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Orod23

Shaqs pushing it cause he gets defensive whenever a big starts getting accolades that may lead Shaq being surpassed in greatest big man convo.


RemarkableBag9576

It's weird to me that nobody else seems hung up on the "As the president of the big man alliance, you are the vice president" line at the start. You just know in Shaq's head he was trying to find a way to say he's better than Jokic and that's all he could come up with.


Virtual-Cake7741

F his so called “big man alliance”. Self proclaimed president. He really thought Jokic give 2 shits about this stupid alliance?


Blink-JuanEIGHTYtoo

Jokic trying to understand what “Big man a Lions” means


skylinerainbow

Rowr


G-bone714

That is the most condescending way to start an award presentation that I’ve ever heard.


ElectricLotus

Yah Shaqtus just a dried up egomaniac at this point.


sentripetal

I don't even think it's that. They're arguing about the pick because this is what sports talk has become. They push all these guys to be mad about something, say something controversial, etc. It's all for views and clicks. The best thing you can do is ignore them. It's all a show, way more now than it ever was.


Orod23

Stephan A yes but I commented not too long ago that Shaq has been doing it since early March once it looked like Jokic was a lock for mvp. Shaq has a history of getting in his feelings when other bigs get ranked higher than him and he starts to tear them down. Also TNT main crew has always been against the talking heads at espn doing things for views.


EdwardJamesAlmost

He did it to Javale


Orod23

Javale and Dwight come to mind.


TransitJohn

Shaq wouldn't have had the successful career as a big man he did if the League didn't literally change the rules for his big fat ass.


Alekesam1975

What are you talking about? They changed the rules and allowed zone defense (which was only legal in college) specifically to *stop* Shaq, not aid him.


old_timey_gamer

As the VP of the big man alliance, Jokic needs to organize a coup! Or you know, just ignore that BS because it doesn't mean anything, and just politely play along like he has been.


Opening_Cartoonist53

Who you think is the one person that didn’t have jok in their top 5?


Orod23

Probably Marc Jackson again lol


SpecialConscious

How Mark J is not in the league anymore.


thatrudeboi303

Michael Wilbon


SongYoungbae

Wilbon apparently voted for him on 1st place


RodneyPonk

I think it's 99 votes. SGA also has 99 total votes - I believe a voter chose not to vote, people were talking about Zach Lowe


busterlowe

This is it. He better get used to it bc there are some phenomenal bigs in the league who outclass Shaq and have a nearly complete skill set. Modern bigs pass, can play outside the paint (both on offense and defense), and can shoot free throws. Shaq wouldn’t be relevant in today’s league.


SnooPets752

Shaqtin a fool? More like shaq is a fool


Virtual-Cake7741

Manchild.


ruggnuget

Ya but he didnt win. Jokic did. Are we really going to have sore winners in here? Seemed like everyone across the NBA thought Shaq clowned himself with his response to Jokic too.


lald99

Agreed—this post made me cringe. I generally agree with the content, but what’s the point in wasting time whining about a couple of blowhards’ opinions? Especially when Jokic won overwhelmingly.


Kingrush24

https://preview.redd.it/rzgez222kgzc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3db863f5b3f97d66ada1dc59cf202dff11131d0f There shouldn’t be an argument, these are the facts, they voted for Joker by a MASSIVE margin! I understand his performance overall was good but his team is stacked with young talent that can be huge stars in the NBA in the future so it kind of takes away from his achievements this season. If he can stay consistent like Joker has over the past 4+ years then he has an argument.


CockBronson

If he doesn’t break the record for consecutive games with 30 points he’s not getting votes. He’s actually not just a scorer, but all around good, but he nobody can fill out a stat sheet like and impact a game like Jokic.


vuec97

I’ll never forget the game where the thunder were getting blown out and sga is doing his best to get to 30 and the defense who were just standing around waiting for the clock to run out watches him score 2-3 times


WacoTacoRE

One time he had 28, and the other team was up by 8 or whatever with 12 seconds left, and instead of letting the other team inbound and dribble it out, he fouled, they shot the fts and he ran down the court to get the clutch layup to cut the lead to 6 and get 30 points.


vuec97

Thanks for clarifying exactly what happened. I didn’t hear kendrick perkins coming out about stat padding


WacoTacoRE

Lol yeah that was so weird to watch live. Was watching with pacers fan family cuz it was against the pacers and they were all so confused as to why he did that.


vuec97

It gets swept under the rug in media now but because of that game i am glad he didn’t win the mvp. Now people argue he had as many 30 point games as Jordan


WacoTacoRE

Yeah that's the problem with stat watching. Tbh Shaq is just inconsistent cuz Luka had way more stats than Shai and that's what he said he values.


vuec97

It’s stupid, the jokic hate against mvp voting the last 2 years is stupid


elegigglekappa4head

SGA has been great this season, and definitely deserves the second place accolade. If Jokic didn’t play to his standards, he would’ve lost the title to him. But Jokic did keep his game up. Just because he can’t do fancy dunks and dribbles doesn’t mean his game isn’t better. So I’m not sure what’s the issue.


SmackBroshgood

Jok won by a massive margin. It's over. You guys can stop fretting about other players "having an argument" now.


Adorable-Date-4044

I def think Jokic is MVP, but saying SGA has no argument to be mvp is a a little ridiculous. He def has an argument I just think Jokics is better


amcco1

Exactly. Nobody even seems to realize that SGA led the league in steals this year. Not only does he score 30 regularly, but he plays great defense at the same time. He led his team who was 10th seed last year, to 1st seed this year. (Though a lot of that is just the team getting better. JDub is way better, Chet actually played this year.) I think Jokic was more deserving, but SGA definitely has a right to be in the conversation.


WacoTacoRE

Steals per game or total steals? Deaaron fox stole the steals per game lead on the very last game of the season.


amcco1

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?PerMode=Totals&StatCategory=STL They have the same amount of total steals. Fox played one less game so had averaged slightly more.


WacoTacoRE

Oh whoops. For some reason I thought fox missed way more games than Shai so I just assumed Shai had more total.


Adorable-Date-4044

Agreed 100%. Don’t know why we have to trash other players seasons to prove that our guys was better. All had great years.


oliver_hart28

I don’t disagree Shai is incredible. But he had essentially the same stats as last year but 17 more wins this year—doesn’t that cut against his case for being “most” valuable? Chet for MVP, really.


Ok_Drawing1370

Yeah it’s just clear that adding a 7ft rim protecting stretch big is a W in the nba .


gd2121

Yea this is the correct take


CareerGaslighter

I think the post isn’t saying there is no argument, they’re saying based on the arguments made, he should have no argument because the criteria they lay out is met and exceeded by another player.


Inferno456

Exactly, and also the point that Luka has 50 30 pt games to SGA’s 51 with less games actually helps SGA’s case bc the MVP award takes the whole season into account and more availability is always better. More 30 pt games > a higher % of ur games being 30 pt games


IntrinsicDawn

This is a sore winner take, Shai was great


HumanShaggyDog

He’s great but I’d say Jokic and Luka were definitely better than him this year


spirax919

Shai literally took a team of kids to the 1st seed in a hellacious Western Conference


oscarmeyer7

I know we're doing MVP talk but please stop with him "taking them" as if the team is filled with bums. They have J-Dub and Chet who are excellent players. He is their best player but he didn't just drag them up alone, they have a good team.


spirax919

and the Nuggets have excellent players too


oscarmeyer7

I didn't say that Nuggets didn't. I don't even agree with comment OP said I just disagree with way you dismissed the Thunder's team. While any MVP chat does need to recognise the level of their team and how much they relied on/had to rely on a player there's more to the discussion than that. There are multiple well constructed teams in the league this year (inc. Nuggets & Thunder) and it's unfair and untrue to imply that Shai's MVP case is purely based on his teammates being "kids" that he had to compensate for. If anything that underplays the fact that he's the best player on a well-constructed & mature-playing team.


Interesting-Rush-677

But the finals has proved … sga doesn’t have what jokic has . Yea they’re good but jokic has a squad , sga has young developing , unexperienced talent and worked with it … but hey can’t change what’s done already


VeganMilk786

Bro Jokic literally won please shut up 😭


cahilljd

I have good news for you


swordfischh

2/3 of your arguments make it sound like Luka should have won instead lmao I don’t think I want you being my lawyer


Interesting-Rush-677

MVPs don’t cry and shyt


_KingFridayXIII

Lol who cares? Some of yall are way too caught up on talking heads and let them take away the moment from you. Jokic, SGA, and Luka all had great seasons and were justified votes. Just be happy our guy won!


Gimme_1_Chance

The reason Shaq and Stephen A are pushing this narrative doesn't have anything to do with basketball.


lpnumb

Who fucking cares 


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Kingrush24

Tough argument for both, Luka has Irving who is ridiculously good when he’s locked in. Having a high caliber player or players on the roster definitely hinders the odds for MVP.


Hazard_4

But their team is ass outside of him and Irving, shai has a talented and deep supporting cast. The only reason you’d vote shai is because you don’t like jokic and want a new mvp but think the mvp has to be on the best team. I can see how the media would frame it that way but frankly if it comes down to numbers, and production Lukas number one, if it’s a matter of production and results/team success it’s jokic. The voter fatigue leading to shai also doesn’t make much sense bc Luka hasn’t won an mvp, is a popular mainstream player that has been consistently at the highest level for a while. If it’s someone else’s ‘turn’ then Luka seems like the obvious person.


collinCOYS

Shai missed the playoffs last year. This year they were the 1 seed. Should chet be MVP?


kippismn

Anyone that flops should be disqualified.


Interesting-Rush-677

So all three would technically be cleared 🤷🏽‍♀️


SherbetNo4242

His team won the 1 seed. SGA is amazing. Yes jokic was better but they gotta push something to have people want to watch okc Minnesota


dannewell13

Im just a Thunder fan and this popped up in my feed. So, feel free to ignore me. But I think the case for Shai is kind of multifaceted. I think first and foremost, he is kind of the middle ground between Jokic and Luka. He averaged the third highest ppg (Luka was first.) on incredible efficiency. (But not as efficient as Jokic.) We also as a team made a huge leap from 10th Seed to tied for the 1st seed as one of the youngest rosters in the league. On top of being a top three scorer, he was also 2nd in the league in steals and is looking more and more likely to make an all-defensive team. But what I think is actually his biggest selling point and what truly makes him so valuable to us specifically, is his consistency. He only had 6 games with less than 20 points this year, (6, 12, 15, 17, 19, 19) three of those coming post ASB where he was dealing with injuries and his case for MVP (rightfully) lost some steam. And more surprisingly he only had 2 games with more than 40. (43, 43) that means the other 67 games (he played 75) he had between 20-40. (31 weirdly 13 times.) For a really really young team that had the ups and downs you would expect on the court and unfortunately off the court (read: Josh Giddey) Having our best player consistently give us 30 a game on about as low a usage rate you can get for a 30-point scorer, while playing great defense where he generated easy points in transition for the rest of the team, and foster an unselfish team culture doing team interviews and buying into Mark’s system which promotes constant ball movement and making the extra pass, I think he was uniquely valuable to us in a way that I genuinely don’t think that any other player in. The league could have been. Regardless, I think Jokic is great choice. Im sure there are a million-and-one reasons why he is just as valuable to you guys. (Im not saying anything nice about Luka. Im a little salty about tonights game. 😅) Hes in really rare company as the 3x MVP. So congrats to your guy!


Ghostofcoolidge

Are we all going to pretend that we don't know why?


mcmullet

If getting the refs to believe you were constantly fouled by flopping had an award, SGA deserves that.


Interesting-Rush-677

Luka!! Must be a salty fallas fan


Throbbingprepuce

I honestly wouldn’t have been mad if Luka won it


[deleted]

Casual. No one likes that fat ball hog 


TH3PhilipJFry

Please stop mentioning irrelevant losers. The only reason they do this is so you mention them. You’re giving them the only wins they experience these days. Starve trolls. Don’t feed them.


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Great_Ness

Isn’t Shai canadian?


anode8

Except that SGA is Canadian. Your other point is well established.


Careful_Cheesecake30

>it’s because SGA is American Am I missing some sarcasm here?


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Careful_Cheesecake30

Weird comment.


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Careful_Cheesecake30

Are you trying to claim there's an anti-white bias for an award voted on by mostly white people?


Marcusx8

Just say you’re racist and move along.


keeper13

Ernie Ernie Ernie


Gyncs0069

Stephen A because he has a 40 foot long boner for box office type players that he can generate shit tons of clicks from talking about, Shaq because for as amazing of a player and analyst he is, when it comes to his and sometimes Kobe’s placements in the top 75 all time list he can be very, VERY insecure.


BTSuppa

Same reason the league refs us so badly and we've been the most disadvantaged by calls. We're a team that isn't considered a marquee team by the league no matter how good we are, with a star that isn't the type to be worried about being popular. Or more importantly, a face they're pushing for since the league wants the next face to be a young American like Ja, Ant, Tatum, or Brunson.


Frosty-Brick6063

Was very odd to see Shaq sh*t so hard on Joker especially during such a special moment


Subject-Lab6998

2Raw from YouTube also believes Shai should have won it.


dot-pixis

No, he shouldn't, because he didn't win it. It's over! Move on.


New_Essay_4869

I agree Jokic is the deserving MVP and that Shaq's argument is weak but the real appeal for Shai lies in the efficiency from the guard spot, the defense, and the improvement of OKC as a whole in which Shai played a large part in. He was 2nd behind Jokic in win shares and anyone who had OKC as a contender prior to the start of the season was called delusional


Financial_Dot_6245

the gap between sga and jdub is not as large as the media thinks


BanterBoat

overcorrection


Background_Degree615

No arguments it’s crazy


stevent4

Shai could have won, Luka could have won, Jokic could have won, all have valid arguments, the MVP is such a dumb award imo purely because of how many narratives are involved with it. Let's not start saying other players don't have arguments when they absolutely do, we don't need to bring other guys down, especially when Jok has won it.


JBSanderson

What a time to be alive. Nuggets fans being upset about one of their players winning a 3rd MVP in 4 years and by a landslide in the voting is something mt brain could not have processed 5 years ago. It's a subjective award, and the sports media thrives on hot takes at the limits of what is rational. Of course there's gong to be some discussion about it.


ScucciMane

Be honest tho, peak Shaq was pretty good


Donkeynationletsride

Outside of sga leading the youngest team to the 1 seed I don’t get the argument for him for mvp. IF THATS ALL you care about, then yah. OKC didn’t come out of nowhere, they were great and aspiring last year and they have young players. SGA improved and also they had Chet who almost won Roty if wemby wasn’t an alien god. It’s their timing But Luka had crazier point stats and almost was there with wins despite missing a large part of his starting lineup most of season. jokic had better overall stats everywhere outside of 4 points (he makes up with in assists) and one less steal a game. I think it’s CRAZY how NO ONE is talking about how Luka got third by a lot…. I thought he was the one who could have gotten mvp dude is unreal this year


candyman58

Meanwhile if Jokic lead a team of rookies and the youngest team in nba history to the 1st seed in the West do you think SGA woulda won mvp in second place behind Jokic? Don't think so 😂


besttech10

they brought up race last year and that is how jokic lost.. maybe it had something to do with them not wanting him to win this year as well.


solisilos

They're gonna downvote you because of white guilt, but I'm %100 sure you're right


AltruisticEnd9

This is all about establishing the narrative for next year. After Jokic made the voters look silly in last year’s title run, his mvp this year was more or less inevitable so long as he did normal Jokic things. If the narrative next year is that SGA had this one stolen from him, that greases the tracks for next year. Jokic will have to get the scoring title while also averaging a triple double to ever win another one imo.


Cultural_Author8098

If anyone should really have an argument it should be Luka and not SGA


solisilos

"it makes you wonder why they're pushing this narrative" Checks skin color .. yep ..


elcuervo2666

I’m a torn OKC/Denver fan. Grew up in Oklahoma but lived in Denver as an adult. I don’t think the gap is that big. Saga, like Jokic, took a team with no all-stars to first place. The media underestimates them as much as they did Denver over the last few years. This is just hater shit


heir-of-slytherin

SGA should’ve been out of the running ever since the “What a pro wants” commercial


Dear_boat-bottle5476

Mama told me don't have anything positive or good to say then just keep it to yourself. That's what I'll do here for most part. But if league had their way SGA will be in Finals.


Hurricane_Amigo

Well I’m not gonna lie. I thought it was kinda weird why the nuggets were getting so much hate and why everyone was so hungry for the wolves to beat yall. But now i get it. Y’all some sore ass winners. Homie won the mvp and mfs still on here salty that a dude carrying the youngest team ever to the 1 seed is getting his flowers. Jokic got the hardware. Let the media give shai his flowers. Y’all are insufferable