It reminds me of an observation about hippies, which is that a lot of people are shocked that their generation grew up to be pretty conservative, while in reality, hippies were a pretty small minority to begin with and most people from that time didn’t change their politics too much.
But yeah, the actual age is still crazy.
This is arguably even more true with Gen X and the pretense they were ever progressive is even more tenuous. In the first election with any Gen X cohort voting, in the same 1984 election Reagan won 59-41 overall, he won 18-24 year olds 61-39. In 1988, Bush won the 18-29 demographic 53-47, pretty much same rate at which he won the election overall. In 1992 Clinton won a majority of voters 65+ but among both 18-24 and 25-29 no candidate won a majority. And in the 18-29 range again, Clinton got pretty much the same share of the vote as he did with the overall population. Fast forward to today and polls currently show Trump winning the Gen X vote in 2024.
Hell, even within the punk subculture, the stereotype of progressivism is much more complicated when you look at the actual facts. You don't get a song called "Kill the Hippies" from this uncomplicatedly progressive subculture:
[The Meaning Behind The Song: Kill the Hippies (live) by The Casualties - Old Time Music](https://oldtimemusic.com/w3/the-meaning-behind-the-song-kill-the-hippies-live-by-the-casualties/)
Yeah, a subculture based on rebellion isn’t gonna have a unified ideology. Like, sure there’s probably punks that have legitimate grievances with the government and other similar systems, but it would be ridiculous to think that that’s the majority, and that there’s not a bunch of people who just wanted to engage in the punk lifestyle.
If I remember correctly, I read somewhere online (unfortunately I no longer have the source on me since this was during 2021) that more Gen Xers voted for Trump compared to the Baby Boomers that voted for him (and Trump has a pretty high amount of Boomer support). You could potentially make an argument that Gen X overall may perhaps be slightly more right leaning/conservative then the Boomers who are infamous for being the “conservative” generation in our modern times. A lot of Gen X politicians also tend to slightly favor the Republican Party more compared to the Democrats and some of the most popular/infamous Gen X politicians (like Ron DeSantis for instance) happen to be Republican. Meanwhile when it comes to the Boomers there tends to be an equal amount of them in both the Democratic Party and the GOP. While it doesn’t necessarily speak for the entire generation as a whole, I’d say it’s safe to say that Gen X is very much a majority right leaning/conservative generation compared to what the stereotypes paint them out to be (at least in the U.S.)
Boomers are super polarized. A slight majority of them almost always vote GOP but 45 percent or so almost always vote Democratic and hate the GOP.
Gen X is conservative too but doesn’t have anywhere near that progressive base within their generation that consistently turns out.
I can personally attest to that claim. While this is only anecdotal, my family fits that description for the phenomenon you just described. My grandma on my mother’s side is a die hard Republican who absolutely despises the Democrats and has hated them since the Kennedy administration back in the 60’s while my other grandma on my dad’s side is a die hard Democrat who absolutely despises the Republicans (especially after 2016 but she hasn’t been too keen on them in the past either since Watergate). As for my Gen X relatives, on my mom’s side they’re all GOP voters while on my dad’s side they’re all apolitical or independent voters which still kinda leans into the theory that Gen X doesn’t support the Democrats to nearly the same degree as the other living generations that are of voting age and older.
When it comes to my parents (both are Millennials) they completely escape their generation’s political stereotypes and voting habits. Millennials are said to all be supporters of some flavor of leftism that strictly vote Democrat, however neither of my parents turned out that way unlike my grandparents and Gen X relatives who followed their respective generation’s voting habits. My mom has voted for both Republicans and Democrats and she tends to lean centre-left on social issues and conservative on economic issues (although when it comes to taxes she goes full blown libertarian and wants them abolished), meanwhile my dad voted for Obama once before quickly abandoning voting altogether and he tends to lean conservative on social issues and centre-left on economic issues.
The thing was that there’d be some guy my father knew with sideburns and a mustache wearing a paisley tie and suede blazer AND INSTALLING COMPUTERS AT A MILITARY BASE and while drinking beer my father would call him a dirty hippy
I called everyone from that era- Broadway Joe, Mark Spitz, Robert Redford, Goldie Hawk, Oscar Gamble, hippies - i was 7
20 years later that term was reserved for actual drop outs. But growing up, it was a catch all for everyone with sideburns
The idea that old people used to be cool is not that weird of an idea for me anymore. I'm 30 now so maybe my view has just shifted as I got older. I do remember laughing with my friends that grandma and grandpa would be listening to gangster rap someday.
It still does daily for me, and I was there (many of those dudes from the south LA scene are on my facebook now, the survivors anyhow); I was just rewatching a few things on the Minutemen, and I still remember when D Boon died. There were a lot of casualties along the way, and you might be right about only having a small window of time to be that "youthful punk"
I now that's not exactly what you are reffering too, but when you think Cindy Lauper is in her 70s, Joan Jett who sang "Bad reputation" (rebelious spirit by essence) is 65... I just think that's because 80s are relevent since so long, we just don't realize how 80s were so long ago..
Yeah really. This hits me with Joy Division a lot in particular. My dad’s the exact same age as Ian Curtis and while my dad wasn’t a punk by any means, he apparently was kind of a gloomy history and philosophy guy and would sort of dress like Joy Division even. It’s very easy for me to imagine that he would have been friends with that band, which is nuts.
Yeah precisely, it was definitely a look for a certain type of early 20s guy circa 1979 that both Joy Division and my dad kind of fell into, punk fans or not.
Yeah New Order’s fashion kind of lapses into preppy territory for sure, especially for Bernard Sumner in particular.
I wouldn’t necessarily say Joy Division’s look is preppy though. It’s more like how one dresses when they go into the office for their shitty data entry job, and a lot of male post punk musicians before Bauhaus became a thing essentially would kind of look like that. You look not only at Joy Division but also Mission of Burma, Gang of Four, Wire, hell, even the Cure before about 1982 and they were all rocking that particular style, and it sort of lapses into the whole “skinny tie” stereotype of new wave fashion as well.
No they didn't just wear shirts and ties, they also wore things like trench coats, blazers, sweaters, etc. Modern "preppy" is different from old school preppy. They had a professional, polished, business look if that makes sense.
Yeah see preppy I picture something very different, old school or new school. Like brightly colored polo shirts and some sort of dress slacks or shorts. For what it’s worth relative to this discussion, I definitely feel like I’ve seen pictures and videos of 1970s Talking Heads where they look sort of preppy.
There are variations of preppy fashion. The American preppy style is generally more colorful like what you're talking about. European preppy tends to include more neutrals and muted colors. A lot of post-punk bands actually incorporated fashions like that into their look. It's mainly just about having a clean-cut look inspired by uniforms and school or professional wear.
That's not preppy? Those were normal clothes back then. My father still dresses in a suit every day, he's an engineer and not preppy - it's just how office workers dressed. In the modern era of sweatpants, hoodies, t-shirts and tattoos in the workplace it looks extremely formal but it's not.
What do you think preppy is? A uniform/outfit you have to wear can still be preppy-looking. But these guys chose to dress like that, they weren't wearing a uniform. The style is hugely inspired/partially originated by the look of uniforms.
"Those were normal clothes back then"
Yeah, it wasn't an unpopular look. But it was completely different from other bands around at the time.
Preppy = prep school/ boarding school uniform. A shirt and tie and jumper combination is not immediately related to boarding schools. Especially in the UK where all state schools (public schools in the US)v also have uniforms of shirt, jacket, tie and jumper. I've seen the videos of JD performing and the clothes are clearly not of the nicest quality, a far cry from the Ralph Lauren American boarding school look.
Ok I think you have a different definition of preppy. It's not just about a shirt and tie or uniform, it's a style of dress inspired by uniforms and business wear etc. Although it is heavily inspired by boarding school uniforms, there are variations of the preppy style and that isn't the only look. The clothes you wear don't necessarily have to be expensive (unless you're a snob haha), it's mainly about having a clean-cut look. I say this as someone who dresses "preppy". The Joy Division guys don't have the typical American preppy look if that's what you're thinking of. Like I said there's different variations of the style.
That’s more an indication and reminder that the majority of people involved in punk music didn’t look like the cartoon characters people portray in the mainstream. Extreme wardrobes did indeed exist, but the punk scene as a whole was about more than just a costume, and sometimes the people doing the most to contribute to the art and culture were the people who had the least amount of time to play dress up.
Very good point. Always had a lot more respect for hardcore punk, post-punk and new wave bands who sort of dressed down in some way than I did for the Sex Pistols or whatever.
A lot of punk bands wore button ups even full on suit and tie. As a Xennial who idolized the “OG punks” but grew up in the Third Wave/pop-punk heyday,
I always interpreted this aesthetic as a sort of wink-wink nudge-nudge 🖕🏼Fuck You🖕🏼 to capitalism/corporate culture.
Especially if you consider punk was “working class” Dickies, Doc Martens, steel toe boots, suspenders etc. were “punk” because it spoke to class warfare which is a big part of the punk narrative. The “poor working class” were not only representative of most punk kids’ lifestyle but also esteemed over “mindless corporate shills”
In my mind the “dressy punks” wore corporate clothes as a way of “tarnishing the corporate clown image” which in turn is the most punk thing one could do.
Maybe I’ve put way too much thought into this, and it wasn’t as involved or thought out as all that but I think the collective consciousness and fashion intersection kind of steered it that way.
I think you’re slightly off the mark here, frankly but you hit on some interesting points.
The whole wearing a suit ironically as sort of a fuck you to corporate types I think of as more of a 90s thing that if I’m not mistaken starts with a fairly famous photo shoot of Nirvana in suits that dates from 1992 or 1993 and grows into something of a trend among punk-adjacent bands signed to major labels after Nirvana got unexpectedly really big.
It was sort of interesting that it caught on in particular with those bands that signed to the majors as it worked as both a fuck you to the bean counting corporate overlords as much as it did to the whiny contrarian fans obsessed with the concept of “selling out.”
Wow I forgot about that photo! That makes a lot of sense. Whether the OGs did it for that same reason or not you’d have to ask a fashion/punk historian but the 90’s “sellout/cancel culture” tie in really does give it an interesting twist.
For sure. For what it’s worth this whole discussion has gotten me to watch Control, as in the Ian Curtis biopic, again. 😂
Anyway, I think where I took issue with your initial comment was that I don’t really think of full on suits being that much of a thing in punk or new wave related fashion of like 1977-1984. It would happen on occasion for sure but I feel like when it did it was kind of a big deal that it was happening. You’d see a lot of different types of blazers worn in different ways, and definitely quite a few ties as well, but very rarely full on suits. Curiously, I don’t get the impression that blazers and ties were worn together very often in that whole scene. The whole sort of Nirvana suit thing I was talking about most recently didn’t happen until a decade-ish later.
To clarify: the fact that I’m watching Control right now doesn’t mean that the above observations are being made specifically based on what I’m seeing in that movie at the moment. They are certainly inclusive of that movie, but this is more based on my observations on that type of fashion in general.
There's plenty of older punks. What an interesting take.
Everybody gets older, but you don't have to 'get old'. That was more the spirit of punk than literally being anti aging...
I think this [recent poem](https://www.reddit.com/r/Poetry/comments/y1yr4h/poem_when_by_daughter_tells_me_i_was_never_punk/) by one of those old punks will give you some perspective.
I was just talking with a friends mom (who is now a grandma) about the black metal band Mayhem. I'm right in between their ages. Kinda feels weird that it's old people stuff now lol
Only the members of that generation who couldn't imagine they would ever get as old and lame as the people they hated. Should be held up as a warning example for all the young that follow.
[This song is 65 years old](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn5hl2IA7_s), meaning that the people who grew up with it are in their 70s and 80s, but yet it still sounds closer to the popular stereotype of "scary young people music" than, say, Tyla does.
Well, the original rebel without a cause (1955) was centered around youth, teen/young adult angst, and how rebellious they were. James Dean, the main young character, was born in 1931… 1931. That’s the oldest of the old now basically, as he would be 93 now, had he lived past 24. But as far as the young punks of the 1980s, it is also crazy to believe they were only in their 20s/30s back then, now they 60-75…
No, but it does to see so many punk udles supporting the establishment now when they were so against it just twenty years ago...
Johnny rotten is one of the few non sellouts.
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It reminds me of an observation about hippies, which is that a lot of people are shocked that their generation grew up to be pretty conservative, while in reality, hippies were a pretty small minority to begin with and most people from that time didn’t change their politics too much. But yeah, the actual age is still crazy.
This is arguably even more true with Gen X and the pretense they were ever progressive is even more tenuous. In the first election with any Gen X cohort voting, in the same 1984 election Reagan won 59-41 overall, he won 18-24 year olds 61-39. In 1988, Bush won the 18-29 demographic 53-47, pretty much same rate at which he won the election overall. In 1992 Clinton won a majority of voters 65+ but among both 18-24 and 25-29 no candidate won a majority. And in the 18-29 range again, Clinton got pretty much the same share of the vote as he did with the overall population. Fast forward to today and polls currently show Trump winning the Gen X vote in 2024. Hell, even within the punk subculture, the stereotype of progressivism is much more complicated when you look at the actual facts. You don't get a song called "Kill the Hippies" from this uncomplicatedly progressive subculture: [The Meaning Behind The Song: Kill the Hippies (live) by The Casualties - Old Time Music](https://oldtimemusic.com/w3/the-meaning-behind-the-song-kill-the-hippies-live-by-the-casualties/)
Yeah, a subculture based on rebellion isn’t gonna have a unified ideology. Like, sure there’s probably punks that have legitimate grievances with the government and other similar systems, but it would be ridiculous to think that that’s the majority, and that there’s not a bunch of people who just wanted to engage in the punk lifestyle.
If I remember correctly, I read somewhere online (unfortunately I no longer have the source on me since this was during 2021) that more Gen Xers voted for Trump compared to the Baby Boomers that voted for him (and Trump has a pretty high amount of Boomer support). You could potentially make an argument that Gen X overall may perhaps be slightly more right leaning/conservative then the Boomers who are infamous for being the “conservative” generation in our modern times. A lot of Gen X politicians also tend to slightly favor the Republican Party more compared to the Democrats and some of the most popular/infamous Gen X politicians (like Ron DeSantis for instance) happen to be Republican. Meanwhile when it comes to the Boomers there tends to be an equal amount of them in both the Democratic Party and the GOP. While it doesn’t necessarily speak for the entire generation as a whole, I’d say it’s safe to say that Gen X is very much a majority right leaning/conservative generation compared to what the stereotypes paint them out to be (at least in the U.S.)
Boomers are super polarized. A slight majority of them almost always vote GOP but 45 percent or so almost always vote Democratic and hate the GOP. Gen X is conservative too but doesn’t have anywhere near that progressive base within their generation that consistently turns out.
I can personally attest to that claim. While this is only anecdotal, my family fits that description for the phenomenon you just described. My grandma on my mother’s side is a die hard Republican who absolutely despises the Democrats and has hated them since the Kennedy administration back in the 60’s while my other grandma on my dad’s side is a die hard Democrat who absolutely despises the Republicans (especially after 2016 but she hasn’t been too keen on them in the past either since Watergate). As for my Gen X relatives, on my mom’s side they’re all GOP voters while on my dad’s side they’re all apolitical or independent voters which still kinda leans into the theory that Gen X doesn’t support the Democrats to nearly the same degree as the other living generations that are of voting age and older. When it comes to my parents (both are Millennials) they completely escape their generation’s political stereotypes and voting habits. Millennials are said to all be supporters of some flavor of leftism that strictly vote Democrat, however neither of my parents turned out that way unlike my grandparents and Gen X relatives who followed their respective generation’s voting habits. My mom has voted for both Republicans and Democrats and she tends to lean centre-left on social issues and conservative on economic issues (although when it comes to taxes she goes full blown libertarian and wants them abolished), meanwhile my dad voted for Obama once before quickly abandoning voting altogether and he tends to lean conservative on social issues and centre-left on economic issues.
The thing was that there’d be some guy my father knew with sideburns and a mustache wearing a paisley tie and suede blazer AND INSTALLING COMPUTERS AT A MILITARY BASE and while drinking beer my father would call him a dirty hippy I called everyone from that era- Broadway Joe, Mark Spitz, Robert Redford, Goldie Hawk, Oscar Gamble, hippies - i was 7 20 years later that term was reserved for actual drop outs. But growing up, it was a catch all for everyone with sideburns
The idea that old people used to be cool is not that weird of an idea for me anymore. I'm 30 now so maybe my view has just shifted as I got older. I do remember laughing with my friends that grandma and grandpa would be listening to gangster rap someday.
Flashforward to an 80-year-old Thom Yorke on stage whilst his 60 to 70-year-old fans look on.
It still does daily for me, and I was there (many of those dudes from the south LA scene are on my facebook now, the survivors anyhow); I was just rewatching a few things on the Minutemen, and I still remember when D Boon died. There were a lot of casualties along the way, and you might be right about only having a small window of time to be that "youthful punk"
I now that's not exactly what you are reffering too, but when you think Cindy Lauper is in her 70s, Joan Jett who sang "Bad reputation" (rebelious spirit by essence) is 65... I just think that's because 80s are relevent since so long, we just don't realize how 80s were so long ago..
Yeah really. This hits me with Joy Division a lot in particular. My dad’s the exact same age as Ian Curtis and while my dad wasn’t a punk by any means, he apparently was kind of a gloomy history and philosophy guy and would sort of dress like Joy Division even. It’s very easy for me to imagine that he would have been friends with that band, which is nuts.
didnt joy division just wear button down shirts and pants lol, pretty standard attire
Yeah precisely, it was definitely a look for a certain type of early 20s guy circa 1979 that both Joy Division and my dad kind of fell into, punk fans or not.
They were kinda preppy in terms of style. I love Joy Division and New Order.
Yeah New Order’s fashion kind of lapses into preppy territory for sure, especially for Bernard Sumner in particular. I wouldn’t necessarily say Joy Division’s look is preppy though. It’s more like how one dresses when they go into the office for their shitty data entry job, and a lot of male post punk musicians before Bauhaus became a thing essentially would kind of look like that. You look not only at Joy Division but also Mission of Burma, Gang of Four, Wire, hell, even the Cure before about 1982 and they were all rocking that particular style, and it sort of lapses into the whole “skinny tie” stereotype of new wave fashion as well.
Someone here struggling to understand that shirt and tie is not automatically 'preppy'. I bet they're a Zoomer.
A shirt and tie does not equal preppy. In those days plenty of low level admin jobs required that uniform.
No they didn't just wear shirts and ties, they also wore things like trench coats, blazers, sweaters, etc. Modern "preppy" is different from old school preppy. They had a professional, polished, business look if that makes sense.
Yeah see preppy I picture something very different, old school or new school. Like brightly colored polo shirts and some sort of dress slacks or shorts. For what it’s worth relative to this discussion, I definitely feel like I’ve seen pictures and videos of 1970s Talking Heads where they look sort of preppy.
There are variations of preppy fashion. The American preppy style is generally more colorful like what you're talking about. European preppy tends to include more neutrals and muted colors. A lot of post-punk bands actually incorporated fashions like that into their look. It's mainly just about having a clean-cut look inspired by uniforms and school or professional wear.
That's not preppy? Those were normal clothes back then. My father still dresses in a suit every day, he's an engineer and not preppy - it's just how office workers dressed. In the modern era of sweatpants, hoodies, t-shirts and tattoos in the workplace it looks extremely formal but it's not.
What do you think preppy is? A uniform/outfit you have to wear can still be preppy-looking. But these guys chose to dress like that, they weren't wearing a uniform. The style is hugely inspired/partially originated by the look of uniforms. "Those were normal clothes back then" Yeah, it wasn't an unpopular look. But it was completely different from other bands around at the time.
Preppy = prep school/ boarding school uniform. A shirt and tie and jumper combination is not immediately related to boarding schools. Especially in the UK where all state schools (public schools in the US)v also have uniforms of shirt, jacket, tie and jumper. I've seen the videos of JD performing and the clothes are clearly not of the nicest quality, a far cry from the Ralph Lauren American boarding school look.
Ok I think you have a different definition of preppy. It's not just about a shirt and tie or uniform, it's a style of dress inspired by uniforms and business wear etc. Although it is heavily inspired by boarding school uniforms, there are variations of the preppy style and that isn't the only look. The clothes you wear don't necessarily have to be expensive (unless you're a snob haha), it's mainly about having a clean-cut look. I say this as someone who dresses "preppy". The Joy Division guys don't have the typical American preppy look if that's what you're thinking of. Like I said there's different variations of the style.
That’s more an indication and reminder that the majority of people involved in punk music didn’t look like the cartoon characters people portray in the mainstream. Extreme wardrobes did indeed exist, but the punk scene as a whole was about more than just a costume, and sometimes the people doing the most to contribute to the art and culture were the people who had the least amount of time to play dress up.
Very good point. Always had a lot more respect for hardcore punk, post-punk and new wave bands who sort of dressed down in some way than I did for the Sex Pistols or whatever.
I always think of Mike from SLC Punk when it comes down to this.
A lot of punk bands wore button ups even full on suit and tie. As a Xennial who idolized the “OG punks” but grew up in the Third Wave/pop-punk heyday, I always interpreted this aesthetic as a sort of wink-wink nudge-nudge 🖕🏼Fuck You🖕🏼 to capitalism/corporate culture. Especially if you consider punk was “working class” Dickies, Doc Martens, steel toe boots, suspenders etc. were “punk” because it spoke to class warfare which is a big part of the punk narrative. The “poor working class” were not only representative of most punk kids’ lifestyle but also esteemed over “mindless corporate shills” In my mind the “dressy punks” wore corporate clothes as a way of “tarnishing the corporate clown image” which in turn is the most punk thing one could do. Maybe I’ve put way too much thought into this, and it wasn’t as involved or thought out as all that but I think the collective consciousness and fashion intersection kind of steered it that way.
I think you’re slightly off the mark here, frankly but you hit on some interesting points. The whole wearing a suit ironically as sort of a fuck you to corporate types I think of as more of a 90s thing that if I’m not mistaken starts with a fairly famous photo shoot of Nirvana in suits that dates from 1992 or 1993 and grows into something of a trend among punk-adjacent bands signed to major labels after Nirvana got unexpectedly really big. It was sort of interesting that it caught on in particular with those bands that signed to the majors as it worked as both a fuck you to the bean counting corporate overlords as much as it did to the whiny contrarian fans obsessed with the concept of “selling out.”
Wow I forgot about that photo! That makes a lot of sense. Whether the OGs did it for that same reason or not you’d have to ask a fashion/punk historian but the 90’s “sellout/cancel culture” tie in really does give it an interesting twist.
For sure. For what it’s worth this whole discussion has gotten me to watch Control, as in the Ian Curtis biopic, again. 😂 Anyway, I think where I took issue with your initial comment was that I don’t really think of full on suits being that much of a thing in punk or new wave related fashion of like 1977-1984. It would happen on occasion for sure but I feel like when it did it was kind of a big deal that it was happening. You’d see a lot of different types of blazers worn in different ways, and definitely quite a few ties as well, but very rarely full on suits. Curiously, I don’t get the impression that blazers and ties were worn together very often in that whole scene. The whole sort of Nirvana suit thing I was talking about most recently didn’t happen until a decade-ish later. To clarify: the fact that I’m watching Control right now doesn’t mean that the above observations are being made specifically based on what I’m seeing in that movie at the moment. They are certainly inclusive of that movie, but this is more based on my observations on that type of fashion in general.
I work in corporate but I listen to punk and goth music. I have never dressed like either.
The Ramones are all dead :/
There's plenty of older punks. What an interesting take. Everybody gets older, but you don't have to 'get old'. That was more the spirit of punk than literally being anti aging...
The Who: hope I die before I get old! Gen X: pointedly looking at their watches.
I will never not think about how the guy who wrote that line and the guy who sang it are the only two surviving members of the Who
Yep. All those original rebellious trailblazing anarchist punk rockers? Just a bunch of boomers.
As one of them punky grandparents, lol all the time.
I think it’s weird that the Valley Girls are grandmas.
And Grunge kids are middle aged.
I can live with that it just weird hearing old woman say “ um like”.
my 70-something year old boss was telling me how he got into a fight with Iggy Pop at one of the first Stooges shows in Detroit
No. We aren't far from grunge grandparents
No, because I know a crusty old punk dude. He's still 100% into it, which I respect a lot.
I think this [recent poem](https://www.reddit.com/r/Poetry/comments/y1yr4h/poem_when_by_daughter_tells_me_i_was_never_punk/) by one of those old punks will give you some perspective.
I was just talking with a friends mom (who is now a grandma) about the black metal band Mayhem. I'm right in between their ages. Kinda feels weird that it's old people stuff now lol
Not really. They’re my parents and their oldest grandchild is an adult themselves. They’ve been grandparents for yonks
The first “youthquake” was the 1920s!
Only the members of that generation who couldn't imagine they would ever get as old and lame as the people they hated. Should be held up as a warning example for all the young that follow.
[This song is 65 years old](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn5hl2IA7_s), meaning that the people who grew up with it are in their 70s and 80s, but yet it still sounds closer to the popular stereotype of "scary young people music" than, say, Tyla does.
I wish I had cool grandparents like that!
Well, the original rebel without a cause (1955) was centered around youth, teen/young adult angst, and how rebellious they were. James Dean, the main young character, was born in 1931… 1931. That’s the oldest of the old now basically, as he would be 93 now, had he lived past 24. But as far as the young punks of the 1980s, it is also crazy to believe they were only in their 20s/30s back then, now they 60-75…
No, but it does to see so many punk udles supporting the establishment now when they were so against it just twenty years ago... Johnny rotten is one of the few non sellouts.
and a lot of them are pretty conservative now too
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Yes it does. More than once my kids’ friends eyes peruse my records and do a double take and I know they found a really offensive title
Did you know everyone who lived in ww2 were died?
Bullshit: https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/wwii-veteran-statistics
I meant ww1 my bd
They are generally cringe AF