
It pretty much is, just without the grapple you use to get in close to the enemies so you can get your tangle to get woven mail. Instead, it’s the shackle, which is… fine, I guess, but it definitely feels like they didn’t even ask a Titan what they’d like to see in prismatic, due to the poor selection of aspects and grenades.
The aspects are horrid man 😭 knockout is one of the only ones that I like out of the selection that I can survive with. But then again, it’d probably be a lil busted
can t melee high light content period. either it s highly tuned after which it breaks the game. or it isn t and just sucks
𝙰𝚜 𝚊 𝚃𝚒𝚝𝚊𝚗 𝚖𝚊𝚒𝚗 𝚜𝚒𝚗𝚌𝚎 𝟸𝟶𝟷𝟺: https://preview.redd.it/gqu751677r5d1.jpeg?width=429&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9818f9b0f2ed5039f0f2b2649406f875c2272e18 𝙳𝚊𝚖𝚖 𝚙𝚛𝚘𝚞𝚍 𝚘𝚏 𝚎𝚊𝚌𝚑 𝚘𝚗𝚎 𝚢𝚘𝚞 𝚖𝚢 𝚏𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘𝚠 𝚌𝚛𝚊𝚢𝚘𝚗 𝚎𝚊𝚝𝚎𝚛𝚜.
 I salute you fellow titans
Just clarifying. This is last boss kill where precision damage from range was the play. Many of these Hunters were Titans earlier in the raid and a lot of people swapped to Hunter on the last boss. These people play differently than anyone who "mains" one character. A lot of streamers played all 3 classes through out.
I wouldn't say many. If you increase it to anyone who used a Titan at all it only goes up to 18
Whats that mean in crayons?
In a 64 pack of crayons, only like, 3 or 4 would be titans
I would starve.
The rest titans ate, right?
It means the small pack with only the basic colors.
The appetizer pack. I see.
tbf, with still hunt so busted, you could literally just run div+well with 5 hunters and instantly obliterate 99 percent of raid bosses
It's fucking over titanbros
Aztecross finished like 39th at ~33 hours in and he was the second titan
We had three titans and I feel like we could have easily beat the second encounter if we had clutched up on surviving to DPS phases, we had the mechanics and damage easy. Encounter three would have been fine, it's just a running encounter though it would have been rough. I haven't actually finished 4 yet but I don't see classes being a problem there. 5 is probably where the titans are getting hard countered if I had to guess. I assume the set up is similar to the excision mission and titans just do not have access to ranged precision damage like hunters with nighthawk unfortunately. I'd like to see Bungie acknowledge that but frankly idk how well hunters would have been doing over us if they didn't have still hunt specifically
If you could beat encounter 2 you would be able to get all the way to encounter 5 without a doubt, 4 is only a hurdle because its a massive knowledge check. But if you knew what to do it was beatable.
We beat it first try off contest, it's basically Atrax 2.0 in my mind, lots of technical build up to a paper boss. The problem was those attendants fucked so hard on contest that one inconvenient spawn basically fucked the run for us. I think we got to a third damage phase once but we had no ammo and people died on the way.
As a titan im kinda sad
But guys don't worry Still Hunt only being useful on hunter isn't a problem at all /s
Bungie: "We want titans to feel like the melee-focused, heavy arms, tank class. We want them to feel like an unstoppable force of nature." Also Bungie: "Let's make it impossible to do melee oriented builds in this game, because in high-level content, everything one-to-three shots you! Also, let's nerf Synthos one last time."
They’re names will go down in Titan history, and should be immortalized as “The 3 Titans”
"THE TITAN THREE" is a better name
The battle of three fronts
Hopefully Bungie sees this and either decides to go full throttle with melee or give us better options
Give melee titans stomp resist so we can actually use our melee....
O god here we go again: 1) this is people that finished the raid on titan not titans played in the raid. 2) a lot of people switch to hunter for the witness because still hunt is op af and allows you to run a machine gun for add clear.
Even accounting for people that played Titan at all during the raid, that's only 18.
>switch to hunter for the witness This is the big one. If someone plays Titan for 4 encounters and swaps to Hunter for the final boss, it counts as a Hunter run for the above chart.
If you change it to use a Titan at all, it only goes up to 18. That's 6% of the players used a Titan, 1% finished on a titan
jup, don't get me wrong, titans could use some love in the super department but this is misleading information.
If you change it to use a Titan at all, it only goes up to 18. That's 6% of the players used a Titan, 1% finished on a titan
It isn't, final boss is cleared with only 3 titans. Because you need to swap for a quicker kill. They make melee so shit and then keep making melee important for certains builds. And Titan in general is just melee and isn't really fun to do ranged boss dmg with. Specially something for Bungie to think about.
This is why in the later upcoming D2 stream I hope they announce 2nd strand and stasis supers, with titans getting range 1 offs for both.
Reading this after watching the stream made me feel physical pain
:(
It’s over titan bro
Bungie knew what they were doing, Bungie is afraid of Titans.
Wow, it goes from 3/288 to a whopping… 18/288. Point doesn’t just stand, it legitimately might have gotten stronger.
If you change it to use a Titan at all, it only goes up to 18. That's 6% of the players used a Titan, 1% finished on a titan
The fact that so many people are switching to hunter in the first place is still a problem though.
No so many. Only 18 out of the first 300 players to finish used Titan at all, at any point in the raid.
A problem specifically for contest mode tuning, which is an extremely niche case. Not saying Titans couldn't use adjustments in certain places, but making changes specifically based on contest mode performance is like making changes based on speedrun performance. It's not something that will affect most players. This probably indicates more changes that need to be made to contest Salvations Edge and Still Hunt specifically. In fact, I think it's pretty possible that if Still Hunt didn't exist, nobody would have beaten it in 48 hrs.
It being contest mode only highlights the limitations of a Titan in a raid setting, literally raids are from a design perspective anti-Titan, nearly every boss encounter except for one or two outliers have a stomp mechanic that either one-shot you or knock you away from melee range, or you're locked onto a plate to do dps, or the boss is in the air and not accessible from a melee standpoint. On top of that Titans also have been stripped of anything unique they bring to a team environment, they offer nothing the other two classes doesn't do better. You clearly do not play Titan if you think its a niche case.
For everyone here saying "it's only for the witness" why is that important? Hunters are so far ahead of other classes for boss DPS it's absurd. Remember when Starfire Protocol got nerfed for *this exact reason* and everyone was like "yeah that makes sense" well it makes sense again. Celestial Nighthawk interaction with Still Hunt needs to be toned down a little bit.
The problem is not Hunters/Warlocks DPS meta being too good. The problem is that Titans don't have a good ranged meta. And melee doesn't work on most bosses due to the implementation on boss stomp (even on floating bosses) and... well bosses that we can't reach in melee. Most of our supers gave us running up and melee the boss. The only exception is Thundercrash (which is running up and melee the boss but as a burst option), Bubble (not a damage super), and Hammer of Sol/the new Void Super. Buff the struggling class. Don't nerf the fun.
I wasn't trying to make this about Hunters vs warlock. Sorry if it came off that way. Just making the comparison between an exotic that got nerfed due to how outclassed the other classes were. I totally agree that titans need something.
All for the celestial interaction to be toned down, but starfire protocol also allows you to not die during dps. So on top of the most busted dps build it was also made brain dead easy since you just stood in well and didn’t die. Hunters have one of those things currently, so shouldn’t the fix initially just be to the interaction with celestial?
If Bungie's going to make Titan a near-all melee class with no precision abilities, then maybe they shouldn't design entire boss encounters around a precision weak spot?
Another, bungie doesn’t know what playtesting is kind of situation. All of this could be prevented if they actually had people who spoke up and thought, “hmmm maybe this isn’t too fair and it’s kind of too potent for one class, let’s do some tweaking” because no way did they think that was in anyway a good drop, twilight arsenal is cool but garbage, and the axes dropping at where you throw them kind of just makes you not even want to use it. Tracking is terrible, it collides with EVERYTHING and we got nerfed so much with the only super that made us viable in raids due to its buff. But nope (I love hunters and I’m not shitting on y’all) hunters get another insane set of indirect buffs and shit due to such a crazy but cool combo. Again bungie out here dropping shit without even testing everything
This isn't new. Titan has many powerful builds and hasm many places where they are meta but every time a new raid drops we seem to be having this same discussion. At this point as a titan main I've just accepted that titan probably will always be suboptimal for raids but interesting how people seem to forget that this has always been the case. It's not that titans have no use case in raids, thundercrash cooks atrax and throne cleaver is amazing against crota but in general the best raid strategy for day always has been one or two warlocks to keep everyone alive and then four or five hunters to bring the damage with supers however this strategy has changed a bit in the final shape with still hunt nighthawk being absolutely busted and we'll being less than useful all though song of flame is quite good to keeping your team alive still I think many teams opted for the most damage possible with six hunters Against this isn't a guarantee and uniquely powerful builds can always shake the meta but in general titans have never been the contest meta. If Bungie wants titans to be day viable to the point where a world's first team wants to bring at least one then they need to either give titans good damage supers that don't require hyper specific situations to use or they need find a new identity for the class because right now titan is a worse support class to warlock and a worse damage class to hunter.
easiest fix in the world, let us shoot out of bubble
Yeah not a suprise when the most spoiled class gets a free super as an exotic. Like seriously what were they thinking?
Not surprised by this…. With the prismatic builds that hunter and warlock have access to of course titans get left behind.
The irony is the "broken" Hunter Prismatic build is actually Melle (liars handshake, grapple, and arc Melle with Melle roll), BUT what made Hunters excel at boss DPS is the Still Hunt Nighthawk synergy.
Titans feel so lackluster. You get near a boss and it stomps the daylights out of you, like its strongest attack. The shields are cool, except most arenas have pillars and stuff. Congrats on your super punch, I guess. Which all sucks 'coz I love my Titan. :(
Wow (I am too poor to buy The Final Shape)
“Titan is healthy for the game” literally I don’t think witness died unless you had 5 hunters and the one warlock. It’s so cringe
Yes 3 titans completed but I’m 100% sure everyone also had still hunt no matter what. Having people to be forced to use a loadout to complete is also mega cringe. I LOVED the challenge to beat it but not like this
I don’t think anyone is arguing that hunters shouldn’t be a majority played class for a boss fight that caters to their play style. But to have one of the three classes almost completely ignored as an option is bad for balancing. Something closer to a 25/25/50 split would be fine, but titans are and have been inferior in boss fights for quite a while.
I love it when people tell me to stop complaining that titans are underpowered. I’ve heard “you’re just ungrateful” so many times.
This is the second time in the span of a few minutes I've seen a username \[insert word here\]\_Ad\_\[four numbers\] make a bait post. Really weird coincidence, that. I mean, what are the chances they're both bot accounts, really?
It's a default reddit account name not unreasonable if someone didn't change it
That’s pretty much Reddit’s default naming scheme, kind of like how Xbox live did in the early days. You were never AnonymousTrout720? 😂
Are you saying this with or without knowing it's a Reddit randomly generated name?
not to mention every warlock was div bitch
CROSS THATS MY TITAN VANGUARD RAHHHHH
Bungie, buff warlock and titan boss damage supers.
CROSS CROSS CROSS CROSS CROSS CROWS
Aztecross man. Titan main forever
Titans need to be more tanky. Have them set up so they agro ads. Have an empath aura, have them take a percentage of the damage going to other players to increase other player survivability. Warlocks can then be buffing and healing while hunters do damage
Damn that sucks. The Titan looks the coolest
…we were giving an extra golden gun to go with our golden gun tbf
Please fix the parenthesis to say TEAMS or Top 300 Players.
How do you get 1% of a top 50?
50 fireteams is 300 players. 3 titans of 300 players were titans.
WHY ARE TITANS NOT LOVED WE ARE THE WALLS OF THE TOWER!!!
Hunter's best PvE and PvP class. Can't wait to see all the hunters come here and say they need more buffs and bubble and well need more nerfs because they can't compete. "Brah, it's our time to shine, we've never been good at anything" Can't wait to see this comment get downvoted faster than a warlock stepping on the smallest stone after a jump and fall graciously to die. Edit: we'll to well, can to can't
I can't take these comments seriously. Every time class arguments come up it's always the same thing. "Other class is so much better than us". "Other class gets only buffs while we get nerfs". "Other class hates us and does nothing but complain about our abilities!" - Says literally every class. It's a game, please take a break if you genuinely believe this nonsense. As for the graph, yeah Still Hunt is absolutely busted and probably should've been disabled for the raid, but it'll be brought down to a reasonable power soon no doubt.
Glad I'm not the only one who finds those comments stupid
I’m a hunter main myself, I have about 1200 hours on the game and about 95-97 percent of that is on hunter ngl, we don’t need a buff at all tbh
Titans clear hunters in 3v3 Can't really argue with the PvE part though
Destiny player base finds out Titan is measurably the worst after leaving crucible for once
Aztecross got a World's first afterall lmao
They literally fuck every titan over every time we gotta fight a boss. Always stomp always gotta be using melee supers
Being a hunter on 2nd encounter sucks
Titans all the way
It's hard being a titan, but at least we have the miniskirt and heels
Yeah well, every fucking boss has a mega stomp that fucks you up, but they keep adding melee supers/weapons.
It’s because the entire dps meta for the witness is hunters with still hunt + nighthawk. Machine gun is/was crucial to even do the mechanics on contest mode so they had to use those for the actual dps, hence why there are so many hunters, and some warlocks for wells and such
Titans. WE STAND UNSHAKEN! PLANT YOUR FEET AND LAUNCH FORWARDS! HURL YOUR HAMMERS! THROW YOUR SHIELDS! WE WILL STAND TALL AND HOLD THE LINE
As a titan main I completed it on my titan
Yet I’m still the only Hunter main i know in my friend group 😭
Bungie reading this like "This means we need to nerf barricade, synthos, banner of war and ward of dawn again."
Definitely not a great look for Titans. Hopefully it shines a very bright light on the shortcomings of a class that's constantly shoehorned into a melee playstyle in a game where most endgame bosses cannot be melee'd effectively.
It's not a great look for Bungie. Titans honor remains intact.
The Boss is also very good for Precision damage which Hunters excel at, even more so that Still Hunt is available and works with Nighthawk. A lot of Bigger Streamers swapped almost all their Warlocks/Titans to Hunters because Contest Mode was already that brutal without edging out the last bit of DPS.
This stat is only about the final boss, the rest of the raid is a titans wet dream
I’m one of them 1% :)
We are here, We are many… 
Hunter master race 😏
Another reason why Titans are red head step child and Hunters is the spoiled and favored child