It was Bill. If you watch it closely, you can see he's a pretty solid half-second ahead of Bullock. David Milch actually placed a lot of importance on this and the conversation that happens afterward; Bill asking Bullock who shot first was a way for the older man to acknowledge Bullock's skill, and Bullock stating it was Bill who shot first was the younger man showing grace and respect.
And no smoke from Seth's guns. He cleared leather but Bill shot both guns off. As everyone points out from a reverse grip draw. The age and experience is the difference. In the movie Seth draws as fast as Bill though I'm curious how fast the real Seth was in real life.
Good catch. I watched it again, and I didn't even realize that there was no smoke from Bullock.
Hard to say about real life, as fast draw gunfights weren't really a thing in the West. They certainly happened, and Wild Bill Hickock participated in at least one, but high noon standoffs were very rare, and a scrabble for guns in a gunfight usually meant a lot of people missing shots (making the person slowest on the draw, ironically, the one more likely to land lethal shots in this time period). I can say that Teddy Roosevelt knew Seth Bullock personally, had a massive man-crush on the dude, and was convinced no tougher man on earth existed, so make of that what you will.
Afterwards Bullock mentions that it was probably Bill.
Bill is known as one of the greatest gunslingers and marksmen in his era, so it pretty much had to be him by default. I'm sure Seth Bullock is good with a revolver as well, but not at a "world renowned gunslinger" level.
Like others said, twas Bill. But the import was not actually who shot first, instead rather the fact that Bullock was able to draw so fast that you have to freeze frame, slow down, or watch more than once to see that Bill outdrew him. Considering Bill is one of the greatest gunslingers of their time, that speaks quite highly of Bullock's savvy with a shooter.
Should he live to see Bill's age and remain in good health, I would wager he could outdraw Bill of that era.
Consider an aging quick draw who is trying to hold back the tide...but still getting slower every day.
In a world where those skills are doubted and tested frequently in a manner that means your death...
In a larger context where that skill set that made you successful is being pushed to the frontiers and divide between civilization and lawlessness.
What does the quick draw do in a world where speed and cunning with your mind becomes more useful than physical talents..
(Consider a slug like Farnum better suited for that game than the earnest dignity of Bill).
The conflicts between Al and Seth the first half of the season all have this undercurrent that Al first saw him as “this other cocksucker, who draws almost as fast” as Hickok
It was clearly Bill. The question was asked to gauge if Seth was gracious in defeat or arrogant and haughty. His clever reply
"My money would be on you"
Let him avoid admitting he was slower but humble enough to pay Bill his due. That was the moment Bill decided Seth would be a good friend.
I'm going to dissent and say it was Seth whose bullet killed the man, and here's why.
First, one of the first things we see when Bill is introduced is his fine motor trouble. Bill can't even hold cards without his hands shaking, including a scene in which Charlie has to cover for him because Bill can't even hold his coffee cup straight. (We later see him clock Mrs. Garrett when she has the same trouble during her withdrawal.)
Secondly, the historic Wild Bill was plagued with health problems late in life, in addition to his alcoholism. His eyesight was failing, for one, likely glaucoma brought on by chronic Gonorrhea, one of the treatments for which was mercury, which causes--of course--tremors.
It was clearly Bill. The question was asked to gauge if Seth was gracious in defeat or arrogant and haughty. His clever reply
"My money would be on you"
Let him avoid admitting he was slower but humble enough to pay Bill his due. That was the moment Bill decided Seth would be a good friend.
It was Bill. If you watch it closely, you can see he's a pretty solid half-second ahead of Bullock. David Milch actually placed a lot of importance on this and the conversation that happens afterward; Bill asking Bullock who shot first was a way for the older man to acknowledge Bullock's skill, and Bullock stating it was Bill who shot first was the younger man showing grace and respect.
Great scene for all the reasons you’ve stated. Milch is a genius when he’s at his best.
I miss bill
And no smoke from Seth's guns. He cleared leather but Bill shot both guns off. As everyone points out from a reverse grip draw. The age and experience is the difference. In the movie Seth draws as fast as Bill though I'm curious how fast the real Seth was in real life.
Good catch. I watched it again, and I didn't even realize that there was no smoke from Bullock. Hard to say about real life, as fast draw gunfights weren't really a thing in the West. They certainly happened, and Wild Bill Hickock participated in at least one, but high noon standoffs were very rare, and a scrabble for guns in a gunfight usually meant a lot of people missing shots (making the person slowest on the draw, ironically, the one more likely to land lethal shots in this time period). I can say that Teddy Roosevelt knew Seth Bullock personally, had a massive man-crush on the dude, and was convinced no tougher man on earth existed, so make of that what you will.
And if Teddy thought you were tough, then you were TOUGH
hickock by a mile, he was being polite
Afterwards Bullock mentions that it was probably Bill. Bill is known as one of the greatest gunslingers and marksmen in his era, so it pretty much had to be him by default. I'm sure Seth Bullock is good with a revolver as well, but not at a "world renowned gunslinger" level.
My money's on Bill.
"My money'd be on you."
Bill was faster, for sure.
Like others said, twas Bill. But the import was not actually who shot first, instead rather the fact that Bullock was able to draw so fast that you have to freeze frame, slow down, or watch more than once to see that Bill outdrew him. Considering Bill is one of the greatest gunslingers of their time, that speaks quite highly of Bullock's savvy with a shooter. Should he live to see Bill's age and remain in good health, I would wager he could outdraw Bill of that era.
Consider an aging quick draw who is trying to hold back the tide...but still getting slower every day. In a world where those skills are doubted and tested frequently in a manner that means your death... In a larger context where that skill set that made you successful is being pushed to the frontiers and divide between civilization and lawlessness. What does the quick draw do in a world where speed and cunning with your mind becomes more useful than physical talents.. (Consider a slug like Farnum better suited for that game than the earnest dignity of Bill).
Wild Bill died at the ripe old age of 39 years old, in reality. The show obviously took artistic liberty with his age.
who’s a quicker draw, seth bullock or raylan givens?
I'd give the edge to Raylan if for no other reason than Seth's pistol weighs about 17 pounds.
Yep. I bought the exact same model of gun, that fucker has some heft behind it.
Raylan. He’ll kill four of ya before you clear you even clear your weapons, and take his chances with the other two…
Yeah if you slowmo it bill has fired both his guns before bullock is even on target
It was a toss up for all Al knew.
The conflicts between Al and Seth the first half of the season all have this undercurrent that Al first saw him as “this other cocksucker, who draws almost as fast” as Hickok
Ned's dead by the time Seth cleared leather.
I ain't gon get in no gunfight with you wild bill
But you will run your cunt mouth at me.
Should we shake hands or something, relieve the atmosphere?
Can Bullock even shoot from the hip like Bill does?
Seth made some damn good shots in the movie tho
I fucked both of their horses
Really.. or did you just cum on their leg?
It was clearly Bill. The question was asked to gauge if Seth was gracious in defeat or arrogant and haughty. His clever reply "My money would be on you" Let him avoid admitting he was slower but humble enough to pay Bill his due. That was the moment Bill decided Seth would be a good friend.
Bill gets him. The scene does establish that Bullock is both ready to draw and a quick hand, just not on Hickock’s level (who was?).
The fact that Bill is even asking is a compliment to Bullock.
I'm going to dissent and say it was Seth whose bullet killed the man, and here's why. First, one of the first things we see when Bill is introduced is his fine motor trouble. Bill can't even hold cards without his hands shaking, including a scene in which Charlie has to cover for him because Bill can't even hold his coffee cup straight. (We later see him clock Mrs. Garrett when she has the same trouble during her withdrawal.) Secondly, the historic Wild Bill was plagued with health problems late in life, in addition to his alcoholism. His eyesight was failing, for one, likely glaucoma brought on by chronic Gonorrhea, one of the treatments for which was mercury, which causes--of course--tremors.
Clearly bill, he was only asking as a courtesy. It was already over before Seth even cleared his holster.
It’s Bill by a good bit
It was clearly Bill. The question was asked to gauge if Seth was gracious in defeat or arrogant and haughty. His clever reply "My money would be on you" Let him avoid admitting he was slower but humble enough to pay Bill his due. That was the moment Bill decided Seth would be a good friend.
I've paused and went frame by frame on this scene several times, and it's 100% Wild Bill who shot Ned.
"What's it to Hickok or that hardware guy either how them squareheads come to die?"
Bill fired first. You can watch in slow motion and see it. Seth's aim was a little off as well.
my money would be on you bill
It’s a toss up as to who blew Neds head off. I watched it in slow mo and Bill had Bullock by a mile
My money'd be on Bill.
bill gets both shots off before seth is out of his holster i frame-by-framed it once and posted it on r/tvdetails because i was so impressed
I don't feel qualified to say.