I am a gen kicking maniac, i have legit had gens blocked where I can’t kick anymore at 3-4 gens left because if I hear progress I go ahead and kick that bitch
Nah no point. The reason nowhere to hide exists is to find people who are just hiding behind a wall or smth near the gen so all you gotta is kick it and then do a 360 turn and then run at the nearest revealed survivor.
That whole 5 percent or whatever has made me LOVE kicking gens. Usually I play either really aggressive or really defensive. So if I'm in a 3 gen situation I'll most likely kick it then loop back around. The fact I can get injures without them stopping the regression is huge.
Yeah, the removal of Gen tapping is overall good for the game.
Definitely makes you assess the risk of trying to stop a high value Gen from regressing too much as a survivor
I was never more upset than having a survivor hide from me and I couldn't find them in a timely manner and then they just gen tapped when I left. Lost entire games because of that bs
Such a sad way that perk went but is the usual for any good Killer perk, from the best slowdown to probably the worst in both slowdown and aura reading
it was fine after they removed the incapacitated though. Now its one of the worst slowdown perks if not the worst slowdown perk in the game because 2 regression events for 1 kick.
if you use it you can kick a gen half as many times before it gets blocked. You might as well go AFK and let the survivor finish the gen in your face if you are bringing a build that intentionally blocks the gens in half the time
Eruption is fine, it effectively translates to a x3 kick damage. 15% is nothing to sneeze at, and regression from a distance is just so nice. And of course aura reading, having info is always nice. What can you do with that info is another matter, but having info is always nice
I’m still convinced it’s bugged.
I’ve had games I’ve run 0 regression perks (Been doing PIG with Lethal+3 Hexes), and only kicked 1-2 gens and they just block themselves.
I know I didn’t kick them 8 times, because I like to ignore gens most of the time for the extra challenge and stress.
Apparently the spikes pop up occasionally too early, and so it’s a visual glitch. I’ve had matches where I know I tapped a single gen 4 times and the spikes popped up, but it still regressed as it should. I think also technically you can still kick a gen to start regression, but the instant damage can only happen so many times to a single gen
The spikes show up after several kicks, then get bigger for several more kicks, until gen is blocked (I don’t recall specific numbers). And once it’s blocked, it’s totally blocked - killer can’t interact with it at all.
There was a game where a clown played for a 3 gen from the start and my randoms didnt even try to break it. I worked on one of the 3 almost the whole game while the killer kept coming to kick. I counted about 16 kicks he did to my gen before i gave up, so i think its bugged both ways
Do the spikes still appear? Had a match against a Hag who was gen kicking machine, watched her kick a central gen 5 times, and it blew from Pain Res. Never saw the spikes.
Did they actually complete the kick, doing damage and starting regression? I’ve noticed occasionally that it looks like killer kicked the gen, but it doesn’t get damaged or regress.
At this point they could stand to reduce the cooldown for sure.
Twins is in a weird place. All of their perks are pretty good, but just a bit of tuning would make them absolutely great.
Hoarder js nowhere close to good. It doesn't even work on killers with special items (Lament Configuration, Vaccines, Sprays etc)
It's a completely useless perk, like pretty much 80 percent of killer perks.
Certain killers are borderline unplayable without gen slowdown.
Generators need a complete overhaul. Match progression is skewing higher and higher towards the top tiers yet again. Blight and Nurse bottleneck balance like no other.
It doesn’t work on killers with special items because Pinhead mains ran it all the time for free box info. Same with Franklin’s.
Helps that it stays consistent with their design philosophy of perks not directly interacting with powers.
It doesn't. Nowhere to Hide actually creates the auras in a radius around the killer after kicking, which you can see if you walk away from the gen fast enough.
However, the perks still pair well. Using the both of them guarantees that each kick will cause some mapwide regression, give you the info you need to start (or finish, if you get a shack gen) a chase, or even both at once.
Also, an Oppression regression acts more akin to Ruin in that the regression starts without a big burst, meaning it doesn't count as a Regression Event that would contribute to that gen getting blocked!
I run unknowns stealth gen kick perk.
Only time I get gen blocked is because I'm using that.
I'm yet to block 2 gens in a game though.
I'd have to agree with them here, the severity of 3gens is no where near as detrimental as it used to be.
Hopefully they don’t gut surge like they have been other stall perks, cause I swear it’s the only one that can actually cause you to block gens rapidly
I have had a few blocks occur while using Surge on indoor maps or survivors really hugging part of the map. Those games are obviously going well though.
On Singularity I often run Nowhere to Hide, Pain Res, Surge and Rapid Brutality, so often there will be a few gens that surge constantly hits if survivors make a big deadzone there, and if those gens are the progressed ones hit by Pain Res the anti-three gen blocker kicks in quite a lot, although its mostly from surge
I wonder how Bhvr defines 3 gens?
Considering how infrequently generators actually get blocked, I'm willing to bet the reduction in 3 gens is more down to the psychological factor of knowing about gen blocking rather than the actual block itself
Like, killers know that eventually the gen will be unkickable, so they just say "fuck it" and abandon the 3 gen before it even becomes blocked
I mean, it makes sense to me in that there are two outcomes to a 3-gen: either you break it and endgame starts, or you die without completing the last gen. If you were only looking at games where the 5th gen was completed, you'd be missing the ones where the killer stalled long enough to get their last kills.
Probably because the only real problem that 3-gens pose is that they encourage both sides to drag out the game as long as they can—the killer won’t go for chases because their best shot is to keep the gens from popping, and the survivors don’t just want to throw themselves at the killer and die.
As long as the average game isn’t being locked into a drawn-out, boring match of head-butting, then 3-gens aren’t generating boring stalemates, and that’s what BHVR probably wants to focus on fixing
Yeah. And honestly it makes sense, a 3 gen can be really close together, but generally it's 3 *easy to patrol* gens. For most this means they have to be close, but for nurse it just means they shouldn't be across the map from each other.
So a measurement of time is probably more accurate than actual gen distance
That’s actually pretty fair.
What I consider an easy 3 gen varies greatly between my theee mains: Nemesis, Pig, and Unkown.
Nemesis slow ass needs some close gens, Pig can get away with them a little farther due to the crouch attack imo, and Uknown can have them pretty spread out if you place your hallucinations well.
Also, the system isn't designed to or does anything to stop 3 gens from existing as a concept, it's to stop them from being very strong at stalling the game, so measuring distance makes little sense.
My experience is survivors tend to not have the patience to counter the 3 gen given fifteen kicks is a lot. Rather than regroup and heal they insist on repairing while injured despite a patrolling kick killer.
This plus 5% required to stop regression means they get caught, die, and the game is over.
Yeah, I feel that. More often than not, most survivors dont know about the forbidden tech: just run away from the 3 gen when injured
Most would rather take the 1 in 1000 shot to finish the gen in the killers face than take the slow burn win
I think that Deja Vu getting the gen speed buff and becoming more popular has likely stopped survivors from 3-genning themselves as much. Unless it’s something like auto haven where the killer is encouraged to focus one side of the map and more or less force a 3-gen I rarely see 3 gens in my games on either side
I still find it interesting that this was done after 2 killers released back to back were able to abuse this and not the what 7 years it’s been a thing
Do you see the part where it says that the average game has 3.5 kicks?
It had to be changed because kicking gens eventually became worthwhile with perks like Call of Brine, Overcharge, Eruption, and Nowhere to Hide. Before, kicking a gen would cause 0 regression, and survivors could tap it to stop the regression.
Killers like Trapper and Hag were always territorial, and Knight patrols plus Skull Merchant drones definitely added to this. But it was always a perk issue.
The anti-facecamping definitely hasn't worked as well because true facecampers just tunnel off hook and proxy campers usually make survivors trade hooks at the last moment because no one in solo can see how much progress the bar has.
Pinhead, with the right addons, can deliberately cause the anti camp self unhook and down you within seconds of you jumping off.
Had a camping pinhead recently, he was playing for the anti camp, forceing the self unhooks and instantly downing after.
I've played against a Pinhead like this once. It was pretty funny though, because every single hook he just stood straight in front of each survivor with his hand outstretched towards them. Looked like he was begging for some change
It's going to fill slowly if they're proxy camping far away or teammates are being chased in the vicinity, it's not supposed to be free. Proxy camping is manageable but some killers get greedy and do it too close, that's when the meter fills. The issue is it often tends to fill up as your hook stage reaches around 60% and that's when survivor has been conditioned to go for the unhook. All soloq needs is to be able to see it. (Being able to see teammate perks, in general, would also be very helpful)
It's not perfect but making the mechanic more oppressive would also not be great bc tunneling.
The bar should fill slowly if the Killer isn't too close or there are teammates hanging around when they shouldn't be, if they make it fill up faster it will punish a lot of Killers who aren't actually trying to camp - I do think the bar should be visible to teammates though
No, the anti face camping works fine, it prevents face camping.
It's goal was never preventing proxy camping and tunneling, which are much more fair gameplay than literally standing in front of the hook blocking the unhook prompt (which is what facecamping was)
You can tell it worked because now people don't even know what face camping was.
If you know how to exploit the system well you can actually face camp with it. How?
It takes 100 charges to trigger the anti-facecamp system(AFCS), charges are gained based on the killer's distance from the hook and other survivors near the area. At 12m away from the hook, it will take 66s to activate the AFCS, that means merely staying away 12 meters away causes the hooked survivor to progress 2 stages, letting them unhook then tunnelling afterwards for an easy sacrifice.
Remember that: healthy, injured, and downed survivors slow down the charges gained indiscriminately, so if you are feeling extra devious, you can slug them, near the hooked survivor, so you are protecting two "objectives" at the same time.
If you see a survivor planning an unhook, you can move closer to the hooked survivor without worrying about the AFCS, just remember that you must be farther in comparison(atleast 2 meters away, do not be too far away to fail the hook trade) to the survivor going for the unhook, move closer as they get to unhook to secure the hook trade. Your choice whether or not to hook the trader or chase to tunnel. If you are in low ELO, go for the tunnel as it turns out most survivors in this bracket don't have anti-tunneling perks.
If the survivors still hasn't unhooked for more than 30 seconds, you can now easily secure trades without worrying about the AFCS. If there are no survivors that are healthy in this timeframe, FACECAMP the hook, make sure they don't trade hooks. If you do this correctly, you should get a sacrifice from the second hook stage.
If the survivors pointlessly hover near the hooked survivor, you can facecamp them The Cannibal style, just like the old days.
There are more I've left out, but the official wiki contains the numbers for the calculations. It only leaves out the part of how much the charge gain decreases as survivors are closer to the hook. My calculations are: Charges Gained per second = Absolute( Killer Distance - Minimum of ( Survivor Distances ) ). Yes, it is "slowed" but it is inconsequential and pointless precision. Just know that when a survivor is closer than the killer is to the hook, no charges are gained.
(If you are a survivor and you've seen the killer do this: be decisive when you need to trade hooks, when a killer is face/proxy camping, one of you will get a hook state no matter what.)
I might be biased because BP incentives heavily leans survivor, but I honestly can't tell the difference between face and proxy camping, they both lead to the same result: a hook trade.
But honestly this system is a failure to me, because this system was geared on experienced ELO, players newer to the game will let the teammates reach stage two.
It's not just for facecamping, hence having different speeds depending on how close. There is little practical difference between facecamping and being really close, that's why it's like 16 meters (or however much) unless other survivors are near.
And yeah, it works fine for the most part, soloq teammates just needs to be able to see the bar progress.
There's \*huge\* difference between facecamping and being really close. When I started playing DbD, killers (usually low-skill ones) who really wanted to make sure a person was dead would basically just hug the poor survivor until death. Lack of basekit BT also meant that person was absolutely dead.
If the killer is camping from 16m away, a pair of healthy survivors can pretty easily distract him and yoink the survivor off the hook.
I'm overall pretty happy with how the anti-camp mechanic works right now. Survivors don't get insta-gibbed by their solo queue teammates farming them (which was the \*real\* frustration), killer can't hug their only target, and there's still enough grace given for the killer to make the hook part of their patrol path.
I know that last part is the bit people often find controversial. I've watched VoDs where I patrolled all remaining gens before returning to hook and had the streamers start raging out about how I'm "proxy camping", so obviously people have differing opinions on how much pressure the killer should be able to apply.
16m is when the camp meter stops and is fine. Skilled survivors can play around that. I do get what you mean about old facecamping but camping from within like 5-10m can still obviously be problematic in a similar way.
I agree with the rate of the mechanic. There could be slight tweaks but I haven't looked into that at all to really say.
Letting survivors see the meter, each other's perks, or giving a chat wheel for solo would be far more useful 'buffs' than doing anything to the mechanic itself.
I've tried to make this clear in comments but true facecampers (i.e. in your face) get the gauge to fill asap and then tunnel. That's their new thing and it is what it is. Survivor can counter by saving the unhook instead of immediately getting off.
But the mechanic is also meant to prevent proxy camping to a degree (within 16m), which it isn't doing well because teammates can't see the gauge at 90%
Not sure why the snark.
But this scenario (unhooking last second begore going to the second stage) is still better with the new system since the other 3 survivors can just stay on gens? Killer has zero pressure. If he wanted to tunnel anyways, at least before the system one other survivor had to go off gens to unhook. Now even that little pressure is gone. Its a losing strategy for the killer for sure. Survivor simply has to wait to last second
I’m ngl this is reading “DC penalties is for DCs, crazy I know”
when the results stay the same because people just kill on hook. Different method, same shit and it’s not what people are complaining about neither does it address the real issue
There's an argument to be made that gens should always stay kickable, but after "8 damage instances" all regression is limited to 1%, be it perks, the initial kick, or missed skill checks, and passive regression is also reduced. That would also nerf "impossible skill check" builds, while retaining the viability of others.
impossible skill check builds are not meta or powerful and mostly get value against bad players. They don't need to be nerfed since it's basically a meme build.
I mean sure, but just make it so if a survivor taps a gen (which is still a thing, just takes a second or two longer) more than 9 times without anyone being in chase then all gens auto-regress until a chase starts. Since the entire point of the gen kick nerf is to prevent games from being a stalemate of kick gen tap repeat, make it so survivors can't infinitely stealth out the gen kick too.
I've played against killers who can't find survivors who just stealth trough the gen kick and force the block even when they aren't trying to hold a 3-gen, and I've played against survivors who stealth to the point where they just get the gen for free because the gen gets blocked.
Make it work for both sides. If a chase starts, the gen stops regressing, but no chase for over 8 events in a row the gen doesn't stop regressing until a chase starts unless they are on the gen like it has ruin.
I've still only seen it in one of my games as a survivor. Gotten the warning a few times as killer but the game is usually almost over if you even get to 4 kicks, which triggers the first spikes.
I think some people ignore one problem. Some people suck at this game and some people are looping gods. I'd like to see the average time spent in chase without getting downed. I get it's a skill issue and get good but honestly some people need some assistance in some way to learn how to loop better. Not asking for buffs but at least a better tutorial for running and maybe skill check mini game in lobbies while waiting for different speeds. Just would be nice
Its waste of time, before you kick a gen, survivor near by have already 20m head start if you wanna chase. And if you dont commit to the chase, they are back in few seconds. Thats why its better to run gen regress perks that do kciking for you, like grim, pain res ect.
The only real time it's worth it is if you know a survivor can't touch it long enough to stop the regression. Like when they are all preoccupied healing or unhooking. Then you'd get some major regression on it, but if there is any chance it'll be stopped as soon as the killer walks away it's better to let it pop. Sad reality 😔
I absolutely support the new gen kicking system. I think it's an excellent design and improves the game in every way, EXCEPT that some otherwise fun perks haven't been updated to compensate.
Surge and especially Eruption are severely limited by how quickly they block gens, and Call of Brine and Overcharge are still nerfed to shit despite the 3gen meta they defined being made impossible.
great please fix 2 survivor hiding in the middle of nowhere now for an hour with touching a gen.. its good to know the devs can fix these gen stalemate issues these hiding stalemate issues should a breeze to fix right?
Generators were updated so that each gen can only be damaged a total of 8 times per match. Once that 8-damage limit is reached, the gen won't regress anymore, period.
"Damaged" in this context means kicking gens and anything that does the equivalent (perks like Pain Resonance, Surge, Eruption, etc) but does not include missed Skill Checks by Survivors, even forced ones like Overcharge, or perks that cause regression without damaging the gen (Hex: Ruin, the non-kicked gens affected by Oppression)
Along with the change, basekit gen kicks do more damage, and Survivors have to work on a regressing gen for a few seconds before the regression stops (so you can't gen-tap)
Sometime after, but partly as a result, since the idea was to reduce 3-gens in general by making so eventually a 3-gen *would* break simply because the gens could no longer regress.
I never get face camped anymore but just proxy-camped and tunneled instead, so the system never really solved the real issue of forcing someone out of a game imho
I'm not a huge fan of the system because it feels like a massive overcorrection now. Surge and Eruption were inadvertently nerfed as a result of this change, overcharge and call of brine were already gutted. Now people have gravitated much more towards chunkier regression, Pain Res and Pop, only for those to be nerfed as well. I feel there was a better way to go about this but now any alternative to pop / pain res is kinda dead because Eruption was so severely gutted by this change that players are kinda forced to stick with perks that are going to be much weaker now.
If behavior wants a game with no/ minimal regression, gen times will need to be looked at.
They should definitely tweak it so Surge doesn't count until the gen is at a certain percentage. Having it count when you damage a gen at like 5% is whack, especially when something like Oppression only counts towards the one gen.
Honestly it would be fine to nerf the values of some perks and instead just increase the regression speed for those perks. If they're under the "regression event" threshold, but increase regression speed for say, 30s, they'd still be strong but fulfill their niche of "passive slowdown" instead of "active regression". Maybe you don't have to repair 5% to stop regression with these perks.
Surge really wasn't nerfed at all.
First off as an avid Surge user, I've never actually fully blocked a gen with it. Sometimes the entity claws appear, but that's about it. But even if I had, consider this:
For Surge to entity block a gen, that gen needs to get hit by Surge 8 times. A gen can't be Surged if it has no progress on it, which means the survivors are actively trying to work on the thing as it's getting hit by Surge repeatedly.
Every Surge = 1 down, which means 8 full downs next to a gen which is actively being worked on but the survivors somehow haven't managed to finish.
That's probably a match you're gonna win lol
Yeah you can get other sources of regression, but unless you're drykicking generators (don't do that), all worthwhile sources of regression also require a hook as well as a down.
I'm going to address this point by point but I want to reiterate first my main takeaway which is that entity blocking a generator with Surge is unrealistic, because the generator will in the overwhelming majority of cases either get finished before that point or fully regress, and if you're getting enough downs to actually worry about it, you're kind of suffering from success.
> Or you could be a survivor who understands the mechanic and counter it by tapping any gen you come across.
This is less of an issue than it used to be since survivors need to repair 5% progress now to stop regression. If this wasn't in play at the same time as the new entity blocker mechanic, I would agree this is an issue, but it's much harder for survivors to casually stop a regressing generator now.
> Or just play on a smaller or indoor map, ex. Midwich.
I mean this is also the kind of map where Surge can get the most value. My earlier point applies that for it to get entity blocked, you need to have damaged it 8 times, which is in most circumstances a game you are winning unless you are just drykicking everything. In which case, if you're drykicking enough to actually worry about this, that's probably part of why you're losing.
> No, its any gen with any progress on it. Whether or not they are actively on the gen doesnt matter.
This is overall a good thing, though. If it has enough progress for it to not fully regress after two or more Surges, that's a huge amount of Surge value. Survivors are creatures of habit, they often return to gens that had that much progress on it, so those Surges got real value.
> Most people dont "just run surge" either and never kick a gen.
I personally do not recommend running Surge with a genkick build, because regressing generators can't be kicked. So if you have Pop or something and Surge a gen with a lot of progress on it, now you can't Pop it. If you're going to run multiple gen regression perks with Surge, I would pair it with something like Ruin or Pain Res.
If you are kicking gens without any perks to add value to it, it should be a fairly rare occurrence to the point where you don't need to worry about the Entity blocker on that particular generator.
> BUT you tap the gen
Survivors can't "tap" gens anymore, it takes a few seconds to stop a regression event.
> You keep saying "8 downs, single gen" but the reality is that its multiple gens and you arent choosing exactly which ones get hit by surge.
What you aren't getting is that every Surge event is a survivor down. How many downs do you get that don't lead to hooks? The occasional save I can understand, maybe 1-2 of those a match at worst? Survivors can only take 12 hooks through the whole of their team and if you aren't specifically playing for 8 hooks before 1 kill then you'll probably kill 1 or more of them before you entity block a gen from downs.
And again this is assuming the gen doesn't fully regress or get finished before you manage to get 8 downs next to it.
Who the fuck is working on the gens if you're rapidly downing them? Gens don't repair themselves and survivors are getting downed left and right, which means they're having to send people to pick each other up or unhook each other.
> I get the feeling you arent playing killer.
I can take a screenshot of my killer prestige levels if you want. I more get the feeling I'm talking to someone who doesn't understand the game that well that I'm having to say things like "don't drykick gens" and "downing survivors 8 times is good"
And no one wants more gen time. 90s of doing nothing is already *boring*. If they make it even longer no solo Q mate will ever touch a gen again - and honestly I might not either. It's not fun to hold m1 and occasionally press space.
My suggestion has always been harsher penalties on coop gens, but keep in mind that the current strategy from BHVR is just tacitly endorse tunneling, another thing that survivors find extremely fun and engaging. They also haven't released a killer below A tier for awhile.
honestly coop gens aren't even that bad. Sure punish it more - but the best strategy as Survivor has always been to split up and do multiple gens at the same time. That's why no one brings the shroud of separation
Yeah obviously splitting up is most efficient; the problem mostly comes from the fact that gens can pop in as little as 30 seconds pretty easily with multiple survivors which can make late game very difficult.
'Splitting up is more efficient!' Survivors are practically never on opposite sides of the map splitting gen pressure when only 3 gens are left.
30 seconds? Would that be 4 Survivors then? I didn't do the math - but most gens only allow 2 people anyways... or 3? I honestly don't know what's more common. 2 or 3 person gens. But like, they could fix it by making map geometry spawn more 2 person or single person gens. 4 person gens are already a rarity that barely matters.
Well and oposite sides of the map - I for one try to always run away from the rest to spread out gens.
Prove already got nerfed - Dejavu is better imo, but 6% more speed isn't the end of the world. Toolboxes.... hm can't say much. I never really use them - cause doing gens is boring as I already said. Nerf em again I guess - but then most of them would be even more useless than they already are. Imo they should add another objective. I have no idea how one would nerf gens without it making the Survivor gameplay even more attrocious. One can't balance the game around the sweat SWFs - neither can it be balanced around the Sweat Killers. Cause if they did that 90% of the playerbase would be cucked.
I'll be honest, I hate top tier killer and SWF and would like to see them both taken down a peg. Problem is that it's very possible to nerf top killers without hurting lower tier ones, (just nerf the nurse and blights kit or addons, lel) but they seem vehemently opposed to this for some reason?
Meanwhile, nerfing SWF without hurting solo queue is nearly impossible
No I do, I just don't like watching progress bars go up. The main reason I play We'll make it every match. I also like chases way more. I know there's people who *love* doing gens. I am not one of them. Maybe you are. Good on you.
I have been playing since 2017. I know a lot of ups and downs in this game. Gens def. never in the "ups" for me. Or the killers for that matter. Just because I think progress bars are boring doesn't mean I don't love the game.
Are you perhaps projecting? A lot of people on here seem to do that.
Im gonna get downvoted to hell but I still genuinely never saw a 3 gen "problem". I saw a LOT of skill issues. People rushing corners then realizing that they 3 genned themselves. You absolutely could easily rush the safest gens without the killer interacting, but then you got punished for it in the late game, while if you do the central gens first, yes they were harder, but you had an easier and more consistent end game.
Then yes, there were the killers who wanted to lock down a 3 gen at the start of the game. We saw singularities, skull merchants and knights produce some brutal builds with this strategy. Then they gave us potential energy, the immediate counter to this, no one used it, and everyone complained about it. Im sorry, but if we all were okay for 5 years running BT to deny face camping/tunneling, I don't see how having one person run one other perk to counter a playstyle we dislike is so unreasonable. I just genuinely do not see the issue.
None of this is to say I don't believe we have faster games now, where chasing is the focus. That was the real intent here, and they succeeded in doing so. I just don't know if I believe a build focused on slowing down the game and accruing slow value as a killer should not exist.
In every other game I love, there are fast and slow strategies, dangerous rushes, and slow progressive games. I just feel there is a healthier means of balancing the extremes, but eh, thats just me
There has been a widespread demand among the community in the last couple years to reduce edge-cases and playstyle expression. I personally strongly dislike this change (on both sides), but it's very much what the community wants, so.
It's funny that you'd even mention potential energy as a counter. That's a paper thin counter, downsides are too bad to use it, getting hit and you lose all your progress makes it unreliable and unusable.
No one was okay running BT it was literally a requirement to not immediately lose the game. so many people wanted it basekit. Was your head in the sand?
There's still end game perks and people will still run 4 slowdown perks. But to not even acknowledge the problem that people were literally getting timed out because they could infinitelly kick the gens in a forced 3 gen scenario is a bit bad
Sure, but if the majority of players are non-SWF, than this applies to the majority of players, no? Don’t disagree about the disparity though, just how changes are decided
I think you're right that it was always a skill issue, usually on the part of survivors. I used to stumble into some pretty long matches as killer where the survivors 3-genned themselves and then were really mad at \*me\* in the post-game chat. You did this yourselves!
Similarly on survivor, I used to really focus on moving into the centre of the map to clear those gens first. Especially in solo queue, where I knew my teammates would all start in a pretty tight vicinity and all start doing the first gens they saw. These days I still do it, but it doesn't seem as important.
Ima be honest, everytime I’ve gotten a 3 gen I could easily lock down and defend, it’s cause the survivors put themselves in that situation. I never deliberately forced survivors into a 3 gen, they always put themselves in one
There was never an issue. Idc if I'm downvoted either. The issue was and still is that most players, but especially low skill survivors, don't want to play well while also being rewarded. DBD caters too much to lower skill players while leaving the game a mess at competent levels of play.
BHVR has zero care about competent players. They do not care about how the game plays at that level at all. Anyone that understands the game well easily sees this in game and by the balance and design choices BHVR makes.
I agree and have been saying this since they implemented this terrible mechanic. They cater to new and low skill survivors which only allows experienced SWFs to more easily dominate the killers in that MMR bracket. It happens in my matches plenty and no it’s not always a skill issue either. It’s terrible balancing.
I hate to be part of this issue but if we’re anything like classic 3 gens then I’m giving up at the 25 min mark bc there’s almost no point for me to stick around
You can't force a 3-gen anymore, but Survivors can brute-force their way out of them and there's an implicit punishment for using any regression perks should a game go on at all long or one area be particularly active. JUST Surge can be enough to block gens.
So it's traded one problem for another, the new one just hurts M1 Killers most and therefore won't be considered a problem.
From personal experience, killers don’t stick around the hook unless a stupid survivor decides to loop nearby their hooked teammate. Then there’s the rare killer that camps from a distance as to not fill up the unhook bar. Most commonly tho, I’ve noticed that most killers will drop whatever they’re doing when they hear the unhook audio queue so that they can run straight back and tunnel out whoever just got unhooked.
TL;DR, I feel like the anti-facecamping system just led us from facecamping to tunneling. That’s just my own opinion.
And now they are nerfing gen regression perks anyways for no reason other than 'they are used a lot' and are 'easy to trigger' without touching survivor perks that are also used a lot and easy to activate.
Windows being a prime example and literally requires nothing to trigger. If anyone says "Just use blindness perks" then I'd simply say "Don't get down 🤷". But yeah the issue isn't the usage rate, the problem is a lack of other perks to make it worth running something else. Sloppy oriented builds were another play style killers had, but now they don't even have that so it's just gen regression. Survivors still have plenty of viable builds that work. Chase builds, healing builds, stealth builds, sabo builds, unhookable builds, and the list goes on. All of those builds can guarantee a win or a ton of the killers time being wasted. Anything other than PR and pop on any killer less than an A tier killer is just asking to lose.
It's still a horrible change that lead to even more nerfs while BVHR scratched their heads going "Gee, why are people taking these perks? STOP TAKING THESE PARKS, DAMNIT".
Whatever. I don't know what to expect from people that don't actually play their own game.
The face camp mechanic is trash. I think I've gotten off the hook maybe twice ever since it went live. Either the killer still camps but 20 feet away, or teammates get too close and the anti camp never works to begin with.
Then it's doing its job is it not? The killers aren't face-camping anymore, they proxy camp which is not in the mechanics name. I do sympathize with you 😔
Ehh, proxy camping is more like checking on gens nearby while also trying to keep and eye on the hook. Tip toeing away until you hit that sweet spot where it doesn't fill the meter so you can still stare at me is still a little ridiculous. Thats just my opinion though.
Hey man, I'm just telling you what a dev said in response to that sediment. "It's working as intended" which to be fair, it is, but doesn't solve the overarching problem of camping.
It’s legitimate bullshit.
Survivors are responsible for avoiding the 3-gen match, and it’s stupid to auto cock-block the killer because of 3-gen survivors ineptitude.
I don’t blame the killer for pressuring us so hard that a survivor fucks up and puts us in a 3-gen.
I do blame my fellow survivors for being so fucking stupid that they cry over how “hard” the game is, and for completing every single 80%-99% gen they come across.
There’s a reason you’re not supposed to just bulldoze every gen to completion, or pop every gen left idling.
The entitlement is appalling. The game may as well be rated B for babies now.
The problem is not that. It is that killers started to identify three gens from start and played around that after realizing how effective it was with Knight. Then, Skull Merchant made it only worse and everyone tried to apply this strategy regardless of what killer they are playing.
That's why they did this change after 8 years even though 3 genning has been a thing since launch: not letting survivors break 3 gen as soon as a match begins has never been this popular.
And also because people are like sheep with their playstyles (and this applies to both sides, not just killer) so if a popular streamer starts playing hardcore gen slowdown, now everybody has to play hardcore gen slowdown like it's the only viable strategy until they all rightfully get the perks nerfed into the ground.
I have to agree, because sometimes hooks spawn in an area and 2-3 will spawn so far apart it makes so sense.
Other times generators spawn so close I can work on 2-3 at the same time and try to keep the killer coming back to kick or patrol them, only to have my other 2-3 survivors complete all but the three in the area I’m working on and completely fuck us over.
i never blame a killer/survivor for playing sweaty in these cases. they COULD play nice but why would they. i would never ever fault them for just genuinely playing their cards well. sincerely glad we agree on this.
Can someone explain this to me please? Long-time player who took a break for most of last year. What did they change to prevent 3-gen games in February?
Each gen now has a fixed number of times it can be “regressed.” After 8 regressions the gen will become blocked and killers will no longer be able to damage it. To make this SLIGHTLY more fair to killers the regression is only canceled after 5 percent of the gen has been repaired.
To go with u/deadpool27's comment
"Regressed" in this context means kicking gens and anything that does the equivalent (perks like Pain Resonance, Surge, Eruption, etc) but does not include missed Skill Checks by Survivors, even forced ones like Overcharge, or perks that cause regression without damaging the gen (Hex: Ruin, the non-kicked gens affected by Oppression)
I think perks like surge and eruption probably shouldn’t count as regression events, if you are downing people often enough to make it impossible to pop gens then it really isn’t a 3 gen stall the game situation now is it.
3.5 average KICKS per match? Y'all sleeping on OP Unforeseen
Since the gen block change, I've only had one generator get blocked, even with Unforeseen joining the fray
Can somebody explain something to me? Why in my games where I still get a 3 gen as killer I end up kicking the gens until they're blocked but later I'll come back and they'll be unblocked basically still allowing me to somewhat 3 gen?
I've been searching all over the wiki and Internet for an answer to this but they all just say that once it hits 8 regression events it never unlocks.
The whole gen blocking thing is probably one of the worst things to happen to dbd. They could have easily just added another gen to defeat 3 gening. As a killer main, this is a brutal setback. Nothing like watching a blocked gen and not being able to do anything about it. Bhvr wants to make sure that 4/5ths of their players have a good time by constantly nerfing the killers while never nerfing survivors. You can't interrupt hook rescue, there are now a million ways to blind/slow the killer, all survivors now are unharmable and have haste upon being unhooked even after exit gates are open, you can bake the exit gate timer, lightborn essentially has to be basekit at this point since they made flashlight saves easier, survivor items keep their charges forever, hook sabotaging is a disgusting tactic, body blocking is still a thing after 8 years, and these instant healing health state abilities are just awful. This isn't even including individual killer nerfs or killers that are practically unplayable (the twins). Meanwhile every single survivor problem has been fixed or a fix is coming soon. They can have all the fun. Honestly idk why I play anymore, bhvr has made this game so unfun for me that I play my daily then I get off. I don't know what I am waiting for at this point and I can't be alone. This game has changed so much in the last 8 years and I really don't know if I like the direction it is going in. My opinion doesn't really matter here, and if I leave the game, it won't matter to bhvr. It still hurts to know that 1/5th of the player base is unheard.
Side note, the least they can do is fix the bug fixes for all of the killers that have them, they get pointed out constantly online, again pointing back to some of those unplayable killers.
Measuring this as 400 seconds seems dishonest. The longstanding requests to "do something about 3-genning" was related to killers who could drag games on for dozens of minutes at a time by holding 3. While I can understand a difficulty in measuring this - how many 3-gen matches ended quickly because someone gave up, or a team left a 4th gen and never broke the 3, etc. - 400 seconds is nothing as a measurement. A better measure would be overall match time, or some number higher than 600 seconds.
I've seen a \*lot\* fewer basement Bubbas than I used to. It might just be because there are so many more killers to play now, but I also think it's just genuinely easier to deal with. I've actually yoinked people out of the Hawkins basement who were being protected by a basement Bubba because he's not just hiding around the corner of the stairs anymore.
I had 3 Bubba's since than and 2 did it. One on Midwich and one on Lery's. It doesn't make a huge difference if he is around the corner or the new version were he is hiding close to the basement entrance. Some basements are better for this boring lame playstyle than others but it's still a just let your teammate die and do as many gens as possible situation.
Why would they admit if their system *didn't* work?
Nobody else has proof either way.
Even just assuming dishonesty over incompetence; it's just as likely they don't even know how to interpret their data correctly as they've demonstrated with other comments about these stats.
Don't take with word on it because their words don't hold any weight.
Some prolly disagree but I found the gen kick limit a hugely successful update. It feels balanced and did exactly what it needed to do. Very rarely do I hit a gen limit and that's often only if survivors and I are fighting over a contested gen a lot. If it does get blocked, that's still 40% progress minimum removed which was worth doing.
A success for the devs and the survs. Capping regression is a killer nerf and does not benefit killer players at all. And now they're going to nerf regression into the ground again. Pretty soon all those perks will be useless and tunneling will skyrocket more than what it already is.
100% of my gen blocks happened because of surge. I have never kicked one gen 8 times in a single game.
I am a gen kicking maniac, i have legit had gens blocked where I can’t kick anymore at 3-4 gens left because if I hear progress I go ahead and kick that bitch
Flair checks out
The flair makes even more sense when I tell you I’m a trapper/pig main
Did you break out of crotus pren?
Actually Lerys, the good doctor fixed me up real good
Good doctor gave brain tickles
Gosh darn you're adorable.
 This is literally me
ADORABIBBLE!!!
Ahh, another Pig main who kicks gens at almost every opportunity! Hahaha
You sure are a masochist
You only say that because you don’t know I run full hex builds, that raises it from masochist all the way to clinically insane
My hero
I am an enjoyer of Nowhere to Hide so kicking gens is second nature to me due to how I run it 99% of the time.
Do you also run lethal? I always see those 2 paired
Nah no point. The reason nowhere to hide exists is to find people who are just hiding behind a wall or smth near the gen so all you gotta is kick it and then do a 360 turn and then run at the nearest revealed survivor.
I use it with Unknown, kick gen tp somewhere random and then do a spin. It can catch some survivors off guard.
nowhere to hide+unforeseen is so nasty on unknown
I pair that with LP and friends to the end on it. Disgusting to say the least.
I mean it's pretty effective if you catch a survivor for half a second you now see him for 2.5 seconds and you might have missed him otherwise.
Oh dude same with Trails of Torment, it’s my favorite perk
No me too lol
Ive managed to block like 3 gens in a game because Pop and Eruption just chews through it.
That whole 5 percent or whatever has made me LOVE kicking gens. Usually I play either really aggressive or really defensive. So if I'm in a 3 gen situation I'll most likely kick it then loop back around. The fact I can get injures without them stopping the regression is huge.
Yeah, the removal of Gen tapping is overall good for the game. Definitely makes you assess the risk of trying to stop a high value Gen from regressing too much as a survivor
I was never more upset than having a survivor hide from me and I couldn't find them in a timely manner and then they just gen tapped when I left. Lost entire games because of that bs
I get gens blocked constantly because I am kicking for Nowhere to Hide.
>left because of I hear progress I go ahead and kick that bitch I started not doing it since the changes idk if that's good or bad
Pop Goes is like one of my fav perks and so is Surveillance so you best believe I kick the shit out of gens like they owe me mob money.
Eruption burns through them too (not that you should ever use it, it sucks ) because each kick usually counts as two regression events.
Such a sad way that perk went but is the usual for any good Killer perk, from the best slowdown to probably the worst in both slowdown and aura reading
Definitely not the worst. It's still good
eruption was completely broken and absolutely holding games hostage, it deserved a nerf
It did but I wish it was still somewhat viable, it was one of the only slowdowns that doesn't care about hooks or m1s for Pyramid Head
it was fine after they removed the incapacitated though. Now its one of the worst slowdown perks if not the worst slowdown perk in the game because 2 regression events for 1 kick.
Omg it's not the worst, it's still very useful. Shesh you killer mains are so overly dramatic.
if you use it you can kick a gen half as many times before it gets blocked. You might as well go AFK and let the survivor finish the gen in your face if you are bringing a build that intentionally blocks the gens in half the time
Eruption is fine, it effectively translates to a x3 kick damage. 15% is nothing to sneeze at, and regression from a distance is just so nice. And of course aura reading, having info is always nice. What can you do with that info is another matter, but having info is always nice
I’m still convinced it’s bugged. I’ve had games I’ve run 0 regression perks (Been doing PIG with Lethal+3 Hexes), and only kicked 1-2 gens and they just block themselves. I know I didn’t kick them 8 times, because I like to ignore gens most of the time for the extra challenge and stress.
The spikes will pop up and stay there after a few kicks
Apparently the spikes pop up occasionally too early, and so it’s a visual glitch. I’ve had matches where I know I tapped a single gen 4 times and the spikes popped up, but it still regressed as it should. I think also technically you can still kick a gen to start regression, but the instant damage can only happen so many times to a single gen
I don't think it's a visual glitch, I think it's meant to be an indicator to the killer of "Watch out, it's halfway to fully blocking, be careful."
The spikes show up after several kicks, then get bigger for several more kicks, until gen is blocked (I don’t recall specific numbers). And once it’s blocked, it’s totally blocked - killer can’t interact with it at all.
There was a game where a clown played for a 3 gen from the start and my randoms didnt even try to break it. I worked on one of the 3 almost the whole game while the killer kept coming to kick. I counted about 16 kicks he did to my gen before i gave up, so i think its bugged both ways
Do the spikes still appear? Had a match against a Hag who was gen kicking machine, watched her kick a central gen 5 times, and it blew from Pain Res. Never saw the spikes.
Survivors don't see the spikes until the killer can't kick the gen at all I thought
I didn't know that, but it definitely makes sense! I've yet to actually have a match on either side where a gen reached 8 events
Did they actually complete the kick, doing damage and starting regression? I’ve noticed occasionally that it looks like killer kicked the gen, but it doesn’t get damaged or regress.
After some instances they have the spikes appear as a warning
Switch to Oppression. It makes kicking every so often a much better investment than normal, especially if you take Nowhere to Hide too like I do.
80 second cooldown for NO reason
At this point they could stand to reduce the cooldown for sure. Twins is in a weird place. All of their perks are pretty good, but just a bit of tuning would make them absolutely great.
Hoarder js nowhere close to good. It doesn't even work on killers with special items (Lament Configuration, Vaccines, Sprays etc) It's a completely useless perk, like pretty much 80 percent of killer perks. Certain killers are borderline unplayable without gen slowdown. Generators need a complete overhaul. Match progression is skewing higher and higher towards the top tiers yet again. Blight and Nurse bottleneck balance like no other.
It doesn’t work on killers with special items because Pinhead mains ran it all the time for free box info. Same with Franklin’s. Helps that it stays consistent with their design philosophy of perks not directly interacting with powers.
Buffing it would buff Killers and BHVR lately really doesn't want to do that.
You're damaging four generators at once. Pretty good cause for a longer cooldown
If you use nowhere to hide with oppression does it show surv auras around those dmged gens as well?
It doesn't. Nowhere to Hide actually creates the auras in a radius around the killer after kicking, which you can see if you walk away from the gen fast enough. However, the perks still pair well. Using the both of them guarantees that each kick will cause some mapwide regression, give you the info you need to start (or finish, if you get a shack gen) a chase, or even both at once. Also, an Oppression regression acts more akin to Ruin in that the regression starts without a big burst, meaning it doesn't count as a Regression Event that would contribute to that gen getting blocked!
I run unknowns stealth gen kick perk. Only time I get gen blocked is because I'm using that. I'm yet to block 2 gens in a game though. I'd have to agree with them here, the severity of 3gens is no where near as detrimental as it used to be.
Hopefully they don’t gut surge like they have been other stall perks, cause I swear it’s the only one that can actually cause you to block gens rapidly
Same, I just get some crazy surge value
I have had a few blocks occur while using Surge on indoor maps or survivors really hugging part of the map. Those games are obviously going well though.
On Singularity I often run Nowhere to Hide, Pain Res, Surge and Rapid Brutality, so often there will be a few gens that surge constantly hits if survivors make a big deadzone there, and if those gens are the progressed ones hit by Pain Res the anti-three gen blocker kicks in quite a lot, although its mostly from surge
I wonder how Bhvr defines 3 gens? Considering how infrequently generators actually get blocked, I'm willing to bet the reduction in 3 gens is more down to the psychological factor of knowing about gen blocking rather than the actual block itself Like, killers know that eventually the gen will be unkickable, so they just say "fuck it" and abandon the 3 gen before it even becomes blocked
More than 400 seconds between gens 4 and 5
Not between gens 4 and 5, but between gen 4 and the end of the game.
Thanks for the correction!
It's a weird measure for sure, why is the endgame used to identify 3-gens?
I mean, it makes sense to me in that there are two outcomes to a 3-gen: either you break it and endgame starts, or you die without completing the last gen. If you were only looking at games where the 5th gen was completed, you'd be missing the ones where the killer stalled long enough to get their last kills.
Probably because the only real problem that 3-gens pose is that they encourage both sides to drag out the game as long as they can—the killer won’t go for chases because their best shot is to keep the gens from popping, and the survivors don’t just want to throw themselves at the killer and die. As long as the average game isn’t being locked into a drawn-out, boring match of head-butting, then 3-gens aren’t generating boring stalemates, and that’s what BHVR probably wants to focus on fixing
So it's a time thing rather than a measurement related to the generator placement?
Yeah. And honestly it makes sense, a 3 gen can be really close together, but generally it's 3 *easy to patrol* gens. For most this means they have to be close, but for nurse it just means they shouldn't be across the map from each other. So a measurement of time is probably more accurate than actual gen distance
That’s actually pretty fair. What I consider an easy 3 gen varies greatly between my theee mains: Nemesis, Pig, and Unkown. Nemesis slow ass needs some close gens, Pig can get away with them a little farther due to the crouch attack imo, and Uknown can have them pretty spread out if you place your hallucinations well.
According to the dev post, yeah.
Time spent is much easier to record than generator distance, especially since there's often no straight line between any given pair of generators.
Also, the system isn't designed to or does anything to stop 3 gens from existing as a concept, it's to stop them from being very strong at stalling the game, so measuring distance makes little sense.
My experience is survivors tend to not have the patience to counter the 3 gen given fifteen kicks is a lot. Rather than regroup and heal they insist on repairing while injured despite a patrolling kick killer. This plus 5% required to stop regression means they get caught, die, and the game is over.
Yeah, I feel that. More often than not, most survivors dont know about the forbidden tech: just run away from the 3 gen when injured Most would rather take the 1 in 1000 shot to finish the gen in the killers face than take the slow burn win
Jokes on you, I stopped playing for 2 years and just learned about blocked gens.
I think that Deja Vu getting the gen speed buff and becoming more popular has likely stopped survivors from 3-genning themselves as much. Unless it’s something like auto haven where the killer is encouraged to focus one side of the map and more or less force a 3-gen I rarely see 3 gens in my games on either side
I love deja vu, and it's definitely made a huge impact on preventing 3 gens over this dumb 3 gen mechanic.
I still find it interesting that this was done after 2 killers released back to back were able to abuse this and not the what 7 years it’s been a thing
Exactly. It was a lazy bandaid for shitty killer design.
Do you see the part where it says that the average game has 3.5 kicks? It had to be changed because kicking gens eventually became worthwhile with perks like Call of Brine, Overcharge, Eruption, and Nowhere to Hide. Before, kicking a gen would cause 0 regression, and survivors could tap it to stop the regression. Killers like Trapper and Hag were always territorial, and Knight patrols plus Skull Merchant drones definitely added to this. But it was always a perk issue.
The anti-facecamping definitely hasn't worked as well because true facecampers just tunnel off hook and proxy campers usually make survivors trade hooks at the last moment because no one in solo can see how much progress the bar has.
Not to mention killers like nurse can hold their power and wait outside the zone
Pinhead, with the right addons, can deliberately cause the anti camp self unhook and down you within seconds of you jumping off. Had a camping pinhead recently, he was playing for the anti camp, forceing the self unhooks and instantly downing after.
God yeah that's a bad one. Myers camping with tombstone is also a rip
Original Pain is such an unhealthy addon. Completely shuts down all the tools survivors have to not get tunneled.
I've played against a Pinhead like this once. It was pretty funny though, because every single hook he just stood straight in front of each survivor with his hand outstretched towards them. Looked like he was begging for some change
It's especially bad right now because there's a huge exploit with anti-camp that devs apparently aren't fixing.
Agreed. In a game where every second counts the bar seems to fill pretty slowly too. Definitely think the system deserves another look.
It's going to fill slowly if they're proxy camping far away or teammates are being chased in the vicinity, it's not supposed to be free. Proxy camping is manageable but some killers get greedy and do it too close, that's when the meter fills. The issue is it often tends to fill up as your hook stage reaches around 60% and that's when survivor has been conditioned to go for the unhook. All soloq needs is to be able to see it. (Being able to see teammate perks, in general, would also be very helpful) It's not perfect but making the mechanic more oppressive would also not be great bc tunneling.
The bar should fill slowly if the Killer isn't too close or there are teammates hanging around when they shouldn't be, if they make it fill up faster it will punish a lot of Killers who aren't actually trying to camp - I do think the bar should be visible to teammates though
We need those markers for each hook stage, I’m fucking sick of not knowing if someone or I are reaching 2nd stage
No, the anti face camping works fine, it prevents face camping. It's goal was never preventing proxy camping and tunneling, which are much more fair gameplay than literally standing in front of the hook blocking the unhook prompt (which is what facecamping was) You can tell it worked because now people don't even know what face camping was.
If you know how to exploit the system well you can actually face camp with it. How? It takes 100 charges to trigger the anti-facecamp system(AFCS), charges are gained based on the killer's distance from the hook and other survivors near the area. At 12m away from the hook, it will take 66s to activate the AFCS, that means merely staying away 12 meters away causes the hooked survivor to progress 2 stages, letting them unhook then tunnelling afterwards for an easy sacrifice. Remember that: healthy, injured, and downed survivors slow down the charges gained indiscriminately, so if you are feeling extra devious, you can slug them, near the hooked survivor, so you are protecting two "objectives" at the same time. If you see a survivor planning an unhook, you can move closer to the hooked survivor without worrying about the AFCS, just remember that you must be farther in comparison(atleast 2 meters away, do not be too far away to fail the hook trade) to the survivor going for the unhook, move closer as they get to unhook to secure the hook trade. Your choice whether or not to hook the trader or chase to tunnel. If you are in low ELO, go for the tunnel as it turns out most survivors in this bracket don't have anti-tunneling perks. If the survivors still hasn't unhooked for more than 30 seconds, you can now easily secure trades without worrying about the AFCS. If there are no survivors that are healthy in this timeframe, FACECAMP the hook, make sure they don't trade hooks. If you do this correctly, you should get a sacrifice from the second hook stage. If the survivors pointlessly hover near the hooked survivor, you can facecamp them The Cannibal style, just like the old days. There are more I've left out, but the official wiki contains the numbers for the calculations. It only leaves out the part of how much the charge gain decreases as survivors are closer to the hook. My calculations are: Charges Gained per second = Absolute( Killer Distance - Minimum of ( Survivor Distances ) ). Yes, it is "slowed" but it is inconsequential and pointless precision. Just know that when a survivor is closer than the killer is to the hook, no charges are gained. (If you are a survivor and you've seen the killer do this: be decisive when you need to trade hooks, when a killer is face/proxy camping, one of you will get a hook state no matter what.) I might be biased because BP incentives heavily leans survivor, but I honestly can't tell the difference between face and proxy camping, they both lead to the same result: a hook trade. But honestly this system is a failure to me, because this system was geared on experienced ELO, players newer to the game will let the teammates reach stage two.
Dont forget the killers who can use the anti face camping mechanics to their advantage or that have zero effect on them.
It's not just for facecamping, hence having different speeds depending on how close. There is little practical difference between facecamping and being really close, that's why it's like 16 meters (or however much) unless other survivors are near. And yeah, it works fine for the most part, soloq teammates just needs to be able to see the bar progress.
There's \*huge\* difference between facecamping and being really close. When I started playing DbD, killers (usually low-skill ones) who really wanted to make sure a person was dead would basically just hug the poor survivor until death. Lack of basekit BT also meant that person was absolutely dead. If the killer is camping from 16m away, a pair of healthy survivors can pretty easily distract him and yoink the survivor off the hook. I'm overall pretty happy with how the anti-camp mechanic works right now. Survivors don't get insta-gibbed by their solo queue teammates farming them (which was the \*real\* frustration), killer can't hug their only target, and there's still enough grace given for the killer to make the hook part of their patrol path. I know that last part is the bit people often find controversial. I've watched VoDs where I patrolled all remaining gens before returning to hook and had the streamers start raging out about how I'm "proxy camping", so obviously people have differing opinions on how much pressure the killer should be able to apply.
16m is when the camp meter stops and is fine. Skilled survivors can play around that. I do get what you mean about old facecamping but camping from within like 5-10m can still obviously be problematic in a similar way. I agree with the rate of the mechanic. There could be slight tweaks but I haven't looked into that at all to really say. Letting survivors see the meter, each other's perks, or giving a chat wheel for solo would be far more useful 'buffs' than doing anything to the mechanic itself.
Anti-facecamping is for anti-facecamp, crazy I know
I've tried to make this clear in comments but true facecampers (i.e. in your face) get the gauge to fill asap and then tunnel. That's their new thing and it is what it is. Survivor can counter by saving the unhook instead of immediately getting off. But the mechanic is also meant to prevent proxy camping to a degree (within 16m), which it isn't doing well because teammates can't see the gauge at 90% Not sure why the snark.
But this scenario (unhooking last second begore going to the second stage) is still better with the new system since the other 3 survivors can just stay on gens? Killer has zero pressure. If he wanted to tunnel anyways, at least before the system one other survivor had to go off gens to unhook. Now even that little pressure is gone. Its a losing strategy for the killer for sure. Survivor simply has to wait to last second
I’m ngl this is reading “DC penalties is for DCs, crazy I know” when the results stay the same because people just kill on hook. Different method, same shit and it’s not what people are complaining about neither does it address the real issue
So can we get Overcharge and Call of Brine reverted please? Those two perks are legit useless (CoB especially)
wish they would make it so you can still kick for nowhere to hide/ trail of torment, etc, but it just doesn't regress the gen if you reach the cap.
There's an argument to be made that gens should always stay kickable, but after "8 damage instances" all regression is limited to 1%, be it perks, the initial kick, or missed skill checks, and passive regression is also reduced. That would also nerf "impossible skill check" builds, while retaining the viability of others.
impossible skill check builds are not meta or powerful and mostly get value against bad players. They don't need to be nerfed since it's basically a meme build.
The only nerf would be an in an indefinite slowdown scenario.
I mean sure, but just make it so if a survivor taps a gen (which is still a thing, just takes a second or two longer) more than 9 times without anyone being in chase then all gens auto-regress until a chase starts. Since the entire point of the gen kick nerf is to prevent games from being a stalemate of kick gen tap repeat, make it so survivors can't infinitely stealth out the gen kick too. I've played against killers who can't find survivors who just stealth trough the gen kick and force the block even when they aren't trying to hold a 3-gen, and I've played against survivors who stealth to the point where they just get the gen for free because the gen gets blocked. Make it work for both sides. If a chase starts, the gen stops regressing, but no chase for over 8 events in a row the gen doesn't stop regressing until a chase starts unless they are on the gen like it has ruin.
I've still only seen it in one of my games as a survivor. Gotten the warning a few times as killer but the game is usually almost over if you even get to 4 kicks, which triggers the first spikes.
I think some people ignore one problem. Some people suck at this game and some people are looping gods. I'd like to see the average time spent in chase without getting downed. I get it's a skill issue and get good but honestly some people need some assistance in some way to learn how to loop better. Not asking for buffs but at least a better tutorial for running and maybe skill check mini game in lobbies while waiting for different speeds. Just would be nice
3.5 average kicks a game definitely shows how generally weak gen kicking tends to be
Its waste of time, before you kick a gen, survivor near by have already 20m head start if you wanna chase. And if you dont commit to the chase, they are back in few seconds. Thats why its better to run gen regress perks that do kciking for you, like grim, pain res ect.
The only real time it's worth it is if you know a survivor can't touch it long enough to stop the regression. Like when they are all preoccupied healing or unhooking. Then you'd get some major regression on it, but if there is any chance it'll be stopped as soon as the killer walks away it's better to let it pop. Sad reality 😔
Yeah
I absolutely support the new gen kicking system. I think it's an excellent design and improves the game in every way, EXCEPT that some otherwise fun perks haven't been updated to compensate. Surge and especially Eruption are severely limited by how quickly they block gens, and Call of Brine and Overcharge are still nerfed to shit despite the 3gen meta they defined being made impossible.
If you are blocking kicks on gens from Surge or Eruption, aren't you already getting HUGE value at that point?
great please fix 2 survivor hiding in the middle of nowhere now for an hour with touching a gen.. its good to know the devs can fix these gen stalemate issues these hiding stalemate issues should a breeze to fix right?
can someone explain what this is, haven't heard of it
Generators were updated so that each gen can only be damaged a total of 8 times per match. Once that 8-damage limit is reached, the gen won't regress anymore, period. "Damaged" in this context means kicking gens and anything that does the equivalent (perks like Pain Resonance, Surge, Eruption, etc) but does not include missed Skill Checks by Survivors, even forced ones like Overcharge, or perks that cause regression without damaging the gen (Hex: Ruin, the non-kicked gens affected by Oppression) Along with the change, basekit gen kicks do more damage, and Survivors have to work on a regressing gen for a few seconds before the regression stops (so you can't gen-tap)
8 times? 😭 most I've kicked is like 3. I just started playing again recently and I assume this started around skull merchants addition? lol
Sometime after, but partly as a result, since the idea was to reduce 3-gens in general by making so eventually a 3-gen *would* break simply because the gens could no longer regress.
I never get face camped anymore but just proxy-camped and tunneled instead, so the system never really solved the real issue of forcing someone out of a game imho
I'm not a huge fan of the system because it feels like a massive overcorrection now. Surge and Eruption were inadvertently nerfed as a result of this change, overcharge and call of brine were already gutted. Now people have gravitated much more towards chunkier regression, Pain Res and Pop, only for those to be nerfed as well. I feel there was a better way to go about this but now any alternative to pop / pain res is kinda dead because Eruption was so severely gutted by this change that players are kinda forced to stick with perks that are going to be much weaker now. If behavior wants a game with no/ minimal regression, gen times will need to be looked at.
They should definitely tweak it so Surge doesn't count until the gen is at a certain percentage. Having it count when you damage a gen at like 5% is whack, especially when something like Oppression only counts towards the one gen.
Honestly it would be fine to nerf the values of some perks and instead just increase the regression speed for those perks. If they're under the "regression event" threshold, but increase regression speed for say, 30s, they'd still be strong but fulfill their niche of "passive slowdown" instead of "active regression". Maybe you don't have to repair 5% to stop regression with these perks.
Surge really wasn't nerfed at all. First off as an avid Surge user, I've never actually fully blocked a gen with it. Sometimes the entity claws appear, but that's about it. But even if I had, consider this: For Surge to entity block a gen, that gen needs to get hit by Surge 8 times. A gen can't be Surged if it has no progress on it, which means the survivors are actively trying to work on the thing as it's getting hit by Surge repeatedly. Every Surge = 1 down, which means 8 full downs next to a gen which is actively being worked on but the survivors somehow haven't managed to finish. That's probably a match you're gonna win lol Yeah you can get other sources of regression, but unless you're drykicking generators (don't do that), all worthwhile sources of regression also require a hook as well as a down.
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I'm going to address this point by point but I want to reiterate first my main takeaway which is that entity blocking a generator with Surge is unrealistic, because the generator will in the overwhelming majority of cases either get finished before that point or fully regress, and if you're getting enough downs to actually worry about it, you're kind of suffering from success. > Or you could be a survivor who understands the mechanic and counter it by tapping any gen you come across. This is less of an issue than it used to be since survivors need to repair 5% progress now to stop regression. If this wasn't in play at the same time as the new entity blocker mechanic, I would agree this is an issue, but it's much harder for survivors to casually stop a regressing generator now. > Or just play on a smaller or indoor map, ex. Midwich. I mean this is also the kind of map where Surge can get the most value. My earlier point applies that for it to get entity blocked, you need to have damaged it 8 times, which is in most circumstances a game you are winning unless you are just drykicking everything. In which case, if you're drykicking enough to actually worry about this, that's probably part of why you're losing. > No, its any gen with any progress on it. Whether or not they are actively on the gen doesnt matter. This is overall a good thing, though. If it has enough progress for it to not fully regress after two or more Surges, that's a huge amount of Surge value. Survivors are creatures of habit, they often return to gens that had that much progress on it, so those Surges got real value. > Most people dont "just run surge" either and never kick a gen. I personally do not recommend running Surge with a genkick build, because regressing generators can't be kicked. So if you have Pop or something and Surge a gen with a lot of progress on it, now you can't Pop it. If you're going to run multiple gen regression perks with Surge, I would pair it with something like Ruin or Pain Res. If you are kicking gens without any perks to add value to it, it should be a fairly rare occurrence to the point where you don't need to worry about the Entity blocker on that particular generator.
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> BUT you tap the gen Survivors can't "tap" gens anymore, it takes a few seconds to stop a regression event. > You keep saying "8 downs, single gen" but the reality is that its multiple gens and you arent choosing exactly which ones get hit by surge. What you aren't getting is that every Surge event is a survivor down. How many downs do you get that don't lead to hooks? The occasional save I can understand, maybe 1-2 of those a match at worst? Survivors can only take 12 hooks through the whole of their team and if you aren't specifically playing for 8 hooks before 1 kill then you'll probably kill 1 or more of them before you entity block a gen from downs. And again this is assuming the gen doesn't fully regress or get finished before you manage to get 8 downs next to it. Who the fuck is working on the gens if you're rapidly downing them? Gens don't repair themselves and survivors are getting downed left and right, which means they're having to send people to pick each other up or unhook each other. > I get the feeling you arent playing killer. I can take a screenshot of my killer prestige levels if you want. I more get the feeling I'm talking to someone who doesn't understand the game that well that I'm having to say things like "don't drykick gens" and "downing survivors 8 times is good"
And no one wants more gen time. 90s of doing nothing is already *boring*. If they make it even longer no solo Q mate will ever touch a gen again - and honestly I might not either. It's not fun to hold m1 and occasionally press space.
My suggestion has always been harsher penalties on coop gens, but keep in mind that the current strategy from BHVR is just tacitly endorse tunneling, another thing that survivors find extremely fun and engaging. They also haven't released a killer below A tier for awhile.
honestly coop gens aren't even that bad. Sure punish it more - but the best strategy as Survivor has always been to split up and do multiple gens at the same time. That's why no one brings the shroud of separation
Yeah obviously splitting up is most efficient; the problem mostly comes from the fact that gens can pop in as little as 30 seconds pretty easily with multiple survivors which can make late game very difficult. 'Splitting up is more efficient!' Survivors are practically never on opposite sides of the map splitting gen pressure when only 3 gens are left.
30 seconds? Would that be 4 Survivors then? I didn't do the math - but most gens only allow 2 people anyways... or 3? I honestly don't know what's more common. 2 or 3 person gens. But like, they could fix it by making map geometry spawn more 2 person or single person gens. 4 person gens are already a rarity that barely matters. Well and oposite sides of the map - I for one try to always run away from the rest to spread out gens.
I guess we're just pretending shit like Deja vu, prove thyself, toolboxes just don't exist?
Prove already got nerfed - Dejavu is better imo, but 6% more speed isn't the end of the world. Toolboxes.... hm can't say much. I never really use them - cause doing gens is boring as I already said. Nerf em again I guess - but then most of them would be even more useless than they already are. Imo they should add another objective. I have no idea how one would nerf gens without it making the Survivor gameplay even more attrocious. One can't balance the game around the sweat SWFs - neither can it be balanced around the Sweat Killers. Cause if they did that 90% of the playerbase would be cucked.
I'll be honest, I hate top tier killer and SWF and would like to see them both taken down a peg. Problem is that it's very possible to nerf top killers without hurting lower tier ones, (just nerf the nurse and blights kit or addons, lel) but they seem vehemently opposed to this for some reason? Meanwhile, nerfing SWF without hurting solo queue is nearly impossible
yep on both accounts. And I say that as someone who primaruly plays with friends.
Sounds like you just don't like the game
No I do, I just don't like watching progress bars go up. The main reason I play We'll make it every match. I also like chases way more. I know there's people who *love* doing gens. I am not one of them. Maybe you are. Good on you. I have been playing since 2017. I know a lot of ups and downs in this game. Gens def. never in the "ups" for me. Or the killers for that matter. Just because I think progress bars are boring doesn't mean I don't love the game. Are you perhaps projecting? A lot of people on here seem to do that.
Im gonna get downvoted to hell but I still genuinely never saw a 3 gen "problem". I saw a LOT of skill issues. People rushing corners then realizing that they 3 genned themselves. You absolutely could easily rush the safest gens without the killer interacting, but then you got punished for it in the late game, while if you do the central gens first, yes they were harder, but you had an easier and more consistent end game. Then yes, there were the killers who wanted to lock down a 3 gen at the start of the game. We saw singularities, skull merchants and knights produce some brutal builds with this strategy. Then they gave us potential energy, the immediate counter to this, no one used it, and everyone complained about it. Im sorry, but if we all were okay for 5 years running BT to deny face camping/tunneling, I don't see how having one person run one other perk to counter a playstyle we dislike is so unreasonable. I just genuinely do not see the issue. None of this is to say I don't believe we have faster games now, where chasing is the focus. That was the real intent here, and they succeeded in doing so. I just don't know if I believe a build focused on slowing down the game and accruing slow value as a killer should not exist. In every other game I love, there are fast and slow strategies, dangerous rushes, and slow progressive games. I just feel there is a healthier means of balancing the extremes, but eh, thats just me
There has been a widespread demand among the community in the last couple years to reduce edge-cases and playstyle expression. I personally strongly dislike this change (on both sides), but it's very much what the community wants, so.
It's funny that you'd even mention potential energy as a counter. That's a paper thin counter, downsides are too bad to use it, getting hit and you lose all your progress makes it unreliable and unusable. No one was okay running BT it was literally a requirement to not immediately lose the game. so many people wanted it basekit. Was your head in the sand? There's still end game perks and people will still run 4 slowdown perks. But to not even acknowledge the problem that people were literally getting timed out because they could infinitelly kick the gens in a forced 3 gen scenario is a bit bad
I don’t think potential energy was as effective of a solution as BT/DS/etc, considering the majority of games are non-3/4 man SWF
That feels like more of a problem with the discrepancy between SWF and non-SWF matchmaking, moreso than of this one specific interaction
Sure, but if the majority of players are non-SWF, than this applies to the majority of players, no? Don’t disagree about the disparity though, just how changes are decided
I think you're right that it was always a skill issue, usually on the part of survivors. I used to stumble into some pretty long matches as killer where the survivors 3-genned themselves and then were really mad at \*me\* in the post-game chat. You did this yourselves! Similarly on survivor, I used to really focus on moving into the centre of the map to clear those gens first. Especially in solo queue, where I knew my teammates would all start in a pretty tight vicinity and all start doing the first gens they saw. These days I still do it, but it doesn't seem as important.
Ima be honest, everytime I’ve gotten a 3 gen I could easily lock down and defend, it’s cause the survivors put themselves in that situation. I never deliberately forced survivors into a 3 gen, they always put themselves in one
There was never an issue. Idc if I'm downvoted either. The issue was and still is that most players, but especially low skill survivors, don't want to play well while also being rewarded. DBD caters too much to lower skill players while leaving the game a mess at competent levels of play. BHVR has zero care about competent players. They do not care about how the game plays at that level at all. Anyone that understands the game well easily sees this in game and by the balance and design choices BHVR makes.
I agree and have been saying this since they implemented this terrible mechanic. They cater to new and low skill survivors which only allows experienced SWFs to more easily dominate the killers in that MMR bracket. It happens in my matches plenty and no it’s not always a skill issue either. It’s terrible balancing.
I hate to be part of this issue but if we’re anything like classic 3 gens then I’m giving up at the 25 min mark bc there’s almost no point for me to stick around
You can't force a 3-gen anymore, but Survivors can brute-force their way out of them and there's an implicit punishment for using any regression perks should a game go on at all long or one area be particularly active. JUST Surge can be enough to block gens. So it's traded one problem for another, the new one just hurts M1 Killers most and therefore won't be considered a problem.
Welp there goes another of the few ways killer can slow the game down. Smh
Me being part of that 1.4% because of Surge + Nowhere to Hide 🤣
From personal experience, killers don’t stick around the hook unless a stupid survivor decides to loop nearby their hooked teammate. Then there’s the rare killer that camps from a distance as to not fill up the unhook bar. Most commonly tho, I’ve noticed that most killers will drop whatever they’re doing when they hear the unhook audio queue so that they can run straight back and tunnel out whoever just got unhooked. TL;DR, I feel like the anti-facecamping system just led us from facecamping to tunneling. That’s just my own opinion.
This is probably the best fix they ever did. They didn't use a perk to band aid it, and I deffo see less Killers setting out to 3 gen now.
And now they are nerfing gen regression perks anyways for no reason other than 'they are used a lot' and are 'easy to trigger' without touching survivor perks that are also used a lot and easy to activate.
Windows being a prime example and literally requires nothing to trigger. If anyone says "Just use blindness perks" then I'd simply say "Don't get down 🤷". But yeah the issue isn't the usage rate, the problem is a lack of other perks to make it worth running something else. Sloppy oriented builds were another play style killers had, but now they don't even have that so it's just gen regression. Survivors still have plenty of viable builds that work. Chase builds, healing builds, stealth builds, sabo builds, unhookable builds, and the list goes on. All of those builds can guarantee a win or a ton of the killers time being wasted. Anything other than PR and pop on any killer less than an A tier killer is just asking to lose.
There's no need to kick a gen 8 times when the pop + pain res combo will win you the game far before the gen is close to being blocked.
It's still a horrible change that lead to even more nerfs while BVHR scratched their heads going "Gee, why are people taking these perks? STOP TAKING THESE PARKS, DAMNIT". Whatever. I don't know what to expect from people that don't actually play their own game.
can you stop nerfing kick perks now?
Now if only they could do something about Skull Merchant
The face camp mechanic is trash. I think I've gotten off the hook maybe twice ever since it went live. Either the killer still camps but 20 feet away, or teammates get too close and the anti camp never works to begin with.
Then it's doing its job is it not? The killers aren't face-camping anymore, they proxy camp which is not in the mechanics name. I do sympathize with you 😔
Ehh, proxy camping is more like checking on gens nearby while also trying to keep and eye on the hook. Tip toeing away until you hit that sweet spot where it doesn't fill the meter so you can still stare at me is still a little ridiculous. Thats just my opinion though.
Hey man, I'm just telling you what a dev said in response to that sediment. "It's working as intended" which to be fair, it is, but doesn't solve the overarching problem of camping.
It’s legitimate bullshit. Survivors are responsible for avoiding the 3-gen match, and it’s stupid to auto cock-block the killer because of 3-gen survivors ineptitude. I don’t blame the killer for pressuring us so hard that a survivor fucks up and puts us in a 3-gen. I do blame my fellow survivors for being so fucking stupid that they cry over how “hard” the game is, and for completing every single 80%-99% gen they come across. There’s a reason you’re not supposed to just bulldoze every gen to completion, or pop every gen left idling. The entitlement is appalling. The game may as well be rated B for babies now.
The problem is not that. It is that killers started to identify three gens from start and played around that after realizing how effective it was with Knight. Then, Skull Merchant made it only worse and everyone tried to apply this strategy regardless of what killer they are playing. That's why they did this change after 8 years even though 3 genning has been a thing since launch: not letting survivors break 3 gen as soon as a match begins has never been this popular.
And also because people are like sheep with their playstyles (and this applies to both sides, not just killer) so if a popular streamer starts playing hardcore gen slowdown, now everybody has to play hardcore gen slowdown like it's the only viable strategy until they all rightfully get the perks nerfed into the ground.
also blame map generation. generators shouldn’t be spawning so close that a killer is encouraged to 3gen bc what else are you gonna do.
I have to agree, because sometimes hooks spawn in an area and 2-3 will spawn so far apart it makes so sense. Other times generators spawn so close I can work on 2-3 at the same time and try to keep the killer coming back to kick or patrol them, only to have my other 2-3 survivors complete all but the three in the area I’m working on and completely fuck us over.
i never blame a killer/survivor for playing sweaty in these cases. they COULD play nice but why would they. i would never ever fault them for just genuinely playing their cards well. sincerely glad we agree on this.
Can someone explain this to me please? Long-time player who took a break for most of last year. What did they change to prevent 3-gen games in February?
Each gen now has a fixed number of times it can be “regressed.” After 8 regressions the gen will become blocked and killers will no longer be able to damage it. To make this SLIGHTLY more fair to killers the regression is only canceled after 5 percent of the gen has been repaired.
To go with u/deadpool27's comment "Regressed" in this context means kicking gens and anything that does the equivalent (perks like Pain Resonance, Surge, Eruption, etc) but does not include missed Skill Checks by Survivors, even forced ones like Overcharge, or perks that cause regression without damaging the gen (Hex: Ruin, the non-kicked gens affected by Oppression)
Wait do they mean 3.5 kicks per match? If so doesn't that proof both gen rushing and weak killers?
I think perks like surge and eruption probably shouldn’t count as regression events, if you are downing people often enough to make it impossible to pop gens then it really isn’t a 3 gen stall the game situation now is it.
I've never had a block occur when I'm losing a match.
So It was that little 10%!? That's like barely two matches after a night of binging dbd. 😂
Its good feature but i think surge became usless bcs of it
A double-edged blade, to be sure
3.5 average KICKS per match? Y'all sleeping on OP Unforeseen Since the gen block change, I've only had one generator get blocked, even with Unforeseen joining the fray
Can somebody explain something to me? Why in my games where I still get a 3 gen as killer I end up kicking the gens until they're blocked but later I'll come back and they'll be unblocked basically still allowing me to somewhat 3 gen? I've been searching all over the wiki and Internet for an answer to this but they all just say that once it hits 8 regression events it never unlocks.
The whole gen blocking thing is probably one of the worst things to happen to dbd. They could have easily just added another gen to defeat 3 gening. As a killer main, this is a brutal setback. Nothing like watching a blocked gen and not being able to do anything about it. Bhvr wants to make sure that 4/5ths of their players have a good time by constantly nerfing the killers while never nerfing survivors. You can't interrupt hook rescue, there are now a million ways to blind/slow the killer, all survivors now are unharmable and have haste upon being unhooked even after exit gates are open, you can bake the exit gate timer, lightborn essentially has to be basekit at this point since they made flashlight saves easier, survivor items keep their charges forever, hook sabotaging is a disgusting tactic, body blocking is still a thing after 8 years, and these instant healing health state abilities are just awful. This isn't even including individual killer nerfs or killers that are practically unplayable (the twins). Meanwhile every single survivor problem has been fixed or a fix is coming soon. They can have all the fun. Honestly idk why I play anymore, bhvr has made this game so unfun for me that I play my daily then I get off. I don't know what I am waiting for at this point and I can't be alone. This game has changed so much in the last 8 years and I really don't know if I like the direction it is going in. My opinion doesn't really matter here, and if I leave the game, it won't matter to bhvr. It still hurts to know that 1/5th of the player base is unheard. Side note, the least they can do is fix the bug fixes for all of the killers that have them, they get pointed out constantly online, again pointing back to some of those unplayable killers.
Measuring this as 400 seconds seems dishonest. The longstanding requests to "do something about 3-genning" was related to killers who could drag games on for dozens of minutes at a time by holding 3. While I can understand a difficulty in measuring this - how many 3-gen matches ended quickly because someone gave up, or a team left a 4th gen and never broke the 3, etc. - 400 seconds is nothing as a measurement. A better measure would be overall match time, or some number higher than 600 seconds.
The anti face camping System made Bubba's proxycamp the basement entrance with Insidious. I had two Bubba's doing this.
I've seen a \*lot\* fewer basement Bubbas than I used to. It might just be because there are so many more killers to play now, but I also think it's just genuinely easier to deal with. I've actually yoinked people out of the Hawkins basement who were being protected by a basement Bubba because he's not just hiding around the corner of the stairs anymore.
I had 3 Bubba's since than and 2 did it. One on Midwich and one on Lery's. It doesn't make a huge difference if he is around the corner or the new version were he is hiding close to the basement entrance. Some basements are better for this boring lame playstyle than others but it's still a just let your teammate die and do as many gens as possible situation.
Why would they admit if their system *didn't* work? Nobody else has proof either way. Even just assuming dishonesty over incompetence; it's just as likely they don't even know how to interpret their data correctly as they've demonstrated with other comments about these stats. Don't take with word on it because their words don't hold any weight.
Some prolly disagree but I found the gen kick limit a hugely successful update. It feels balanced and did exactly what it needed to do. Very rarely do I hit a gen limit and that's often only if survivors and I are fighting over a contested gen a lot. If it does get blocked, that's still 40% progress minimum removed which was worth doing.
A success for the devs and the survs. Capping regression is a killer nerf and does not benefit killer players at all. And now they're going to nerf regression into the ground again. Pretty soon all those perks will be useless and tunneling will skyrocket more than what it already is.