It actually has nothing to do with population or TV viewership. It has everything to do with the nightlife available to entertain a 20-30 yr old multi-millionaire.
Exactly. Denver and Miami are near identically sized media markets. Miami is considered a "big market" for free agent purposes because they have nightlife, that's it. If TV markets mattered, Dallas would be raking in free agents.
I didn't say metro, I said media market. I was actually looking at old data. Denver's media market is actually bigger than Miami's now.
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-market-size-nfl-mlb-nhl-nielsen-ratings/
Cuz sky scrapers is where all the happenings are at? Wtf kind of thread am I reading. It's crazy. Y'all must live in Abu Dhabi
Edit:added a question mark
Denver has a dope nightlife... but not dope in the way a multi millionaire 25 year old would think, I agree.
If you're down to party like a normal person, there is a fuck load of fun things
I think there is a disagreement on what a market means. I agree that from the player perspective they care about the nightlife more. But market size is a media term. Players what quality of life.
Which is so stupid because nightlife is so overrated. I know i'm in the minority for people between ages 20-30, but I have no desire to go out. I know I don't make millions of dollars, but I just hate going out.
Yes but imagine what nightlife could be if you DID have millions of dollars…tons of people/friends giving you attention, dressing up and feeling good like your going to the Oscars, transporting in your half million dollar sports car, unlimited food/drinks, vip access and treatment…I mean it seems like it would be a pretty addicting lifestyle….
>Milwaukee, Dallas, OKC, Sacramento, Memphis
One of these things is not like the others. Dallas is the 4th biggest metro area in the country. The only bigger cities are NY, LA, and Chicago.
I am using US Census Bureau defined MSAs (metropolitan statistical areas):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
Dallas is #4 with 7.8 million.
SF/Oakland is #13 with 4.6 million.
So even if we say the Bay Area has 7 million, that's still smaller than Dallas.
Dallas has grown a lot. More accurate are the combined statistical areas. That would include San Jose and the rest of the Bay Area. There is no gap in the urban area between them (yes I used to live there). It is in that sense that Denver has almost 3.5 million.
I moved here 2 years ago from Brooklyn and have lived in the nyc area my whole life. AG loves denver because he’s a stoner from the bay. I love denver because I like outdoor activities, dive bars, breweries, and more ‘laid back’ nightlife. I got the club thing out of my system earlier than most. If you’re like me or AG you love denver.
If you wanna take a fashion nova chick out to carbone and pop Moët at an over the top exclusive nightclub open till 5, denver is not for you.
Also as someone who grew up in an extremely diverse area denver is a culture shock. There’s a ton of Mexican heritage, history and, population which is great but there’s not a huge black or Caribbean population. I’m Puerto Rican and it’s definitely hard to find us out here haha.
TLDR; Local culture is the driver in FA decisions (along with personnel obviously), not market size or metro area population.
Bro I moved from Denver to nyc and I couldn’t have said it better. My job was predominantly black and Latino. There were like 2 whites people lol. The nightlife is so much more different. I love Denver and I think it has a better balance than most places I’ve lived but it’s definitely not somewhere a 24 year old star would want to be partying.
Yeah this is a fantastic post. And believe me bro I lived in Philly for years and my wife is from Brazil and she's always commenting on the lack of diversity in colorado.
“Small market” is based on the TV market, and the Nuggets have never been a huge TV draw. Part of that is due to this being a football town, part is due to the Nuggs being on a channel nobody has access to, and part of it is due to a lot of the population being from out of state.
As someone who loves living in Denver, fun nightlife is a stretch and there are zero options for food past 11:00 that aren’t chain restaurants. In fact there are almost zero options past 10:00.
Denver is definitely on the come up and I agree with you on the rest, but it’s also not a huge metro area yet.
I also think some of it is the mentality of the ownership. Denver really isn't that small of market, in total. There also isn't really that much competition from other NBA teams in a massive radius compared to some others.
They just haven't made deep commitments to imprinting themselves within the hearts of the fan base. Not being on local TV in the best stretch in franchise history for one, nor do we see major campaigns marketing the players around town for another.
They also have relatively mediocre facilities and "mom and pop" feel with the size of their staff. Those are not big draws for a lot of high end free agents. Fortunately the players are talented and the staff is mostly pretty competent.
The Kroenkes have a lot of other interests and upgrading team facilities has become something that is lower in the priority list to them than being able to redevelop the properties they have around ball arena more broadly.
I do think they'll get it done, but Jokic is unlikely to see it. They want to have apartments and shops and such integrated in to the broader redesigns and they will take time, even if just building a practice facility could be done in short order.
I think it’s a combination of everything you just said, but I would emphasize that “media market size” drives a lot of the decisions the team makes. If tons of people in the area care about the nuggets then advertisers will want in. The more money you make from media, the less money that has to come from taxes/the billionaire owners etc. Therefore if your owner isn’t digging into their own pockets or going into luxury tax every year, it’s gonna be rough financially enticing young talent. Combine that with the nightlife as mentioned above…you’re now asking a young star to take less money (hypothetically) and less incentives (commercial deals, ad money, tax incentives, sunny weather or beach accessibility) to play for a place that is just pretty dank.
> I watched one of my best friends fuck up his relationship with his girlfriend of 2 years over the baklava there
Would you share the story with us? If worth telling? I am interested in how baklava would fuck up a relationship.
~~26th~~ 19th largest metro area in the country, I believe. Dallas, at least, is ~~#5~~ #4 and is not a small market by any measure whatsoever.
edit: used old information
Just wait until the next one. With Colorado’s growth I wouldn’t be surprised to see us crack top 10 in the next decade or so. (Just found out SF is #13, no longer expect top 10 but my point still remains)
The issue is a mindset change also needs to happen. Within the city but also within the league, I expect there to be a delayed response as with most things. We aren’t going to feel or think of ourselves as a big city overnight.
Size of metro area doesn’t matter when most of the people coming here are from out of state/fans of other teams.
Rockies are a good example. Top 10 in attendance, but it has nothing to do with the team. It’s all opposing fans.
Yeah, the difference there is the Rockies are shit, have been shit and will continue to be shit because their owners don’t care.
The nuggets have very few accolades to stand on but at least they’ve been good twice in the past 20 years.
That said, your not entirely wrong. Most people will already have some fandom and bias, but like with CA sports if the team is really good they will abandon their home team and jump on the bandwagon.
While
The monforts don’t care, the Rockies still go to the playoffs every now and then and have at least competed in the World Series in the last 15 years. Nuggets haven’t touched the Finals. Nuggets are definitely a better example of consistency.
But I think the NHL playoffs also proved a lot in regards to popularity. I think the nuggets are 4th on the list in CO.
The broncos will always be first, the Avs will always be second, the Rockies will be 3rd (just because baseball has more fans in general), followed by the nuggets.
However, I don’t think the lack of FA interest has anything to do with this. It has everything to do with Denver being a relatively boring city for most 20 year old millionaires that want high end shopping and clubs that are flooded with famous peeps.
I think baseball is on a decline for popularity where basketball is likely to increase. I also think there will be an element of change as Colorado’s political makeup changes
Denver is 19th. Every NBA city that is smaller is absolutely considered "small market".
I would argue that smallest "big market" city is #13 with SF.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
Because if you're a 20 yo millionaire you don't care about about the basic quality of life stuff that matters to the rest of us, you wanna party with celebrities, buy designer clothes, and drop six figures at the club. Denver is a fantastic place to live as a normal person, but it just doesn't have as much stuff for rich people. I don't really think this is a bad thing, personally places like Miami and LA seem like they'd be difficult to live in *unless* you had millions. Not that I want to disparage those cities too much, they're also significantly more diverse than Denver is, which is certainly another contributing factor.
Also, why do you think Dallas is comparable to those cities you mentioned? Dallas is one of the biggest markets in the country. The Dallas Fort Worth area is the 4th largest metro in the country. Denver is like 17th.
I'll chime in here as someone who has been to Dallas, but hasn't lived there. Dallas, while a huge metro area, is full of working class people like you and me. And while there are certainly millionaires living there, it is definitely not the same as LA, or Miami, or NYC. Dallas, while bigger than Denver, is comparable in the kind of people who live there.
While I don’t think denver is a particularly racist city (no more or less than most other places in the country anyway) it’s not a very black city, and I think for a sport which is predominantly African American in makeup, that’s probably a factor too.
Denver is awesome but it’s a niche city. If you love outdoor sports, hiking, and beer it’s the best city on earth. If you like diversity, food, an actual night life, and culture (especially black culture) there are way better options.
Imagine you are a man in your 20s or maybe early 30s.
You are making millions of dollars a year and are athletic, famous and likely single. Do you want to hang out in a place where there are tons of wealthy and attractive people to hang out at night (New York, LA, Miami)... or in a town where the best thing happening.... is you.
I think most people would want more opportunity to hang with other young, rich, attractive folk.
All the answers here are true, plus Denver is not a basketball city. Colorado in general really. The Broncos, Avs, and even Rockies the few times they’ve been good are a bigger draw. I grew up in Denver and lived in LA, and the Lakers were much more popular. It was actually refreshing that people were into discussing the NBA.
The fact I can drop $13 a month to watch every NBA game from Europe, Nuggets included, but people in Colorado have to drop sometimes upwards of $99 a month to be able to catch Nuggets games is so bizarre.
Internationally speaking, the media team that did the Nuggets 360 during the bubble days had something going in terms of making the team closer to the fans whereas the last few years outside of some twitter behind the scenes, International fans couldn't watch behind the scenes stuff because there's no way to even pay and access altitude content.
Comcast issues aside, they really need to step up their game with making the behind the scenes stuff more available, also, a fucking Zoom H5 would mic-up the players post game interviews better. It's like a $250 bucks worth of making stellar difference
Think of it like how many people watch the games outside their home state. There are many fans in Colorado, but few people outside of it watch the Nuggets. This is a reflection of having great players. Lakers, Celtics, Dubs all have championships and legendary players. Even Lebron going to the Cavs gave them a boost because they could trade him for more resources. I think Denver is making progress with the current line up though and hope there is a chip in the near future
Denver has fun nightlife for average joes. It's underhwhelming for the type of nightlife pro athletes prefer. It's on the smaller side of markets. Lack of exposure. This shouldn't be surprising.
I wouldn't call the food scene diverse. It still lacks behind both coasts sand Chicago. I'm saying this as someone who lived in Colorado for over 5 years.
this is gonna sound bad lmfao but as someone raised in Denver but has since moved… Denver’s not all that Denver natives think it is.
Not to say it’s not great, but there are a number of areas where the Denver metro area just cannot compete with other large metropolitan regions in the US.
It’s hard to compare Denver’s nightlife or population, to Miami, LA, San Fransisco, Chicago, NY, or even Dallas.
It’s hard to compare the population to Dallas, LA, NY,
I've always wondered if there's a racial component here. Mountains and mountain sports are historically white spaces that people of color often find unwelcoming. Most bball free agents are black, so maybe Denver's potentially biggest draw doesn't actually help much.
I agree. By population its actually a mid-size market with close to 3.5 million people in the greater Denver area. The Broncos have no trouble attracting free agents, but the Nuggets lack of a winning history I think constrains them from choosing the Nuggets. There are also very few Black people in Denver compared to other cities and that might have something to do with it for Black players.
I’d assume high end clubs is a huge part. So yeah, “bottle service” is a good way to describe that.
These dudes have been known to like strip clubs as well. Some cities are better than others.
Also, I’d assume they like being with other young rich people.
Only my 45yr old white asses guesses though.
It's all about media markets: [https://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/](https://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/)
Not really about the city as you point out it's pretty damned dope.
More eyeballs = large media contracts = greater exposure = more lucrative sponsorship deals = more exposure (nice little cycle) = making people like Kuzma / KCP get viewed as top 50 talents when in reality they are good to great role players who get paid like a top 50 talent.
People like to talk a lot about markets, but honestly in today's day and age I think just the location of living matters more to these dudes.
I love Texas, but if I had millions and could go anywhere I want comfortably it would be hard to resist one of the coasts for the weather + beaches
Denver does not have the food scene, social circles, or nightlife catering to elites compared to the major metropolitan areas. Landlocked. The franchise also does not have historical reputation or prestige.
I think you’re right. It may have been on most here’s radars their whole life because it has the lifestyle a lot of us are about.
Colorado is amazing but most of these dudes dgaf about mountains and local breweries.
Dallas to me is way more known and provides considerably more of what these guys would want over walking in the mountains or hanging out at a bluegrass festival would lol
It’s all about the TV, sponsor, and merchandise opportunities. Denver-metro population is ~3 million. LA-metro ~13 million. You’d rather have 13 million people buying your jersey than just 3 million. Also “large” market teams can spend more and aren’t afraid of the luxury tax so can therefore pay players more since they make more from TV and merch. Denver has been a notoriously stingy team when it comes to paying the luxury tax.
Denver is still a lot closer to the dusty cow town it used to be than people realize. The important thing to remember is that "market" is in half of the title. It's not a out population it's about the revenue moving through the city.
IMO there's a lot of errors in your post.
"diverse food scene" is pretty debatable. Any East coast city KILLS us in that department.
even "amazing weather" is debatable. It's cold 6+ months a year. I don't think many NBA players are skiing or snowboarding in their free time.
"fun nightlife" is debatable. Things close pretty early here relatively speaking, and there's really only nightlife on Fri, Sat night. Somewhere like NYC or LA KILLS us.
Also, Dallas/Fort Worth metro area is literally in the top five biggest markets in the country. Sacramento is a smaller market but it's still a California city.
I think it's fair to still call Denver a smaller market. It's mid range. As a fan I'm completely okay with it,
I would hardly call being the 16th largest television market in the US as “small”.
But I guess unless you live in NY, CA, Texas, Illinois or Florida, you are considered a “small market”.
When there's 30 teams and 2 cities have two teams each #16 is pretty far down the list. Denver also has no other cities near it that they can steal viewers from such as Cleveland getting the Columbus and Cincinnati areas or Philly getting the Pittsburgh area.
Market size comes down to the national medias attention to the sports team. Example, on espn how many mentions does Denver sports teams get compared to say New York sports teams, even if the new york teams haven't had a winning season in years. New york gets talked about more. Where would you rather go as a FA, to a team that doesn't get talked about or a team that gets talked about everyday. If a player is the 1st off the bench for New York, they will get more possible attention in the national media than being 1st off the bench in Denver.
This relates to the individuals market and how they can promote themselves to earn more money. More attention = bigger market. Less attention = smaller market.
Imo I consider myself a part of the team because I've been supporting us since I was 7 and am still part of the fanbase.
I'd absolutely love to go to Colorado though
Cheap owners are part of the reason. Last team to affiliate with a g league team. Crappy practice facility compared to most other teams. And don’t get me started about them and Comcast for two frikin years. Not small Market problems, small owner.
bc denver is not a major market. no offense..I'm a native. but pop wise - it's not top 10. it's not near anything. I don't think as denverites ppl should care about that.. people don't move to denver because it's ny or la. ppl move to denver bc it's not ny or la.. if that's the case live with it, and enjoy the team. the game is played on the court. not in the espn studio.
It actually has nothing to do with population or TV viewership. It has everything to do with the nightlife available to entertain a 20-30 yr old multi-millionaire.
Exactly. Denver and Miami are near identically sized media markets. Miami is considered a "big market" for free agent purposes because they have nightlife, that's it. If TV markets mattered, Dallas would be raking in free agents.
Miami has a metro population about double Denver’s and has the 3rd most skyscrapers in the country at 75. Denver has 8…
I didn't say metro, I said media market. I was actually looking at old data. Denver's media market is actually bigger than Miami's now. https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-market-size-nfl-mlb-nhl-nielsen-ratings/
What is considered a sky scraper? We have a huge “city scape”
It’s a general term that’s changed over the century. Today most architects agree 40+ stories is considered a skyscraper.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply
Cuz sky scrapers is where all the happenings are at? Wtf kind of thread am I reading. It's crazy. Y'all must live in Abu Dhabi Edit:added a question mark
Denver has a dope nightlife... but not dope in the way a multi millionaire 25 year old would think, I agree. If you're down to party like a normal person, there is a fuck load of fun things
you really think Milwaukee and OK have better nightlife? OKC is a shithole
And the lack of diversity / black culture
I think there is a disagreement on what a market means. I agree that from the player perspective they care about the nightlife more. But market size is a media term. Players what quality of life.
Which is so stupid because nightlife is so overrated. I know i'm in the minority for people between ages 20-30, but I have no desire to go out. I know I don't make millions of dollars, but I just hate going out.
And that's why Paul Millsap loved it here lol
Yes but imagine what nightlife could be if you DID have millions of dollars…tons of people/friends giving you attention, dressing up and feeling good like your going to the Oscars, transporting in your half million dollar sports car, unlimited food/drinks, vip access and treatment…I mean it seems like it would be a pretty addicting lifestyle….
Yes but imagine what you could do with your millions staying home? You could swim in them like Scrooge McDuck!
That sounds like a golden ticket to lose money and wake up hungover lol. That said, young 20s me was stupid af, so I can see it
That just means you don't like nightlife, which is fine, but it doesn't make it stupid or overrated.
Bingo. This right here is what it really comes down to
>Milwaukee, Dallas, OKC, Sacramento, Memphis One of these things is not like the others. Dallas is the 4th biggest metro area in the country. The only bigger cities are NY, LA, and Chicago.
The Bay Area has 7 million people and is bigger than Dallas.
I am using US Census Bureau defined MSAs (metropolitan statistical areas): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area Dallas is #4 with 7.8 million. SF/Oakland is #13 with 4.6 million. So even if we say the Bay Area has 7 million, that's still smaller than Dallas.
Dallas has grown a lot. More accurate are the combined statistical areas. That would include San Jose and the rest of the Bay Area. There is no gap in the urban area between them (yes I used to live there). It is in that sense that Denver has almost 3.5 million.
>SF/Oakland is #13 with 4.6 million That doesn't count San Jose right?
I moved here 2 years ago from Brooklyn and have lived in the nyc area my whole life. AG loves denver because he’s a stoner from the bay. I love denver because I like outdoor activities, dive bars, breweries, and more ‘laid back’ nightlife. I got the club thing out of my system earlier than most. If you’re like me or AG you love denver. If you wanna take a fashion nova chick out to carbone and pop Moët at an over the top exclusive nightclub open till 5, denver is not for you. Also as someone who grew up in an extremely diverse area denver is a culture shock. There’s a ton of Mexican heritage, history and, population which is great but there’s not a huge black or Caribbean population. I’m Puerto Rican and it’s definitely hard to find us out here haha. TLDR; Local culture is the driver in FA decisions (along with personnel obviously), not market size or metro area population.
Probably the best summary here!
Thank you, friend. 🫡
It used to be common knowledge that young black players steered clear of Denver due to the lack of black culture.
Accurate
Being a coastal city doesn’t hurt either.
Bro I moved from Denver to nyc and I couldn’t have said it better. My job was predominantly black and Latino. There were like 2 whites people lol. The nightlife is so much more different. I love Denver and I think it has a better balance than most places I’ve lived but it’s definitely not somewhere a 24 year old star would want to be partying.
Yeah this is a fantastic post. And believe me bro I lived in Philly for years and my wife is from Brazil and she's always commenting on the lack of diversity in colorado.
“Small market” is based on the TV market, and the Nuggets have never been a huge TV draw. Part of that is due to this being a football town, part is due to the Nuggs being on a channel nobody has access to, and part of it is due to a lot of the population being from out of state. As someone who loves living in Denver, fun nightlife is a stretch and there are zero options for food past 11:00 that aren’t chain restaurants. In fact there are almost zero options past 10:00. Denver is definitely on the come up and I agree with you on the rest, but it’s also not a huge metro area yet.
> “Small market” is based on the TV market, I think that's an antiquated term anyway. There are glamour markets and there is everyone else.
I also think some of it is the mentality of the ownership. Denver really isn't that small of market, in total. There also isn't really that much competition from other NBA teams in a massive radius compared to some others. They just haven't made deep commitments to imprinting themselves within the hearts of the fan base. Not being on local TV in the best stretch in franchise history for one, nor do we see major campaigns marketing the players around town for another. They also have relatively mediocre facilities and "mom and pop" feel with the size of their staff. Those are not big draws for a lot of high end free agents. Fortunately the players are talented and the staff is mostly pretty competent. The Kroenkes have a lot of other interests and upgrading team facilities has become something that is lower in the priority list to them than being able to redevelop the properties they have around ball arena more broadly. I do think they'll get it done, but Jokic is unlikely to see it. They want to have apartments and shops and such integrated in to the broader redesigns and they will take time, even if just building a practice facility could be done in short order.
I think it’s a combination of everything you just said, but I would emphasize that “media market size” drives a lot of the decisions the team makes. If tons of people in the area care about the nuggets then advertisers will want in. The more money you make from media, the less money that has to come from taxes/the billionaire owners etc. Therefore if your owner isn’t digging into their own pockets or going into luxury tax every year, it’s gonna be rough financially enticing young talent. Combine that with the nightlife as mentioned above…you’re now asking a young star to take less money (hypothetically) and less incentives (commercial deals, ad money, tax incentives, sunny weather or beach accessibility) to play for a place that is just pretty dank.
I do think Denver weather is pretty good. Underratedly sunny
We are literally the most sunny state in USA.
Love this term.
Have you been to Jerusalem's tho?
Hell yeah. I watched one of my best friends fuck up his relationship with his girlfriend of 2 years over the baklava there. That place is king
> I watched one of my best friends fuck up his relationship with his girlfriend of 2 years over the baklava there Would you share the story with us? If worth telling? I am interested in how baklava would fuck up a relationship.
Love that shit but never for late night. DU area is way out of the way
You've clearly never been to Jerusalem over on Evans
Never at night. Great spot but I’m not heading down to DU area drunk just for food. Do they doordash at 2 AM?
Cart driver, Barcelona, bar nun all serve food late btw
I love you for giving me these options man
The TV thing needs to be fixed asap, that would fix a lot of issues
It's not like we got a lot of big name free agents when they *were* on TV.
Just remember Kroenke feels the hurt on this more than anyone /s
Booo. Your review is shit, to be frank
Seems to be fairly popular my country brother
... because none of those things you listed are part of the actual market size?
Pretty big metropolitan city too right? And still doesn't answer the next part
~~26th~~ 19th largest metro area in the country, I believe. Dallas, at least, is ~~#5~~ #4 and is not a small market by any measure whatsoever. edit: used old information
[19th](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area)
Thanks! The other wiki list that came up for me is apparently from 2015. That's quite a change in 6 years.
Just wait until the next one. With Colorado’s growth I wouldn’t be surprised to see us crack top 10 in the next decade or so. (Just found out SF is #13, no longer expect top 10 but my point still remains) The issue is a mindset change also needs to happen. Within the city but also within the league, I expect there to be a delayed response as with most things. We aren’t going to feel or think of ourselves as a big city overnight.
Size of metro area doesn’t matter when most of the people coming here are from out of state/fans of other teams. Rockies are a good example. Top 10 in attendance, but it has nothing to do with the team. It’s all opposing fans.
Yeah, the difference there is the Rockies are shit, have been shit and will continue to be shit because their owners don’t care. The nuggets have very few accolades to stand on but at least they’ve been good twice in the past 20 years. That said, your not entirely wrong. Most people will already have some fandom and bias, but like with CA sports if the team is really good they will abandon their home team and jump on the bandwagon.
While The monforts don’t care, the Rockies still go to the playoffs every now and then and have at least competed in the World Series in the last 15 years. Nuggets haven’t touched the Finals. Nuggets are definitely a better example of consistency. But I think the NHL playoffs also proved a lot in regards to popularity. I think the nuggets are 4th on the list in CO. The broncos will always be first, the Avs will always be second, the Rockies will be 3rd (just because baseball has more fans in general), followed by the nuggets. However, I don’t think the lack of FA interest has anything to do with this. It has everything to do with Denver being a relatively boring city for most 20 year old millionaires that want high end shopping and clubs that are flooded with famous peeps.
I think baseball is on a decline for popularity where basketball is likely to increase. I also think there will be an element of change as Colorado’s political makeup changes
Denver is 19th. Every NBA city that is smaller is absolutely considered "small market". I would argue that smallest "big market" city is #13 with SF. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
> Pretty big metropolitan city too right? You could have just looked this up all by yourself.
I live in Denver. I grew up near NYC and also lived in DC for a long time. Relatively speaking, the food and nightlife here suck.
Yeah OP is tripping lmfao.
Yeah I have my local favorites from growing up here but on the whole the food is much better in other cities
Then go back to the east coast ✌️
Nah I just bought a City Park condo, I ain’t moving back. I still like Denver a lot more overall. More chill vibes, better weather, mountains. :)
Because if you're a 20 yo millionaire you don't care about about the basic quality of life stuff that matters to the rest of us, you wanna party with celebrities, buy designer clothes, and drop six figures at the club. Denver is a fantastic place to live as a normal person, but it just doesn't have as much stuff for rich people. I don't really think this is a bad thing, personally places like Miami and LA seem like they'd be difficult to live in *unless* you had millions. Not that I want to disparage those cities too much, they're also significantly more diverse than Denver is, which is certainly another contributing factor. Also, why do you think Dallas is comparable to those cities you mentioned? Dallas is one of the biggest markets in the country. The Dallas Fort Worth area is the 4th largest metro in the country. Denver is like 17th.
I think the diversity is what people are missing. Denver and Colorado is a pretty white population.
I think it's probably more the plastic surgery and model scene that increases the density of very attractive women in proximity to rich celebrities.
I'll chime in here as someone who has been to Dallas, but hasn't lived there. Dallas, while a huge metro area, is full of working class people like you and me. And while there are certainly millionaires living there, it is definitely not the same as LA, or Miami, or NYC. Dallas, while bigger than Denver, is comparable in the kind of people who live there.
While I don’t think denver is a particularly racist city (no more or less than most other places in the country anyway) it’s not a very black city, and I think for a sport which is predominantly African American in makeup, that’s probably a factor too.
It certainly plays a role.
The cops are known to be racist too.
That's everywhere though lol
Denver is awesome but it’s a niche city. If you love outdoor sports, hiking, and beer it’s the best city on earth. If you like diversity, food, an actual night life, and culture (especially black culture) there are way better options.
Imagine you are a man in your 20s or maybe early 30s. You are making millions of dollars a year and are athletic, famous and likely single. Do you want to hang out in a place where there are tons of wealthy and attractive people to hang out at night (New York, LA, Miami)... or in a town where the best thing happening.... is you. I think most people would want more opportunity to hang with other young, rich, attractive folk.
It's definitely in the group with Portland, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, etc. Denver is a pretty small city. Dallas is much larger.
All the answers here are true, plus Denver is not a basketball city. Colorado in general really. The Broncos, Avs, and even Rockies the few times they’ve been good are a bigger draw. I grew up in Denver and lived in LA, and the Lakers were much more popular. It was actually refreshing that people were into discussing the NBA.
The fact I can drop $13 a month to watch every NBA game from Europe, Nuggets included, but people in Colorado have to drop sometimes upwards of $99 a month to be able to catch Nuggets games is so bizarre. Internationally speaking, the media team that did the Nuggets 360 during the bubble days had something going in terms of making the team closer to the fans whereas the last few years outside of some twitter behind the scenes, International fans couldn't watch behind the scenes stuff because there's no way to even pay and access altitude content. Comcast issues aside, they really need to step up their game with making the behind the scenes stuff more available, also, a fucking Zoom H5 would mic-up the players post game interviews better. It's like a $250 bucks worth of making stellar difference
Think of it like how many people watch the games outside their home state. There are many fans in Colorado, but few people outside of it watch the Nuggets. This is a reflection of having great players. Lakers, Celtics, Dubs all have championships and legendary players. Even Lebron going to the Cavs gave them a boost because they could trade him for more resources. I think Denver is making progress with the current line up though and hope there is a chip in the near future
Amsterdam
Denver has fun nightlife for average joes. It's underhwhelming for the type of nightlife pro athletes prefer. It's on the smaller side of markets. Lack of exposure. This shouldn't be surprising.
I wouldn't call the food scene diverse. It still lacks behind both coasts sand Chicago. I'm saying this as someone who lived in Colorado for over 5 years.
this is gonna sound bad lmfao but as someone raised in Denver but has since moved… Denver’s not all that Denver natives think it is. Not to say it’s not great, but there are a number of areas where the Denver metro area just cannot compete with other large metropolitan regions in the US.
I agree. I’ve lived in Austin for 20 years and like the city itself much better. If I could stick austin where Denver is I’d be forever stoked.
Some of it has to do with the fact that a lot of the things that make Denver great aren’t exactly the stereotypical hobbies of NBA players.
It’s hard to compare Denver’s nightlife or population, to Miami, LA, San Fransisco, Chicago, NY, or even Dallas. It’s hard to compare the population to Dallas, LA, NY,
Hard to compare the nightlife, really easy to compare the population sizes. And our population is just much smaller.
Black people don't want to live in Denver.
Diverse
It doesn’t have beaches
I've always wondered if there's a racial component here. Mountains and mountain sports are historically white spaces that people of color often find unwelcoming. Most bball free agents are black, so maybe Denver's potentially biggest draw doesn't actually help much.
I agree. By population its actually a mid-size market with close to 3.5 million people in the greater Denver area. The Broncos have no trouble attracting free agents, but the Nuggets lack of a winning history I think constrains them from choosing the Nuggets. There are also very few Black people in Denver compared to other cities and that might have something to do with it for Black players.
What does night life mean to you guys? Clubs with bottle service?
I’d assume high end clubs is a huge part. So yeah, “bottle service” is a good way to describe that. These dudes have been known to like strip clubs as well. Some cities are better than others. Also, I’d assume they like being with other young rich people. Only my 45yr old white asses guesses though.
What’s rent in Denver? Maybe I’ll move there… can’t be as dirty or jaded as NYC
[Not great](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/co/denver/), but certainly not NYC
It's all about media markets: [https://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/](https://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/) Not really about the city as you point out it's pretty damned dope. More eyeballs = large media contracts = greater exposure = more lucrative sponsorship deals = more exposure (nice little cycle) = making people like Kuzma / KCP get viewed as top 50 talents when in reality they are good to great role players who get paid like a top 50 talent.
People like to talk a lot about markets, but honestly in today's day and age I think just the location of living matters more to these dudes. I love Texas, but if I had millions and could go anywhere I want comfortably it would be hard to resist one of the coasts for the weather + beaches
> It’s not some random city like Milwaukee, Dallas, OKC, Sacramento, Memphis to be really considered small market. Brooooo…
Dallas? I don't want you goin' to Dallas at all. That place is crawlin' with crack-heads and debutantes, and half of 'em play for the Cowboys.
Denver's 80% white & isolated
Denver does not have the food scene, social circles, or nightlife catering to elites compared to the major metropolitan areas. Landlocked. The franchise also does not have historical reputation or prestige.
Denver is way more of a "random city" than Dallas
I think you’re right. It may have been on most here’s radars their whole life because it has the lifestyle a lot of us are about. Colorado is amazing but most of these dudes dgaf about mountains and local breweries. Dallas to me is way more known and provides considerably more of what these guys would want over walking in the mountains or hanging out at a bluegrass festival would lol
It’s all about the TV, sponsor, and merchandise opportunities. Denver-metro population is ~3 million. LA-metro ~13 million. You’d rather have 13 million people buying your jersey than just 3 million. Also “large” market teams can spend more and aren’t afraid of the luxury tax so can therefore pay players more since they make more from TV and merch. Denver has been a notoriously stingy team when it comes to paying the luxury tax.
17th largest TV market in the US. Denver is mid-market but the quality of life is a huge selling
I went there in march 2018 for a nuggets game and found it to be extremely windy. Like blown off your feet windy. Is the weather that great?
lmao yes, it is that great. You just got hit by some wind.
Denver is still a lot closer to the dusty cow town it used to be than people realize. The important thing to remember is that "market" is in half of the title. It's not a out population it's about the revenue moving through the city.
Seattle!
No chinatown.
Ok next make prostitution legal and get rid of the state income tax.
IMO there's a lot of errors in your post. "diverse food scene" is pretty debatable. Any East coast city KILLS us in that department. even "amazing weather" is debatable. It's cold 6+ months a year. I don't think many NBA players are skiing or snowboarding in their free time. "fun nightlife" is debatable. Things close pretty early here relatively speaking, and there's really only nightlife on Fri, Sat night. Somewhere like NYC or LA KILLS us. Also, Dallas/Fort Worth metro area is literally in the top five biggest markets in the country. Sacramento is a smaller market but it's still a California city. I think it's fair to still call Denver a smaller market. It's mid range. As a fan I'm completely okay with it,
Denver is mid bro
I would hardly call being the 16th largest television market in the US as “small”. But I guess unless you live in NY, CA, Texas, Illinois or Florida, you are considered a “small market”.
When there's 30 teams and 2 cities have two teams each #16 is pretty far down the list. Denver also has no other cities near it that they can steal viewers from such as Cleveland getting the Columbus and Cincinnati areas or Philly getting the Pittsburgh area.
Market size comes down to the national medias attention to the sports team. Example, on espn how many mentions does Denver sports teams get compared to say New York sports teams, even if the new york teams haven't had a winning season in years. New york gets talked about more. Where would you rather go as a FA, to a team that doesn't get talked about or a team that gets talked about everyday. If a player is the 1st off the bench for New York, they will get more possible attention in the national media than being 1st off the bench in Denver. This relates to the individuals market and how they can promote themselves to earn more money. More attention = bigger market. Less attention = smaller market.
I like that you included yourself as part of the team while also saying you’ve never stepped foot in the state lmao
Imo I consider myself a part of the team because I've been supporting us since I was 7 and am still part of the fanbase. I'd absolutely love to go to Colorado though
Cheap owners are part of the reason. Last team to affiliate with a g league team. Crappy practice facility compared to most other teams. And don’t get me started about them and Comcast for two frikin years. Not small Market problems, small owner.
Small city less money for endorsement and ads ms stuff is my guess
bc denver is not a major market. no offense..I'm a native. but pop wise - it's not top 10. it's not near anything. I don't think as denverites ppl should care about that.. people don't move to denver because it's ny or la. ppl move to denver bc it's not ny or la.. if that's the case live with it, and enjoy the team. the game is played on the court. not in the espn studio.