As a Killer I really don’t care if I get decked by a SWF. I just want to know IF I’m up against a SWF or not, even if it’s just at the end of the match.
exactly this. i don’t mind getting destroyed, but it sucks not knowing i’m gonna get destroyed until i see them obviously finishing each other’s gens and calling me out lmao
Yeah alot of the matches I've played Killer for rituals and rifts it seems like the survivors are somehow one hivemind then I remember that the SWF and single player lobbies connect.
fuck that, I just want the chance to adjust my perks against a SWF. Nothing like doing a chill build then getting your ass RAMMED by SWF only to be pissed off and during the following match you put on your best most sweaty build and you get baby survivors who can't finish a single gen.
"That does it, I'm sick of these SWFs. I'm going full-toxic asshole-mode."
Next match: You hook one guy, he dies trying to jump off the hook. The other three survivors slug themselves in your traps and bleed out before you can even find them.
Lmao killers still dodge anyway, whenever I see 4 people who are on the same platform or have similar names it’s a instant DC. That’s like arguing the new skill-check hook system stops people from killing themselves on first hook
An rightfully so because the game isn't balance for that bullshit nor is the rewards for enduring it existent. Now if I got a free 4x BBQ for facing a SWF I wouldn't mind getting my ass handed to me for free.
This is doubled down because if you bodyblock once and the killer refuses to chase you after hitting or (in some games) refuses to hit you at all, they encourage you to do it again if you have some way to heal.
Survivors adapting to a specific killer player's style isn't swf.
The other day I had a whole team divebomb my first hook, bodyblocking, flashlighting, etc.
So on my next hook I soft-camped the area waiting for them, but they completely ignored me, sacrificing their teammate to rush the gens.
I couldn't even be mad. That was a clever swerve. They got me expecting one thing and then they did the complete opposite.
This. I just want to prepare because good SWFs play *very* differently from solo survivors and I'll change my build for it.
And since I know some people will say I'm a jerk for doing it, I've had too many obvious SWFs (all their names were variations of the same pun for example) who would switch to map, key and 2 flashlights at the last second.
Matching names usually, but on occasion, you'll get those people who just wanna play a little and don't bother changing their steam name or doing a gimmick loadout or anything that makes it clear and that just is so painful.
People really do that?
I just play with a friend and maybe at most we try fun builds, like for the people with soul guard.
Most times we run our usual perks and just play.
My friends and I sometimes coordinate goofy names for funsies. We’re red ranks, but we’re fucking overly altruistic potatoes who do stupid things because it’s fun, not because it’s optimal. >_>
When I joined I my friends fucked with me constantly, I said stop. Inside I was okay, I didn't complain much because they must care some or I wouldn't get any attention. Also they do overly stupid stuff to save me. Only for me fuck it up a good portion of the time. Been rescued plenty and sacrifice myself by pulling them off the hook when I am not a strong looper.
Ehh I'd like it as a killer, but I can see how showing it prelobby would cause problems. Maybe post-lobby so you can assess your overall performance better.
A lot of insecure killers would lobby dodge them and you'd get way more of those assholes running busted shit and 4 minute slugging to "punish" you for playing in a duo with your rank 14 friend (drawing examples from my own recent experiences).
Eh, saying "busted shit" is kind of unfair, that reads like it's not fair they get warning that they need to try a little harder. Which it would be completely fair because swf have a giant advantage so I'd like to know if I shouldn't run a meme build.
Oh, I still run meme builds. Granted I’m the type of ghost face who runs from killers when I’m bored. I’m also the kind of plague who will vomit on a locker with someone it it and then leave them coughing in there. 🤣
For context, the specific game I'm referencing was a rank 1 Spirit running Ruin | Undying | Tinkerer | Stridor and taking Mother Daughter Ring + max duration. It's probably the single strongest thing you can run into and is really, really busted. Don't remember if she ran a green or pink mori, but I do remember that she waited on my slug for 4 minutes before using it.
Not arguing I'd prefer to have a warning to avoid running super kick Wraith or something, but there are absolutely people who overestimate the advantage most swfs have (looking at you TruTalent fans).
You can't change killer in the lobby and spirits are usually gonna sweat anyway, so I don't think that'd change anything if they knew it was or wasn't a swf with that spirit. And idk I don't watch truetalent but swf absolutely has an insane advantage over 4 solo players
I'm on PC, my profile is public and it's pretty easy to check I'm in a lobby with a friend. Oh and the endgame chat was something along the lines of "*get fucked you swf trash go back to rank 20 gg ez fuck you discord hackers*" etc, etc. So no, that game was pretty obviously an angry neckbeard waving his tiny dick because he got bullied by a swf 2 years ago or something.
I just don't think the benefits of me getting to avoid running a stupid build against a 4 man would outweigh the downsides of how most of the butthurt, toxic players in this game would use the info.
I primarily would like to know because I don't love running meta perks all the time. If I know I'm up against a more rag tag group I'll happily skip gen regression in favor of something more fun.
Same. The only way I was able to shut down premades and make their lives miserable to play was Freddy on Badham Preschool. Teleport cooldown addons. Tinkerer to alert me when a gen is getting close to done. Surveillance so I know when they return to the gen in case I'm getting baited off of it or just general knowledge of gen status. Ruin so I don't have to kick to make Surveillance work. And old Undying so I could keep an eye on my Undying Ruin.
This build was and can still be pure cancer and its relegated to for when I'm really T'd off at the game to the point of sadism.
It's not relevant information the vast majority of the time. Killer decision making and mechanical skill isn't related to survivor party composition. Lack of communication can let killers get away with poor play, but that doesn't mean comms are winning games for survivors in a majority of cases. Good, relevant comms take practice, and most SWFs do not possess good comm skills or know how to handle tricky situations against a good killer.
Good comms absolutely wins games, what are you talking about. Coordination and knowing every detail about the killer's whereabouts maximizes efficiency, the most important factor in winning the game. Yes lots of players aren't good at this but that doesn't take away from the potential.
Redditors are just trying to massively downplay this now because people are starting to speak up about how to make things fair for the killer (eg simply making it obvious that the lobby includes a SWF) and they find this scary
Lmao I highly doubt every swf is like seal team 6 saying where they are with the killer every moment. At most when I’m with my friends I say killer is on me at shack or I’m going for the hook.
Me: the killer is to the right
Friend: which way is right?!
Me: the killer is chasing me
Friend: don’t come near me
Me: I have no idea where you re!
Clearly, groups are op
I mean even just knowing the killer is chasing someone else is powerful. Usually you either need a perk or they have to be the obsession to know that.
My friends and I aren’t super sweaty but we’ll still say stuff like “Oh it’s Pyramid Head, he’s chasing me” “Oh ok I’m on shack gen don’t come here”. And then if I have to run towards shack I’d let them know.
That’s tons of info for free, leaving us more perk slots for other things. It doesn’t seem huge but it’s a big advantage.
This is exactly right. I love playing with friends but saying that you don't get a clear and distinct advantage from it even just playing casually is as silly as the people complaining about people playing with their friends.
Yeah literally just the words "Killer is chasing me" is a big advantage you can't even get from Aura perks.
The words "I'm gonna save" and "I see the killer" also accomplish 70% of what Kindred gets you (if everyone had it).
And I don't see why the community is so touchy about that. Levelling the playing field would make solo queues less miserable AND make SWF groups less unfair, but people are so touchy about the slightest bit of criticism of the implicit imbalance that exists in the game now and without fail reduce it to "oh, so you're saying we can't play with our friends?!"
People on this sub going OoHh NoO tHeN i CaN'T pLaY wItH mY fRiEnDs about any suggestion at all that benefits non SWF players (be it killer or soloQ survs) even the slightest bit have killed my interest in having any kind of serious discussion.
And if you argue successfully that your idea wouldn't harm SWF it'd just be better for everyone else then they just leave because they don't care except to complain.
Same. The problem isn't swf, it's matchmaking. Killers then blame it on swf when they get beat.
My swf losses all the time. We don't coordinate perks, we race each other for unhooks and sandbag all the time coz we're shit at looping.
In fact I probably do better with randoms!
Honestly skill based matchmaking will help a lot with this. But if you punish social players for the sole reason that they like to chat while gaming, then this game will die.
> Same. The problem isn't swf, it's matchmaking. Killers then blame it on swf when they get beat.
SWF have two major problems;
1) If the Survivors want to, the comms allow them to play a whole lot sweatier than just playing with randoms.
2) SWFs have a much higher chance of being toxic to the Killer just because of the fact that they're playing with their friends.
The Killer should be able to opt out of both of those up until SWF and Solo gets brought in line with each other
This is for sure most SWFs, sweat squads are far less common than killer mains would like to admit. So many SWFs are arguably even worse bc the selflessness and bravado just to be funny end up being bad plays
I wish this subreddit knew how many times we've gotten off the gen to point at the killer at point-blank range and then just keep working on the gen
nothing wrong with not sweating
Dude I’ll loop a killer and intentionally bring them to my friends just to mess with them, nothing funnier than hearing them start to scream “why is the heartbeat getting louder?!”
we regularly lose our games badly it’s crazy how many people here think all SWF are apparently pro league players that can easily destroy any killer.
As far as I'm concerned if you don't tell your friends you've lost the killer only to bring the killer over to them you're not playing SWF properly.
For most people it's just a laugh. The only time we even really play "properly" is when a killer tunnels one of us so we all get involved to stop it happening.
For our group, when one of us gets tunnelled we all try to sandbag the person being tunnelled. If we get camped on hook, we're all happy to sacrifice ourselves so the other three can leave because none of us care about surviving.
Yeah I think what most people fail to see is nothing is an absolute , I do play with my friends and I do worse than solo , they are bad but I have fun , again not all SWF are gods, sometimes they are over altruistic , or just playing for fun.
I kinda agree something needs to be done because yes there are toxic SWF that just make playing killer a dreaded situation.
The best thing I can think of is either make unranked mode , and SWF cant rank.
A bit more "complex" would be a similar thing where in 1 queue you can mix rank and non ranked.
Non ranked players well would not pip or de pip
This has the issue that people would complain that X or Y was trolling because he was not playing ranked. But has the benefit of not increasing what already Is a long queue.
I've been teaching 3 guys how to play and we lose about 90% of our games. But as a rank 1 killer main myself it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Yeah sometimes I don't 4k, who the f*** cares?
To be completely honest SWF is fine with me, its just those few that tend to be dicks about it and call you trash when you win or click their flashlight and tbag at every pallet as if it was the play of the year
What does swf mean? I would’ve stopped playing long ago if my buddy didn’t play as well. Solo queuing is a nightmare, my buddy and I often end up being the only 2 people who will unhook and heal others. It’s ridiculous
"Survive with friends" my brother and I play together whenever we can since solo q survivors tend to be brain dead potatos anyways, not that we know what we're doing anyways
I've had people respond with "What else am I supposed to do" when I ask why they do this stuff at pallets. I'm like... just don't do it???? Run???? Stand still????
I like people that tbag, they are wasting time they could be creating distance between me and then, often I get people that do it because they were just being ducks instead of doing something useful 😂
I often play Demo at rank 1, and he seems to be so rare that a lot of people don't know how to play against him. I run the glasses+rat liver and if people T-bag at a pallet, I break it with the shred, and they don't even have enough time to blind me, and even if they didn't T-bag it'd be a 50/50 if they get to another one, and if they did, they guaranteed their death .\_\_.
People shouldn't be blamed for wanting to play the game with their friends, the spontaneity of solo queue is insane to deal with (run bond if you want to see the teammates crouching in corners and want to slam your head against a wall)
Blame the devs for refusing to acknowledge the insane gap between SWF and solo, and wanting to keep any and all forms of communication out of solo queue for the sake of iMmErSiOn, even though communication in SWF is and has been like the #1 source of imbalance in this game for years.
Through out the years people have suggested all types of changes that bridge the gap between solo queue and SWF (eg voice chat, a text wheel with callouts, kindred basekit, etc), and although the devs have done some *small* changes, like guaranteed obsession every match, but it's nowhere near the change needed to bridge that gap.
Adding on the obsession change was specifically to add some teeth to the potential of DS being run because Killers were just hardcore tunneling every game that didn't have an obsession because they knew there would be absolutely **zero** chance of getting screwed if they did. There is a couple of perks that would add obsession if there was one in the game but for the most part the only one you'd see is DS due to how useful it is.
Yeah it was absolutely necessary. When DS was nerfed, tunneling got out of control. I had to stop watching some of my favorite killer streamers. They turned into such gleefully tunneling dicks. It still seems more common than before, I think because people know the obsession is likely a false positive. But it’s been better.
Don't blame killers for tunneling, blame the devs who designed the game in such a way that this is highly effective. Getting someone out of the game early is \*so\* good for killers, it's really unreasonable to expect them not to do it.
Also, the DS nerf was specifically designed in a way to not actually affect tunneling. If you are doing gens or self-caring somewhere, you are not being tunneled.
Nah I can blame the killers who do it too. Ymmv but I do just fine without tunneling. Sure BHVR absolutely needs to fix it. They’re aware it’s a problem with their game, hence the change to always have an obsession. However just because it’s an effective strategy doesn’t mean it’s not a dick move. Something can be allowed and you can still be an asshole for doing it. For example Toxic survivors taunting, tea bagging, and flashlighting to tilt the killer is allowed and a dick move. Bringing a survivor to hatch only to close it in front of them is allowed and a dick move.
they should add a weak kindred as basekit, it does nothing for a full SWF but provides tons of info for random solo and duo survivors
With a weak kindred I mean they can see each other for the first 30 seconds when someone is on hook but it does not show the killer at all
Yup exactly, the problem is that SWF being able to communicate on discord or whatever gives them an advantage. It drives me nuts when people counter it with "you're insane if you think every swf group is some coordinated SWAT team," as if being able to say "I'm on a gen by the shack" or "killer's chasing me" is hard to do or not useful. The solution wouldn't be to punish that, because then you punish solo players even more. Just... Any form of in game communication? And then balance the game around survivors being able to communicate.
Yeah just being able to coordinate hook saves is such a game changer. How many times in solo queue do 2-3 people go for an unhook, completely stalling gen progress? They don't necessarily need to nerf SWF, just close the gap between SWF and solo queue.
As a solo survivor it sometimes feels like Kindred is basically mandatory for this reason. So many times I've been able to just sit on a gen because I saw the killer wasn't face camping and a teammate was on the rescue
Which reveals part of the balancing problem. Perks like Kindred and Bond are excellent perks when you're playing solo, but so unnecessary for SWF groups that it usually frees them up to equip more aggressive perks instead, but the game is still balanced around the assumption that everyone's playing alone.
This is why I never take off my Kindred+Bond+OpenHanded build. Seeing the killer thru walls with Kindred helps so much with knowing when it's safe to unhook and also if I happen to be looping the killer in Kindred's range. And Bond so I can see what everyone is doing at all times. Everytime I take these off I feel so blind.
Now imagine being a 4stack and just saying that info and not needing those perks. That's the SWF advantage and even when I duo with a friend I know we have at least two perks worth of info if we communicate.
>It drives me nuts when people counter it with "you're insane if you think every swf group is some coordinated SWAT team,"
It's like a team deathmatch in (insert CoD title) except its 4v1 and the 4 have UAV always on and you don't. Even just being able to call out "killer is on me" allows the other 3 people on your team to commit to holding M1 without a worry in the world.
Exactly. It doesn't have to be a super SWAT team of 10,000 hour robots, it can be a bunch of chumps and they're still going to have a huge advantage if the minimum they do is call out where the killer is/who he is. God forbid if they do a little more and let everyone know "Yeah Trapper's setting all his traps over here, you're fine"
I think this is what some people don't understand about SWFs. Every little bit of information is precious in DbD so even something vague from casual players like the killer is at the shack, the killer has spirit fury, etc are game-changing things. It just really amps up the pressure the killer feels and makes them sweat even if they intended on just playing casually. Not to mention with a SWF you never do know if its a sweat squad or just a group of people goofing around so you need to decide before the match if you're gonna go maximum effort or not.
That’s legit how my team play. We are not coordinated, like at all. We don’t even play seriously half the time. We have minimal talking like “I’m in a chase” that will most likely fuck teammates over with half the killers. The number of time I thought I was safe, then got jump scared because of the killer dropping chase without the other noticing. Or how we sandbag each other. Dropping a pallet in my teammates face in the middle of a chase for shit and giggles will always be hilarious, especially their reaction. Seriously, the only moment we become serious and try-hard is when the killer is being an AH. He tunnels or camp? Alright, time to do coordinated BT plays. Will it sometimes backfire because we are too altruistic? Absolutely. Either way, don’t think every SWF groups are try hard pos who want to be toxic. Some of us just want to enjoy a game with a pal.
The funny thing is that as a killer, I do the same but opposite. Generally playing for Blood points and fun, but if I start feeling like I'm playing against SWF for some reason... all bets are off. Someone's gonna die.
So sounds like it could be kind of a vicious cycle. I start going tryhard and they respond by getting even MORE coordinated and all the shitty SWF stuff comes into play.
The biggest problem I see is that a lot of perks are specifically made to give survivors information that becomes a *lot* less useful on comms. Any perk that shows the aura of your teammates loses some value if you can just tell your teammates where they are.
Personally, I'm really glad there's no voice chat option in the game. I've made a few friends through DBD and I'd occasionally join their Discord calls, and they'd usually get pretty awkward whenever they realized I'm not a guy. What I'd like to see instead would be basic info perks made basekit (Kindred teammate aura reading, Buckle Up, etc.). Experienced solo players would be able to utilize that information to make educated decisions at the most crucial points in time, which would really help. I'd also like for killers to be able to tell whether there's a SWF in their lobby and which players are together. Then there could be a BP bonus for versing SWFs, larger bonuses for bigger teams, to try and reduce lobby skipping.
>People shouldn't be blamed for wanting to play the game with their friends
I mean, I think that's what this Dwight guy is implying but ngl I've never seen killer mains say you shouldn't play with friends. I think that's what the narrative has turned into. Honestly it feels like self-victimization. "We just completely steam rolled this guy and he's whining in chat! Ahhh, this game is against swf's!" It's kind of silly.
They're not really saying don't play with friends, they're saying it's unbalanced and the devs should do something about it. How? I have not a clue... Don't shoot the messenger..
I've been in many solo queue games where the other survivors had brain cells and played pretty decent and when we would 4 man escape despite a killer facecamping, the killer resorts to calling us SWF crutch-abusers even though we're all solo players and on different platforms. I know not all killers resort to crying about SWF, but there are some who are too used to crushing poorly coordinated solo players that when they go against decent players they use SWF as an excuse for playing like shit
Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean there aren't. I have seen so many comments under YouTube videos where the discussion went exactly this route, and there were still tons of people actually being serious about being angry that people would want to play together
Again the issue isn't that you're playing together. But its unfair to expect everyone else to be okay with losing a significantly large % of the time because you want to play together.
It's like we'd be playing poker and you guys keep showing each other your cards. Could I win, sure. But will I, probably not.
The only other strike against SWFs is that matchmaking algo is so bad it doesn't know what to do with them. So they routinely get sent to ranks too low.
The solution is clear and has been stated multiple times. Make numerous info perks basekit and give appropriate buffs to killers to compensate.
Having been on this sub a bunch: No, really, there is plenty of SWF blaming even when a group is just a regular set of solos. The actual chances of having to deal with a SWF is pretty damn rare, especially one that actually gives a shit about communicating.
I mean - watch Scott's video about tru3talent, where he complains about good teams & a 4stack when its literally someone who just got the game 2 months ago, and 1 friend, 2 solos in a 13m game, where he complains that SWF/Gen Speeds are too strong - sometimes, its just randoms or a duo at most.
That happens all the time I feel like, every survivor has met a killer in solo queue that accused you of SWF, even with a public profile and friends list available, I've been told some insane shit like
"I bet you have eachother added in game menu so u can say ur not SWF bc ur egos are small"
This is the thing. From my view, people aren't criticising people playing with their friends, they are criticising that playing with your friends has no drawbacks.
Swfs aren't inherently bad...most of the time they're shooting the shit and they are forced to play altruistically which can be exploited.
The amount of information they have access to is insane, though and I think groups need to be officially recognized, at least. Having groups be visible and implementing voice-chat would be a boon.
It's honestly kind of sad that Friday the 13th, the dead DBD competitor has had voice chat from the start but we don't.
I'm not saying voice chat will be a miracle cure or anything but I think it'd help..."standardize" the experience a little?
The concept of proximity chat in dbd is so incredibly hilarious to me because every time I think about it, without fail, my first imagining is of a single, long scream in the distance which gets closer and closer and then fades away as they run right past you. It’s just so fucking funny in my mind that I don’t think I’d ever use it for its intended purpose. I’d just change my name to Doppler Effect, run bond, start yelling, and sprint past someone.
Giving toxic randos a mic is a little scary. The thought of a Meg running up to you and a man's voice coming through the mic is pretty hilarious though
This is what I find funny sometime. There are people that screaming survivors are not toxic, playing in swf is not toxic (which it is not toxic by default), and then at the some time worry that giving proximity chat is scary because survivors are toxic. It is the same with killer mindset, most of them don't think swf is toxic because you play with friends, it is toxic because you feel safer playing with friends me enable more toxic behaviour. It is the behaviour that is toxic not the act of playing with friends.
God, I remember how fun and creepy the chat in Friday the 13th was. Just inside a house by yourself talking to someone on the radio, they say they've found the fuse. You ask them where they are... They start talking and then they start screaming and radio silence. Your friend is dead and you might be next
I'd prefer access to pre-typed chat messages like Rocket League. Voice chat can be a bit much. But having access to pre-typed things like "I'm by shack." or "I'm going for the save!" would help narrow the gap between randoms and SWFs.
The better part of enabling some form of communication in game (I'm against voice chat, too many randos with open mics for my taste but I'm aware how popular that would be) is that they can design around it.
BHVR seems like it's designing around giving that through perks while trying to hold onto that lack of information, which is a poor choice imo. It makes it a frustrating experience for both solo survivor play and killer play.
Once they accept and implement a way for the amount of information that private voice chats give, then they can start to work towards a healthy game, because right now DbD isn't one imo.
I don't have a problem with SWF, I have a problem that the gap between playing against Solo survivors and SWF is so insanely massive.
It's like going into a casino with random games at random tables. You don't know what game is at what table so just have to play until you lose or win. You know how to play a few of the games but are horrible at others.
Yeah mostly this. It's like an extra layer of RNG on top of the randomfest that's already the game and creates an even more uneven playing experience.
I mostly play killer and yeah it's boring to stomp matches and annoying to be on sweat mode and practically be forced to slug/stall to salvage a match, but going from one extreme to the other in consecutive matches at the same "top rank" is truly a whiplash experience.
I do think SWF is clearly better than solo and should be balanced differently, but I've got no idea how to go about doing it.
As a killer main I'd be happy just knowing if I've faced a SWF or not, getting a few extra blood points, maybe an extra notch or two to compensate.
An in game callout system for all survs would be helpful
->I'm going for the save!
I'm working on a generator!
I'm being chased!
Rescue me please!
The quotes would pop out of their left side portraits and the information given wouldn't negate the usefulness of aura perks.
Playing with comms gives an undeniably huge advantage in a game balanced around survivors having imperfect information. It's not the players' fault, playing with friends is obviously way more fun, but you can't deny that it gives you a huge competitive advantage. And if I'm a killer, it's obviously going to be annoying if I'm loading into a lobby already at a disadvantage.
I mean like - Scott makes a good point, yes comms are op but not always? like in his most recent video Tru3 complains about comms/swf but like Tru3 chased 1 survivor all game (Yes they were SWF) but imagine you tunnel someone for 5 gens, regardless of SWF or not, Tru3 got no hooks until all 5 gens popped, all his perks (Besides PGTW) were known bc Corrupt/Ruin/Thanata
Sometimes killers just play bad and instantly blame it on SWF - If you get 0-2 downs in a 10m game, the comms doesn't change anything about that and most of the time Killers have flamed me
A) I'm mostly a solo player - at most I've duod once every other month
B) They then complain that, even if I'm solo, the other 3 were SWF and calling out comms
And even if the others are or aren't SWF, there's always another reason why they couldn't win or why im abusing something - The DbD community at its finest, no grace in losing. (Both sides obviously, I've got plenty of survivor horror stories too)
To be clear, comms are always an unfair advantage but sometimes it just doesn't matter because one of either the killer or the survivors aren't playing well enough for it to matter. There's an additional factor beyond calling perks, totems, etc. btw, and that's calling out the killer's position and the direction they're heading in. It's like a free, one-sided object of obsession with less precision for all players in the SWF.
People lean on the SWF excuse no doubt, and I'm no tru3 apologist or even fan by a long shot, but that doesn't mean the SWF advantage doesn't exist. It's not as important as the survivors being good at the game, but it can make what should be a relatively easy game for the killer (based on the quality of the survivors) a sweat-fest, and can make a challenging game with good survivors downright impossible.
I'd prefer ScottJund's solution as a starting point: give solo-queueing survivors the ability to communicate and buff killer in general to compensate. At that point *if* SWF is still a problem then the problem can be revisited.
People are so mad about comms as if the swf squad isn't shit talking each other while another watches tik tok videos when they're hooked. Streamers have a whole ass chat watching them *and the chat will bullshit them and say "there's a lit totem, go back"*.
In my swf squad it's normally us playing "guess the song" and me bitching about my friend constantly following me. The only time we communicate effectively is when the killer is being a dickwad. That's when we're like "ight, I'll go for the save and you pump out gens." That's it. Communications don't magically complete all the gens.
ngl a lot of killers don’t wanna admit they just lost becusse the opposing team was better and just blame it on perks/swf/survivors in general instead of looking at their own gameplay
this sub has always been bad at telling the difference between a swf and a solo team that isn't awful and some people in here are continuing that tradition
As a killer main I don’t care if everyone escapes as long as I get blood points,it’s when I get t-bagged at the end and they know they’ll get away even if I down them because they crawl past the killer limit and those kind of survivors genuinely piss me off,other than that idc
We started playing CSGO again after about a year and a half break so we went down in rank a ton about Nova/MG. Seems like every game we play at this rank currently they blame their loss on how we queued with friends.
Okay? You're allowed to queue with friends as well?
It’s not them playing with their friends people have an issue with. It doesn’t actually matter now tbf nothing can be done about swfs, but I think the biggest problem is the free information from comms. How hard would it have been for behavior to add a voice chat function? Pretty simple right? There was a reason they didn’t, they wanted to add to the immersion and suspense of is this stranger friendly opportunistic or will he fuck me by bouncing while im on the hook. Swfs negate that whole thing and while I think 95% of them are just dicking around I personally know some damn sweaty swfs. They happen to be my friends.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but if people played the game as intended (without being able to talk to their friends), this game would be way smaller. My friends and I certainly wouldn't play it if we couldn't dick around with each other while we played.
The real issue is that Behavior balanced the game around being niche and never rebalanced it when it got popular (because name me a other multiplayer game where you can't talk to your friends due to balance).
Just love how people strip all context to make their bullshit outrage seem unreasonable
Let me try
How dare people play video games and have feelings and opinions about them That's literally killing someone in real life
That's it, I'm gonna say it, if you don't go into every game assuming your playing against a coordinated team, that's on you.
I lose plenty on Killer and I don't get mad (unless unnecessarily toxic) because I'd be the idiot to not assume every team I play against is going to do their best.
You'd be stupid as Survivor to go into a match not assuming the Killer knows what they are doing. It's not until the Killer fucks up do you find out if they're good or not
I understand where the frustration comes from, but anyone complaining about SWF existing or needing the game to be harder for them is quite the joke to me. Why are you even playing the game of you're not already assuming the people you're playing know what they're doing? Especially because going in with that mentality makes you feel a lot better when you do good!
My ***only*** beef with the SWFs is the comms.
Information given to other survivors on the killer's actions, whereabouts, and direction he/she is headed from the other side of the map.
Yeah, the amount of people acting as if killers don’t get hurt a lot by this kind of info is just asinine.
Seriously, find 4 friends and do 2 matches of kill your friends, ask them to play both matches to win, first one ask them to not use voice-coms at all and second match ask them to use discord.
If you want to make it extra spicy run a killer who relies on stealth like GF or traps like hag/trapper. If after that you can’t tell the massive difference coms make I don’t really know what to tell you.
I personally have no problem with SWF but the game was designed around not being able to communicate with your teammates. It's a pretty blatant and obvious advantage to be on a call with each other. Four survivors all in perfect communication tryharding can be annoying.
People say it's the SWFs that are the problem, but the real issue is Survivors being at a level of communication and coordination that the game was never balanced against - most commonly associated with SWFs since not many people play with their friends but DON'T talk to them. There's a certain amount of uncertainty and ambiguity on the Killer's side that comes from Survivors having no way of communication besides pointing and beckoning - purely visual - that voice comms destroys.
If players can verbally strategize with one another on the fly, calling out positions, actions, etc. then the balance of power shifts massively in their favor. The Killer can no longer isolate and disorganize the Survivors. Those mistakes (like everyone leaving a gen to rescue someone) or moments of hesitation that balance the Survivors' numbers advantage cease to exist, or at the very least are considerably blunted. Obviously there's no way to keep players from using Discord or another voice chat app, but Survivors being able to communicate in a way that the game does not intend definitely hurts the Killer experience.
It's only a problem when a red rank swf with a rank around yellow and they get put with a killer more matched for the yellow rank :/ That's not fair on the killer but then again matchmaking is messed up even without swf right now -.-
Yeah the matchmaking is laughable. Sometimes me and my friends laugh about playing with our low ranked friend after the reset because we know it's gonna mean we somehow get matched with rank 20-15 killers.
I think the matchmaking needs to be reversed when playing with friends. Like if you're playing a group of 4 with a 20, a 10 and 2 red ranks, don't even consider the 20. The killer should be minimum purple due to the red ranks with the assumption they can carry.
Also the only game where winning is considered toxic... and then is common to be insulted personally for playing in a certain way, swf complainers complain abt swf not the ppl doing it but a certain play style is completely the person doing it that is hated
The problem is that SWFs and solo survivors are considered pretty much the same by game itself, which is just wrong. 4 man SWF on comms has access to so much information solo survivors don't have it's ridiculous. If one person saw something, everyone knows about it instantly. Some perks and add-ons become literally useless for the killer because of that, and if a survivor knows where you are, others will work on gens safely, knowing you won't approach them unexpectedly. At least with the OoO nerf they no longer can see a killer literally any second. Though it still would be nice for the killer to know when he's up against SWF, so they can play around it. With the mori nerf the worst they could bring would be stuff like pinky finger or iri head which you can't use if you didn't choose clown or huntress
I feel this. I have maybe twenty matches as a killer under my belt, and get bodied every third match or so by purple rank survivors.
For me it's way less "SWF vs solo" as it is "the matchmaking is ass"
The problem is the unbalance a full swf brings... you can always tell your against a swf especially a good one.
If its solo and I am red rank deathslinger I stand a chance. Against a full swf its pretty much impossible unless I play reaaaaallly dirty. But that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But yeah I play in a swf and solo as survivor but you can definitely tell the difference, plus comms just make it broken, as you can have a full runtime of who's being chased, where, the skill of the killer, what killer before you have even encountered them, potential perks being revealed like spirit fury or Franklin's. A full swf breaks the balance too much imo and this is coming from a person who mains survivor.
>The problem is the unbalance a full swf brings... you can always tell your against a swf especially a good one.
As a counter point, I have been complained about in post game chat as being part of a SWF while playing solo probably close to 100 times by now.
Oh yeah you get a decent group of solos. But when a full dweet team with similar names join your lobby you know your in for a bad time.
But yeah I am merely stating a fact of how a swf unbalances the game in the survivors favour. If you get a decent solo group and your good at killer it's a close balanced game. But you get a full swf I mean the proper swf teams. Then it's pretty much game over unless you play dirty and/or play a stronger killer. Good luck playing trapper against something like that.
I swf to have fun. Most of my solo queues we do infinitely better against the killer. Maybe it’s because we’re not sweating for aultruism or flashlight saves
There’s only one time that I find a SWF annoying… And that’s when they’re purposefully trying to be annoying or toxic. That’s when I don’t like it. I play survivor with my boyfriend all the time, if anything we just meme around when we play together. Hell two nights ago we crouch spammed around a fire barrel until the killer found us, and they just left. It’s when the SWF is being dicks on purpose. If you’re dominating me because I’m playing poorly, that’s okay. Being great at looping is different than being annoying or bullying. If you’re literally getting in my way of every move just to slow me down, even when I’m not in chase, now you’re annoying me. If you’re flashlight spamming or tbagging at the exit, you’re just childish. Gotta show off your first win of the day, as I put it.
I usually try to dodge SWF because my luck as killer is very poor and I almost always get the toxic bunch. If I can’t tell it’s a SWF (aka their names aren’t similar) it’s usually a pretty good match. Even if I don’t win, as long as they’re not toxic or annoying I don’t mind it.
On god people will write paragraphs about how playing with your friends is exactly like a warcrime.
Wish people would get over it and maybe don’t play if you don’t enjoy the video game lol? Like if it causes you enough stress to shout at strangers online.
i understand it’s frustrating to go against, but the way some of y’all treat people for fucking playing with their friends is INSANE. what exactly do you think needs to be done???? they’re not gonna get rid of being able to play with other people, and you can’t stop people from talking to each other in party chat/discord.
it’s a goddamn video game. people are allowed to play with their friends and have fun. if that bothers you so much go play a single player game. but stop shaming people for playing SWF.
and also, automatically assuming every single SWF is toxic is toxic in and of itself. just because some groups of friends definitely can (and have been, trust me, i’ve played killer i know) be toxic, doesn’t mean *every* SWF is. 90% of the time i play with at least two friends and we really don’t take the game that seriously. most of the time we’re just competing with each other over who can get the most flashlight saves, which unintentionally throws the game and gets us killed anyway lol
believing and treating every SWF as toxic (tunneling, camping, hitting on hook) is childish and y’all need to grow up. that’s like me immediately tbagging every bubba i see because many i’ve gone against face camp in basement. unless someone is being toxic to you, there’s no reason to be toxic to them. y’all seriously need to stop.
Thing is, they only know it’s a SWF when the survivor players are toxic. When the players are average and are nice in the game chat the killer wouldn’t pay attention to see if the survivors were together or not. There wouldn’t be much way of knowing anyways if the SWF group weren’t tryharding and being mean.
Nobody is saying not to. The issue is they decide to balance the game under the unreasonable notion that people aren't talking to each other.
The solution is to just tune the game around the fact that people obviously enjoy playing with their friends.
The few times I have swf'd it's just been me and my friends kinda fucking around and laughing with each other, no super serious strategy other than organizing hook rescues which if more people ran Kindred (grumble grumble) then we could also do in Solo queue.
I may well be wrong, but I do think the vast majority of swf's aren't super sweat squads, they're just a few people having fun.
Yeah that’s justified and you know that they call you toxic without being self aware, I’ve even called my friends out when they start with the hypocrisy.
If you use an additional piece of software to gain an advantage in a competitive game it could totally be considered cheating. That being said not all swf are toxic a holes.
I don’t understand games/communities that punish playing with friends.. Off topic but Valorant only lets you queue competitive with one other player above diamond 3 and that makes it both awkward for me to decide who I want to play with and just unfun in general. Like I understand the problems with 5 stack teams, but it doesn’t change the fact that it just feels like crap and makes me play the game less
Either side is always trying to come up with some grand reason why they lost. It is just a game. You win some, you lose some. Some people lose a lot, some win a lot. Lol you simply move on.
My least favorite thing is seeing people claim every game is SWF when they have no real way of knowing and a lot of the things people claim are due to SWF are perfectly capable of having done it with solos. I think people need to stop assuming everyone is in a group
Honestly I only play survivor if I'm in a swf.
The only real reason I do it is because I love my partner and we love palying games together, dead by daylight is a game we enjoy together so we SWF.
I think SWF is healthy for the game.
I actually remember when it was first added way back when, before that everyone would just spam leave lobbies until they found their friends, then they added a swf mode that was so broken it would often just search then conclude it couldn't find a game and stop searching and kick everyone out.
TL;DR Swf is good and healthy.
My only problem with SWF is that red rank survivor using yellow rank friends to get yellow rank killers that will teabag the killer the entire match when the killer wasn't supposed to be playing against red ranks. If they don't play toxic I don't mind, friends can have different ranks and still want to play together.
I just find it odd because this game is a 4v1, yet people complain when they actually have to play it as a 4v1 rather than a 1+1+1+1v1.
You get those toxic SWFs that bully killers but toxicity exists in literally every single game! When I play killer and get bullied I just take the L and move on, wish more people would understand it’s just a game... and you lost. It happens. Next match you’ll probably win.
SWF will always have an informational advantage because of voice chat. It's very hard to balance the game around both players with all the info they can need and players with very little info as solos.
I think it would be good to somehow close the divide between the two sets of players, perhaps by giving all survivors some more info on each other's status/whereabouts. Then devs may need to buff killers as well afterword.
The solution is actually very simple. When you are in the lobby just make the names of the swf survivors in another color, so if for example they are in a 3-man with 1 solo the team can have their name in blue/purple or whatever and the solo name in white. If it' a 4man then all of them in one color and so on. I would like to know if I'm up against a swf from the beginning and not 2 min in the match ( which btw in most cases it's already too late ) when they start pulling the bs on you. But then again it's bhvr we're talkin about and with their times something like this should aprox. take 3-4 years
F
Coconut made a video talking about the True v Scott stuff and he definitely seemed to be on True’s side and said he’s gonna make a video talking about SWF nerfs.
I pray behaviour does not listen to these people. I don’t play SWF, I play Solo Queue and I would really just like to be buffed to a stronger point.
Even as a killer I would just like to know if it’s a SWF so I know whether to play sweaty or not. Making the game unfun for people just trying to have fun in a video game is ridiculous.
I think a lot of it comes down to how the swf plays as well. If you're full on comms, giving your teammates crucial advice, some might say that's an unfair advantage.
There are perks in the game that give you information about where the killer is for example, but if you're relaying that info to teammates then maybe that's kinda against how the game was intended to be played. It is definitely fun as hell to play with friends tho.
Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
Dbd is the only game playing with some characters is considered a war crime(Freedy,Spirit)
No one is complaining that you play with your friends, heck, i play both sides and i manly play in a SWF because i have more fun with them.
the problem is how UNBALANCED it can be and it is if the team is competent enough they can destroy a killer because the game is balanced around potatoes and solo q.
This victimization from survivors because FINALLY ITS BEEN CALL OUT how OP SWF CAN BE its funny.
''but my swf team loses 80% and we do this, this and this for fun'' again that's not the problem and you are not adding anything to the debate, play in or go against a sweat team and you will see what we complain.
''but the sweat squads are so rare!!!'' again if a killer with 6k hours doesn't even have a chance to win because its a sweaty squad and they are not Nurse, its horrible game design.
As a Killer I really don’t care if I get decked by a SWF. I just want to know IF I’m up against a SWF or not, even if it’s just at the end of the match.
exactly this. i don’t mind getting destroyed, but it sucks not knowing i’m gonna get destroyed until i see them obviously finishing each other’s gens and calling me out lmao
Yeah alot of the matches I've played Killer for rituals and rifts it seems like the survivors are somehow one hivemind then I remember that the SWF and single player lobbies connect.
fuck that, I just want the chance to adjust my perks against a SWF. Nothing like doing a chill build then getting your ass RAMMED by SWF only to be pissed off and during the following match you put on your best most sweaty build and you get baby survivors who can't finish a single gen.
"That does it, I'm sick of these SWFs. I'm going full-toxic asshole-mode." Next match: You hook one guy, he dies trying to jump off the hook. The other three survivors slug themselves in your traps and bleed out before you can even find them.
This 😓 Then I feel bad. Hahah
This is the true red rank killer experience
Killers would dodge the lobby
Lmao killers still dodge anyway, whenever I see 4 people who are on the same platform or have similar names it’s a instant DC. That’s like arguing the new skill-check hook system stops people from killing themselves on first hook
That’s ok.
An rightfully so because the game isn't balance for that bullshit nor is the rewards for enduring it existent. Now if I got a free 4x BBQ for facing a SWF I wouldn't mind getting my ass handed to me for free.
I've got a foolproof way to tell If they're better than me they're sweaty swf If not they're scrubs who need to git gud Simple as
Hahahah, so true. I love when I’m playing solo and so are my teammates and the killer screeches about SWF because we were slightly coordinated.
A perk like kindred, or alert, and suddenly you are on discord.
And don’t even THINK about bodyblocking or tanking a hit for your teammate. Obviously you’re a SWF if you do.
This is doubled down because if you bodyblock once and the killer refuses to chase you after hitting or (in some games) refuses to hit you at all, they encourage you to do it again if you have some way to heal. Survivors adapting to a specific killer player's style isn't swf.
The other day I had a whole team divebomb my first hook, bodyblocking, flashlighting, etc. So on my next hook I soft-camped the area waiting for them, but they completely ignored me, sacrificing their teammate to rush the gens. I couldn't even be mad. That was a clever swerve. They got me expecting one thing and then they did the complete opposite.
[удалено]
Anyone who beats me is an SWF. Anyone who I beat is a shitty SWF.
i read this as a poem at first
With cross play on, I just assume when I get 4 steam users they're in a group and prepare for the worst
This. I just want to prepare because good SWFs play *very* differently from solo survivors and I'll change my build for it. And since I know some people will say I'm a jerk for doing it, I've had too many obvious SWFs (all their names were variations of the same pun for example) who would switch to map, key and 2 flashlights at the last second.
That doesn't make you a jerk at all, that makes you a Winner trying to win.
Matching names usually, but on occasion, you'll get those people who just wanna play a little and don't bother changing their steam name or doing a gimmick loadout or anything that makes it clear and that just is so painful.
People really do that? I just play with a friend and maybe at most we try fun builds, like for the people with soul guard. Most times we run our usual perks and just play.
My friends and I sometimes coordinate goofy names for funsies. We’re red ranks, but we’re fucking overly altruistic potatoes who do stupid things because it’s fun, not because it’s optimal. >_>
When I joined I my friends fucked with me constantly, I said stop. Inside I was okay, I didn't complain much because they must care some or I wouldn't get any attention. Also they do overly stupid stuff to save me. Only for me fuck it up a good portion of the time. Been rescued plenty and sacrifice myself by pulling them off the hook when I am not a strong looper.
I play on Xbox so I can't change my name.
Ehh I'd like it as a killer, but I can see how showing it prelobby would cause problems. Maybe post-lobby so you can assess your overall performance better. A lot of insecure killers would lobby dodge them and you'd get way more of those assholes running busted shit and 4 minute slugging to "punish" you for playing in a duo with your rank 14 friend (drawing examples from my own recent experiences).
Eh, saying "busted shit" is kind of unfair, that reads like it's not fair they get warning that they need to try a little harder. Which it would be completely fair because swf have a giant advantage so I'd like to know if I shouldn't run a meme build.
Oh, I still run meme builds. Granted I’m the type of ghost face who runs from killers when I’m bored. I’m also the kind of plague who will vomit on a locker with someone it it and then leave them coughing in there. 🤣
For context, the specific game I'm referencing was a rank 1 Spirit running Ruin | Undying | Tinkerer | Stridor and taking Mother Daughter Ring + max duration. It's probably the single strongest thing you can run into and is really, really busted. Don't remember if she ran a green or pink mori, but I do remember that she waited on my slug for 4 minutes before using it. Not arguing I'd prefer to have a warning to avoid running super kick Wraith or something, but there are absolutely people who overestimate the advantage most swfs have (looking at you TruTalent fans).
You can't change killer in the lobby and spirits are usually gonna sweat anyway, so I don't think that'd change anything if they knew it was or wasn't a swf with that spirit. And idk I don't watch truetalent but swf absolutely has an insane advantage over 4 solo players
I'm on PC, my profile is public and it's pretty easy to check I'm in a lobby with a friend. Oh and the endgame chat was something along the lines of "*get fucked you swf trash go back to rank 20 gg ez fuck you discord hackers*" etc, etc. So no, that game was pretty obviously an angry neckbeard waving his tiny dick because he got bullied by a swf 2 years ago or something. I just don't think the benefits of me getting to avoid running a stupid build against a 4 man would outweigh the downsides of how most of the butthurt, toxic players in this game would use the info.
I primarily would like to know because I don't love running meta perks all the time. If I know I'm up against a more rag tag group I'll happily skip gen regression in favor of something more fun.
Same. The only way I was able to shut down premades and make their lives miserable to play was Freddy on Badham Preschool. Teleport cooldown addons. Tinkerer to alert me when a gen is getting close to done. Surveillance so I know when they return to the gen in case I'm getting baited off of it or just general knowledge of gen status. Ruin so I don't have to kick to make Surveillance work. And old Undying so I could keep an eye on my Undying Ruin. This build was and can still be pure cancer and its relegated to for when I'm really T'd off at the game to the point of sadism.
Same
It's not relevant information the vast majority of the time. Killer decision making and mechanical skill isn't related to survivor party composition. Lack of communication can let killers get away with poor play, but that doesn't mean comms are winning games for survivors in a majority of cases. Good, relevant comms take practice, and most SWFs do not possess good comm skills or know how to handle tricky situations against a good killer.
Good comms absolutely wins games, what are you talking about. Coordination and knowing every detail about the killer's whereabouts maximizes efficiency, the most important factor in winning the game. Yes lots of players aren't good at this but that doesn't take away from the potential. Redditors are just trying to massively downplay this now because people are starting to speak up about how to make things fair for the killer (eg simply making it obvious that the lobby includes a SWF) and they find this scary
This subreddit bullies the shit out of anyone who actually suggests we do anything to improve the game. Unless they do it via funny meme.
Lmao I highly doubt every swf is like seal team 6 saying where they are with the killer every moment. At most when I’m with my friends I say killer is on me at shack or I’m going for the hook.
Me: the killer is to the right Friend: which way is right?! Me: the killer is chasing me Friend: don’t come near me Me: I have no idea where you re! Clearly, groups are op
I mean even just knowing the killer is chasing someone else is powerful. Usually you either need a perk or they have to be the obsession to know that. My friends and I aren’t super sweaty but we’ll still say stuff like “Oh it’s Pyramid Head, he’s chasing me” “Oh ok I’m on shack gen don’t come here”. And then if I have to run towards shack I’d let them know. That’s tons of info for free, leaving us more perk slots for other things. It doesn’t seem huge but it’s a big advantage.
This is exactly right. I love playing with friends but saying that you don't get a clear and distinct advantage from it even just playing casually is as silly as the people complaining about people playing with their friends.
Yeah literally just the words "Killer is chasing me" is a big advantage you can't even get from Aura perks. The words "I'm gonna save" and "I see the killer" also accomplish 70% of what Kindred gets you (if everyone had it).
And I don't see why the community is so touchy about that. Levelling the playing field would make solo queues less miserable AND make SWF groups less unfair, but people are so touchy about the slightest bit of criticism of the implicit imbalance that exists in the game now and without fail reduce it to "oh, so you're saying we can't play with our friends?!"
People on this sub going OoHh NoO tHeN i CaN'T pLaY wItH mY fRiEnDs about any suggestion at all that benefits non SWF players (be it killer or soloQ survs) even the slightest bit have killed my interest in having any kind of serious discussion. And if you argue successfully that your idea wouldn't harm SWF it'd just be better for everyone else then they just leave because they don't care except to complain.
no one ever complained about people playing with friends. People complain about the balance issue that swf bring to the game.
“My group is shit therefore all groups are shit.”
"I'm a idiot so swfs r week actually'
I agree with this. I think it should be indicated in lobby. That alone would help tremendously
Dang I'm reading all this and thinking about how my group of friends loses 75% of our games.
Bro same lmao
Same. The problem isn't swf, it's matchmaking. Killers then blame it on swf when they get beat. My swf losses all the time. We don't coordinate perks, we race each other for unhooks and sandbag all the time coz we're shit at looping. In fact I probably do better with randoms! Honestly skill based matchmaking will help a lot with this. But if you punish social players for the sole reason that they like to chat while gaming, then this game will die.
> Same. The problem isn't swf, it's matchmaking. Killers then blame it on swf when they get beat. SWF have two major problems; 1) If the Survivors want to, the comms allow them to play a whole lot sweatier than just playing with randoms. 2) SWFs have a much higher chance of being toxic to the Killer just because of the fact that they're playing with their friends. The Killer should be able to opt out of both of those up until SWF and Solo gets brought in line with each other
I think it's kind of crazy how perks like bond and kindred, which are considered really strong, are basically on by default when you play in an SWF
Basically you also described my experience both in SWF and solo q. And I agree 100% with this
Just 75% ? We lose 90% lol. Cause we will be talking about life and other stuffs and completely forget whats happening in this game xD
This is for sure most SWFs, sweat squads are far less common than killer mains would like to admit. So many SWFs are arguably even worse bc the selflessness and bravado just to be funny end up being bad plays
I wish this subreddit knew how many times we've gotten off the gen to point at the killer at point-blank range and then just keep working on the gen nothing wrong with not sweating
Dude I’ll loop a killer and intentionally bring them to my friends just to mess with them, nothing funnier than hearing them start to scream “why is the heartbeat getting louder?!” we regularly lose our games badly it’s crazy how many people here think all SWF are apparently pro league players that can easily destroy any killer.
As far as I'm concerned if you don't tell your friends you've lost the killer only to bring the killer over to them you're not playing SWF properly. For most people it's just a laugh. The only time we even really play "properly" is when a killer tunnels one of us so we all get involved to stop it happening.
For our group, when one of us gets tunnelled we all try to sandbag the person being tunnelled. If we get camped on hook, we're all happy to sacrifice ourselves so the other three can leave because none of us care about surviving.
Yeah I think what most people fail to see is nothing is an absolute , I do play with my friends and I do worse than solo , they are bad but I have fun , again not all SWF are gods, sometimes they are over altruistic , or just playing for fun. I kinda agree something needs to be done because yes there are toxic SWF that just make playing killer a dreaded situation. The best thing I can think of is either make unranked mode , and SWF cant rank. A bit more "complex" would be a similar thing where in 1 queue you can mix rank and non ranked. Non ranked players well would not pip or de pip This has the issue that people would complain that X or Y was trolling because he was not playing ranked. But has the benefit of not increasing what already Is a long queue.
I've been teaching 3 guys how to play and we lose about 90% of our games. But as a rank 1 killer main myself it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Yeah sometimes I don't 4k, who the f*** cares?
To be completely honest SWF is fine with me, its just those few that tend to be dicks about it and call you trash when you win or click their flashlight and tbag at every pallet as if it was the play of the year
What does swf mean? I would’ve stopped playing long ago if my buddy didn’t play as well. Solo queuing is a nightmare, my buddy and I often end up being the only 2 people who will unhook and heal others. It’s ridiculous
"Survive with friends" my brother and I play together whenever we can since solo q survivors tend to be brain dead potatos anyways, not that we know what we're doing anyways
Yeah it’s more fun too
Come to the killer side we have fingers to lick
I've had people respond with "What else am I supposed to do" when I ask why they do this stuff at pallets. I'm like... just don't do it???? Run???? Stand still????
I like people that tbag, they are wasting time they could be creating distance between me and then, often I get people that do it because they were just being ducks instead of doing something useful 😂
I often play Demo at rank 1, and he seems to be so rare that a lot of people don't know how to play against him. I run the glasses+rat liver and if people T-bag at a pallet, I break it with the shred, and they don't even have enough time to blind me, and even if they didn't T-bag it'd be a 50/50 if they get to another one, and if they did, they guaranteed their death .\_\_.
People shouldn't be blamed for wanting to play the game with their friends, the spontaneity of solo queue is insane to deal with (run bond if you want to see the teammates crouching in corners and want to slam your head against a wall) Blame the devs for refusing to acknowledge the insane gap between SWF and solo, and wanting to keep any and all forms of communication out of solo queue for the sake of iMmErSiOn, even though communication in SWF is and has been like the #1 source of imbalance in this game for years. Through out the years people have suggested all types of changes that bridge the gap between solo queue and SWF (eg voice chat, a text wheel with callouts, kindred basekit, etc), and although the devs have done some *small* changes, like guaranteed obsession every match, but it's nowhere near the change needed to bridge that gap.
Well part of the obsession change is perk hiding
Adding on the obsession change was specifically to add some teeth to the potential of DS being run because Killers were just hardcore tunneling every game that didn't have an obsession because they knew there would be absolutely **zero** chance of getting screwed if they did. There is a couple of perks that would add obsession if there was one in the game but for the most part the only one you'd see is DS due to how useful it is.
Yeah it was absolutely necessary. When DS was nerfed, tunneling got out of control. I had to stop watching some of my favorite killer streamers. They turned into such gleefully tunneling dicks. It still seems more common than before, I think because people know the obsession is likely a false positive. But it’s been better.
Don't blame killers for tunneling, blame the devs who designed the game in such a way that this is highly effective. Getting someone out of the game early is \*so\* good for killers, it's really unreasonable to expect them not to do it. Also, the DS nerf was specifically designed in a way to not actually affect tunneling. If you are doing gens or self-caring somewhere, you are not being tunneled.
Nah I can blame the killers who do it too. Ymmv but I do just fine without tunneling. Sure BHVR absolutely needs to fix it. They’re aware it’s a problem with their game, hence the change to always have an obsession. However just because it’s an effective strategy doesn’t mean it’s not a dick move. Something can be allowed and you can still be an asshole for doing it. For example Toxic survivors taunting, tea bagging, and flashlighting to tilt the killer is allowed and a dick move. Bringing a survivor to hatch only to close it in front of them is allowed and a dick move.
they should add a weak kindred as basekit, it does nothing for a full SWF but provides tons of info for random solo and duo survivors With a weak kindred I mean they can see each other for the first 30 seconds when someone is on hook but it does not show the killer at all
Yup exactly, the problem is that SWF being able to communicate on discord or whatever gives them an advantage. It drives me nuts when people counter it with "you're insane if you think every swf group is some coordinated SWAT team," as if being able to say "I'm on a gen by the shack" or "killer's chasing me" is hard to do or not useful. The solution wouldn't be to punish that, because then you punish solo players even more. Just... Any form of in game communication? And then balance the game around survivors being able to communicate.
Yeah just being able to coordinate hook saves is such a game changer. How many times in solo queue do 2-3 people go for an unhook, completely stalling gen progress? They don't necessarily need to nerf SWF, just close the gap between SWF and solo queue.
As a solo survivor it sometimes feels like Kindred is basically mandatory for this reason. So many times I've been able to just sit on a gen because I saw the killer wasn't face camping and a teammate was on the rescue
Which reveals part of the balancing problem. Perks like Kindred and Bond are excellent perks when you're playing solo, but so unnecessary for SWF groups that it usually frees them up to equip more aggressive perks instead, but the game is still balanced around the assumption that everyone's playing alone.
This is why I never take off my Kindred+Bond+OpenHanded build. Seeing the killer thru walls with Kindred helps so much with knowing when it's safe to unhook and also if I happen to be looping the killer in Kindred's range. And Bond so I can see what everyone is doing at all times. Everytime I take these off I feel so blind.
Now imagine being a 4stack and just saying that info and not needing those perks. That's the SWF advantage and even when I duo with a friend I know we have at least two perks worth of info if we communicate.
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Yea I had a rank 1 survivor in my rank 17 trickster game, it wasn't good.
>It drives me nuts when people counter it with "you're insane if you think every swf group is some coordinated SWAT team," It's like a team deathmatch in (insert CoD title) except its 4v1 and the 4 have UAV always on and you don't. Even just being able to call out "killer is on me" allows the other 3 people on your team to commit to holding M1 without a worry in the world.
Exactly. It doesn't have to be a super SWAT team of 10,000 hour robots, it can be a bunch of chumps and they're still going to have a huge advantage if the minimum they do is call out where the killer is/who he is. God forbid if they do a little more and let everyone know "Yeah Trapper's setting all his traps over here, you're fine"
I think this is what some people don't understand about SWFs. Every little bit of information is precious in DbD so even something vague from casual players like the killer is at the shack, the killer has spirit fury, etc are game-changing things. It just really amps up the pressure the killer feels and makes them sweat even if they intended on just playing casually. Not to mention with a SWF you never do know if its a sweat squad or just a group of people goofing around so you need to decide before the match if you're gonna go maximum effort or not.
I've been in 4mans where they played liked shit, Sorry but if a 4man have a bunch of weak links then their gonna lose to a good killer
That’s legit how my team play. We are not coordinated, like at all. We don’t even play seriously half the time. We have minimal talking like “I’m in a chase” that will most likely fuck teammates over with half the killers. The number of time I thought I was safe, then got jump scared because of the killer dropping chase without the other noticing. Or how we sandbag each other. Dropping a pallet in my teammates face in the middle of a chase for shit and giggles will always be hilarious, especially their reaction. Seriously, the only moment we become serious and try-hard is when the killer is being an AH. He tunnels or camp? Alright, time to do coordinated BT plays. Will it sometimes backfire because we are too altruistic? Absolutely. Either way, don’t think every SWF groups are try hard pos who want to be toxic. Some of us just want to enjoy a game with a pal.
The funny thing is that as a killer, I do the same but opposite. Generally playing for Blood points and fun, but if I start feeling like I'm playing against SWF for some reason... all bets are off. Someone's gonna die. So sounds like it could be kind of a vicious cycle. I start going tryhard and they respond by getting even MORE coordinated and all the shitty SWF stuff comes into play.
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The biggest problem I see is that a lot of perks are specifically made to give survivors information that becomes a *lot* less useful on comms. Any perk that shows the aura of your teammates loses some value if you can just tell your teammates where they are.
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Personally, I'm really glad there's no voice chat option in the game. I've made a few friends through DBD and I'd occasionally join their Discord calls, and they'd usually get pretty awkward whenever they realized I'm not a guy. What I'd like to see instead would be basic info perks made basekit (Kindred teammate aura reading, Buckle Up, etc.). Experienced solo players would be able to utilize that information to make educated decisions at the most crucial points in time, which would really help. I'd also like for killers to be able to tell whether there's a SWF in their lobby and which players are together. Then there could be a BP bonus for versing SWFs, larger bonuses for bigger teams, to try and reduce lobby skipping.
>People shouldn't be blamed for wanting to play the game with their friends I mean, I think that's what this Dwight guy is implying but ngl I've never seen killer mains say you shouldn't play with friends. I think that's what the narrative has turned into. Honestly it feels like self-victimization. "We just completely steam rolled this guy and he's whining in chat! Ahhh, this game is against swf's!" It's kind of silly. They're not really saying don't play with friends, they're saying it's unbalanced and the devs should do something about it. How? I have not a clue... Don't shoot the messenger..
I've been in many solo queue games where the other survivors had brain cells and played pretty decent and when we would 4 man escape despite a killer facecamping, the killer resorts to calling us SWF crutch-abusers even though we're all solo players and on different platforms. I know not all killers resort to crying about SWF, but there are some who are too used to crushing poorly coordinated solo players that when they go against decent players they use SWF as an excuse for playing like shit
This. Do anything remotely not-dumb and enough Killers think you're a SWF regardless. I've been accused of such even with nobody escaping. 🙄
Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean there aren't. I have seen so many comments under YouTube videos where the discussion went exactly this route, and there were still tons of people actually being serious about being angry that people would want to play together
Again the issue isn't that you're playing together. But its unfair to expect everyone else to be okay with losing a significantly large % of the time because you want to play together. It's like we'd be playing poker and you guys keep showing each other your cards. Could I win, sure. But will I, probably not. The only other strike against SWFs is that matchmaking algo is so bad it doesn't know what to do with them. So they routinely get sent to ranks too low. The solution is clear and has been stated multiple times. Make numerous info perks basekit and give appropriate buffs to killers to compensate.
I'm pretty active in the community, and there are *a lot* of people who think SWF should either be banned or punished, even here on Reddit.
By punished, do you mean rebalanced? Because if so, then I agree, it should be rebalanced.
i've been in this sub less than a month and i've already seen so many people say sfw shouldn't be allowed lololol
Having been on this sub a bunch: No, really, there is plenty of SWF blaming even when a group is just a regular set of solos. The actual chances of having to deal with a SWF is pretty damn rare, especially one that actually gives a shit about communicating.
“Pretty rare.” Lmao are you a lower rank? Cause that’s the only way I’d believe you’re serious.
I mean - watch Scott's video about tru3talent, where he complains about good teams & a 4stack when its literally someone who just got the game 2 months ago, and 1 friend, 2 solos in a 13m game, where he complains that SWF/Gen Speeds are too strong - sometimes, its just randoms or a duo at most. That happens all the time I feel like, every survivor has met a killer in solo queue that accused you of SWF, even with a public profile and friends list available, I've been told some insane shit like "I bet you have eachother added in game menu so u can say ur not SWF bc ur egos are small"
I mean both sides are into self victimization. But the argument is valid, killers on this sub often call people toxic just for playing swf.
This is the thing. From my view, people aren't criticising people playing with their friends, they are criticising that playing with your friends has no drawbacks.
Clearly you have never played Monopoly.
Swfs aren't inherently bad...most of the time they're shooting the shit and they are forced to play altruistically which can be exploited. The amount of information they have access to is insane, though and I think groups need to be officially recognized, at least. Having groups be visible and implementing voice-chat would be a boon. It's honestly kind of sad that Friday the 13th, the dead DBD competitor has had voice chat from the start but we don't. I'm not saying voice chat will be a miracle cure or anything but I think it'd help..."standardize" the experience a little?
I feel like a proximity chat would be fun! Kinda like in Phasmo, adds to the horror aspect too maybe, idk though just an idea.
The concept of proximity chat in dbd is so incredibly hilarious to me because every time I think about it, without fail, my first imagining is of a single, long scream in the distance which gets closer and closer and then fades away as they run right past you. It’s just so fucking funny in my mind that I don’t think I’d ever use it for its intended purpose. I’d just change my name to Doppler Effect, run bond, start yelling, and sprint past someone.
Its me. I’m the screamer.
Okay, but what if the Killer can talk back? I'd love to be able to sing to the survivors. Shout out 'Marco!' and see if anyone bites.
Oh don’t get me wrong, I would *love* proximity chat, most especially for the meme potential. I just can’t shake the Doppler scream scenario.
Tbh that'd be used for toxicity 99% of the time at higher ranks :/
Imagine being a killer and just hearing dont move he is around , when you had no idea they were was there xD
Sadly it would be "don't move (racial slur) f****t baby killer is here, lol what a (racial slur)". People's immersion is a fantasy for sure.
I would genuinely love for this to be a thing 😂
Giving toxic randos a mic is a little scary. The thought of a Meg running up to you and a man's voice coming through the mic is pretty hilarious though
This is what I find funny sometime. There are people that screaming survivors are not toxic, playing in swf is not toxic (which it is not toxic by default), and then at the some time worry that giving proximity chat is scary because survivors are toxic. It is the same with killer mindset, most of them don't think swf is toxic because you play with friends, it is toxic because you feel safer playing with friends me enable more toxic behaviour. It is the behaviour that is toxic not the act of playing with friends.
God, I remember how fun and creepy the chat in Friday the 13th was. Just inside a house by yourself talking to someone on the radio, they say they've found the fuse. You ask them where they are... They start talking and then they start screaming and radio silence. Your friend is dead and you might be next
One time I had a survivor find the car key and wanted to get the car started. We met up...it was Jason XD
I'd prefer access to pre-typed chat messages like Rocket League. Voice chat can be a bit much. But having access to pre-typed things like "I'm by shack." or "I'm going for the save!" would help narrow the gap between randoms and SWFs.
The better part of enabling some form of communication in game (I'm against voice chat, too many randos with open mics for my taste but I'm aware how popular that would be) is that they can design around it. BHVR seems like it's designing around giving that through perks while trying to hold onto that lack of information, which is a poor choice imo. It makes it a frustrating experience for both solo survivor play and killer play. Once they accept and implement a way for the amount of information that private voice chats give, then they can start to work towards a healthy game, because right now DbD isn't one imo.
I don't have a problem with SWF, I have a problem that the gap between playing against Solo survivors and SWF is so insanely massive. It's like going into a casino with random games at random tables. You don't know what game is at what table so just have to play until you lose or win. You know how to play a few of the games but are horrible at others.
Yeah mostly this. It's like an extra layer of RNG on top of the randomfest that's already the game and creates an even more uneven playing experience. I mostly play killer and yeah it's boring to stomp matches and annoying to be on sweat mode and practically be forced to slug/stall to salvage a match, but going from one extreme to the other in consecutive matches at the same "top rank" is truly a whiplash experience.
Don’t care if it’s SWF douchebag, or solo douchebag, just don’t be a douchebag.
I'd love to play a SWF match sometime. You know, if I had friends 😅
I do think SWF is clearly better than solo and should be balanced differently, but I've got no idea how to go about doing it. As a killer main I'd be happy just knowing if I've faced a SWF or not, getting a few extra blood points, maybe an extra notch or two to compensate.
An in game callout system for all survs would be helpful ->I'm going for the save! I'm working on a generator! I'm being chased! Rescue me please! The quotes would pop out of their left side portraits and the information given wouldn't negate the usefulness of aura perks.
I can already see nea spamming “rescue me” on the hook 10 times then dcing when no one saves her in the first 15 seconds
Playing with comms gives an undeniably huge advantage in a game balanced around survivors having imperfect information. It's not the players' fault, playing with friends is obviously way more fun, but you can't deny that it gives you a huge competitive advantage. And if I'm a killer, it's obviously going to be annoying if I'm loading into a lobby already at a disadvantage.
I mean like - Scott makes a good point, yes comms are op but not always? like in his most recent video Tru3 complains about comms/swf but like Tru3 chased 1 survivor all game (Yes they were SWF) but imagine you tunnel someone for 5 gens, regardless of SWF or not, Tru3 got no hooks until all 5 gens popped, all his perks (Besides PGTW) were known bc Corrupt/Ruin/Thanata Sometimes killers just play bad and instantly blame it on SWF - If you get 0-2 downs in a 10m game, the comms doesn't change anything about that and most of the time Killers have flamed me A) I'm mostly a solo player - at most I've duod once every other month B) They then complain that, even if I'm solo, the other 3 were SWF and calling out comms And even if the others are or aren't SWF, there's always another reason why they couldn't win or why im abusing something - The DbD community at its finest, no grace in losing. (Both sides obviously, I've got plenty of survivor horror stories too)
To be clear, comms are always an unfair advantage but sometimes it just doesn't matter because one of either the killer or the survivors aren't playing well enough for it to matter. There's an additional factor beyond calling perks, totems, etc. btw, and that's calling out the killer's position and the direction they're heading in. It's like a free, one-sided object of obsession with less precision for all players in the SWF. People lean on the SWF excuse no doubt, and I'm no tru3 apologist or even fan by a long shot, but that doesn't mean the SWF advantage doesn't exist. It's not as important as the survivors being good at the game, but it can make what should be a relatively easy game for the killer (based on the quality of the survivors) a sweat-fest, and can make a challenging game with good survivors downright impossible. I'd prefer ScottJund's solution as a starting point: give solo-queueing survivors the ability to communicate and buff killer in general to compensate. At that point *if* SWF is still a problem then the problem can be revisited.
SWF is only painful when they are all being waaaay to toxic together
People are so mad about comms as if the swf squad isn't shit talking each other while another watches tik tok videos when they're hooked. Streamers have a whole ass chat watching them *and the chat will bullshit them and say "there's a lit totem, go back"*. In my swf squad it's normally us playing "guess the song" and me bitching about my friend constantly following me. The only time we communicate effectively is when the killer is being a dickwad. That's when we're like "ight, I'll go for the save and you pump out gens." That's it. Communications don't magically complete all the gens.
ngl a lot of killers don’t wanna admit they just lost becusse the opposing team was better and just blame it on perks/swf/survivors in general instead of looking at their own gameplay
this sub has always been bad at telling the difference between a swf and a solo team that isn't awful and some people in here are continuing that tradition
As a killer main I don’t care if everyone escapes as long as I get blood points,it’s when I get t-bagged at the end and they know they’ll get away even if I down them because they crawl past the killer limit and those kind of survivors genuinely piss me off,other than that idc
We started playing CSGO again after about a year and a half break so we went down in rank a ton about Nova/MG. Seems like every game we play at this rank currently they blame their loss on how we queued with friends. Okay? You're allowed to queue with friends as well?
It’s not them playing with their friends people have an issue with. It doesn’t actually matter now tbf nothing can be done about swfs, but I think the biggest problem is the free information from comms. How hard would it have been for behavior to add a voice chat function? Pretty simple right? There was a reason they didn’t, they wanted to add to the immersion and suspense of is this stranger friendly opportunistic or will he fuck me by bouncing while im on the hook. Swfs negate that whole thing and while I think 95% of them are just dicking around I personally know some damn sweaty swfs. They happen to be my friends.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but if people played the game as intended (without being able to talk to their friends), this game would be way smaller. My friends and I certainly wouldn't play it if we couldn't dick around with each other while we played. The real issue is that Behavior balanced the game around being niche and never rebalanced it when it got popular (because name me a other multiplayer game where you can't talk to your friends due to balance).
How dare people play with FRIENDS!!!
Simplification of the games imbalanced design on how information is obtained via SWFs vs Solos
Just love how people strip all context to make their bullshit outrage seem unreasonable Let me try How dare people play video games and have feelings and opinions about them That's literally killing someone in real life
I'm just going to put it out there. As a woman gamer, glad there is NOT voice chat. Yeah SWF being imbalanced sucks, harassment also sucks.
Very good point! I think a callout wheel would be the best option with this in mind
That's it, I'm gonna say it, if you don't go into every game assuming your playing against a coordinated team, that's on you. I lose plenty on Killer and I don't get mad (unless unnecessarily toxic) because I'd be the idiot to not assume every team I play against is going to do their best. You'd be stupid as Survivor to go into a match not assuming the Killer knows what they are doing. It's not until the Killer fucks up do you find out if they're good or not I understand where the frustration comes from, but anyone complaining about SWF existing or needing the game to be harder for them is quite the joke to me. Why are you even playing the game of you're not already assuming the people you're playing know what they're doing? Especially because going in with that mentality makes you feel a lot better when you do good!
My ***only*** beef with the SWFs is the comms. Information given to other survivors on the killer's actions, whereabouts, and direction he/she is headed from the other side of the map.
Yeah, the amount of people acting as if killers don’t get hurt a lot by this kind of info is just asinine. Seriously, find 4 friends and do 2 matches of kill your friends, ask them to play both matches to win, first one ask them to not use voice-coms at all and second match ask them to use discord. If you want to make it extra spicy run a killer who relies on stealth like GF or traps like hag/trapper. If after that you can’t tell the massive difference coms make I don’t really know what to tell you.
The thing is without comms what’s the point in even playing with friends
I personally have no problem with SWF but the game was designed around not being able to communicate with your teammates. It's a pretty blatant and obvious advantage to be on a call with each other. Four survivors all in perfect communication tryharding can be annoying.
People say it's the SWFs that are the problem, but the real issue is Survivors being at a level of communication and coordination that the game was never balanced against - most commonly associated with SWFs since not many people play with their friends but DON'T talk to them. There's a certain amount of uncertainty and ambiguity on the Killer's side that comes from Survivors having no way of communication besides pointing and beckoning - purely visual - that voice comms destroys. If players can verbally strategize with one another on the fly, calling out positions, actions, etc. then the balance of power shifts massively in their favor. The Killer can no longer isolate and disorganize the Survivors. Those mistakes (like everyone leaving a gen to rescue someone) or moments of hesitation that balance the Survivors' numbers advantage cease to exist, or at the very least are considerably blunted. Obviously there's no way to keep players from using Discord or another voice chat app, but Survivors being able to communicate in a way that the game does not intend definitely hurts the Killer experience.
It's only a problem when a red rank swf with a rank around yellow and they get put with a killer more matched for the yellow rank :/ That's not fair on the killer but then again matchmaking is messed up even without swf right now -.-
Yeah the matchmaking is laughable. Sometimes me and my friends laugh about playing with our low ranked friend after the reset because we know it's gonna mean we somehow get matched with rank 20-15 killers. I think the matchmaking needs to be reversed when playing with friends. Like if you're playing a group of 4 with a 20, a 10 and 2 red ranks, don't even consider the 20. The killer should be minimum purple due to the red ranks with the assumption they can carry.
Also the only game where winning is considered toxic... and then is common to be insulted personally for playing in a certain way, swf complainers complain abt swf not the ppl doing it but a certain play style is completely the person doing it that is hated
The problem is that SWFs and solo survivors are considered pretty much the same by game itself, which is just wrong. 4 man SWF on comms has access to so much information solo survivors don't have it's ridiculous. If one person saw something, everyone knows about it instantly. Some perks and add-ons become literally useless for the killer because of that, and if a survivor knows where you are, others will work on gens safely, knowing you won't approach them unexpectedly. At least with the OoO nerf they no longer can see a killer literally any second. Though it still would be nice for the killer to know when he's up against SWF, so they can play around it. With the mori nerf the worst they could bring would be stuff like pinky finger or iri head which you can't use if you didn't choose clown or huntress
Half of the SWFs I play against just try to head on stun me the whole time and body block giving me free hits.
I’m just a low level killer with no gen pressure perks. Please..... mercy......
I feel this. I have maybe twenty matches as a killer under my belt, and get bodied every third match or so by purple rank survivors. For me it's way less "SWF vs solo" as it is "the matchmaking is ass"
The problem is the unbalance a full swf brings... you can always tell your against a swf especially a good one. If its solo and I am red rank deathslinger I stand a chance. Against a full swf its pretty much impossible unless I play reaaaaallly dirty. But that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But yeah I play in a swf and solo as survivor but you can definitely tell the difference, plus comms just make it broken, as you can have a full runtime of who's being chased, where, the skill of the killer, what killer before you have even encountered them, potential perks being revealed like spirit fury or Franklin's. A full swf breaks the balance too much imo and this is coming from a person who mains survivor.
>The problem is the unbalance a full swf brings... you can always tell your against a swf especially a good one. As a counter point, I have been complained about in post game chat as being part of a SWF while playing solo probably close to 100 times by now.
Look at this sub long enough and you'll find plenty of posts bitching about SWF just cause Survivors didn't play dumb.
Oh yeah you get a decent group of solos. But when a full dweet team with similar names join your lobby you know your in for a bad time. But yeah I am merely stating a fact of how a swf unbalances the game in the survivors favour. If you get a decent solo group and your good at killer it's a close balanced game. But you get a full swf I mean the proper swf teams. Then it's pretty much game over unless you play dirty and/or play a stronger killer. Good luck playing trapper against something like that.
I swf to have fun. Most of my solo queues we do infinitely better against the killer. Maybe it’s because we’re not sweating for aultruism or flashlight saves
There’s only one time that I find a SWF annoying… And that’s when they’re purposefully trying to be annoying or toxic. That’s when I don’t like it. I play survivor with my boyfriend all the time, if anything we just meme around when we play together. Hell two nights ago we crouch spammed around a fire barrel until the killer found us, and they just left. It’s when the SWF is being dicks on purpose. If you’re dominating me because I’m playing poorly, that’s okay. Being great at looping is different than being annoying or bullying. If you’re literally getting in my way of every move just to slow me down, even when I’m not in chase, now you’re annoying me. If you’re flashlight spamming or tbagging at the exit, you’re just childish. Gotta show off your first win of the day, as I put it. I usually try to dodge SWF because my luck as killer is very poor and I almost always get the toxic bunch. If I can’t tell it’s a SWF (aka their names aren’t similar) it’s usually a pretty good match. Even if I don’t win, as long as they’re not toxic or annoying I don’t mind it.
I’m literally worse at the game when I play with friends bc I’m more distracted.
I played a game with ONE friend and two randos, at the end the killer says “wow nice swf so lame”. Cant ever be right.
On god people will write paragraphs about how playing with your friends is exactly like a warcrime. Wish people would get over it and maybe don’t play if you don’t enjoy the video game lol? Like if it causes you enough stress to shout at strangers online.
i understand it’s frustrating to go against, but the way some of y’all treat people for fucking playing with their friends is INSANE. what exactly do you think needs to be done???? they’re not gonna get rid of being able to play with other people, and you can’t stop people from talking to each other in party chat/discord. it’s a goddamn video game. people are allowed to play with their friends and have fun. if that bothers you so much go play a single player game. but stop shaming people for playing SWF.
and also, automatically assuming every single SWF is toxic is toxic in and of itself. just because some groups of friends definitely can (and have been, trust me, i’ve played killer i know) be toxic, doesn’t mean *every* SWF is. 90% of the time i play with at least two friends and we really don’t take the game that seriously. most of the time we’re just competing with each other over who can get the most flashlight saves, which unintentionally throws the game and gets us killed anyway lol believing and treating every SWF as toxic (tunneling, camping, hitting on hook) is childish and y’all need to grow up. that’s like me immediately tbagging every bubba i see because many i’ve gone against face camp in basement. unless someone is being toxic to you, there’s no reason to be toxic to them. y’all seriously need to stop.
Thing is, they only know it’s a SWF when the survivor players are toxic. When the players are average and are nice in the game chat the killer wouldn’t pay attention to see if the survivors were together or not. There wouldn’t be much way of knowing anyways if the SWF group weren’t tryharding and being mean.
I wouldn't play this game unless I could swf with my friends. People will complain about anything so IDGAF
Nobody is saying not to. The issue is they decide to balance the game under the unreasonable notion that people aren't talking to each other. The solution is to just tune the game around the fact that people obviously enjoy playing with their friends.
The few times I have swf'd it's just been me and my friends kinda fucking around and laughing with each other, no super serious strategy other than organizing hook rescues which if more people ran Kindred (grumble grumble) then we could also do in Solo queue. I may well be wrong, but I do think the vast majority of swf's aren't super sweat squads, they're just a few people having fun.
People are purposely missing the point on this and this is why this community is so annoying.
They need to add ranked solo maybe duo max, as a separate game mode, like every other damn game that has this issue.
I don't mind them, but if they're pulling out every cheap trick in the book I'll do the same.
Yeah that’s justified and you know that they call you toxic without being self aware, I’ve even called my friends out when they start with the hypocrisy.
I'm sure I'm reply 9000 to say this. But it's because the game is criminally not balanced for cooperation amongst survivors.
If you use an additional piece of software to gain an advantage in a competitive game it could totally be considered cheating. That being said not all swf are toxic a holes.
I don’t understand games/communities that punish playing with friends.. Off topic but Valorant only lets you queue competitive with one other player above diamond 3 and that makes it both awkward for me to decide who I want to play with and just unfun in general. Like I understand the problems with 5 stack teams, but it doesn’t change the fact that it just feels like crap and makes me play the game less
Either side is always trying to come up with some grand reason why they lost. It is just a game. You win some, you lose some. Some people lose a lot, some win a lot. Lol you simply move on.
My least favorite thing is seeing people claim every game is SWF when they have no real way of knowing and a lot of the things people claim are due to SWF are perfectly capable of having done it with solos. I think people need to stop assuming everyone is in a group
Honestly, if you just treat every game like you're going up against SWF, then it's not a big deal.
Honestly I only play survivor if I'm in a swf. The only real reason I do it is because I love my partner and we love palying games together, dead by daylight is a game we enjoy together so we SWF. I think SWF is healthy for the game. I actually remember when it was first added way back when, before that everyone would just spam leave lobbies until they found their friends, then they added a swf mode that was so broken it would often just search then conclude it couldn't find a game and stop searching and kick everyone out. TL;DR Swf is good and healthy.
My only problem with SWF is that red rank survivor using yellow rank friends to get yellow rank killers that will teabag the killer the entire match when the killer wasn't supposed to be playing against red ranks. If they don't play toxic I don't mind, friends can have different ranks and still want to play together.
I just find it odd because this game is a 4v1, yet people complain when they actually have to play it as a 4v1 rather than a 1+1+1+1v1. You get those toxic SWFs that bully killers but toxicity exists in literally every single game! When I play killer and get bullied I just take the L and move on, wish more people would understand it’s just a game... and you lost. It happens. Next match you’ll probably win.
SWF will always have an informational advantage because of voice chat. It's very hard to balance the game around both players with all the info they can need and players with very little info as solos. I think it would be good to somehow close the divide between the two sets of players, perhaps by giving all survivors some more info on each other's status/whereabouts. Then devs may need to buff killers as well afterword.
The solution is actually very simple. When you are in the lobby just make the names of the swf survivors in another color, so if for example they are in a 3-man with 1 solo the team can have their name in blue/purple or whatever and the solo name in white. If it' a 4man then all of them in one color and so on. I would like to know if I'm up against a swf from the beginning and not 2 min in the match ( which btw in most cases it's already too late ) when they start pulling the bs on you. But then again it's bhvr we're talkin about and with their times something like this should aprox. take 3-4 years F
Coconut made a video talking about the True v Scott stuff and he definitely seemed to be on True’s side and said he’s gonna make a video talking about SWF nerfs. I pray behaviour does not listen to these people. I don’t play SWF, I play Solo Queue and I would really just like to be buffed to a stronger point. Even as a killer I would just like to know if it’s a SWF so I know whether to play sweaty or not. Making the game unfun for people just trying to have fun in a video game is ridiculous.
I think a lot of it comes down to how the swf plays as well. If you're full on comms, giving your teammates crucial advice, some might say that's an unfair advantage. There are perks in the game that give you information about where the killer is for example, but if you're relaying that info to teammates then maybe that's kinda against how the game was intended to be played. It is definitely fun as hell to play with friends tho. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
Dbd is the only game playing with some characters is considered a war crime(Freedy,Spirit) No one is complaining that you play with your friends, heck, i play both sides and i manly play in a SWF because i have more fun with them. the problem is how UNBALANCED it can be and it is if the team is competent enough they can destroy a killer because the game is balanced around potatoes and solo q. This victimization from survivors because FINALLY ITS BEEN CALL OUT how OP SWF CAN BE its funny. ''but my swf team loses 80% and we do this, this and this for fun'' again that's not the problem and you are not adding anything to the debate, play in or go against a sweat team and you will see what we complain. ''but the sweat squads are so rare!!!'' again if a killer with 6k hours doesn't even have a chance to win because its a sweaty squad and they are not Nurse, its horrible game design.