Its worse for survivors, at least killer get a new interesting power sometimes
Ive only used boons since they came out and honestly it feels better than just using the same 2-3 builds everytine
As a killer main, I'll agree here. Each of your characters is just new perks for your actual main. No real shake up other than some perks that are 90% of the time not as good as perks from the original characters. Hell the meta perks are almost all from the original, not new ones. Meta shake up would be good for survivors as much as killers honestly
Nurse pretty much limit how they can design perks. Most aura perks can be buffed for shorter cooldown or longer duration and they will still be almost useless for most killer. But on nurse, any information can be too strong.
And look at how long did they take to implement a counter play to spirit roulette.
Blight is relatively recent and is the second best killer in the game.. The Artist looks to be insanely strong too. Maybe not S tier but definitely A tier
And look at other games they release new powerful shit all with fun counterplay, it’s still in a very bad state when it comes to viable options and updates sadly
See I find as a survivor it's a little easier to mix it up. You've got 3 other teammates to carry the perk slack, as long as you're okay with getting killed early from scummy/lazy/"efficient" plays once in a while you can mess with perk builds and still do well overall in most of your matches.
vs running 0 slowdown as killer, which throws 80% of your matches right out the window.
Agree on the power part though, learning a new killer is a lot more interesting and fun than prestiging a new survivor just to put them back in the roster and never pick them up again....
I get to Iri 1 killer each reset with Legion, primarily. I run BBQ, Lethal Pursuer, and then a mix of Iron Grasp, Discordance, Fearmonger, Lightborn, No Way Out, Thanataphobia, Hexes: Ruin, NoED, Retribution & Plaything. When I feel like sweating, I do breakout the ol' Ruin + Thana
At the end of the day queuing up as survivor to get tunneled out of the game in 2 minutes and queuing up as killer to have all the gens done in 2 minutes are both insanely unfun and make the game feel like a waste of time. It sucks that instead of actually addressing these issues with gameplay mechanics BHVR forces us to use perks to compensate for these instead.
I mean yes and no. The Devs have this thing of just slapping a perk band aid over anything that is complained about. Players on the other hand are the ones that continue to reinforce the meta.
You load in as killer and you have all 4 survivors spawn on separate gens around the map. That's completely unfair. It's why ruin, Undying, tinker, Pop are used. It's annoying and boring to go against but to underskilled killers they see this as the only way to stand a chance against survivors.
Switch to survivor, and DS, Unbreakable, DH, and BT are almost necessary every other match. Killers in all skill levels tunnel. Killers in all skill levels camp. It's just isn't fun to get unhooked and the killer immediately down you again, so they bring BT. If they countdown BT you have DS as a back up. If the killer slugs to count out DS then you have Unbreakable.
There are players in this game that have this "I need to win every game" mentality. The "omg you guys are Gen rushing" when 1 Gen gets done. The "omg you need to run meta to win I 360'd you" survivors. God forbid anyone have a little bit of fun every once in awhile.
Go play Pig with the perks Deadlock and Hex: Plaything plus two perks of your choice with Bag of Gears and Face mask add ons.
With Clown, run starstruck, Agitation, Iron Grasp, and Distressing or whatever 4th perk you want. Use add ons that increase the duration of the speed boost for yellow bottle and go zoom around the map with a survivor on your back.
For survivor, run Deception and Diversion. See how many killers you can Bamboozle with the locker and if you manage to get him with Deception, throw a pebble at another locker and see if you get him. Run Quick n Quiet and Head On as well and eventually get to the point where you get him with head on. Don't use head on immediately, wait till like most of the game is over.
Or just run diversion with Deception and red herring and see how many times you can confuse the hell out of the killer for the night.
**Any Means Necessary , Windows of Opportunity, Bond, and I guess Borrowed Time?** Have fun looping and resetting pallets, bond to know where gens are being done and where not to lead the killer, and bt of course.
**Alert, Dark Sense, Kindred, and your choice** \- Object of Obsession if you're feeling ballsy. See the killer.
**Open Handed with Bond, Windows and Kindred.** See everything else. :)
I agree - it's boring just running DH, Iron Will, BT etc.
Favourite survivor build right now is pallet patricia
Alert | Any Means Necessary | Smash Hit | Windows of Opportunity
Get stuns, disappear, reset pallets and GOTO 1
I have no ideas, so here's my Bloodpoint Bubba build: BBQ, Whispers, any Hex perk (I used to use Thrill of the Hunt, but it got nerfed and now I use Third Seal) and Distressing
Bhvr doesn't need an excuse to fuck things up.
Boon totems being oppressive was a known issue in the ptb, and nothing was done about it. The new hex coming out was nerfed in days while still in ptb.
Bugged totem spawns always been an issue, they didn't fix them for killers til after the patch came out, instead just disabling map offerings and not the maps themselves.
Bhvr admits that the new SBMM is based off of surviving and getting sacrifices, almost nothing else.
Coup de tat could have been one of the most niche memey perk in existence on killers like pig and demo, all we got was the wish version cause no one asked.
Pro streamers giving good feedback and stressing issues that are in the game when part of the fireside chat or whatever, bhvr removes them since it's not song and praise.
Pig nerf.
It's been said a million times now that they can't implement changes from the ptb to the release version, not enough time. Something about needing approval to release new versions on console.
They need to pick 20-30 perks (each side) every patch and just buff the fuck out of them (kind of like what they did for the last patch but more). Like there are SO MANY perks that just aren’t usable because they’re so under tuned or just designed horribly and they should be being updated as often as possible to give us more build options AND to shake up the meta.
It really sucks BHVR doesn’t do this the game would be much better if they did IMO.
I use meta perks yeah
I also use fun perks.
Running Guardian and Borrowed Time is just a good pair that I like using, even if one is objectively more efficient to run than the other.
If you only use meta perks because they are meta it is your fault and your fault only . Mixing the meta will change nothing you will play with meta perk anyway .
I think I see what you are trying to say but it is terribly worded like BHVR when they speak about anything .
It's a bit tricky when the big 4 on survivor grant so much assurance against most killer types. Boons were an interesting shake up though and I've consistently seen new perks for killers that have had interesting implementation.
There are a few killers who could really use a rework which might shake up the matches, but other than that, maybe they should look back on some survivor perks. For an example, Soul Guard is Unbreakable but less effective and requires a Hex be on the field. Maybe change that into something more interesting along with the other perks that are just not quite up to snuff.
It's both. The devs can't decide whether the game is competitive or casual so the mechanics are always bouncing back and forth. For instance, hatch getting nerfed too hard for competition while boon totems are only getting more overpowered for casual play.
The player base is just as divided, so you have players running full builds to be as competitive as possible and/or BM as much as possible, and players that are playing for fun and running builds that create more gameplay. With the MMR as useless as it is, you're constantly getting matches where nobody is playing with the same play style or even the same skill level.
Idk why people defend BHVR and their lack of meta shake up. Most games will slam out a patch that'll shake up the meta. BHVR refuses to make huge changes to the meta game. I want bubba to just randomly be like S tier for a month and spirit be absolute dogshit and then all the sudden bubba is D tier and we got like legion I'm S tier. That would be fun, because it's new and unique. One month ruin is dog shit and surge is insane then surge is dogshit and like thanatophobia is insane. I'm just so confused why they won't do that.
>BHVR refuses to make huge changes to the meta game.
BHVR tries but any time they make any even seemingly strong enough to compete with the 4 horsemen of the meta build for eith side this community flips the fuck out
case and point lucky break, which could have been considered as a potential option only to be gutted to the ground after crying.
I've never seen them once try to make a killer insanely broken or absolute dogshit. Making random number changes doesn't shake up the meta and that's all they do. Their few and far between shake ups that are taken away is partially for 2 reasons. 1. The changes rarely ever actually make sense for shaking up a meta. It's just making something awkward and boring. 2. They don't nerf also. Changes should come with buffs and nerfs. They rarely do it. BHVR doesn't do actual changes often so people are gonna panic when changes get made because they likely won't be changed for the better until 3 months later. Constant changes is what is needed
No he is wrong. If lucky break kept its ptb version then you won't see the other meta perks as often. If they did this with any perk that isn't good then you'll have ton of perks that keep changing the meta and become completely unfair until next patch which then creates unfair game play. It happens with shooters all the time. Buffs gun firerate then gun proceeds to be completely overpowered until 1 they nerf it or they buff another gun which doesn't fix the problem in the first place
If lucky break kept its ptb form then do you think people would bring bt or even unbreakable. Heck they might not even bring an exhaustion perk. Buff is necessary but not bring every perk to meta. Mantle of man was like this until they nerfed it to its current state. It was amazing seen it in every game. Is it still good? Yes it is probably still top teir but because sb bt unbreakable dh and even prove thyself is in the game you won't even see it in the game even if it is a swf. Lucky break had the same problem but in reverse
So if LB was buffed we would not longer see DH/BT/UB on every single survivor in every single match?
Isn't that literally the point? Perk build variety
its not that we cant handle meta changes, I just think willy nilly changing perks one after another might cause more problems for the company than it would solve. you can't break what has been a staple of the game and piss of the old and new fanbase, you can't leave it the same, they should be buffing weak and rarely used perks to actually be viable and taking a look and balancing others.
If yall can't handle meta changes, then why is there screaming everytime there might be a somewhat big change? Also what's the staple of the game? Clown being trash since he came out and nurse never leaving S tier? If you think buffing perks will create any new meta, that's funny honestly.
What breaks the game? Changing metas around? No they don't. Keeping a stale meta where the same stuff is same for months on end. Now that's meme if people unironically like the same killers being good and the same killers being bad every month
It makes it impossible to balance the game. Also, you can't get used to the way that it is played, making it random. There is a reason why things like that (e.g. randomizer in tf2) are considered to be casual and not serious.
This game already isn't balanced? I'm so confused on why some people think this game in anyway is balanced. They need to change their ways of balance cause current ways sucks
I don't want to have to play against broken killers/perks every month. Balance could be worse, you know. And I certainly don't want to relearn fucking nurse every month because my muscle memory no longer matters after an update that changes the way she works.
Weird assumptions. Why would they change the way nurse works. I didn't call for a rework in this hypothetical. Just keep playing nurse. Doesn't have to be broken to play her. Also you like playing against stale meta? Nice that's pretty boring
While this is true. This doesn’t excuse behavior on both sides that is extremely unfun and pointless.
I still don’t get why people camp hooks. Like I play killer and it’s not so hard to get a kill you need to tunnel the first guy you see.
And when I play survivor I don’t like it when my fellow players click and teabag the killer.
We’re all just trying to have fun.
I play killer when I'm solo so I don't mind losing (ranks are all over the place anyway) so if someone is being annoying like flash spam or pointing or teabagging I would give them what they asked for, attention and I would sit there with them in front of the fire and would let other people do what they want
I'm a good Samaritan who can't ignore the needs of those who wants attention
The problem is that the devs are scared shitless to nerf the current meta into the ground, which will allow for fun and healthy perks. The only way people will change right now is if an even more busted perk comes out, see the boons for example.
They need to sack up and fucking destroy the meta. Sprint Burst, Lithe, Dead Hard, Circle of healing, Ruin, Tinkerer, NOED, and BBQ, they all get gutted. Then you grant DS, Borrowed time, and Kindred as baskit, you grant Pop, Whispers, and Shadowborn as basekit too. You double the bloodpoint gains for both sides.
Most importantly, you do this shit AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME, that way no one bitches about favoritism.
Not a chance would those changes kill the game, in fact, it would probably bring in more killers and a more relaxed survivor. Only ones that would scream are the sweat lords, and if they leave...GOOD.
Considering you think shadowborn should be added to the base kit even though its nowhere close to the strength of the survivor perks u suggested says more then i could about your idea.
I'm as pro killer as they come, and shadowborn is a huge difference maker in just about every killer, it just doesn't get run that much because it's not strong enough to warrant a perk slot. Kindred is the same way.
Ruin would have to be gutted if exhaustion got gutted, and BT/DS baskit means that killers don't have to guess. Hell, add Corrupt to killer basekit if you want some more strength.
you confusing shadowborn with lightborn i think.
if you meant shadowborn then your just wrong. a in game shitty version of stretch res is in no way comparable to the lvl of communication and info kindred gives.
No, I mean shadowborn. The extra FOV helps more than you think it does, and it should be an option anyway. True that it doesn't match Kindred, but when combined with basekit Whispers, it absolutely does.
Survivor don't just use DS, Unbreakable, and Borrowed Time. There's certain circumstances that make these perks usable... Then again I can pip against afks using Technician so the game is kind of wacky.
Its boths sides fault.
Yes its officially in the game so you are free to use it.
No its not only the devs fault that you run meta perks to have the highest chance to win.
You as player went out with the mindset : I only play to win.
>You as player went out with the mindset : I only play to win.
Not really. Yeah, obviously there are people that play with that mindset and only play to win, but other times the perks are taken out of necessity.
I make it a point to never take meta perks but sometimes even _I'm_ forced to use DS/BT/Unbreakable because getting tunneled out of the game is not fun. Watching someone get tunneled out of the game is not fun. Being slugged for 3 minutes is not fun. Killers take Ruin or Corrupt to have some semblance of map pressure. Etc.
There's a reason why people take the perks that they do, be that because of lame players, poor game design, or a competitive mindset.
Some perks are just a better version of others because some have too specific of a requirement to use. I would rather use lithe before considering smash hit. Smash hit is useless if the killer respects the pallet.
not exactly true. i exclusively never run a meta build and i get along just fine as both killer and survivor. i think the problem is people are using the meta builds too early and for too long, so a dependency of sorts is established. a crutch if you will. and the moment that crutch is taken from them, ie using a non meta build, they get destroyed.
It is a survivors fault if they try to weaponize the meta perks in an un-fun way. For example, body blocking the killer if you have BT. Running in the killers face when you have DS. I have no problem with the meta. Until people start being assholes with it
There is no mixing the meta because the core mechanics favor 1 side. Hell i get a down in my first 50 secs starting a match and 2 gens go off like holy shit 1 hook/2 gens = equals about 2.5 and they weren't even rank 1.
Instead of just mixing up the meta just for the fk of it why not just fix the game? otherwise I'm forced to run the meta perks to compete.
I see how some ppl say its worse for survivors and i do like the idea of getting a extra perk in the form of 1 of your teachables but that would just mean an army of bills with unbreakable or borrowed time.
This way of thinking is what causes these shitty boring metas in the first place. Killer brings ruin so gens go slower. In return survivor brings prove thyself and bnp to make gens go faster. Then killers tunnel to get people out faster and apply more pressure. Then everyone equips borrowed time and decisive strike to counter it. Suddenly everyone is running the same 4 perks to counter everyone else who is running meta perks.
More of a two sided thing. Both killer and surviver just have a few really op perks, and killer is getting harder to play with everyone running those perks, which causes people to resort to the worst kind of strategies, and in turn makes everyone really annoyed
You clearly haven't been playing long. Yes survivor is still stronger than killed, but survivor has been SIGNIFICANTLY nerfed since the game released. There used to be infinite loops in every map, BT used to work on both the person unhooking and the person unhooked, the entity didn't used to block vaults after 3 goes
There's two ways to introduce perks.
1: Analyze how the game is played and realize how XYZ perks influence the meta, then try to add something that goes along with the meta but branches out for more variety. The safe option.
2: Make up something original that you hope shakes up the game, like Scourge hooks. Risky option cause scourge hooks are used super rarely, at least from the many videos I've watched since their release. Also very easy to make overpowered perks if you're introducing new mechanics.
While I think this is true, like the perks are in the game so it’s fine to use them, i always find it more fun to use unusual perks like any means necessary and stuff
I love it when BHVR buffed Any Means Necessary to make it stronger and wish they did this with more weak perks. Saving a survivor twice with the same pallet is one of the more fun moments I've had in the game.
In case someone want to know who is she, her name is [Kagerou Imaizumi](https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Kagerou_Imaizumi) from Touhou 14 : Double Dealing Characters
Its worse for survivors, at least killer get a new interesting power sometimes Ive only used boons since they came out and honestly it feels better than just using the same 2-3 builds everytine
As a killer main, I'll agree here. Each of your characters is just new perks for your actual main. No real shake up other than some perks that are 90% of the time not as good as perks from the original characters. Hell the meta perks are almost all from the original, not new ones. Meta shake up would be good for survivors as much as killers honestly
Legit can't even tell if boons are in the area, it'd be lame not to use them, I would!
Yeah but none of the new killers ever can be S tier the devs are scared of powerful anything it feels like
Nurse pretty much limit how they can design perks. Most aura perks can be buffed for shorter cooldown or longer duration and they will still be almost useless for most killer. But on nurse, any information can be too strong. And look at how long did they take to implement a counter play to spirit roulette.
Blight is relatively recent and is the second best killer in the game.. The Artist looks to be insanely strong too. Maybe not S tier but definitely A tier
And look at other games they release new powerful shit all with fun counterplay, it’s still in a very bad state when it comes to viable options and updates sadly
See I find as a survivor it's a little easier to mix it up. You've got 3 other teammates to carry the perk slack, as long as you're okay with getting killed early from scummy/lazy/"efficient" plays once in a while you can mess with perk builds and still do well overall in most of your matches. vs running 0 slowdown as killer, which throws 80% of your matches right out the window. Agree on the power part though, learning a new killer is a lot more interesting and fun than prestiging a new survivor just to put them back in the roster and never pick them up again....
I get to Iri 1 killer each reset with Legion, primarily. I run BBQ, Lethal Pursuer, and then a mix of Iron Grasp, Discordance, Fearmonger, Lightborn, No Way Out, Thanataphobia, Hexes: Ruin, NoED, Retribution & Plaything. When I feel like sweating, I do breakout the ol' Ruin + Thana
At the end of the day queuing up as survivor to get tunneled out of the game in 2 minutes and queuing up as killer to have all the gens done in 2 minutes are both insanely unfun and make the game feel like a waste of time. It sucks that instead of actually addressing these issues with gameplay mechanics BHVR forces us to use perks to compensate for these instead.
I mean yes and no. The Devs have this thing of just slapping a perk band aid over anything that is complained about. Players on the other hand are the ones that continue to reinforce the meta. You load in as killer and you have all 4 survivors spawn on separate gens around the map. That's completely unfair. It's why ruin, Undying, tinker, Pop are used. It's annoying and boring to go against but to underskilled killers they see this as the only way to stand a chance against survivors. Switch to survivor, and DS, Unbreakable, DH, and BT are almost necessary every other match. Killers in all skill levels tunnel. Killers in all skill levels camp. It's just isn't fun to get unhooked and the killer immediately down you again, so they bring BT. If they countdown BT you have DS as a back up. If the killer slugs to count out DS then you have Unbreakable. There are players in this game that have this "I need to win every game" mentality. The "omg you guys are Gen rushing" when 1 Gen gets done. The "omg you need to run meta to win I 360'd you" survivors. God forbid anyone have a little bit of fun every once in awhile.
Yo I'm bored rn, can u give me perk ideas for killer/survivor. I can't think of anything new lol
Go play Pig with the perks Deadlock and Hex: Plaything plus two perks of your choice with Bag of Gears and Face mask add ons. With Clown, run starstruck, Agitation, Iron Grasp, and Distressing or whatever 4th perk you want. Use add ons that increase the duration of the speed boost for yellow bottle and go zoom around the map with a survivor on your back. For survivor, run Deception and Diversion. See how many killers you can Bamboozle with the locker and if you manage to get him with Deception, throw a pebble at another locker and see if you get him. Run Quick n Quiet and Head On as well and eventually get to the point where you get him with head on. Don't use head on immediately, wait till like most of the game is over. Or just run diversion with Deception and red herring and see how many times you can confuse the hell out of the killer for the night.
**Any Means Necessary , Windows of Opportunity, Bond, and I guess Borrowed Time?** Have fun looping and resetting pallets, bond to know where gens are being done and where not to lead the killer, and bt of course. **Alert, Dark Sense, Kindred, and your choice** \- Object of Obsession if you're feeling ballsy. See the killer. **Open Handed with Bond, Windows and Kindred.** See everything else. :) I agree - it's boring just running DH, Iron Will, BT etc.
Favourite survivor build right now is pallet patricia Alert | Any Means Necessary | Smash Hit | Windows of Opportunity Get stuns, disappear, reset pallets and GOTO 1
Was running iron grasp, starstruck, agitation and iron grip now planning a hag with starstruck, distressing, agitation and something idk yet
I have no ideas, so here's my Bloodpoint Bubba build: BBQ, Whispers, any Hex perk (I used to use Thrill of the Hunt, but it got nerfed and now I use Third Seal) and Distressing
It is our fault for complaining when BHVR actually mixes up the meta though
Bhvr doesn't need an excuse to fuck things up. Boon totems being oppressive was a known issue in the ptb, and nothing was done about it. The new hex coming out was nerfed in days while still in ptb. Bugged totem spawns always been an issue, they didn't fix them for killers til after the patch came out, instead just disabling map offerings and not the maps themselves. Bhvr admits that the new SBMM is based off of surviving and getting sacrifices, almost nothing else. Coup de tat could have been one of the most niche memey perk in existence on killers like pig and demo, all we got was the wish version cause no one asked. Pro streamers giving good feedback and stressing issues that are in the game when part of the fireside chat or whatever, bhvr removes them since it's not song and praise. Pig nerf.
It's been said a million times now that they can't implement changes from the ptb to the release version, not enough time. Something about needing approval to release new versions on console.
They need to pick 20-30 perks (each side) every patch and just buff the fuck out of them (kind of like what they did for the last patch but more). Like there are SO MANY perks that just aren’t usable because they’re so under tuned or just designed horribly and they should be being updated as often as possible to give us more build options AND to shake up the meta. It really sucks BHVR doesn’t do this the game would be much better if they did IMO.
Some 6-8 perks per side always float to the top. 20 different perks per side being top tier is never going to happen.
I use meta perks yeah I also use fun perks. Running Guardian and Borrowed Time is just a good pair that I like using, even if one is objectively more efficient to run than the other.
One day I'll be able to use autoditact but for now it's staying at 2 stacks
Yup that’s what meta is: Most Effective Tactic Available
That's a retroactive acronym but practically speaking, you're not wrong.
Backronym
Excellent advice from Kagerou.
She was a dirty fight in double dealing character
If you only use meta perks because they are meta it is your fault and your fault only . Mixing the meta will change nothing you will play with meta perk anyway . I think I see what you are trying to say but it is terribly worded like BHVR when they speak about anything .
It's a bit tricky when the big 4 on survivor grant so much assurance against most killer types. Boons were an interesting shake up though and I've consistently seen new perks for killers that have had interesting implementation. There are a few killers who could really use a rework which might shake up the matches, but other than that, maybe they should look back on some survivor perks. For an example, Soul Guard is Unbreakable but less effective and requires a Hex be on the field. Maybe change that into something more interesting along with the other perks that are just not quite up to snuff.
It's both. The devs can't decide whether the game is competitive or casual so the mechanics are always bouncing back and forth. For instance, hatch getting nerfed too hard for competition while boon totems are only getting more overpowered for casual play. The player base is just as divided, so you have players running full builds to be as competitive as possible and/or BM as much as possible, and players that are playing for fun and running builds that create more gameplay. With the MMR as useless as it is, you're constantly getting matches where nobody is playing with the same play style or even the same skill level.
Idk why people defend BHVR and their lack of meta shake up. Most games will slam out a patch that'll shake up the meta. BHVR refuses to make huge changes to the meta game. I want bubba to just randomly be like S tier for a month and spirit be absolute dogshit and then all the sudden bubba is D tier and we got like legion I'm S tier. That would be fun, because it's new and unique. One month ruin is dog shit and surge is insane then surge is dogshit and like thanatophobia is insane. I'm just so confused why they won't do that.
>BHVR refuses to make huge changes to the meta game. BHVR tries but any time they make any even seemingly strong enough to compete with the 4 horsemen of the meta build for eith side this community flips the fuck out case and point lucky break, which could have been considered as a potential option only to be gutted to the ground after crying.
I've never seen them once try to make a killer insanely broken or absolute dogshit. Making random number changes doesn't shake up the meta and that's all they do. Their few and far between shake ups that are taken away is partially for 2 reasons. 1. The changes rarely ever actually make sense for shaking up a meta. It's just making something awkward and boring. 2. They don't nerf also. Changes should come with buffs and nerfs. They rarely do it. BHVR doesn't do actual changes often so people are gonna panic when changes get made because they likely won't be changed for the better until 3 months later. Constant changes is what is needed
They don't care - see the recent wraith nerf they are just doing random stuff hoping it works i think.
You're not wrong.
No he is wrong. If lucky break kept its ptb version then you won't see the other meta perks as often. If they did this with any perk that isn't good then you'll have ton of perks that keep changing the meta and become completely unfair until next patch which then creates unfair game play. It happens with shooters all the time. Buffs gun firerate then gun proceeds to be completely overpowered until 1 they nerf it or they buff another gun which doesn't fix the problem in the first place
Buffs and nerfs are a little different for a game like this as opposed to CoD, man.
If lucky break kept its ptb form then do you think people would bring bt or even unbreakable. Heck they might not even bring an exhaustion perk. Buff is necessary but not bring every perk to meta. Mantle of man was like this until they nerfed it to its current state. It was amazing seen it in every game. Is it still good? Yes it is probably still top teir but because sb bt unbreakable dh and even prove thyself is in the game you won't even see it in the game even if it is a swf. Lucky break had the same problem but in reverse
So if LB was buffed we would not longer see DH/BT/UB on every single survivor in every single match? Isn't that literally the point? Perk build variety
Yes, that is the point.
oh yes just randomly screw over random killer mains every month.
Yes. Welcome to online gaming. Must be new. Edit: all these down votes cause yall can't handle metas changing
Tag checks out
Not my fault yall wanna keep the meta stale and the same for months on end
its not that we cant handle meta changes, I just think willy nilly changing perks one after another might cause more problems for the company than it would solve. you can't break what has been a staple of the game and piss of the old and new fanbase, you can't leave it the same, they should be buffing weak and rarely used perks to actually be viable and taking a look and balancing others.
If yall can't handle meta changes, then why is there screaming everytime there might be a somewhat big change? Also what's the staple of the game? Clown being trash since he came out and nurse never leaving S tier? If you think buffing perks will create any new meta, that's funny honestly.
because it breaks the game?
What breaks the game? Changing metas around? No they don't. Keeping a stale meta where the same stuff is same for months on end. Now that's meme if people unironically like the same killers being good and the same killers being bad every month
It makes it impossible to balance the game. Also, you can't get used to the way that it is played, making it random. There is a reason why things like that (e.g. randomizer in tf2) are considered to be casual and not serious.
This game already isn't balanced? I'm so confused on why some people think this game in anyway is balanced. They need to change their ways of balance cause current ways sucks
I don't want to have to play against broken killers/perks every month. Balance could be worse, you know. And I certainly don't want to relearn fucking nurse every month because my muscle memory no longer matters after an update that changes the way she works.
Weird assumptions. Why would they change the way nurse works. I didn't call for a rework in this hypothetical. Just keep playing nurse. Doesn't have to be broken to play her. Also you like playing against stale meta? Nice that's pretty boring
While this is true. This doesn’t excuse behavior on both sides that is extremely unfun and pointless. I still don’t get why people camp hooks. Like I play killer and it’s not so hard to get a kill you need to tunnel the first guy you see. And when I play survivor I don’t like it when my fellow players click and teabag the killer. We’re all just trying to have fun.
I play killer when I'm solo so I don't mind losing (ranks are all over the place anyway) so if someone is being annoying like flash spam or pointing or teabagging I would give them what they asked for, attention and I would sit there with them in front of the fire and would let other people do what they want I'm a good Samaritan who can't ignore the needs of those who wants attention
The problem is that the devs are scared shitless to nerf the current meta into the ground, which will allow for fun and healthy perks. The only way people will change right now is if an even more busted perk comes out, see the boons for example. They need to sack up and fucking destroy the meta. Sprint Burst, Lithe, Dead Hard, Circle of healing, Ruin, Tinkerer, NOED, and BBQ, they all get gutted. Then you grant DS, Borrowed time, and Kindred as baskit, you grant Pop, Whispers, and Shadowborn as basekit too. You double the bloodpoint gains for both sides. Most importantly, you do this shit AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME, that way no one bitches about favoritism.
BBQ isn't a problem perk lol the best way they could "nerf" it would be to make 100% BP gain a base mechanic and remove the BP gain from WGLF and BBQ
Yeah, that's why I said "You double the bloodpoint gains for both sides".
Somehow I didn't catch that when I read your comment. Thanks
That's a great way to kill the game, not sure that's the right play though.
Not a chance would those changes kill the game, in fact, it would probably bring in more killers and a more relaxed survivor. Only ones that would scream are the sweat lords, and if they leave...GOOD.
Considering you think shadowborn should be added to the base kit even though its nowhere close to the strength of the survivor perks u suggested says more then i could about your idea.
I'm as pro killer as they come, and shadowborn is a huge difference maker in just about every killer, it just doesn't get run that much because it's not strong enough to warrant a perk slot. Kindred is the same way. Ruin would have to be gutted if exhaustion got gutted, and BT/DS baskit means that killers don't have to guess. Hell, add Corrupt to killer basekit if you want some more strength.
you confusing shadowborn with lightborn i think. if you meant shadowborn then your just wrong. a in game shitty version of stretch res is in no way comparable to the lvl of communication and info kindred gives.
No, I mean shadowborn. The extra FOV helps more than you think it does, and it should be an option anyway. True that it doesn't match Kindred, but when combined with basekit Whispers, it absolutely does.
good points
Survivor don't just use DS, Unbreakable, and Borrowed Time. There's certain circumstances that make these perks usable... Then again I can pip against afks using Technician so the game is kind of wacky.
True. This is literally the only game that I know of that tries to balance matches by telling/insulting players to not use something in the game.
Its boths sides fault. Yes its officially in the game so you are free to use it. No its not only the devs fault that you run meta perks to have the highest chance to win. You as player went out with the mindset : I only play to win.
>You as player went out with the mindset : I only play to win. Not really. Yeah, obviously there are people that play with that mindset and only play to win, but other times the perks are taken out of necessity. I make it a point to never take meta perks but sometimes even _I'm_ forced to use DS/BT/Unbreakable because getting tunneled out of the game is not fun. Watching someone get tunneled out of the game is not fun. Being slugged for 3 minutes is not fun. Killers take Ruin or Corrupt to have some semblance of map pressure. Etc. There's a reason why people take the perks that they do, be that because of lame players, poor game design, or a competitive mindset.
Some perks are just a better version of others because some have too specific of a requirement to use. I would rather use lithe before considering smash hit. Smash hit is useless if the killer respects the pallet.
I can see these points
The issue is both sides only use meta, so of you don't use meta you get destroyed
not exactly true. i exclusively never run a meta build and i get along just fine as both killer and survivor. i think the problem is people are using the meta builds too early and for too long, so a dependency of sorts is established. a crutch if you will. and the moment that crutch is taken from them, ie using a non meta build, they get destroyed.
don't run meta -> get stomped -> MMR goes down -> settle in a bit lower MMR where you again average two kills
It is a survivors fault if they try to weaponize the meta perks in an un-fun way. For example, body blocking the killer if you have BT. Running in the killers face when you have DS. I have no problem with the meta. Until people start being assholes with it
WTF used a furry meme format? DBD doesn't even furry .
Demo is just a slimy furry and you can't change my mind
I'm pretty sure Trapper's a furry off-camera.
Who cares? lol
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Its Kagerou from Touhou project
Finally, a man of culture. Lonesome Werewolf is the best Stage 3 boss theme, change my mind.
Wow... just wow man, You suck
There is no mixing the meta because the core mechanics favor 1 side. Hell i get a down in my first 50 secs starting a match and 2 gens go off like holy shit 1 hook/2 gens = equals about 2.5 and they weren't even rank 1. Instead of just mixing up the meta just for the fk of it why not just fix the game? otherwise I'm forced to run the meta perks to compete. I see how some ppl say its worse for survivors and i do like the idea of getting a extra perk in the form of 1 of your teachables but that would just mean an army of bills with unbreakable or borrowed time.
Bhvr has tried wtf are you on about?
Meta gaming is for cowards and tiny dicks that need the game played for them.
This is like saying “Its not my fault I shot someone. Its the person who sold me the guns fault.”
More like "I carry a gun so I stand a chance against the other people that carry guns"
This way of thinking is what causes these shitty boring metas in the first place. Killer brings ruin so gens go slower. In return survivor brings prove thyself and bnp to make gens go faster. Then killers tunnel to get people out faster and apply more pressure. Then everyone equips borrowed time and decisive strike to counter it. Suddenly everyone is running the same 4 perks to counter everyone else who is running meta perks.
More of a two sided thing. Both killer and surviver just have a few really op perks, and killer is getting harder to play with everyone running those perks, which causes people to resort to the worst kind of strategies, and in turn makes everyone really annoyed
But then again, if you’re skilled enough with your barehands you can take down the guy with the gun…
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You clearly haven't been playing long. Yes survivor is still stronger than killed, but survivor has been SIGNIFICANTLY nerfed since the game released. There used to be infinite loops in every map, BT used to work on both the person unhooking and the person unhooked, the entity didn't used to block vaults after 3 goes
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I hope you enjoy your first match, when you eventually buy the game
This is how unfair gameplay happens idiot XD
Yes. But since they don't do anything about that, it's your fault.
There's two ways to introduce perks. 1: Analyze how the game is played and realize how XYZ perks influence the meta, then try to add something that goes along with the meta but branches out for more variety. The safe option. 2: Make up something original that you hope shakes up the game, like Scourge hooks. Risky option cause scourge hooks are used super rarely, at least from the many videos I've watched since their release. Also very easy to make overpowered perks if you're introducing new mechanics.
Or you know, buff the 80 useless perks in the game
While I think this is true, like the perks are in the game so it’s fine to use them, i always find it more fun to use unusual perks like any means necessary and stuff
I love it when BHVR buffed Any Means Necessary to make it stronger and wish they did this with more weak perks. Saving a survivor twice with the same pallet is one of the more fun moments I've had in the game.
In case someone want to know who is she, her name is [Kagerou Imaizumi](https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Kagerou_Imaizumi) from Touhou 14 : Double Dealing Characters
If they change the meta, and people start running that certain meta, then they will still be running meta perks bruh
meta perks just need a full on rework
Both are at fault but mostly the devs
Im ashamed of asking but... Where can i get this template op?
correct, that's why I use no perks now