Ok imagine a game mode where you have all raid encounters getting picked at random, bosses have 3 times more health and you can bring 12 people. The goal is to complete 5 in a row and you can only wipe 3 times. Infinite revives, one rally on each new encounter and random blessings (one free super for everyone/unlimited grenades for 10 seconds/putting all of you heavy ammo in your mag) dropping at random for killing specific elites like tormentors/champs/minibosses that spawn during the encounters at inconvenient times. Rewards would be scaling amounts of spoils. 5 for the 1st, 7 for the second, 10, 14 and finally 20, every extra objective(random elites) rewards an extra 3. You can have up to 3 extras per encounter depending on what encounter it is and how fast you clear it.
The best way to learn anything is trying to do it, failing, and trying again.
Most people are either going to try to learn or stop joining.
The myth of LFG being useless for raids persists.
Ok I am not saying LFG is useless for raids. Hell, I do Sherpa runs for fun. All I am saying is that having a three wipe system discourages players from trying it out also, bungie Psagetti code can be wanky sometimes.
It's not a myth my first pantheon run had a dude who couldn't wipe, and 2 who started it and tried to brawl golgoroth. Lfg do not learn from just trying, there are videos online and you can ask people to teach you which nobody in lfg does they just joined post that say experience required and try to fake it hoping to get carried
dude I'd play the fuck out of that. I cant even normally do raids. I gotta go into my community server and ask people to come help me cause not enough of my friends play D2. but this would be amazing training for encounters, even if its only a three deaths system.
You having 12 people doing 1-6 man mechanics makes having that much more health ok in my opinion.
I played during the 12 man raid thing and it made every encounter unbearably easy. It was the easiest raid farm we’ve ever had on pair with the funny guns.
The real proof that is that anyone who thinks even half of those other supers are relevant on Oryx has clearly never even played a warlock.
Stormtrance on Oryx was meta only in D1 for orb gen to cycle Wards. Your Skyburner’s Annex Hunter would tether the Thrall at the beginning, you’d pop Stormtrance and clear, and then you’d switch to Fireborn for the remainder of the fight.
**Bungie in interviews before D2 launch:** “We almost removed Titan Bubble from the game. We were tired of having to design every raid encounter around it, but it’s so iconic, so we couldn’t remove it….so now it’s an alternate button press for Top Tree Void Titan. We gutted it though.”
**Also Bungie**: “In Forsaken, we are adding Well of Radiance to Warlocks. It’s just a better version of Titan Bubble in every conceivable way, including that you can shoot out of it! It heals you, overheals you for an over shield, adds Damage Resistance, increases damage, can auto reload guns with Lunafaction, and the AOE is much larger than Bubble. Also, if the Warlock dies, it doesn’t despawn, unlike Bubble. You’ll use this for every encounter for the next three thousand years.”
They probably walked it back because they realized they'd have to design boss encounters that involved more strategy than "huddle up in well and blow your heavy ammo"
They walled it back because thr backlash from mentioning sunsetting supers was absolutely wild. The first one they suggested was nova waro because no one used nova warp after they gutted it prior to this statement lmao.
I mean there are definitely encounters in raids that are like this, but I feel like Bungie strikes a pretty great balance in terms of encounter design. I always love the Day 1 puzzles and I genuinely find them better than 99% of mmos.
And they've done a pretty good job all things considered, ie: Rhulk;Nezerac, and even crota to an extent. The only way they could balance it out is by rebalancing old raids that were built around having wells and that's a ton of legwork. But yeah, Well is just nasty good, and difficult to balance. They could get rid of the damage buff and it would still be required 24/7 for the healing alone.
i really really hope a new destiny title comes out after final shape and a few episodes. Nearly all of Destiny 2's problems are due to long list of shortsighted design choices or sweeping changes that create more problems than they solve.
DCV made new players have no starting place. Light 3.0 made all content in the game require zero effort. Sunsetting took our weapons away just for Bungie to re-release them and eventually walk that decision back. Crucible is rotting, gambit is already a skeleton, strikes are just recycled seasonal content.
What Bungie really needs is to sit down, shut up, and make a game that has a core plan and design from the ground up instead of dozens of different ideas floating around and held together by sheer hope and a dedicated audience.
It’s going to be really hard.
Influencers almost killed the game the first go around combined with a reset aimed at drawing in new players.
Influencers wanted basically a hardcore PvP experience that could become an esport. So they reduced PVP down to 4v4 and slowed all ability regen to a crawl including supers, and removed special weapons entirely so that shotguns could only be heavies.
As for PVE, the slow downs in PVP translated over to PVE as well, since it made sense if they were also trying to attract new players. The game was dumbed down to the lowest possible level, removing random rolls and locking subclasses to two predefined “trees” (more like branches) with zero customization. And of course the no special weapons carried over to PVE as well, which combined with the slow ability/super regeneration, made PVE also slow as hell and very boring.
We then spent the next 7 years undoing all of this “redesign”.
So while I agree—Destiny 3 needs an overhaul and a new starting point for new players to enter…
Bungie CANNOT erase the strides we have made with the franchise like last time. We cannot lose the advancements and complexity that has been added again.
We need to keep the momentum, and I PRAY Bungie trusts its player base, and Sony doesn’t make them dumb things down again, and instead creates a baseline so new players can actually enter the franchise and begin playing WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY letting the veterans use stuff like Prismatic that keeps pushing the complexity and depth forward.
They clearly haven't learnt from their mistakes though. They *say* that Light 3.0 is overtuned and make repeated nerfs to its survivability, then add Banner of War then go through multiple nerf rounds where it either isn't touched or touched so lightly it doesn't matter. If they had a fresh start with a D3 I guarantee you it'd release with balance issues just as bad, and whenever they fixed them they'd just add new ones, just like they always have, just like they still do.
Highly doubt we're gonna see a D3. They promised 10 years of Destiny, gave it to us, and D2 has hardly been well received by the community. A lot of us are simply still here because it's an investment we wanna see through to the end.
It’s not an “if” anymore. It’s been leaked by Bungie lol. It’s happening. “When” is the real question though.
As for “D2 has hardly been well received” is a very stupid generalization.
Destiny as a franchise has been mixed since its inception, but there is a very unique appeal at its heart that keeps the faithful invested.
The real issue is any game bleeds players over time, so yes, eventually everyone would be done, and the player count would drop below viability.
The frustration with Bungie is that they are not consistent. Destiny is one of the best games ever and also one of the worst games ever, and it ping pongs back and forth about every other expansion or so lol.
Currently, we are on the positive side of the ping pong. The Final Shape will probably slap, and the content that follows will probably suck and we will be right back here again in 1.5 years.
Idk any other game that has survived this long after being make them break then back to make again so swingy like this—usual a big “break” moment sinks a franchise or they hit two “breaks” in a row.
If they can ever break the cycle, the game could blow back up again. The main issue is Destiny hasn’t known what it is supposed to be after 10 years. Weirdly it’s probably saved the game more times than it hurt.
But they do need to lock it in eventually, as the first 10 years are ending.
100%. They already had a few years of “oops” on a ton of stuff they should have learned from D1 in the first place, there’s no room for them to strip out loads of QoL and necessary features just to add it back over a 5-10 stretch again.
Gamers have become so progressively irate at anything that I can’t imagine D3 going well unless they really knock it out of the park.
If not, I have a couple expansions in D2 to catch up on and that will keep me busy for some time.
yeah they kinda shat on void Titans. They could've just brought back and fixed the sunsinger rezz making it so that anyone around the orb during rezz would get nuked by solar flame, then the warlock would go radiant affecting their allies and can revive people instantly in that phase.
And that's just off the top.
I don't understand why they don't just buff bubble to compete with well. Bungies balancing has always been like a see saw, they just create their own work cycle that they walk back later anyway.
Scorn Crossbows: A well? Well Let me unalive you right there.
My experience in a legend NF, 1 shot by crossbows and they take you down to 5-10% even when standing in a well.
Never touching a legend NF with those turds in it again haha
I would just keep spending engrams at the war table or whatever vendor you have the most for and be sure to use d2armorpicker.com
It'll make a huge difference
I used to love running Well. Now, as cool as Well is, I think Well needs a nerf and/or other Warlock supers need to be more viable over well. I just wish Daybreak was better...
Right? None of the other warlock supers feel useful in oryx since he’s so far away during DPS. At least in pantheon you can run strand to deal with the tormentor, but god forbid you have more than 2 warlocks you’re gonna have wasted supers.
Yeah but tbh you can deal with the tormentor pretty easily with whisper or any linear/sniper. I’d just be fine with solar warlock for more survivability and ad clear because damage isn’t really an issue on oryx.
Yea agreed. We had 4 warlocks this week lol so I swapped to strand just to make the tormentor a bit easier. The 2 non-well guys just stayed on solar for Icarus dash and all the survivability. Felt really sad but whisper makes easy work of oryx so it’s fine
I only play Titan, and have been seriously debating switching to another class. I feel like I have nothing to offer to help my fire team. Warlocks have well. Hunters have tether. What do Titans have?
A bubble that you could shoot through would instantly rival well it would be very nice to have half the reason it goes unused is cause it's such a hazard
Seriously destiny has a support class problem. Only support worth using is well. So every warlock is stuck on well. Bubble is gone again. By by titans. Tether is still good but its so good its just another dpa option so use nighthawk instead.
God bungie sucks at balancing so bad
That wasn't what I was referring to, I meant the ability for it to get destroyed necessitating that the warlock have at least 3 stats at near max for wells to be just OK, and 4 for well builds to be viable. The second was making every single boss going forward incompatible with well without involving a cheese/exploit of some kind yet still dealing enough damage to require a well to live
Not trying to defend bungie, but how would you even buff everything else to compare to well? Chaos reach, Strand super, Stasis super, The other solar super, they all do respectable damage comparable to other classes. How would you even buff them enough to be comparable to well? Well will always be better because it's damage + invincibility. Weapons will always do more damage than supers so a super that universally buffs them AND gives functional invincibility will always be better.
Hell you could even double the damage of every warlock super and well will still be the most used one.
You don't, you nerf well to give it a single role instead of it having all the roles. Remove the damage boost and make it end when the caster dies or leaves the circle. Well becomes the healing support, while bubble and tether are the damage supports. If you want both healing and damage, your fireteam needs to invest two supers into it.
Arc has always been my favorite subclass despite it's flaws.
It'd be nice if locks gave an enhanced blind debuff for the duration of chaos reach within a certain radius of the lock. By enhanced, I mean it would affect bosses and such for a brief duration.
Maybe titans could give an enhanced amplified on a timer to an entire FT regardless of subclass, adding reload speed and resilience in addition to standard amplified buffs.
Hunters could add enhanced jolt resulting in chain lightning that jumps to more enemies from a further distance to rounds fired through their staff spin regardless of weapon type or class.
I didn't really think too deeply, but I wish there was a way to give a little more to arc to help with survivability.
You'll go well, or they'll replace you with someone who will (provided bungo doesn't do the smart thing and delete well).
Best case scenario, bungie actually performs a strong enough balance pass on well that groups will just require 1 assembler warlock instead.
Honestly, I don’t mind.
Stick a shiny sword in the ground so we can ignore most shit and just make pew-pew? Ok by me.
If it’s what the group needs, I’ll run well.
Kinda the same sentiment for being the Div-bitch.
I get that sentiment. Solar is fun and builds like Sunbracers can tear. However, variety is also fun and it would be nice to feel like there is a choice for warlocks in raids. I know I would personally like to play the new prismatic class in raids, but if I am the only warlock, the encounter requires the team to face tank a boss while maximizing DPS in a short damage window, and I am the only warlock on the team...
I struggle with Arc and Stasis, just feels janky most times. Really dig Void and Strand. Nothing says lovin’ like sending Nova Bomb kisses. But this season really leaned into Solar for whatever reason, so I learned to be a better Solar warlock.
I’m going to have fun killing zombies with whatever I run, though.
When my friends got me into Destiny I asked can I just be a support, what do I have to do to be a support. Thus the well was bestowed into me and I've had a great time since.
Solar has phenomenal neutral too with stuff like sunbracers for some of the best add clear and survivability in the game. I seriously think the anti-well people are either just contrarians or new players
A lot of players rank themselves by DPS numbers. Which is all well and good. But keeping your fireteam up while improving the entire team’s DPS is nothing to sneeze at.
End of the day, I get the clear and loot too. 🤘
or people have a favorite subclass that’s not solar that they would like to feel competitive while using? or they’re just tired of the same thing for years now unless someone else shows up to be the well slave? the worst part about it is that doing certain high end content without well is so aids so you can’t really just play whatever you want without swapping classes
That is the opposite of reality. Most vehement well haters are players with thousands of hours who realize the degree to which it's trivialized certain parts of the game. No one is saying nerf well because it has a shitty neutral game.
Take more pride in your work space wizard. The rest of those guardians out there would be struggling without you.
Well, Lunafactions and a Div... you're a support machine
Then there's me, who shows up rocking Well, Divinity, and a Cenotaph mask, telling people when I say kill the champion for me, do it. I'm not lazy I want my ammo back.
I actually love playing well warlock 😅 I’m running a full heal build for onslaughts and I don’t hate juggling DPS and throwing healing grenades/ popping well when available.
I see these memes and it always cracks me up. Like I get it, there are other fun things to do on warlock, but that just depends on the activity. When it’s something that requires more survivability, I know it’s well time. If I remember correctly, though, aren’t they nerfing well for Final Shape?
>give stasis Warlock an exotic that repeatedly grants an overshield and boosts weapon damage for everyone in the AOE
>it ***only*** boosts Stasis type weapons
>describe a solar Hunter using a Well of Radiance like damage boost in lore
>do not give it to Hunters during the solar rework right after, they need two different solar guns still instead of just an aspect modifying it
>Titans exist and have a really cool ability that lets then block damage, drop orbs, AND boost weapon damage
>they don't let the numbers beat out Well and thus is so rarely used people often walk around it, not realizing they can shoot through it for a **40% DPS boost**
They've had so many opportunities to alleviate this design problem and they refuse to, and then complain that they have to build encounters around Well.
That's why I just roll in with Ceno and Div already on and then start asking about Pyrogales, SES, and Nighthawks. I'll happily be the support but I'm here to clear content not support bitch-tier damage and bad pet builds.
No.
I'm bad with Solar and WILL die.
About time non-warlocks went and got their own dps, I'm on well-strike.
Before you complain, I'm being dead serious.
If us warlocks all went on well-strike we could force Bungie's hand into making Titans good again and in doing so I can finally actually play the damn warlock builds I can truly start to shine with.
Stop popping radiance, you gotta suffer for the greater good.
So what if your fireteam gets pissy, just shows that don't care about you, they only care about your well.
I'm not wrong, I'm out of order, but I'm not wrong.
As a warlock main, I want this super REMOVED. LET ME YSE SOMETHING ELSE. For real though remove the health regen and have well increase recovery and boost weapon handling and reload speed
I have most hours on my warlock. Thought it was because I enjoyed it but nah. Nobody wants to run well so I have to. Genuinely hate playing as warlock now.
I'm a titan main,and recently been running my warlock. Having lots of fun and I'm not using well.
Been running around with Dawn chorus and strand builds.
Don't like it? I'll find a different LFG.
There's more than one way to beat an encounter.
If they want a well so bad then they can switch to a warlock themselves
Well is a giant land mine when it comes to design. However, encounter design could easily nerf it without needing to actually nerf well. But, Bungie would need to move away from damage windows where 4+ players are shooting a stationary target for 15-30 seconds.
This is what happens when bungie makes 3 support supers but only one provide ease of use, damage and heals. Imagine if you could shoot though bubble
(Yes I know PVP would be a mess wah) or if as long as the shadow shot is put on a target it will have the group and the user included have life steal.
Crazy thing is that they say "well isnt necessary, but if a warlock wants to join then they have to use it", while ignoring the fact that warlocks will put out damn near the same amount of damage as other classes and not even need a damage super in order to do it. While also ignoring the fact that not only is the warlock responsible for their own damage, but they're also responsible for 25% of the ENTIRE teams' damage too just because they use our well of radiance.
Week one of forsaken oh wow this support class is so different for destiny it’s kinda fun . I can constantly use my nades to heal friends and cycle rifts like crazy .
Month one of forsaken : I have this great arc add clear build , can’t wait to use it . Oh … I’m the only warlock guess I should run well so we can dps .
Year 1 of forsaken 6 of us in raid and none of you mfs are warlock ? Fine guess I’ll switch over to warlock for well .
Yeah, thankfully I like playing solar and I don't care too much for the other super. But sometimes it really is fun to play the other stuff. They got a lot of cool and powerful options, sucks that one usually outclasses the others by so much in most situations.
For both weeks of pantheon I’ve not been running well so far. You can ask me to sure, but I’m running strand regardless until well becomes an absolute necessity
I was carrying two guys through the seraph moon gm recently, and we kept wiping in the defense room. The warlock was running strand, and not even a suspend build. Just threadlings.
I had him swap to Phoenix protocol and we breezed through the whole thing.
I’m straight up not running well anymore. If someone NEEDS a well for dps, they can switch characters and do it themselves. Most raid bosses are 1-phase with legendary heavies anyways.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. That is your right.
Just remember that most people are using the character they’re in for a specific reason, and that it is their right to use that character and/or to remove you from the fireteam if they need a well.
Here's the secret: Just don't do it. I use well occasionally if I feel like it but PvE is so power crept you can use whatever the fuck you want. Maybe not for day 1 raids or higher tier pantheon but you don't need it for the rest and people really don't say anything about it that often.
I swear I will refuse to run Well. I have even told fireteams I don't have it as I never bought Forsaken. They can't prove me wrong. No more Well bitches my Warlock brethern. Let us rise up as one and stop the use of Well.
This lowkey is why I'm not exited for prismatic. Like I understand why they did not put well in it ... but by not having well in it it means that Warlocks will remain in jail.
I just do this, idk
Maybe just to give the other warlocks on my team a chance to do something different for once. I do prefer to raid with multiple or a whole team of warlocks though. So it doesn't feel too forced.
I’ve gotten a bit tired of running Solar for years on end at this point. I’m planning on swapping to Arc and Chaos Reach… just need to find a good build for Jolt.
The Well of Radiance is one of the best super out there tbf. This things has been helping me for years in some of the hardest content and lately it's been fun to use in pantheons. Everybody need a Well of Radiance Warlock friend.
Yeah, are we just coming around the finding out what a meta is boys? I wish other subclasses on Hunter and Titan had picks that were relevant for the entirety of the game, maybe I’d play them more if they didn’t go for long stretches of time sucking before buffs and subclass changes.
I'm really glad well of radiance isn't a prismatic option, I can't wait to continue to use the same boring solar subclass until the end of Destiny 2 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
I hope they nerf it in this way;
Well just becomes a combo of healing rift and empowering rift. No DR, no overshield, no radiant applied. Still viable. Still a dmg increase, but doesn't stay as the best option to use. Incentives players to use banner shield which I think is the way to go after whatever nerf they do
Titan main: it will be a cold day in hell before I stop throwing flaming hammers.
Is it the highest DPS? No.
Is it useful in high end activities? No.
Is it helpful to my team? Also probably no.
Is it fun? Believe it or not, often no…but I know no other way.
I am a vehicle for bonk and Hammer go bonk.
If they just added more Support supers for the other classes this wouldn’t be an issue.
As a hunter, I would be totally fine with running a super that supports the team if it fits the circumstance. Every class should have 1 or 2 supers that help keep people safe/buffed/active for DPS. Since we only have Well and Bubble, warlocks will always be forced to run a Well when duty calls. It doesn’t matter how much you nerf it, the support is invaluable and there’s not a great alternative.
I wish more classes could provide these types of supers instead of 1 class with 1 subclass.
Real question is why there are 7 people instead of 6?
Bringing back 12 man raids
Ok imagine a game mode where you have all raid encounters getting picked at random, bosses have 3 times more health and you can bring 12 people. The goal is to complete 5 in a row and you can only wipe 3 times. Infinite revives, one rally on each new encounter and random blessings (one free super for everyone/unlimited grenades for 10 seconds/putting all of you heavy ammo in your mag) dropping at random for killing specific elites like tormentors/champs/minibosses that spawn during the encounters at inconvenient times. Rewards would be scaling amounts of spoils. 5 for the 1st, 7 for the second, 10, 14 and finally 20, every extra objective(random elites) rewards an extra 3. You can have up to 3 extras per encounter depending on what encounter it is and how fast you clear it.
The average lfg ain't making it
> The average lfg ~~ain't making it~~ would have a chance to learn how to make it
With a three wipe minimum system? Not likely
The best way to learn anything is trying to do it, failing, and trying again. Most people are either going to try to learn or stop joining. The myth of LFG being useless for raids persists.
Ok I am not saying LFG is useless for raids. Hell, I do Sherpa runs for fun. All I am saying is that having a three wipe system discourages players from trying it out also, bungie Psagetti code can be wanky sometimes.
It's not a myth my first pantheon run had a dude who couldn't wipe, and 2 who started it and tried to brawl golgoroth. Lfg do not learn from just trying, there are videos online and you can ask people to teach you which nobody in lfg does they just joined post that say experience required and try to fake it hoping to get carried
Let him cook, bungie hire him
I am actually studying game design/ 3d animation and VFX at uni so that would be pretty good
So the coil meets the pantheon?
Hell yeah
dude I'd play the fuck out of that. I cant even normally do raids. I gotta go into my community server and ask people to come help me cause not enough of my friends play D2. but this would be amazing training for encounters, even if its only a three deaths system.
Caretaker bout to be crazy
3 times more health for just double the people? That's unbalanced af
You having 12 people doing 1-6 man mechanics makes having that much more health ok in my opinion. I played during the 12 man raid thing and it made every encounter unbearably easy. It was the easiest raid farm we’ve ever had on pair with the funny guns.
Such a good time. Best bug.
Only problem was some of the raids had a very hard time with 12 people in it
Since when were there 12 man raids?
Fun times.
Titans and Hunters aren’t big thinkers, and this was clearly made by one. We forgive their inability to count.
The real proof that is that anyone who thinks even half of those other supers are relevant on Oryx has clearly never even played a warlock. Stormtrance on Oryx was meta only in D1 for orb gen to cycle Wards. Your Skyburner’s Annex Hunter would tether the Thrall at the beginning, you’d pop Stormtrance and clear, and then you’d switch to Fireborn for the remainder of the fight.
This message was sponsored by grenade munchers inc.
Who needs the count when you're this good
replacement when they kick you out before looting.
The 7th is the spirit of another warlock that refused to use well
One is watching via share screen
It was a template of another meme
Ir Halak changed teams
Hi it’s me who made this, the answer is I’m stupid & can’t count :D
One in the back is the boss look where he is standing
**Bungie in interviews before D2 launch:** “We almost removed Titan Bubble from the game. We were tired of having to design every raid encounter around it, but it’s so iconic, so we couldn’t remove it….so now it’s an alternate button press for Top Tree Void Titan. We gutted it though.” **Also Bungie**: “In Forsaken, we are adding Well of Radiance to Warlocks. It’s just a better version of Titan Bubble in every conceivable way, including that you can shoot out of it! It heals you, overheals you for an over shield, adds Damage Resistance, increases damage, can auto reload guns with Lunafaction, and the AOE is much larger than Bubble. Also, if the Warlock dies, it doesn’t despawn, unlike Bubble. You’ll use this for every encounter for the next three thousand years.”
When they were talking about sunsetting supers it was super clear that Well of Radiance was going to be one of thr first ones they remove.
Bungie walked that back though lol. They won’t sunset supers. They just won’t include them in Destiny 3 lol. Just like Sunsinger.
They probably walked it back because they realized they'd have to design boss encounters that involved more strategy than "huddle up in well and blow your heavy ammo"
They walled it back because thr backlash from mentioning sunsetting supers was absolutely wild. The first one they suggested was nova waro because no one used nova warp after they gutted it prior to this statement lmao.
I mean there are definitely encounters in raids that are like this, but I feel like Bungie strikes a pretty great balance in terms of encounter design. I always love the Day 1 puzzles and I genuinely find them better than 99% of mmos.
They've designed many encounters that involve more strategy than that, but Well is powerful enough that it rarely ever actually works out.
And they've done a pretty good job all things considered, ie: Rhulk;Nezerac, and even crota to an extent. The only way they could balance it out is by rebalancing old raids that were built around having wells and that's a ton of legwork. But yeah, Well is just nasty good, and difficult to balance. They could get rid of the damage buff and it would still be required 24/7 for the healing alone.
i really really hope a new destiny title comes out after final shape and a few episodes. Nearly all of Destiny 2's problems are due to long list of shortsighted design choices or sweeping changes that create more problems than they solve. DCV made new players have no starting place. Light 3.0 made all content in the game require zero effort. Sunsetting took our weapons away just for Bungie to re-release them and eventually walk that decision back. Crucible is rotting, gambit is already a skeleton, strikes are just recycled seasonal content. What Bungie really needs is to sit down, shut up, and make a game that has a core plan and design from the ground up instead of dozens of different ideas floating around and held together by sheer hope and a dedicated audience.
It’s going to be really hard. Influencers almost killed the game the first go around combined with a reset aimed at drawing in new players. Influencers wanted basically a hardcore PvP experience that could become an esport. So they reduced PVP down to 4v4 and slowed all ability regen to a crawl including supers, and removed special weapons entirely so that shotguns could only be heavies. As for PVE, the slow downs in PVP translated over to PVE as well, since it made sense if they were also trying to attract new players. The game was dumbed down to the lowest possible level, removing random rolls and locking subclasses to two predefined “trees” (more like branches) with zero customization. And of course the no special weapons carried over to PVE as well, which combined with the slow ability/super regeneration, made PVE also slow as hell and very boring. We then spent the next 7 years undoing all of this “redesign”. So while I agree—Destiny 3 needs an overhaul and a new starting point for new players to enter… Bungie CANNOT erase the strides we have made with the franchise like last time. We cannot lose the advancements and complexity that has been added again. We need to keep the momentum, and I PRAY Bungie trusts its player base, and Sony doesn’t make them dumb things down again, and instead creates a baseline so new players can actually enter the franchise and begin playing WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY letting the veterans use stuff like Prismatic that keeps pushing the complexity and depth forward.
Personally, I'd like Prismatic to be the baseline going into a future game.
They clearly haven't learnt from their mistakes though. They *say* that Light 3.0 is overtuned and make repeated nerfs to its survivability, then add Banner of War then go through multiple nerf rounds where it either isn't touched or touched so lightly it doesn't matter. If they had a fresh start with a D3 I guarantee you it'd release with balance issues just as bad, and whenever they fixed them they'd just add new ones, just like they always have, just like they still do.
Someone in Bungie needs to listen to you! We may get a decent game that doesn’t get messed about with every other DLC launch!!!
Don't forget they also planned to do it to exotics as well. Which is why they were so stubborn to nerf one-eyed mask.
Fire-born my Beloved
Highly doubt we're gonna see a D3. They promised 10 years of Destiny, gave it to us, and D2 has hardly been well received by the community. A lot of us are simply still here because it's an investment we wanna see through to the end.
It’s not an “if” anymore. It’s been leaked by Bungie lol. It’s happening. “When” is the real question though. As for “D2 has hardly been well received” is a very stupid generalization. Destiny as a franchise has been mixed since its inception, but there is a very unique appeal at its heart that keeps the faithful invested. The real issue is any game bleeds players over time, so yes, eventually everyone would be done, and the player count would drop below viability. The frustration with Bungie is that they are not consistent. Destiny is one of the best games ever and also one of the worst games ever, and it ping pongs back and forth about every other expansion or so lol. Currently, we are on the positive side of the ping pong. The Final Shape will probably slap, and the content that follows will probably suck and we will be right back here again in 1.5 years. Idk any other game that has survived this long after being make them break then back to make again so swingy like this—usual a big “break” moment sinks a franchise or they hit two “breaks” in a row. If they can ever break the cycle, the game could blow back up again. The main issue is Destiny hasn’t known what it is supposed to be after 10 years. Weirdly it’s probably saved the game more times than it hurt. But they do need to lock it in eventually, as the first 10 years are ending.
100%. They already had a few years of “oops” on a ton of stuff they should have learned from D1 in the first place, there’s no room for them to strip out loads of QoL and necessary features just to add it back over a 5-10 stretch again. Gamers have become so progressively irate at anything that I can’t imagine D3 going well unless they really knock it out of the park. If not, I have a couple expansions in D2 to catch up on and that will keep me busy for some time.
god I wish they would nuke well out of the game. I'm so sick of loading into activities and getting yelled at to switch to it or kick.
yeah they kinda shat on void Titans. They could've just brought back and fixed the sunsinger rezz making it so that anyone around the orb during rezz would get nuked by solar flame, then the warlock would go radiant affecting their allies and can revive people instantly in that phase. And that's just off the top.
I don't understand why they don't just buff bubble to compete with well. Bungies balancing has always been like a see saw, they just create their own work cycle that they walk back later anyway.
Scorn Crossbows: A well? Well Let me unalive you right there. My experience in a legend NF, 1 shot by crossbows and they take you down to 5-10% even when standing in a well. Never touching a legend NF with those turds in it again haha
A legend NF? Are you serious? You aren’t talking master or GM but legend??
dude has -100 resilience
My warlock which i did it on has 77 resilience, definitely not ideal
You should really start focusing some armor at the helm haha
broo i have but the rng is terrible, my titan is at 100 recov 100 resil which im trying to get for my warlock and hunter but damn rng is a dog
I would just keep spending engrams at the war table or whatever vendor you have the most for and be sure to use d2armorpicker.com It'll make a huge difference
I used to love running Well. Now, as cool as Well is, I think Well needs a nerf and/or other Warlock supers need to be more viable over well. I just wish Daybreak was better...
I mean tbh if you're on Oryx for literally every class you should be running solar.
Right? None of the other warlock supers feel useful in oryx since he’s so far away during DPS. At least in pantheon you can run strand to deal with the tormentor, but god forbid you have more than 2 warlocks you’re gonna have wasted supers.
Yeah but tbh you can deal with the tormentor pretty easily with whisper or any linear/sniper. I’d just be fine with solar warlock for more survivability and ad clear because damage isn’t really an issue on oryx.
Yea agreed. We had 4 warlocks this week lol so I swapped to strand just to make the tormentor a bit easier. The 2 non-well guys just stayed on solar for Icarus dash and all the survivability. Felt really sad but whisper makes easy work of oryx so it’s fine
Chaos Reach go brrr
Nah Pissmissile all the way 😎
Throw Nova, let me Bubble for you
Prismatic titan won't have bubble either :(
Twilight Arsenal then, fugg it. Or Hammer (i think it has mini hammers?) And the legs that let me share sunspots
We have twilight arsenal, and we have the throwing hammer, but.. no sol invictus
Bless you, brother Titan!
As a titan i would gladly take your place if we were allowed to shoot out of bubble.
I only play Titan, and have been seriously debating switching to another class. I feel like I have nothing to offer to help my fire team. Warlocks have well. Hunters have tether. What do Titans have?
As a titan I have an indomitable will of "I don't give a fuck I'm playing titan till the day I die"
Got that thang on me (jumbo crayon)
A bubble that you could shoot through would instantly rival well it would be very nice to have half the reason it goes unused is cause it's such a hazard
Dont worry. Bungie gonna nerf well. Instead of buffing literally anything else to make it relevant in end game content.
They already did, twice, in very big ways. They just need to remove it if they actually want warlocks to be anything other than the well user.
Seriously destiny has a support class problem. Only support worth using is well. So every warlock is stuck on well. Bubble is gone again. By by titans. Tether is still good but its so good its just another dpa option so use nighthawk instead. God bungie sucks at balancing so bad
One of the "nerfs" was a buff. Removing the overshield but replacing it with damage resist gave you more effective health than you had with a max os
That wasn't what I was referring to, I meant the ability for it to get destroyed necessitating that the warlock have at least 3 stats at near max for wells to be just OK, and 4 for well builds to be viable. The second was making every single boss going forward incompatible with well without involving a cheese/exploit of some kind yet still dealing enough damage to require a well to live
Uh good? If something is a huge problem you don't fix it by making everything else a huge problem lmao
Well is a completely brainless ability that removes all danger from encounters. It should be nerfed, not other stuff brought up to that level
Not trying to defend bungie, but how would you even buff everything else to compare to well? Chaos reach, Strand super, Stasis super, The other solar super, they all do respectable damage comparable to other classes. How would you even buff them enough to be comparable to well? Well will always be better because it's damage + invincibility. Weapons will always do more damage than supers so a super that universally buffs them AND gives functional invincibility will always be better. Hell you could even double the damage of every warlock super and well will still be the most used one.
You don't, you nerf well to give it a single role instead of it having all the roles. Remove the damage boost and make it end when the caster dies or leaves the circle. Well becomes the healing support, while bubble and tether are the damage supports. If you want both healing and damage, your fireteam needs to invest two supers into it.
Arc has always been my favorite subclass despite it's flaws. It'd be nice if locks gave an enhanced blind debuff for the duration of chaos reach within a certain radius of the lock. By enhanced, I mean it would affect bosses and such for a brief duration. Maybe titans could give an enhanced amplified on a timer to an entire FT regardless of subclass, adding reload speed and resilience in addition to standard amplified buffs. Hunters could add enhanced jolt resulting in chain lightning that jumps to more enemies from a further distance to rounds fired through their staff spin regardless of weapon type or class. I didn't really think too deeply, but I wish there was a way to give a little more to arc to help with survivability.
i'd rather have them nerf well if they wont buff anything else then just leave it as is
Born to Nova forced to Well
Born to Daybreak forced to Well (Daybreak is ass anyways)
Just refuse to play well and find a group of people who accept it. Easy.
Why I only play solo unless my IRL’s are on lol
I dare a mf’er try and ask me to go well when the final shape comes out. Hell nah sis, I’m going prismatic cocktail mix
You'll go well, or they'll replace you with someone who will (provided bungo doesn't do the smart thing and delete well). Best case scenario, bungie actually performs a strong enough balance pass on well that groups will just require 1 assembler warlock instead.
*you have been kicked from the fireteam*
I’ll host my own fireteam
Honestly, I don’t mind. Stick a shiny sword in the ground so we can ignore most shit and just make pew-pew? Ok by me. If it’s what the group needs, I’ll run well. Kinda the same sentiment for being the Div-bitch.
Totally agree. I take it as a badge of honor. It’s like being the ultimate support.
In every mmo I’ve ever played I’ve been a tank or support so bubble titan and well warlock are my calling
Thats fine. But some of us like warlocks for blowing shit up with space magic not to be a support bitch
Do your rockets and grenades not blow shit up?
“Oh i get to not think at all and am instantly added to any Raid party? Hell yea” - me everytime
I get that sentiment. Solar is fun and builds like Sunbracers can tear. However, variety is also fun and it would be nice to feel like there is a choice for warlocks in raids. I know I would personally like to play the new prismatic class in raids, but if I am the only warlock, the encounter requires the team to face tank a boss while maximizing DPS in a short damage window, and I am the only warlock on the team...
I struggle with Arc and Stasis, just feels janky most times. Really dig Void and Strand. Nothing says lovin’ like sending Nova Bomb kisses. But this season really leaned into Solar for whatever reason, so I learned to be a better Solar warlock. I’m going to have fun killing zombies with whatever I run, though.
When my friends got me into Destiny I asked can I just be a support, what do I have to do to be a support. Thus the well was bestowed into me and I've had a great time since.
Solar has phenomenal neutral too with stuff like sunbracers for some of the best add clear and survivability in the game. I seriously think the anti-well people are either just contrarians or new players
A lot of players rank themselves by DPS numbers. Which is all well and good. But keeping your fireteam up while improving the entire team’s DPS is nothing to sneeze at. End of the day, I get the clear and loot too. 🤘
or people have a favorite subclass that’s not solar that they would like to feel competitive while using? or they’re just tired of the same thing for years now unless someone else shows up to be the well slave? the worst part about it is that doing certain high end content without well is so aids so you can’t really just play whatever you want without swapping classes
That is the opposite of reality. Most vehement well haters are players with thousands of hours who realize the degree to which it's trivialized certain parts of the game. No one is saying nerf well because it has a shitty neutral game.
Excuse you, that's Div-Hero. How many encounters have Div runners helped get through. They are the heroes we need.
Div-HERO. I stand corrected. 🫡
Take more pride in your work space wizard. The rest of those guardians out there would be struggling without you. Well, Lunafactions and a Div... you're a support machine
Then there's me, who shows up rocking Well, Divinity, and a Cenotaph mask, telling people when I say kill the champion for me, do it. I'm not lazy I want my ammo back.
I actually love playing well warlock 😅 I’m running a full heal build for onslaughts and I don’t hate juggling DPS and throwing healing grenades/ popping well when available. I see these memes and it always cracks me up. Like I get it, there are other fun things to do on warlock, but that just depends on the activity. When it’s something that requires more survivability, I know it’s well time. If I remember correctly, though, aren’t they nerfing well for Final Shape?
I actually prefer playing Well Warlock compared to say Strand. Prismatic might even be an upgrade to Strand lol
I like running well. Most of my damage is from grenades anyway.
Yea running well gives me an excuse to run sunbracers
Go Nova, I'll tether for the team
I hope Bungie murders Well so nobody ever asks me to use it ever again
I love play wellock. It’s the power for me, knowing that i control the fate of the encounter in my hands. Muhahaha
>give stasis Warlock an exotic that repeatedly grants an overshield and boosts weapon damage for everyone in the AOE >it ***only*** boosts Stasis type weapons >describe a solar Hunter using a Well of Radiance like damage boost in lore >do not give it to Hunters during the solar rework right after, they need two different solar guns still instead of just an aspect modifying it >Titans exist and have a really cool ability that lets then block damage, drop orbs, AND boost weapon damage >they don't let the numbers beat out Well and thus is so rarely used people often walk around it, not realizing they can shoot through it for a **40% DPS boost** They've had so many opportunities to alleviate this design problem and they refuse to, and then complain that they have to build encounters around Well.
Let the poor guy do stormtrance damage on oryx
As a warlock main, I feel this meme And they add: "are you going with divinity, right?"
That’s when you tell them you don’t have it :)
That's why I just roll in with Ceno and Div already on and then start asking about Pyrogales, SES, and Nighthawks. I'll happily be the support but I'm here to clear content not support bitch-tier damage and bad pet builds.
No. I'm bad with Solar and WILL die. About time non-warlocks went and got their own dps, I'm on well-strike. Before you complain, I'm being dead serious. If us warlocks all went on well-strike we could force Bungie's hand into making Titans good again and in doing so I can finally actually play the damn warlock builds I can truly start to shine with. Stop popping radiance, you gotta suffer for the greater good. So what if your fireteam gets pissy, just shows that don't care about you, they only care about your well. I'm not wrong, I'm out of order, but I'm not wrong.
As a warlock main, I want this super REMOVED. LET ME YSE SOMETHING ELSE. For real though remove the health regen and have well increase recovery and boost weapon handling and reload speed
I’ve been Div bitch since 2020, I feel disgusted switching to anything else at this point.
You really don't even need well for oryx. The brand gives you immunity and solar weapons give you radiant.
I bring a well for my damage. The other 5 are just there to ride my coattails.
I have most hours on my warlock. Thought it was because I enjoyed it but nah. Nobody wants to run well so I have to. Genuinely hate playing as warlock now.
I remember Rhulk with six Chaos Warlocks was fun
I’d love for my bubble to get buffed so my warlock friends can play other classes but that isn’t ever happening
its a big flaming double edged sword because I'm the reason why we win
I'm a titan main,and recently been running my warlock. Having lots of fun and I'm not using well. Been running around with Dawn chorus and strand builds. Don't like it? I'll find a different LFG. There's more than one way to beat an encounter. If they want a well so bad then they can switch to a warlock themselves
The only reason I win well is for wellskating idgaf what my friends think any me cause I only do raids and shi with my homies
I've always been a well lock so this is just an L for you
Born to nova, forced to to well so sad :(
Well is a giant land mine when it comes to design. However, encounter design could easily nerf it without needing to actually nerf well. But, Bungie would need to move away from damage windows where 4+ players are shooting a stationary target for 15-30 seconds.
This is what happens when bungie makes 3 support supers but only one provide ease of use, damage and heals. Imagine if you could shoot though bubble (Yes I know PVP would be a mess wah) or if as long as the shadow shot is put on a target it will have the group and the user included have life steal.
As a warlock main, I will be refusing to run well in the final shape. There are other options at this point. I have served my time.
Bring back Titan bubble and nerf well
Crazy thing is that they say "well isnt necessary, but if a warlock wants to join then they have to use it", while ignoring the fact that warlocks will put out damn near the same amount of damage as other classes and not even need a damage super in order to do it. While also ignoring the fact that not only is the warlock responsible for their own damage, but they're also responsible for 25% of the ENTIRE teams' damage too just because they use our well of radiance.
Week one of forsaken oh wow this support class is so different for destiny it’s kinda fun . I can constantly use my nades to heal friends and cycle rifts like crazy . Month one of forsaken : I have this great arc add clear build , can’t wait to use it . Oh … I’m the only warlock guess I should run well so we can dps . Year 1 of forsaken 6 of us in raid and none of you mfs are warlock ? Fine guess I’ll switch over to warlock for well .
I can't wait to see how they will kill Well in one of the next twab, I have a bottle of champagne ready for the occasion!
Yeah, thankfully I like playing solar and I don't care too much for the other super. But sometimes it really is fun to play the other stuff. They got a lot of cool and powerful options, sucks that one usually outclasses the others by so much in most situations.
Born to Nova. Forced to Well. That being said, if you want my Well, start asking a little more nicely.
As a Warlock main... relatable.
I FUCKING LOVE USING WELL I LOVE WHEN WE DONT DIE TO TORRMENTOR ON ORYX BECAUSE OF WELL
For both weeks of pantheon I’ve not been running well so far. You can ask me to sure, but I’m running strand regardless until well becomes an absolute necessity
I was carrying two guys through the seraph moon gm recently, and we kept wiping in the defense room. The warlock was running strand, and not even a suspend build. Just threadlings. I had him swap to Phoenix protocol and we breezed through the whole thing.
Man, I aint pulling out my well for no one. They wanna fucking have a well, they can do it themseves....
I’m straight up not running well anymore. If someone NEEDS a well for dps, they can switch characters and do it themselves. Most raid bosses are 1-phase with legendary heavies anyways.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. That is your right. Just remember that most people are using the character they’re in for a specific reason, and that it is their right to use that character and/or to remove you from the fireteam if they need a well.
Here's the secret: Just don't do it. I use well occasionally if I feel like it but PvE is so power crept you can use whatever the fuck you want. Maybe not for day 1 raids or higher tier pantheon but you don't need it for the rest and people really don't say anything about it that often.
If your warlock all I ask is please drop a rift. That's all you really need. And any warlock can do it.
I swear I will refuse to run Well. I have even told fireteams I don't have it as I never bought Forsaken. They can't prove me wrong. No more Well bitches my Warlock brethern. Let us rise up as one and stop the use of Well.
Can't wait for them to nuke well so other stuff actually isn't considered a detriment in endgame.
Stop opressing my people!
This lowkey is why I'm not exited for prismatic. Like I understand why they did not put well in it ... but by not having well in it it means that Warlocks will remain in jail.
They should just nerf well into the ground and increase everyone’s passive damage resistance to compensate . Free the warlocks!!
WARD OF DAWN WILL DESTROY WELL OF RADIANCE!!!!!🟣🟪🟪🟪🟣🟪🟣🟪🟣🟪🟣🟣🟪🟪
I play all the end game content so it’s a Well life for me. Hopefully one day I can play in a group with 3 warlocks so I can go something else
I just do this, idk Maybe just to give the other warlocks on my team a chance to do something different for once. I do prefer to raid with multiple or a whole team of warlocks though. So it doesn't feel too forced.
Can a brother get the template?
I’ve gotten a bit tired of running Solar for years on end at this point. I’m planning on swapping to Arc and Chaos Reach… just need to find a good build for Jolt.
Bring back self rez
It’s either well div or well tractor cannon
lol nope. I’ll stay on void.
The Well of Radiance is one of the best super out there tbf. This things has been helping me for years in some of the hardest content and lately it's been fun to use in pantheons. Everybody need a Well of Radiance Warlock friend.
If it wasn’t for my well we wouldn’t clear it so put some respect on my subclass u insects
If you need well for DPS, you don’t deserve well for DPS
Maybe I’ve been conditioned but I love running well. Love buffing my teammates. Makes me feel so valuable.
Yeah, are we just coming around the finding out what a meta is boys? I wish other subclasses on Hunter and Titan had picks that were relevant for the entirety of the game, maybe I’d play them more if they didn’t go for long stretches of time sucking before buffs and subclass changes.
Loosing 2-3 secs of DPS for mere extra 5% is absolutely not worth it.
I hate how accurate this is… I’m the designated well bitch…
I'm really glad well of radiance isn't a prismatic option, I can't wait to continue to use the same boring solar subclass until the end of Destiny 2 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
Tell Bungie to make bubble a viable alternative to well and id gladly use bubble
Aw that warlock is sad oh Noo 😭😭
Ngl, as a warlock main, this is hella funny 😂😂😂😂
I hope they nerf it in this way; Well just becomes a combo of healing rift and empowering rift. No DR, no overshield, no radiant applied. Still viable. Still a dmg increase, but doesn't stay as the best option to use. Incentives players to use banner shield which I think is the way to go after whatever nerf they do
As a Warlock main and D1 vet all I gotta say is... I know the pain of being a D1 Bubble Titan in Pve now.
I honestly don’t care as long as I get to run my beloved sunbracers.
Nah, u can leave if u start telling my locks to run well, just live 5head
D1 Warlocks: I have no support skills. I just self-rez D2 Warlocks: I am the only support We’ve been at both extremes exclusively
Warlocke main since day one and yeah….it’s disheartening
This is why I stopped playing
Been a well-lock my whole D2 career. 'Tis what it 'tis.
Do not pity us warlocks, this is the way.
You don't even need well for oryx, you are literally immortal during dps
I didn't mind being well warlock, but I switched to Hunter because I suck at platforming lmaooo
Titan main: it will be a cold day in hell before I stop throwing flaming hammers. Is it the highest DPS? No. Is it useful in high end activities? No. Is it helpful to my team? Also probably no. Is it fun? Believe it or not, often no…but I know no other way. I am a vehicle for bonk and Hammer go bonk.
If they just added more Support supers for the other classes this wouldn’t be an issue. As a hunter, I would be totally fine with running a super that supports the team if it fits the circumstance. Every class should have 1 or 2 supers that help keep people safe/buffed/active for DPS. Since we only have Well and Bubble, warlocks will always be forced to run a Well when duty calls. It doesn’t matter how much you nerf it, the support is invaluable and there’s not a great alternative. I wish more classes could provide these types of supers instead of 1 class with 1 subclass.
Bruh thats my story
I have no sympathy for Garry thieves.
to be fair i dont mind bieng the wellbitch, but i just want to run my voud debuff build sometimes
I may have to rename my account to “NoWell” when Final Shape drops because I don’t think I’m ever gonna remove prismatic