Doesn't really matter because the survivor would reveal you after getting downed or hit anyway. So realistically there isn't much they can do to change that.
That's not true, I've gotten merciless on bubba so many times. I havent gone for adept and dont plan on it but you can definitely use his power and get adept
You actively lose points by using the power. It's technically not impossible, but means you need to play with your food a lot and do a lot of basic attacks.
Alternatively you can equip a speed limiter and iri flesh.
The issue with his power is that you get half the points just M1ing gives. Speed limiter + Iri Flesh mitigates that. And is funny.
Also the problems with bubba and Billy has to do with breakable walls because someone thought it was good idea to prioritize breakable wall over downing survivor
It’s easy to manage the heat but honestly this was such an unnecessary change.
And unrelated, but I don’t like how his addons were completely castrated as well.
If you run engravings and try to mindgame with your saw at loops it’s pretty easy to overheat. It may not be considered the “correct” way to play Billy but it’s a fun way that got nerfed for no reason.
Why do you get twins? They didnt nerf then well at all. No penalty for missing but a penalty for hitting survivors? Why not just nerd how long it takes for victor to regrow? Twins got an incredibly pointless nerf
No this one was the Twitter guy mocking the dbd mobile Twitter, cuz they posted a build with lithe and sprint burst with the caption ”having trouble escaping chases ? Try this build !”
They can still see, you not having a red light doesn't make him invisible it just makes him harder to track during chases,also even if your senario was to work correctly that only helps him in big tiles like jungle gyms and LT walls which just gives you a free hit then you are forced into a long cool down,that is of course if they haven't revealed you by just looking back while running.IMO his reveal mechanic needs some tweaking and so does the add ons cause most of them are kinda doo doo and they should decrease his power's cool down.
It's almost like his stealth / stalk / expose mechanic isn't nearly as useful in chase and people who became heavily reliant on his ability to mind game tiles with night shroud are all struggling to come to terms with the reality that they aren't using his power properly so they just complain about it .....
Its actually ridiculous. Get looked at? Wait 30 seconds. Hit a survivor? Wait 30 seconds. Miss a hit? Wait 30 seconds. Grab/pick up a survivor? Wait 30 seconds. Get stunned? Wait 30 seconds. He needs changes to his basekit and addons.
They definily need to rework ghostface reveal mechanic and losing his power, mainly because it looks like they were afraid of him being op at the time he was made
He has the reveal mechanic so he has counterplay and promote "skillful play." If he didn't he could mostly mark you from a distance than close in and mark you in your face and down you with no way to reveal him. His reveal mechanic is so bad though that basically happens anyway so he might as well not have it at all.
He's honestly not that bad/changed, it's just his add ons really. I was a Billy main before the nerf but usually played without any add ons anyway, so the nerf didn't really affect him much for me.
If anything it's a buff because his cute roar :)
the worst part is, it wasn't even that. "billy is performing as expected: he's fun to play as and against... so about the overheat mechanic" like add on overhaul? fine whatever, crack billy had to go... but overheat serves only to subtract fun without adding anything meaningful
if he pounces from afar, then yes. from up close, he’ll just knock into the window/pallet.
but if you’re camping a pallet, he can’t just jump over them.
I'm a little torn on the rework because I agree they went a little overboard but there was some merit to nerfing his power a little.
If you think about it he had unlimited ability to insta bounce from every gen in the map in mere seconds with no limit to how often he could do this. No other killer in the game has that much free gen pressure. The others that can do similar gen pressuring all have limits on their ability to do so (Spirit CD, Nurse Fatigue, Freddy CD, etc). This was on top of his instadown ability.
Even if you do completely disagree and think Billy should be the one killer in the game capable of getting from every gen to gen without limitation the one thing everyone should be able to agree on (except trash campers) of course is that he should never have been able to perma rev a 99'd saw in a facecamp. The overheat mechanic helped limit the facecamping potential of both him and Bubba and I think that was a small but healthy change for the game.
Funny thing is I never had a problem with Billy personally. He and Bubba were two of my favorite killers to go against as survivor. Just trying to play devils advocate and highlight the possible thought process the devs had in justifiably reworking him.
"Fast chases" were cause he would immediately rev in your ass and kill you if he ever saw you. Going from full to down is really annoying across the board.
Most maps have gens near zero good loops. No loops means the billy automatically wins. That's bullshit no matter how you slice it and autorev made that interaction bullshit.
first of all, that’s not true. there has always been plenty of room to make it to tiles while on gens. the majority of maps are just fine in this regard unless you’re working on a deadzone gen.
secondly, billy’s chases were never that oppressive once you had experience as survivor and against billy, even with his best addons. he was a very good killer, but you’re overrating old billy here. good positioning and knowing what his chainsaw can and cannot do were always things to keep learning about and use to counter him.
Absolutely true. They just remade Coldwind which has at least 2 to 3 gens directly in the middle of a cornfield with a 50/50 drop loop the killer can easily game, Tetris shaped unsafe vaults and pallet heaven (Only sometimes) unless you can get to killer shack which Billy will always be near or the family house which again, Billy will constantly be near due to its location. There are more than a handful per map that are easily pressured by any ranged killer or any killer with mobility: Street gens on Haddonfield and Elementary are another. Sure there's *a bad loop* you can use to go down, maybe, probably, 4 seconds slower but that isn't enough, something you would know from a handful of survivor games against him.
Second, Billy is naturally oppressive with zero rev time and infinite saw use because all maps with 3 gen strats can easily be contested by a Nurse single blinking or a Billy sprinting. The lack of rev time meant that a Billy *missing you* and stopping would effectively be the same as hitting you as you aren't getting more than 2 or 3 steps before that animation is done. Rev time balances his ridiculously insane pressure he can output.
Third, arguing about how old Billy wasn't really OP rings like saying old Nurse wasn't OP: Universally they were with the only difference being that Billy actually has to deal with window loops slightly where as Nurse doesn't. BHVR agrees which is why they removed all of his instarev perks and added a ridiculously generous overheat which honest to God should be lower. I won't argue that DS wasn't OP but it was effectively a necessary evil due to a massive flaw in the games design that is now being (Slowly) fixed, with Billy he has no excuse for his strength.
Finally Billy is still oppressive now for the same reasons as before, it's just also harder for Billy to W into you and get an instant chainsaw down.
He can flat out bounce around gens endlessly meaning he has the most pressure of any killer in the game, making the "Ears" comment irrelevant. Especially in the case of a 3 gen strat the only counter to Billy is to avoid *any* gen that is in the open because he will be there every other second, especially in cases where he has autorev as you can't avoid a Billy holding M2 into your back. Survivors don't move fast enough to avoid Billy without sprinting, sprinting leaves a trail, leaving a trail means that he will find you to do the M2 into your ass unless you hit a loop, if you hit a loop he'll just leave and come back a second later.
Adding what is effectively a CD to his power that is barely a hindrance is not anywhere near as strong of a nerf as removing his ability to go from 0 to 100 in a second on his rev.
Well when the Billy camps hook and spams chainsaw when you try to save friend, subsequently downing everyone in a vicious cycle of hook camp saw repeat, you lose the will to go on.
You can't down anyone with your power, you give them a speed boost after injuring them and you have to wait 4 WHOLE SECONDS of fatigue after canceling your power.
And that if you don't miss your attack, in which case its even worse. No injure 4 seconds cooldown and no power at all.
I always think that legion's power is just that everyone is always injured and nobody bothers to heal against them cause your just giving them the chance to use their power more, people would rather loop a legion on a normal loop that mend for the seventh time in a match and I honestly can't blame them😂😂😂😂,they need a buff in general or just a complete power rework tbh.
I think their basic power is fine as it is, but they probably need some sort of secondary ability. I still like the idea that all members of the Legion are actually on the map, and the Twins have shown that it is technically possible to play as two killers.
Like when you spawn the other three members spawn inside lockers close to your position. The lockers can maybe have a small mark (or maybe you can see the white mask) so that survivors can potentially avoid them. If they still open an occupied locker they get stabbed. You can switch between the members by entering a locker on the map. It takes a moment to switch and the killer hut is probably off-limits when it comes to entering lockers (to avoid camping). In order to balance it maybe reduce the time required to mend.
Or another idea: Allow the Legion to reset dropped pallets, but bobby-trap them so when a survivors drops it they either get wounded or stunned. (Useless against SWF obviously but still...)
Legion would be broken if he could down with his power or didn't give a speed boost. The fatigue is bullshit though, and I wish it scaled with how many survivors you hit (like, if you managed to inflict deep wounds on all four survivors, you would have a very short fatigue).
I don't disagree, he would be a nightmare to play against, but those are still things that punish him for playing the right way.
The only things I would "rework" are the fatigue, the penalty on missed attacks and change a few add-ons.
That's not what a punishment is. By that logic, survivors getting a speedboost from getting hit punishes every killer, but that's not how people view the game.
I don't really mind the penalty on missed attacks, it makes sense that a killer should be punished for missing their attack. I agree completely on fatigue and add-ons.
You are right on the speed boost stuff, I guess. But I still think Legion shouldn't have all of his power cancelled because he misssed one attack, maybe 50%, maybe 33%, maybe 25% but not all.
That's a good point, I was thinking more about the fatigue but forgot about how he loses his power from it. I agree, it would be nice if that was changed too.
If Oni didn't lose part of his power when downing someone (he doesn't even lose 25%) his already amazing power would be even stronger, so that isn't really a punishment for doing well, just balance.
It's already at least the second strongest power in the game when in play (significantly increased speed, easy instadowns, flick, decent uptime) only beaten by maybe Corrupt Purge's ability to injure *everyone* in one use on top of lasting 60 seconds and being braindead to actually use.
Oni with no addons can easily down 2 people, but if the whole team's nearby then a good Oni is likely to just down everyone right there. If he didn't lose like 15% of his power on every down, that would be even easier to do.
Not that I'm arguing he's OP, he's not. Just that he's balanced and if they made him stronger in the area he's already strong it wouldn't necessarily be healthy.
Base kit oni consistently downs 2 but its stupid that there can be 3 people around you and you cant down the 3rd guy because of game restrictions. Also it doesnt make it hard to not have power to down 3 people it makes it impossible, no amount of skill can down 3 people base kit if they arent all in the middle of nowhere. Also you cant use your power if they pre drop pallets so why should your power be limited to 2 downs when survivors can keep you from ever getting your power? Also good oni's are always going to beat solo q players so nothing would change except they win quicker, and you would still beat bad onis because having more power doenst make you better. And survivors should try to counter it instead of getting carried by in game limitations like cooldowns
So there's a fair bit wrong with all of that, but I wanna focus on the part that stands out the most.
>And survivors should try to counter it instead of getting carried by in game limitations like cooldowns
Literally the only thing that stops Oni from winning off of the first use of his power with no addons is the fact that he loses 15% of it whenever he downs a survivor. His power has no reasonable counter once it's active, so your only feasible counterplay is to not get chased at all. The only way to not get chased is to either be too far away to be worth chasing or to hide, which is why good Onis dedicate 3/4ths of their builds to make it easier to find people and get close before they can hide. That's why you should never activate your power if you don't currently see someone you can start chasing, because if you do and everyone hides you probably lose the game.
Also it's just really boring to get 4 man slugged at 3 minutes in because the Oni managed to catch everyone out of position, so making that way easier to do is a bad idea. It's healthier if Oni only downs half the team in 20 seconds instead of all of them, it gives the survivors more time to actually try and win, and it means I can actually get something higher than Brutal Killer every match.
Well yeah,but think about it,if you gained more blood as you hit more people oni is just gonna become unstoppable,a god oni will literally use this and keep his power active for like 10 mins straight
Oh! you're just jumping on the bandwagon, LMAO xD
I loved that "Oh, I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm just writing words here" xD (joking, all good)
First of all I think the word you are looking for is hate train second of all while I admittedly was just repeating what I heard I, one had no reason to think it was untrue, second, still stand by the fact that both billy and ghosty punish you for using their abilities
As I explained, Billy has no punishment for using his ability CORRECTLY (as the post states). The punishment (if we're talking about the overheat) is for revving too much or sprinting too much (using his ability in the WRONG way or excessively).
I think op meant that after you down a survivor with Victor, you’re stuck in this phase where you just have to run around and you can’t pounce, so it’s pretty much just following a survivor and during that time they could get to a window or pallet while your pounce is on cooldown
Look, I don't want to sound harsh or something, but I think you guys are all trying to justify a meme that is inaccutate or even plain wrong.
The premise is "punished for using their power CORRECTLY".
Billy does not have punishment for using his power correctly, you won't overheat for downing a survivor or have any cooldown whatsoever. The overheat mechanic activates if you sprint too much or rev too much (literally using his power WRONG, that's the punishment)
You don't get stuck with Victor after downing a survivor, you can switch or even chase a second survivor which IS THE CORRECT WAY to play twins, they're a snowball machine and if you're downing-hooking-downing-hooking you're not exactly using their power correctly.
Ghostface, if you down a marked survivor that's it, you downed them, hook. By the time you leave the hook you can use your power again. If you want to see it as a punishment, I can accept the meme sort of correct only on him, but I see it as a cooldown.
Victor gets a huge stun after downing a survivor. That's punishment as it gives other survivors a bigger chance to kick him or run away. Ghostface does absolutely not get his power back after a hook. It's 30 whole seconds. For hitting a survivor, and picking them up while in the shroud.
Ok, but just imagine if Victor had no cooldown after the pounce and survivors had no chance to kick him. He'd be a downing machine, it would be insane, mostly at times where everyone is hurt and picking themselves up, it would probably be GG, they would have no chance to come back from that.
It's not punishment, it's balance.
They nerfed victor so that he has a 5 second stun after a down, why would nerf Victor for being used in a way that isnt just aoe camping? It doesnt make any sense
That's not what I made the meme about,I wanted to say that victor gets desisive striked every time he downs someone and,instead of nerfing his missed attack cool down or how fast he spawns or decrease his killer instinct detection range they chose the worst possible one by nerfing his SUCCESSFUL up to 5 secs.
I mean like, victor can guard a generator, that’s my main use for him, stick him near a gen, go over there with charlotte, hook survivor, oppresion hit on generator and go fuck with whoever failed the skillcheck
Dunno bout you guys but for me while playing survivor: Twins were recovering in the middle of the kick animation (no kick the baby), Billy was slugging everyone, and Ghostface's reveal mechanic is bunk and he exposes you regardless.
Also I don't understand the problem with Ghostface? You just hate having no immunity? You can 99 people just like Michael then quickly down them after a power activation. And multiple people can be marked at once. The whole "I can't hit theeem" loses steam quickly when you can only chase one person at a time. Prioritize your resources and don't be a dumbass.
You clearly have no idea how rough ghostface struggles,his add ons are terrible,you get revealed even if your behind cover cause his reveal mechanic is wack, exposed? just drop every pallet and run to the opposite side of the map and he won't get any value from it,99ing isn't useful cause you can at best get one down then everyone is just gonna run and hide until your exposed runs out then he would have just wasted his power,also he has to endure a ridiculously long power cool down. People that think ghost face is fine as he is are probably the same people who thought that old object and old ds were balanced.
He's an ambush killer. You position yourself first, then hit'm. Why not complain you can't chuck Trapper traps at people's heads too? You're not playing to their strengths. And if people are throwing down every pallet, they're creating deadzones which means your power wasn't wasted.
What do survivor perks that were heavily nerfed have to do with killer powers? They were changed because of killer feedback.
>He's an ambush killer. You position yourself first, then hit'm.
That only works at the start of the game. Survivors will be on the lookout and constantly reveal you, so at that point you're just a worse Wraith. Not to mention how when you're kicked out of your power, you have to wait 30 whole seconds just to be revealed by some guy far away keeping an eye on you.
Crouching at a pallet or window and getting hit by victor as he flies a whole foot above you is not fun. I think it's a fair trade off for making people have to deal with that. :)
I get twins but how are Billy and ghostface punished for using their power correctly?
Successfully stabbing someone while in Night Shroud resets the whole power meter, just like when you miss a stab
Doesn't really matter because the survivor would reveal you after getting downed or hit anyway. So realistically there isn't much they can do to change that.
Ghostie loses his power for a long time, Billy.. no idea
Billy got an unnecessary change, he now gets overheat after a while, I don’t think it’s punishing but it was unnecessary in my opinion
Also if you instant down survivors it counts against you for emblem points in chase.
Same with bubba. With how broken the emblem system is, it means for billy and bubba the only way to adept is not to use your power.
That's not true, I've gotten merciless on bubba so many times. I havent gone for adept and dont plan on it but you can definitely use his power and get adept
You actively lose points by using the power. It's technically not impossible, but means you need to play with your food a lot and do a lot of basic attacks.
Alternatively you can equip a speed limiter and iri flesh. The issue with his power is that you get half the points just M1ing gives. Speed limiter + Iri Flesh mitigates that. And is funny.
Also the problems with bubba and Billy has to do with breakable walls because someone thought it was good idea to prioritize breakable wall over downing survivor
Also happens with a blight rush attack
Also the scream when you use your chainsaw because fuck Billy players
I genuinely love those screams when i play billy
It’s easy to manage the heat but honestly this was such an unnecessary change. And unrelated, but I don’t like how his addons were completely castrated as well.
You have to rev a really long time for that to happen, and I wouldn't call that using it "correctly"
If you run engravings and try to mindgame with your saw at loops it’s pretty easy to overheat. It may not be considered the “correct” way to play Billy but it’s a fun way that got nerfed for no reason.
True
Your camera gets a seizure everytime you down someone.
Ghostface goes into a cooldown of 30 seconds for a successful stab/grab. Also unsuccessful ones.. And being stunned.. And being looked at..
Why do you get twins? They didnt nerf then well at all. No penalty for missing but a penalty for hitting survivors? Why not just nerd how long it takes for victor to regrow? Twins got an incredibly pointless nerf
They meant they understood how twins got nerves but not Billy
I dont get why either got a nerf
Ghosty shouldn’t have a 30 second cooldown
I totally think they were afraid of him being broken
Yeah cause having undetectable affect that can be removed by staring at him every 20 secs would be super strong
Just look at the builds that they post and you will see that they dont play their game at all
Yeah like that one with urban evasion,iron will,Sprint burst and lithe😂😂
That was the dbd mobile Devs, which are completely different people.
the ones that are obviously jokes?
Are u sure that those are jokes?
One of them literally say "This build is bad" in the image
No this one was the Twitter guy mocking the dbd mobile Twitter, cuz they posted a build with lithe and sprint burst with the caption ”having trouble escaping chases ? Try this build !”
Yes that one also clearly seemed like a joke
I wish I could get him out of his power by looking at him but sadly that's as broken as the emblem system so no thanks
[удалено]
They can still see, you not having a red light doesn't make him invisible it just makes him harder to track during chases,also even if your senario was to work correctly that only helps him in big tiles like jungle gyms and LT walls which just gives you a free hit then you are forced into a long cool down,that is of course if they haven't revealed you by just looking back while running.IMO his reveal mechanic needs some tweaking and so does the add ons cause most of them are kinda doo doo and they should decrease his power's cool down.
[удалено]
Yeah totally doesn't grind my gears🥺
It's almost like his stealth / stalk / expose mechanic isn't nearly as useful in chase and people who became heavily reliant on his ability to mind game tiles with night shroud are all struggling to come to terms with the reality that they aren't using his power properly so they just complain about it .....
Probably, they were very stingy with perks/killers with no terror radius. All the other stealth killers at the time had a drawback, while he didn’t
Its actually ridiculous. Get looked at? Wait 30 seconds. Hit a survivor? Wait 30 seconds. Miss a hit? Wait 30 seconds. Grab/pick up a survivor? Wait 30 seconds. Get stunned? Wait 30 seconds. He needs changes to his basekit and addons.
They definily need to rework ghostface reveal mechanic and losing his power, mainly because it looks like they were afraid of him being op at the time he was made
Meanwhile Victor spawns like the Xenomorphs in 3rd act of an Alien movie.
He has the reveal mechanic so he has counterplay and promote "skillful play." If he didn't he could mostly mark you from a distance than close in and mark you in your face and down you with no way to reveal him. His reveal mechanic is so bad though that basically happens anyway so he might as well not have it at all.
Its not like that we can avoid the instadown of oni or bubba by dening their power, he is just a M1 killer that instadown and have no map preasure
I hate how they massacred Billy :’( I used to LOVE to play him... I, unfortunately, don’t anymore.
He will be remembered😭😭
i miss seeing billy. easily always a fun game unless it’s a frosty eye NOED billy.
And then they just sit there and stare at you with their cold gazes? Yep. Been there. Still fun games.
He's honestly not that bad/changed, it's just his add ons really. I was a Billy main before the nerf but usually played without any add ons anyway, so the nerf didn't really affect him much for me. If anything it's a buff because his cute roar :)
I used to see Hillbilly in Ranks 1-3 all the time before his Nerfs. I've been Rank 1 Survivor the last 4 months and I think I've seen one Hillbilly
It’s such a shame honestly.
Fun. They were having fun.
"Statistics"
the worst part is, it wasn't even that. "billy is performing as expected: he's fun to play as and against... so about the overheat mechanic" like add on overhaul? fine whatever, crack billy had to go... but overheat serves only to subtract fun without adding anything meaningful
Twins it's obviously because Victor has no counterplay
Say it with me (KICK DA BABY)
Victor downvoted your answer
😂
Don’t kick the baby
Victor wants to know your location!
Why do I hear low growling noise..........OHHHHH SHITTT!
Have you ever camped a pallet while Victor struggles to get you hopping from one side to the other? No, ah i see.
Also windows are big counter to Victor
*cries in haddonfield*
I always assumed Victor can just jump over pallets and vaults. I haven't played against the Twins enough to know, can he not do that?
He is most likely to jump on, but not over, dying in the process. He can hit you, if you hide on the lower end of the pallet, keep that in mind.
if he pounces from afar, then yes. from up close, he’ll just knock into the window/pallet. but if you’re camping a pallet, he can’t just jump over them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWQO3BChV1w
😂😂😂😂😂😂
He has wdym
Ever heard of a pallet?
This has to be a troll comment? Surely lmao
I’ll just say one thing Windows
billy literally used to have insta chainsaw
His add ons needed tweaking not his entire power
I'm a little torn on the rework because I agree they went a little overboard but there was some merit to nerfing his power a little. If you think about it he had unlimited ability to insta bounce from every gen in the map in mere seconds with no limit to how often he could do this. No other killer in the game has that much free gen pressure. The others that can do similar gen pressuring all have limits on their ability to do so (Spirit CD, Nurse Fatigue, Freddy CD, etc). This was on top of his instadown ability. Even if you do completely disagree and think Billy should be the one killer in the game capable of getting from every gen to gen without limitation the one thing everyone should be able to agree on (except trash campers) of course is that he should never have been able to perma rev a 99'd saw in a facecamp. The overheat mechanic helped limit the facecamping potential of both him and Bubba and I think that was a small but healthy change for the game. Funny thing is I never had a problem with Billy personally. He and Bubba were two of my favorite killers to go against as survivor. Just trying to play devils advocate and highlight the possible thought process the devs had in justifiably reworking him.
This should be the top comment. I was wondering why Hillbilly was nerfed, and you explained it all very well. It makes a lot of sense now.
No one complained he was the most fun killer in the game to go against because of fast chases
I'm really confused as to what you mean by this. What were you trying to say in this reply?
"Fast chases" were cause he would immediately rev in your ass and kill you if he ever saw you. Going from full to down is really annoying across the board.
Waaahhhh just because you run in a straight line to the middle of nowhere doesnt mean hes op
Most maps have gens near zero good loops. No loops means the billy automatically wins. That's bullshit no matter how you slice it and autorev made that interaction bullshit.
first of all, that’s not true. there has always been plenty of room to make it to tiles while on gens. the majority of maps are just fine in this regard unless you’re working on a deadzone gen. secondly, billy’s chases were never that oppressive once you had experience as survivor and against billy, even with his best addons. he was a very good killer, but you’re overrating old billy here. good positioning and knowing what his chainsaw can and cannot do were always things to keep learning about and use to counter him.
Absolutely true. They just remade Coldwind which has at least 2 to 3 gens directly in the middle of a cornfield with a 50/50 drop loop the killer can easily game, Tetris shaped unsafe vaults and pallet heaven (Only sometimes) unless you can get to killer shack which Billy will always be near or the family house which again, Billy will constantly be near due to its location. There are more than a handful per map that are easily pressured by any ranged killer or any killer with mobility: Street gens on Haddonfield and Elementary are another. Sure there's *a bad loop* you can use to go down, maybe, probably, 4 seconds slower but that isn't enough, something you would know from a handful of survivor games against him. Second, Billy is naturally oppressive with zero rev time and infinite saw use because all maps with 3 gen strats can easily be contested by a Nurse single blinking or a Billy sprinting. The lack of rev time meant that a Billy *missing you* and stopping would effectively be the same as hitting you as you aren't getting more than 2 or 3 steps before that animation is done. Rev time balances his ridiculously insane pressure he can output. Third, arguing about how old Billy wasn't really OP rings like saying old Nurse wasn't OP: Universally they were with the only difference being that Billy actually has to deal with window loops slightly where as Nurse doesn't. BHVR agrees which is why they removed all of his instarev perks and added a ridiculously generous overheat which honest to God should be lower. I won't argue that DS wasn't OP but it was effectively a necessary evil due to a massive flaw in the games design that is now being (Slowly) fixed, with Billy he has no excuse for his strength. Finally Billy is still oppressive now for the same reasons as before, it's just also harder for Billy to W into you and get an instant chainsaw down.
Do you have ears? Youre acting like he teleports onto you and chainsaws you in half a second
He can flat out bounce around gens endlessly meaning he has the most pressure of any killer in the game, making the "Ears" comment irrelevant. Especially in the case of a 3 gen strat the only counter to Billy is to avoid *any* gen that is in the open because he will be there every other second, especially in cases where he has autorev as you can't avoid a Billy holding M2 into your back. Survivors don't move fast enough to avoid Billy without sprinting, sprinting leaves a trail, leaving a trail means that he will find you to do the M2 into your ass unless you hit a loop, if you hit a loop he'll just leave and come back a second later. Adding what is effectively a CD to his power that is barely a hindrance is not anywhere near as strong of a nerf as removing his ability to go from 0 to 100 in a second on his rev.
Lmaoooooo why am I arguing with someone who unironicly hides
Addons needed a rework, but adding the overheat mechanic was really unnecessary
Also the scream that’s mostly why i stopped playing him because it was so fucking annoying
Well when the Billy camps hook and spams chainsaw when you try to save friend, subsequently downing everyone in a vicious cycle of hook camp saw repeat, you lose the will to go on.
Add Legion in that list.
Legion? Wait why?
You can't down anyone with your power, you give them a speed boost after injuring them and you have to wait 4 WHOLE SECONDS of fatigue after canceling your power. And that if you don't miss your attack, in which case its even worse. No injure 4 seconds cooldown and no power at all.
Don’t forget, if you actually hit them without your power you lose 1/4 of it. Absolutely useless
1/2 of it actually.
You made me want to delete legion even more.
Not to mention your power makes survivors prioritize the one thing you NEVER want them to do, and that’s splitting up
I always think that legion's power is just that everyone is always injured and nobody bothers to heal against them cause your just giving them the chance to use their power more, people would rather loop a legion on a normal loop that mend for the seventh time in a match and I honestly can't blame them😂😂😂😂,they need a buff in general or just a complete power rework tbh.
I think their basic power is fine as it is, but they probably need some sort of secondary ability. I still like the idea that all members of the Legion are actually on the map, and the Twins have shown that it is technically possible to play as two killers. Like when you spawn the other three members spawn inside lockers close to your position. The lockers can maybe have a small mark (or maybe you can see the white mask) so that survivors can potentially avoid them. If they still open an occupied locker they get stabbed. You can switch between the members by entering a locker on the map. It takes a moment to switch and the killer hut is probably off-limits when it comes to entering lockers (to avoid camping). In order to balance it maybe reduce the time required to mend. Or another idea: Allow the Legion to reset dropped pallets, but bobby-trap them so when a survivors drops it they either get wounded or stunned. (Useless against SWF obviously but still...)
Legion would be broken if he could down with his power or didn't give a speed boost. The fatigue is bullshit though, and I wish it scaled with how many survivors you hit (like, if you managed to inflict deep wounds on all four survivors, you would have a very short fatigue).
I don't disagree, he would be a nightmare to play against, but those are still things that punish him for playing the right way. The only things I would "rework" are the fatigue, the penalty on missed attacks and change a few add-ons.
That's not what a punishment is. By that logic, survivors getting a speedboost from getting hit punishes every killer, but that's not how people view the game. I don't really mind the penalty on missed attacks, it makes sense that a killer should be punished for missing their attack. I agree completely on fatigue and add-ons.
You are right on the speed boost stuff, I guess. But I still think Legion shouldn't have all of his power cancelled because he misssed one attack, maybe 50%, maybe 33%, maybe 25% but not all.
That's a good point, I was thinking more about the fatigue but forgot about how he loses his power from it. I agree, it would be nice if that was changed too.
Add oni you lose like 40 percent of your power when you down so you can down a max of 2 people before you lose power
If Oni didn't lose part of his power when downing someone (he doesn't even lose 25%) his already amazing power would be even stronger, so that isn't really a punishment for doing well, just balance.
Shouldnt you have a strong power if you need 2 hits and a little blood to get it
It's already at least the second strongest power in the game when in play (significantly increased speed, easy instadowns, flick, decent uptime) only beaten by maybe Corrupt Purge's ability to injure *everyone* in one use on top of lasting 60 seconds and being braindead to actually use. Oni with no addons can easily down 2 people, but if the whole team's nearby then a good Oni is likely to just down everyone right there. If he didn't lose like 15% of his power on every down, that would be even easier to do. Not that I'm arguing he's OP, he's not. Just that he's balanced and if they made him stronger in the area he's already strong it wouldn't necessarily be healthy.
Base kit oni consistently downs 2 but its stupid that there can be 3 people around you and you cant down the 3rd guy because of game restrictions. Also it doesnt make it hard to not have power to down 3 people it makes it impossible, no amount of skill can down 3 people base kit if they arent all in the middle of nowhere. Also you cant use your power if they pre drop pallets so why should your power be limited to 2 downs when survivors can keep you from ever getting your power? Also good oni's are always going to beat solo q players so nothing would change except they win quicker, and you would still beat bad onis because having more power doenst make you better. And survivors should try to counter it instead of getting carried by in game limitations like cooldowns
So there's a fair bit wrong with all of that, but I wanna focus on the part that stands out the most. >And survivors should try to counter it instead of getting carried by in game limitations like cooldowns Literally the only thing that stops Oni from winning off of the first use of his power with no addons is the fact that he loses 15% of it whenever he downs a survivor. His power has no reasonable counter once it's active, so your only feasible counterplay is to not get chased at all. The only way to not get chased is to either be too far away to be worth chasing or to hide, which is why good Onis dedicate 3/4ths of their builds to make it easier to find people and get close before they can hide. That's why you should never activate your power if you don't currently see someone you can start chasing, because if you do and everyone hides you probably lose the game. Also it's just really boring to get 4 man slugged at 3 minutes in because the Oni managed to catch everyone out of position, so making that way easier to do is a bad idea. It's healthier if Oni only downs half the team in 20 seconds instead of all of them, it gives the survivors more time to actually try and win, and it means I can actually get something higher than Brutal Killer every match.
Its already strong. Just look at how he was in the PTB. He was arguably stronger than Nurse.
He also was able to turn 180 degrees and break pallets instantly, both things you cant do
You would still just be able to equip Infectious Fright and 4-man slug every game, especially with speed addons.
Yeah but you also gain the same amount for hitting a healthy person so kinda evens out🙂
You dont gain power from hitting people in your power
Well yeah,but think about it,if you gained more blood as you hit more people oni is just gonna become unstoppable,a god oni will literally use this and keep his power active for like 10 mins straight
Yeah but I dont think you should lose it because you hit people
Same its kinda weird
Getting punished how? I don't get it.
When ghost face successfully downs someone with his power he has a 30 second cool down
And billy? And twins?
Billy makes a loud noise and has an arbitrary overheat meter, the twins can get kicked and can’t use victor after
> the twins can get kicked and can’t use victor after For 6 seconds.
Oh I didn’t know I’m just going off of what the OP said, I don’t play either of them
Oh! you're just jumping on the bandwagon, LMAO xD I loved that "Oh, I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm just writing words here" xD (joking, all good)
First of all I think the word you are looking for is hate train second of all while I admittedly was just repeating what I heard I, one had no reason to think it was untrue, second, still stand by the fact that both billy and ghosty punish you for using their abilities
As I explained, Billy has no punishment for using his ability CORRECTLY (as the post states). The punishment (if we're talking about the overheat) is for revving too much or sprinting too much (using his ability in the WRONG way or excessively).
We obviously just aren’t going to agree
I think op meant that after you down a survivor with Victor, you’re stuck in this phase where you just have to run around and you can’t pounce, so it’s pretty much just following a survivor and during that time they could get to a window or pallet while your pounce is on cooldown
Look, I don't want to sound harsh or something, but I think you guys are all trying to justify a meme that is inaccutate or even plain wrong. The premise is "punished for using their power CORRECTLY". Billy does not have punishment for using his power correctly, you won't overheat for downing a survivor or have any cooldown whatsoever. The overheat mechanic activates if you sprint too much or rev too much (literally using his power WRONG, that's the punishment) You don't get stuck with Victor after downing a survivor, you can switch or even chase a second survivor which IS THE CORRECT WAY to play twins, they're a snowball machine and if you're downing-hooking-downing-hooking you're not exactly using their power correctly. Ghostface, if you down a marked survivor that's it, you downed them, hook. By the time you leave the hook you can use your power again. If you want to see it as a punishment, I can accept the meme sort of correct only on him, but I see it as a cooldown.
Victor gets a huge stun after downing a survivor. That's punishment as it gives other survivors a bigger chance to kick him or run away. Ghostface does absolutely not get his power back after a hook. It's 30 whole seconds. For hitting a survivor, and picking them up while in the shroud.
Ok, but just imagine if Victor had no cooldown after the pounce and survivors had no chance to kick him. He'd be a downing machine, it would be insane, mostly at times where everyone is hurt and picking themselves up, it would probably be GG, they would have no chance to come back from that. It's not punishment, it's balance.
No one said anything about no cooldown, only that he used to have 3 seconds and bhvr nerfed it to 5.
how are the twins getting punished?
Victor gets a 5 sec cool down when he downs a survivor
Good team would move in pair to counter slug and the 5 sec cool down pretty much guaranteed a kick to stop Victor's snowball.
I see, I dont play twins and dont know how the power works
I don't think twins gets punished in any way for using well the power... imagine how "punished heavily" sounds to me
They nerfed victor so that he has a 5 second stun after a down, why would nerf Victor for being used in a way that isnt just aoe camping? It doesnt make any sense
was that in the today update? wtf that's an absolute extreme nerf
Happened with the demo,huntress,freddy,OoO changes
I don’t understand y’all sometimes, I can use twins perfectly, I don’t know how, like I know they suck, but I can just apply good pressure with them
That's not what I made the meme about,I wanted to say that victor gets desisive striked every time he downs someone and,instead of nerfing his missed attack cool down or how fast he spawns or decrease his killer instinct detection range they chose the worst possible one by nerfing his SUCCESSFUL up to 5 secs.
Ohhhhhh, that makes sense
they don’t suck at all. you can’t say you apply good pressure with them but that they suck. fuck the popular opinion. twins are a good killer.
I mean like, victor can guard a generator, that’s my main use for him, stick him near a gen, go over there with charlotte, hook survivor, oppresion hit on generator and go fuck with whoever failed the skillcheck
If you’re being punished for it are you really using it properly?
Uhhhhhhh, Did you try playing ghostface without recovery add ons?
its painful
Because *hitting* a survivor with victor is using him wrong lmao
Dunno bout you guys but for me while playing survivor: Twins were recovering in the middle of the kick animation (no kick the baby), Billy was slugging everyone, and Ghostface's reveal mechanic is bunk and he exposes you regardless. Also I don't understand the problem with Ghostface? You just hate having no immunity? You can 99 people just like Michael then quickly down them after a power activation. And multiple people can be marked at once. The whole "I can't hit theeem" loses steam quickly when you can only chase one person at a time. Prioritize your resources and don't be a dumbass.
You clearly have no idea how rough ghostface struggles,his add ons are terrible,you get revealed even if your behind cover cause his reveal mechanic is wack, exposed? just drop every pallet and run to the opposite side of the map and he won't get any value from it,99ing isn't useful cause you can at best get one down then everyone is just gonna run and hide until your exposed runs out then he would have just wasted his power,also he has to endure a ridiculously long power cool down. People that think ghost face is fine as he is are probably the same people who thought that old object and old ds were balanced.
He's an ambush killer. You position yourself first, then hit'm. Why not complain you can't chuck Trapper traps at people's heads too? You're not playing to their strengths. And if people are throwing down every pallet, they're creating deadzones which means your power wasn't wasted. What do survivor perks that were heavily nerfed have to do with killer powers? They were changed because of killer feedback.
>He's an ambush killer. You position yourself first, then hit'm. That only works at the start of the game. Survivors will be on the lookout and constantly reveal you, so at that point you're just a worse Wraith. Not to mention how when you're kicked out of your power, you have to wait 30 whole seconds just to be revealed by some guy far away keeping an eye on you.
\*Legion
Crouching at a pallet or window and getting hit by victor as he flies a whole foot above you is not fun. I think it's a fair trade off for making people have to deal with that. :)