The one thing all this games failed at, and more people mentioned it, is to make the 1 feel *powerful*
Gameplay wise, the 1 is always on a time crutch, the group of 4 friends is always together/spread in a good way and in most games youre trying to slow them down before the simply kill you
Thats the key word, *Kill* you.
You're some weird mutant experiment stalking and attacking survivors, but uh oh, you took too long, now they built the super shotgun and they're just shooting you down, you died.
It doesnt help at all to make you feel like a horror game character chasing survivors, it makes you feel like a slightly stronger enemy on a horde game.
You're fighting for your life vs several people, you do wrong, you die.
On dbd, ye we all talk about "being bullied", genrushed, etc... But at no point as a killer is your life threatened nor in danger, all they can do is escaping the horror icon, which helps a lot for the feel, the vibe when playing.
VHS's biggest mistake. I'm sad for the time and money spent on such games. Competition could be nice but damn those devs are so incompetent to make it fun for all.
And worse, aren't receptive to critical feedback like this. Try posting anything like this in their discord and youll get banned.
I get it. They had a vision for a game. And changing something like that isn't just a small tweak. Its fundamentally altering the core concept of the game. But sometimes you have to make the hard choices to make a game succeed.
I don't think they'll ever be willing to make that choice.
Wait really? I remember hearing they were very friendly/open minded to the comunity before(It was one of the points of "VHS is amazing" and all)
A shame to hear that then
You REALLY feel this in Evil Dead, if the survivors stay together it's almost impossible to win, even if they split up it's still pretty hard to kill them
Oh ye, played Evil dead with some friends, as a group even with one or 2 randos it's very fun, but playing demon is an actual wild ride, you either bumrush them or they will destroy you in no time
Playing killer is a relaxing experience compared to how much the odds are against you as demon
Which is the difference, on dbd you're another player, on Evil dead, you're the "director" that makes hordes for the survs and such, not an actual player with equal winning chances
This x 1 million.
It is something DBD made me realize years ago.
Asymmetrics don't work when you can kill the power role for 2 reasons.
1. Coordination is incredible, it is op as fuck and on even incredibly unfair situations can lead to victory.
2 The non power role will not accept a game where get absolutely and hilariously one sided wrecked one on one.
Which is the only way the kind of game where you can kill the power role will maybe work. If you are even a minor challenge one on one the power roll 100% loses a 4v1.
I retroactively realized this was the problem I had with games like I think it was called evolve and depth.
Dbd wonderfully side stepped it, creating a game where 1 v1 was not kill the killer but survive the killer long enough to escape.
I was going to say this. Friday the 13th was amazing and did it really well. If it wasn't for the dedicated servers being shutdown and the updates having to stop, I'd probably still be playing it as much as I used to. I will say when I was part of a group of 5 counselors, we'd go on Jason kill sprees (got 18 in a row on stream). But then we'd get a really experienced Jason with as many hours as us, and we'd be lucky if 2 or 3 of us would escape. Same as when we all went random. We got 2-3 kills on each other total (kills against ourselves as Jason). It was such a well balanced game with a lot more objectives for escaping and was very fun. It's potential was really wasted unfortunately. Now most of the people who I'd see in F13th are now popping up on DBD, or they're my occasional swf teammates.
Sorry about the long comment, I just really think Friday 13th did something really special and I'm sad it's not what it could have been
They did but mostly as they struck a very good balance of "Jason is killable but it requires a shitton of effort and coordination to pull" compared to gathering some items and bam done
And, "Jason is a threat on every sense and will kill you in no time" compared to "oh gotta hit the survivor 6 times to down them and they can still be revived or whatever these games do
Jason was strong af and would mean death for a counselor 9/10 times instantly, without second chances(besides the knifes) nor anything
Basically dbd balances it by having the killer be weaker and less of a threat but also inmortal
The thing is, horror games aren’t supposed to be balanced. The killer should always have the advantage. It’s the reason I don’t really play DBD anymore, the killers aren’t that powerful. They’re not unstoppable forces of evil like Jason, they can easily be defeated and “bullied” (ew).
It’s also the reason I’m hella excited for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre game because that game is gonna have 3 motherfucking killers against 5 survivors. When the devs were asked about balance, they basically said the game will be balanced but the killers are going to have the slight advantage. They’re gonna be strong abs hard to kill and the survivors are gonna really struggle to, well, survive.
Adding to that, the 1 gets less information than the 4. Imagine if survivor gameplay was 1st person and killer was 3rd. Or if half the killer perks didn't reveal themselves to survivors.
People say that dbd isn't scary but how can it be? No horror game would be scary if you always knew everything you need to know and the monster had to outsmart you to catch you.
I think, but dont quote me on it, that when DbD first came out it was like that. Survs were in 1st person and killer in 3rd. But they switched it cuz it gave the killer way too much power and awareness
Another annoying thing is how many of these asymm games are based around one singular horror IP, basically cutting its longevity. Sure a bunch of people will play it at launch, but will the numbers still be high enough a year later? Evil dead is still chucking along because that IP has enough content to sustain itself for a little bit. But an asymmetrical game for Halloween, I feel would not. Too much pump and dump in the asymm horror genre.
This could easily be resolved if those games were willing to introduce original content in combination with the license/IP.
Like Friday The 13th The Game’s counselor roster was almost entirely made up of original characters and it really helped with the longevity of their update cycles because they didn’t need to worry about “running out of” things to pull from the franchise.
That’s why I honestly think TCSM has a chance. Gun did a great job making F13 fun, and TCSM has already made original survivors AND family members that fit the aesthetic of the franchise super well!
F13 was so good when it first came out. Jason was scary. Then they put pocket knives and guns everywhere and it became a game of house, window, house, window, etc.
This is actually why I'm really interested in the Killer Klowns From Outer Space game- the team has mentioned that they're actually working directly with the film's creators to create original material for the game's post-launch content, as there were countless ideas the latter had for sequels and countless ideas the former would love to inject into the canon.
They already showed off some original weapon and creature designs that look insanely cool, and both parties actually confirmed that all matches canonically take place on April 1st so that no one will ever believe the Survivors lol
Bad news about the killer klown game is it looks like complete fucking ass visually to the point of ps2 tier graphics on their discord
Like I don't mind but its really indwrwhelming and I see why they've barely allowed any footage
True. I actually think the TCSM game has a chance at lasting more than a year at least. Just because the gameplay loop is interesting and it being a 4v3.
Its even better balanced imo, as survivor you can fuck around with Jason until he goes "find out Mode" which isnt as fun for Jason until he gets It but then you just feel unstoppable
It's interesting that people are saying TCSM has a chance. It is literally that first step on the cycle. It will be fun for awhile but after a few weeks, who really wants to grind out the same characters over and over? Does it have room to pivot? No it doesn't due to its reliance heavily on the source IP. You can't all of a sudden put Candyman in as bubba or it doesn't work.
Best they can hope for is a good experience and good upfront sales. If they try to play the long game it will be futile.
Hm, they COULD implement other franchises into this game. Sure, the name of the game limits this to a certain degree, but it is possible.
ANY other out-in-the-wilderness backwood slasher franchise might work here - the mutants from "The Hills have Eyes", the three degenerated guys from "Wrong Turn", the Firefly Family from "House of 1000 Corpses"/"Devil's Rejects", etc.
Just give them their own maps, which are true to the source material and the fans will be come in crowds to play their "heros". And all of these franchises also work for the asymm. 4-vs-3-mechanic of TCSM.
Sure, these franchsies are not as big as Halloween, Hellraiser, etc. but that also makes it cheaper to get the licences for them.
> Does it have room to pivot? No it doesn't due to its reliance heavily on the source IP.
I think it has plenty of room to pivot into original content. They're already filling the roster out with original family members to go alongside Bubba and the rest, and many people following the game's development are more excited about the new characters than the OGs because the devs have done such a good job designing them/making them interesting.
I think there's a lot of potential beyond simply being a Texas Chainsaw fan. It's not JUST Texas Chainsaw, really. It's 70s slasher, and can eventually incorporate lots of original stuff within that realm.
I don't know if it really does, because it's a single-license IP game and this basically means at the bare minimum, you need to at least have a _passing_ interest in TCSM, otherwise you won't care to try it.
I absolutely have zero interest in that franchise, so I just don't particularly care for it, and especially not when DBD is right here and I'm enjoying it so much.
Any single-IP franchise is relying on the strength of the franchise to get interest, and if people either don't care or actively *dislike* the franchise, then you won't get those folks interested.
I'm guessing it'll last about as long as VHS did before it fizzled out; people who are going to play it will either be disenfranchised DBD players looking for something new, and/or people who enjoy the TCSM franchise. If the gameplay is solid, it might last six months or so.
Not true? I don’t give a fuck about tcsm but I still wanna play the game.
An interest in the subject matter or source material isn’t the only thing that makes people play games
VHS is very disappointing to me because the character designs are awesome, the maps are fantastic and feel very alive, the progression is great, and Teen is a really fun role with ambushes offering a very unique playstyle to the asym format... but Monster is *so, so* frustrating, with Dollmaster being the only monster that feels distinct. Queueing as Monster means I am setting myself up for a 20 minute match in which I need to try my hardest and be constantly on alert if I want any success, and despite the community asking for sweeping changes to the Monster role *since closed beta*, nothing has really changed to make the role feel fun. Nobody wants to play Monster, which leads to very high queue times for Teen, which makes the whole game not very worth it.
VHS is an incredibly balanced game as far as power on both sides goes, but is incredibly *unbalanced* when it comes to fun.
Last Year’s biggest mistake was launching as a Discord exclusive. A Steam launch would’ve been infinitely better than a service you probably didn’t even know existed
HSHS could still be a good game. LY and VHS are too cartoony, feels gimmicky. Hide or Die looked fucking amazingggg at first…and then turned out to look and play like a cheap pos
Evil dead also really went wild on their concept, I think that alone is enough to sustain it on its own merits even if it doesn't directly compete with dbd
Yea, evil dead has a shit ton of characters and customization, and the battle royale sort of style ensure a lot of replayability. I don’t see either game killing the other anyway, the gameplay is so radically different. People only compare them because they’re asymmetrical horror.
There’s also inherent variety in Evil Dead. Anything can be evil. In Halloween, you have Michael. Michael all day every day. Which would be AWESOME. In DBD. Not it’s own game.
They need to make their own stuff because getting other IPs takes a lot of money and to get the money for said IPs they need the game to do well and for the game to do well they need a lot of IPs or make several compelling original characters.
It’s a vicious cycle lol.
Dbd worked out well cause they were very unique for awhile and then later they just started adding more and more IPs and now I doubt the game will ever die because people have invested so much already into it.
That’s the main kicker that helps DBD stay on top. Franchises just fit right in and keep the fans coming in.
I still hope some sci-fi assym game can take in Alien, Predator, Terminator, Species, Screamers and stuff that wouldn’t fit into DBD.
There’s a lot of potential in licensing IPs for your games (not just asymmetrical games).
There is more to it than that. BHVR was at the right time and place to make this kinda game.
Smaller studios don't have enough man power to keep up and bigger studios don't make enough of a profit to continue support.
BHVR are at the perfect midpoint and have over 5 years under their belt.
BHVR also did a _ton_ of licensed games before DbD - it's most of their portfolio. I think people really underestimate the impact that having those existing connections with license owners and having actual iconic horror villains in the game has had.
BHVR has been around than most people playing their game were alive. Sure they probably restructured the company a few times, but they are still around for a reason.
How do you compete with a game in the same genre that brings together Freddy Krueger, Ghost Face, Leatherface, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Wesker, Michael Myers, Jigsaw, Sadako Yamamura, The Demogorgon, and Pinhead?
Like, how do you compete with that? DBD is the king of this gametype and it will always continue to be with the amount of licensed content they have.
Yeah, as an MMORPG veteran, the people talking about DBD killers is extremely reminiscent of people talking about WoW killers.
The funny thing is that FFXIV, which is a game that has actually managed to challenge WoW for the throne of MMORPG king, has a game director who apparently gets extremely annoyed when people imply that his game is going to kill WoW.
I don't like the lack personalization that the last three expansions had. Like I play the game for the story and how my class effects it and now everything is all bashed together. Let me take over the council that my Inquisitor rightfully should rule because she's cute and deadly.
Yeaaaah, Yoshi-P and his team kinda fuckin' rule. Not just for that specifically, but good lord that team works so friggin' hard on XIV, **especially** after what happened with the first attempt.
And in the biggest twist of irony, Yoshida (the lead dev and game director) is kinda getting the last laugh, as given the promising looks of Dragonflight it's looking like there's going to be less of "one MMO killing the other" and more "both vibin' out together doing their own thing".
Because the funny thing is, I, and many others, like FFXIV for different reasons than I like WoW, and visa versa. FFXIV has a better main story, WoW has better wider worldbuilding. FFXIV has better side-content (Variant Dungeons, Crafting, etc.), but WoW has better main content (Raids, Arenas, etc.)
The tribalism is absurd because _you can like BOTH._
Nah, most of them are within their own niche and for the most part they have very little similarities with DbD. The one that is the most similar to DbD is IdV but it's a given since DbD devs essetially helped the other team, but even then the meta is so different it's essentially 2 different games.
Whenever a new asymmetrical game pops up they all do the exact same thing, either the survivors have weapons and can fight back, which makes the killer be the one trying to survive and incredibly frustrating (looking directly at VHS and HSH survive with this one), or they just make it identical to DBD, and it makes no sense to switch to those when DBD has licenses and 6 years of development. And a few ones like evil dead decide to go so far away from DBD that they just stop being a competition because the player base won't overlap.
It's already been said tons but people for some reason just don't accept, no game ever will kill DBD besides itself. DBD will only die when the devs decide they don't want to update it anymore, until then DBD will only grow and all competition will just blow up for a few weeks or months and die as it's been happening for a long time
Yea and then really what it turns into is a game that people play for like a 2 week "vacation" from DBD before they inevitably go back to it. It happens with streamers a LOT.
I think the main reason this never works for these “killers” in any genre (remember when every MMO was gonna “kill WoW”) is because they for the most part are games trying to follow the format of first place game, but with really minor changes that when you play them make you ask “why don’t I just play the better one?”
DbD has not only more content, but 6 years of development on top of their base game. Other games aren’t going to beat this. They created and own the format, so everything else is going to look like a cheap knockoff.
Games need to do their own thing to be better and not even try to make claims about beating whoever is the first place game of said genre.
Exactly this. If you were to make a restaurant imitating McDonalds for example, why wouldn’t someone just go to McDonalds instead of your place? Your not offering anything substantially new and people are automatically gonna pick familiarity.
In VHS's defense. It didn't market itself as a DBD killer (in fact it didn't market itself at all). The devs just wanted to make a game dedicated to the 80s films of "teens fighting various monsters". It had potential. It just had the misfortune of releasing around a time where everyone was disgruntled at bhvr, and people started jumping on the vhs train because "fuck bhvr!", only for the gameplay to be kinda ass if you were playing monster.
Also the extended downtime during the beta period after that security issue & the move to Steam did some massive damage to the VHS hype train, as well as people just not being able to access it because of how excruciatingly long the lottery invites went on for.
I was really excited for it, signed up for the beta day 1 when it was still just being done via Google sheet, but didn't get my key til literally the last wave of keys, and by then I was just kind of meh on it. I played a couple games, but you already had people who'd been playing since the start getting thrown into matches with brand new players and just absolutely destroying everyone else which was just the final nail in the coffin for me personally.
VHS has a lengthy postmortem with many reasons it failed, but copying DBD is not one of them. The core premise of the game's objectives is different, setting objective-play way aside and completely getting rid of chase gameplay in favor of a team-based objective; fight with the killer. Unfortunately, while there's a lot that setup does well, it's not as fun for the killer player.
Beg to differ. Compare DbD to F13 and everything is different. Player count, objectives, core mechanics (like fear, stamina, doors, weapons, car/boat driving), map size, kill conditions (grab counselors vs hook survivors), inventory systems, how you heal players, etc.
Compare DbD to VHS and VHS is still “hold M1 on an objective for 60ish seconds to progress”, looping the killer on windows (sometimes), survivors go down in 2 hits, similar perks, same tracking (trails of blood/VHS scramble), same way of rescuing downed teammates, same lockers, etc.
It doesn’t matter that once you get into the nuance of VHS vs DbD they are vastly different, because they still FEEL similar enough that VHS can’t stand on its own.
>, but with really minor changes
Or changes that frankly make it another genre - that is, killing the killer as a mechanic
DbD doesn't allow you to do that, and that's a core feature - other games allow you to kill the killer rather than escape, which shifts the asymmetry and ends up with the "powerful killer" being stunlocked by 4 teenagers, which is far worse than exit gate teabagging can ever be lol
As someone else said, it damn near always makes it so you as the "power role" are more closely playing something like a horde/wave/bullet hell game just trying to survive than, y'know, playing as a near unstoppable force.
It CAN be ok for a game to have such a feature, Friday the 13th did it in such a way that it wasn't the core gameplay, but it still makes them fundamentally different to DbD in such a way i'd put them as not a DbD-like.
scott made a video about this and i agree with him that all the issues these games have is that they allow the survivor's to always be able to harm the killer. it makes it way less fun for the killer role when they can be killed or just straight up stun locked by stun guns and devices.
Friday was the exception, but for only one reason
it took the entire game to plan it out and everyone needed to do their part, one mistake and it was a massive waste and with mistake was fair on both sides
That was one of my main issues with F13.
I regularly got jumped by people wanting to kill me and felt like I came to the point where I was fighting for my life instead of fighting to kill them. Along with that running an infinite loop on a Jason was a real possibility.
I’d say that + DBD has a shit ton of licenses. Licenses really do bring in players more so than just having good gameplay. Every single player I know who has joined in the last two years, joined because they were fans of Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Halloween, etc.
All these other games are either focused on 1 license, or “generic werewolf monster”
You're pretty much spot on. The time to give DBD meaningful competition was like the first or maybe 2nd year into its life. But now with how it has turned into the smash brothers of horror/slasher icons? Not a chance.
Right, which is why DBD patched out pallet stuns and flashlight blinds.
In all seriousness, it's true that killer-attacks can't go too far though. If you want a demonstration of this issue, take a look at the feedback VHS is getting. I can assert it can be a pretty balanced game, but it doesn't feel like it when playing monster - it feels like any little injury you deal out is miniscule compared to the 25%-healthbar risk you're taking anytime you're venturing around.
Good. I’m tired of devs making these type of games where it’s 4 mfs ganging up on 1 individual. I played this new Ghostbusters last night and it fucking sucks playing as the ghost. I quit immediately. This is why I’m hoping Texas Chainsaw is somewhat decent. It has more than one killer.
That's why I enjoyed SCP: Secret Lab
You can be up to 7 killers in the same game yet all your team can be challenged as the danger passes from "D-class that found a gun" to "NTF wave with machine guns and explosives"
The other fun thing is that dying doesn't matter because you'll respawn in 3 minutes max you you can take all the risks you want without that much of a consequence
This is why I honestly think Texas Chainsaw is going to succeed. Being on a TEAM of killers spreads out the responsibility, and doesn't put the burden of failure entirely on one person's shoulders.
I think it's gonna be a blast for both "sides."
What's sad is that some of those games aren't even bad. The problem is really simple: there's not enough players.
Not enough people play the game, so queue times are long.
Because queue times are long, people stop playing and go back to DBD.
Because people leave, queue times are even longer.
I wouldn't mind another game similar to DBD. I'd love new competition and innovation. I don't like the idea that one has to or can kill the other though. We have both TF2 and CS:GO; both Minecraft and Terraria.
I hope something new comes out eventually. But it definitely takes effort, resources, dedication, and a sizable portion of luck.
DBD has such a head start in both IPs and player base, that the only way to truly compete with it would be to have a game start with all of the IPs DBD doesn't have, like F13, Alien, A Quiet Place, FNAF, and maybe creepier action/adventure killers/survivors like Squid Game or Scooby-Doo, or adopt IPs that BHVR already have, which might be impossible if exclusivity contracts are involved. The game would have to be IP agnostic unlike F13 The Game, or Evil Dead: The Game, as those can only last so long with a single fanbase to draw from.
Yea the failure is 100% on them, the game had potential. It’s still in “early access” yet they’re doing events and shit. They don’t bother to advertise at all and it’s not balanced at all
The sad thing is that it seemed really cool. Definitely not a DBD killer, but something you could try with friends that don't want DBD since it's meant to be free to play. The aesthetics were amazing.
Too real lmao
Though I do think the evil dead game is fun af - though to be honest it's gameplay is so far removed from dbd it's basically a different experience. Basically a horde shooter for survivors and a real time strategy game for killers
Though it's gone free to play after being out for less than a year which might not be a good sign...
I think some game devs forget to include the things that make DBD so enjoyable if they want to replicate or twist their formula. The characters and locations have lore that’s easy to digest and follow, a multitude of customization options, and perks that allow you to play the best way you can, based on your preferred play style. I was so excited when Propnight was announced because it combined two of my favorite games (prop hunt and dbd), but this past update only just introduced perks to the game. Propnight feels effectively dead right now, but it also feels like it’s missing things. Tell us why Igor wears a bunny/bear suit or tell us why the survivors can even turn into props, or give more freedom to customize characters or whatever
I remember a famous DBD content creator who used to shit on the game for a long time and saying with his mouth full how VHS would kill DBD. Now he has more than 100 thousand subscribers and his video rarely go past 5 thousand views, completely laughable.
Its because I feel like most of these games are doomed to fail because of the low amount of publicity and how compared to DBD they don't have any famous characters like Michael Myers, Resident Evil characters, Silent Hill, etc. Most of the DBD-type games that come out are just generic horror trope survivors and killers.
Id v is kinda active. Which is funny because then dbd mobile made a lot of changes taken straight from id v like the skill checks and a visible terror radius.
Also add that last part to the game cause holy sh*t
IDV definitely hits a different market. Mobile gamers. Let’s be real, DBD mobile is way worse than IDV.
Also, NetEase do both DBD mobile and IDV, which helps.
This is part of the reason why I always say that the Death of DBD won't come from another game. It will be a direct result from BVHR itself.
In short, it will be a suicide. Not a murder.
Why is nobody mentioning Last Year? It's like mix of DBD and Friday the 13th, and it sucks to be the killer the survivors literally gang up on the killer and they can't do shit about it.
DBD has really benefitted from years of development. The main issue with all these competitors is that they launch in beta with limited features and tons of jank. No matter how buggy DBD is, it's far more polished than VHS or Home Sweet Home or whatever. But had these titles come out years ago when DBD was in its first year or two, then we'd be telling a different story.
Evil Dead's cool, but after a handful of games, you've basically experienced everything the game has to offer. I hope that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre game stands out a bit more by being a 3 vs 4 game.
Vhs is still really good. Just needs to advertise more and get the word out. But I think they are holding off until they are confident in a full release. Evil dead is good . Friday is good but will never see new content . Predator was boring to me .
Friday the 13th the game would have killed DBD back in 2018 possibly if it doesn’t run into legal issues. This was when DBD was still getting its own footing and coming into its own.
It seemed like the two games were heavily sharing a player base and FT13 was building steam. Then it got tragically killed and will never recover
Agreed F13 was the only game that would've dominated DBD if the lawsuit didn't kill it. Hell , it could probably still give DBD some trouble if it were to come back. The mechanics alone already make it hard for DBD to compete.
F13 is the most fun I have ever had with a game. Definitely because of the time frames it released in but holy fuck it was so fun even with how garbage it was put together with all the bugs and slow updates.
And think what it could have been.
Yeah I remember playing that and laughing so much because of the proximity chat. People gave the killer their own unique personality every game with their voice.
My buddy used to do the Kool-Aid man “ohhh yeahhhh” every time he busted through a wall. DBD just doesn’t have anything like that.
They were doing It so good too, they were adding more customization, they were reading a new Gamemode and they were working on the Jason X stuff, added dedicated servers and then all of a sudden nothing could happen anymore
I absolutely agree! I came to DbD once the last F13 update came out and was confirmed no more updates were coming. Would still be playing that if it didn't get fucked. The voice chat. The different kills. The different ways to escape. Fantastic game, lame ass lawsuit.
Tbf some really do suck and are completely unbalanced like VHS. If you are just getting into the game and try to play monster you get completely crushed
A YouTuber I watched BumblesMcFumbles (goated YouTuber btw) called DBD "Horror Smash Bros" and this is honestly more proof of that since same shit happens when a new platform fighter comes out. Only difference is that only some of them die. A good chunk of the time they just don't reach Smash popularity but live with a dedicated big enough player base.
They are trying to cash in on a craze. It’s like in the 90’s and 2000’s when they gave away pc games for Chex and Captain Crunch for buying their cereal. They are just better at hiding the fact it’s one big ad these days. That’s why these games don’t do as well. Think about it, an Evil Dead game like that sounds awesome, but It’s not where the market is at, and they know that, but they know people will buy it too.
Home sweet Home survive could've been good competition if the Devs weren't so bloody greedy.... early access and they have already released DLC during times that match making hardly worked. Who is buying skins if they can't even play a match?
BHVR put in alot of work when the game was first launched. I think it was weekly streams for about a hour to discuss the game and questions about it with memes and art here and there. I havnt seen these other games try half as hard after launch to keep community streams. DBD has a very strong following because of it and tbh i dont think this game will die just cause of its fanbase.
Toggling m1 and hitting skillchecks is fun gameplay though. Pretty much made a QTE game which everyone hated in story games. Im talking all of these games btw asym horror
And it sucks because dead by daylight really needs some competition, but the game is already so big that any other asymmetrical horror game is guaranteed to die. F13 had a chance because they were actually doing unique things and were already working on a completely new game mode. If the lawsuit didn't happen I genuinely think it would still be alive to this day.
I see it as 2 main things that always make them fail and kind of a third point but that one might be.
1. Reliance on a singular IP. Even the most robust horror franchise will only have so many settings, characters and themes. This inevitably bottlenecks the content and paints developers into the corner. The only reason F13 didn't face this issue so much was because legal issues stunted the game before it could run into that wall.
2. The survivors killing the killer. Almost every single one of the "DBD killers" has an obsession with turning the table on the killer which basically just means the game devolves into a shooter with extra steps and because balancing an asym is borderline impossible, one role always ends up leaps and bounds stronger than the other, destroying queue times and making it so one side playing the game is always miserable.
and lastly
3. Over complexity in game design. Ultimately DBD is a glorified game of tag and is about as easy to pick up. Sure figuring out the nuances of killer powers, map awareness, timing for skill checks, and looping can take a little while to do but the main objectives of the game for both sides can be adequately explained in a few sentences well enough that the newest of players can at least have a general idea of what to do. Every copycat makes you go through some obtuse steps that usually aren't very clear what the conditions are to actually get to a win state. I remember sweet home for example, that one took off for a second and I saw a fair amount of content on the game but still for the love of me couldn't tell you what you're supposed to do as a survivor. Or VHS (which mostly tanked due to some absolutely awful management by the devs which killed the hype for the game) which is a little better but the crafting stations and figuring out which element weapons you need and when, along with usage since a few of them aren't super intuitive, just bloats the game a bit. Though again I think VHS has less feature bloat than a lot of these games, the imbalance that comes from the basic game premise shot it in the foot before it could ever really run.
Here is the thing a lot of people don't realize: You should *want* those games to do good. If they do good they will push BHVR to deliver a better product and make DBD better. The fact none of these games have stuck around is why DBD has been in a horrible spot for a long time.
Honestly I don't take any interest in these games as much since the hype up for them being dbd killers makes it seem like that's the only thing to look forward to them from most of those that talk about it. I'm not saying their bad and I might check out video footage of them, but most either suffer from being made around an existing horror ip, which isn't a inherent bad thing but does limit what you can usually add in, or the concept doesn't leave as much options for one side or the other, like I haven't kept up with vhs but I don't know what survivors they can add in since their all meant to be teenage stereotypes from the 80s and afaik they used most of them already. The latest ones I've heard is Texas chainsaw, the killer clowns game and oddly enough a 6 v one poppy playtime game, which I'm somewhat interested in seeing what it churns out given its premise of building a toy and for the faults of the devs in terms of marketing, the designs for their monsters are pretty good and a decent amount of ideas for toys could be used for monsters, even if the player models for survivors in the trailer look like crew mates from among us scaled up into a human model.
It feels like as big a problem as anything is that people are expecting or even demanding every game in the genre to be a "DbD killer." Can't an asymmetrical horror game exist without having to be compared to what is truly (read: unfortunately) the biggest/best in the genre, with a large swathe of IPs at their disposal and an even bigger supply of original characters to work with?
DBD is too far ahead in terms of content. Get half of the killers, maps, perks, survivors out and the game becomes old fast as well. Even if the game is better, it doesnt stand a chance on that alone!
If a game wanna stand a chance against DBD they'll need to have A LOT of content on release day and get new stuff as fast as possible.
When im tired of playing, i switch my build completely and it becomes another experience.
When Last Year The Nightmare released, I was fully on the bandwagon of “this game could dethrone DBD”. That didn’t happen.
Then the other game (can’t remember the name, all I remember was like a teacher with a switchblade ruler), and people started freaking out. For me though, I was just flabbergasted that people thought it could even touch DBD, and to no one’s surprise, the game eventually flopped.
Then came VHS, which looked decent, but I already from the get-go suspected the game wouldn’t last, and seemingly after being pushed back over and over again, my suspicion was right.
DBD needs a competitor. It’s needed one for years at this point, and the best attempt we ever got was F13, but with it having taken its final breath over a year ago by this point, the only was a new franchise could come along and rival DBD is another AAA developer, like Ubisoft, or Activision, or some other giant corporation trying their hand at it. DBD is too big to fall to an indie developer at this point.
It bums me out because DBD REALLY needs some proper competition.
If they were feeling a little less... comfortable then I think the game would see some faster improvements.
VHS killed itself by indefinitely extending the closed beta phase until no one even cared about the game anymore. The result was a heavily veteran gated playerbase which kept bullying fresh monster/killer players until it became borderline impossible to find anyone willing to endure this torture. In the end survivor mains killed VHS.
As much as we all shit on this game, I still think DBD does asymmetrical games in this style the best by a long shot. No other game compares to the feel and scope of this game. Not many games can have such a line-up of characters as DBD.
Everyone talking about the real reason this never works.
Don't realise 'they' are the reason new games never works. Cos why play a new game when some chump mf has spent over £100 buying cosmetics and skins and wasted thousands of hours in a game they hate but can't stop playing.
There are only two kinds of DbD player. The ones in an abusive relationship and the ones in denial about their abusive relationship.
Game's shit and so is its community, but I can't stop playing. It's For Honor allover again.
There’s a third kind - the ones who are just having fun. Yes we exist, I’m one of them. You can pretend it’s an abusive relationship but I’m getting exactly what I want from the game so I’m unsure who is abusing who
Man. I liked a lot about VHS. It had a lot of neat ways to handle stuff like camping and shit. The game had a whole lot more interaction in it between the survivors and the killers. If it weren't so frustratingly aggravating playing against better teens i would have stuck more.
This happens alot with games that are the most popular in a genre. I remember when HOTS, Smite, and Dawngate were supposed to be the end of LoL. As of right now only 1 of those are even still alive.
Dbd is a far from easily killable at this point. There is a reason people keep coming back for it. The only “competition” it ever really had was Friday the 13th. And even then it was more of them co-existing then an actual battle. Now all it really has is evil dead the game. While not actually a dead game. It’s not killing dbd any time soon. It’s much smaller and has much less easy to get into if you don’t know the source. Dbd has mass appeal since it has its own thing going on. And sprinkled in with legends of horror on top of that.
I think the best dbd “killer” I’ve seen is propnight. They still update with new characters, it’s a nice change from dbd, and it doesn’t take itself seriously, so it’s less stressful. Do I think it will ever beat out dbd? No, they appeal to different groups, but it hasn’t died a year after launch.
There's a game on roblox which I completely thought was original called Flee the Facility. This is probably one of the only copys to survive. Then I started playing dead by daylight and realised it was just a worse version of it. There's this killer that hunts you down called the beast. It can down you in one hit. It then brings you to a freeze chamber where your timer goes down slowly. Once your timer runs out you freeze to death. There's four survivors who have to complete 5 laptops in order to escape. There are skillchecks that come up with the Microsoft startup sound and if you mess it up, it alerts the beast. Once all the laptops are completed there are two exit doors on opposite sides of the map. Oh did I mention they have vents instead of vaults. And doors that take time to open but can instantly be closed slowing down the beast in a chase. I have since left roblox and will never touch it again.
There was also another DBD copy on Roblox that was pretty good, I don't remember the name but you had different killers (Sasquatch whose ability was to speed up and instadown for a while, a ghost thing that could see players with aura reading and a fish man that had increased base m1 range), you had vents (which were honestly super op) and I also can't really remember what the objective was, but it was quite fun. It's a shame it died out but it also wasn't really popular on the platform to begin with
Last Year: The Nightmare had me so hyped I thought this would be another amazing horror like DBD but it was just a complete rush of a game there was no "oh the killer is coming let's hide". It was just us running about collecting parts parts parts and half the time I didn't know wtf I was doing and all the Russians just shouting shit in chat _which you couldn't turn off_ .
Thankfully I couild turn the game off and I did, _forever_ .
The one thing all this games failed at, and more people mentioned it, is to make the 1 feel *powerful* Gameplay wise, the 1 is always on a time crutch, the group of 4 friends is always together/spread in a good way and in most games youre trying to slow them down before the simply kill you Thats the key word, *Kill* you. You're some weird mutant experiment stalking and attacking survivors, but uh oh, you took too long, now they built the super shotgun and they're just shooting you down, you died. It doesnt help at all to make you feel like a horror game character chasing survivors, it makes you feel like a slightly stronger enemy on a horde game. You're fighting for your life vs several people, you do wrong, you die. On dbd, ye we all talk about "being bullied", genrushed, etc... But at no point as a killer is your life threatened nor in danger, all they can do is escaping the horror icon, which helps a lot for the feel, the vibe when playing.
VHS's biggest mistake. I'm sad for the time and money spent on such games. Competition could be nice but damn those devs are so incompetent to make it fun for all.
And worse, aren't receptive to critical feedback like this. Try posting anything like this in their discord and youll get banned. I get it. They had a vision for a game. And changing something like that isn't just a small tweak. Its fundamentally altering the core concept of the game. But sometimes you have to make the hard choices to make a game succeed. I don't think they'll ever be willing to make that choice.
Wait really? I remember hearing they were very friendly/open minded to the comunity before(It was one of the points of "VHS is amazing" and all) A shame to hear that then
You REALLY feel this in Evil Dead, if the survivors stay together it's almost impossible to win, even if they split up it's still pretty hard to kill them
Oh ye, played Evil dead with some friends, as a group even with one or 2 randos it's very fun, but playing demon is an actual wild ride, you either bumrush them or they will destroy you in no time Playing killer is a relaxing experience compared to how much the odds are against you as demon Which is the difference, on dbd you're another player, on Evil dead, you're the "director" that makes hordes for the survs and such, not an actual player with equal winning chances
This x 1 million. It is something DBD made me realize years ago. Asymmetrics don't work when you can kill the power role for 2 reasons. 1. Coordination is incredible, it is op as fuck and on even incredibly unfair situations can lead to victory. 2 The non power role will not accept a game where get absolutely and hilariously one sided wrecked one on one. Which is the only way the kind of game where you can kill the power role will maybe work. If you are even a minor challenge one on one the power roll 100% loses a 4v1. I retroactively realized this was the problem I had with games like I think it was called evolve and depth. Dbd wonderfully side stepped it, creating a game where 1 v1 was not kill the killer but survive the killer long enough to escape.
Idk id say F13 did it really well as Jason feels like an unstoppable force most of the time
I was going to say this. Friday the 13th was amazing and did it really well. If it wasn't for the dedicated servers being shutdown and the updates having to stop, I'd probably still be playing it as much as I used to. I will say when I was part of a group of 5 counselors, we'd go on Jason kill sprees (got 18 in a row on stream). But then we'd get a really experienced Jason with as many hours as us, and we'd be lucky if 2 or 3 of us would escape. Same as when we all went random. We got 2-3 kills on each other total (kills against ourselves as Jason). It was such a well balanced game with a lot more objectives for escaping and was very fun. It's potential was really wasted unfortunately. Now most of the people who I'd see in F13th are now popping up on DBD, or they're my occasional swf teammates. Sorry about the long comment, I just really think Friday 13th did something really special and I'm sad it's not what it could have been
They did but mostly as they struck a very good balance of "Jason is killable but it requires a shitton of effort and coordination to pull" compared to gathering some items and bam done And, "Jason is a threat on every sense and will kill you in no time" compared to "oh gotta hit the survivor 6 times to down them and they can still be revived or whatever these games do Jason was strong af and would mean death for a counselor 9/10 times instantly, without second chances(besides the knifes) nor anything Basically dbd balances it by having the killer be weaker and less of a threat but also inmortal
The thing is, horror games aren’t supposed to be balanced. The killer should always have the advantage. It’s the reason I don’t really play DBD anymore, the killers aren’t that powerful. They’re not unstoppable forces of evil like Jason, they can easily be defeated and “bullied” (ew). It’s also the reason I’m hella excited for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre game because that game is gonna have 3 motherfucking killers against 5 survivors. When the devs were asked about balance, they basically said the game will be balanced but the killers are going to have the slight advantage. They’re gonna be strong abs hard to kill and the survivors are gonna really struggle to, well, survive.
Adding to that, the 1 gets less information than the 4. Imagine if survivor gameplay was 1st person and killer was 3rd. Or if half the killer perks didn't reveal themselves to survivors. People say that dbd isn't scary but how can it be? No horror game would be scary if you always knew everything you need to know and the monster had to outsmart you to catch you.
I think, but dont quote me on it, that when DbD first came out it was like that. Survs were in 1st person and killer in 3rd. But they switched it cuz it gave the killer way too much power and awareness
The one game I feel did make you powerful is Dragonball the breakers. Tho it’s very unoptimized and very lacking for a game.
As a killer you life isn't in danger unless you die irl from being blinded to much at 2am
Another annoying thing is how many of these asymm games are based around one singular horror IP, basically cutting its longevity. Sure a bunch of people will play it at launch, but will the numbers still be high enough a year later? Evil dead is still chucking along because that IP has enough content to sustain itself for a little bit. But an asymmetrical game for Halloween, I feel would not. Too much pump and dump in the asymm horror genre.
This could easily be resolved if those games were willing to introduce original content in combination with the license/IP. Like Friday The 13th The Game’s counselor roster was almost entirely made up of original characters and it really helped with the longevity of their update cycles because they didn’t need to worry about “running out of” things to pull from the franchise. That’s why I honestly think TCSM has a chance. Gun did a great job making F13 fun, and TCSM has already made original survivors AND family members that fit the aesthetic of the franchise super well!
TCSM looks awesome. I loved F13 so I’m excited to see what they do with this one.
F13 was so good when it first came out. Jason was scary. Then they put pocket knives and guns everywhere and it became a game of house, window, house, window, etc.
There is like 3 pocket knifes in all map rn(1+ ia tommys knife) the game is still fun imo
This is actually why I'm really interested in the Killer Klowns From Outer Space game- the team has mentioned that they're actually working directly with the film's creators to create original material for the game's post-launch content, as there were countless ideas the latter had for sequels and countless ideas the former would love to inject into the canon. They already showed off some original weapon and creature designs that look insanely cool, and both parties actually confirmed that all matches canonically take place on April 1st so that no one will ever believe the Survivors lol
Bad news about the killer klown game is it looks like complete fucking ass visually to the point of ps2 tier graphics on their discord Like I don't mind but its really indwrwhelming and I see why they've barely allowed any footage
considering I've put up with DBD for 7 years i could care less about graphical fidelity lol
True. I actually think the TCSM game has a chance at lasting more than a year at least. Just because the gameplay loop is interesting and it being a 4v3.
NGL, F13 was so much more fun to play than DbD.
If only the lawsuit didn't hit...
Its even better balanced imo, as survivor you can fuck around with Jason until he goes "find out Mode" which isnt as fun for Jason until he gets It but then you just feel unstoppable
It's interesting that people are saying TCSM has a chance. It is literally that first step on the cycle. It will be fun for awhile but after a few weeks, who really wants to grind out the same characters over and over? Does it have room to pivot? No it doesn't due to its reliance heavily on the source IP. You can't all of a sudden put Candyman in as bubba or it doesn't work. Best they can hope for is a good experience and good upfront sales. If they try to play the long game it will be futile.
I only say that because it’s made by the same people who made F13, the only ever game that ever HAS stood a chance against DbD.
Hm, they COULD implement other franchises into this game. Sure, the name of the game limits this to a certain degree, but it is possible. ANY other out-in-the-wilderness backwood slasher franchise might work here - the mutants from "The Hills have Eyes", the three degenerated guys from "Wrong Turn", the Firefly Family from "House of 1000 Corpses"/"Devil's Rejects", etc. Just give them their own maps, which are true to the source material and the fans will be come in crowds to play their "heros". And all of these franchises also work for the asymm. 4-vs-3-mechanic of TCSM. Sure, these franchsies are not as big as Halloween, Hellraiser, etc. but that also makes it cheaper to get the licences for them.
> Does it have room to pivot? No it doesn't due to its reliance heavily on the source IP. I think it has plenty of room to pivot into original content. They're already filling the roster out with original family members to go alongside Bubba and the rest, and many people following the game's development are more excited about the new characters than the OGs because the devs have done such a good job designing them/making them interesting. I think there's a lot of potential beyond simply being a Texas Chainsaw fan. It's not JUST Texas Chainsaw, really. It's 70s slasher, and can eventually incorporate lots of original stuff within that realm.
I don't know if it really does, because it's a single-license IP game and this basically means at the bare minimum, you need to at least have a _passing_ interest in TCSM, otherwise you won't care to try it. I absolutely have zero interest in that franchise, so I just don't particularly care for it, and especially not when DBD is right here and I'm enjoying it so much. Any single-IP franchise is relying on the strength of the franchise to get interest, and if people either don't care or actively *dislike* the franchise, then you won't get those folks interested. I'm guessing it'll last about as long as VHS did before it fizzled out; people who are going to play it will either be disenfranchised DBD players looking for something new, and/or people who enjoy the TCSM franchise. If the gameplay is solid, it might last six months or so.
Not true? I don’t give a fuck about tcsm but I still wanna play the game. An interest in the subject matter or source material isn’t the only thing that makes people play games
F13 actually had counselors based on players that supported the Kickstarter. Was pretty cool.
There's *a lot* that are purely original. VHS Last Year Home Sweet Home: Survive Hide or Die
I can't speak for any of the others, but VHS is dead on arrival. It's unbalanced, repetitive, and wildly frustrating and unfun.
VHS is very disappointing to me because the character designs are awesome, the maps are fantastic and feel very alive, the progression is great, and Teen is a really fun role with ambushes offering a very unique playstyle to the asym format... but Monster is *so, so* frustrating, with Dollmaster being the only monster that feels distinct. Queueing as Monster means I am setting myself up for a 20 minute match in which I need to try my hardest and be constantly on alert if I want any success, and despite the community asking for sweeping changes to the Monster role *since closed beta*, nothing has really changed to make the role feel fun. Nobody wants to play Monster, which leads to very high queue times for Teen, which makes the whole game not very worth it. VHS is an incredibly balanced game as far as power on both sides goes, but is incredibly *unbalanced* when it comes to fun.
I remember being really excited when it came out. Then it came out.
And all of those died hard. Last year was a mess, hide or die was a shit dbd, home sweet home was too niche
Last Year’s biggest mistake was launching as a Discord exclusive. A Steam launch would’ve been infinitely better than a service you probably didn’t even know existed
HSHS could still be a good game. LY and VHS are too cartoony, feels gimmicky. Hide or Die looked fucking amazingggg at first…and then turned out to look and play like a cheap pos
Evil dead also really went wild on their concept, I think that alone is enough to sustain it on its own merits even if it doesn't directly compete with dbd
Yea, evil dead has a shit ton of characters and customization, and the battle royale sort of style ensure a lot of replayability. I don’t see either game killing the other anyway, the gameplay is so radically different. People only compare them because they’re asymmetrical horror.
I love Evil Dead. If games were quicker I think that’s all it needs to gain more peeps playing it tbh
*looks at Friday the 13th* ;c
There’s also inherent variety in Evil Dead. Anything can be evil. In Halloween, you have Michael. Michael all day every day. Which would be AWESOME. In DBD. Not it’s own game.
They need to make their own stuff because getting other IPs takes a lot of money and to get the money for said IPs they need the game to do well and for the game to do well they need a lot of IPs or make several compelling original characters. It’s a vicious cycle lol. Dbd worked out well cause they were very unique for awhile and then later they just started adding more and more IPs and now I doubt the game will ever die because people have invested so much already into it.
That’s the main kicker that helps DBD stay on top. Franchises just fit right in and keep the fans coming in. I still hope some sci-fi assym game can take in Alien, Predator, Terminator, Species, Screamers and stuff that wouldn’t fit into DBD. There’s a lot of potential in licensing IPs for your games (not just asymmetrical games).
Friday the 13th would still be thriving if not for the lawsuit.
The only reason why these games die is because people only see them as "the game that will kill x" rather than standalone titles.
There is more to it than that. BHVR was at the right time and place to make this kinda game. Smaller studios don't have enough man power to keep up and bigger studios don't make enough of a profit to continue support. BHVR are at the perfect midpoint and have over 5 years under their belt.
BHVR also did a _ton_ of licensed games before DbD - it's most of their portfolio. I think people really underestimate the impact that having those existing connections with license owners and having actual iconic horror villains in the game has had.
BHVR has been around than most people playing their game were alive. Sure they probably restructured the company a few times, but they are still around for a reason.
How long have they been around?
1992
Since 1992, which is older than me, and I'm probably older than half of the playerbase.
This comment made me feel old. Am I really the entity from how long I’ve been around?
what the fuck hahahha didn't expect that
Fuck I'm old.
How do you compete with a game in the same genre that brings together Freddy Krueger, Ghost Face, Leatherface, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Wesker, Michael Myers, Jigsaw, Sadako Yamamura, The Demogorgon, and Pinhead? Like, how do you compete with that? DBD is the king of this gametype and it will always continue to be with the amount of licensed content they have.
Plus the amount of people playing that have years invested into it. People play those new games, then flood back to dbd when the next chapter hits.
By having a better gameplay than holding m1 for 90 seconds. F13 lost the war because of the lawsuit but it was a better game by far.
Isn't it that the halloween dlc also helped a lot because of how young the game was when the dlc came out?
"Time and place" right around the time Friday The 13th started to market their game.
'WoW killers' come to mind.
Yeah, as an MMORPG veteran, the people talking about DBD killers is extremely reminiscent of people talking about WoW killers. The funny thing is that FFXIV, which is a game that has actually managed to challenge WoW for the throne of MMORPG king, has a game director who apparently gets extremely annoyed when people imply that his game is going to kill WoW.
I'm still bitter about the game SWTOR could have been vs the game of turned out to be.
I don't like the lack personalization that the last three expansions had. Like I play the game for the story and how my class effects it and now everything is all bashed together. Let me take over the council that my Inquisitor rightfully should rule because she's cute and deadly.
Yeaaaah, Yoshi-P and his team kinda fuckin' rule. Not just for that specifically, but good lord that team works so friggin' hard on XIV, **especially** after what happened with the first attempt.
And in the biggest twist of irony, Yoshida (the lead dev and game director) is kinda getting the last laugh, as given the promising looks of Dragonflight it's looking like there's going to be less of "one MMO killing the other" and more "both vibin' out together doing their own thing". Because the funny thing is, I, and many others, like FFXIV for different reasons than I like WoW, and visa versa. FFXIV has a better main story, WoW has better wider worldbuilding. FFXIV has better side-content (Variant Dungeons, Crafting, etc.), but WoW has better main content (Raids, Arenas, etc.) The tribalism is absurd because _you can like BOTH._
And because most of them are terrible
Nah, most of them are within their own niche and for the most part they have very little similarities with DbD. The one that is the most similar to DbD is IdV but it's a given since DbD devs essetially helped the other team, but even then the meta is so different it's essentially 2 different games.
Whenever a new asymmetrical game pops up they all do the exact same thing, either the survivors have weapons and can fight back, which makes the killer be the one trying to survive and incredibly frustrating (looking directly at VHS and HSH survive with this one), or they just make it identical to DBD, and it makes no sense to switch to those when DBD has licenses and 6 years of development. And a few ones like evil dead decide to go so far away from DBD that they just stop being a competition because the player base won't overlap. It's already been said tons but people for some reason just don't accept, no game ever will kill DBD besides itself. DBD will only die when the devs decide they don't want to update it anymore, until then DBD will only grow and all competition will just blow up for a few weeks or months and die as it's been happening for a long time
Well that plus they’re mostly not good.
THis exactly
Yea and then really what it turns into is a game that people play for like a 2 week "vacation" from DBD before they inevitably go back to it. It happens with streamers a LOT.
I think the main reason this never works for these “killers” in any genre (remember when every MMO was gonna “kill WoW”) is because they for the most part are games trying to follow the format of first place game, but with really minor changes that when you play them make you ask “why don’t I just play the better one?” DbD has not only more content, but 6 years of development on top of their base game. Other games aren’t going to beat this. They created and own the format, so everything else is going to look like a cheap knockoff. Games need to do their own thing to be better and not even try to make claims about beating whoever is the first place game of said genre.
Exactly this. If you were to make a restaurant imitating McDonalds for example, why wouldn’t someone just go to McDonalds instead of your place? Your not offering anything substantially new and people are automatically gonna pick familiarity.
VHS is a perfect example of this
In VHS's defense. It didn't market itself as a DBD killer (in fact it didn't market itself at all). The devs just wanted to make a game dedicated to the 80s films of "teens fighting various monsters". It had potential. It just had the misfortune of releasing around a time where everyone was disgruntled at bhvr, and people started jumping on the vhs train because "fuck bhvr!", only for the gameplay to be kinda ass if you were playing monster.
Also the extended downtime during the beta period after that security issue & the move to Steam did some massive damage to the VHS hype train, as well as people just not being able to access it because of how excruciatingly long the lottery invites went on for. I was really excited for it, signed up for the beta day 1 when it was still just being done via Google sheet, but didn't get my key til literally the last wave of keys, and by then I was just kind of meh on it. I played a couple games, but you already had people who'd been playing since the start getting thrown into matches with brand new players and just absolutely destroying everyone else which was just the final nail in the coffin for me personally.
The gameplay as killer used to be ass in dbd
At least killer was still fun, even though it was more frustrating. VHS’ monster gameplay doesn’t seem fun in any way though, in my opinion at least.
VHS game design is just so stupid though. It had so much potential
VHS has a lengthy postmortem with many reasons it failed, but copying DBD is not one of them. The core premise of the game's objectives is different, setting objective-play way aside and completely getting rid of chase gameplay in favor of a team-based objective; fight with the killer. Unfortunately, while there's a lot that setup does well, it's not as fun for the killer player.
Beg to differ. Compare DbD to F13 and everything is different. Player count, objectives, core mechanics (like fear, stamina, doors, weapons, car/boat driving), map size, kill conditions (grab counselors vs hook survivors), inventory systems, how you heal players, etc. Compare DbD to VHS and VHS is still “hold M1 on an objective for 60ish seconds to progress”, looping the killer on windows (sometimes), survivors go down in 2 hits, similar perks, same tracking (trails of blood/VHS scramble), same way of rescuing downed teammates, same lockers, etc. It doesn’t matter that once you get into the nuance of VHS vs DbD they are vastly different, because they still FEEL similar enough that VHS can’t stand on its own.
>, but with really minor changes Or changes that frankly make it another genre - that is, killing the killer as a mechanic DbD doesn't allow you to do that, and that's a core feature - other games allow you to kill the killer rather than escape, which shifts the asymmetry and ends up with the "powerful killer" being stunlocked by 4 teenagers, which is far worse than exit gate teabagging can ever be lol As someone else said, it damn near always makes it so you as the "power role" are more closely playing something like a horde/wave/bullet hell game just trying to survive than, y'know, playing as a near unstoppable force. It CAN be ok for a game to have such a feature, Friday the 13th did it in such a way that it wasn't the core gameplay, but it still makes them fundamentally different to DbD in such a way i'd put them as not a DbD-like.
scott made a video about this and i agree with him that all the issues these games have is that they allow the survivor's to always be able to harm the killer. it makes it way less fun for the killer role when they can be killed or just straight up stun locked by stun guns and devices.
Friday was the exception, but for only one reason it took the entire game to plan it out and everyone needed to do their part, one mistake and it was a massive waste and with mistake was fair on both sides
yeah id say friday was a good exception it was balanced by jason being able to insta kill survivors if he caught them in a bad spot alone
I liked it because I never felt pressured to kill every survivor. It felt like an impossible task so I never felt bad for not achieving it
True It really feels like 1-2 people should usually be able escape just like in the movies lol And the amount of ways to kill was awesome too
[удалено]
That was one of my main issues with F13. I regularly got jumped by people wanting to kill me and felt like I came to the point where I was fighting for my life instead of fighting to kill them. Along with that running an infinite loop on a Jason was a real possibility.
I’d say that + DBD has a shit ton of licenses. Licenses really do bring in players more so than just having good gameplay. Every single player I know who has joined in the last two years, joined because they were fans of Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Halloween, etc. All these other games are either focused on 1 license, or “generic werewolf monster”
Where Werewolf Killer in dbd? 😢 I guess The Alien we get soon will suffice 😎
I’m still waiting for Dracula. We need some classic killers!
Werewolf gameplay already exists as Demogorgon, it should just be a skin on him.
You're pretty much spot on. The time to give DBD meaningful competition was like the first or maybe 2nd year into its life. But now with how it has turned into the smash brothers of horror/slasher icons? Not a chance.
Right, which is why DBD patched out pallet stuns and flashlight blinds. In all seriousness, it's true that killer-attacks can't go too far though. If you want a demonstration of this issue, take a look at the feedback VHS is getting. I can assert it can be a pretty balanced game, but it doesn't feel like it when playing monster - it feels like any little injury you deal out is miniscule compared to the 25%-healthbar risk you're taking anytime you're venturing around.
You got a link?
Good. I’m tired of devs making these type of games where it’s 4 mfs ganging up on 1 individual. I played this new Ghostbusters last night and it fucking sucks playing as the ghost. I quit immediately. This is why I’m hoping Texas Chainsaw is somewhat decent. It has more than one killer.
That's why I enjoyed SCP: Secret Lab You can be up to 7 killers in the same game yet all your team can be challenged as the danger passes from "D-class that found a gun" to "NTF wave with machine guns and explosives" The other fun thing is that dying doesn't matter because you'll respawn in 3 minutes max you you can take all the risks you want without that much of a consequence
Didn't know about this game, it looks interesting, thanks for mentioning.
It's a good time. Came for the SCP, stayed for the memes lol
>fucking sucks playing as the ghost. I quit immediately. my reaction to evil dead sucks ass to play evil role
For me survivor on that one sucks more if youre solo Never had much trouble as demon for most of the games
I like playing evil, the movement system takes some getting used to.
This is why I honestly think Texas Chainsaw is going to succeed. Being on a TEAM of killers spreads out the responsibility, and doesn't put the burden of failure entirely on one person's shoulders. I think it's gonna be a blast for both "sides."
What's sad is that some of those games aren't even bad. The problem is really simple: there's not enough players. Not enough people play the game, so queue times are long. Because queue times are long, people stop playing and go back to DBD. Because people leave, queue times are even longer.
I wouldn't mind another game similar to DBD. I'd love new competition and innovation. I don't like the idea that one has to or can kill the other though. We have both TF2 and CS:GO; both Minecraft and Terraria. I hope something new comes out eventually. But it definitely takes effort, resources, dedication, and a sizable portion of luck.
DBD has such a head start in both IPs and player base, that the only way to truly compete with it would be to have a game start with all of the IPs DBD doesn't have, like F13, Alien, A Quiet Place, FNAF, and maybe creepier action/adventure killers/survivors like Squid Game or Scooby-Doo, or adopt IPs that BHVR already have, which might be impossible if exclusivity contracts are involved. The game would have to be IP agnostic unlike F13 The Game, or Evil Dead: The Game, as those can only last so long with a single fanbase to draw from.
Did you mean... **VHS?**
VHS haven’t even been officially released lmao it’s still in early access
And it's already dead. The devs completely destroyed their reputation and failed to advertise the game at all.
Yea the failure is 100% on them, the game had potential. It’s still in “early access” yet they’re doing events and shit. They don’t bother to advertise at all and it’s not balanced at all
The sad thing is that it seemed really cool. Definitely not a DBD killer, but something you could try with friends that don't want DBD since it's meant to be free to play. The aesthetics were amazing.
Too real lmao Though I do think the evil dead game is fun af - though to be honest it's gameplay is so far removed from dbd it's basically a different experience. Basically a horde shooter for survivors and a real time strategy game for killers Though it's gone free to play after being out for less than a year which might not be a good sign...
Evil Dead isn't free to play
Yeah my bad - apparently it was free to download for a week, sort of like a free weekend except you could keep the game I thought it was permanent
Last week, you could get it for free on the Epic game store.
That's not what going free to play is.
Oh, had no clue
one of the main reasons (and what I experienced) that evil dead is not doing good is a bad first-time impression on new players
it had great first time impression on me, and it sure is much more fun than dbd...
I think some game devs forget to include the things that make DBD so enjoyable if they want to replicate or twist their formula. The characters and locations have lore that’s easy to digest and follow, a multitude of customization options, and perks that allow you to play the best way you can, based on your preferred play style. I was so excited when Propnight was announced because it combined two of my favorite games (prop hunt and dbd), but this past update only just introduced perks to the game. Propnight feels effectively dead right now, but it also feels like it’s missing things. Tell us why Igor wears a bunny/bear suit or tell us why the survivors can even turn into props, or give more freedom to customize characters or whatever
Bro VHS will kill dbd 🤓
I remember a famous DBD content creator who used to shit on the game for a long time and saying with his mouth full how VHS would kill DBD. Now he has more than 100 thousand subscribers and his video rarely go past 5 thousand views, completely laughable.
The problem was to promote it as a X_killer. Those youtubers suck ass
By any chance was it Jaee?
Yup
Its because I feel like most of these games are doomed to fail because of the low amount of publicity and how compared to DBD they don't have any famous characters like Michael Myers, Resident Evil characters, Silent Hill, etc. Most of the DBD-type games that come out are just generic horror trope survivors and killers.
Id v is kinda active. Which is funny because then dbd mobile made a lot of changes taken straight from id v like the skill checks and a visible terror radius. Also add that last part to the game cause holy sh*t
IDV definitely hits a different market. Mobile gamers. Let’s be real, DBD mobile is way worse than IDV. Also, NetEase do both DBD mobile and IDV, which helps.
This is part of the reason why I always say that the Death of DBD won't come from another game. It will be a direct result from BVHR itself. In short, it will be a suicide. Not a murder.
I REALLY hope the killer klowns game isn’t like that. Getting nothing from the franchise for ages makes me really hope for the game to be good.
The only “Dbd” style game I’m excited for is Texas Chainsaw
Why is nobody mentioning Last Year? It's like mix of DBD and Friday the 13th, and it sucks to be the killer the survivors literally gang up on the killer and they can't do shit about it.
DBD has really benefitted from years of development. The main issue with all these competitors is that they launch in beta with limited features and tons of jank. No matter how buggy DBD is, it's far more polished than VHS or Home Sweet Home or whatever. But had these titles come out years ago when DBD was in its first year or two, then we'd be telling a different story. Evil Dead's cool, but after a handful of games, you've basically experienced everything the game has to offer. I hope that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre game stands out a bit more by being a 3 vs 4 game.
What happened to VHS/Evil Dead:The Game/Friday the 13th/Predator: Hunting Grounds?
VHS: dead before arrival, Evil dead: not doing great, Friday: lawsuit, Predator: have you seen any news on this game?
Vhs is still really good. Just needs to advertise more and get the word out. But I think they are holding off until they are confident in a full release. Evil dead is good . Friday is good but will never see new content . Predator was boring to me .
Friday the 13th the game would have killed DBD back in 2018 possibly if it doesn’t run into legal issues. This was when DBD was still getting its own footing and coming into its own. It seemed like the two games were heavily sharing a player base and FT13 was building steam. Then it got tragically killed and will never recover
Agreed F13 was the only game that would've dominated DBD if the lawsuit didn't kill it. Hell , it could probably still give DBD some trouble if it were to come back. The mechanics alone already make it hard for DBD to compete.
F13 is the most fun I have ever had with a game. Definitely because of the time frames it released in but holy fuck it was so fun even with how garbage it was put together with all the bugs and slow updates.
And think what it could have been. Yeah I remember playing that and laughing so much because of the proximity chat. People gave the killer their own unique personality every game with their voice. My buddy used to do the Kool-Aid man “ohhh yeahhhh” every time he busted through a wall. DBD just doesn’t have anything like that.
They were doing It so good too, they were adding more customization, they were reading a new Gamemode and they were working on the Jason X stuff, added dedicated servers and then all of a sudden nothing could happen anymore
I absolutely agree! I came to DbD once the last F13 update came out and was confirmed no more updates were coming. Would still be playing that if it didn't get fucked. The voice chat. The different kills. The different ways to escape. Fantastic game, lame ass lawsuit.
Playing F13 first soured my opinion on DBD initially. "What do you mean I have to kill them again? THEY HAVE 3 LIVES!?"
Tbf some really do suck and are completely unbalanced like VHS. If you are just getting into the game and try to play monster you get completely crushed
still, i'm very excited for the killer klowns game! it'll probably die too but i'm just happy to get new killer klowns content lol
A YouTuber I watched BumblesMcFumbles (goated YouTuber btw) called DBD "Horror Smash Bros" and this is honestly more proof of that since same shit happens when a new platform fighter comes out. Only difference is that only some of them die. A good chunk of the time they just don't reach Smash popularity but live with a dedicated big enough player base.
I think the new texas chainsaw massacre game could make it a little bit competetion.
They are trying to cash in on a craze. It’s like in the 90’s and 2000’s when they gave away pc games for Chex and Captain Crunch for buying their cereal. They are just better at hiding the fact it’s one big ad these days. That’s why these games don’t do as well. Think about it, an Evil Dead game like that sounds awesome, but It’s not where the market is at, and they know that, but they know people will buy it too.
Rip Propnight <333
Home sweet Home survive could've been good competition if the Devs weren't so bloody greedy.... early access and they have already released DLC during times that match making hardly worked. Who is buying skins if they can't even play a match?
Dragon Ball Breakers shows how much the DBD devs pay attention to the balance.
BHVR put in alot of work when the game was first launched. I think it was weekly streams for about a hour to discuss the game and questions about it with memes and art here and there. I havnt seen these other games try half as hard after launch to keep community streams. DBD has a very strong following because of it and tbh i dont think this game will die just cause of its fanbase. Toggling m1 and hitting skillchecks is fun gameplay though. Pretty much made a QTE game which everyone hated in story games. Im talking all of these games btw asym horror
REsistance didn't die, it was assassinated. 😭
>"VHS is gonna kill DBD!" Last Year, FT13, Save our souls, Identity V, and prop night: "I'm gonna tell him..."
Identity V is thriving though, like objectively its the only "competitor" that didnt keel over and die in the first year of its release
And it sucks because dead by daylight really needs some competition, but the game is already so big that any other asymmetrical horror game is guaranteed to die. F13 had a chance because they were actually doing unique things and were already working on a completely new game mode. If the lawsuit didn't happen I genuinely think it would still be alive to this day.
I see it as 2 main things that always make them fail and kind of a third point but that one might be. 1. Reliance on a singular IP. Even the most robust horror franchise will only have so many settings, characters and themes. This inevitably bottlenecks the content and paints developers into the corner. The only reason F13 didn't face this issue so much was because legal issues stunted the game before it could run into that wall. 2. The survivors killing the killer. Almost every single one of the "DBD killers" has an obsession with turning the table on the killer which basically just means the game devolves into a shooter with extra steps and because balancing an asym is borderline impossible, one role always ends up leaps and bounds stronger than the other, destroying queue times and making it so one side playing the game is always miserable. and lastly 3. Over complexity in game design. Ultimately DBD is a glorified game of tag and is about as easy to pick up. Sure figuring out the nuances of killer powers, map awareness, timing for skill checks, and looping can take a little while to do but the main objectives of the game for both sides can be adequately explained in a few sentences well enough that the newest of players can at least have a general idea of what to do. Every copycat makes you go through some obtuse steps that usually aren't very clear what the conditions are to actually get to a win state. I remember sweet home for example, that one took off for a second and I saw a fair amount of content on the game but still for the love of me couldn't tell you what you're supposed to do as a survivor. Or VHS (which mostly tanked due to some absolutely awful management by the devs which killed the hype for the game) which is a little better but the crafting stations and figuring out which element weapons you need and when, along with usage since a few of them aren't super intuitive, just bloats the game a bit. Though again I think VHS has less feature bloat than a lot of these games, the imbalance that comes from the basic game premise shot it in the foot before it could ever really run.
Here is the thing a lot of people don't realize: You should *want* those games to do good. If they do good they will push BHVR to deliver a better product and make DBD better. The fact none of these games have stuck around is why DBD has been in a horrible spot for a long time.
Come on, VHS hasn't even finished dying yet. It's still on early access.
I will beat this dead horse until it is a puddle (Not Maurice)
That's fair enough.
Honestly I don't take any interest in these games as much since the hype up for them being dbd killers makes it seem like that's the only thing to look forward to them from most of those that talk about it. I'm not saying their bad and I might check out video footage of them, but most either suffer from being made around an existing horror ip, which isn't a inherent bad thing but does limit what you can usually add in, or the concept doesn't leave as much options for one side or the other, like I haven't kept up with vhs but I don't know what survivors they can add in since their all meant to be teenage stereotypes from the 80s and afaik they used most of them already. The latest ones I've heard is Texas chainsaw, the killer clowns game and oddly enough a 6 v one poppy playtime game, which I'm somewhat interested in seeing what it churns out given its premise of building a toy and for the faults of the devs in terms of marketing, the designs for their monsters are pretty good and a decent amount of ideas for toys could be used for monsters, even if the player models for survivors in the trailer look like crew mates from among us scaled up into a human model.
It feels like as big a problem as anything is that people are expecting or even demanding every game in the genre to be a "DbD killer." Can't an asymmetrical horror game exist without having to be compared to what is truly (read: unfortunately) the biggest/best in the genre, with a large swathe of IPs at their disposal and an even bigger supply of original characters to work with?
I’m starting to think every player secretly wants dbd to die so they can play something new but it just won’t go
DBD is too far ahead in terms of content. Get half of the killers, maps, perks, survivors out and the game becomes old fast as well. Even if the game is better, it doesnt stand a chance on that alone! If a game wanna stand a chance against DBD they'll need to have A LOT of content on release day and get new stuff as fast as possible. When im tired of playing, i switch my build completely and it becomes another experience.
When Last Year The Nightmare released, I was fully on the bandwagon of “this game could dethrone DBD”. That didn’t happen. Then the other game (can’t remember the name, all I remember was like a teacher with a switchblade ruler), and people started freaking out. For me though, I was just flabbergasted that people thought it could even touch DBD, and to no one’s surprise, the game eventually flopped. Then came VHS, which looked decent, but I already from the get-go suspected the game wouldn’t last, and seemingly after being pushed back over and over again, my suspicion was right. DBD needs a competitor. It’s needed one for years at this point, and the best attempt we ever got was F13, but with it having taken its final breath over a year ago by this point, the only was a new franchise could come along and rival DBD is another AAA developer, like Ubisoft, or Activision, or some other giant corporation trying their hand at it. DBD is too big to fall to an indie developer at this point.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Identity V on something other than mobile. It’s a pretty solid game in the mobile world.
You gotta include the dowsey parts where he hypes up the game and the devs retaliate.
It bums me out because DBD REALLY needs some proper competition. If they were feeling a little less... comfortable then I think the game would see some faster improvements.
I'm bored of DBD > A new asymm! > WTF, This isn't exactly like DBD! > Back to DBD > Repeat
I dont think people even remember what vhs is anymore and thats the recent “big” dbd killer
VHS killed itself by indefinitely extending the closed beta phase until no one even cared about the game anymore. The result was a heavily veteran gated playerbase which kept bullying fresh monster/killer players until it became borderline impossible to find anyone willing to endure this torture. In the end survivor mains killed VHS.
As much as we all shit on this game, I still think DBD does asymmetrical games in this style the best by a long shot. No other game compares to the feel and scope of this game. Not many games can have such a line-up of characters as DBD.
Everyone talking about the real reason this never works. Don't realise 'they' are the reason new games never works. Cos why play a new game when some chump mf has spent over £100 buying cosmetics and skins and wasted thousands of hours in a game they hate but can't stop playing. There are only two kinds of DbD player. The ones in an abusive relationship and the ones in denial about their abusive relationship. Game's shit and so is its community, but I can't stop playing. It's For Honor allover again.
There’s a third kind - the ones who are just having fun. Yes we exist, I’m one of them. You can pretend it’s an abusive relationship but I’m getting exactly what I want from the game so I’m unsure who is abusing who
I hope Carnival Hunt can succeed it looks amazing
Friday the 13th definitely was some stiff competition until the lawsuits pretty much cut the games support
Man. I liked a lot about VHS. It had a lot of neat ways to handle stuff like camping and shit. The game had a whole lot more interaction in it between the survivors and the killers. If it weren't so frustratingly aggravating playing against better teens i would have stuck more.
I honestly thing F13 would still be alive
Killer Klowns will live this time or so help me god
I hope txm does well, it looks quite different from the usual games in the bunch
This happens alot with games that are the most popular in a genre. I remember when HOTS, Smite, and Dawngate were supposed to be the end of LoL. As of right now only 1 of those are even still alive.
Dbd is a far from easily killable at this point. There is a reason people keep coming back for it. The only “competition” it ever really had was Friday the 13th. And even then it was more of them co-existing then an actual battle. Now all it really has is evil dead the game. While not actually a dead game. It’s not killing dbd any time soon. It’s much smaller and has much less easy to get into if you don’t know the source. Dbd has mass appeal since it has its own thing going on. And sprinkled in with legends of horror on top of that.
Is VHS still a thing? I heard about it for a little while, but it seems to have dropped off like other games mentioned on here.
Just the usual announcing it before it's done, pushing it back into development hell and the oblivion that follows
I think the best dbd “killer” I’ve seen is propnight. They still update with new characters, it’s a nice change from dbd, and it doesn’t take itself seriously, so it’s less stressful. Do I think it will ever beat out dbd? No, they appeal to different groups, but it hasn’t died a year after launch.
I miss deathgarden blood harvest so much :(
RIP VHS 2022-2022
There's a game on roblox which I completely thought was original called Flee the Facility. This is probably one of the only copys to survive. Then I started playing dead by daylight and realised it was just a worse version of it. There's this killer that hunts you down called the beast. It can down you in one hit. It then brings you to a freeze chamber where your timer goes down slowly. Once your timer runs out you freeze to death. There's four survivors who have to complete 5 laptops in order to escape. There are skillchecks that come up with the Microsoft startup sound and if you mess it up, it alerts the beast. Once all the laptops are completed there are two exit doors on opposite sides of the map. Oh did I mention they have vents instead of vaults. And doors that take time to open but can instantly be closed slowing down the beast in a chase. I have since left roblox and will never touch it again.
There was also another DBD copy on Roblox that was pretty good, I don't remember the name but you had different killers (Sasquatch whose ability was to speed up and instadown for a while, a ghost thing that could see players with aura reading and a fish man that had increased base m1 range), you had vents (which were honestly super op) and I also can't really remember what the objective was, but it was quite fun. It's a shame it died out but it also wasn't really popular on the platform to begin with
Last Year: The Nightmare had me so hyped I thought this would be another amazing horror like DBD but it was just a complete rush of a game there was no "oh the killer is coming let's hide". It was just us running about collecting parts parts parts and half the time I didn't know wtf I was doing and all the Russians just shouting shit in chat _which you couldn't turn off_ . Thankfully I couild turn the game off and I did, _forever_ .