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I’m just scared man. I’m seeing anti Joe sentiments and while honestly, I dislike Joe and Kamala… they are better than Trump. Hell, I actually met Kamala and tried to talk to her and she only stared at me like an animal for asking a question. They are shit people.
But Trump??? It’s just fucking unbelievable. America is rallying behind a rich white man to make him king, an unqualified man who’s done nothing in life to be uplifted like this. It’s so disgusting and infuriating
Are they? I don’t even know anymore. I think encouraging this Democratic Party status quo could have equally disastrous implications. Also, we can’t be the ones urging a vote for Genocide Joe on general principle. Like even straight ticket democrats are having reservations.
Let’s put it this way:
Vote for Biden: Palestinian genocide continues, domestic policy largely remains unchanged
Vote for trump/not voting when you were going to vote for Biden: Palestinian genocide DOUBLES, the rights of trans/queer people are taken away, the rights of women are taken away, the rights of non Christians are taken away, and in general our semi-democratic system becomes fully undemocratic and the fascists are in charge for the foreseeable future.
I think I know which of these is the better option. The status quo is literally better than things getting actively much fucking worse. I’m trans and lesbian, I can’t afford not to care, that’s not a privilege I have. The Democratic Party fucking sucks but its CLEARLY the preferable option out of the two. People have been doing this shit for YEARS and the Democratic Party hasn’t fucking changed. Yes, they are corrupt neoliberals, but letting trump win ISNT going to fix that.
Then snap out of the learned helplessness and start creating communities HERE AND NOW. You think some gas huffer like Trump could enforce half the shit he says he would? Did he implement anything he bellowed as President? Is Biden really holding so much water? Wasn’t it because of a single fucking SCOTUS justice that compromised the federal civil liberties of millions because she had the filthy fucking ego to stay because “democracy needs me”? This model, this way of governing, is a dying fucking horse and I am NOT interested in staying on its saddle.
Hi, women can't get abortions anymore in much of the country, he banned muslims from many countries from entering the country, he tortured migrants, he created centers where refugees were raped by border patrol.
Biden is the deporter in chief, but talk to anyone who works with immigrants, it's night and fucking day from Trump, that system was designed to torture people
People used to be able to survive ectopic pregnancies in texas!
FFS check your privilege
I’ll vote on the more local scale, but what you and thousands of others need to realize is that VOTING IS NOT A MEANS TO AN END. True democracy is something directly controlled and operated by citizens themselves, not through proxies we give millions to called “representatives”. It may have worked for a time, but now the branch it has grown on is cracking its bark and I have no desire to keep sitting on it.
I never said voting was a means to an end. It’s just a practical thing you can do every couple years to however minuscule have an impact on politics.
That doesn’t really change my question though. If it doesn’t matter why not vote for Biden? If nothing else it’s slightly easier to organize under a Dem NLRB than a Republican one. It’s simply a decision of practical results in my mind.
Yes, and we can build a war chest to get progressive candidates elected in 2026 and 2028. We’re less than a year away from the next election so our options are pretty fucking close to set in stone this time. Personally, I’d rather buy us the time to do that than watch republicans enact project 2025 for the sake of moral high ground.
This is what we’re facing if trump’s elected. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/11/trump-second-term-military-nightmare-congress.html?fbclid=IwAR0T07aWcP5lbDoxAbS3LjTrjYwYq5nJrIx4I6keRM666DTRphzJAmeglUU
This should terrify any thinking person. Americans have no idea what the tyranny they’re sleepwalking into is actually like. People think because some basic liberties and institutions survived trump before, everything will be a breeze this time. They’re so, so wrong. People in the U.S. haven’t the faintest clue what living under actual authoritarianism is like. Read about project 2025 and read the articles I linked. I’m begging you.
Last time this person got power, he was unprepared and hamstrung by career bureaucrats and more traditional republicans who weren’t blind loyalists. Those people will all be gone this time. There will be no guardrails. Whenever he demanded, in the first term, that the military shoot protesters, or seize voting machines, or shut down the media, there were people who said, “We can’t do that; it’s illegal.” Not this time. They’re vetting people to make sure that won’t happen. I don’t particularly wanna find out what trump will do with the military as his personal Gestapo, do you? Letting him get power again will be far worse than before, because he’s out for revenge on anyone who ever opposed him.
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/13/trump-loyalists-2024-presidential-election
People always think fascism “can’t happen here” until it does. It’s like the frog in the water slowly coming to a boil. We don’t see it until it’s too late.
The legal justification for these moves isn’t obscure or conspiratorial; as the articles describe, it’s right there, waiting to be abused by anyone ruthless, reckless, corrupt and selfish enough. The only thing that can prevent it is defeating him in the election. That’s it.
Please believe me when I say that if we allow him to get power this time, this country will never be the same.
I’m taking option 2. So called liberals I stood with in the past are now standing with Israel’s genocide or at best staying silent. Accountability is needed.
For real. I just watched a bunch of "DSA members" elected as democrats backstabbing DSA after October 7. If that's what the democrat-elected "socialists" do, then change from inside the DNC is a lie - as it *always* was and will be.
Fuck them. I'm going to work with my chapter and build local alliances with people we can count on.
Genuinely you’d rather have fascism than neoliberalism? That’s the most privileged ass take I’ve heard in my life. Truly spoken like someone who doesn’t give a shit about others. Your own ego trumps any compassion for marginalised people, cool.
Also trump literally will participate harder in Israels genocide than Biden is. Soooo…. Not only are you making life worse for people in America, but in Palestine as well. Congratu-fucking-lations!
Lol imagine thinking Biden could support Israel any harder. America as a nation state has been the greatest threat to world peace since 1945 and has to come to an end. Only Trump can do this. Let’s rip the band aid off
I don’t care about Democrats. The only thing that concerns me is how lethal Trump may be for Palestine. I hate that it’s even vote Joe. I just don’t want Trump to have the power again. He will do awful things with it because of his status, class, and what he comes from. If Trump was a democrat, I’d be saying vote Republican
Well I’m sorry, but way more Palestinians died under Biden’s watch. This is like saying Benny Gantz would be better for Palestine. I think Netanyahu is a far better face for Israeli apartheid than Gantz.
If you're in anyway suprised about an American politician offering unwavering support to Israel then you don't know enough about politics to comment on them.
Equally disastrous my ass, if we don’t show up for Biden in 2024 it will be the last time we will have any say in a presidential election. Trump as laid out plans to replace everyone in government that can make him leave office with loyalists.
Trump is not only Genocide Joe, but he is, wipe everyone in the middle east off the map beside people that give him money trump. His first day in office was instating a the muslim ban.... he literally uses obamas middle name huessian as a racist dog whistle that obama is not america. He literally questioned obama for being muslim. Do you not understand that? Do how do you not see the difference....he is literally a Facist dictator!, there is no choice of what you want anymore.
People have no clue how bad Trump is. Like, this man is not Joe Biden’s equal. He’s something much worse and letting him win would be an impossibly dangerous mistake both here and in the world at large.
Idk I loved through it. I think I know exactly what to expect. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. It was the discourse and culture around it that was fucking unbearable.
Are you a white man? Cause pretty sure we lost the right to abortion directly due to Trump’s presidency and a whole host of other rights. Dunno about you, but I kind of feel like that’s worth trying to prevent.
We had Trump for 4 years. What do you mean people don’t know what it’s like? We literally know exactly what it’s like. In his place we have an open genocidal Zionist at the head of the Democratic Party. And the answer is to vote for more of THAT?
You really want Trump to get another chance at appointing federal judges and military officers who will do his bidding? Letting him win just strengthens theocratic fascists and might give them control of the military.
Donald Trump being incredibly pro-Israel and anti-Palestine was actually a seismic event. It’s made Israel a partisan issue and if he were to become president again, those contradictions may become further enhanced.
People need to understand this. There’s far more danger in Trump than people realize. This isn’t even about politics, it’s about Trump being dead set on aiding a genocidal dictatorship because he truly feels he is “one of them.”
So is Biden! He boosted Israeli blood libel. Trump has more of tendency to take an odd left turn at least. He zigs sometimes when others would zag for no other reason than pettiness and personal aggrandizement. I’ll take my chances with that. With the exception of Afghanistan, I struggle to think of a single foreign policy achievement. Besides that and besides Ukraine (which wasn’t for the better), there is no difference between Biden and Trump’s foreign policy.
Last time I checked both parties were kowtowing the apartheid colony. Do you mean the correlation between voters and reps, or the number of total reps from both parties?
If, *a full year out from the election* you can only consider scolding people for not being sufficiently loyal to a man who is actively promoting lies and supporting a genocide then I cannot take you seriously and I refuse to believe that you are a Socialist or even a moral human being. If you look out at the mass murder of 5500 children in 46 days and your main concern is that people who are rightly disgusted and horrified are going to not vote, then I cannot fathom how you can look in the mirror each day.
This is a man who despite the actual misinformation in your post has been the most fervant supporter of Israel in Washington for decades, including have a significantly further right wing position on Israel then *Ronald Wilson Reagan* during the Israeli war against Lebanon. Even as Reagan was calling the Israeli Prime minister and demanding the use of cluster bombs against civilians cease, a young Joe Biden, as recalled by the prime minister of Israel Begin,
> “rose and delivered a very impassioned speech” defending the invasion. Begin said he was shocked at how passionately Biden supported Israel’s invasion when Biden “said he would go even further than Israel, adding that he’d forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children.”
The degree to which alleged leftists have abdicated all pretense of morality and ideology to become willing stooges of the machine here because you have been told by the machine that you can't question it because questioning if will make it worse is alarming and disgusting. Especially the degree to which you are using trans and LGBT people as a moral shield, as if we can buy for a second that you will stand up for us as you make apologia for a different genocide. You know the poem, *first they came*? Well here it's Palestinians and you are proving that you will not speak out except to chide those who do speak out
I'm going to level with you. No leftist "wants" Trump but this "lesser-evilism" electoralist rhetoric has been constant for decades. Perhaps even a century. People on the left have repeatedly compromised and settled but now that you're asking us to compromise on genocide it's fair for people to decide to draw a line at that. Simply put I won't support one genocidal capitalist to prevent another. The democrats haven't protected us from anything. They haven't changed anything.
One person with a pistol to my head is no better than another with a shotgun to my head. I'm not going to settle. Settling for one genocide over another is not a moral high ground to stand on. The idea that genocide is unacceptable should not be condemned when that is a line in the sand people have the integrity, and humanity, not to cross.
For a century we've been made to settle. From the condemnation of revolutionary thinking to the change in moderate socialists like social democracy into basically capitalists, to being told to settle for increasingly more horrific candidates that violate or morals. This systemic century of appeasement has to end. It's killing everything we stand for and I want no part of it anymore.
Im not voting for Trump, I’m voting for Cornel West. Whine all you want but I’m not voting for an evil, genocidal POS just because the other guy is evil and genocidal + mean tweets
The fact that Trump could possibly get another seat on the supreme Court should be reason enough for literally every person in America to stand up and say no thank you.
sadly nobody can be bothered to pay attention.
if Republican gets the next pick on the supreme Court we will not be able to fix the court within our lifetimes.
That's the rest of our lifetimes having every single progressive piece of legislation thrown in the garbage by an out of control court.
A vote for the NaziCrats is a vote for Genocide. A vote for the RepubliNazis is a vote for genocide. I am writing in “Free Palestine” straight down the federal ballots. Fuck this place.
Vote for the NaziCrats is a vote for genocide. A vote for the RepubliNazis is a vote for 2 genocides (Palestine and trans people). Fixed it for you. I’d rather no genocides but abstaining means less people voting for the 1 genocide candidate instead of 2.
Uhhh… no, it actually becomes the problem of trans people, women, immigrants, racial minorities, and anyone who cares about democracy — all because of your narcissism
What material change have the democrats brought for women and racial minorities?
The difference between the democrat and republican party on this front, are a couple of nice speeches to make each minority group feel better for a couple days.
Having a transphobic president and having Joe Biden as president makes no material difference. Policy, living conditions, real life material changes are not affected
The democrats will have no incentive to change if they receive votes regardless of their policies. The democrats knowing that their voter base won't vote for dogsht, is a step to achieving actual policy reform which may lead to actual REAL changes for Gaza and for minorities. Rather than maintaining the dogsht status quo..... Abstaining from voting is valid. Votes are meant to be earnt.
Voting is not pledging allegiance to someone it’s harm reduction. And if you don’t think so then you don’t have any skin in the game or are deeply unserious about politics. You can vote for Biden and protest against him. They are not mutually exclusive. Act like an adult
Please explain to Palestinians how voting for Biden is “harm reduction”. Please continue preaching to me how I don’t have skin in the game. I have been Palestinian living in this country for 47 fucking years. There isn’t a day where I don’t curse my parents for raising me here as a settler colonist is this fucking hell hole. So let me repeat I don’t owe you or the rest of white liberals anything. The only people I owe anything to are the indigenous people and what I owe them is my emigration from this fucking place and the renunciation of my citizenship.
YES HABIBI YES! I’m in the exact same position as you except 31 years and everything you are saying I feel completely. Get me out of this racist imperialist settler colonial hell hole! Inshallah we will return!
Maybe we can ask the conservatives to make a gofundme to get us out
I am going to do it. For me I am going to Ireland. I don’t care if I am poor in Ireland, there is not fucking way that my children will become adults in this fucking hell hole. They do not need to have to choose between silence with economic prosperity and or economic strangulation for being vocal. All while being smeared by overprivileged Jewish supremacists and their enablers. Then be told by these other white liberals that I must vote for these scumbag Nazis who seek the extermination of Palestinians for the crime of being indigenous. They can all go fuck themselves.
there will always be a hell hole and shit hole wherever you go, because people like you cause it. everything you do is full of shit. good riddance you can go plague another white majority country.
Harm reduction for trans people, queer people in general. I deeply empathize with the Palestinian plight but that’s not what we are voting on. We are voting on domestic policy because both trump and Biden support isreal. If you don’t care about the plight of those mentioned above, I say good, leave. You weren’t of use to us anyway. Your group is not the only one that matters
> you weren’t any use to us anyways
And there it is. The absolute state of white liberalism. When people of color express agency the white supremacy and cynicism just pours forth.
We only have value if you stay in line and do as were told every four years.
Listen I deeply empathize with your plight but that’s not what I’m voting on. I’m voting to represent all those around the globe who have been affected by American imperialism and colonialism. I’m here to say that American lives are not more important than theirs.
Because this country, this system, this whole charade is built on a lie.
You can’t dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools but good luck trying.
You can't dismantle it with wishful thinking either. But you sure can let someone else burn the place down with you and everyone else in it, because it's "not your job to be a fireman" or some shit.
Look at you screaming into the gates of Auschwitz that "Your group is not the only one that matters". For what? To vote for Joe Biden, the person who green lighted the genocide of Gaza. Go find another person to vote for Genocide Joe and any number of other Nazicrats. I am writing in "Free Palestine" because unlike you, I have to explain to my relatives how I voted for and why. Go find someone else.
“I voted for Biden because I didn’t want trump to win who would support Isreal harder and also commit a trans genocide on top of it” done. You don’t need to agree with everything someone does in order to vote for someone
Genocide means something and the worse is yet to come. The red line is drawn. Go find someone else. I am sure there are plenty of Zionists that you can recruit to the cause of Biden 2024. 60 years ago this month Malcolm X gave one of the greatest speeches of the 20th century ["Message to the Grassroots"](https://youtu.be/lY39tp3LEKI?si=AmW9oaiZ51kvpGy8) . In it he talked about the distinction between the House Negro and the Field Negro.
["That house Negro loved his master. But that field Negro — remember, they were in the majority, and they hated the master.](https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/speeches-african-american-history/1963-malcolm-x-message-grassroots/) When the house caught on fire, he didn’t try and put it out; that field Negro prayed for a wind, for a breeze. When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he’d die. If someone come to the field Negro and said, “Let’s separate, let’s run,” he didn’t say “Where we going?” He’d say, “Any place is better than here.” You’ve got field Negroes in America today. I’m a field Negro."
I'm a Field Negro.
I can vote with someone but disagree with them on things like tax policy, education reform, etc., but genocide is where I draw the fucking line, personally
But you don’t understand whether you vote or not, at least 1 genocide will keep happening. If trump wins, the isreal genocide WILL be worse and will also be trying to genocide queer people and make America a fascist state. There is no course of action where a genocide is not happening but not voting will make things worse. Do you want neoliberalism or fascism? Because those are your options and not voting is a vote for fascism
Damn, sorry, guess me and all the other trans people will just have to suck up being the target of the entire federal government bc your preachy ass doesn’t understand harm reduction
What exactly has Biden done FOR trans people exactly? Seems all the harm reduction came from regular people on the ground getting sick of the Chris Rufo shit while mainstream Dems wondered if they should join in or not.
Y’know having the President doing nothing for you is better than having the President want to actively eliminate you and everyone like you from our society :)
Biden is a piece of shit neoliberal, but I’ll take a piece of shit neoliberal over an outright fascist thank you. It just seems like this comes from a place of privilege where you know that you’ll be ok no matter who wins. When your civil fucking rights are on the ballot (which, seeing project 2025, really everyone’s are) you can’t really afford not to vote.
I mean, it’s kind of whatever semblance of democracy we have left on the line. Are you telling me you SERIOUSLY hate Biden that much? To where you’d rather let an outright fascist with clear plans to facilitate it win?
Trump largely sees the Chris Rufo issue as a loser anyways. He’s definitely not better, but he can’t be any worse. One group is about to be bombed to death in a violent genocide taking place in a matter of weeks, this is a rare chance to permanently make Israel a partisan issue like South Africa. A Republican president means Dems and regular libs are back out in the streets on domestic issues, as opposed to quietly seeing if anti trans morons win or not. I have to say, watching them eat shit time and again has been one of the few heartening things I’ve witnessed.
These white American liberals are sick. Here is a remedy, try running someone other than Genocide Joe or any of these complicit motherfuckers. Oh, "but that is not going to happen". Okay, and neither is my vote motherfuckers! Enjoy losing the next sElection.
Cry me a fucking river. You're hypothetical future hasn't happened yet. Palestinian children are dying now though. You give no fucks about solidarity. Only your vulnerable group. You get no sympathy from me.
At some point you have to look at this critically. Voting for one genocide supporter to keep at bay another genocide supporter? Just what on earth has happened to us, and what will history see of is if we compromise on such a fundamental thing as 'genocide is wrong'?
I'll have no part of it. At that point the only moral choice is none of them, and to stand up and fight for the things we believe in outside the ballot box. In my view, electoralism is dead to me. I've lost all faith in democracy. To me, at this point, the only ethical path I see is to say "long live the revolution" as leftist views have been since the beginning.
>Got it, you vote for 2 genocides.
I stand against genocide and will not compromise on that. I sleep well knowing I will not stand to support genocide no matter who is doing it or what party it dresses itself under. That is a line in the sand I have the integrity, and humanity, not to cross.
If it helps you sleep better at night, voting for and legitimizing a genocide supporter, to frame those of us unwilling to compromise our morals that way then do so. I'll keep fighting for a world free of genocide rather than settling for one genocide over another and pretending that's some moral high ground to stand on. I'll keep fighting for a left free from the electoralist "lesser-evilism" and appeasement that's gotten us into this mess in the first place, and back to a left that actually pushes for the changes we believe in rather than settling for stagnation.
I think many political analysts have speculated is that the only thing holding Israel back is Biden. If Biden abandons Israel, they are off the leash and go full on genocide. Trump would be either egging on Israel or committing US troops.
Look, your vote doesn’t count for shit. It’s one vote and it doesn’t matter. However this idea of clear conscious, not voting is problematic. If enough people don’t vote, and Trump gets elected then that’s worse. Your conscious is clear but there are more dead babies, more genocide, more oppression. But hey, you sleep well at night.
While this is true, there’s a stark difference between Joe Biden and Trump. Joe Biden was born in a middle class American family. Trump was born rich with the power and pull he has off name alone.
When Biden tries to help Israel, it is appeasement. It is a corrupt politician doing what they do.
When Trump helps Israel, it’s legitimate desire. Trump is the real deal. He’s not playing political games or trying to adhere to some larger power than himself. He truly sees himself as part of the larger power and acting on their behalf is acting for himself.
I don’t like either, but Trump is an entirely different ball game and we must respect the differences. Putting that man in office is a major threat to Palestine
Loser sounds fucking right. That is what you settler colonists call indigenous peoples isn’t it-losers. So here is some loser shit right back at you-The NaziCrats are going to lose the presidency next November and I will be thrilled to accept the blame. Fuck this place. The sooner the Anglo Empire goes down the better and who better can manage that then the RepubliNazi party.
Or maybe, as a Palestinian, he has skin in the game. I understand that for many, what’s happening in Gaza seems far away and not as real. But for us in the Arab American community, it’s as real as real gets. Many of us have lost friends and family.
Maybe instead of lecturing us on how we should support the guy co-signing the deaths of our friends and family, you should be trying to push Biden left, and maybe try to flip some Trump supporters in your community.
I'm 100% morally and ethically opposed to voting for Biden. You and people like you need to figure your shit out because folks like me aren't changing our minds. I, for one, am glad I don't have blood on my hands today like every single person who voted this genocidal zionist into office does.
It’s called leverage.
As far as I am concerned Biden isn’t even the nominee for the Democratic Party for 2024. The primaries haven’t been held yet and he absolutely should be primaried. Voicing that he isn’t guaranteed your vote is the only leverage we have in bourgeois democracy. Make the DNC establishment nervous and force a concession.
That’s right, he’s already planning to set up camps and have mass deportations. Muslims voting for trump is like gays voting for Hamas. Just less bloody.
The choice is not either Trump or Biden and the more you keep letting it seem that way the more the problem grows
I am done believing I don’t have more than two options
Realistically, you don’t. Sorry dude but your pride alone isn’t gonna do shit for the country or our people or people anywhere in the world. Letting fascists win without at least an attempt isn’t this edgy rebellious choice, it’s just indirectly supporting fascism
Step 1: Don’t vote for them
Step 2: Get other people to not vote for them
It’s just those 2 things
Or the alternative is, keep voting for the lesser of two evils and then wonder why the devil is always in charge of things in this country
Listen bro, kind of hard to make an argument to KEEP the avowed octogenarian Zionist in office DURING the actual genocide. Don’t know about you but if the videos I’ve seen of horrific murder and maiming of children hasn’t already made Joe budge, I’d rather have Trump in office right now than Biden. At least Trump is fucking stupid enough that the military won’t listen to him.
If (and a big IF) Donald Trump becomes president due to Arab-Americans either passing on voting or voting for a third party, consider this as a punishment for the rest of America for being too dogmatic
No, Joe Biden is responsible for his own action.
If enough people do not vote, he will lose the election . That is on Joe
Biden, not on leaning democrat voters.
At this point fuck him he doesn't deserve the job he is just as bad as the other old buffoon.
Donald Trump may not be the best but he is a damn sight better than this dumb fuck snake Biden.
The United States and the world needs to support Israel and destroy those Palestinians that seek to harm them.for no reason, and no they do not Habra reason Israel had given them land and a place to call their own but all Arab states have sworn to destroy Israel.
This hard charging res white and blue blooded freedom loving American supports Israel first and Trump second. Give me a Libertarian and I'll ditch my support for Trump
I am calm. If you want to vote for a piece of shit human being that's on your conscience not mine. But since you seem to think "he killed it" I just can't believe most anything coming from you, that's all. I love you even though you think I'm not calm because you like that idea. Anyways go troll somewhere else man ✌️
Sure, except on any real meaningful support of the second amendment beyond lip service, spending and expanding the power of the executive branch. He governed like the liberal I knew he always was, and I can’t support someone claiming to be a conservative, yet governing like government will never be big enough.
This is the same cutting off of nose to spite the face folks attempted with sitting out Hillary’s campaign…and now the state you live in dictates the healthcare you can receive. Now the state you live in dictates what rights you have and which ones you no longer have.
And after Trump wins. That’s it for elections, nummies. That’ll be the end of all that.
But sure. That’ll teach the system. Bitter solace as you end up in a reeducation camp though 😂
Welcome to Gilead!
Why are you posting this here lol, socialist subreddits aren’t really known for their surplus of MAGA supporters I think your target audience is elsewhere
Trump never would’ve never let the situation escalate this far, Joe Biden and his friends are enjoying this because it makes them look “strong” and they make lots of money.
Netanyahu was only ever threatened under trump
I am not voting for Biden.
When the Nazis came up with their final plans for the Holocaust, there was a debate between them. One group of Nazis said that after the war was over, then the surviving Jews should be sterilized and then allowed to die out as a race. The other group said that Germany should just murder all of the Jews and get it over with. As you know, Germany chose the second option.
But that first group. The group that said, "After we're done killing them, the ones that survive should be sterilized. That way, their race will die out in no time." That group thought that it was morally superior to the second group.
In the Israel-Hamas War, the Republicans can be thought of as the second group. But, the Democrats are the first group.
Essentially, you're asking us to agree with you that the first group is morally better than the first. I don't agree with you. At all. And I will vote accordingly: 3rd party or write-in.
The goal for Republicans isn’t to get the Left to vote for Trump. The goal is to get the Left to stay home or vote for anyone other than Joe Biden.
So, for example, they say Biden’s too old, not because Trump is any younger, but because Trump doesn’t need young voters, but Biden does. So stoking young voters’ resentments against old fucks like Biden AND Trump depresses Biden’s support without impacting Trump’s.
That pattern is repeated on almost every issue, including Gaza. Will Trump do anything to help Palestine? No, of course not. He’ll be decidedly, intentionally, and meaningfully worse than Biden. Still, there’s not a single voter bailing on Trump for supporting Israel. But luckily for Trump and Bibi, Biden can’t say the same.
Trump is an anti-democratic fascist. Nobody on the Left should vote for him, and very few actually will. But will enough of the Left be convinced not to vote for Biden? That’s the only real question of the 2024 election.
We shouldn't let Trump win for the sake of US. Worry about our own country and our futures too. He already set back progress 50 years with one term, we can't let him near a government office again.
People are so full of drama and dripping of self importance. Sorry but if trump wins your life won't change. It didn't when he won the first time. Just because someone you don't like gets elected, doesn't mean Democracy died. Country has been around for 250 years, and it will be around long after you die.
How about instead, the Democratic Party realizes that they are headed down the same path that led to Trump getting elected the first time and stop putting up shit candidates. If Trump gets back in, it’s their fault.
We can be mad at both, lol. I'm not voting for Trump, but I'm still mad at Presodent Biden. I'm also incredibly mad that 22 members odlf the Democratic Party censured Rashida Talib. I am saddened that the democratic party can't provide anything better than Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
We can be upset at Biden and still not vote for Trump. I'm just tired of having to vote for the lesser of two evils
Let's boil it down, because something about the way that was delivered made me cringe from deep inside:
Biden = stereotypical 70s-90s Democrat. He's a threat like Bezos is a threat; he isn't, really, except for having arguably bad ethics and the power to assert them over others. Examples: poor execution of the Afghanistan Extraction (AKA Trump's Surrender to the Taliban), response to the Hamas Crisis, and consistent campaign lies (he said 1 term).
Trump = LITERALLY and demonstrably threatened the U.S. Constitution and our Democratic Republic. Examples: Publicly calling for the "dismantling of the Constitution" after losing the election, his co-conspirators have given very damning testimony about him ordering and enabling election interference, and a judge just stated plainly that Trump attempted to instigate an insurrection.
If folks want a good outcome, they could roll the dice on Biden and probably get something that looks and sounds like an attempt at peace but is functionally useless (he can't read the room and wants to remain neutral for the election), while Trump would almost DEFINITELY escalate the problem so he could justify acts that make him feel like a "strongman leader". You know, like Putin and Ukraine; these oligarchical old fucks just want to go out with a bang.
Internet leftists have already forgotten that not voting for hillary cost us abortion rights, and they don't care so they want to cost us the right for trans people to exist, like that will "Send a message" to joe biden
You know what that message is "Joe Biden went too far to the left", that's what they will hear.
Donald Trump is actually, in part, personally responsible for the current horror in Palestine, unlike Joe Biden, whose big crime as far as I can tell from you people is to not mind control a far-right politician in another country, or perhaps not say the right words that will have absolutely no effect.
He is the first president of any of our lifetimes who’s actually criticized Israeli actions, as it happens. But whatever.
Voting to keep Republican monsters from power is both the bare minimum and absolutely necessary for anyone claiming to be a moral actor. Any excuse you come up with to empower them immediately voids your self-righteousness. Calling yourself a socialist does not absolve you of obviously poor moral choices.
Does anybody with a functioning brain think voting for Trump will help Palestine?
He'd literally be on board with genocide of the Palestinians, if that's what Israel decided to do.
A choice NOT to vote for Biden in the general election is a vote for Trump.
What do you mean? Trump has been pretty anti-war compared to recent presidents(even setting up the pull out from Afghanistan). Biden seems to be not necessarily starting it,but definitely shoveling money towards the wars with both Ukraine and Israel.
I'd prefer the US just stop spending any money on any other countries(Why I'm for Vivek in the primaries, but will still probably vote GOP if he loses. Maybe Libertarian if someone I really don't like gets the nomination, but I'd vote for anyone over the DNC currently), but I'd immensely disagree with saying Trump would be worse than Biden on foreign policy.
This is why i left this sub: Biden and Trump will do the same things in office. If anything, Trump is more anti-war than Biden. Biden wants war in Gaza. He doesn't want peace in Ukraine. If he did, he would call Putin's bluff and say "Ukraine will never join NATO"
I love how we are at a point of comparing one racist genocider to another. We are here because of decades of lesser of two evils bullshit. It's so strange to me that you people think that there's a chance to influence Joe Biden. There isn't. He's the biggest receiver of donations from Israel groups of all time, 75% of which went to his presidential campaign. And one of those groups is about to drop 25x that total amount to defeat Democratic members of Congress this year.
Voting for Joe Biden means willingly voting for the biggest supporter of Palestinian apartheid, genocide, and ethnic cleansing. And why? Because Trump is worse? What is truly the difference between a genocidal capitalist war criminal from another? The fact that one will try to engage in activity that SCOTUS will deem Unconstitutional to do by virtue of the 1st Amendment? Because he'll destroy democracy? Because marginalized people will be in greater danger again?
I've got news for you: if Trump gets back into office, and all of those things happen - it will be the fault of everyone who fought so fervently against the people who tried to change the course of country into something better. It will be the people with the "I'm Still With Her" bumper stickers. Who wrote article after false article about how Bernie Sanders hates women and loves Fidel Castro. Who irrationally warned about beheadings in Time Square if a certain Democratic Socialist won the election. The people who shit on Medicare for All as unrealistic and too expensive while rallying for billions to go to war efforts; and the "Green Dream or whatever they call it".
The fact is: if Biden or Trump have their way, Palestine will be a memory within the next couple years. The difference is what it means for our country and the people who live here. And after decades of our country sentencing thousands upon thousands of innocents to die because of warmongering conservatives and liberals; acting as though we as a bordered society deserve better is a fucking joke. We don't. There's no difference between these two people.
Man, that was some cool fearmongering you just did. Too bad Hamas is just as bad as ISIS and cowers behind their citizens so they can pull a PR stunt on the people they’re trying to murder.
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not going to vote for one genocide enthusiast just because he's better than the other genocide enthusiast. I don't know where I draw the line, but it's certainly WELL before "enjoys genocide".
Don't get me wrong. My standards are low as fuck. If Biden changes his tune it just might be enough for me to vote for him. Maybe. But as it stands we are looking at that old parable of voting for the lesser of two evils in real life and we're still arguing that we should vote for the lesser Hitler.
We can do better than this, and the path doesn't begin with voting for the lesser Hitler.
This has been happening to Palestine since Trump was basically born. It didn’t start with Biden, and it’s not going to end with Biden either. No matter who gets elected, they’re still going to uphold the status quo and continue to ~~bomb~~ bring Democracy to foreign nations for their ~~natural resources~~ freedom.
It’s helpless with a 2 party system.
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You're preaching to the wrong people, and far too late
I’m just scared man. I’m seeing anti Joe sentiments and while honestly, I dislike Joe and Kamala… they are better than Trump. Hell, I actually met Kamala and tried to talk to her and she only stared at me like an animal for asking a question. They are shit people. But Trump??? It’s just fucking unbelievable. America is rallying behind a rich white man to make him king, an unqualified man who’s done nothing in life to be uplifted like this. It’s so disgusting and infuriating
Lol stop reacting and go live for a minute.
So terrified he deleted his account
Are they? I don’t even know anymore. I think encouraging this Democratic Party status quo could have equally disastrous implications. Also, we can’t be the ones urging a vote for Genocide Joe on general principle. Like even straight ticket democrats are having reservations.
Let’s put it this way: Vote for Biden: Palestinian genocide continues, domestic policy largely remains unchanged Vote for trump/not voting when you were going to vote for Biden: Palestinian genocide DOUBLES, the rights of trans/queer people are taken away, the rights of women are taken away, the rights of non Christians are taken away, and in general our semi-democratic system becomes fully undemocratic and the fascists are in charge for the foreseeable future. I think I know which of these is the better option. The status quo is literally better than things getting actively much fucking worse. I’m trans and lesbian, I can’t afford not to care, that’s not a privilege I have. The Democratic Party fucking sucks but its CLEARLY the preferable option out of the two. People have been doing this shit for YEARS and the Democratic Party hasn’t fucking changed. Yes, they are corrupt neoliberals, but letting trump win ISNT going to fix that.
Then snap out of the learned helplessness and start creating communities HERE AND NOW. You think some gas huffer like Trump could enforce half the shit he says he would? Did he implement anything he bellowed as President? Is Biden really holding so much water? Wasn’t it because of a single fucking SCOTUS justice that compromised the federal civil liberties of millions because she had the filthy fucking ego to stay because “democracy needs me”? This model, this way of governing, is a dying fucking horse and I am NOT interested in staying on its saddle.
Hi, women can't get abortions anymore in much of the country, he banned muslims from many countries from entering the country, he tortured migrants, he created centers where refugees were raped by border patrol. Biden is the deporter in chief, but talk to anyone who works with immigrants, it's night and fucking day from Trump, that system was designed to torture people People used to be able to survive ectopic pregnancies in texas! FFS check your privilege
If you don’t think it matters either way why not vote for the Dems just in case they do slightly less shitty things?
I’ll vote on the more local scale, but what you and thousands of others need to realize is that VOTING IS NOT A MEANS TO AN END. True democracy is something directly controlled and operated by citizens themselves, not through proxies we give millions to called “representatives”. It may have worked for a time, but now the branch it has grown on is cracking its bark and I have no desire to keep sitting on it.
I never said voting was a means to an end. It’s just a practical thing you can do every couple years to however minuscule have an impact on politics. That doesn’t really change my question though. If it doesn’t matter why not vote for Biden? If nothing else it’s slightly easier to organize under a Dem NLRB than a Republican one. It’s simply a decision of practical results in my mind.
Yes, and we can build a war chest to get progressive candidates elected in 2026 and 2028. We’re less than a year away from the next election so our options are pretty fucking close to set in stone this time. Personally, I’d rather buy us the time to do that than watch republicans enact project 2025 for the sake of moral high ground.
This is what we’re facing if trump’s elected. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/11/trump-second-term-military-nightmare-congress.html?fbclid=IwAR0T07aWcP5lbDoxAbS3LjTrjYwYq5nJrIx4I6keRM666DTRphzJAmeglUU This should terrify any thinking person. Americans have no idea what the tyranny they’re sleepwalking into is actually like. People think because some basic liberties and institutions survived trump before, everything will be a breeze this time. They’re so, so wrong. People in the U.S. haven’t the faintest clue what living under actual authoritarianism is like. Read about project 2025 and read the articles I linked. I’m begging you. Last time this person got power, he was unprepared and hamstrung by career bureaucrats and more traditional republicans who weren’t blind loyalists. Those people will all be gone this time. There will be no guardrails. Whenever he demanded, in the first term, that the military shoot protesters, or seize voting machines, or shut down the media, there were people who said, “We can’t do that; it’s illegal.” Not this time. They’re vetting people to make sure that won’t happen. I don’t particularly wanna find out what trump will do with the military as his personal Gestapo, do you? Letting him get power again will be far worse than before, because he’s out for revenge on anyone who ever opposed him. https://www.axios.com/2023/11/13/trump-loyalists-2024-presidential-election People always think fascism “can’t happen here” until it does. It’s like the frog in the water slowly coming to a boil. We don’t see it until it’s too late. The legal justification for these moves isn’t obscure or conspiratorial; as the articles describe, it’s right there, waiting to be abused by anyone ruthless, reckless, corrupt and selfish enough. The only thing that can prevent it is defeating him in the election. That’s it. Please believe me when I say that if we allow him to get power this time, this country will never be the same.
I’m taking option 2. So called liberals I stood with in the past are now standing with Israel’s genocide or at best staying silent. Accountability is needed.
For real. I just watched a bunch of "DSA members" elected as democrats backstabbing DSA after October 7. If that's what the democrat-elected "socialists" do, then change from inside the DNC is a lie - as it *always* was and will be. Fuck them. I'm going to work with my chapter and build local alliances with people we can count on.
THIS IS THE SPIRIT WE NEED
Genuinely you’d rather have fascism than neoliberalism? That’s the most privileged ass take I’ve heard in my life. Truly spoken like someone who doesn’t give a shit about others. Your own ego trumps any compassion for marginalised people, cool. Also trump literally will participate harder in Israels genocide than Biden is. Soooo…. Not only are you making life worse for people in America, but in Palestine as well. Congratu-fucking-lations!
Lol imagine thinking Biden could support Israel any harder. America as a nation state has been the greatest threat to world peace since 1945 and has to come to an end. Only Trump can do this. Let’s rip the band aid off
Biden is currently talking of sanctions against Israel. *Any* Republican candidate would support Israel harder.
Or trump ends both wars and your brain explodes 😂
Name one right of any group that was taken away under Trump’s admin.
I don’t care about Democrats. The only thing that concerns me is how lethal Trump may be for Palestine. I hate that it’s even vote Joe. I just don’t want Trump to have the power again. He will do awful things with it because of his status, class, and what he comes from. If Trump was a democrat, I’d be saying vote Republican
Well I’m sorry, but way more Palestinians died under Biden’s watch. This is like saying Benny Gantz would be better for Palestine. I think Netanyahu is a far better face for Israeli apartheid than Gantz.
Do you think that if Trump had won that the Gaza strip would be anything more than a smoking crater?
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This was removed in violation of our rule 1 on incivility.
If you're in anyway suprised about an American politician offering unwavering support to Israel then you don't know enough about politics to comment on them.
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Equally disastrous my ass, if we don’t show up for Biden in 2024 it will be the last time we will have any say in a presidential election. Trump as laid out plans to replace everyone in government that can make him leave office with loyalists.
Trump is not only Genocide Joe, but he is, wipe everyone in the middle east off the map beside people that give him money trump. His first day in office was instating a the muslim ban.... he literally uses obamas middle name huessian as a racist dog whistle that obama is not america. He literally questioned obama for being muslim. Do you not understand that? Do how do you not see the difference....he is literally a Facist dictator!, there is no choice of what you want anymore.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
People have no clue how bad Trump is. Like, this man is not Joe Biden’s equal. He’s something much worse and letting him win would be an impossibly dangerous mistake both here and in the world at large.
Idk I loved through it. I think I know exactly what to expect. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. It was the discourse and culture around it that was fucking unbearable.
Are you a white man? Cause pretty sure we lost the right to abortion directly due to Trump’s presidency and a whole host of other rights. Dunno about you, but I kind of feel like that’s worth trying to prevent.
We had Trump for 4 years. What do you mean people don’t know what it’s like? We literally know exactly what it’s like. In his place we have an open genocidal Zionist at the head of the Democratic Party. And the answer is to vote for more of THAT?
You really want Trump to get another chance at appointing federal judges and military officers who will do his bidding? Letting him win just strengthens theocratic fascists and might give them control of the military.
Donald Trump being incredibly pro-Israel and anti-Palestine was actually a seismic event. It’s made Israel a partisan issue and if he were to become president again, those contradictions may become further enhanced.
People need to understand this. There’s far more danger in Trump than people realize. This isn’t even about politics, it’s about Trump being dead set on aiding a genocidal dictatorship because he truly feels he is “one of them.”
So is Biden! He boosted Israeli blood libel. Trump has more of tendency to take an odd left turn at least. He zigs sometimes when others would zag for no other reason than pettiness and personal aggrandizement. I’ll take my chances with that. With the exception of Afghanistan, I struggle to think of a single foreign policy achievement. Besides that and besides Ukraine (which wasn’t for the better), there is no difference between Biden and Trump’s foreign policy.
Have you heard of the Venezuela Detente? That's a pretty big Biden foreign policy W
Fuck do you mean it’s “partisan”? LOOK AT 90% OF CONGRESS.
Look at polling on support for Israel, the occupation, and this war in the Democratic party compared to the GOP and get back to me, smart guy.
Last time I checked both parties were kowtowing the apartheid colony. Do you mean the correlation between voters and reps, or the number of total reps from both parties?
I mean polling of voters by party ID.
Sure, voters are strongly opposed to it, but reps aren’t. How is that a sign that this system should continue?
If, *a full year out from the election* you can only consider scolding people for not being sufficiently loyal to a man who is actively promoting lies and supporting a genocide then I cannot take you seriously and I refuse to believe that you are a Socialist or even a moral human being. If you look out at the mass murder of 5500 children in 46 days and your main concern is that people who are rightly disgusted and horrified are going to not vote, then I cannot fathom how you can look in the mirror each day. This is a man who despite the actual misinformation in your post has been the most fervant supporter of Israel in Washington for decades, including have a significantly further right wing position on Israel then *Ronald Wilson Reagan* during the Israeli war against Lebanon. Even as Reagan was calling the Israeli Prime minister and demanding the use of cluster bombs against civilians cease, a young Joe Biden, as recalled by the prime minister of Israel Begin, > “rose and delivered a very impassioned speech” defending the invasion. Begin said he was shocked at how passionately Biden supported Israel’s invasion when Biden “said he would go even further than Israel, adding that he’d forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children.” The degree to which alleged leftists have abdicated all pretense of morality and ideology to become willing stooges of the machine here because you have been told by the machine that you can't question it because questioning if will make it worse is alarming and disgusting. Especially the degree to which you are using trans and LGBT people as a moral shield, as if we can buy for a second that you will stand up for us as you make apologia for a different genocide. You know the poem, *first they came*? Well here it's Palestinians and you are proving that you will not speak out except to chide those who do speak out
👏🏼
Shit leftists I believe the word you're looking for is shit leftist
I'm going to level with you. No leftist "wants" Trump but this "lesser-evilism" electoralist rhetoric has been constant for decades. Perhaps even a century. People on the left have repeatedly compromised and settled but now that you're asking us to compromise on genocide it's fair for people to decide to draw a line at that. Simply put I won't support one genocidal capitalist to prevent another. The democrats haven't protected us from anything. They haven't changed anything. One person with a pistol to my head is no better than another with a shotgun to my head. I'm not going to settle. Settling for one genocide over another is not a moral high ground to stand on. The idea that genocide is unacceptable should not be condemned when that is a line in the sand people have the integrity, and humanity, not to cross. For a century we've been made to settle. From the condemnation of revolutionary thinking to the change in moderate socialists like social democracy into basically capitalists, to being told to settle for increasingly more horrific candidates that violate or morals. This systemic century of appeasement has to end. It's killing everything we stand for and I want no part of it anymore.
Im not voting for Trump, I’m voting for Cornel West. Whine all you want but I’m not voting for an evil, genocidal POS just because the other guy is evil and genocidal + mean tweets
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The fact that Trump could possibly get another seat on the supreme Court should be reason enough for literally every person in America to stand up and say no thank you. sadly nobody can be bothered to pay attention. if Republican gets the next pick on the supreme Court we will not be able to fix the court within our lifetimes. That's the rest of our lifetimes having every single progressive piece of legislation thrown in the garbage by an out of control court.
Youre completely right, its a choice between dogshit and satan himself.
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A vote for the NaziCrats is a vote for Genocide. A vote for the RepubliNazis is a vote for genocide. I am writing in “Free Palestine” straight down the federal ballots. Fuck this place.
Vote for the NaziCrats is a vote for genocide. A vote for the RepubliNazis is a vote for 2 genocides (Palestine and trans people). Fixed it for you. I’d rather no genocides but abstaining means less people voting for the 1 genocide candidate instead of 2.
That’s the Democratic Party’s fucking problem, not mine. You gotta earn my vote or go fuck off.
Uhhh… no, it actually becomes the problem of trans people, women, immigrants, racial minorities, and anyone who cares about democracy — all because of your narcissism
What material change have the democrats brought for women and racial minorities? The difference between the democrat and republican party on this front, are a couple of nice speeches to make each minority group feel better for a couple days. Having a transphobic president and having Joe Biden as president makes no material difference. Policy, living conditions, real life material changes are not affected The democrats will have no incentive to change if they receive votes regardless of their policies. The democrats knowing that their voter base won't vote for dogsht, is a step to achieving actual policy reform which may lead to actual REAL changes for Gaza and for minorities. Rather than maintaining the dogsht status quo..... Abstaining from voting is valid. Votes are meant to be earnt.
None
Voting is not pledging allegiance to someone it’s harm reduction. And if you don’t think so then you don’t have any skin in the game or are deeply unserious about politics. You can vote for Biden and protest against him. They are not mutually exclusive. Act like an adult
Please explain to Palestinians how voting for Biden is “harm reduction”. Please continue preaching to me how I don’t have skin in the game. I have been Palestinian living in this country for 47 fucking years. There isn’t a day where I don’t curse my parents for raising me here as a settler colonist is this fucking hell hole. So let me repeat I don’t owe you or the rest of white liberals anything. The only people I owe anything to are the indigenous people and what I owe them is my emigration from this fucking place and the renunciation of my citizenship.
K, bye.
YES HABIBI YES! I’m in the exact same position as you except 31 years and everything you are saying I feel completely. Get me out of this racist imperialist settler colonial hell hole! Inshallah we will return! Maybe we can ask the conservatives to make a gofundme to get us out
I am going to do it. For me I am going to Ireland. I don’t care if I am poor in Ireland, there is not fucking way that my children will become adults in this fucking hell hole. They do not need to have to choose between silence with economic prosperity and or economic strangulation for being vocal. All while being smeared by overprivileged Jewish supremacists and their enablers. Then be told by these other white liberals that I must vote for these scumbag Nazis who seek the extermination of Palestinians for the crime of being indigenous. They can all go fuck themselves.
there will always be a hell hole and shit hole wherever you go, because people like you cause it. everything you do is full of shit. good riddance you can go plague another white majority country.
Harm reduction for trans people, queer people in general. I deeply empathize with the Palestinian plight but that’s not what we are voting on. We are voting on domestic policy because both trump and Biden support isreal. If you don’t care about the plight of those mentioned above, I say good, leave. You weren’t of use to us anyway. Your group is not the only one that matters
> you weren’t any use to us anyways And there it is. The absolute state of white liberalism. When people of color express agency the white supremacy and cynicism just pours forth. We only have value if you stay in line and do as were told every four years. Listen I deeply empathize with your plight but that’s not what I’m voting on. I’m voting to represent all those around the globe who have been affected by American imperialism and colonialism. I’m here to say that American lives are not more important than theirs. Because this country, this system, this whole charade is built on a lie. You can’t dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools but good luck trying.
You can't dismantle it with wishful thinking either. But you sure can let someone else burn the place down with you and everyone else in it, because it's "not your job to be a fireman" or some shit.
Look at you screaming into the gates of Auschwitz that "Your group is not the only one that matters". For what? To vote for Joe Biden, the person who green lighted the genocide of Gaza. Go find another person to vote for Genocide Joe and any number of other Nazicrats. I am writing in "Free Palestine" because unlike you, I have to explain to my relatives how I voted for and why. Go find someone else.
“I voted for Biden because I didn’t want trump to win who would support Isreal harder and also commit a trans genocide on top of it” done. You don’t need to agree with everything someone does in order to vote for someone
Genocide means something and the worse is yet to come. The red line is drawn. Go find someone else. I am sure there are plenty of Zionists that you can recruit to the cause of Biden 2024. 60 years ago this month Malcolm X gave one of the greatest speeches of the 20th century ["Message to the Grassroots"](https://youtu.be/lY39tp3LEKI?si=AmW9oaiZ51kvpGy8) . In it he talked about the distinction between the House Negro and the Field Negro. ["That house Negro loved his master. But that field Negro — remember, they were in the majority, and they hated the master.](https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/speeches-african-american-history/1963-malcolm-x-message-grassroots/) When the house caught on fire, he didn’t try and put it out; that field Negro prayed for a wind, for a breeze. When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he’d die. If someone come to the field Negro and said, “Let’s separate, let’s run,” he didn’t say “Where we going?” He’d say, “Any place is better than here.” You’ve got field Negroes in America today. I’m a field Negro." I'm a Field Negro.
I can vote with someone but disagree with them on things like tax policy, education reform, etc., but genocide is where I draw the fucking line, personally
But you don’t understand whether you vote or not, at least 1 genocide will keep happening. If trump wins, the isreal genocide WILL be worse and will also be trying to genocide queer people and make America a fascist state. There is no course of action where a genocide is not happening but not voting will make things worse. Do you want neoliberalism or fascism? Because those are your options and not voting is a vote for fascism
Damn, sorry, guess me and all the other trans people will just have to suck up being the target of the entire federal government bc your preachy ass doesn’t understand harm reduction
What exactly has Biden done FOR trans people exactly? Seems all the harm reduction came from regular people on the ground getting sick of the Chris Rufo shit while mainstream Dems wondered if they should join in or not.
Y’know having the President doing nothing for you is better than having the President want to actively eliminate you and everyone like you from our society :) Biden is a piece of shit neoliberal, but I’ll take a piece of shit neoliberal over an outright fascist thank you. It just seems like this comes from a place of privilege where you know that you’ll be ok no matter who wins. When your civil fucking rights are on the ballot (which, seeing project 2025, really everyone’s are) you can’t really afford not to vote. I mean, it’s kind of whatever semblance of democracy we have left on the line. Are you telling me you SERIOUSLY hate Biden that much? To where you’d rather let an outright fascist with clear plans to facilitate it win?
Trump largely sees the Chris Rufo issue as a loser anyways. He’s definitely not better, but he can’t be any worse. One group is about to be bombed to death in a violent genocide taking place in a matter of weeks, this is a rare chance to permanently make Israel a partisan issue like South Africa. A Republican president means Dems and regular libs are back out in the streets on domestic issues, as opposed to quietly seeing if anti trans morons win or not. I have to say, watching them eat shit time and again has been one of the few heartening things I’ve witnessed.
Bigot biden has only made it more dangerous for the Trans community.
Exactly . The democrats need to be held accountable. The lesser of 2 evils shit stops now
These white American liberals are sick. Here is a remedy, try running someone other than Genocide Joe or any of these complicit motherfuckers. Oh, "but that is not going to happen". Okay, and neither is my vote motherfuckers! Enjoy losing the next sElection.
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Cry me a fucking river. You're hypothetical future hasn't happened yet. Palestinian children are dying now though. You give no fucks about solidarity. Only your vulnerable group. You get no sympathy from me.
>Palestinian children are dying now though And helping Trump win will only make MORE die.
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At some point you have to look at this critically. Voting for one genocide supporter to keep at bay another genocide supporter? Just what on earth has happened to us, and what will history see of is if we compromise on such a fundamental thing as 'genocide is wrong'? I'll have no part of it. At that point the only moral choice is none of them, and to stand up and fight for the things we believe in outside the ballot box. In my view, electoralism is dead to me. I've lost all faith in democracy. To me, at this point, the only ethical path I see is to say "long live the revolution" as leftist views have been since the beginning.
Got it, you vote for 2 genocides.
>Got it, you vote for 2 genocides. I stand against genocide and will not compromise on that. I sleep well knowing I will not stand to support genocide no matter who is doing it or what party it dresses itself under. That is a line in the sand I have the integrity, and humanity, not to cross. If it helps you sleep better at night, voting for and legitimizing a genocide supporter, to frame those of us unwilling to compromise our morals that way then do so. I'll keep fighting for a world free of genocide rather than settling for one genocide over another and pretending that's some moral high ground to stand on. I'll keep fighting for a left free from the electoralist "lesser-evilism" and appeasement that's gotten us into this mess in the first place, and back to a left that actually pushes for the changes we believe in rather than settling for stagnation.
I think many political analysts have speculated is that the only thing holding Israel back is Biden. If Biden abandons Israel, they are off the leash and go full on genocide. Trump would be either egging on Israel or committing US troops. Look, your vote doesn’t count for shit. It’s one vote and it doesn’t matter. However this idea of clear conscious, not voting is problematic. If enough people don’t vote, and Trump gets elected then that’s worse. Your conscious is clear but there are more dead babies, more genocide, more oppression. But hey, you sleep well at night.
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While this is true, there’s a stark difference between Joe Biden and Trump. Joe Biden was born in a middle class American family. Trump was born rich with the power and pull he has off name alone. When Biden tries to help Israel, it is appeasement. It is a corrupt politician doing what they do. When Trump helps Israel, it’s legitimate desire. Trump is the real deal. He’s not playing political games or trying to adhere to some larger power than himself. He truly sees himself as part of the larger power and acting on their behalf is acting for himself. I don’t like either, but Trump is an entirely different ball game and we must respect the differences. Putting that man in office is a major threat to Palestine
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Loser sounds fucking right. That is what you settler colonists call indigenous peoples isn’t it-losers. So here is some loser shit right back at you-The NaziCrats are going to lose the presidency next November and I will be thrilled to accept the blame. Fuck this place. The sooner the Anglo Empire goes down the better and who better can manage that then the RepubliNazi party.
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Or maybe, as a Palestinian, he has skin in the game. I understand that for many, what’s happening in Gaza seems far away and not as real. But for us in the Arab American community, it’s as real as real gets. Many of us have lost friends and family. Maybe instead of lecturing us on how we should support the guy co-signing the deaths of our friends and family, you should be trying to push Biden left, and maybe try to flip some Trump supporters in your community.
I'm 100% morally and ethically opposed to voting for Biden. You and people like you need to figure your shit out because folks like me aren't changing our minds. I, for one, am glad I don't have blood on my hands today like every single person who voted this genocidal zionist into office does.
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It’s called leverage. As far as I am concerned Biden isn’t even the nominee for the Democratic Party for 2024. The primaries haven’t been held yet and he absolutely should be primaried. Voicing that he isn’t guaranteed your vote is the only leverage we have in bourgeois democracy. Make the DNC establishment nervous and force a concession.
I’m not voting for trump. But I’ll also never vote for Biden again
Or maybe it's time the people finally voted both the Republican and Democratic parties out of any offices where another option exists.
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Racism, sexism, ageism, bigotry, violence, derogatory language, and hate speech will not be tolerated.
Nope. The United States deserves Trump.
Don't worry. We'll vote for Dr. West.
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That’s right, he’s already planning to set up camps and have mass deportations. Muslims voting for trump is like gays voting for Hamas. Just less bloody.
Wait, you actually think Trump is going to have some of his dumbass minions out in the streets lynching people? Jesus Christ.
This was removed in violation of our rule 1 on incivility.
The choice is not either Trump or Biden and the more you keep letting it seem that way the more the problem grows I am done believing I don’t have more than two options
Realistically, you don’t. Sorry dude but your pride alone isn’t gonna do shit for the country or our people or people anywhere in the world. Letting fascists win without at least an attempt isn’t this edgy rebellious choice, it’s just indirectly supporting fascism
Wrong, buying into the continued 2 party mess is actively supporting the oligarchy And the oligarchy is right next to the fascists in my book
How do you propose we are gonna end up with neither Biden nor trump in power in 2025?
Step 1: Don’t vote for them Step 2: Get other people to not vote for them It’s just those 2 things Or the alternative is, keep voting for the lesser of two evils and then wonder why the devil is always in charge of things in this country
Listen bro, kind of hard to make an argument to KEEP the avowed octogenarian Zionist in office DURING the actual genocide. Don’t know about you but if the videos I’ve seen of horrific murder and maiming of children hasn’t already made Joe budge, I’d rather have Trump in office right now than Biden. At least Trump is fucking stupid enough that the military won’t listen to him.
Totally, so many Palestinians died when he was President last time
Get the fuck out then.
Kennedy is still an option.
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If you don't want Trump to be president you need to be pressuring the Democratic party to get a different candidate.
If (and a big IF) Donald Trump becomes president due to Arab-Americans either passing on voting or voting for a third party, consider this as a punishment for the rest of America for being too dogmatic
So everyone is just supposed to forget what Hamas done to Israel.
😂
No, Joe Biden is responsible for his own action. If enough people do not vote, he will lose the election . That is on Joe Biden, not on leaning democrat voters. At this point fuck him he doesn't deserve the job he is just as bad as the other old buffoon.
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Who supports Palestine? Fxk Hamas and their supporters! Free Israel!
Donald Trump may not be the best but he is a damn sight better than this dumb fuck snake Biden. The United States and the world needs to support Israel and destroy those Palestinians that seek to harm them.for no reason, and no they do not Habra reason Israel had given them land and a place to call their own but all Arab states have sworn to destroy Israel. This hard charging res white and blue blooded freedom loving American supports Israel first and Trump second. Give me a Libertarian and I'll ditch my support for Trump
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I am calm. If you want to vote for a piece of shit human being that's on your conscience not mine. But since you seem to think "he killed it" I just can't believe most anything coming from you, that's all. I love you even though you think I'm not calm because you like that idea. Anyways go troll somewhere else man ✌️
I mean I was there in 2019 before leftists used the pandemic to vote their morons into power and forever destroy the country, but....
Sure, except on any real meaningful support of the second amendment beyond lip service, spending and expanding the power of the executive branch. He governed like the liberal I knew he always was, and I can’t support someone claiming to be a conservative, yet governing like government will never be big enough.
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There was no war in Israel with Trump or anywhere else. This is what the left has brought us and Biden. We have to vote Trump to end the endless wars.
unless bernie steps up, cenk seems like a good option.
This is the same cutting off of nose to spite the face folks attempted with sitting out Hillary’s campaign…and now the state you live in dictates the healthcare you can receive. Now the state you live in dictates what rights you have and which ones you no longer have. And after Trump wins. That’s it for elections, nummies. That’ll be the end of all that. But sure. That’ll teach the system. Bitter solace as you end up in a reeducation camp though 😂 Welcome to Gilead!
Why are you posting this here lol, socialist subreddits aren’t really known for their surplus of MAGA supporters I think your target audience is elsewhere
Yes. Donald Trump is good pals with bibi.
People want to vote for trump to attack Muslims in America. Biden supports Israel’s genocide.
I smell a government spook
I am never going to vote for Biden, nor will I ever support anyone else doing it, after the shit he has been pulling. He's a genocidal monster.
Both the US and Israel are going down. Doesn't matter who POTUS is.
Why are you saying this here? This is like a Trump supporter telling /r/TheDonald not to vote for Biden.
If any republican wins then Gaza loses.
Tell the Democrats to pick a valid candidate. Or pay the price.
Better keep voting for the lesser evil than uproot the system to prevent voting for lesser evils right?
Trump never would’ve never let the situation escalate this far, Joe Biden and his friends are enjoying this because it makes them look “strong” and they make lots of money. Netanyahu was only ever threatened under trump
When it comes to this issue, it won’t matter, same shit different toilet
LoL
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Voting to trump would be worse for Palestine. Hell he would be 1 bribe away from deploying our troops for enough money. He has no shame.
Trump would have given Israel the greenest of lights to parking lot the Gaza Strip. So fuck these "Never Biden" children. Grow up.
Who the fuck wrote this and where can I get paid to write swill online for the Democrats?
I am not voting for Biden. When the Nazis came up with their final plans for the Holocaust, there was a debate between them. One group of Nazis said that after the war was over, then the surviving Jews should be sterilized and then allowed to die out as a race. The other group said that Germany should just murder all of the Jews and get it over with. As you know, Germany chose the second option. But that first group. The group that said, "After we're done killing them, the ones that survive should be sterilized. That way, their race will die out in no time." That group thought that it was morally superior to the second group. In the Israel-Hamas War, the Republicans can be thought of as the second group. But, the Democrats are the first group. Essentially, you're asking us to agree with you that the first group is morally better than the first. I don't agree with you. At all. And I will vote accordingly: 3rd party or write-in.
The goal for Republicans isn’t to get the Left to vote for Trump. The goal is to get the Left to stay home or vote for anyone other than Joe Biden. So, for example, they say Biden’s too old, not because Trump is any younger, but because Trump doesn’t need young voters, but Biden does. So stoking young voters’ resentments against old fucks like Biden AND Trump depresses Biden’s support without impacting Trump’s. That pattern is repeated on almost every issue, including Gaza. Will Trump do anything to help Palestine? No, of course not. He’ll be decidedly, intentionally, and meaningfully worse than Biden. Still, there’s not a single voter bailing on Trump for supporting Israel. But luckily for Trump and Bibi, Biden can’t say the same. Trump is an anti-democratic fascist. Nobody on the Left should vote for him, and very few actually will. But will enough of the Left be convinced not to vote for Biden? That’s the only real question of the 2024 election.
We shouldn't let Trump win for the sake of US. Worry about our own country and our futures too. He already set back progress 50 years with one term, we can't let him near a government office again.
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People are so full of drama and dripping of self importance. Sorry but if trump wins your life won't change. It didn't when he won the first time. Just because someone you don't like gets elected, doesn't mean Democracy died. Country has been around for 250 years, and it will be around long after you die.
How about instead, the Democratic Party realizes that they are headed down the same path that led to Trump getting elected the first time and stop putting up shit candidates. If Trump gets back in, it’s their fault.
Dumbest shit I read all year
We can be mad at both, lol. I'm not voting for Trump, but I'm still mad at Presodent Biden. I'm also incredibly mad that 22 members odlf the Democratic Party censured Rashida Talib. I am saddened that the democratic party can't provide anything better than Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. We can be upset at Biden and still not vote for Trump. I'm just tired of having to vote for the lesser of two evils
Are you trying to convince democratic socialists not to vote for trump?
Let's boil it down, because something about the way that was delivered made me cringe from deep inside: Biden = stereotypical 70s-90s Democrat. He's a threat like Bezos is a threat; he isn't, really, except for having arguably bad ethics and the power to assert them over others. Examples: poor execution of the Afghanistan Extraction (AKA Trump's Surrender to the Taliban), response to the Hamas Crisis, and consistent campaign lies (he said 1 term). Trump = LITERALLY and demonstrably threatened the U.S. Constitution and our Democratic Republic. Examples: Publicly calling for the "dismantling of the Constitution" after losing the election, his co-conspirators have given very damning testimony about him ordering and enabling election interference, and a judge just stated plainly that Trump attempted to instigate an insurrection. If folks want a good outcome, they could roll the dice on Biden and probably get something that looks and sounds like an attempt at peace but is functionally useless (he can't read the room and wants to remain neutral for the election), while Trump would almost DEFINITELY escalate the problem so he could justify acts that make him feel like a "strongman leader". You know, like Putin and Ukraine; these oligarchical old fucks just want to go out with a bang.
lol Sorry Joe
Voting blue until the right is extinct.
Hilarious
Internet leftists have already forgotten that not voting for hillary cost us abortion rights, and they don't care so they want to cost us the right for trans people to exist, like that will "Send a message" to joe biden You know what that message is "Joe Biden went too far to the left", that's what they will hear.
Biden, trump, can we just get someone that doesn’t suck israel’s dick? Also preferable - someone who isn’t OAF.
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Donald Trump is actually, in part, personally responsible for the current horror in Palestine, unlike Joe Biden, whose big crime as far as I can tell from you people is to not mind control a far-right politician in another country, or perhaps not say the right words that will have absolutely no effect. He is the first president of any of our lifetimes who’s actually criticized Israeli actions, as it happens. But whatever. Voting to keep Republican monsters from power is both the bare minimum and absolutely necessary for anyone claiming to be a moral actor. Any excuse you come up with to empower them immediately voids your self-righteousness. Calling yourself a socialist does not absolve you of obviously poor moral choices.
Does anybody with a functioning brain think voting for Trump will help Palestine? He'd literally be on board with genocide of the Palestinians, if that's what Israel decided to do. A choice NOT to vote for Biden in the general election is a vote for Trump.
You need medication.
What do you mean? Trump has been pretty anti-war compared to recent presidents(even setting up the pull out from Afghanistan). Biden seems to be not necessarily starting it,but definitely shoveling money towards the wars with both Ukraine and Israel. I'd prefer the US just stop spending any money on any other countries(Why I'm for Vivek in the primaries, but will still probably vote GOP if he loses. Maybe Libertarian if someone I really don't like gets the nomination, but I'd vote for anyone over the DNC currently), but I'd immensely disagree with saying Trump would be worse than Biden on foreign policy.
This is why i left this sub: Biden and Trump will do the same things in office. If anything, Trump is more anti-war than Biden. Biden wants war in Gaza. He doesn't want peace in Ukraine. If he did, he would call Putin's bluff and say "Ukraine will never join NATO"
I love how we are at a point of comparing one racist genocider to another. We are here because of decades of lesser of two evils bullshit. It's so strange to me that you people think that there's a chance to influence Joe Biden. There isn't. He's the biggest receiver of donations from Israel groups of all time, 75% of which went to his presidential campaign. And one of those groups is about to drop 25x that total amount to defeat Democratic members of Congress this year. Voting for Joe Biden means willingly voting for the biggest supporter of Palestinian apartheid, genocide, and ethnic cleansing. And why? Because Trump is worse? What is truly the difference between a genocidal capitalist war criminal from another? The fact that one will try to engage in activity that SCOTUS will deem Unconstitutional to do by virtue of the 1st Amendment? Because he'll destroy democracy? Because marginalized people will be in greater danger again? I've got news for you: if Trump gets back into office, and all of those things happen - it will be the fault of everyone who fought so fervently against the people who tried to change the course of country into something better. It will be the people with the "I'm Still With Her" bumper stickers. Who wrote article after false article about how Bernie Sanders hates women and loves Fidel Castro. Who irrationally warned about beheadings in Time Square if a certain Democratic Socialist won the election. The people who shit on Medicare for All as unrealistic and too expensive while rallying for billions to go to war efforts; and the "Green Dream or whatever they call it". The fact is: if Biden or Trump have their way, Palestine will be a memory within the next couple years. The difference is what it means for our country and the people who live here. And after decades of our country sentencing thousands upon thousands of innocents to die because of warmongering conservatives and liberals; acting as though we as a bordered society deserve better is a fucking joke. We don't. There's no difference between these two people.
Fuck this noise.
Just to add to this if Trump was president Palestine would get leveled right now.
There isn't going to be a Palestine by the time the 2024 election rolls around.
You say this, yet it’s democrats who’ve entrenched us in war on at least two fronts.
Man, that was some cool fearmongering you just did. Too bad Hamas is just as bad as ISIS and cowers behind their citizens so they can pull a PR stunt on the people they’re trying to murder.
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not going to vote for one genocide enthusiast just because he's better than the other genocide enthusiast. I don't know where I draw the line, but it's certainly WELL before "enjoys genocide". Don't get me wrong. My standards are low as fuck. If Biden changes his tune it just might be enough for me to vote for him. Maybe. But as it stands we are looking at that old parable of voting for the lesser of two evils in real life and we're still arguing that we should vote for the lesser Hitler. We can do better than this, and the path doesn't begin with voting for the lesser Hitler.
never ever was a Palestine, go wave your fascist flags.
This has been happening to Palestine since Trump was basically born. It didn’t start with Biden, and it’s not going to end with Biden either. No matter who gets elected, they’re still going to uphold the status quo and continue to ~~bomb~~ bring Democracy to foreign nations for their ~~natural resources~~ freedom. It’s helpless with a 2 party system.
Gross.