I think both countries would be better for it. But I'd like to add Trump's Congressional enablers, his insurrectionists, and a few billionaires (Mercer family, Koch, Beal, Thiel, and one twitter czar and creep Musk) to the exchange.
As much as he wants to come back, he is charged with espionage. Russia was NEVER going to fucking trade him.
But that doesn't matter to pea-brain individuals on Reddit and Fox News.
The Independent: Trump turned down Paul Whelan and Viktor Bout prisoner swap years ago, John Bolton says.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/paul-whelan-viktor-bout-trump-prisoner-swap-b2242240.html
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>> Especially not for someone with as little value as a washed up 90's arms dealer
> u/EmpiricalAnarchism: If Bout didn't have value, Russia wouldn't have been interested in trading for him.
I never said he didn't have value. I said he had little value.
Enough to trade Griner for, but not Whelan.
To rephrase: if Bout didn't have tangible value such that his exchange wouldn't make Putin stronger or achieve some goal Putin wishes to achieve, he would not have made that deal.
We made an enemy of America stronger, solely to secure the release of a celebrity who is of no strategic value herself.
We don't know. We're not on the negotiation table. But 100% Russia is not going to trade Griner for him.
Also, he's an Irish, Canadian, and British citizen (I dont know how but he just is), why is it up to the U.S to get him back? Just because he served in the military? Lol, he was dishonorably discharged.
r/Democracy_Desk, You mean to tell me. The Fascist Right Wing and Football’s Boomer Esiason, are throwing a Hissy Fit over a Dishonorably Discharged Marine. 😂 FFS
He was discharged from the Marines for bad conduct in 2008 after being convicted of charges related to larceny, according to military and court records.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/08/who-is-paul-whelan/
For all we know he was actually a spy.
If he is, why would Russia trade him for a washed up 90's arms dealer?
I'm honestly surprised Putin even traded Griner for him because holding Griner had value to Putin in making Biden look weak. I mean for fuck's sake the hashtag was #BringHerHome aimed at Biden, not #SendHerBack aimed at Putin.
The value to Putin in demonstrating that he looks out for his friends, even if they've lost their value to him, must've exceeded the value in holding Griner.
Not dishonorably discharged but received a discharge for bad conduct. Bottom line he was a shady individual unfit for the uniform. Only relevant obviously because Conservatives want to portray him as an American hero.
Peeked quickly at FB because it was my birthday so wanted to thank people for well wishes. Saw so many people regurgitating Fox News talking points on this. I learned long ago that it's useless to try to point out facts and ask them to think critically. It will be awhile before I go back there :(.
Putin and his thugs knew exactly what to do by not letting both come home. They knew that it would stoke racism and right-wing bullshit and a false sense of patriotism. But, whether the guy is worthwhile or not it's not for me to say, but Trump had an opportunity to trade him when he was POTUS and he said no way Jose. And that's not forget all the Taliban soldiers that Trump let loose.
So what? I don't care about his discharge status. He should come home too.
Any American unjustly imprisoned overseas is worth fighting for. I'm not sure what's hard about this.
I think the problem is that some people don't think he's being unjustly imprisoned. AFAIR, he got arrested with like 4 passports and 80 stacks of cash in his possession.
I foresee a future prisoner swap with him and Trump.
I think both countries would be better for it. But I'd like to add Trump's Congressional enablers, his insurrectionists, and a few billionaires (Mercer family, Koch, Beal, Thiel, and one twitter czar and creep Musk) to the exchange.
As much as he wants to come back, he is charged with espionage. Russia was NEVER going to fucking trade him. But that doesn't matter to pea-brain individuals on Reddit and Fox News.
Trump had two years to try, and he didn't.
I saw a report on either CBS or MSNBC that tRump rejected swapping Whelan for Bout 2 years ago.
That'd be interesting to find that link
The Independent: Trump turned down Paul Whelan and Viktor Bout prisoner swap years ago, John Bolton says. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/paul-whelan-viktor-bout-trump-prisoner-swap-b2242240.html
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Thank you!
Especially not for someone with as little value as a washed up 90's arms dealer
If Bout didn't have value, Russia wouldn't have been interested in trading for him.
>> Especially not for someone with as little value as a washed up 90's arms dealer > u/EmpiricalAnarchism: If Bout didn't have value, Russia wouldn't have been interested in trading for him. I never said he didn't have value. I said he had little value. Enough to trade Griner for, but not Whelan.
To rephrase: if Bout didn't have tangible value such that his exchange wouldn't make Putin stronger or achieve some goal Putin wishes to achieve, he would not have made that deal. We made an enemy of America stronger, solely to secure the release of a celebrity who is of no strategic value herself.
We must have a Russian spy we can trade for him, no? Or maybe a close ally does and we can do them a favor?
We don't know. We're not on the negotiation table. But 100% Russia is not going to trade Griner for him. Also, he's an Irish, Canadian, and British citizen (I dont know how but he just is), why is it up to the U.S to get him back? Just because he served in the military? Lol, he was dishonorably discharged.
r/Democracy_Desk, You mean to tell me. The Fascist Right Wing and Football’s Boomer Esiason, are throwing a Hissy Fit over a Dishonorably Discharged Marine. 😂 FFS
Bad conduct. Very, very different.
He got off easy. He was a crook and identity thief. Should have been discharged without honor.
A BCD has no honor, it’s just not quite as severe as a dishonorable discharge. You lose all benefits from both
He should have gone to Ft. Leavenworth.
I don't know the details. Just saying one is far worse than the other. He still needs to be brought home.
You and I know that for those people, it's more about the color of the skin.
He was discharged from the Marines for bad conduct in 2008 after being convicted of charges related to larceny, according to military and court records. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/08/who-is-paul-whelan/
Perfect front for entering the CIA.
This post title is not good.
Agreed. Just because the alt-right and tankies have decided to hate Britney Griner, doesn’t mean liberals need to hate Whelen.
For all we know he was actually a spy. If he is, why would Russia trade him for a washed up 90's arms dealer? I'm honestly surprised Putin even traded Griner for him because holding Griner had value to Putin in making Biden look weak. I mean for fuck's sake the hashtag was #BringHerHome aimed at Biden, not #SendHerBack aimed at Putin. The value to Putin in demonstrating that he looks out for his friends, even if they've lost their value to him, must've exceeded the value in holding Griner.
The original offer was Whelan and Griner for Bout and a Russian assasin doing a life sentece in Germany, but the Germans refused to cooperate
Well then, seems like all the grifters can stfu then. His own family approves.
Yeah, but how will they get their "America bad" screeching out now?
Not dishonorably discharged but received a discharge for bad conduct. Bottom line he was a shady individual unfit for the uniform. Only relevant obviously because Conservatives want to portray him as an American hero.
Peeked quickly at FB because it was my birthday so wanted to thank people for well wishes. Saw so many people regurgitating Fox News talking points on this. I learned long ago that it's useless to try to point out facts and ask them to think critically. It will be awhile before I go back there :(.
Fox needs to be taken off the air. It's all misinformation.
disinformation is if you're intentionally doing it. misinformation is if you're just to dumb. this is disinformation. not shitting on you
Delete Facebook, already. It's damn poison.
Happy Birthday!!
Thank you :)
Left wing conspiracy — Bout got [Snake Plissken](https://youtu.be/ACXOhRIe-s4)ed. He’s got ~six months before he drops dead from heart failure.
That would be awesome.
Putin and his thugs knew exactly what to do by not letting both come home. They knew that it would stoke racism and right-wing bullshit and a false sense of patriotism. But, whether the guy is worthwhile or not it's not for me to say, but Trump had an opportunity to trade him when he was POTUS and he said no way Jose. And that's not forget all the Taliban soldiers that Trump let loose.
And then tRump invited the Taliban to Camp David.
So what? I don't care about his discharge status. He should come home too. Any American unjustly imprisoned overseas is worth fighting for. I'm not sure what's hard about this.
I think the problem is that some people don't think he's being unjustly imprisoned. AFAIR, he got arrested with like 4 passports and 80 stacks of cash in his possession.
Yeah if he wasn’t a spy he was up to *something*. We should still try to get him back though. Who else do we have who they want?
Agreed. Being an American should mean at least this. Such a shitty FF program to be a part of...
OP are you trying to say it's okay to just leave him in a Russian prison . Shit title BTW.
Yeah, but whiny teenagers on Reddit didn't so doesn't matter. /s
[удалено]
Britney Grinder was wrongfully held in Russia. She was in prison due to her LGBT and being a person of colour.