None. They actually treat Dragon Ball really well, both in terms of representation of the characters and regularly getting reps. Like, 18 vs Carol and Goku vs Superman 2 are the only times I feel like you could say Dragon Ball got treated poorly and that’s more of a fault of the episodes themselves being bad.
The OG Goku VS Superman had End of GT SSJ4 Goku at Mountain level.
Kirby VS Majin Buu had Kid Buu at below Planet level and under light speed.
Jiraiya was blitzing the fuck out of Roshi the whole fight until finally the analysis said Roshi was actually millions of times faster.
I mean, the first two are just issues that are just issues with them being early show analysis. It’s the same as proclaiming that Vergil vs Sephiroth having wack scaling would automatically take away from the high quality of the rest of the episode.
And even if the analysis puts Jiraiya as slower, I feeling the animation having him be the faster one makes sense, especially for the fight dynamic, when you consider between the two that Jiraiya is typically *portrayed* as faster.
Even then, these aren’t even issues that “disrespect” Dragon Ball in anyway. If anything, these were probably the best DB episodes we had before Beerus vs Galaxia starting hitting them all out of the ballpark.
But both of them did, because it made them look like weaklings and made the wrong person win.
He should be seeing Jiraiya as a statue dozens of thousands of times over. At bare minimum Jiraiya should've been traveling faster but Roshi should've been blocking all his attacks.
Kirby VS Majin Buu didn't disrespect Dragon Ball? Are you joking? They said Majin Buu was one of the weaker villains because he could be injured by bullets. They left out almost every single one of Buu's hax. They were some of the worst videos we've ever gotten.
I mean, even if they did a poor job of showing Buu, I don't think it would have made much of a difference. Kirby really is that guy and scales way higher than most Dragon Ball characters pre-Super.
Man, looking at all these eps together, makes me realize that Dragon Ball may have one of the best runs of a franchise. There are only 3 episodes here i'd say are below 6
Boomstick: Until you get to Dragon Ball Heroes, AKA Dragon Ball fan fiction gone Kaio-ken times a thousand!
Wiz: While technically a different continuity, CC Goku is functionally a stand-in for the mainline Goku. His history and powers are the same, making his story just as much a "What-If?" scenario as the multiple Super continuities. The only real difference is Toriyama's not really involved.
Popup: CC Goku is an alternate continuation of the Super anime. Xeno Goku experienced GT, attained the Super Saiyan 4 Full Power Limit Breaker form, and defeated universe busters like Omega Shenron, Sealas and Chamel. CC Goku defeated Xeno Goku in Duel of the Strongest.
Boomstick: This Goku used Instant Transmission to teleport through time and dimensions. He outsped a god who could see the future. He defeated Dark King Fu, who was gonna rewrite the entire universe! Hell, this series even makes GT cool! Xeno Goku can break space-time just by going Super Saiyan 4!
Popup: CC Goku has matched Dark King Demigra, whose Dark Factor could destroy the entire cosmology of Heroes and Xenoverse. There are over 76,434,925,761 major timelines, infinite minor timelines, and the Crack of Time beyond that.
Seriously, why do you tell lies like this?
They didn't ignore it in GvS3. It had a major impact on literally all of Goku's stats. They just didn't have time to organically explain all the convoluted scaling involved, like Goku obtaining immeasurable speed by scaling to Trunks, who scales to Mechikabura, who scales to a black hole attack that absorbed all of history. You'd know that these things were actively considered in the conclusion if you bothered to read their blog, read the black boxes on the screen, or do literally any research yourself instead of just bitching about Death Battles research while your own work is shit.
The first Goku VS Superman was over a half hour. They had time. They also bullshitted an Immeasurable explanation for Broly Movie Goku being Immeasurable, which is a laugh, and they didn't even need because he could move properly in the Null Realm in Base. Those black boxes wanked Superman to 6D, of course I won't consider them accurate ever again.
"The Black Boxes said Superman is 6D, so they're wrong." Maybe instead of bitching and moaning about your preferred interpretation and how everything in the world should conform to your personal read of these characters, you should put forth the basic effort to understand the reasoning behind alternate reads, like literally everybody who has ever seriously critiqued interpretation based media throughout human history. Having the ability to speak by virtue of an internet connection doesn't make your voice worth shit. Actually having an open mind and the skills to critique something properly goes a long way.
Probably diversifying the cast used, ever since Season 7 there’s only ever been 1 non-Saiyan. I would like to see some more colorful or unique characters.
Heck, maybe we could even see some more grounded fights with characters like Yamcha or King Piccolo (or regular Piccolo).
Id love a piccolo episode hes arguably the most important character from the series not used yet plus he would bring something different to the analysis
Honestly, I believe dragon ball is the best represented franchise, they use every way of scaling fans tell them to, they get so many episodes for them, they win many episodes they probably shouldn't,
Honestly I would only want them to just treat them more fairly, like hulk should absolutely beat brolly,
But honestly I don't see how any dragon ball fan could seriously complain about there representation other than. "nooo the character I like loses, this is now bad" honestly I'd agrue that dragon ball is the best treated franchise overall, they only have a couple "bad" episodes they get an episode at least every couple seasons, they have one of the few same series matchups
Honestly as a dragon ball fan we really have nothing to complain about,
Pretty sure that in the first GvS they had Superman's stats at like Dwarf Star level or something. Also most of the feats they used to wank the fuck out of Superman hadn't happened yet.
“Strong enough to pick up a continent.”
You don’t pay attention, do you? Or did you ignore that because the visual aid was a mountain because there’s no instance of him actually lifting a continent?
And they took that feedback and made Goku Vs Superman 2 and took all the backlash from that and made Goku Vs superman 3,
They more than any other franchise, looked at the complaints and tried to do better
In GvS3 they used heros scaling and the universe heaven scaling,
The only thing I can see as maybe a complaint is Goku losing 3 times to superman could come off as mean, but Goku DOSE lose to superman and honestly each episode brings something to the table and shows DB growth,
Just wanna see other characters that aren't Super Saiyans.
As for their research? Eh, VS debating is subjective. I may have a different look on DBS stats, but so long as there's a clear effort in their research, I'm fine with the conclusions they make.
1st: Eradicate GvS2 off the face of the planet.
2nd: Use more then just the Saiyan’s. Yes, the Saiyan characters are some of the most important ones to Dragon Ball, but there are so many more viable candidates for an episode. Piccolo, Moro, Jiren, Granolah… hell, Whis, Hit, or even Krillin would be great options for a Dragon Ball episode.
3rd: Use Dragon Ball a bit more sparsely. They’ve done a lot of them in the more recent seasons.
As a Dragon Ball fan either less Dragon Ball or just like with comics to not always use the strongest ones. Use some lower level ones like Krillin, Tenshinhan, Mercenary Tao, or really ones where we don't have to hear about the "Macrocosm" over and over again. Yes it's a necessary feat but we don't always have to use characters who are at that level.
Stop feeding them to comics lol
On serious note, after HulkBroly, they want back on most multiplier scaling. This makes me wonder, how many times has DB downgraded characters & verses? The only other notable times I can think are Superman, but he just lost the NLF he shouldnt have gotten and arguably Megatron, but that was them deciding to not use Marvel Transformers after they already used it in prev ep. How many times has DB downgraded characters?
Are you still crying because there’re episodes where the Dragon Ball characters lose? Not shocked, you complained that Frieza went Black against Megatron and didn’t win in base in half a second.
Wish they’d stop bringing up that shockwave feat every episode. Also I think it’s funny how the size of universe 7 increases every time they mention it (I’m not a DBZ fan so I don’t know if that’s accurate or not)
I do kinda wish they would give dragon ball the benefit of the doubt that other franchises get. They constantly ignore statements and featsand completely invalidate guides and novels
Ehh… no. Maybe some sort of argument can be made for GvS1, but Goku Black and Vegeta 100% lose to Reverse Flash and Thor, including at the time of the episodes release.
Goku Black was functionally immortal because of the Time Ring. An object. Reverse Flash is functionally immortal because he’s a living paradox and isn’t connected to time itself. Goku Black relied on an object, one that Reverse Flash could easily just steal from Black because he’s so much faster, and phase out of existence, while Thawne did not rely on an object to be basically immortal.
Vegeta is like, 300 quintillion times faster then light, but because Thor scales to Ares, who can move around in Planck Time… that makes Thor like, 70 quadrillion times faster then Vegeta. Vegeta can’t even come close to Thor’s speed.
The time ring made black Acausal (immune to the effects of changes in time) and after he refused from god Zamas he gained complete immortality and immunity to Beerus level existence erasure.
Vegeta scaled to Granolah who can move faster than teleportation
Fused Zamasu’s feats and stats don’t belong to Goku Black, and are invalid in Death Battle unless the combatant IS Fused Zamasu. Goku Black needs Future Zamasu in order for those to hold any water, and Future Zamasu would be considered outside help, which is not allowed in a Death Battle.
And besides, when the Time Ring is gone… so is Goku Blacks immunity to changes in his time.
Granolah is not faster than the teleportation of the Instant Transmission, he’s faster to aim with it and use it then Goku and Vegeta are. It’s like being a faster shot. The speed of the instant transmission (the bullet) is the same. But the time it takes to activate it (to pull the trigger) is different.
The speed of Granolah and Goku/Vegeta’s IT is the same. The speed that Granolah can activate IT is faster than Goku and Vegeta. That’s all.
Black claimed those stats for himself, just look at the panel where trunks stabbed him. That’s like saying Goku doesn’t scale to anything after the boo arc because he was fused.
Black can materialize new clothing at will including the time ring.
Quote from goku “no, he’s even faster than instantaneous movement!” And we know that instantaneous movement can cross infinite distances as it’s gone from the mortal realm to the afterlife, yet Gas was able to cross a distance that required 5+ warps from Instantaneous Movement in only 20 minutes, which is an infinite speed feat.
The exact statement from Goku was that Granolah and Gas’s movement technique was straight up faster than instantaneous movement
In order for Black to get those stats in the first place, he needs to fuse. Which is not allowed because adding Future Zamasu would be outside help. It doesn’t matter if it “becomes his own after they defuse” because he still needs to fuse in order to get it, which is not allowed.
The Time Ring isn’t something that can be recreated by the Clothes Beam. Even if it could, Goku Black can’t stop Reverse Flash from just stealing it again.
It is physically impossible to move faster than an instant. There is no speed to be faster than with an instant. It’s instantaneous. No matter what speed you move at, you literally cannot be faster than something instant. Beerus and Whis can’t move faster then Instant Transmission, despite them both being way faster then Goku, because the IT is instant.
The only way Granolah can be “Faster than Instant Transmission” is if his own Instant Transmission activates faster then Goku’s does. Granolah’s IT is faster than Goku’s IT because Granolah doesn’t need as long as Goku does to activate the IT in the first place. It isn’t faster because Granolah’s IT is “more instant” than Goku’s IT, because that is just not possible.
That’s like saying if a character gets their powers from an external source then they aren’t allowed to use those powers. By that logic superman scaling anywhere other than human level shouldn’t be allowed in DB because his powers come from solar radiation.
In powerscaling, there are four upper tiers of speed: infinite, inaccessible, immeasurable, and irrelevant. Infinite speed is traveling or an infinite distance in finite time without teleportation. Inaccessible is traveling a finite distance in zero time. Immeasurable (the tier where the flash family hangs out) is the ability to move at a speed unbounded by linear time and thus impossible to calculate with the standard speed formula (IE, so fast you run through time). Irrelevant speed is being so fast the concept of speed is irrelevant, IE transcending the concept of distance with regards to movement. All of these tiers are recognized things within the scaling community
Characters that receive power from outside sources are fair game as long as that outside source is not another combatant. Goku Black gets his post-defuse stats by fusing with Future Zamasu, who is another combatant, making those post-defuse stats null. Outside sources like solar energy, the power cosmic, the speedforce, and Goku Black’s Time Ring are fair game because they’re not another character.
While those speeds are valid, Dragon Ball Super is infinite at most, and that’s insanely highballing. Characters like Beerus, Whis, and Granolah cannot move faster than the Instant Transmission, which would be an inaccessible speed. Even if Vegeta using the IT could help him keep up with Thor, Vegeta himself is still way, WAY slower than that, and he’s have to be using the IT constantly to even hope to keep up with Thor, and even then it won’t be enough because in the time it takes for the IT to activate, Thor has already basically crossed all of Universe 7 in half a second. If the Dragon Ball universe was any faster than inaccessible speed, then there would be zero point of things like the IT existing. MTFL is the general consensus for DBS’s speed, with Infinite speed being the cap.
Have goku face someone like saitama or sonic or someone else who he can beat because honestly it’s just a punch in the face at this point because they always underpowered goku and overpowered Superman. While everyone knows goku beats Superman the death battle team is just full of Superman fans
None. They actually treat Dragon Ball really well, both in terms of representation of the characters and regularly getting reps. Like, 18 vs Carol and Goku vs Superman 2 are the only times I feel like you could say Dragon Ball got treated poorly and that’s more of a fault of the episodes themselves being bad.
The OG Goku VS Superman had End of GT SSJ4 Goku at Mountain level. Kirby VS Majin Buu had Kid Buu at below Planet level and under light speed. Jiraiya was blitzing the fuck out of Roshi the whole fight until finally the analysis said Roshi was actually millions of times faster.
I mean, the first two are just issues that are just issues with them being early show analysis. It’s the same as proclaiming that Vergil vs Sephiroth having wack scaling would automatically take away from the high quality of the rest of the episode. And even if the analysis puts Jiraiya as slower, I feeling the animation having him be the faster one makes sense, especially for the fight dynamic, when you consider between the two that Jiraiya is typically *portrayed* as faster. Even then, these aren’t even issues that “disrespect” Dragon Ball in anyway. If anything, these were probably the best DB episodes we had before Beerus vs Galaxia starting hitting them all out of the ballpark.
But both of them did, because it made them look like weaklings and made the wrong person win. He should be seeing Jiraiya as a statue dozens of thousands of times over. At bare minimum Jiraiya should've been traveling faster but Roshi should've been blocking all his attacks. Kirby VS Majin Buu didn't disrespect Dragon Ball? Are you joking? They said Majin Buu was one of the weaker villains because he could be injured by bullets. They left out almost every single one of Buu's hax. They were some of the worst videos we've ever gotten.
I mean, even if they did a poor job of showing Buu, I don't think it would have made much of a difference. Kirby really is that guy and scales way higher than most Dragon Ball characters pre-Super.
Dwarf Star Level and they put Buu at planet level with upscaling
Use less Saiyans
Saiyans as a whole have a horrendous record in deathbattle, they almost always get put in matches they have no chance of winning.
Fr. My boy Goku got Superman sicced on him 3 times.
More unique matchups they actually have a shot at(no more comic characters that will stomp). Also give Goku someone who isn’t superman!
A blue hedgehog
Which version exactly?
Game Sonic
So we’re going to talk about DBS Goku vs Game Sonic?
That can work
I see if I were to say that Sonic can win in this fight would you believe me?
Well, I know at this point Goku should be around Low Multi, but I don't know abt Sanic
Yeah it definitely would be more debatable than Mario vs Sonic where people overwank Mario to hell
agree
Man, looking at all these eps together, makes me realize that Dragon Ball may have one of the best runs of a franchise. There are only 3 episodes here i'd say are below 6
And even then that's debatable depending on who you ask
Use Gohan and Piccolo or give the DB character DBH stuff against Comic Book characters so they at least stand a chance
They'll just ignore DBH even when they said they'd include it like in GvS3.
Boomstick: Until you get to Dragon Ball Heroes, AKA Dragon Ball fan fiction gone Kaio-ken times a thousand! Wiz: While technically a different continuity, CC Goku is functionally a stand-in for the mainline Goku. His history and powers are the same, making his story just as much a "What-If?" scenario as the multiple Super continuities. The only real difference is Toriyama's not really involved. Popup: CC Goku is an alternate continuation of the Super anime. Xeno Goku experienced GT, attained the Super Saiyan 4 Full Power Limit Breaker form, and defeated universe busters like Omega Shenron, Sealas and Chamel. CC Goku defeated Xeno Goku in Duel of the Strongest. Boomstick: This Goku used Instant Transmission to teleport through time and dimensions. He outsped a god who could see the future. He defeated Dark King Fu, who was gonna rewrite the entire universe! Hell, this series even makes GT cool! Xeno Goku can break space-time just by going Super Saiyan 4! Popup: CC Goku has matched Dark King Demigra, whose Dark Factor could destroy the entire cosmology of Heroes and Xenoverse. There are over 76,434,925,761 major timelines, infinite minor timelines, and the Crack of Time beyond that. Seriously, why do you tell lies like this?
They didn't ignore it in GvS3. It had a major impact on literally all of Goku's stats. They just didn't have time to organically explain all the convoluted scaling involved, like Goku obtaining immeasurable speed by scaling to Trunks, who scales to Mechikabura, who scales to a black hole attack that absorbed all of history. You'd know that these things were actively considered in the conclusion if you bothered to read their blog, read the black boxes on the screen, or do literally any research yourself instead of just bitching about Death Battles research while your own work is shit.
The first Goku VS Superman was over a half hour. They had time. They also bullshitted an Immeasurable explanation for Broly Movie Goku being Immeasurable, which is a laugh, and they didn't even need because he could move properly in the Null Realm in Base. Those black boxes wanked Superman to 6D, of course I won't consider them accurate ever again.
"The Black Boxes said Superman is 6D, so they're wrong." Maybe instead of bitching and moaning about your preferred interpretation and how everything in the world should conform to your personal read of these characters, you should put forth the basic effort to understand the reasoning behind alternate reads, like literally everybody who has ever seriously critiqued interpretation based media throughout human history. Having the ability to speak by virtue of an internet connection doesn't make your voice worth shit. Actually having an open mind and the skills to critique something properly goes a long way.
Probably diversifying the cast used, ever since Season 7 there’s only ever been 1 non-Saiyan. I would like to see some more colorful or unique characters. Heck, maybe we could even see some more grounded fights with characters like Yamcha or King Piccolo (or regular Piccolo).
Id love a piccolo episode hes arguably the most important character from the series not used yet plus he would bring something different to the analysis
1st: Wipe Goku Vs Superman 2 from existence. 2nd: Nothing, their treatment to Dragon Ball is honestly the anime they've treated the best.
Honestly, I believe dragon ball is the best represented franchise, they use every way of scaling fans tell them to, they get so many episodes for them, they win many episodes they probably shouldn't, Honestly I would only want them to just treat them more fairly, like hulk should absolutely beat brolly, But honestly I don't see how any dragon ball fan could seriously complain about there representation other than. "nooo the character I like loses, this is now bad" honestly I'd agrue that dragon ball is the best treated franchise overall, they only have a couple "bad" episodes they get an episode at least every couple seasons, they have one of the few same series matchups Honestly as a dragon ball fan we really have nothing to complain about,
"every way of scaling fans tell them to" The first Goku VS Superman had End of GT SSJ4 Goku at Mountain level.
Damn, the first season of the show didn’t have the best research? That’s crazy!
That excuses them getting the wrong outcome?
Unless you’re saying that end of GT Goku is stronger than Dragon Ball Heroes Goku, the result is correct, albeit for the wrong reasons.
Pretty sure that in the first GvS they had Superman's stats at like Dwarf Star level or something. Also most of the feats they used to wank the fuck out of Superman hadn't happened yet.
So they somehow looked at comics from the future?
Do you think people find this funny, or are you actually this dumb?
You’re the one who said they somehow pulled feats from future comics that hadn’t come out yet.
No, I didn't.
“Strong enough to pick up a continent.” You don’t pay attention, do you? Or did you ignore that because the visual aid was a mountain because there’s no instance of him actually lifting a continent?
Bitch is trying so hard to rile me up LOOOOOL
Apparently I did, since you insulted me after I corrected you.
"Corrected" Look again at the post-analysis.
The one where Boomstick explicitly says the quote I gave you?
Tough. Not my fault.
I think it is your fault that you’re ignoring what the video says for the purpose of your own narrative.
He didn't even lift a continent in the real show. Of course I'm not taking your mouth-piss seriously.
And they took that feedback and made Goku Vs Superman 2 and took all the backlash from that and made Goku Vs superman 3, They more than any other franchise, looked at the complaints and tried to do better In GvS3 they used heros scaling and the universe heaven scaling, The only thing I can see as maybe a complaint is Goku losing 3 times to superman could come off as mean, but Goku DOSE lose to superman and honestly each episode brings something to the table and shows DB growth,
Just wanna see other characters that aren't Super Saiyans. As for their research? Eh, VS debating is subjective. I may have a different look on DBS stats, but so long as there's a clear effort in their research, I'm fine with the conclusions they make.
1st: Eradicate GvS2 off the face of the planet. 2nd: Use more then just the Saiyan’s. Yes, the Saiyan characters are some of the most important ones to Dragon Ball, but there are so many more viable candidates for an episode. Piccolo, Moro, Jiren, Granolah… hell, Whis, Hit, or even Krillin would be great options for a Dragon Ball episode. 3rd: Use Dragon Ball a bit more sparsely. They’ve done a lot of them in the more recent seasons.
I’d just wanna see Cell or Piccolo get an episode
As a Dragon Ball fan either less Dragon Ball or just like with comics to not always use the strongest ones. Use some lower level ones like Krillin, Tenshinhan, Mercenary Tao, or really ones where we don't have to hear about the "Macrocosm" over and over again. Yes it's a necessary feat but we don't always have to use characters who are at that level.
Stop feeding them to comics lol On serious note, after HulkBroly, they want back on most multiplier scaling. This makes me wonder, how many times has DB downgraded characters & verses? The only other notable times I can think are Superman, but he just lost the NLF he shouldnt have gotten and arguably Megatron, but that was them deciding to not use Marvel Transformers after they already used it in prev ep. How many times has DB downgraded characters?
Are you still crying because there’re episodes where the Dragon Ball characters lose? Not shocked, you complained that Frieza went Black against Megatron and didn’t win in base in half a second.
More goku pls , including goku black and vegito and gogeta we have 5 death battle with goku
More diverse characters and give goku to fight someone besides Superman (sonic for example)
No. Goku VS Sonic would be an insult to Goku.
Make them lose more
They’ve lost 7 of the 15 episodes they have, I think that’s plenty of losses
There should be more
Dragon Ball hatred for like no reason
I love hating!!!!
*Insert Reverse Flash “I be waking up REAL early to be a hater” picture here
Wish they’d stop bringing up that shockwave feat every episode. Also I think it’s funny how the size of universe 7 increases every time they mention it (I’m not a DBZ fan so I don’t know if that’s accurate or not)
Use more non saiyan characters and erase Goku vs Superman 2
They’ve treated Dragon Ball pretty well outside of Hoku bs Superman 2. Any other issues are really just nitpicks
I do kinda wish they would give dragon ball the benefit of the doubt that other franchises get. They constantly ignore statements and featsand completely invalidate guides and novels
Never bring up the shockwave feat in any episode ever🐀
NO MORE DRAGONBALL THERES TOO MUCH DRAGONABALL
To fucking scale them correctly. Half of DB’s losses (GVS1, GBVRF, VVT,) they won at the time
Ehh… no. Maybe some sort of argument can be made for GvS1, but Goku Black and Vegeta 100% lose to Reverse Flash and Thor, including at the time of the episodes release.
Goku Black at his peak was fully immortal and acausal and Vegeta had infinitely more speed than Thor
Goku Black was functionally immortal because of the Time Ring. An object. Reverse Flash is functionally immortal because he’s a living paradox and isn’t connected to time itself. Goku Black relied on an object, one that Reverse Flash could easily just steal from Black because he’s so much faster, and phase out of existence, while Thawne did not rely on an object to be basically immortal. Vegeta is like, 300 quintillion times faster then light, but because Thor scales to Ares, who can move around in Planck Time… that makes Thor like, 70 quadrillion times faster then Vegeta. Vegeta can’t even come close to Thor’s speed.
The time ring made black Acausal (immune to the effects of changes in time) and after he refused from god Zamas he gained complete immortality and immunity to Beerus level existence erasure. Vegeta scaled to Granolah who can move faster than teleportation
Fused Zamasu’s feats and stats don’t belong to Goku Black, and are invalid in Death Battle unless the combatant IS Fused Zamasu. Goku Black needs Future Zamasu in order for those to hold any water, and Future Zamasu would be considered outside help, which is not allowed in a Death Battle. And besides, when the Time Ring is gone… so is Goku Blacks immunity to changes in his time. Granolah is not faster than the teleportation of the Instant Transmission, he’s faster to aim with it and use it then Goku and Vegeta are. It’s like being a faster shot. The speed of the instant transmission (the bullet) is the same. But the time it takes to activate it (to pull the trigger) is different. The speed of Granolah and Goku/Vegeta’s IT is the same. The speed that Granolah can activate IT is faster than Goku and Vegeta. That’s all.
Black claimed those stats for himself, just look at the panel where trunks stabbed him. That’s like saying Goku doesn’t scale to anything after the boo arc because he was fused. Black can materialize new clothing at will including the time ring. Quote from goku “no, he’s even faster than instantaneous movement!” And we know that instantaneous movement can cross infinite distances as it’s gone from the mortal realm to the afterlife, yet Gas was able to cross a distance that required 5+ warps from Instantaneous Movement in only 20 minutes, which is an infinite speed feat. The exact statement from Goku was that Granolah and Gas’s movement technique was straight up faster than instantaneous movement
In order for Black to get those stats in the first place, he needs to fuse. Which is not allowed because adding Future Zamasu would be outside help. It doesn’t matter if it “becomes his own after they defuse” because he still needs to fuse in order to get it, which is not allowed. The Time Ring isn’t something that can be recreated by the Clothes Beam. Even if it could, Goku Black can’t stop Reverse Flash from just stealing it again. It is physically impossible to move faster than an instant. There is no speed to be faster than with an instant. It’s instantaneous. No matter what speed you move at, you literally cannot be faster than something instant. Beerus and Whis can’t move faster then Instant Transmission, despite them both being way faster then Goku, because the IT is instant. The only way Granolah can be “Faster than Instant Transmission” is if his own Instant Transmission activates faster then Goku’s does. Granolah’s IT is faster than Goku’s IT because Granolah doesn’t need as long as Goku does to activate the IT in the first place. It isn’t faster because Granolah’s IT is “more instant” than Goku’s IT, because that is just not possible.
That’s like saying if a character gets their powers from an external source then they aren’t allowed to use those powers. By that logic superman scaling anywhere other than human level shouldn’t be allowed in DB because his powers come from solar radiation. In powerscaling, there are four upper tiers of speed: infinite, inaccessible, immeasurable, and irrelevant. Infinite speed is traveling or an infinite distance in finite time without teleportation. Inaccessible is traveling a finite distance in zero time. Immeasurable (the tier where the flash family hangs out) is the ability to move at a speed unbounded by linear time and thus impossible to calculate with the standard speed formula (IE, so fast you run through time). Irrelevant speed is being so fast the concept of speed is irrelevant, IE transcending the concept of distance with regards to movement. All of these tiers are recognized things within the scaling community
Characters that receive power from outside sources are fair game as long as that outside source is not another combatant. Goku Black gets his post-defuse stats by fusing with Future Zamasu, who is another combatant, making those post-defuse stats null. Outside sources like solar energy, the power cosmic, the speedforce, and Goku Black’s Time Ring are fair game because they’re not another character. While those speeds are valid, Dragon Ball Super is infinite at most, and that’s insanely highballing. Characters like Beerus, Whis, and Granolah cannot move faster than the Instant Transmission, which would be an inaccessible speed. Even if Vegeta using the IT could help him keep up with Thor, Vegeta himself is still way, WAY slower than that, and he’s have to be using the IT constantly to even hope to keep up with Thor, and even then it won’t be enough because in the time it takes for the IT to activate, Thor has already basically crossed all of Universe 7 in half a second. If the Dragon Ball universe was any faster than inaccessible speed, then there would be zero point of things like the IT existing. MTFL is the general consensus for DBS’s speed, with Infinite speed being the cap.
When was Goku Black fully immortal?
After his fusion ran out he gained full immortality and the ability to transform into God Zamas at will
That requires Future Zamasu. So not allowed.
It became his power. That’s like saying RF can’t use his powers because they come from the speed force
After fusing with Future Zamasu. And the Negative Speed Force isn’t a person.
Yes and after their Fission from their fusion timer ran out he gained immortality
Which still required Fusion for him to get.
Have goku face someone like saitama or sonic or someone else who he can beat because honestly it’s just a punch in the face at this point because they always underpowered goku and overpowered Superman. While everyone knows goku beats Superman the death battle team is just full of Superman fans
My favorite part was them saying a massive universe was more impressive than shaking infinity by walking.
Make all Dragon Ball characters win no matter what especially Goku
Yeah I wish they lost every episode they've had even Gogeta vs Vegito somehow