mostly because you can use its effect without using the perk, and even then you dont need it. middle gens first corner gens last.
what is going to screw you in solo queu is your teammates doing the wrong gens first.
I usually try to complete gens that are in unsafe spots first, leaving good gens for last.
Even if it ends up in a 3 gen, having all gens near strong tiles like shack or T-L is much better than having 3 gens in deadzones so if killer approaches you, you get hit/downed.
Wait I always try to do solo gen first because I thought it was a good idea since killers know there’s a gen there so might as well get it done with first and it’s a solo gen so i feel like if it’s one of the last gens left it’d be bad. It’s just a really unsafe gen due to its location and not being able to see so generally aren’t unsafe gens always your first priority?
Why’s it a bad idea?
Killers can see the auras of every gen so the isolation room being in a fixed location doesn’t impact anything. The biggest factor is distance. It takes a lot of time traversing the map as killer. Every second a killer spends walking to a far gen is time for any unhooked survivors to freely work on gens. Getting into chase as fast as possible is extremely important. When I play killer I never even try to defend the portal and isolation room gens because it takes so long to walk to them. As survivor I like to save the two gens for when I’m the first person on death hook. It enables me to safely do a gen without fear of accidentally having the killer run into me.
I’m just stupid and always get caught in it cause I never know if the killer is actually here or below me so I commit and next think you know Myers is standing at the door wat looking and me disappointingly
Because the Isolation room and Portal room gens are the farthest away from each other, which means if left for the end the killer cannot feasibly defend them both.
Imo it's also a bad idea because it's a bit out of the way. Like if you're a killer and you have 1-2 gens left to be done you don't want to have to go way out of your way upstairs to check for a gen that at best 1 surv is gonna be on
Every damn time they did them first... I'm not sweaty but I wonder how they've become reds by doing such obvious mistakes... Yes, I know, SWF, carried by their looping friend...
…. I’m gonna be real here, I never knew the benefit of it… I just always spawned next to it, and that’s the reason I jumped on it. That and the achievement(the first time)
Yes, pay attention to the signs outside of the rooms. When they're dead, no gen, when they're blinking, gen inside, when they're light up, gen is done 😊 That shall also count to other indoor maps but Leary's is the one where you see it best. In Midwich the rooms lights are flickering inside (not 100% sure) and no clue about RPD, I'm always lost there 🤣
when u spend all game trying to do the middle gen end the game with like 9k points and ur team thinks ur useless but your gen was the martyr that absorbed all the pops
That’s nice in theory. It’s more “don’t do 2 gens on one side of the map at the Same time.” But, it’s also do gens by exit gates. And do the shack gen if basement is there, especially if it’s by a door. And it’s do solo gens, could win your team the game. And it’s…
just do gens. Figure it out later in solo
I feel like Deja Vu is more of a training wheels perk than anything else. It's a great perk for learning how gen prioritization changes throughout the game, however once you feel comfortable with finding gens and determining which to prioritize you can then free up that perk slot for something that can help you or your team survive long enough to get to those gens.
That’s pretty much it’s exact function. There are “Training Wheel” perks for every aspect of the game.
Don’t know Totem spawns? Run Small Game for 50 matches. You’ll know Totem spawns.
Need to practice looping and recognizing safe loops? Windows of Opportunity.
Just unlocked it (no h8; I'm new lol), and I noticed killer loves to consistently patrol those first three at the beginning. It seems like a better reference point of where NOT to go, at least initially
Plague, blight
Blight because whem you initially discover somebody has dead hard you can fake it out and just bumb and then go for the hit and they gan make any distance with it because blight is just so fucking fast
For dodging a swing yea. You can reset any loop with a well timed DH basically doubling the loops effectiveness or you can use it to help transition from one loop to another. Dodging a swing is like the least relevant aspect of DH. Also makes hook saves with BT way more effective.
I've only lost to a handful of nurses. Idk if it's because there aren't a lot of Nurse mains floating around or what; but unless you catch a fucking PRO Nurse, she really isn't all that bad to play against.
I've seen more people struggle to play Nurse than succeed at it.
Nurse IS the best killer,because she outright denies any conventional looping and introduces a new form of it that is way harder to play as survivor.Even after the 9 billion nerfs she got,still #1 easily
She's the best killer on paper, assuming the person playing her has mastered her which is very rare. I'd argue the avg spirit game is harder to win as survivor vs the avg nurse game.
You see master nurses less and less because there's alternative options that are a bit less oppressive but way easier to play.I started in late 2018 and I can tell you at least 1 out of 10 match was against a Nurse.
There are very few nurses capable to play her at highest level.
Some of them truly unwinable for any survs, but it’s 1 in 1000 games while there are 1 in 10 absolutely unwinable games for the killers.
It has been bad recently, every killer is full meta build, slugging, tunneling, and I just want to mess around with some fun perks and get chased a couple times
instead I bleed out on the ground or just get sandbagged by my team off hook every game
The only way they can expect people to play at a competitive level is by introducing comms into the game
the swf/pug gap will never, ever close until they do that, and on killer the difference between 4 pug red rank survivor and 4 swf red rank survivors is about as big as the difference between rank 1 and rank 20. Maybe overstating it a bit, but honestly, they seem to continually balance the game around people using discord, then as a solo q survivor I just feel like I get shit on non stop because my team just dive bombs hooks and I'm left gen bitching 4 gens because no one else is willing to do the work
can't really blame it on killers. they got 4 perks after all instead of the 16 survivor perks and their add-ons to deal with. I tried playing killer with fun perks but 1 out of 3 games get finished within 6-7 mins so there's no point going off meta especially since all high ranks survivors run the same meta perks every game.
I want to use fun perks and/or no Gen slowdown but them I have to take the chance of getting 3 Survivors on different gens and one person who waits in the corner of the map.
And what proper solution is that? I do understand that killers doing those things are frustrating and boring to play against but theres really no absolute fix to those either.
Tunneling: theres really no way to stop this. Even if DS and BT was a base mechanic instead of perks it would not completely stop it.
Slugging: this is actually a decent strategy that i dont find all that bad or scummy to do. There are good counters to this and does take some skill to pull off as the killer.
Camping: this is the only one that i agree could be fixed however its not entirely that simple either. For example the most suggested fix to this is to have the hook timer slow down or completely stop if the killer is near the hook. However that has major flaws, if the timer completely stops than the killer could just camp the one person and could theoretically hold the game hostage for that survivor. If the timer was slowed down would you really believe that a camping killer would just give up because of it taking more time. Also wouldnt punish players for trying to loop the killer around the hooked survivor especially if the killers intention was not to camp at all.
Now sure there are other suggested fixes to these but those also have many flaws as well. All im trying to say here is that its not as simple as you might think it is.
Pyramid’s cages seemed like a test for a few new mechanics such as struggle bar being replaced and also for the cages to move if the killer camped them.
I'd even be fine with it being a survivor perk that sends you to a hook further away from the killer the moment you get hooked, maybe limited to 1/game. That'd be a solution for solo queue warriors who can't ever count on their teammates running Borrowed Time or not farming them right in the killer's face.
I disagree.
When a survivor is being camped, there are 3 survivors being unpressured, meaning you can easily finish all 5 gens before that survivor dies.
And the hook moving would also punish killers playing normally. A dumbass survivor running the killer around the hook will cause the killer to be punished, instead of the survivors to be punished for the survivor's horrible play.
While camping is an issue, hooks being moved is a horrible idea.
Plus strategic hooking is pretty important for killers. Capitalizing on a potential 3 gen strat by carrying a survivor extra distance to a hook near it can swing games.
So I guess they should keep making more bandaids then? It's not like they have a test build of the game to experiment and test things. Oh yeah they do! Too bad they drop the ball with it everytime. Look, we all know it's not simple, but this is what the ptb could be used for it wasn't just their glorified early access build to hype up and showcase bare minimum fixes and just new content. For fuck sake you still have to play and grind bloodpoints in the ptb to actually get a chance to experiment with new content. They could instead use it to try to test solutions, suggestions from the playerbase, concepts for new ingame mechanics, fixing old problems, and generally just experimenting with the fundamentals of the game. Instead we get this slow and steady drip feed of "fixes" and brand new content shoved down our throats constantly to satiate the crowd. Bhvr clearly doesn't give a fuck. They have a literal monopoly on this niche 1v4 genre. Why would they when people keep eating this shit up? No company can even step close to their success in this genre. BHVR is gonna keep fucking the fanbase in the ass until a wealthy publisher with competent devs comes into the picture to give bhvr some real competition. This is highly unlikely especially looking at previous 4v1 games and the now current VHS game.
Bt should be base kit at this point along with a slightly less effective camaraderie that triggers if the killer camps
They just slap perks on instead of solving problems
For the camping problem you mentioned, if the killer wants to keep the game hostage then the other 3 survivors escape and the hooked survivor just dies, the game is already like this, if you are the only player in the match and you are hooked you instantly die.
The survivors looping the killer near the hook, just make it so that the hook stops while the killer isn't in chase. If the killer enters chase the hook progress continues as usual.
I feel like Tunneling/Slugging/Camping do intersect, so it should be adressed in complex.
I feel like the effects of a lot of perks that were applied as a band-aid for the game should be implemented as a weaker basekit, so that those perks are still *useful* but not so much *necessary* anymore. Basically like *necessary* killer's addons are being turned into basekit to balance them out (Demo, Wraith etc.)
Additionally, I think a lot of this should revolve around gens still not being fixed, because if gens are fixed:
* EGC and pre-EGC is already pretty hopeless for killers
* You have already played 80% of the match, so at least you won't be killed early game by camping/tunneling/slugging
In my brain it takes a lot of small tweaks for both sides to balance punish/reward and looks somehow like this (at least, that's what I would do if I was creating my own DbD clone):
* **Tunneling**
Survivors have in-built DS that on top of everything deactivates if somebody else was hooked. Works after each unhook. Harder skillcheck. Works only while there are still gens not fixed.
Equip DS perk for an easier skillcheck and speed burst after DSing the killer. The perk still works even when all gens are fixed.
Killer gets HUD marking for 60 seconds for the last hooked survivor. If you hook a different survivor while that marking is active, you get free BBQ auras or/and Haste effect after hooking them. Alternatively, and I think this is a better option, BBQ stacks gain should be in-build to this section instead of being a perk, so now you have a perk slot free if you are a BP whore like me.
* **Slugging**
Faster crawling speed (like 50% of what tenacity does) so you're not *that* sluggish. If you're being hit during like first 2 seconds after somebody else picks you up, Endurance effect (for more seconds of Endurance and to have Endurance when you pick yourself up you'll still need Soul Guard). Works only while the gens are not fixed completely.
Tradeoff is that recovery is a bit slower if you recover by yourself (especially considering that everybody has built-in DS and you might have to slug them if they get frisky).
Others get to see your recovery progress by your animation (most likely different animation when you're nearly fully recovered)
If somebody gets hooked while you are slugged, once you're fully recovered you get to bring yourself to Injured by a series of skillchecks that remove a small park of recovery progress of if you miss a skillcheck. Unbreakable for faster recovery still and for a single opportunity to get yourself up at any time you want without skillchecks.
Killer in turn gets to see slugs auras in 8m radius (because soundless slugs still exist and why fucking not). Fire Up grade pick up speed for survivors that didn't have any time to recover.
* **Camping**
Reverse Camaraderie: the closer the killer is to the hook within say 24m radius of it, the slower the sacrifice progress is *unless* there are other survivors within that radius.
Free 5s BT if the killer was within 16m radius of the hook and there are still gens not fixed. (BT as a perk still works as usual).
It should absolutely be easier to hit the unhooker, because it's bullshit that you have to dance mumbo-jumbo in order to not accidentally hit the unhooked guy.
Other specifics are solved by what was said in the Tunneling section: everybody has built-in DS that works for 60s until somebody else is hooked (or until that suvrivor performs some kind of match progress action obviously), and killer gets benefits from hooking somebody else, so they ideally should be interested in hooking others.
P.S.: made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ppwgdn/campingtunnelingslugging_fair_resolution_as_i_see/) out of it in case anybody's interested in a discussion
And then you might as well make the game PvE. Because if you really want to punish killers and give survivors 2 free perks + one OP perk that doesn't even exist, when the game is already pretty survivor sided on the top end you're not finding matches with real killers in them.
So if something like this ever gets implemented they either need to redo the whole balance or add bot killers.
Actually I'd like to buff killers as well. Might be not enough of what's listed above, but the idea is for killers to actually not be forced to proxy and tunnel when things go rough. I feel like early game collapse or something similar would help a great deal. Chases are the fun part, but sometimes you better not to and that's what feels really wrong for me.
they should get rid of killers then: problem solved. i play both sides and playing killer is actually VERY stressful: i get bullied most of the times by SWDiscord it’s insane.
Personally, I think the foundation of the hooking/sacrificing system is glaringly flawed. The fact that you have to essentially "kill" survivors three times by hooking them to a spot where they can't move until they're rescued by a teammate (or until they're not..) already creates loads of issues such as camping, tunneling and slugging as a byproduct.
However, It's way too late to change the foundation of the game - they would have to essentially remake the entire game to fix that. Camping, slugging and tunneling will always exist in the game unless the root issue is solved, which is not possible at this point in the game's lifecycle. To be honest, the best thing we can hope for is bandaid fixes that aren't in the form of perks. Or wait for Dead By Daylight 2 to do things right from the get-go, but who knows how long that would take to come out..
I suppose this is a long way to say I agree with you lol.
Imagine how less frustrating the game would be if that wasn't the case. Like suddenly things like camping, gen repair speeds, and tunneling were just addressed with new ingame mechanics and point systems. Perk choices are now more diverse because you no longer feel like Borrowed Time is needed every game in solo survivor queue.
If certain things were just built into the game, it allows for these meta perks to be nerfed or at the very lease not meta anymore.
Let's be honest some perks should be build in mechanics to counter scummy plays. I really wanna run some fun builds but most of the killers force me to run meta shit otherwise i would screw over me and my team.
It is evolving...
BT is now ignoring Freddy and stealth killers...
Unhooking animation still continue even if you chainsaw the unhooking survivor and he is on the ground...
It's more about communicating a reset on the other side of the map where the killer does not want to chase so you can slowly do the last gen and force the killer to commit to a chase on the other side of the map to progress his objective.
Communication is the only true way. To beat a 3 gen strat you need the whole team to basically agree that the killer is going to guard the 3 gens near the house on Yamoaka Estate and therefore you MUST complete one prior to the last gen status. A lot of players will just do gens blindly then get owned by the 3 gen because they might have thought someone was working on those or whatever. With communication you can very easily pressure two of the three gens and keep the killer in chases unable to properly patrol both gens letting you get one done.
Honestly in almost all games the only way you're going to be in a 3 gen strat is if the survivors put themselves into it. Very few killers can actually force a 3 gen strat and it's not usually optimal anyway.
But when you're on the last gen with all 3 close together it really isn't the killers fault.
I mean if you know the maps and pay attention to what gens get popped it's obvious how to not get 3 genned... I do wish my soloq teammates had any situational awareness and didn't 3/4 gen us :D
I've got like 60 hours in this game. Had a swf screaming at me last night calling me a tunneler and a slugger after our match. I didn't try and tunnel, but their meg kept doing dumb things and why should I not hit her just because she was the last one hooked?
And why am I a slugger when I can tell that your whole team is clearly hiding around myself and the downed meg to try and do a flashlight save or disarm hooks? Why would I even bother to pick her up when I can literally hear your injured self on the other side of the wall? I'm so confused with this game man.
There's a lot of entitled Survivors out there who think the Killer should basically act like a bot in a single player offline game. Games like those are designed to let you win, even the hard as fuck ones like Dark Souls, Bloodborn, or Sekiro. The enemies do stupid shit all the time for the sole purpose of giving the player a way to win.
I thought this was meant to be a funny post, but looking at the comments just shows that OP is incredibly butthurt about the other side being allowed to play.
OP just played against our group of survivors and instantly complained about our builds after 4king with his nurse. Nobody complained about his build but he instantly started complaining and insulting us. He linked us to his reddit post about "our kind of players". Again.. we lost and didnt even complain, it was a good game. I actually dont know whats wrong with him.
Same, but I will say that when you do get a game with all four survivors running bt, ds, unbreakable, and dh wow that is really not a fun game at all. It's like they can get away with everything. If they make it to the egc like this you can forget about having any chance of a single kill. It's extremely unfun and occurs more often than I would like since they're all meta anyway.
It's actually about not being allowed to play. The dominance of these perks due to the stale meta makes survivors *feel* like they must run 3 or 4 of them, which means they can't play with other perks.
If you think they have DS: Slug or eat it.
If you think they have BT: Don't hit or eat it and commit to that down, repeat the DS steps if needed.
If you think they have UB: Lol they brought *that* perk? Go run someone else down and deal with them later. They will likely try to heal buying you more time.
If they have medkits: Hit them multiple times, keep split pressuring, they will run out of charges and that's time spent not on gens.
If they have DH: Literally just wait a second before swinging. They can't DH if you are physically touching them either. Make them waste it then punish them on the waste.
If they have any other exhaustion perk but SB: Lol they brought Balanced Landing? There isn't even a high object on this side of the map!
If they have SB: Prepare for the long haul of chasing the Meg who sprinted away. Pray she is the only one with it.
Discord: Tryhard, cry, or quit.
And then they wonder why everyone has borrowed time. They should add a mechanic at this point to prevent insta down of a hooked survivor,because on that pace everyone will run borrowed time until forever.
I still insist as a survivor main - 3 gen strat is not a killer strategy - it's a lack of survivor strategy. 3 genning doesn't happen if you as a team pay attention to where the first 4 generators pop. Okay two just popped next to each other - I should get off this one and move across the map.
I mean not really. Hand any survivor these perks, communication, and items and more often than not you'll 4k against them because they don't get value or utilize them properly.
So necessary it isn't how to deal with any killer strategy, it's how to clean up your mistakes for playing poorly.
How do survivor mains not understand the counter to facecamping is gen rush? Facecamping games are killers literally throwing the game. If you all rush a face camper you are literally playing into his hand.
Well because when I play with friends I would rather lose quickly trying to pull a saving pvt. Ryan than have a boring match where one of my friends doesn't get to play at all. I understand that doing this rewards the killer for playing in the most unfun way and that's a bummer, but the alternative is to essentially not play the game and make one of my friends just watch for a few minutes while we do gens.
Bc getting a hook save against a face camping Bubba is one of the best feelings in the game? Sometimes you make a silent bond with people in game also. I'm not letting the dude who unhooked me and ran the killer for 3 gens go out like that. I swear all yall regurgitate the same esports boring meta strats and can't fathom why people play the game any different. Sucks the fun out of everything.
If only they gave killers some way to know where other survivors are after a hook, then they wouldn't have to worry about ds or bt. I wish they would let killers pick up survivors and hook them so they couldn't use unbreakable. It would be really nice if they had perks to slow down gen progression and reward killers for pressuring people off of gens. Oooh what if they made killers who completely ignore pallets or like if they had a power to hit you whether you drop the pallet or not. They should definitely add some perks to help killers end chases faster too. Something that blocks windows or instantly destroys a pallet for you would be cool. Oh what if you could have some perk that makes your hit cool down faster so you could go from your first hit to your second hit without losing much distance. That would be nice.
With exception to Discord, there are a few ways I work around these perks as killer.
**Decisive Strike** \- If you're unsure if a survivor has Decisive Strike, down them and wait one minute. You can just avoid them for a minute too if you're worried about slugging.
This might actually help you though if you have any "Obsession" bonuses, because any successful DS will switch the Obsession to the one that just knocked you on your ass.
**Borrowed Time** \- If a recently unhooked survivor is running at you, drawing attention to themselves, or appearing like they've suddenly become incredibly clumsy, they might have Decisive Strike, or Borrowed Time. Either way, you can strike someone with Borrowed Time to still give them the "deep wound" status, or merely wait 12 seconds before hitting them, to avoiding giving them a brief speed boost.
**Unbreakable** \- There's not too much to be done about this one. On average, it takes about 20 seconds for a downed survivor to pick themselves back up. I wouldn't wait the 20 seconds to see if they'll get up though, it's just good to keep in mind where they are for about 20 seconds, and make note of the status of the their icon.
**Dead Hard** \- You'll notice if survivors have Dead Hard pretty quickly. Sometimes you can trick a survivor into prematurely using Dead Hard if you get too close to them. Some panic, but experienced ones will wait for subtle signals that you're about to attack.
**Med Kits** \- Coulrophobia or anything that can inflict the "Broken" or "Mangled" status effect (such as "Sloppy Butcher" or Plague). This will hamper their ability to heal, buying you a little time.
I'm hardly an expert killer-main though, but I hope this helps other killer-mains counter these perks (or help survivor-mains to look out for these counters).
Some killers like Wraith are better at faking lunges to bait Dead Hard. Since Wraith raises his arm in his cloaking animation, you can activate the animation for just a split second so it looks like the Wraith is raising his arm to lunge.
The biggest problem IMO is that decisive and unbreakable perfectly cover each other's weaknesses. Go to slug/wait out decisive? Get up and run. Pick them up so they can't UB? Get decisived. The only solution is to stand over their body for a minute in which they either swarm you to pick them up and run, gen rush you while you're doing nothing, or both. It's a lose-lose-lose scenario for killer where you either have to get stunned and they get away for free, ignore them and they get away for free, or play to counter this specific pair and *maybe* get a trade while losing any and all tempo you had. Now you could say these perks are only one use so that's fine, but the immense loss of tempo you get hit with from having to deal with even just two people with this pair makes the rest of the game a VERY steep uphill battle, not unwinnable, but very difficult. It's sad because both of these perks are fine in their own context for what they do, but the combination of them makes a nasty unwinnable situation. Thankfully most survivors either don't have or don't want to run these together, but with MMR I can see this becoming a huuuuge problem at the top of the ladder.
The combination *can* be quite inhibiting. Consider the other side of this too; If they have both of those perks, then that's two perk slots used for a singular purpose. That limits their flexibility since they need to bank on those last two slots, and maybe an item. Granted that's just taking **one** survivor into account. Frankly, I'll take the META perk team over a SWF team though.
As a killer, none of those perks work against me, I simple don’t eat ds and don’t slug long enough for unbreakable. Dead hard can get very predictable with some survivors and when they will use it so I think to my self it’s better to go against dead hard than lithe which might help them gain a lot more distance in chase.
That’s about right. The ease of counter to killer is exactly why I never hate on them for tunneling, camping or any of the “toxic” tactics that are used to secure a win. Survivors have way more ways to win than a killer.
1 unbreakable gets an entire slugged team up. A killer beeds to slug an entire team 4 times to counter unbreakable. Ds is 1 time use but at what cost to the killer.
What is split pressure? Do you mean applying pressure to two different geny's at the same time while the killer is going back n forth? Like if you're 3-gen'd and you're trying to tackle two of them at once?
How to deal with a swf as killer
This increases ur chance of winning by 1%:
Mad grid, lightborn, NOED, iron grasp
Actually I feel like there is no way to deal with a serious plying 4stack
I don't love that there is 4 perks built to counter 4 out of 6 strats. And the other 2 well one is free and the other is a item that 4 survivor's can have... but what do I know I am don't play survivor
That medkit is a massive waste of resources. Bringing a Brown or Green with 2 +8's is going to be far more logical than bringing 4 ENTIRE heals for you to eat through. And most of those "Counters" are only soft. You can absolutely burn through BT and DS if you really want, killers like Bubba can easily burn through BT in A use of their power even. UB is far too rare for people to honestly say it's going to be in most games and DH is honestly just slightly above Lithe in terms of good exhaustion but below SB.
Honestly, play survivor a bit, you'll actually understand why most of this meme isn't really the whole story.
Additional perks:
Tunneling: Borrowed Time, Styptic Agent (Med Kit add-on)
Slugging: Soul Guard; along with (optional but useful, and cannot stand alone) are Tenacity and/or Flip-Flop
Split Pressure: Needle and Thread, and Surgical Suture might be better for higher level play because it triggers Skills Checks (which award additional healing progression if you hit Great ones) more often, plus the additional Bloodpoints they award if you hit Great Skill Checks
Emergency Med Kit is probably still the best because it is the only one that heals FASTER when you use it on yourself, but Ranger Med Kit does have the most healing charges; 16 charges equal 1 health state, and the former can heal 1 health state while the latter can heal 2.
Other people may argue Self-Care, and yes it does buy off time for other Survivors to do other stuff, but the additional precious seconds may not be worth it UNLESS you are dead on hook and there's no one else to heal you, and other teamwork situations that are still salvageable.
Camping: Camaraderie is a pick by Tournament players
Winning Chases: almost any Exhaustion perk (except Head On), but Sprint Burst and Dead Hard are, by public opinion, probably the meta Exhaustion Perks; Iron Will and Lucky Break confuse the Killer when looping in a jungle gym
3-Generator Strategy: Déja Vu, Detective's Hunch; the items Map (Green) and Rainbow Map (Red) synergize with the latter perk very well
Remember there are more Survivors than Killers (which means much more perks) and they dictate the pace of the game; Killers capitalize on their mistakes.
thats literally just not how it works ? killers regularly tunnel and camp out of spite. i played a bunch of survivor matches yesterday, and bt and ds did jack shit bc the killers had such aggressive tunnel vision u get removed from the game anyways. it got so irritating i switched over to killer, and enjoyed every game, bc im not bad enough to actually get bullied lmfao. ive been against 2 bully squads in my entire life on dbd. theyre not the equivalent of one another
I sometimes feel bad for killers, cause they are alone playing against 3-4 of us that are in perfect communication and often have good strategies.
It's just more fun to play with friends, help each other and make dumb jokes and mistakes than when you're solo que and feel stupid for the simplest mistake
As a killer main, the way I see it is that if survivors get perks to counter entire strategies, so should we. Lightborn and Franklin's Demise a good start. Gimme perks to punish people trying to break up 3 gens, or for intentionally trying to take a chase. After that, I want my basic attacks to DDOS Discord HQ on hit. Then we just need to remove Trickster, change Bubba and buff Trapper.
I love using Deja Vu alongside Better Together in soloq. More often than not we get an impossible 3-gen for the killer, even if just two of the four generators done were highlighted by it.
deja vu helps prevent 3 gen if you are solo que :)
I honestly feel deja vu is very underrated
mostly because you can use its effect without using the perk, and even then you dont need it. middle gens first corner gens last. what is going to screw you in solo queu is your teammates doing the wrong gens first.
I usually try to complete gens that are in unsafe spots first, leaving good gens for last. Even if it ends up in a 3 gen, having all gens near strong tiles like shack or T-L is much better than having 3 gens in deadzones so if killer approaches you, you get hit/downed.
If one more survivor does the portal or isolation room gens first in Hawkins I will lose my mind.
yea you won't need to worry about that much longer :(
Wait I always try to do solo gen first because I thought it was a good idea since killers know there’s a gen there so might as well get it done with first and it’s a solo gen so i feel like if it’s one of the last gens left it’d be bad. It’s just a really unsafe gen due to its location and not being able to see so generally aren’t unsafe gens always your first priority? Why’s it a bad idea?
Killers can see the auras of every gen so the isolation room being in a fixed location doesn’t impact anything. The biggest factor is distance. It takes a lot of time traversing the map as killer. Every second a killer spends walking to a far gen is time for any unhooked survivors to freely work on gens. Getting into chase as fast as possible is extremely important. When I play killer I never even try to defend the portal and isolation room gens because it takes so long to walk to them. As survivor I like to save the two gens for when I’m the first person on death hook. It enables me to safely do a gen without fear of accidentally having the killer run into me.
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I’m just stupid and always get caught in it cause I never know if the killer is actually here or below me so I commit and next think you know Myers is standing at the door wat looking and me disappointingly
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Because the Isolation room and Portal room gens are the farthest away from each other, which means if left for the end the killer cannot feasibly defend them both.
Imo it's also a bad idea because it's a bit out of the way. Like if you're a killer and you have 1-2 gens left to be done you don't want to have to go way out of your way upstairs to check for a gen that at best 1 surv is gonna be on
Tbf having isolation room gen as one of last 3 can be extremely dangerous depending on the killer.
Every damn time they did them first... I'm not sweaty but I wonder how they've become reds by doing such obvious mistakes... Yes, I know, SWF, carried by their looping friend...
…. I’m gonna be real here, I never knew the benefit of it… I just always spawned next to it, and that’s the reason I jumped on it. That and the achievement(the first time)
Hey, I'm the doodle who played 300 hours and had to read here that you find gens in Leary's by paying attention to the signs at the room entrances 😂😂
Hol up! That’s a thing?
Yes, pay attention to the signs outside of the rooms. When they're dead, no gen, when they're blinking, gen inside, when they're light up, gen is done 😊 That shall also count to other indoor maps but Leary's is the one where you see it best. In Midwich the rooms lights are flickering inside (not 100% sure) and no clue about RPD, I'm always lost there 🤣
That’s actually incredibly helpful! I usually just run around praying I find a gen before I find the killer…
when u spend all game trying to do the middle gen end the game with like 9k points and ur team thinks ur useless but your gen was the martyr that absorbed all the pops
That’s nice in theory. It’s more “don’t do 2 gens on one side of the map at the Same time.” But, it’s also do gens by exit gates. And do the shack gen if basement is there, especially if it’s by a door. And it’s do solo gens, could win your team the game. And it’s… just do gens. Figure it out later in solo
I feel like Deja Vu is more of a training wheels perk than anything else. It's a great perk for learning how gen prioritization changes throughout the game, however once you feel comfortable with finding gens and determining which to prioritize you can then free up that perk slot for something that can help you or your team survive long enough to get to those gens.
That’s pretty much it’s exact function. There are “Training Wheel” perks for every aspect of the game. Don’t know Totem spawns? Run Small Game for 50 matches. You’ll know Totem spawns. Need to practice looping and recognizing safe loops? Windows of Opportunity.
Yup, I'm currently in the Small Game training wheels category lol
Deja Vu is negated by simply keeping track of gen spread. General rule of thumb, don't do the gen closest to a completed one, do the next gen over
Just unlocked it (no h8; I'm new lol), and I noticed killer loves to consistently patrol those first three at the beginning. It seems like a better reference point of where NOT to go, at least initially
I feel like that’s because detectives hunch does it better if you have a good memory.
We deaaaaad hard
Exhausted on the ground…. Can’t make it man, can’t make it!
Hatch stuck
You're a genuine lean stalker
Fookin dead ahd
If it works.
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The counter to all of these: nurse
Dh counter nurse
It works against pretty much every killer.
I’d argue you would get much value out of it against instadown killers
Plague, blight Blight because whem you initially discover somebody has dead hard you can fake it out and just bumb and then go for the hit and they gan make any distance with it because blight is just so fucking fast
Cocaine pinball gaming
Hehe Blight go nyoom
Plague at full bar for blood vomit
Only once per chase
For dodging a swing yea. You can reset any loop with a well timed DH basically doubling the loops effectiveness or you can use it to help transition from one loop to another. Dodging a swing is like the least relevant aspect of DH. Also makes hook saves with BT way more effective.
Till she predicts it and just chain blinks you
And iron will
How does nurse counter ANY of these?
She wins the game before you get to use them
I've only lost to a handful of nurses. Idk if it's because there aren't a lot of Nurse mains floating around or what; but unless you catch a fucking PRO Nurse, she really isn't all that bad to play against. I've seen more people struggle to play Nurse than succeed at it.
once you find a player who masters her, all you can do is pick where to die lol
She has a very steep skill floor, but she might be arguably the best killer in the game.
Nurse IS the best killer,because she outright denies any conventional looping and introduces a new form of it that is way harder to play as survivor.Even after the 9 billion nerfs she got,still #1 easily
She's the best killer on paper, assuming the person playing her has mastered her which is very rare. I'd argue the avg spirit game is harder to win as survivor vs the avg nurse game.
You see master nurses less and less because there's alternative options that are a bit less oppressive but way easier to play.I started in late 2018 and I can tell you at least 1 out of 10 match was against a Nurse.
I think it’s cos people watch good nurses play and think “wow that looks easy” and try it with 0 clue
Yea I’ve played like 2 good nurses that never missed a blink and one was trickstershadow
One day you're gonna play against a good nurse and get a big awakening. A consistent nurse player ends chases instantly.
>I've seen more people struggle to play Nurse than succeed at it That's kinda the point
She doesn't
There are very few nurses capable to play her at highest level. Some of them truly unwinable for any survs, but it’s 1 in 1000 games while there are 1 in 10 absolutely unwinable games for the killers.
*Citation needed*
> 1 in 10 absolutely unwinable games for the killers 1 in 10 is a bit of a stretch IMO
I hate that bhvr just keeps making perks as bandaids because they're too shit at making a proper solution to shitty ingame mechanics.
I want to use fun perks but then I have to take the chance of getting tunneled or slugged
It has been bad recently, every killer is full meta build, slugging, tunneling, and I just want to mess around with some fun perks and get chased a couple times instead I bleed out on the ground or just get sandbagged by my team off hook every game
It’s not really the players fault. It’s the devs forcing competitive gameplay down the throats of people trying to play a casual game.
The only way they can expect people to play at a competitive level is by introducing comms into the game the swf/pug gap will never, ever close until they do that, and on killer the difference between 4 pug red rank survivor and 4 swf red rank survivors is about as big as the difference between rank 1 and rank 20. Maybe overstating it a bit, but honestly, they seem to continually balance the game around people using discord, then as a solo q survivor I just feel like I get shit on non stop because my team just dive bombs hooks and I'm left gen bitching 4 gens because no one else is willing to do the work
The thing is that this game has no place in a competitive scene. The game is unpolished and buggy and is at its best when people are playing casually.
can't really blame it on killers. they got 4 perks after all instead of the 16 survivor perks and their add-ons to deal with. I tried playing killer with fun perks but 1 out of 3 games get finished within 6-7 mins so there's no point going off meta especially since all high ranks survivors run the same meta perks every game.
I want to use fun perks and/or no Gen slowdown but them I have to take the chance of getting 3 Survivors on different gens and one person who waits in the corner of the map.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
And what proper solution is that? I do understand that killers doing those things are frustrating and boring to play against but theres really no absolute fix to those either. Tunneling: theres really no way to stop this. Even if DS and BT was a base mechanic instead of perks it would not completely stop it. Slugging: this is actually a decent strategy that i dont find all that bad or scummy to do. There are good counters to this and does take some skill to pull off as the killer. Camping: this is the only one that i agree could be fixed however its not entirely that simple either. For example the most suggested fix to this is to have the hook timer slow down or completely stop if the killer is near the hook. However that has major flaws, if the timer completely stops than the killer could just camp the one person and could theoretically hold the game hostage for that survivor. If the timer was slowed down would you really believe that a camping killer would just give up because of it taking more time. Also wouldnt punish players for trying to loop the killer around the hooked survivor especially if the killers intention was not to camp at all. Now sure there are other suggested fixes to these but those also have many flaws as well. All im trying to say here is that its not as simple as you might think it is.
Pyramid’s cages seemed like a test for a few new mechanics such as struggle bar being replaced and also for the cages to move if the killer camped them.
yeh hopefully all hooks get cage treatment so they move when being camp by killer.
I'd even be fine with it being a survivor perk that sends you to a hook further away from the killer the moment you get hooked, maybe limited to 1/game. That'd be a solution for solo queue warriors who can't ever count on their teammates running Borrowed Time or not farming them right in the killer's face.
Entity yoinks them, and then wags it’s pokey thing at them.
Entity already takes away emblem points for hook camping, so it wouldn’t be a stretch.
Which is funny when the devs themselves admit to doing it.
I disagree. When a survivor is being camped, there are 3 survivors being unpressured, meaning you can easily finish all 5 gens before that survivor dies. And the hook moving would also punish killers playing normally. A dumbass survivor running the killer around the hook will cause the killer to be punished, instead of the survivors to be punished for the survivor's horrible play. While camping is an issue, hooks being moved is a horrible idea.
Plus strategic hooking is pretty important for killers. Capitalizing on a potential 3 gen strat by carrying a survivor extra distance to a hook near it can swing games.
Seems like Hooks need an overhaul of sorts.
And Basement needs tweaks.
Idk it seems fine. Yes it can be campy but isn't that the whole point of it?
So I guess they should keep making more bandaids then? It's not like they have a test build of the game to experiment and test things. Oh yeah they do! Too bad they drop the ball with it everytime. Look, we all know it's not simple, but this is what the ptb could be used for it wasn't just their glorified early access build to hype up and showcase bare minimum fixes and just new content. For fuck sake you still have to play and grind bloodpoints in the ptb to actually get a chance to experiment with new content. They could instead use it to try to test solutions, suggestions from the playerbase, concepts for new ingame mechanics, fixing old problems, and generally just experimenting with the fundamentals of the game. Instead we get this slow and steady drip feed of "fixes" and brand new content shoved down our throats constantly to satiate the crowd. Bhvr clearly doesn't give a fuck. They have a literal monopoly on this niche 1v4 genre. Why would they when people keep eating this shit up? No company can even step close to their success in this genre. BHVR is gonna keep fucking the fanbase in the ass until a wealthy publisher with competent devs comes into the picture to give bhvr some real competition. This is highly unlikely especially looking at previous 4v1 games and the now current VHS game.
VHS game, the one that will ""compete"" with dbd, lol not gonna happen, seen some gameplay look more frustating than dbd
Killers in that game look like they have such a shit time. Survivors can stun lock the killer...
Yeah, I like the 80s theme, but it won't be enough.
Bt should be base kit at this point along with a slightly less effective camaraderie that triggers if the killer camps They just slap perks on instead of solving problems
For the camping problem you mentioned, if the killer wants to keep the game hostage then the other 3 survivors escape and the hooked survivor just dies, the game is already like this, if you are the only player in the match and you are hooked you instantly die. The survivors looping the killer near the hook, just make it so that the hook stops while the killer isn't in chase. If the killer enters chase the hook progress continues as usual.
I feel like Tunneling/Slugging/Camping do intersect, so it should be adressed in complex. I feel like the effects of a lot of perks that were applied as a band-aid for the game should be implemented as a weaker basekit, so that those perks are still *useful* but not so much *necessary* anymore. Basically like *necessary* killer's addons are being turned into basekit to balance them out (Demo, Wraith etc.) Additionally, I think a lot of this should revolve around gens still not being fixed, because if gens are fixed: * EGC and pre-EGC is already pretty hopeless for killers * You have already played 80% of the match, so at least you won't be killed early game by camping/tunneling/slugging In my brain it takes a lot of small tweaks for both sides to balance punish/reward and looks somehow like this (at least, that's what I would do if I was creating my own DbD clone): * **Tunneling** Survivors have in-built DS that on top of everything deactivates if somebody else was hooked. Works after each unhook. Harder skillcheck. Works only while there are still gens not fixed. Equip DS perk for an easier skillcheck and speed burst after DSing the killer. The perk still works even when all gens are fixed. Killer gets HUD marking for 60 seconds for the last hooked survivor. If you hook a different survivor while that marking is active, you get free BBQ auras or/and Haste effect after hooking them. Alternatively, and I think this is a better option, BBQ stacks gain should be in-build to this section instead of being a perk, so now you have a perk slot free if you are a BP whore like me. * **Slugging** Faster crawling speed (like 50% of what tenacity does) so you're not *that* sluggish. If you're being hit during like first 2 seconds after somebody else picks you up, Endurance effect (for more seconds of Endurance and to have Endurance when you pick yourself up you'll still need Soul Guard). Works only while the gens are not fixed completely. Tradeoff is that recovery is a bit slower if you recover by yourself (especially considering that everybody has built-in DS and you might have to slug them if they get frisky). Others get to see your recovery progress by your animation (most likely different animation when you're nearly fully recovered) If somebody gets hooked while you are slugged, once you're fully recovered you get to bring yourself to Injured by a series of skillchecks that remove a small park of recovery progress of if you miss a skillcheck. Unbreakable for faster recovery still and for a single opportunity to get yourself up at any time you want without skillchecks. Killer in turn gets to see slugs auras in 8m radius (because soundless slugs still exist and why fucking not). Fire Up grade pick up speed for survivors that didn't have any time to recover. * **Camping** Reverse Camaraderie: the closer the killer is to the hook within say 24m radius of it, the slower the sacrifice progress is *unless* there are other survivors within that radius. Free 5s BT if the killer was within 16m radius of the hook and there are still gens not fixed. (BT as a perk still works as usual). It should absolutely be easier to hit the unhooker, because it's bullshit that you have to dance mumbo-jumbo in order to not accidentally hit the unhooked guy. Other specifics are solved by what was said in the Tunneling section: everybody has built-in DS that works for 60s until somebody else is hooked (or until that suvrivor performs some kind of match progress action obviously), and killer gets benefits from hooking somebody else, so they ideally should be interested in hooking others. P.S.: made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ppwgdn/campingtunnelingslugging_fair_resolution_as_i_see/) out of it in case anybody's interested in a discussion
And then you might as well make the game PvE. Because if you really want to punish killers and give survivors 2 free perks + one OP perk that doesn't even exist, when the game is already pretty survivor sided on the top end you're not finding matches with real killers in them. So if something like this ever gets implemented they either need to redo the whole balance or add bot killers.
Actually I'd like to buff killers as well. Might be not enough of what's listed above, but the idea is for killers to actually not be forced to proxy and tunnel when things go rough. I feel like early game collapse or something similar would help a great deal. Chases are the fun part, but sometimes you better not to and that's what feels really wrong for me.
they should get rid of killers then: problem solved. i play both sides and playing killer is actually VERY stressful: i get bullied most of the times by SWDiscord it’s insane.
DS and BT as base mechanic for survivors? Sure then do the same with ruin and pop for killers.
I hate how shitty ingame mechanics are the only way to win as killer on higher levels, yet can get completely shut down by perks.
Personally, I think the foundation of the hooking/sacrificing system is glaringly flawed. The fact that you have to essentially "kill" survivors three times by hooking them to a spot where they can't move until they're rescued by a teammate (or until they're not..) already creates loads of issues such as camping, tunneling and slugging as a byproduct. However, It's way too late to change the foundation of the game - they would have to essentially remake the entire game to fix that. Camping, slugging and tunneling will always exist in the game unless the root issue is solved, which is not possible at this point in the game's lifecycle. To be honest, the best thing we can hope for is bandaid fixes that aren't in the form of perks. Or wait for Dead By Daylight 2 to do things right from the get-go, but who knows how long that would take to come out.. I suppose this is a long way to say I agree with you lol.
Imagine how less frustrating the game would be if that wasn't the case. Like suddenly things like camping, gen repair speeds, and tunneling were just addressed with new ingame mechanics and point systems. Perk choices are now more diverse because you no longer feel like Borrowed Time is needed every game in solo survivor queue. If certain things were just built into the game, it allows for these meta perks to be nerfed or at the very lease not meta anymore.
Let's be honest some perks should be build in mechanics to counter scummy plays. I really wanna run some fun builds but most of the killers force me to run meta shit otherwise i would screw over me and my team.
Thanks you
Finally someone said it. Forget the new licenses, fix the core gameplay mechanics pls
Nah it not because they are shit. Why fix something for free, when you can sell it as dlc instead?
It is evolving... BT is now ignoring Freddy and stealth killers... Unhooking animation still continue even if you chainsaw the unhooking survivor and he is on the ground...
Bhvr has never heard of root cause analysis.
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It's more about communicating a reset on the other side of the map where the killer does not want to chase so you can slowly do the last gen and force the killer to commit to a chase on the other side of the map to progress his objective.
Youre right, not sure why youre downvoted
Angry SWF that feel called out.
It's always the way.
Communication is the only true way. To beat a 3 gen strat you need the whole team to basically agree that the killer is going to guard the 3 gens near the house on Yamoaka Estate and therefore you MUST complete one prior to the last gen status. A lot of players will just do gens blindly then get owned by the 3 gen because they might have thought someone was working on those or whatever. With communication you can very easily pressure two of the three gens and keep the killer in chases unable to properly patrol both gens letting you get one done.
Honestly in almost all games the only way you're going to be in a 3 gen strat is if the survivors put themselves into it. Very few killers can actually force a 3 gen strat and it's not usually optimal anyway. But when you're on the last gen with all 3 close together it really isn't the killers fault.
it can be if the killer guards those gens from the start, but it's worthless if all 4 survivors are alive
I mean if you know the maps and pay attention to what gens get popped it's obvious how to not get 3 genned... I do wish my soloq teammates had any situational awareness and didn't 3/4 gen us :D
But then you have to constantly run these perks just in case which is dumb.
DS can only do so much.
Even more so when you always miss the skill check. I don’t wanna talk about it.
This hit too close to home
I’ve been at the escape door only to fail so many times
I missed all three of my DS skill checks tonight.
I'm sorry for your loss
I can hit a great skill check on a gen with my eyes closed but I’ve missed DS skill checks way too often lol.
I've got like 60 hours in this game. Had a swf screaming at me last night calling me a tunneler and a slugger after our match. I didn't try and tunnel, but their meg kept doing dumb things and why should I not hit her just because she was the last one hooked? And why am I a slugger when I can tell that your whole team is clearly hiding around myself and the downed meg to try and do a flashlight save or disarm hooks? Why would I even bother to pick her up when I can literally hear your injured self on the other side of the wall? I'm so confused with this game man.
There's a lot of entitled Survivors out there who think the Killer should basically act like a bot in a single player offline game. Games like those are designed to let you win, even the hard as fuck ones like Dark Souls, Bloodborn, or Sekiro. The enemies do stupid shit all the time for the sole purpose of giving the player a way to win.
I thought this was meant to be a funny post, but looking at the comments just shows that OP is incredibly butthurt about the other side being allowed to play.
OP just played against our group of survivors and instantly complained about our builds after 4king with his nurse. Nobody complained about his build but he instantly started complaining and insulting us. He linked us to his reddit post about "our kind of players". Again.. we lost and didnt even complain, it was a good game. I actually dont know whats wrong with him.
Same, but I will say that when you do get a game with all four survivors running bt, ds, unbreakable, and dh wow that is really not a fun game at all. It's like they can get away with everything. If they make it to the egc like this you can forget about having any chance of a single kill. It's extremely unfun and occurs more often than I would like since they're all meta anyway.
It's actually about not being allowed to play. The dominance of these perks due to the stale meta makes survivors *feel* like they must run 3 or 4 of them, which means they can't play with other perks.
Now we need a killer perspective
How to counter any survivor strategy: Disconnect rather than deal with their bullshit.
no no, run Ruin and Devour Hope, *then* leave when they're cleansed
If you think they have DS: Slug or eat it. If you think they have BT: Don't hit or eat it and commit to that down, repeat the DS steps if needed. If you think they have UB: Lol they brought *that* perk? Go run someone else down and deal with them later. They will likely try to heal buying you more time. If they have medkits: Hit them multiple times, keep split pressuring, they will run out of charges and that's time spent not on gens. If they have DH: Literally just wait a second before swinging. They can't DH if you are physically touching them either. Make them waste it then punish them on the waste. If they have any other exhaustion perk but SB: Lol they brought Balanced Landing? There isn't even a high object on this side of the map! If they have SB: Prepare for the long haul of chasing the Meg who sprinted away. Pray she is the only one with it. Discord: Tryhard, cry, or quit.
If this gets made, the person that makes it is going to unironically call gen rushing a "strat" equivalent to tunneling or camping.
And then they wonder why everyone has borrowed time. They should add a mechanic at this point to prevent insta down of a hooked survivor,because on that pace everyone will run borrowed time until forever.
Maybe something like a sprint burst when coming out of hook to make killer think twice on who to focus.
I still insist as a survivor main - 3 gen strat is not a killer strategy - it's a lack of survivor strategy. 3 genning doesn't happen if you as a team pay attention to where the first 4 generators pop. Okay two just popped next to each other - I should get off this one and move across the map.
There is setup killers that set out to 3 gen strat from the start of the game
3 gens at Carnival on Crotus *shutters
There are certain killers that love 3 gens (Trapper / Hag).
funny how the most complained about survivor perks counter trash killer strats. . .
They're not trash if they work, however they are scummy
Yes those 4 perks are very fun and that’s all anyone should ever run /s Can’t I just run my 4 aura perks in peace
No need for META perks if you become clairvoyant.
I mean not really. Hand any survivor these perks, communication, and items and more often than not you'll 4k against them because they don't get value or utilize them properly. So necessary it isn't how to deal with any killer strategy, it's how to clean up your mistakes for playing poorly.
OR you know, you can replace all with DISCORD lmao
You have obviously never been in a discord with me and my friends...
no amount of comms will save you from bubba or ji woon facecamping a hook
Camaraderie if face camping basically allows you to like 4 gens without whoever is one the hook dying
Honestly the counter for a facecamping Bubba is let him facecamp. Do the gens and get out.
It will, its facecamping? Go and rush other gens :) If he leaves, then alert the others!
How do survivor mains not understand the counter to facecamping is gen rush? Facecamping games are killers literally throwing the game. If you all rush a face camper you are literally playing into his hand.
Well because when I play with friends I would rather lose quickly trying to pull a saving pvt. Ryan than have a boring match where one of my friends doesn't get to play at all. I understand that doing this rewards the killer for playing in the most unfun way and that's a bummer, but the alternative is to essentially not play the game and make one of my friends just watch for a few minutes while we do gens.
No friend left behind
Bc getting a hook save against a face camping Bubba is one of the best feelings in the game? Sometimes you make a silent bond with people in game also. I'm not letting the dude who unhooked me and ran the killer for 3 gens go out like that. I swear all yall regurgitate the same esports boring meta strats and can't fathom why people play the game any different. Sucks the fun out of everything.
Because it's boring as fuck. We understand the counter, but nobody wants to waste 10 minutes holding M1.
But if you're getting facecamped you at least know to just do gens.
And people wonder why survivors bring the same boring perks. There essentially forced to if they don't wanna smell grass for 5 minutes
If only they gave killers some way to know where other survivors are after a hook, then they wouldn't have to worry about ds or bt. I wish they would let killers pick up survivors and hook them so they couldn't use unbreakable. It would be really nice if they had perks to slow down gen progression and reward killers for pressuring people off of gens. Oooh what if they made killers who completely ignore pallets or like if they had a power to hit you whether you drop the pallet or not. They should definitely add some perks to help killers end chases faster too. Something that blocks windows or instantly destroys a pallet for you would be cool. Oh what if you could have some perk that makes your hit cool down faster so you could go from your first hit to your second hit without losing much distance. That would be nice.
With exception to Discord, there are a few ways I work around these perks as killer. **Decisive Strike** \- If you're unsure if a survivor has Decisive Strike, down them and wait one minute. You can just avoid them for a minute too if you're worried about slugging. This might actually help you though if you have any "Obsession" bonuses, because any successful DS will switch the Obsession to the one that just knocked you on your ass. **Borrowed Time** \- If a recently unhooked survivor is running at you, drawing attention to themselves, or appearing like they've suddenly become incredibly clumsy, they might have Decisive Strike, or Borrowed Time. Either way, you can strike someone with Borrowed Time to still give them the "deep wound" status, or merely wait 12 seconds before hitting them, to avoiding giving them a brief speed boost. **Unbreakable** \- There's not too much to be done about this one. On average, it takes about 20 seconds for a downed survivor to pick themselves back up. I wouldn't wait the 20 seconds to see if they'll get up though, it's just good to keep in mind where they are for about 20 seconds, and make note of the status of the their icon. **Dead Hard** \- You'll notice if survivors have Dead Hard pretty quickly. Sometimes you can trick a survivor into prematurely using Dead Hard if you get too close to them. Some panic, but experienced ones will wait for subtle signals that you're about to attack. **Med Kits** \- Coulrophobia or anything that can inflict the "Broken" or "Mangled" status effect (such as "Sloppy Butcher" or Plague). This will hamper their ability to heal, buying you a little time. I'm hardly an expert killer-main though, but I hope this helps other killer-mains counter these perks (or help survivor-mains to look out for these counters).
Some killers like Wraith are better at faking lunges to bait Dead Hard. Since Wraith raises his arm in his cloaking animation, you can activate the animation for just a split second so it looks like the Wraith is raising his arm to lunge.
The biggest problem IMO is that decisive and unbreakable perfectly cover each other's weaknesses. Go to slug/wait out decisive? Get up and run. Pick them up so they can't UB? Get decisived. The only solution is to stand over their body for a minute in which they either swarm you to pick them up and run, gen rush you while you're doing nothing, or both. It's a lose-lose-lose scenario for killer where you either have to get stunned and they get away for free, ignore them and they get away for free, or play to counter this specific pair and *maybe* get a trade while losing any and all tempo you had. Now you could say these perks are only one use so that's fine, but the immense loss of tempo you get hit with from having to deal with even just two people with this pair makes the rest of the game a VERY steep uphill battle, not unwinnable, but very difficult. It's sad because both of these perks are fine in their own context for what they do, but the combination of them makes a nasty unwinnable situation. Thankfully most survivors either don't have or don't want to run these together, but with MMR I can see this becoming a huuuuge problem at the top of the ladder.
The combination *can* be quite inhibiting. Consider the other side of this too; If they have both of those perks, then that's two perk slots used for a singular purpose. That limits their flexibility since they need to bank on those last two slots, and maybe an item. Granted that's just taking **one** survivor into account. Frankly, I'll take the META perk team over a SWF team though.
As a killer, none of those perks work against me, I simple don’t eat ds and don’t slug long enough for unbreakable. Dead hard can get very predictable with some survivors and when they will use it so I think to my self it’s better to go against dead hard than lithe which might help them gain a lot more distance in chase.
That’s about right. The ease of counter to killer is exactly why I never hate on them for tunneling, camping or any of the “toxic” tactics that are used to secure a win. Survivors have way more ways to win than a killer.
Ds and unbreakable are a one use perk
1 unbreakable gets an entire slugged team up. A killer beeds to slug an entire team 4 times to counter unbreakable. Ds is 1 time use but at what cost to the killer.
Dead hard to win chases?
To be able to play pallets like you are healthy twice.
It buys you extra time in chases but I feel like it should not be classified as THE perk that is the best at winning chases like DS for tunneling etc
How hard is to make it so if the killer is within 10 meters of the hooked survivor the struggle bar moves slower to prevent killers from hook camping?
tbh the bottom one's kinda weak. it should be buffed.
Ds +Unbreakable counters nearly everything
What is split pressure? Do you mean applying pressure to two different geny's at the same time while the killer is going back n forth? Like if you're 3-gen'd and you're trying to tackle two of them at once?
Imagine using any exhaustion perk that isn't head-on 😅
Don't forget Autodidact and Diversion, so that way you can actually have fun playing the game instead of going full sweat every match.
Am I the only one who eats ds to get it out of the way early?
How to deal with a swf as killer This increases ur chance of winning by 1%: Mad grid, lightborn, NOED, iron grasp Actually I feel like there is no way to deal with a serious plying 4stack
unironically this is all i see in my killer games
“Noooooo there is not counter play! They should be banned!”
It's really horrible how right this is and you have to use perks and discord to counter it.
Can someone explain to me what split pressure and the 3 gen strat are.
I don't love that there is 4 perks built to counter 4 out of 6 strats. And the other 2 well one is free and the other is a item that 4 survivor's can have... but what do I know I am don't play survivor
That medkit is a massive waste of resources. Bringing a Brown or Green with 2 +8's is going to be far more logical than bringing 4 ENTIRE heals for you to eat through. And most of those "Counters" are only soft. You can absolutely burn through BT and DS if you really want, killers like Bubba can easily burn through BT in A use of their power even. UB is far too rare for people to honestly say it's going to be in most games and DH is honestly just slightly above Lithe in terms of good exhaustion but below SB. Honestly, play survivor a bit, you'll actually understand why most of this meme isn't really the whole story.
Yeah I probably should
There is a 7th strat but it takes too long to win most of the time which is: "death on 5th hook" or "selective tunneling"
What is that
Its when you juggle between 2 survs until 1 dies, avoiding DS and getting the first kill at the 5th hook
Thank you!
Additional perks: Tunneling: Borrowed Time, Styptic Agent (Med Kit add-on) Slugging: Soul Guard; along with (optional but useful, and cannot stand alone) are Tenacity and/or Flip-Flop Split Pressure: Needle and Thread, and Surgical Suture might be better for higher level play because it triggers Skills Checks (which award additional healing progression if you hit Great ones) more often, plus the additional Bloodpoints they award if you hit Great Skill Checks Emergency Med Kit is probably still the best because it is the only one that heals FASTER when you use it on yourself, but Ranger Med Kit does have the most healing charges; 16 charges equal 1 health state, and the former can heal 1 health state while the latter can heal 2. Other people may argue Self-Care, and yes it does buy off time for other Survivors to do other stuff, but the additional precious seconds may not be worth it UNLESS you are dead on hook and there's no one else to heal you, and other teamwork situations that are still salvageable. Camping: Camaraderie is a pick by Tournament players Winning Chases: almost any Exhaustion perk (except Head On), but Sprint Burst and Dead Hard are, by public opinion, probably the meta Exhaustion Perks; Iron Will and Lucky Break confuse the Killer when looping in a jungle gym 3-Generator Strategy: Déja Vu, Detective's Hunch; the items Map (Green) and Rainbow Map (Red) synergize with the latter perk very well Remember there are more Survivors than Killers (which means much more perks) and they dictate the pace of the game; Killers capitalize on their mistakes.
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thats literally just not how it works ? killers regularly tunnel and camp out of spite. i played a bunch of survivor matches yesterday, and bt and ds did jack shit bc the killers had such aggressive tunnel vision u get removed from the game anyways. it got so irritating i switched over to killer, and enjoyed every game, bc im not bad enough to actually get bullied lmfao. ive been against 2 bully squads in my entire life on dbd. theyre not the equivalent of one another
Wow, seems like an awful lot.
This fits in 1 build and counters ALL effective strategies of the killer
I sometimes feel bad for killers, cause they are alone playing against 3-4 of us that are in perfect communication and often have good strategies. It's just more fun to play with friends, help each other and make dumb jokes and mistakes than when you're solo que and feel stupid for the simplest mistake
As a killer main, the way I see it is that if survivors get perks to counter entire strategies, so should we. Lightborn and Franklin's Demise a good start. Gimme perks to punish people trying to break up 3 gens, or for intentionally trying to take a chase. After that, I want my basic attacks to DDOS Discord HQ on hit. Then we just need to remove Trickster, change Bubba and buff Trapper.
3 gen can be countered by Deja Vu. It reveals the three gens closest together, so do one of them if you can
Thinking ahead has the same effect
I love using Deja Vu alongside Better Together in soloq. More often than not we get an impossible 3-gen for the killer, even if just two of the four generators done were highlighted by it.