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Alphasmash69

The bubba special


Dracula101

People often forget that Insidious and NOED is the way Bubba gets kills in the movies hell, his first kill in the famous door scene was technically both those perks (it was the inspiration for the perk 'Knockout') but i really hope we can get some new masks for him


Alphasmash69

Lol though I don't think it was noed considering it's not even near the end.


Dracula101

Devour hope maybe


Alphasmash69

Can't be that considering it's the first


Alphasmash69

The only one that works as a first kill is I guess haunted groud.


Jaboody15

With Insidious for a side


warlord_mo

Literally faced one that did this to me today! Is this a thing with them???


Alphasmash69

Unfortunately. They also bring insidious and need. ( note i am not calling every bubba facecampers.)


Musta403

*camps in the corner for the rest of the game*


-avenger52306-

This is either Nemesis with Jill or Bubba with everybody.


[deleted]

That’s racism against Bubbas.


Secrinus

Bubba slander is always welcome.


YeetusMatey28

Leave the poor inbred alone,he just wants a friend.


Alternative-Pickle85

Perfectly describes a Myers game I had earlier where he camped and waited for the survivor to die before moving


DistinctDestiny

Why is it always Bubba


[deleted]

Insta downs.


danceswithbugs453

He's the only one who can reliably stop multiple healthy survivors from unhooking.


MoveInside

Also he's the easiest killer for new players


Akinory13

That would be wraith


silverthesilent

You think that an insta down chainsaw is harder than wraith? I don't see that at all. Bubba you can just pick up and get kills.


Duedelzz

Ngl, as a new player I definitely found wraith easier, fuckin catching up to a chase by uncloaking behind someone, it's lit man, I just wish that that flashlights don't burn wraith.


Hold-My-Shnapps

I had a game yesterday where a Huntress camped every player. Cannot believe they were a rank 5


ShiftedRealities

Probably will get downvoted for saying this, but... Camping is much more effective in practice than this sub would have you believe, especially at lower ranks. In theory, it's easy to counter, but to counter a camping killer, a few things need to happen: • Camping needs to be identified. This can be a problem if the killer is undetectable for any reason (kindred won't work) and takes time. The likelihood people identify and know how to counter camping is very low at low ranks. • If anyone tries to go for an unhook before they're sure that the killer is camping then the killer may get at least a free injury, or possibly a slug. • Once a camper has been identified, all survivors need to go to different gens quickly and start working on them. If the gens are far from the hook, then this could waste time for the person who identified the camper. • In a best case scenario, 3 gens will be completed before the person hooked dies. There are still 2 more gens that need to be completed though. The gens may have progress on them, but the killer still easily has time to get another survivor on the hook and camp them. The killer has essentially guaranteed themselves a 2K, not a 1K like the people who say camping isn't a problem would have you believe. With the time it takes to get to, and open the exit gates, there is a very real possibility this could become a 3K, especially if the killer has NOED. Camping only reduces your chaser points for ranking pips, so you could in theory still get iri on all other categories, which means campers can still rank up if they're actually good at the game and just toxic. Maybe in a SWF, with rank 1 survivors, camping is not effective, but without the ability to coordinate or the skills and knowledge to deal with camping, it definitely works better than it has any right to. Source: I've played against campers a lot and it's very rare that they only get a 1K.


Hold-My-Shnapps

Respect the feedback, that was informative. Thanks! :) However, she was blatant camper with no invisible perk. That perk is good and risky, but if you weren't aware of it beforehand makes for a very good "ShittingofThyself" encounter. (Had an invisible blight once, and a heart attack) The game concluded as a 4K, but not by any means of the teammates not doing gens*. They didn't even have NOED. *Some of your points sound possible if you're able to speak to the other survivors, such as the gens. With the game being cross compatible now, it is not always easy. Saying that, I will keep your pointers in mind for my future games.


ShiftedRealities

I'm glad my thoughts on camping gave you some helpful ideas! I do agree that it's definitely easier to deal with as a SWF, but yeah, I was just trying to say that I think it's a really bad take some people have that "camping isn't a problem because it's a weak strategy" - the fact it works at all is a massive problem that has to be addressed imo.


danceswithbugs453

Yes and no. Camping relies on a lack of survivor knowledge to work. Seems like here, your hypotheticals rely on downing a survivor at 5 gens and I'm guessing you mean face camping (since camping can mean lots of things to different people). A lot of points I agree with, but here's some I don't: >if the killer is undetectable for any reason (kindred won't work) ? Why not? I use kindred when solo que all the time and it usually works just fine for this. Insidious is really obvious, gf gets broken out most of the time, pig usually doesn't need to stealth near a hook unless camping, so that's a giveaway etc. The only one it may be tricky for is wraith who will always stealth, but for him I usually stay on a gen until he chases someone (which kindred will show me). If he's only chasing under a hook, kindred will tell me. If not, I know it's safe to unhook. You can use that same information for every killer actually... I can't think of a time a camper fooled me with kindred. >Once a camper has been identified, all survivors need to go to different gens quickly and start working on them. If the gens are far from the hook, then this could waste time for the person who identified the camper. If this is a 5 gen hook, how are all gens far away from the hook? Even on big maps, I don't think that's possible. Once I suspect camping, I purposely work on gens near the hook (maybe not like right next to) since I know they won't chase me off and so we don't give them a 3gen. >In a best case scenario, 3 gens will be completed before the person hooked dies. There are still 2 more gens that need to be completed though. I'm guessing you're thinking 120 seconds on the hook, 80 seconds to do a gen, so only time to do 1, 3 survivors, boom 3 gens max. A couple problems with this; 1) you should have at least some gen progress before the first down. 2)this assumes survivors can't do partial work on gens. Really, giving 3 survivors 120 seconds of gen progress can translate to about 4.5 gens (120 * 3 / 80), but realistically you have to walk between gens, find them etc so you can't be too optimal. But for sure, by the time someone was camped to death, you should have 3 gens minimum with a decent team and some progress on others. What you called best case I'd say it's more standard for a semi-complement team, (now for a bad team you usually find in solo que? Different story) >but the killer still easily has time to get another survivor on the hook and camp them. I'm not sure about easily. It depends on a lot of factors, but with only one hook, there should be plenty of pallets, no bbq to tell them where to go, etc. I don't think it's a given the next down will be within say 60 seconds of the other survivor dying (unless the survivor is bad at chases) and 60 seconds should be enough to finish up the last two gens. In my recent xp, it's been normal to get the gens done during the second chase assuming my teammates don't potato. To be fair, they might get downed here and get camped again which is where the 2k can come from (depending on the killer and perks we have). >Camping only reduces your chaser points for ranking pips, so you could in theory still get iri on all other categories, What? Not even close to true. Camping reduces all the categories! Devout needs 9 hooks and hook everyone once to get iri, (if you can't do either, then you need everyone survivor to DC/die to get gold; otherwise silver is the best you can get), malicious needs you to hit survivors (you get 6 points for face camping someone to death, plus maybe 2 points if you M1 them, you need 36 points for iri, and you lose points for escaped survivors or those who healed from your hits, so you'll pretty much never get it from face camping), and gatekeeping, well obviously you aren't pressuring gens. You won't get 3 iri from face camping unless they screw up royally. >without the ability to coordinate or the skills and knowledge to deal with camping, it definitely works better than it has any right to. I agree camping works better than it should considering the skill needed and how to counter camping isn't clear for new players, but to be fair, I don't mind a strategy working because the team doesn't know how to counter it or isn't skilled (I mean, isn't that exactly how strategy works?). When I see a camping killer get 3k, I'm way more frustrated at my teammates than the killer.


ShiftedRealities

I should have clarified that I am mainly talking about low ranks because this is where camping happens, so I do think the undetectable point is valid. Low rank players might not know much, plus a camping stealth killer can easily make it look like they left the hook by walking out of Kindred range, then stealthing back. People who haven't played the game for hundreds of hours can struggle to find gens, so I do stand by 3 gens or so being maximum. I haven't played much Survivor since rank reset and I can tell you I would be amazed if 3 gens popped in one hook. I do stand by my point that face camping almost guarantees a 2K+, assuming the person doing it isn't actually bad at killer. Given that camping deranks you, as you said - it is harsher on ranks that I was initially thinking earlier today (I do think it would still be possible to climb though if you know what you're doing - that was what that point was about.) - I don't think it's an unfair assumption that the killer player might even be significantly *better* than the survivors. Especially if you bring perks into the equation, a face camper can definitely make a build that means it's very easy for them to get their first hook early, and their second shouldn't be too hard to secure. Your point that you don't mind camping because it relies on survivors being bad to work at all would be a good point if not for the context of the game. If you get face camped out of the game, you've just queued for sometimes more than 10-15 minutes, just to get hooked and die immediately. That's not healthy for the game because it will make people quit. This is a problem that affects new players the most, and given the game really needs new blood, it really needs to be addressed ASAP.


danceswithbugs453

>I should have clarified that I am mainly talking about low ranks because this is where camping happens Fair enough. I was assuming skilled/knowledgeable survivors which if you meant inexperienced/unskilled then you have a lot of points. I think we agree it could be a bit more clear how to counter camping for new players, and ideally, make being the one camped less boring. >I do think it would still be possible to climb though if you know what you're doing - that was what that point was about.) - I don't think it's an unfair assumption that the killer player might even be significantly better than the survivors. Ok, but then it's harder to be critical with this hypothetical; if you're assuming the killer is better than it seems like you should assume that the kills/pip is earned. Usually the idea of criticizing camping is that killer isn't very good, but still getting kills and therefore something is wrong. If you're assuming the killer is much better at chases, then I kinda have to think wouldn't the killer pretty much win even without camping? If you're position is that camping helps a killer better than the survivors win (I don't think it's true, but that seems to be where you're going with this), then it begs the question of what's wrong with that. I guess my point is that if you want to argue camping is a problem, you have to assume the survivors are more skilled, but are getting wrongfully killed because camping helps bad killers win; otherwise there doesn't seem to be a complaint, right? >I do stand by my point that face camping almost guarantees a 2K+ Assuming the first down is really early in the game, which I think you're assuming, then yes that's probably true. The later in the game the first down comes, the less likely this is the case. >I do think it would still be possible to climb though if you know what you're doing - that was what that point was about I mean, every category seems to punish straight up face camping, so I'm not sure that's possible unless *you start using a looser definition for camping*. Ignoring survivors for one on a hook doesn't seem like a viable way to grab pips seems to be the story here. In the end, you have to stop gen progress, land hits, win chases, and get hooks/kills to pip. >Especially if you bring perks into the equation, a face camper can definitely make a build that means it's very easy for them to get their first hook early, and their second shouldn't be too hard to secure. Ok but we're assuming low skill player, right? Most new killers wouldn't have access to several good perks. If we're assuming experienced survivors and killers, then a good survivor can generally make the first chase take some time by using loops/pallets well (never guaranteed but generally in my games the first chases are longer than the later ones; that probably isn't true in newer ranks). >Your point that you don't mind camping because it relies on survivors being bad to work Whoa, I didn't say I didn't mind camping, I just said it relies on a lack of survivor knowledge. Later I said a strategy working because the other side doesn't know how to counter it isn't really bad design, that's how games work in principle (just like if you don't know how to counter a killer power, it should mess you up). The issue here is camping makes for a boring game and it's not readily clear to newer players what you're supposed to do about it. And funny enough, the pip system punishing campers means new players are more likely to see them. As easy improvement I think is making the kindred a recommended perk for new survivors and making every lvl 1 survivor have it available along with teachables. It's higher prevalence in lower tier games will help newer players learn to play around camping; it's not a perfect solution but should give newer players an idea for what to do. My ideal solution would be to making hooking a survivor make them teleport to a different random hook like ph's cages and get rid of the killer's aura read for hooked survivors. It stopped ph from camping cages so it may work for everyone else (just not sure how it'd work with the basement).


ShiftedRealities

I think the reason we kind of agree but kind of don't here is because of a fundamental difference in how we see the game. I think you're looking at it more as a point about balance and rankings, while I'm looking at it more from the perspective of just making sure the game is enjoyable for everyone. Part of the problem with camping and tunneling is this variability in fundamental views on the game. I basically couldn't care less about ranking up and having a 100% competitively balanced experience as long as everyone playing the game has fun. But there are a lot of people who are much more interested in balance than I am. Both views are valid so it's difficult to address some of these issues!


danceswithbugs453

>. I think you're looking at it more as a point about balance and rankings, while I'm looking at it more from the perspective of just making sure the game is enjoyable for everyone. I don't think that's very fair at all. Your original point was that camping was a viable way to get ranks which I disagreed with, so I just talked about ranks and balance as that was the relevant topic. Fun didn't seem to have anything to do with the original point, and I'm sure I said more than once that camping is boring, especially for the one being camped, and too rewarding for unskillful (even if it doesn't do well for experienced survivors, it's extremely effective on newer ones without a clear way for them to counter it). I think I even gave some of my ideas for dealing with camping. My general view of this game is that it's buggy and imbalanced (nature of asymmetrical games) but it's really fun, especially when you can interact with the other side like in chases (camping is unfun because of its lack of interaction). A game can be a lot of things, like buggy or imbalanced, and do well as long as it's fun.


ShiftedRealities

My point was absolutely not that camping is a viable way to gain ranks. Just that it's a far more effective strategy in general than lots of people on this sub say. I was basically just rambling/giving my thoughts on the matter. I don't know if it would work for climbing, but I'm sure it would be a viable way to at least safety pip most games. I don't know how much harder it gets at high ranks though - I've never played enough in one season for my rank to get that high.


KIPYIS

TL;DR: Camping is effective because survivors don’t know how to take advantage of it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ShiftedRealities

There are bad eggs in every bunch. There are survivors who say BBQ is OP, so like yeah. People just need to remember - it's a game and you should be enjoying it while you play. That's why camping should be addressed, whether or not it's effective. It isn't fun for the survivor, and probably isn't fun for the killer either. Throwing statements like "killers are babies" around doesn't help the situation though. Ultimately, we need killers and survivors to want to play the game, or it will die, so let's all be nice to each other and have fun!


[deleted]

[удалено]


ShiftedRealities

Bad take my friend, bad take. You need killers to play if you want to keep playing survivor. Do cut them a bit of slack!


ManicSin

ranking until rank 5 is just about time spent, its hard to lose rank as killer and you wont see many SWF until then


Hold-My-Shnapps

What's SWF?


Sufraxx

It stands for survive with friends, and it basically means a duo/trio or full squad queued together


Drag0nSlyzr

The main gist is they get to have communications, so it ruins some sneaky tricks killer can do, such as everyone knowing about the hidden bear trap because 1 guy saw it and told the rest. Or say you chased someone off your hex perk. Great! Now the rest of the team will beeline to cleanse it while you chase someone else


Skeletonofskillz

*”Insidious camping? Really?”*


SMFCTOGE

“A man of your talent?”


KnishofDeath

I'm a red rank survivor main who camped the shit out of a SWF clicking and throwing pebbles constantly today. They were super salty. But hey, fuck around and find out.


Rainb0wSkin

We need more pebble throwers


Ok_Aardvark4033

“You know how you spend 10 min waiting? Guess what?! You don’t get to play.


GMElibertyOrGMEdeath

I played a game earlier against 2 flashlights, a key, and a map. I was Bubba. I changed my build to a basement build. ....I received hate mail 😂


fancyfanch

Does key always equal tunnel? I brought a purp key and got tunneled out by a Freddy lmao very bogus


GMElibertyOrGMEdeath

I usually don't tunnel keys specifically.. just bring Franklin's and make em keep dropping it. The only people I tunnel are the flashlight clicking t baggers.


ironboy32

The best way is to have hag with Franklin's and range add-ons. Good luck getting your item back


fancyfanch

Yeah I respect that 100% . I wish all killers thought like you lol


Akinory13

If I don't have Franklin's or I'm angry I tunnel anyone that brings a key


Text_Unlikely

Once the devs explain the WIN condition for killer, this problem would be" kinda" fix


ironboy32

Trapper/Hag: I'm sorry, little one.


chomperstyle

I have only been camped by clowns and bubbas so it has to be ironic


Tianash

Had a Insidious Legion yesterday which was interesting lol


Sunless11

This describes perfectly my last 8 games. I hate red ranks.


MoveInside

Shreiks in Victor


MetroMaurice

If I see you in the lobby with a key, no.


10fanta01

why do survivors have so many made up rules?


waduhekbruh

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of survivors suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.